Gilad Pellaeon is Causing Some Controversy
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Tales of the Empire included Pellaeon, but some people are upset about this and I disagree with their reasoning.
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My takeaway from the video: Pellaeon isn’t subscribed to Corey’s channel so he’s not aware of what the lore is supposed to be so he just shows up whenever, messing up the timeline and forcing half the Star Wars fanbase into a mental breakdown
Pellaeon is just cool like that, he doesn't have to adhere to the lore, he can just show up as he pleases.
...Would love to see a planeswalking iteration of Pellaeon working for a Multiversal defense organization, particularly one based on his Yuuzhan Vong War veteran self, but without the Denning-verse crap that happened.
Here's the thing: why is anyone surprised? Filoni has been breaking continuity through animation since either TCW or Rebels (depending on how much day to day influence Lucas had on TCW)...
I'm more angry about the lack of Vanto in any of this.
Ahh yes mr Eli'Van'To 😜
Me too. I want Vanto to show up again. He is a great character.
Oh, same. Even I think he should become canon in Legends too, alongside most of the Thrawn 2017 novel.
Same
@@gastonarce We aren’t talking about the heir to the empire series we’re talking about the canon Thrawn comics he made which takes place in this time period.
I've always like how in legends Pellaeon was given the chance to like and subscribe, but now in canon he instead had the opportunity to finally like and subscribe.
it really shows how the new canon is building upon these characters and fleshing out their RUclips activity and online presence.
Savit stealing Pallaeon from Thrawn only for Thrawn to steal him back would be a fun subplot...
Pallaeon is clearly being setup to fulfill his legends role, which is awesome. What concerns me is how little Zahn is involved with Thrawn's story at this point. He's a masterful plotter, he could've easily incorporated material from these episodes into his books.
Disney already fumbled Thrawn with the sequels AND Ashoka.
The more crazy part is that Pealleon hasn’t been promoted at all.
@@playerlive4081 Pellaeon being a captain forever is almost baked into the character. In the EU, it's mentioned a couple times that he's been a capitol ship captain since the clone wars, which were at the time at least 30 years before the original trilogy, and then he keeps on in that role basically until the Imperial Remnant goes "look, you're the ONLY one competent left."
@@westrim Competent enough to keep the commission, though too much of a playboy in his early years to be considered flag officer material by the old guard top brass of the Republic, Empire, and early imperial remnants.
Hey, he made the cut for Death squadron in Legands; and made it all the way to Endor with both his ship, AND his neck mostly in top enough condition to keep going.
He couldve incorporated material written after his books into his books? Lol
It's clearly a retcon since Thrawn is actually Pellaeon's superior here, as in he's actually working specifically under him rather than for Savit.
Moreover, it also is a soft retcon to the TIE Defender project as a whole. It was stated before that Thrawn proposed the design to Sienar using a Kaminoan saberdart as an example for the spaceframe, but here it looks like Morgan proposed it all on her own. Maybe I missed something, but I have no idea how the local governor of some small planet the Empire hadn't even surveyed for resources was supposed to get a hold of advanced TIE designs and then rework that into an even more advanced design she could propose to the Imperial brass.
The night sisters practiced math facts with Elsbeth on flash cards and taught her algebra before she was 5 and then taught her advanced calculus and aerospace engineering when she was a little older.
Where is that stated
Where is it stated that THRAWN based it off the Kamino saberdart
@@flamsey In the book "TIE Fighter Owners' Workshop Manual"
@@flamsey In the EU Thrawn wasn't involved with the Defender project, it was Grand Admiral Zaarin, so no.
Star wars really needs to have multiple canons at this point, we can have the filoniverse, the EU and the disney era comics and books, that way everyone wins.
Which wouldn't even be hard to pull off. Reprints of EU stories have been labeled with the "Legends" banner for years now. They can do the same for Canon stories in media outside of the films and shows with their own banner to distinguish them. The EU in particular would benefit greatly from it since many stories were left unresolved due to the reboot. If DC and Marvel can publish stories in multiple alternate universes simultaneously without losing their readers, Star Wars has no excuse to not do the same.
