Hard to find people doing pushrod length measurements on FE engines. I just put a 390 together using a new set of non adjustable rockers and wound up having to order two lengths of pushrods. Checked every one and wound up with two lengths to get the preload within spec for all 16 lifters. With the cam I have, zero decked block, slight valve stem height variance. milled heads and whatever else that varies I got 9.450" and 9.475" with preload factor added in. Had to have them custom made.
A 460 push rod is usually 8.550. A FE pushrod, ball end ball end, is 9.590 usually. Almost a inch longer. Using a adjustable pushrod checker for a 460 should not be "too long".
I've got similar rockers mocked up on my 390 fe. When measureing with my pushrod checker, im a bit concerned by the "negative angle" between the pushrod and the rocker adjustment screw. It seems like the rocker travel would have a lot of lateral stress on that adjustment ball,especially at the start of the lobes. I'm thinking about using a tester valve spring, and shimming the rocker pedestals to try and get to a straight line with my pushrod/adjustment screw at 50% lift. I think that doing this with just 1-2 threads showing on my adjustment screw would minimize forces while leaving me enough for a fine adjustment. Id have to add the lifter preload into my pushrod. Did you have any concerns with this building fe engines, or am i just overthinking this?
Thanks for watching Great question. Sounds like the push rod length is off a bit. With the valve closed is the adjuster higher or lower than the valve retainer?
Where did you get the adjustable rockers? I see these assemblies on JEGS, but they have terrible reviews. They say that the nuts are breaking and they come loose as well. Any advice?
They are factory original 390 interceptor/406/427 solid lifter rocker arms. I have seen to issue with the newer reproduction arms lock nuts coming loose. Federal mogul was still making a good quality replacement up through the mid-late 90’s if you can find some NOS pieces somewhere.
This Ford rocker shaft assy with the shaft ends unsupported are JUNK in my opinion. Especially if you have stronger than stock valve springs. The shaft will break the end off after the end support bolt. It will happen. Good luck in covid world finding someone with some good ones. Just get in line like the rest of us.
Where do you set the adjusting bolt on the rocker before before expanding the adjustable pushrod? Seems like a couple turns either way will make a difference in measurement. Thanks for making great video's, have been a big help with my 428 build.
Thanks for watching and glad I could help. Typically I leave the adjuster bolt 3-4 threads below the rocker arm. That puts it basically in the middle of its travel. Then: I try to set the push rod checker in the middle (or close as possible) of its travel.
Thanks for watching! The Edelbrock ones are typically available from anyone the sells Edelbrock products. The Edelbrock bolts are all the same length, the factory style set up uses a slightly longer bolt on the Oiler hole. With the cast iron heads I’ve always used the stock bolts. Blue Thunder used to offer them and I believe Pioneer did as well. PS This is a great question I’ll have to do research.
Why do you add pre- lead in the length when it seems you can set it more accurately with the adjuster on the rocker arm? This would also allow for variance between valve stem heights. In the middle of figuring out what length my FE needs with a roller cam and roller rocker system.
Jeremy Aguilar Good morning, Hydraulic lifters require “pre-load” to allow clearance for the plunger to move up and down, inside the lifter body. The adjustable rockers are there for exactly the reason you stated above, it gives an adjustment point to dial in the accuracy. IE: we can adjust out the “ticking” if the push rod length is off a bit.
@@FabRaceModRepeatyes, but if you order pushrods at the static length and you have the adjusters out 3-4 threads then you should in essence be able to add preload like you would a small block Chevy through the adjuster.
@@bnmartell Again thanks for watching. Due to the variation in the stock adjustable arms and the various after market ones over the years; I add in the preload to the rod length. I found a few rockers over the years that didn’t have 4-6 threads still engaged with the arm without the preload built in.
If you have stronger than stock valve springs, you better get some aftermarket adjustable rocker shaft assemblies that have supported shaft ends. The very end of the shaft MUST BE SURROUNDED. You will keep breaking shafts and bending pushrods and other bad things will happen. I've been seeing this happen since the 70s.
That’s kind of the idea on this low lift set up. The geometry is basically built-in as it was at the factory. There’s also a lot of margin in the rocker tip on the stock rockers I’ll go into more detail on it when we install the push rods. which will be soon, they recently came in.
Hard to find people doing pushrod length measurements on FE engines. I just put a 390 together using a new set of non adjustable rockers and wound up having to order two lengths of pushrods. Checked every one and wound up with two lengths to get the preload within spec for all 16 lifters. With the cam I have, zero decked block, slight valve stem height variance. milled heads and whatever else that varies I got 9.450" and 9.475" with preload factor added in. Had to have them custom made.
This one of those “FE problems” you hear people speak of. This is also why I always use adjustable arms if possible.
A 460 push rod is usually 8.550. A FE pushrod, ball end ball end, is 9.590 usually. Almost a inch longer. Using a adjustable pushrod checker for a 460 should not be "too long".
Thanks for watching.
It would if it’s for big Pro stock setup.
