Hi Jose. Sounds lovely! Isn’t it fun chasing these beautiful sounds? There’s no Farfisa on it btw, but as you say, not important. Remember, regarding the lead sound, most keyboard players did not go direct into the console with their synths back in the day. They used amps, or stacks as they called them. So there are multiple tracks that are with delay, without delay all going through speakers. Most young synth players don’t do this, so their sounds don’t move any air. Anyway, very nice to meet you here, and best of luck to you and your RUclips channel. x PS…it was a typo to say “not close”, meant to write “its close”.
Hi Jon, first of all thanks for your kind words. And yes: even at our age (I think we are both from '64) it's still a wonderful adventure to chase new sounds! Or in the words of one of my followers: it doesn't get any nerdier :-) Thanks for the new insight about recording the Moog solo - I will have a go at it using one of these Universal Audio studio plug ins - where you can 'place' the sound in a studio setting - sending the Moog through an amp - to move some air (great expression). Somebody was wondering how you know all about the intro - I assume that you had access to original Multi track recording - giving you direct insight of what was going on. Last but not least: have a look at the other comments: keyboardplayers /fans of PF really enjoy this 'quest for the holy keyboard grail' - and I am grateful that you helped us on this collective journey. Warm regards from Jose.
Excellent point about using amps and "moving air". Things were considerably different back then and I often advise people to check out the "Classic Albums" DVDs to see how things were done. For me, Lewisohn's book on the Beatles sessions was an eye-opener on how they used 4-track recorders compared to my approach which was post-Mike Oldfield. I was working with a quarter of a 16-track but the Beatles were working with four times as many tracks as a mono tape deck - a very different perspective!
@@unclemick-synths I did a quick test - not with a real amp in a studio - but with the Capitol chambers plug in - sending the Mini through an Amp and mics at the other side of the room. The effect is impressive - it creates space around the sound and the delay behaves differently. No need for additional reverb.
@@josesvintagekeys with a drum machine or samples I usually add a touch of room reverb on the buss - it only takes a little and it makes the sounds into a drum kit. I guess it's like adding a room mic to a real kit. I ought to try it with other sounds.
Its extremely nice to see that jon is humble and tried to help you. And also you being so humble as to make a video to correct yourself. That is what i call a great youtuber
No need for apologies in this shared journey we've undertaken together. Each step has been a testament to your collective strength and commitment. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed; they have played a crucial role in your shared success. We've faced challenges head-on, learned and grown together. So, pat yourself on the back-no apologies required. Your dedication has been a cornerstone, and we (allow me to be here as a guest) move forward with gratitude for the collaborative spirit that has brought us to this point. Well done my friend, well done.
I was thinking: why would a famous musician like @joncarin6759 take the time to react to my video - and on top of it all: the additional questions, The answer is probably quite simple: he is musician - just like us and a nice guy. I could imagine that in the beginning he felt overwhelmed by the famous artists he worked with and came to the same conclusion: they love music - they are nice and the also love to share they own experience finding new sounds and songs. At the same time: it’s still pretty special :-)
Wonderful work and you are much closer to the original sound. Yes, the wine glasses are the heart of the sound. I hear similarities between the tonality of your Farfisa and the wine glass samples I’ve been experimenting with, and I think it makes a great substitute. No apologies necessary for exploration and discovery. Good work!
From now on: at the shop Me: I'm looking for some nice wine glasses. Assistant: What kind of glasses do you have in mind, sir? Me: G minor glasses, please.@@josesvintagekeys
Excellent idea for a video! It's a mystery that many of us would love to have an answer to. I wish he would have been a little more direct in solving the quest.
The sound I've always been really curious about is the percussive chords in "One of These Days" where, on the recording, there's a swell to a percussive sound with a modulated decay. I've never been able to duplicate that one exactly.
The last time they supposedly used Farfisa was on Dark SideOTM (on the song Time). My guess is that the multilayered intro on Shine On is a combination of the (household projects) wine glasses as the main chords, single high string notes on Solina, Minimoog single notes that follow the chords (based on what we hear on the alternative "demo" version of shine on which is available on RUclips) and Minimoog basslines, bell "sound effects" of tapping wine glasses in various tapespeeds, and minimoog solo on top heavy drenched in reverb (not dry at all). They supposedly didn't use VCS3 on Shine On, only Minimoog. The used VCS3 only as bassline on Welcome to the Machine and maybe on some sound effects ("elevator sound" on Welcome to the Machine ->VCS3/Minimoog?) and maybe Steiner Parker Synthacon according to some sources on the "wind sounds" on Shine on part 2.
@@robertomarconi7342 Yes, you are absolutely correct 😊, I'm not not an expert on this subject, have just been a big Pink Floyd fan since 1992 and have read a lot of stuff about their instruments😉. I totally forgot about that intro on Dogs (how could I forget that? ;) ), that could certainly be Ricks Farfisa Compact Duo.