@@CouncilCape897 well thats the catch... nobody actually reads comic books anymore. only the most popular ones even break 10,000 copies sold. (meaning batman, superman, spiderman and basically nobody else ever) deadpool became popular because of memes, never had a single comic break 4 digits, most only sold around 1,500 copies. the vast majority of the comics industry is in TV and film now. the comics themselves have less impact on the stories now than ever.
It would cause Disney absolutely no harm to continue Legends continuity in some form. The fact that they've had the ability to do that but haven't released a single comic, book, or video game (other than continued limping support for SWTOR) for the past ten years really seems to show active spite for the original Star Wars fandom while continuing to sew resentment between fans of the old and new canons.
It almost seems like they're doing it specifically to piss people off to benefit from conflict, in the same way that social media companies like Facebook deliberately skew their algorithms to keep their users angry since anger drives engagement.
@@EvanMe its one part malicious disregard because the creators for disney dont even care about their own lore, let alone something they had no part in. and one part deliberate sabotage for something they perceive as archaic, as everything before our "modern enlightened era" did not adhere to the "message"
@@EvanMeis this really what you people think? This really is the most paranoid, self-martyring, toxic fan base in existence.
Really liked the video !
And yes I would really like a video about Mr Moustache, "The man who spent his life searching for the right person to deserve to be Emperor who never knew he was the one he seeked
the problem people have, and this is not only for this particular instance but most issues with disney cannon as a whole, is the motivation and reason for the change. with most of the old EU the primary motivation for most changes was either because it would make the story better or more interesting, or they just didnt know and it was ultimately an oversight that they would find a way to explain later. the motivations for the changes were positive ones. disney on the other hand, every change is either deliberate malicious harm to a franchise they find silly, to "subvert expectations" or at best they just plain dont care about lore and "their" story and writing is so "obviously superior" they can just write whatever they want.
put simply, a change like that in the old EU would still have its grumblers, but would be accepted because overall the reason for the change came from a good positive place. but with disney the changes come from an antagonistic or outright malicious place, and thus are liked only by those who dont care about lore. the dislike from lore concerned fans is greater because of the intent.
that being said, star wars has fewer fans than ever in its history, 99% of people who actually care about the lore of the story have jumped ship for their own sanity. disney doesnt care, so its put up with constant lore breaks that shatter everything, or just stop consuming star wars media. the only people who are still on board with star wars at this point, just dont care that much about lore, and are just there for the overall spectacle nothing more. with maybe 1% of the lore carerers being desperate hold outs wishing they could still love star wars as much as they used to, and grasping at straws to downplay or explain as many issues as they can in some vain attempt to justify their stubbornly staying a "fan" of star wars as it is now.
though being fair, filoni has always played fast and loose with lore, and personally with his content it at least has some spirit there where most disney is a souless husk. even before disney i was upset with filoni for killing master piel early sorta retconing the start of the Coruscant knights series. but clones exist so its easy to explain away, and that era had good faith generally so i could move past no problem. however now the lore breaks are bloody everywhere, and they are massive... i still cant get past the kamikaze ship in 8, that annihilates any reason for space battle or space ships at all end of story. why build a moon sized battle station to blow up a planet when a fighter with a droid could blow up a planet just the same? why use big space crusiers in big space battles, when hyperspace rail gunning a chunk of metal on a hyperdrive the size of a person could rip those all to pieces no problem? would turn literally every conflict into extreme dodgeball and moral debates over blowing up the planet with a hyperdrive rock. all space conflict would be rendered meaningless. this in turn renders all disney cannon meaningless. until they formally declare that epsisode 8 didnt happen, then the structure of lore and everything in disney cannon simply cant exist and makes zero sense. it is meaningless. so try as i might this weekend at bernies corpse they are parading around as starwars is nothing more than that, a corpse of an old friend debased and mistreated.
Disney Cannon: it is whatever the mouse wants, even if they are basically borrowing fan favorite characters or retconning anything deemed inconvenient, even if the post-Disney timeline was supposed to maintain continuity.
