@@dancingdan1994 did jesus prove himself to others by quoting from their scriptures or perform healings and miracle's .he was crucified despite it all and the supposed rock of peter he denied him 3 times.
@@frederickanderson1860 well that is a facile argument. It is only said he soposidly did all that again from a single book and there is no other evidence
An existence that is devoid of intelligence, supreme immaterial truth, that orders how beings are ought to be with themselves and with one another cannot ever find the order of beings, in contrast to what we witness first hand in every fabric of the very universe and existence we are in; that is it cannot exist and doesn't have any need or purpose whatsoever to exist. But we do have structures, orders, the so-called "intelligibility", and of course purpose. If things have no purpose to exist, that there is no such a thing as purpose, then there is no consequence of anything. For example, if I can take out the sun from the solar system, everything could just operate normally as if the sun were still there if the sun has no purpose of existence; hence there is a purpose in existence, therefore there is a supreme intelligence that gives rise to the order of beings.
you know, priests and apologists tend to have an explanation for everything. isn't that pretty suspicious? you may remember that Galileo Galilei was almost executed by the Catholic Church's Inquisition for defying the current geocentric model of our solar system, with the heliocentric model. the Church defended their belief with biblical interpretations, but at the end, the Church had to apologize (a few centuries too late) for that. remember when God stopped the Sun and Moon, so that the Israelites could have a few more hours of light and win? well, if the Sun was moving around the Earth, that could be possible. but back then, they did not know that was not the case.
this channel really helped me out during my philosophical studies in the seminary especially on our subject Seminar on St. Thomas Aquinas. Thanks a lot!
do you know the objections to st. Thomas' First Way? if God was pure Act, according to Aristotles there is needed Potency residing somewhere that can be "moved", and Potency must exist in a physical being. if in the beginning there was only God, no Potency existed and no "movement" (transformation) was possible.
Can someone point me out in which text Thomas Aquinas argued something to the effect of “the Church flourishing despite Jesus warning his disciples that whosoever followed him would suffer persecution is a miracle in and of itself and a proof that Jesus is God”. I remember reading something like this, but I don’t remember where.
> According to the biblical scholar, F. F. Bruce, the great medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas was summoned by the Pope (probably Pope Urban IV). As he entered the Pope’s chambers, Thomas found him counting a large sum of money. “Look, Thomas. No longer can the church say, ‘Silver and gold I do not have.’ “True, Holy Father,” said Thomas. “And neither can she say, ‘Rise and walk in the name of Jesus Christ.’”
Suffering is the reality of the world. Life is suffering But Jesus gives purpose to suffering and death thats its not the end of all but the starting to a perfect next life.
The problem with this argument is that it doesn't make the case for the Christian God but for some kind of vague deity. Islam and Judaism could make the same argument for their own worldview. I would even argue that this is somewhat incompatible with Christianity because this argument would let you to believe that creation in its current state is the way God intended it, but in reality what happened was that the entirety of creation changed to a sort of corrupt state after the fall of Adam and Eve. This argument would have to imply that things such a disease, evil, death, etc are all part of God's intention, when in reality those things are not created but are the result of human sin, and you could never reason that from looking at the world around you, it needs to be revealed, because no one on earth alive today was there to see creation before the fall.
Natural theology is not intended to prove Christianity exclusively in the first place. Indeed, Muslims & Jews were the first to use Aristotle in their natural theology before Christians. It isn't a problem if an algebra video doesn't make the case for the roundness of the earth, it's different fields of math. Additionally, a sense of the brokenness of the world (or at least man) is probably achievable through natural reason. I heard it so argued even if I can't remember where. The Platonic idea of man as an imprisoned spirit, all virtue ethics' premise that man is the only creature who becomes evil in following his instincts, & disobedience as a recurring theme in the Greek creation myths all come to mind.
