Leaf rapidgate summer test
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- Опубликовано: 26 сен 2024
- I did a new test with Nissan Leaf to see how it would deal with summer temperatures and fast charging. This time I drove slower to prevent heat buildup.
The result is that it's possible to drive 400-500 km in one day without too much hassle. But if you want to stretch it past 600 km, it will be a bit cumbersome.
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I have my 2018 Leaf for almost a year by now, but honestly - I have never ever checked the battery temperature yet, because it is not an issue for me / it is nothing that has any impact on me/my driving 🙂
I love the car, whether rain or shine, winter or summer 🙂
As a '13 Leaf and brand new Bolt owner it's nice to know I dodged a couple of bullets here. Especially with the Bolt that actually has proper BMS!
Moto Z Play Assuming we're referring to the same video, Pawell (sp) admitted himself that was the fault of the driver and not the car. It had nothing to do with battery conditioning.
Born,
Thank you very much for this vid. Your test of a summer drive is like a wonderful mid-spring or early fall test where I live in upstate New York in the US. You summarized it excellently when you said ‘once the battery gets overheated, there’s nothing good going to happen.” Given that your driving is below typical US interstate highway speeds, US purchasers now know what the MINIMUM heat up / max cool off during highway drive will be. DOG POOR situation.
Like just about everyone that sees this, I have to say that Nissan has really made a major oversight in not adding ANY (not even a fan blowing air...) cooling process beyond convection from the battery. The temp increase during rapid charging or even highway drivin 100 km/h or more is MAJOR, and should not have been ignored.
Even though it’s inconvenient to go more than one rapid charge, I can’t justify buying knowing that using rapid takes the pack near or beyond 50 C. Got to believe there will be range degradation with pack going to 50C even only once a week. This is not a trip car in the USA. It’s a local / commuter car with need to charge less than nightly. Really a shame that NIssan chose no cooling; they just made a prettier than Gen1 car; same risks to battery capacity if batt gets to 50C.
Being a total international zero, do you have access to a Bolt? Would be amazingly informative to see how the Chevrolet Bolt deals with this same drive run.
Again, MANY MANY THANKS for this informative BEST CASE drive example. Greatly appreciated!!
+David Silva Check out my videos about Ampera-e.
Nice to see you are so dedicated to the channel and spreading the EV vehicles!
I wonder if you went through one of those automatic car washes with under body wash if it would cool the battery?
Thanks for the 'summer' test! This car will struggle in Australia where real summer is. High 30s is the common, and can go 40 and above.
And this is why I traded in my old Leaf for an Ioniq premium se. Ive just done Kent (UK) to Inverness and back (about 1,200 miles) with no slow down on charges - about 30 mins each time to 95%. Range at decent motorway speeds was between 120-150 miles total (I stopped approx. every 100ish miles). Shame as I test drove and liked the 40kwh Leaf, I just needed a car that works in every situation. Nissans response to this has been terrible.
Yea having driven the new Leaf I really liked it apart from the wing mirror noise being crazy and no reach adjustment on the wheel was annoying for someone as tall as me. Hopefully there will be some used Ioniqs hanging about in 2 years when I will be in the market for a car. As currently people say it’s hard to get a full EV version of it in the UK
Instablaster.
I would love to see you create episodes that are around 5 to 10 minutes containing just the information we are watching the video for. Maybe start a poll to find out if I’m not the only one?
This is the one you're looking for:
ruclips.net/video/QycmLQriePU/видео.html
The long and detailed ones are for people who want all the information.
Wow 20C is a typical cool spring day here in Florida! Peak summer temps here range between 35F on up!
Perfect. I did buy Leaf this january and can only confirm your words. No problem for me.
If you go on longer trips, try not to go below 40%. Charge to 90%. This strategy will produce the lowest temperature increase. Do not drive faster than 100km/h. Do not use B mode.
Without battery cooling, the Leaf still serves best within its range or a single DC fast charge - great for 90% of commuters. Otherwise, the LG active cooled 60 kWh pack is only now about ~6 months away.
unplugged EV could be an issue in Australia. Aren't you glad despite the small battery, the Outlander PHEV surprisingly has active battery cooling?
Totally agree!