A bit of an odd question, but could you please look at some examples of a political collapse leading to a warlord era in the real world and how it would compare to the fall of the Empire?
What bothered me most was Thrawn having three star destroyers as an admiral. He only had a task force at the time, and only got the 7th fleet and more Star destroyers than just the Chimera when he was promoted to Grand Admiral, immediately before going to Lothal.
I think it actually fits in line with the books in away. Reading Treason it Thrawn and Pellaeon seem to of had a mutual understanding before the events of the book. So i am guessing there is at least one or two times they worked together.
When ot comes to the Tie Defender. I think wjen Thrawn unveiled the item, he tried to contract it out tonsee whay factories would want to take on the challenge of making.
Legends and Canon both have a large amount of stuff that either outright contradicts each other or somewhat does. Its just something fans have to accept but we should still advocate for better communication between the different mediums of story telling.
When i saw the episode i firste thought it was a contradiction, but then i read the part in treason and then it is only wired that Pellaeon is in savits fleet. I guss there will come som matrial that explaines that thrawn put Pellaeon in savits fleet.
Yes I would like to see more about Pellaeon
I’m still wondering how Pellaeon survived the space whales considering he was in Mando season 3
He probably got hyperspaced somewhere different
The canon was broken years ago, why does this matter?
Perhaps not breaking canon, but bending it. When I read Treason I absolutely interpreted it as their first time meeting. I guess it wasn’t directly said, but that is what it suggests. I definitely agree though that Choices of One much more directly contradicts Heir to the Empire. I was confused when I read that. Coherent timelines has never been a strength of Star Wars. This is at least a very minor discrepancy. I still thought that the Morgan arc of tales of the empire was quite disappointing.
If I like it, it's canon to me.
simple as.
t. big starkiller
This, up to and including good fanfics.
Dave Filoni can do whatever the heck he wants. If I got the job writing Star Wars, I wouldn't want to be slavishly constrained by every novel and comic book either. Lucas always said the movies and TV shows were "more canon" than the books and comics anyway. Clone Wars '03 had Anakin become a knight at the beginning of the war, the rest of the EU decided that Anakin was knighted toward the end of the war. Filoni's Clone Wars had Anakin get knighted early again because they wanted to tell stories where he has a Padawan, and the show was better for it. "Canon" and continuity should be subservient to story, not the other way around. Obviously there should be editorial oversight to keep things mostly consistent, but you shouldn't have to let Wookieepedia dictate what you can and can't do.
It's not like they retconned Obi-Wan and Anakin's first meeting to be a chance encounter at the urinals during halftime at a Knicks game. They're talking about Great General Prawn and Gargamel Pepperoni.
Literally just people looking for more excuses to hate on Dave. That’s it.
its just his new cannon now
Its not that bad to look at!
Maybe Kathleen Kennedy overseeing and making sure evrything fit together in a consistent canon wasn't as bad a thing as people thought (That's what she did right?)... now it seems Disney has given more power to Filoni to the point where he can mess with the canon and create inconsistencies which wouldn't have been allowed to happen a few years ago when DIsney was doubling down on the idea of the one canon. I don't think.
to be clear, I like most of Filoni's work, and I didn't like how Kathleen let the sequels be produced with basically no plan. So I'm not trying to point fingers or put anyone on a pedestol.
All I'm saying is for all the hate Disney gets they are the ones who actually cared about canon being consistent. I love George and Filoni as star wars story tellers but let's not pretend either of them care about a consistent canon.
So it's funny to me seeing people who hate Disney for taking over star wars, but now hate Filoni when Disney is has finally stopped micro managing him as much and are letting him write more inconsistent stories because WE'VE BEEN ASKING FOR THEM TO TRUST HIM.
Can't really have your cake an eat it too I guess.
It seems to be our options are passionate but inconsistent stories, or micro managed and souless canon stories. Maybe a middle ground will be found sooner or later.
It's certainly interesting to see.
(Edit: I commented this before watching the video. lol Thanks for pointing out to people that this isn't as much a retcon as people think, rather just a slightly different interpretation that still kinda fits with and builds upon pre existing interpretations and understandings.)