Thats only true in one possibility, in a occasionalist God, those things might have order for 2 reasons: 1 they developed within the rules of order that God made, which means God did not permit it to go overboard and become a illogical and unordered corruption, but a more contained one 2 since with our sin we elected satan as the prince of the world those things are of his desing, for our corruption made us Choose him, thats why God does not destroy him, because he wants us to be redeemed by choosing him in life, and we could only have done it fully after Christ because of his unlimited atonement on the cross we can persevere. I hope this helps for more context of where did i get the prince of the world from its in the bible i think ephisians 6 verse 12
If the world's order is evidence for God, is disorder evidence against God? If not, it seems as though you have an unfalsifiable assertion. What if I said both the order and disorder of the world is evidence for magic?
Order is evidence of a organizer, hence disorder is evidence of a disorganizer, when it come to the bible, we can have 2 disorganizers, 1 ourselves by original sin 2 Satan who is reffered as the Prince of the world by Paul, So in short because Satan has autority and we gave him autority over this world, in his battle against God he corrupted the world, because we so not only willed it but elected him by obeying him over God, hence God by respecting our choices, allowed us to see the fruits of our consequences, so he permited this, not Willed the disorder, we must also say God does not permit absolute Power to the Devil, hence why we still have order in this majority, now we have a explanation to why God seems to be willing our salvation throught Jesus, and what he does is cooperate with us, because he doesnt seem fit to simply destroy and start again, he could but he does not want to create beings without free will, *so through grace we can overcome sin (watch this channel talking about grace)
why is it all so coordinated? science can shed some light on this: because matter currently has certain physical properties (unlike just after the Big Bang, where everything was so hot no atoms could form), and those properties include atraction to form bunches of atoms, and include which molecules are easiest to form and destroy under specific circumstances. not always has the universe been like this, and planets and stars and life is the result of the most probable and durable configurations of atoms, while the unstable and improbable configurations are rarely seen. life is a complete mistery, or was, until scientist detected organic molecules embedded in meteorites. those molecules are the same ones that conform DNA and RNA, and it is a pretty exciting discovery. they didn't found DNA in those extraterrestrial rocks, but the building blocks for any genetic code. I think philosophy gave many wrong answers, trying to explain the world, but nobody knew which argument was right and which was wrong until science and observation and experimentation revealed many before unseen things. and the tendency continues.
Science doesn't do anything but kick the can down the road. "Life came here from another planet," then how did that life come about from another planet probably less hospitable than this one? Can we prove life from non-life, or only a handful of amino acids under perfect conditions? "The universe is ordered because of atoms." This begs the question, because atoms are incredibly and improbably ordered already! If any of the constants of the universe were off by a billionth of a percent, there would be no atoms.
Perhaps you should watch these nice videos from Aquinas 101: "Does Science explain everything?" and "The Scientific Method, its Benefits and Limitations" and "Is Nature Inherently Random?" and much more.
@@loremipsum2989 it is a known fact science cannot currently explain everything. but "explaining" is not enough: proving the explanation is trustworthy,u is important. anybody can explain earthquakes as a giant snake moving under the ground. but science can explain them as well as prove the explanation is accurate. what can theistic religions do to prove the truthfulness of their core claims? not much, because at one point or another they rely on dogma. if we take out each and every dogma Christianity has, it will become incoherent and unsustainable. at the end, Christianity falls into circular reasoning when believers state the Bible is the Word of God, and we know that because John Doe and Peter Doe say so, and how do we know they said so? the Bible says they said so.
@@loremipsum2989or perhaps you should tell me if you consider st. Thomas was right in his Five Ways, and we'll find together which mistakes he made. the first mistake has to do with causal finitism. if causal finitism is true (to arrive at today's state of affairs, it is impossible to have an infinite past) then eternal life is impossible, because the first day in eternal life will be followed by an infinite future, infinitely many days or events, as you want to call them. given that there is an infinite separation between day 1 of eternal life and the current day of eternal life, logic dictates that eternal, infinite life is impossible because day 1 cannot be ever reached if trace back the days (they're infinite, remember).