I have heard from a reputable source that the battery is cooled through the CABIN AIR intake through the vents below the back window to the battery. Please try blowing fresh air (maybe using the air conditioner) through the cabin after a fast charge while watching the battery temperature.
It is a very nice car. I had a chance to test drive it and made some videos what I would like to publish soon. Thank you very much for this video. Keep it up.
Very interesting video Bjørn. Thanks. 😄
Very informative video, thanks for making this painful test. 😅
Really glad I chose the IONIQ as my car.
Hello Bjørn,
I was also quite disappointed with our newly acquired Nissan Leaf. On a long trip in the south of France with temperatures around 35 degrees, after a couple of fast charges, the battery started to overheat, refuse to charge fast anymore and reduced the available power output.
But to be perfectly honest, with an autonomy of 200km on the motorway, and the less than reliable charging points available in France, I do not think that the Nissan Leaf and most of its competitors should be considered for this kind of trip. It's much more efficient to keep using it for the small journeys that represent 99% of most people usage of their car. The rest of the time, just rent a good old diesel car, cheap to run.
By the way, could you please give some info on the hardware and software used to display the battery temperature on your mobile?
Cheers,
Timok
+Timok Khan I used LeafSpy and OBDII dongle.
Hej Björn. I would not call this a summer test, it'äs like 12 degrees outside during your ride. I did a drive of 42km with 1.4kWh average, rapid charged from 33% to 77% and then drove back home at 1.4kWh average. Battery kept getting warmer after the chademo charge with 23degrees ambient temperature! :-O I had no time to test any longer trips, but this little tour at 70-80kph roads did heat up the battery pretty well.
Love your tests, very helpful, so I thought I would help with some input too :-) Thanks!
Love your videos. Thanks for taking the time to produce them.
Amazing to see nissan going to this route (no active battery temperature mngt)... I m pretty sure the ionic will be faster on a trip like this despite the smaller batery. Even my i3s would be faster overal I think.
nice summary of your livestream. takk!
Great video, thank you for your information to all the people that wants to buy one electric car and learn how they work
He managed to do over 500km relatively fast. Most people don't drive that much even on longer trips. But that battery :-( It was over 40 degrees during the whole drive. It won't last more than 4 - 5 years if it is overheated constantly...
Tosho Ivanov 49°c during that second charge session is really high
Most people do a vacation trip of around 500-1000km once a year :) so if this was the only car in a family it would be a disaster (and my wife would kill me if we stopped for an hour every 150km :) )
I wait for Plus version, but just to find out if the price is close to model3 :) as most likely waiting lists will be similar (including Kona, Niro and ~50kWh future Ionic)
I think, the Ioniq is currently the best electric vehicle beyond Tesla
Yes sure
In terms of powertrain yes. The car itself however feels kind of cheap & at 28 kWh it is actually one of the smaller battery EV you can buy today.
Fun fact: Ioniq has 28 kWh available energy. Most other car manufacturers use the gross capacity. For example:
- BMW i3 33 kWh (30 kWh available)
- Nissan Leaf 30 kWh (27 kWh available)
- Tesla Model S 75 kWh (70 kWh available)
I believe the true capacity of Ioniq is around 31 kWh. And because Ioniq is about 10-20 % more efficient than most other EVs, it actually beats most of the other cars in its class in range.
Don't forget the Jaguar i-pace. That seems to be a quite nice EV as well. BTW what I have noticed: Only Tesla and Jaguar can design good looking user interfaces for their EV screens. On the other EVs they always look like some stupid SciFi inspired stuff designed by a 3 year old -.- and if they don't have this SciFi style, then the UIs often just look old fashioned.
I-Pace is not out yet. If we include soon to come EVs, we should also include Hyundai Kona and Kia Niro. Those two cars will kick ass for The Lord.