I've got similar rockers mocked up on my 390 fe. When measureing with my pushrod checker, im a bit concerned by the "negative angle" between the pushrod and the rocker adjustment screw. It seems like the rocker travel would have a lot of lateral stress on that adjustment ball,especially at the start of the lobes.
I'm thinking about using a tester valve spring, and shimming the rocker pedestals to try and get to a straight line with my pushrod/adjustment screw at 50% lift. I think that doing this with just 1-2 threads showing on my adjustment screw would minimize forces while leaving me enough for a fine adjustment. Id have to add the lifter preload into my pushrod.
Did you have any concerns with this building fe engines, or am i just overthinking this?
Thanks for watching
Great question.
Sounds like the push rod length is off a bit.
With the valve closed is the adjuster higher or lower than the valve retainer?
Where did you get the adjustable rockers? I see these assemblies on JEGS, but they have terrible reviews. They say that the nuts are breaking and they come loose as well. Any advice?
They are factory original 390 interceptor/406/427 solid lifter rocker arms.
I have seen to issue with the newer reproduction arms lock nuts coming loose.
Federal mogul was still making a good quality replacement up through the mid-late 90’s if you can find some NOS pieces somewhere.
@@FabRaceModRepeat Ok thanks for letting me know that. Much appreciated.
WOULD THESE ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS WORK WELL WITH A ROLLER CAM AND LIFTER SET UP TO SAVE ON COST
They will as long as the spring pressure isn’t to high. If you’re running a big solid roller I’d get some Harland sharp rockers.
This Ford rocker shaft assy with the shaft ends unsupported are JUNK in my opinion. Especially if you have stronger than stock valve springs. The shaft will break the end off after the end support bolt. It will happen. Good luck in covid world finding someone with some good ones. Just get in line like the rest of us.
Where do you set the adjusting bolt on the rocker before before expanding the adjustable pushrod? Seems like a couple turns either way will make a difference in measurement.
Thanks for making great video's, have been a big help with my 428 build.
Thanks for watching and glad I could help.
Typically I leave the adjuster bolt 3-4 threads below the rocker arm. That puts it basically in the middle of its travel.
Then:
I try to set the push rod checker in the middle (or close as possible) of its travel.
@@FabRaceModRepeat Perfect, thanks for prompt reply and keep 'em coming.
You said you have to deduct the cup size but in your math you added it to your overall length
Wow!
Thanks for catching that.
I said it correctly and wrote it wrong. I’ll have to fix that
where can i get the bolt to tie the rail rockers
Thanks for watching!
The Edelbrock ones are typically available from anyone the sells Edelbrock products. The Edelbrock bolts are all the same length, the factory style set up uses a slightly longer bolt on the Oiler hole. With the cast iron heads I’ve always used the stock bolts. Blue Thunder used to offer them and I believe Pioneer did as well.
PS
This is a great question I’ll have to do research.
@@FabRaceModRepeatthe oiler bolts are not longer. They taper down for oil to pass from the head to the rocker shaft
@@bnmartell
Thanks for watching.
On the early engines, the 2 tapered rocker oiler bolts are a few threads longer than the other bolts.
what cam did you go with?
Comp extreme energy I believe.
Can’t remember the number off top my head.
#33-238-4
Why do you add pre- lead in the length when it seems you can set it more accurately with the adjuster on the rocker arm? This would also allow for variance between valve stem heights. In the middle of figuring out what length my FE needs with a roller cam and roller rocker system.
Jeremy Aguilar
Good morning,
Hydraulic lifters require “pre-load” to allow clearance for the plunger to move up and down, inside the lifter body.
The adjustable rockers are there for exactly the reason you stated above, it gives an adjustment point to dial in the accuracy. IE: we can adjust out the “ticking” if the push rod length is off a bit.
@@FabRaceModRepeatyes, but if you order pushrods at the static length and you have the adjusters out 3-4 threads then you should in essence be able to add preload like you would a small block Chevy through the adjuster.
@@bnmartell
Again thanks for watching.
Due to the variation in the stock adjustable arms and the various after market ones over the years; I add in the preload to the rod length. I found a few rockers over the years that didn’t have 4-6 threads still engaged with the arm without the preload built in.
My 390FE does not have adjustable rockers. Why is that?
Most hydraulic ones didn’t from the factory as they were not needed.
If you have stronger than stock valve springs, you better get some aftermarket adjustable rocker shaft assemblies that have supported shaft ends. The very end of the shaft MUST BE SURROUNDED. You will keep breaking shafts and bending pushrods and other bad things will happen. I've been seeing this happen since the 70s.
This is at TDC correct?
Yes, set the valve lash at TDC.
So... you do nothing with rocker arm/ pushrod / valve geometry?
That’s kind of the idea on this low lift set up. The geometry is basically built-in as it was at the factory. There’s also a lot of margin in the rocker tip on the stock rockers
I’ll go into more detail on it when we install the push rods. which will be soon, they recently came in.