Feloni’s been breaking canon from day 1, both EU and Disney. The man is a hack.
To be fair, In this case it was Filoni that first reintroduce Pellaeon to new canon, after TZ had made the first new tharwn book and then he added pelleaon
so i thnik TZ is happy for the whay Pellaeon is used.
But i agred fx with tales of jedi and ashoka book
@@knutlindenhoff697 Eh, there’s a reason Zahn’s the only one of the old writers still around. The rest hated the retcons, especially Traviss, but then again she has her own problems.
@@BlackIce3190And not just problems in Star Wars either. Even Halo suffered because of her.
Surprisingly, though, heard she did better on Gears of War.
@@michaelandreipalon359 She wrote for Halo? But I was referring more to her weird hate-boner for the Jedi.
@@BlackIce3190 Yeah, the infamous Kilo-Five trilogy, primarily. So many inconsistencies with the lore, and a huge hate against Halsey. Even the Halo wikis seem to treat the books as ONI propaganda, far as I know.
Disnep "canon" is not canon.
canon doesn't really matter anymore anyway. not sure who the few are that care, most left a while ago.
Honestly, the books and comics shouldn't be considered part of THE CANON. I think what is shown on screen trumps everything else anyway. That is just my take though.
That’s a slippery slope, books can bring in a lot of good stories replaced with mediocre or bad ones
@@bcmm1880 oh definitely! Many of the books are great, but my point is simply that we have to assume that if the stories are told in film or series changes will be made and we just have to live with it.
@@001skm well according to Rebels, the show, the dialogue heavy implies if not outright claims that Thrawn made the Defenders, not Morgan, though I haven’t seen Rebels in a while, but that’s a problem with Dave, he seems to not care about continuity
Not the best take on this.
snowflakessssssss they need to chill
I hate filoni. He’s become a total hack who has to shove lame ahsoka into everything
Real world explanation- Using Vanto would have alienated casual viewers whereas Paelleon is more well known and will likely have a big role in Filoni’s live action work
Three words, casuals: "Live with it!"
Basically Pellaeon was an undercover agent within Savit's fleet that was working for Thrawn in secret.
Dave Filoni ignoring the source material? But that is unheard of! :O
Bro Corey made this video to disregard that
@@trevoranthony3018 I didn't watch the video. Regardless, Dave Filoni is infamous (and rightly so) for constantly ignoring his source material, creating more inconsistencies and retcons in a shorter timespan than any other Star Wars creator in history. At least before the dark times, before Disney...
I mean in Thrawn Treason Palleon is only under Savit's fleet at the time that doesn't mean that he had never met Thrawn before in fact throughout the book he is actively working against Savit for Thrawn.
@@swehumorofficial If you didn't watch the video why the fuck are you commenting on it
I was wondering about how those timelines worked out with Thrawn and Pellaeon in canon. On one hand it’s always awesome to see Pellaeon if only because his appearances represent a nod to long time fans. On the other hand it would have been cool and I think more appropriate to see Commodore Faro in that role. Either way, it was a fun mini series
I don’t mind Pellaeon I just would have preferred one of the new cannon characters to appear as it would have been a even more fun cameo for fans. Like image if it was Vanto or Faro
Yeah Disney IS weird with its weird Signals they hate the EU but Bring Up constantly camaos to somehow get EU Fans Back instead of focusing ON their own Disney fanbase and even though i hate Disney Star wars vanto IS one of the few Characters from Disney that are generally good
Personally, I think not Pellaeon made the largest controversy, but Elsbeth did. I would love to see a video that clarifies things around her as the lore for me got really confusing around the Tie Defender as of 2024
I usually take it as one competent officer helping out another competent officer. Pellaeon knew that yes it was going to be expensive and Thrawn needed a ship to combat some rebels. Also most military officers in lower rank tend to transfer from different fleets or army groups.
Highly possible that this was a first where Pellaeon was under thrawns command. By the time of Treason he was under someone else’s command before his superior was arrested and moved back to Thrawns command. As for Eli Vanto not being here I guess he was on board one of the three star destroyers that Thrawn brought to Corvus. That’s how I perceived it
What bothers me way more, is that apperently suddenly the nightwitch came up with the TIE Defender. From Rebels and the new books I understood it as Thrawn coming up with them. Isn´t that a way bigger retcon?