I have a 2013 Leaf now close to 97K miles. This is my daily commute car driving over 70 miles round trip. My work have free charging so the home charge is halved. Leaf is economical to run (like any EV), and I got the car really cheap after incentive and Nissan’s $7500 lease buyout rebate. However, I would not buy another Leaf if Nissan didn’t put in a thermal management system. Enough time I can’t do consecutive rapid charging because the battery over heats. And in winter l lost a lot of range because the battery is cold. I got that the Leaf is built in expensively, but the lack of thermal management for the battery really crimps on the usability of the car. Right now I am waiting for a model 3, likely standard range, no glass roof, no leather seat. The only extra cost item would be the paint, I don’t like the included black paint. I am aware there might not be federal incentive left when the Model 3 standard range come out, if at all. But I will still able to get $2500 California rebate and perhaps other incentive from PG&E. Still want a Model 3. I would not consider a GM or Volkswagen on principle.
Hi Bjørn! Great and very informative video again! But unluckily you didn't have real summer conditions at all! I just did 2 600km+ trips with my LEAF 2.0. On the first one, the temp was like yours and I had a lot of cool rain, so no heating problem. The second trip was completely different: although it wasn't yet really hot, I got around 25º C and a lot of sun pouring in during the charging stops. On my third rapid charge, the T1 temp went quickly up to 55º C and afterwards had big trouble to drop again below 50º C!! What will happen when we get REALLY HOT summer????
If it only had active cooling it would be an aaaaweeesome car...
Bjorn, we need you in Korea doing the Kona EV and Niro EV review.
They will come out in Europe soon, and I think he will test them
super video
I will probably come across as negative again, but oh well, here it goes...
How hard is to put a thermal management system for that battery Nissan?! You've had more than 7 years to get it right and you still manage to screw up.
Your car's battery overheats and throttles charging speed in freaking Norway of all places, how the F do you expect it to work in warmer climates?!
As I write this it's 31 degrees Celsius where I live and it's expected to climb to 34. The Leaf would probably overheat here just by driving it...
And yet, Nissan's response is that battery cooling wasn't a priority for them as most customers didn't demand it or something like that. Say WHAT?!
Most of us do not realize that Nissan was thinking on targetting the car to the Janaese market only, since they do that as a common rule. If it goes well in japan, then they try to move a product to another market. With the Leaf they found that after selling it very well for 9 years, the product appealed to other market faster than they would have expected fro the new leaf. But japanese are always conservative about expansion they always move a steady short pace on inovation and development of new markets.
Hi! Nice test. A battery cooling would be essential for such trips (any sort of cooling). Also 100kW charging would be nice, since 40kWh battery fills up really slow using 40-50kW charging speed. To get this lower you need 100kW at least, so you can fill up till 80-90% in 20-30 minutes, which is acceptable break after every 200km. Actually I was thinking how liquid cooling could be solved, and I think it is not impossible to fill up the battery with some sort of non conducting, non corrosive liquid (like mineral oil, or something) since it is totally closed and sealed (probably pressure proof), so some piping inside the battery pack to manage the cold/warm liquid flow (intake pipe would bring cold/warm fluid to the back of the battery pack, outtake pipe would suck from the front of the battery pack), an outside pump, a heat exchanger, a motoric valve (to control the cold/hot fluid flow from the AC to the battery cooling heat exchanger) and some electronics attached to the CAN bus to read the battery temp values, send command to start A/C unit (when needed or when QC-d) and control the battery cooling pump to cool/heat the battery pack according to the battery temperature. The overall weight would be below 50kg I think, because the battery pack IMO has no more than 10% of free space inside, so calculating from the size of the pack, would not be more than 50 liters of free space inside, and oils are lighter than water.
TB - your just on it with you vids :-)
Instead of fitting a fancy cruise control called pro pilot, you could have included battery cooling and heating for the same money.
Interesting but summer in many country is 25 to 35°C not 13 to 20°C.
Summer in UK, many countries in Europe, Canada and probably many other places are 13-20°C.
Bjørn Nyland hey Bjorn, im from the UK, we generally get hotter summers than you guys in Norway, although we do get alot of rain and cloudy days too. I would say 13-20 is quite low. Love your videos and your analysis of energy efficiency, I can't wait for my model 3. Stay safe, thats it, sheeeyyyt!
Joshua Engering yeah its not unknown for us to get 30+ days, the last 2 weeks has been pretty consistently 20-26 degrees, never as low as 12.
What about the “supercharger gate” ? Is it really true that it gradually will become slower at the supercharger ? Not good 🤔
Great, thanks Bjorn! Would love to see another video with your analysis, and driving and charging graphs, like you did after the winter test. Ambient temperature info, and trip meter approximate Wh/km would be good. Keep up the great work!
