What we have found with the flatwork we used to do is that initially to the first hour, water makes a difference, but towards the end of finishing time the starting slump doesn't effect it nearly as much. I think that test is effected alot by how much water/humidity is in the material and the plant before it even hits the truck.
Completely agree. Once it’s arrived to site and has already began doing its thing, water and chemical only goes so far. No coincidence that it’s most always the same handful of drivers whom bring us hot/difficult loads of concrete.
Fully 100% agree. I have the pleasure of running a pump and finishing concrete, or not a pleasure 😁. In my area, even with our smallest 28 meter pump, the mud absolutely comes out a little bit more dry, or at least less creamy. It actually seems to help with finishing in my perspective though, and I believe the reason it helps is because it squeezes out some of the entrained air. Our mixes have to have air added if there is testing, otherwise the air will come out a few points low. The pump drying out mud becomes especially noticeable at low slumps for us, particularly when we are trying to pump something like a 3" slump for doing hand formed curb. It can go into my hopper at a 3 or 3.5 and come out looking a lot like a 2". I think it is more dramatic because the pump has to work so hard to push the dry mud, also increasing the pressure on the mud. I've also noticed when pumping really hard on dry mud, that some of my swivel gaskets (that otherwise are brand new and not leaking) will seep a little water out of them. So it's definitely squeezing water out when it's pushing really hard.
friction=temperature rise and the water is being forced into the materials under pressure, so lower slump. but the water will somewhat be released back while not under pressure
Solid point you mention. Once it’s in the ground and hit with the vibrator and/or hand tools, it does seem to “come back to life” a good bit. We find this to be especially true with mixes which use a tougher grade of sand.
I was tought and something i usually keep in mind when telling drivers a slump vs what the placers have asked for is for every 100ish ft of hose you can lose up to half an inch of slump from the friction.
Same here. What I have found more recently with our suppliers shifting towards a more coarse grade of sand, is that this theory of slump loss through the line is more prevalent than ever before.
Used to pump for a guy who would always make me pump the part load no matter if he could back the truck straight up to the pour because it would go off quicker being pumped
I always put a 3 inch ball in the end of the first hose to stop the grout running ahead. Dan's mix was good but I think Pumping out the material cylinders and out through the reducers and 90 would have also dried out the first bit of concrete before it hit the flexi hoses. Should have pumped out a small bit before connecting onto the 2.5 inch hose.
We’ve never had great results with putting the ball ahead of the primer. I really need to shoot of video of us attempting to do it as such that we can potentially be guided in the right direction (I’m still convinced that it has everything to do with the type/amount of sand/aggregate used in our material here). I think a couple of strategically placed plastic bags at the coupling points could have helped out dramatically here. I was surprised to see that Dann’s grout had not dried out hardly at all (my prediction was it to turn to a ball of sand at around the hundred foot mark). The failure point here appears to have been those couple handfuls of rocks which found their way ahead of the grout primer in the lines. Either way, Dann was wrong, just not so much in the manner which I had predicted (it is however my civil duty to give him a hard time) 😂😂😂
I still feel as though we need ore conclusive evidence here. From what we had seen here today, it most definitely changes the slump, the way that the concrete places, and seemingly the initial set. We kinda looped the bed by leaving those samples out in the sun for 4 hours before getting the finishers opinion them though.
@@canadianconcretepumper1979 it even changes air % also I believe the number 1 factor for concrete setup other than Cemical reaction is UV rays Take mud in a dark place check it after ever 30mins Now take mud in UV rays from just a work light it’ll set faster Blows my mind
As a concrete finisher I have a little bit of an argument discrepancy I'll just say it that way not an argument just a discrepancy see you guys all up there are doing this that's cool I like the way you guys are doing this but at the end of the day when it comes to the way the mud gets put delivered to the hopper and then it comes out the end of the hose yeah there's a difference but it's also in the way that the concrete plant makes the mix design to and how hot the mud is when you gets delivered to the job site to be pumped through the pump and then when it gets discharged out of the house so depending on the size of the job is going to make a difference too
Absolutely! As I’d mentioned to another commenter, it’s no coincidence that the same handful of drivers consistent bring us hot/difficult loads. If the mud has already been set to “bake” there’s only so much we can do with it once it reaches the job site.
I started putting a bit of portland into my bentonite, maybe 3 cups of bentonite and half a scoop of portland. It makes it way thicker, especially if I dont have the time for the primer to set up a bit overnight or if im heading to a second job and i failed to recapture the primer. Ill do a thick chunky bucket in the reducer and roll a soupy bucket back from the tip. Ive had some good success with that.