@@PInk77W1 Not so much taught as imposed by the Church, Aquinas was a fraud, who wanted god to exist so he just made up reasons for it. An honest person thinks the other way around. Today he would never get a job a a university or survive peer review
If you are really looking for the truth and looking for more arguments watch the video Scientific evidence of God from the youtube channel called vaticancatholic
@@bitofwizdomb7266You’re being fallacious in asserting that the God of the Bible and Zeus are the same. God, as taught in the Bible, is the Supreme, eternal Being who put everything into motion and upholds the universe. Zeus was born, Zeus had parents, Zeus was not all powerful, etc. etc. It’d be easier to say that Zeus was just a superpowered human. It’s just plain wrong to assert that they are the same. This all goes without asking how you know that the God of the Bible is made up?
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
For in Him we live and move and have our being. Acts 17:28.
Thank you, Father Brent.
Our Lady, Seat of Wisdom, pray for us.
What does this mean? It kind of makes me think like we are cells in his body or we are puppets in his play.
Apostle Paul was quoting from a Greek poet.
So basically if you just quote the bible to prove God and use no other book there fore you cannot he wrong
@@dancingdan1994 did jesus prove himself to others by quoting from their scriptures or perform healings and miracle's .he was crucified despite it all and the supposed rock of peter he denied him 3 times.
@@frederickanderson1860 well that is a facile argument. It is only said he soposidly did all that again from a single book and there is no other evidence
An existence that is devoid of intelligence, supreme immaterial truth, that orders how beings are ought to be with themselves and with one another cannot ever find the order of beings, in contrast to what we witness first hand in every fabric of the very universe and existence we are in; that is it cannot exist and doesn't have any need or purpose whatsoever to exist. But we do have structures, orders, the so-called "intelligibility", and of course purpose. If things have no purpose to exist, that there is no such a thing as purpose, then there is no consequence of anything. For example, if I can take out the sun from the solar system, everything could just operate normally as if the sun were still there if the sun has no purpose of existence; hence there is a purpose in existence, therefore there is a supreme intelligence that gives rise to the order of beings.
This was the one that brought me out of apostasy.
you know, priests and apologists tend to have an explanation for everything. isn't that pretty suspicious? you may remember that Galileo Galilei was almost executed by the Catholic Church's Inquisition for defying the current geocentric model of our solar system, with the heliocentric model. the Church defended their belief with biblical interpretations, but at the end, the Church had to apologize (a few centuries too late) for that. remember when God stopped the Sun and Moon, so that the Israelites could have a few more hours of light and win? well, if the Sun was moving around the Earth, that could be possible. but back then, they did not know that was not the case.
1:04 cats go "meow" 🐈⬛
2:44 fire burns... water quenches 🔥🌊
this channel really helped me out during my philosophical studies in the seminary especially on our subject Seminar on St. Thomas Aquinas. Thanks a lot!
do you know the objections to st. Thomas' First Way? if God was pure Act, according to Aristotles there is needed Potency residing somewhere that can be "moved", and Potency must exist in a physical being. if in the beginning there was only God, no Potency existed and no "movement" (transformation) was possible.
❤ thank you
Brilliant as always
Can someone point me out in which text Thomas Aquinas argued something to the effect of “the Church flourishing despite Jesus warning his disciples that whosoever followed him would suffer persecution is a miracle in and of itself and a proof that Jesus is God”. I remember reading something like this, but I don’t remember where.
> According to the biblical scholar, F. F. Bruce, the great medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas was summoned by the Pope (probably Pope Urban IV). As he entered the Pope’s chambers, Thomas found him counting a large sum of money. “Look, Thomas. No longer can the church say, ‘Silver and gold I do not have.’ “True, Holy Father,” said Thomas. “And neither can she say, ‘Rise and walk in the name of Jesus Christ.’”
lol btw there's a company that calls themselves "Aquinas Wealth Advisors LLC"😅
@@progidy7Pope innocent ll
@@Obedience33 Pope Not So Innocent
@@progidy7
St Francis to the rich young man
“Return to your vomit.”
I am human believe in our GOD..gives knowledge with good life
Boise, Idaho here
Here from Missouri
Coleman TX
God bless
Fr. Brent, come to Mississippi State University!