Question: Are Projectmanagers a non-existantant job title in Star Wars?
...Does this mean we're gonna get a Belkan magical girl squadron of TIE Defenders someday? That actually sounds metal, even if it's for a Multiversal saga and not a true Star Wars story.
why is he always portratyed as old? pellaenon was at most middle aged when thrawn came back, and pellaenon should naturally look younger when thrawn was young
I agree. The bigger question is what happened to Pellaeon after the Battle of Lothal. Like, Thrawn had no way to contact him outside of Nightsister’s Magic so how did Pellaeon know he was about to come back? Or was he just BS-ing the ruling council in Mando Season 3?
I never understood why they don't just makes books comics and games part of their own canon in line with the novelizations of the movie and just have the TV shows and movies be their own thing? This is the weird thing with SW where its multimedia continuity is bound to contradict itself at some point even with a story group. Its why I am thankful the MCU and the comics are their own separate things. I just find canon levels kinda a contradictory term in and of itself.
This is precisely why I never understood the decision to discontinue the Expanded Universe. If:
1) Film directors and showrunners won't bother to research on and respect authors' contributions in other oficially licensed media because they're too creatively bankrupt to work around the parameters of an established universe
2) The casual majority of the fandom only cares about mainstream media anyway
Then WTF was the point of discontinuing the EU and promising that this new canon would be more coherent and cohesive than it ever was? If the novels and comics don't matter to them, why not just revive the EU and let it be its own separate thing from the mainstream media in Canon? That way, authors can finally finish their unresolved plot threads and keep telling new stories that will actually matter without risking being overwritten by the films and shows. As someone who finds most of the Disney Canon content mediocre at best, this would be the ideal solution for me.
@@CouncilCape897I agree. I really find it funny if their answer was that it would be confusing, because there are plenty of franchises where they have alternate universe versions of the same universe, hell legends had Infinities, so I tend to agree as to why they couldn't just let it be its own thing.
Multiverse Theory is a b***h, but even she has her benevolent sides, so to speak.
No Eli Vanto is more worth criticizing for me. Even then, they better keep him comic book adaptation look, as an aside.
In the meantime, I am bit interested on how the badly nerfed TIE Defender of this universe is co-developed by a magical girl in all but name.
Filoni cares about Death Troopers lore
Filoni cares about Ahsoka Novel
Filoni cares about Caleb Dume order 66 comics
Filoni cares about Ventress novel
Filoni cares about Canon Thrawn books
- -
The Ventress novel still happened though. That wasn't contradicted.
@@jackhummer8344 it's relevance being nullified - you can practically burn this book in your trash can, nothing would change for your canon
Gilad Pellaeon, one of my many favorite Imperial officers.
It should have been my boy Eli ahhh
The amount of retcons canon Star Wars have been going through lately is giving me a huge migraine.
I've said it before, I'll say it again - when it comes to modern Star Wars, the books, comics, and video games are only cannon until they get in the way of a TV show or movie. We can spend hours and hours trying to handwave it, or just accept that there are levels of cannon and save ourselves a bunch of mental stress.
Didn’t Rebels say Thrawn made the TIE Defenders? And that’s a aspect from the show
"when it comes to modern Star Wars"
It was even the case under Lucas.
So what's the point of buying any comics and books then?
@bcmm1880 star wars fans really struggle with any sort of ambiguity in a text. Though it's been a while since I've watched rebels, I don't think Thrawn was ever credited as the designer for the Defender in Rebels. It was his project, and he championed it for funding over other projects, but I don't think he ever says that he designed it himself. And if he had... well people can lie y'all lmao
@@anonymous-hz2un Simple, if the story's good, then that’s reason enough.
Let's just hope this is not another Reckon..
I'm so uninvested in the disney trash lol. I think I'll just stick with the EU.
I don’t care, I get to see my boy pelleon
And what about Rukh?