Put something under you hose next time to keep prime from draining downhill. Also you should try this with slick line and see how much the slump changes. Rubber hoses just seem to suck moisture out concrete
Couple of plastic bags at the joints here and there would have likely been a big help on this one…. or if Dann had just listened to me and used both buckets of primer 😂😂😂
@canadianconcretepumper1979 I've learned my lesson (just remember that you also like to be the one right on camera, so if I just agree with you you will miss out on that joy)😅
So I use a product called Super Primer. You get two primes per bottle and I use about a gallon and a half of water on a 300ft push. Anything under 300ft I use about a gallon maybe less. I add a dab of water to the hose to keep it moist and the primer wraps around the concrete like a barrier to keep from segregating and she slides right on through pushing the water out first. Everyone does it differently so I do what works best for me.. as long as it works for you that’s all that matters lol
On line pumps. We always pump a bit into a bucket through the reducer stack. Then grout the lines. I like 25lbs of powder to about a half pail of water. Pancake batter ish consistency.1 bucket per 100ft of hose.
I typically like to throw a bit in the reducer as well. Back on the day we had short 4” pipe with a grout port fabricated into it. I feel as though we need to revisit this. The challenge we have with using a custom built grout port these days is that everything from the back of the pump is required to be “pressure rated”.
Please tell the gentleman at around the 28 mark to be careful with his hands, and use gloves when handling concrete. We do care about our concrete guys, right? :)
Tell these guys literally a thousand times (safety glasses as well for the vibrator guy). It’s a constant battle. The one which gets me the most is working under the boom without a hard-hat on.
They are a really cool piece. I gave mine away to my brother thinking Cancrete had shipped me two of them…. only to discover that one of them was for Dann. I now have no clock. 😂
What we have found with the flatwork we used to do is that initially to the first hour, water makes a difference, but towards the end of finishing time the starting slump doesn't effect it nearly as much. I think that test is effected alot by how much water/humidity is in the material and the plant before it even hits the truck.
Completely agree. Once it’s arrived to site and has already began doing its thing, water and chemical only goes so far. No coincidence that it’s most always the same handful of drivers whom bring us hot/difficult loads of concrete.
Fully 100% agree. I have the pleasure of running a pump and finishing concrete, or not a pleasure 😁. In my area, even with our smallest 28 meter pump, the mud absolutely comes out a little bit more dry, or at least less creamy. It actually seems to help with finishing in my perspective though, and I believe the reason it helps is because it squeezes out some of the entrained air. Our mixes have to have air added if there is testing, otherwise the air will come out a few points low.
The pump drying out mud becomes especially noticeable at low slumps for us, particularly when we are trying to pump something like a 3" slump for doing hand formed curb. It can go into my hopper at a 3 or 3.5 and come out looking a lot like a 2". I think it is more dramatic because the pump has to work so hard to push the dry mud, also increasing the pressure on the mud. I've also noticed when pumping really hard on dry mud, that some of my swivel gaskets (that otherwise are brand new and not leaking) will seep a little water out of them. So it's definitely squeezing water out when it's pushing really hard.
friction=temperature rise and the water is being forced into the materials under pressure, so lower slump. but the water will somewhat be released back while not under pressure
Solid point you mention. Once it’s in the ground and hit with the vibrator and/or hand tools, it does seem to “come back to life” a good bit. We find this to be especially true with mixes which use a tougher grade of sand.
I was tought and something i usually keep in mind when telling drivers a slump vs what the placers have asked for is for every 100ish ft of hose you can lose up to half an inch of slump from the friction.
Same here. What I have found more recently with our suppliers shifting towards a more coarse grade of sand, is that this theory of slump loss through the line is more prevalent than ever before.
@@canadianconcretepumper1979 course sand sucks. I stalked out a boom truck tring to push a 4" 32mpa with course sand through the dang boom...
Used to pump for a guy who would always make me pump the part load no matter if he could back the truck straight up to the pour because it would go off quicker being pumped
I've had to do that. It's forced me to learn some things the stressful way
I always put a 3 inch ball in the end of the first hose to stop the grout running ahead. Dan's mix was good but I think Pumping out the material cylinders and out through the reducers and 90 would have also dried out the first bit of concrete before it hit the flexi hoses. Should have pumped out a small bit before connecting onto the 2.5 inch hose.
that or the butt plug thing
We’ve never had great results with putting the ball ahead of the primer. I really need to shoot of video of us attempting to do it as such that we can potentially be guided in the right direction (I’m still convinced that it has everything to do with the type/amount of sand/aggregate used in our material here). I think a couple of strategically placed plastic bags at the coupling points could have helped out dramatically here.
I was surprised to see that Dann’s grout had not dried out hardly at all (my prediction was it to turn to a ball of sand at around the hundred foot mark). The failure point here appears to have been those couple handfuls of rocks which found their way ahead of the grout primer in the lines.