Why we need to be hurt...
GOD represent jesus to save us all from our poor understanding..
We need GOD.
Suffering is the reality of the world. Life is suffering But Jesus gives purpose to suffering and death thats its not the end of all but the starting to a perfect next life.
The problem with this argument is that it doesn't make the case for the Christian God but for some kind of vague deity. Islam and Judaism could make the same argument for their own worldview.
I would even argue that this is somewhat incompatible with Christianity because this argument would let you to believe that creation in its current state is the way God intended it, but in reality what happened was that the entirety of creation changed to a sort of corrupt state after the fall of Adam and Eve.
This argument would have to imply that things such a disease, evil, death, etc are all part of God's intention, when in reality those things are not created but are the result of human sin, and you could never reason that from looking at the world around you, it needs to be revealed, because no one on earth alive today was there to see creation before the fall.
Natural theology is not intended to prove Christianity exclusively in the first place. Indeed, Muslims & Jews were the first to use Aristotle in their natural theology before Christians. It isn't a problem if an algebra video doesn't make the case for the roundness of the earth, it's different fields of math.
Additionally, a sense of the brokenness of the world (or at least man) is probably achievable through natural reason. I heard it so argued even if I can't remember where. The Platonic idea of man as an imprisoned spirit, all virtue ethics' premise that man is the only creature who becomes evil in following his instincts, & disobedience as a recurring theme in the Greek creation myths all come to mind.
Not necessarily
The Lord can write straight with crooked lines Even though the world is broken, He can (and has) used it to do His will.
Thats only true in one possibility, in a occasionalist God, those things might have order for 2 reasons:
1 they developed within the rules of order that God made, which means God did not permit it to go overboard and become a illogical and unordered corruption, but a more contained one
2 since with our sin we elected satan as the prince of the world those things are of his desing, for our corruption made us Choose him, thats why God does not destroy him, because he wants us to be redeemed by choosing him in life, and we could only have done it fully after Christ because of his unlimited atonement on the cross we can persevere.
I hope this helps for more context of where did i get the prince of the world from its in the bible i think ephisians 6 verse 12
Why we should ask if there is god? Rather than
GOD IS OUR CREATOR..
Comment for traction
If the world's order is evidence for God, is disorder evidence against God? If not, it seems as though you have an unfalsifiable assertion. What if I said both the order and disorder of the world is evidence for magic?
Order is evidence of a organizer, hence disorder is evidence of a disorganizer, when it come to the bible, we can have 2 disorganizers, 1 ourselves by original sin
2 Satan who is reffered as the Prince of the world by Paul,
So in short because Satan has autority and we gave him autority over this world, in his battle against God he corrupted the world, because we so not only willed it but elected him by obeying him over God, hence God by respecting our choices, allowed us to see the fruits of our consequences, so he permited this, not Willed the disorder, we must also say God does not permit absolute Power to the Devil, hence why we still have order in this majority, now we have a explanation to why God seems to be willing our salvation throught Jesus, and what he does is cooperate with us, because he doesnt seem fit to simply destroy and start again, he could but he does not want to create beings without free will, *so through grace we can overcome sin (watch this channel talking about grace)
Yes disorder is evidence against God Original Plan.
And sometimes disorder or opposite activities can be an order of the World sometimes we just dont know.
@@juliusrendon5936 If you cannot give an example of order and disorder from a non God foundation of reality, how does order evidence God?
The universe is ordered
So there must b a God.
???!!! The Universe is trying to kill us on a daily basis, and in a few billion years will succeed ….. so what are you talking about !!??
why is it all so coordinated? science can shed some light on this: because matter currently has certain physical properties (unlike just after the Big Bang, where everything was so hot no atoms could form), and those properties include atraction to form bunches of atoms, and include which molecules are easiest to form and destroy under specific circumstances.
not always has the universe been like this, and planets and stars and life is the result of the most probable and durable configurations of atoms, while the unstable and improbable configurations are rarely seen.
life is a complete mistery, or was, until scientist detected organic molecules embedded in meteorites. those molecules are the same ones that conform DNA and RNA, and it is a pretty exciting discovery. they didn't found DNA in those extraterrestrial rocks, but the building blocks for any genetic code.