I think a lot of Leaf would be buyers are waiting for the higher kilowatt upgrade with the LG & active management in Q3 of 2018?
*kWh
Can you do a summer roadtrip with a Zoe Q210? Thats the car i drive, i watched the winter trip and i am curious what you find of the Zoe in summer time, way better range, and it has active cooling, better for charging in summer :)
I think the leaf is fine in my country of New Zealand. It never gets hotter than 27 degrees or colder than 0. average summer temp is like 24
Hello Bjorn, I live in the Caribbean on the island of Trinidad where the temperatures get as high as 100 deg F. Would you advise buying a 2019 Nissan Leaf for use in these high temperatures? Thanks.
can you repeat the rapid test again but with airconditioning to show what if any affect that would have on the battery temp for d/c fast charging speed over time?
In contrast to a normal gas station, a electric charge station is no fire hazard. So you could make some food with a camping stove.
In addition to the large/obstructive A-pillar, this is the Other reason I'm driving a BMW i3. Test drove the leaf and didn't get it
19:03 that was a close encounter!
It seemed you interpreted the range in Leafspy as the range to 0%. But as you can see in the small print below the indication, it's the range in km until you reach 20% capacity.
+pilootdotcom I didn't use the estimated range. What matters is SoC.
Well, you seemed confused with the Leafspy range which you did consider at 8:42. But again, that's range till 20%, not 0%. ruclips.net/video/_Nv8SSdVvj8/видео.htmlm42s
Bjørn where did you buy your obd 2 dongle? Can i buy at kjell and co?
Hello! What app are you using on your phone to monitor the battery? You use an ODB connector? Thank you
+Paco Arcos LeafSpy
Hey Bjorn. Thanks for your awesome videos :) I'm wondering what app and device are you using the track the information from the car? I have an e-golf and I wanna see what happening with my vehicle too ^^
Its called leafspy.
Only for nissan EVs as far as i know
Wow such short range capacity and you will have overheating issues .. sucks. Lipo's do not like running hot. Lots of bad things happen when hot and bothered. Out of interest Why do you mentally convert and measure into Wh when battery capacity and readout is measured in KWh?
Cant imagine the temperatures in Spain during the summer
Most of us haven't realized yet that the Nissan policy on new products have been always to target a product to the japanese market first, see how it goes there and then think about entering other markets on a low but steady pace. So new leaf was designed to Japan , for the city where never gets that hot nor it's hot for a long time and where you mostly never go more than 1 or 2 charges on the same day. Also there is the trade off of developing a new product with a low entry price, there you have another good reason for not including actvie cooling. A battery pack with active cooling would have , most likely, risen the production cost on a huge percentage, maybe double it. I do not believe that they would say that customer where not asking the active battery coooling if their gattered data would advice otherwise.
@Jose, there´s absolutely no downside to have active battery cooling, actually it´s very needed for optimal performance and durability, furthermore, it´s Nissan
2. Generation, they should have learned this basic fact by now. then there´s the critical need for a +60Kw/h battery, should have been available also, that´s why Nissan is a fail, and Hyundai/Tesla/others will be much more succesful on the EV market.
since when is 12 degrees summer? thats like spring/autumn. I would love to see how the Leaf does when its 25-30 C
Norwegian summer.
Hi, I recently drove 435km without any problems. I left home fully charged and 210km later I charged from 22% to 90% in 38 minutes. 26 degrees all the way. The battery actually lost temperature by the time I got home.
The important thing is not to exceed 95km/h on longer trips and commence the journey fully charged using the granny charger or Type 2.
New leaf is not worth it. Do a review on new Kona Electric, cause I'm thinking of replacing old leaf with Kona.
Hello Bjorn. Do you have news about Leaf E-Plus ?
Hi there, I am thinking a electric car. My route to my workplace and back home is about 120km. Mostly highway.
Would you recommend the Nissan leaf or should I wait for the new Hyundai ioniq?
I am a bit worried about the battery overheating problems in the Leaf.
Awww you cut out the ducks crossing road!
I didn't film it.