@@josesvintagekeys Thank you! I'm not an expert, just a big Pink Floyd fan and still researching information myself :) Keep up your excellent work! Here's one link to Shine On alternative demo outtake: ruclips.net/video/EQNjzaTlMRo/видео.htmlsi=aIgLSsv__Kz6krfx
Dear Jose, I think that you don't have to apologise at all. You did everything to the best of your then knowledge. That being said, I think you should be celebrating a little: Jon Carin took you serious enough to deem you worthy of writing to you! I'd be jumping around for joy! You had contact with one of the real "insiders"! For me it would be like Vangelis calling to say: " No, no. That was not the CS80, it was..." And besides, your version of "Shine on you..." was really good! Please: Keep going! Sincerely, Thomas
Wow.. i was thinking the previous video sounded exact.. amazing how our brains can fool us.. anyways please give us more.. more ways to make these 60s/70s sounds..
Great videos, Mr. Jose. I really don't care what were the actual instruments used (sorry, if that is somehow wrong), but the videos were fascinating to watch, and inspired me to try to play that intro. Thanks, very much!
Obviously it's about the sound/music and not about the instruments - but like somebody in the comments said: we like to get Nerdy. Glad you liked it - both versions :-)
I used to do the "wine glasses" chords on Solina too, I knew it wasn't Solina on the original but it made a nice substitute. But then I realised it undermines the lonely sound of the high single notes on the Solina. Now I use a "glass harmonica" type patch from a more modern synth for the wine glasses chords and Solina for the high notes, I'm happy with that.
The intro synth solo part isn't played on the Moog Model D,, it was played in the VCS3 based Synthi A ... as far as I'm aware anyway.. The other solos further on the track with the portamento are the minimoog, but not that first one. The Pink Floyd were very accustomed to the VCS3 and used it to great effect (all the throbbing and wobbling on 'Machine' for example). One more thing,, to my ears,, the wind effect at the start of the second half of shine on sounds exactly like an ARP2600 (noise -> filter), and they did own at least one of those units, so I wouldn't be surprised if it appeared elsewhere on the album.
The intro also uses the Mini - Musical Director Jon Carin even commented on the use of reverb: in his comment on the video he explains that the Mini was recorded through an amp/speaker - creating a natural reverb and ‘moving air’ (his words). The EMS was probly used in the bass sound and sfx. An EMS can;t simply create the horn sound of the Mini - check out some video’s on the EMS and you will find out it sounds completely different.
Carin was pretty clear about it - no Hammond/Farfisa or any other Hammond like instrument - the Wine glasses are the most important in creating the sound
@@josesvintagekeys is a mellotron a keyboard. It only plays pre=recorded sounds. You are the expert, I'm just asking questions. Loved the vid by the way
@@glennbrock6560 well, the real xpert is Carin - he had access to the original Multitrack. I love the Mellotron - synth? keboard? semantics - but I can say it was not used. Great you enjoyed the video - that really counts :-))))
Hi José, the bass in my opinion is an EMS Synthi or VCS3. The sound is similar to some sounds on Obscured by clouds and Dark Side. Group effort means that Roger or Dave played it.
Was waiting for this one. I knew right off the bat that you were missing the mark in your first video. I would even go so far as to speculate that the synth lead isn't even a Minimoog... it's the VCS3, with a CV keyboard hooked up to it obviously. Anyway, it looks like the guy who commented on your video isn't going to divulge what it really is, and I don't blame him. Part of the spookiness of this track is the mystery of what is actually making the sounds.
Carin has only been part of the Floyd scene for 30 years - WYWH is 50 years old. Yes, he might not want to divulge the "secret" - and he also might not really know.
@@mickeythompson9537 hi it’s been 39 years and I’ve spent most of my adult life listening to the original master tapes. It’s a very beautiful combination of elements. Perfect in its simplicity.
Great Journey! I've got no historical knowledge to back my wild assumptions, just using my ears... ;-) But listening to the original, I'm pretty sure there is also a bass drone from the Solina and I think you could get closer with the Minimoog if you'd back off the second oscillator quite a bit, use a little less amount on the mod wheel and modulate the oscillator pitch instead of the filter frequency.
@@mariusleicht excellent input Marius - I spoke to Jon Carin about the bass drone…his answer: it was a group effort :-) You are right: it possibly contains solina, but probably also EMS and Moog
That's amazing! Short of asking Rick, Carin is the best thing! And yeah, the wine glasses info is well-known, but I love what you did with the chords on the Solina. Here, David Gilmour's band plays the intro on wine glasses live. ruclips.net/video/t3AosAlaODw/видео.htmlsi=176ecmS-GRYrv5jn
I have read all comments on both videos on this subject . The great majority of people do not possess the knowledge and much less a trained ear to tell the difference. So many ignorant statements and hearsay about how this was made.