We’ll figure that out
My interpretation of the whole thing comes down to I think to some extent Dave is not feeling like he has to be constricted by the books and comics so they can be less tied to everything. He has done this in the past with the old Legends books and will continue to do it. I get Disney made a big deal about "its all canon" but I think I would view that very relaxed canon.
That said I also think fans spend a lot of time looking for reasons to be mad some times.
what's worse is the specs for the TIE Defender is up on screen in the background. Thrawn had nothing to do with that project. It was Admiral Zaarin that ran the TIE Defender project. Thrawn only took it over once Zaarin was dispatched....permanently...
One detail I noticed on Captain Pellaeon rank, he wearing the incorrect rank plague of a Captain, the rank plague we see him wearing was a army line Captain beside him being a Navy Line Captain which has 3 blue squares and 2 reds squares, not 3 reds and 1 blue squares, I just want anyone to know this detail you may have miss.
Some people confuse tensions with contradictions. Or retcons with contradictions. Tensions are things which seem to conflict in the story, but in all reality when you think logically about it there is no real contradiction. Retcons are when someone makes an inference about something (We do not see Thrawn interact with Pellaeon before Thrawn Treason, so that must be the only time they knew each other) and then that inference is destroyed when something else happens, like Pellaeon being in the show. It contradicts the initial inference the fans made, but technically since that inference was never stated as fact it cannot contradict any actual established lore. That's the difficult thing about writing. If you do a retcon, it can very easily upset the fanbase as they either take their inference as canon, or they liked their inference better than what you came up with. It is a losing battle. Here we have mostly a retcon or a tension depending on how you look at it. Retcons are usually stronger inferences that the writer intentionally or unintentionally wrote in the story. Tensions are use inferences but not to such a strong extent that it is a universal interpretation or understanding.
In summary though, this is not a contradiction. This is not like the contradiction where in the Rise of Skywalker they say to fire ion canons but then it is just normal canons being fired. That is a real contradiction.
Of course by the time of 'Heir to the Empire'. They had already become a channel member and supporter on Patreon
What I want to know is are the six books even "cannon" anymore? Because at this point I feel that everything in Disney cannon is cannon until something shows up on the big screen to contradict it.
It's very simple: all of that happened in something not made by Dave Filoni. So it doesn't count!
What i am curious about, is the actor who played Palleon here is the actor who voiced him in Rebels or portrayed him in The Mandolorian
You think Disney cares about canon?
first baby lets go
On the one hand, I am annoyed that Filoni once again ignores Canon when it doesn’t match up with his plans. I was foolishly hoping that Timothy Zahn’s work would at least be spared/Filoni would take more efforts to not tread on Zahn’s toes.
That said, I’ll never say no to more Pellaeon content. And all things considered the short did him well in a number of ways like showing his politeness to Morgan, his overall competence (asking a sincere question about the Defenders’ design) and how this is the closest we’ve come to seeing him, Rukh and Thrawn together on screen.
As for him and Thrawn, I think having him serve under Thrawn here/for a few years before Thrawn’s disappearance does add a bit more credence to his passionate defense of Thrawn in Mandalorian Season 3 as opposed to being transferred to the 7th Fleet about a week before Rebels’ series finale.
So yeah, I’m annoyed at Filoni once again disregarding other Canon work, but this was a retcon I can see some value in
Well again, there's nothing that actually contradicts anything here.
👍
I only want the pellaeon video if u name it the adventures of mr moustache
People need to start realizing that the non-tv/movie stuff is not really canon. I dont like it either but its the truth.
I think we should accept Filoni doesn't care what's established canon and says, "nah, Imma do my own thing".
This was Always the Case since TCW that Shit trashed the whole EU Clone wars and IS responsible for the Most inconsistencies in the Clone Wars EU era
Everything Disney comes up with breaks canon.
God, Thrawn being beaten by Space whales... Rebels is so moronic. Most of what Filloni has done has been negative
Yeah, I still remember that show's mistreatment of the X-Wings in Season 4. What happened to that Empire of the Sun P-51 Mustang love letter sequence, Dave?!?