Model 3 is going to dominate if they can get cheaperish models out and get them out in numbers.
Most trucks in Europe are limited to 90 kph some a bit lower for insurance reasons. Buses and coaches are limited to 100 kph.
Speed limit for semis in Norway is 80 km/h.
Bjørn Nyland ideal for a telsa semi range test one day.
why is it hot in Norway close to 40c , but in ankara turkey we had 28c today? Norway closer to North pole. but the car showing is 15c in dashboard.
That's the battery temperature.
lovely , 13kw/100km = 1$ in turkey.
Bjorn, help to get eleсtric car! I'm also want to test this cars
wow 30 degrees! Live in Iceland, we have 8 today
+ermining1 That was the battery temperature.
What’s your opinion on Tesla mass layoffs?
unplugged EV I’ve read Elon’s statement, it looks very similar to the statement that my company released when it conducted mass layoffs. Let me be clear, the layoffs at my company we’re not performance based in any way, it was an across the board cut to show investors that they were serious about meeting a financial goal. What we did see was a tremendous amount of negativity follow in the days, weeks and months afterwards as the work was still there, but those who remained had to figure out how to pick up the pieces. Temporary workers and contractors followed, but we haven’t yet recovered from this event from nearly a half decade ago. Time will tell if Tesla follows a similar path.
Great video. But I hope the Leaf owner didn't watch this video :-0
Uhhh, so first fast charge, at an ambient temp of 12°c and it is already slowing the charge. Appalling.
No, first charge had perfect speed.
Bjørn Nyland should it not be charging at 50kw, rather than 43-45kw? Also how would this compare starting off driving at 20c and at typical motorway speeds with an ambient temp up to 30c. I can't see this working well at all in many countries.
Another question, the battery is an enormous thermal mass, how long does it take to cool when parked/slow charging. Will it cool fully to ambient temps overnight in 8-10 hours or will there still be residual heat. Will you have significantly reduced charge speeds on day two of a journey.
The charger can deliver 120A max. So its full Speed. It rises a bit, when the voltage goes up.
Hi bjorn using eco and pro pilot makes no difference to range mate. Cheers
+Fancy a Bev Mate? What do you mean?
Bjørn Nyland hi, if you activate eco whilst using Pro pilot eco doesn't work. I mentioned this in my tips video as I know it is boring to read the entire manual but I did ;) and it states the use of eco does not increase range. Also it mentions not to activate eco whilst in sub zero temperatures. Cheers mate
Ok, thanks for the tip. It was important for me to use the car like other Leaf owners would do.
Bjørn Nyland I will be putting up my first of hopefully 20, 10,000 mile updates on my taxi 2018 leaf here in the UK next week SOH is looking good at 10k ;) ps you ian Sampson etc RUclipsrs gave me the inspiration to do my own channel for taxi drivers using the bev for a commercial use as its price and size is perfect for us. Cheers bjørn
I believe that even if you are happy to be a 40kwh leaf buyer because do low mileage and short journeys your resale will be negatively impacted because of this issue and Nissan’s dismissive responses to existing consumers. The 30kwh version and other similar cars have been shown to do 400mile trips more quickly. Even those still happy with the Nissan ev brand will probably wait for the 60kwh version with active thermal cooling all adding to the downward pressure on the 40kwh version’s resale value. I had great hopes for this car but Nissan dropped the ball regarding the cooling of the battery pack and compounded their mistake with their attempts at face-saving.
"typical leaf driver" ???? XD
Terrible Rapidgate!!!!
Nissan Leaf = very horrible electric car.
In Andalusia now (south of Spain) we have 30 to 40ºC every day.
It's a bad car for North of Europe but it's the most horrible car for South of Europe = Rapidgate²
@17:23 pleasantly surprised with the Milkman :D Must be his older brother, the way he drives. I like all of your roadtrips, but man, chasing the CrazyMilkman from the ferry, in the snow.. never laughed so loud I think :D
Why no one is driving 130km/h to se consumpiton?
I would call this care unable to drive on road trips. There are a lot of places that are much much hotter than Norway too. Regardless I doubt that there are many routes in the US that even have CHAdeMO that are close enough between chargers.
Good video.. now I know much more about the useless battery cooling