Either way, Dann was wrong, just not so much in the manner which I had predicted (it is however my civil duty to give him a hard time) 😂😂😂
I think you might be right. I did a 200+ line with taking a bucket out of the taper 1st and it went through no problem.
I agree with Dan @14:35. I’ve noticed it plugs easier if the primer is dumped in the hose vs the S-tube.
prime in the elbow every time. bonus points if you neutralize the cylinders in reverse first first
Friction for sure makes mud set off faster just like when they try to speed up drums to get it to pop off faster
I still feel as though we need ore conclusive evidence here. From what we had seen here today, it most definitely changes the slump, the way that the concrete places, and seemingly the initial set. We kinda looped the bed by leaving those samples out in the sun for 4 hours before getting the finishers opinion them though.
@@canadianconcretepumper1979 it even changes air % also I believe the number 1 factor for concrete setup other than Cemical reaction is UV rays
Take mud in a dark place check it after ever 30mins
Now take mud in UV rays from just a work light it’ll set faster
Blows my mind
As a concrete finisher I have a little bit of an argument discrepancy I'll just say it that way not an argument just a discrepancy see you guys all up there are doing this that's cool I like the way you guys are doing this but at the end of the day when it comes to the way the mud gets put delivered to the hopper and then it comes out the end of the hose yeah there's a difference but it's also in the way that the concrete plant makes the mix design to and how hot the mud is when you gets delivered to the job site to be pumped through the pump and then when it gets discharged out of the house so depending on the size of the job is going to make a difference too
Absolutely! As I’d mentioned to another commenter, it’s no coincidence that the same handful of drivers consistent bring us hot/difficult loads. If the mud has already been set to “bake” there’s only so much we can do with it once it reaches the job site.
We need clear hose for these experiments 😊
@@MuddyfeetTV this needs to be our little science project for when I come down to visit you in Texas this October 😁😁😁
I started putting a bit of portland into my bentonite, maybe 3 cups of bentonite and half a scoop of portland. It makes it way thicker, especially if I dont have the time for the primer to set up a bit overnight or if im heading to a second job and i failed to recapture the primer. Ill do a thick chunky bucket in the reducer and roll a soupy bucket back from the tip. Ive had some good success with that.
Put something under you hose next time to keep prime from draining downhill. Also you should try this with slick line and see how much the slump changes. Rubber hoses just seem to suck moisture out concrete
Couple of plastic bags at the joints here and there would have likely been a big help on this one…. or if Dann had just listened to me and used both buckets of primer 😂😂😂
(I expect Dann to be chiming in very shortly on this one)….. Dann, where are you??? 😂
@canadianconcretepumper1979 I've learned my lesson (just remember that you also like to be the one right on camera, so if I just agree with you you will miss out on that joy)😅
@@canadianconcretepumper1979sitting in an airport watching RUclips 😅😂
@@dannpriebe livestream in an hour. Shoot me a message if you’re at any time able to join us.
You guys priming has me thinking Anchorman. “60 percent of the time, this works every time!”
60% may actually be generous 😂😂😂
So I use a product called Super Primer. You get two primes per bottle and I use about a gallon and a half of water on a 300ft push. Anything under 300ft I use about a gallon maybe less. I add a dab of water to the hose to keep it moist and the primer wraps around the concrete like a barrier to keep from segregating and she slides right on through pushing the water out first. Everyone does it differently so I do what works best for me.. as long as it works for you that’s all that matters lol
Is this the product? superprimer.com
I’m wanting to give it a try.
step bro never gets stuck. well.. just mud in the line.. but other than that.
I really wanted to pull him out with the Ridgeline (or at least attempt to) 😂😂😂
I use a Milwaukee drill with a mixer attachment @5:10. Works great
On line pumps. We always pump a bit into a bucket through the reducer stack. Then grout the lines. I like 25lbs of powder to about a half pail of water. Pancake batter ish consistency.1 bucket per 100ft of hose.
I typically like to throw a bit in the reducer as well. Back on the day we had short 4” pipe with a grout port fabricated into it. I feel as though we need to revisit this. The challenge we have with using a custom built grout port these days is that everything from the back of the pump is required to be “pressure rated”.
Please tell the gentleman at around the 28 mark to be careful with his hands, and use gloves when handling concrete. We do care about our concrete guys, right? :)
Tell these guys literally a thousand times (safety glasses as well for the vibrator guy). It’s a constant battle. The one which gets me the most is working under the boom without a hard-hat on.
I won one of those clock through their instagram
They are a really cool piece. I gave mine away to my brother thinking Cancrete had shipped me two of them…. only to discover that one of them was for Dann. I now have no clock. 😂
Dan's is beauty
Dann is numero uno, indeed!