I think philosophy gave many wrong answers, trying to explain the world, but nobody knew which argument was right and which was wrong until science and observation and experimentation revealed many before unseen things. and the tendency continues.
Science doesn't do anything but kick the can down the road. "Life came here from another planet," then how did that life come about from another planet probably less hospitable than this one? Can we prove life from non-life, or only a handful of amino acids under perfect conditions?
"The universe is ordered because of atoms." This begs the question, because atoms are incredibly and improbably ordered already! If any of the constants of the universe were off by a billionth of a percent, there would be no atoms.
Perhaps you should watch these nice videos from Aquinas 101: "Does Science explain everything?" and "The Scientific Method, its Benefits and Limitations" and "Is Nature Inherently Random?" and much more.
@@loremipsum2989 it is a known fact science cannot currently explain everything. but "explaining" is not enough: proving the explanation is trustworthy,u is important. anybody can explain earthquakes as a giant snake moving under the ground. but science can explain them as well as prove the explanation is accurate.
what can theistic religions do to prove the truthfulness of their core claims? not much, because at one point or another they rely on dogma. if we take out each and every dogma Christianity has, it will become incoherent and unsustainable.
at the end, Christianity falls into circular reasoning when believers state the Bible is the Word of God, and we know that because John Doe and Peter Doe say so, and how do we know they said so? the Bible says they said so.
@@loremipsum2989or perhaps you should tell me if you consider st. Thomas was right in his Five Ways, and we'll find together which mistakes he made. the first mistake has to do with causal finitism. if causal finitism is true (to arrive at today's state of affairs, it is impossible to have an infinite past) then eternal life is impossible, because the first day in eternal life will be followed by an infinite future, infinitely many days or events, as you want to call them. given that there is an infinite separation between day 1 of eternal life and the current day of eternal life, logic dictates that eternal, infinite life is impossible because day 1 cannot be ever reached if trace back the days (they're infinite, remember).
@@ALEX-KYLE-g9Perhaps you should first consider the difference between eternity and infinity. The five ways of St. Thomas are true, of course.
Sensu constans
Are typhoons earthquakes famines virus' epidemic all disorder.
No they are ordered.
“Everything is Good.”
St Thomas
@@PInk77W1 good not perfect.if it was so we be worshipping the creation not the creator.
Is the universe and the world all disorder? No, and that's what the video is about
@@Sofia-hp2fu we cannot imagine the unimaginable forces of nature to produce the universe
@@frederickanderson1860 Faith.
I guess Aquinas didn't have much information to go on, and so it's understandable he came up with such ludicrous arguments.
So ludicrous he is taught In almost every university in the world
@@PInk77W1 So is Jr Tolkien
@@lucianopavarotti2843
For 800yrs ?
@@PInk77W1 Not so much taught as imposed by the Church, Aquinas was a fraud, who wanted god to exist so he just made up reasons for it. An honest person thinks the other way around. Today he would never get a job a a university or survive peer review
If you are really looking for the truth and looking for more arguments watch the video Scientific evidence of God from the youtube channel called vaticancatholic
That’s great and all , but it’s not yaweh
YHWH is the Creator of the universe
@CapInshallah thank you
Aaand what gives you the credentials to make this statement?
@@rschiwal a degree in common sense . Make the distinction btwn the concept of God and man made ones like yaweh and zeus for example
@@bitofwizdomb7266You’re being fallacious in asserting that the God of the Bible and Zeus are the same.
God, as taught in the Bible, is the Supreme, eternal Being who put everything into motion and upholds the universe.
Zeus was born, Zeus had parents, Zeus was not all powerful, etc. etc. It’d be easier to say that Zeus was just a superpowered human.
It’s just plain wrong to assert that they are the same.
This all goes without asking how you know that the God of the Bible is made up?