Despite the feedback by Carin, quite a few people have a different views on how it was done. Especially around the EMS Synthi A. They keep saying that the solo was done on the Synthi...Well, I have owned one and it's impossible to play the solo on the Synthi :-( I saw another recreation lately and also there they used the Taurus and the Farfisa. The only mistery that will stay: the bass - 'it's was a group effort' Carin said. I probably featured a Synthi and lots of other stuff. Anyway: I think with the great feedback of Jon we got pretty close
Secondo me anche con l'Hammond andava bene lostesso, ed anche con il Solina che suona l'accordo invece delle singole note. Però io avevo capito da solo che il Taurus bass line non era presente nella registrazione originale. Saluti dell'Italia.
There's an alternative version on SOYCD that has like 5 synths playing a G note (with the middle synth playing what seems to be two notes). They sound like one of the EMS synths. ruclips.net/video/EQNjzaTlMRo/видео.htmlsi=IDJoM694HhYkC0qs Also I am unsure if the Taurus was used, since it released the same year the album was recorded (1975) without any specific date.
check the wine glasses video - even the change to Dmin ( if I am correct) is part of the arrangement. I only think the could not take it a step further - so the used as basis for ‘ real’ instruments in the final song
Hmmm, Dark Side of the Moon was released 1973 and the Moog Taurus came out in 1975. So there‘s no way they could have used it. But I would have also sworn by the Solina and Hammond 😅
Hi Jose. Sounds lovely! Isn’t it fun chasing these beautiful sounds? There’s no Farfisa on it btw, but as you say, not important. Remember, regarding the lead sound, most keyboard players did not go direct into the console with their synths back in the day. They used amps, or stacks as they called them. So there are multiple tracks that are with delay, without delay all going through speakers. Most young synth players don’t do this, so their sounds don’t move any air. Anyway, very nice to meet you here, and best of luck to you and your RUclips channel. x PS…it was a typo to say “not close”, meant to write “its close”.
Hi Jon, first of all thanks for your kind words. And yes: even at our age (I think we are both from '64) it's still a wonderful adventure to chase new sounds! Or in the words of one of my followers: it doesn't get any nerdier :-) Thanks for the new insight about recording the Moog solo - I will have a go at it using one of these Universal Audio studio plug ins - where you can 'place' the sound in a studio setting - sending the Moog through an amp - to move some air (great expression). Somebody was wondering how you know all about the intro - I assume that you had access to original Multi track recording - giving you direct insight of what was going on. Last but not least: have a look at the other comments: keyboardplayers /fans of PF really enjoy this 'quest for the holy keyboard grail' - and I am grateful that you helped us on this collective journey. Warm regards from Jose.
Excellent point about using amps and "moving air". Things were considerably different back then and I often advise people to check out the "Classic Albums" DVDs to see how things were done.
For me, Lewisohn's book on the Beatles sessions was an eye-opener on how they used 4-track recorders compared to my approach which was post-Mike Oldfield. I was working with a quarter of a 16-track but the Beatles were working with four times as many tracks as a mono tape deck - a very different perspective!
@@unclemick-synths I did a quick test - not with a real amp in a studio - but with the Capitol chambers plug in - sending the Mini through an Amp and mics at the other side of the room. The effect is impressive - it creates space around the sound and the delay behaves differently. No need for additional reverb.
@@josesvintagekeys cool 👍
@@josesvintagekeys with a drum machine or samples I usually add a touch of room reverb on the buss - it only takes a little and it makes the sounds into a drum kit. I guess it's like adding a room mic to a real kit. I ought to try it with other sounds.
Its extremely nice to see that jon is humble and tried to help you. And also you being so humble as to make a video to correct yourself. That is what i call a great youtuber
Txxs - you can imagine that i was taken 'off guard' after receiving Jon's feedback - but indeed: that was very kind of him
Jon is one of the most modest people in music, knew him well from 1979-85…He was a wizard at 15!
No need for apologies in this shared journey we've undertaken together. Each step has been a testament to your collective strength and commitment. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed; they have played a crucial role in your shared success. We've faced challenges head-on, learned and grown together. So, pat yourself on the back-no apologies required. Your dedication has been a cornerstone, and we (allow me to be here as a guest) move forward with gratitude for the collaborative spirit that has brought us to this point. Well done my friend, well done.
Well said. We all journey together.
Both videos are a learning experience, and much appreciated.
this is one of the most interesting sound analysis I've ever seen, and the interaction with Jon Carin just mind-blowing!!
I was thinking: why would a famous musician like @joncarin6759 take the time to react to my video - and on top of it all: the additional questions, The answer is probably quite simple: he is musician - just like us and a nice guy. I could imagine that in the beginning he felt overwhelmed by the famous artists he worked with and came to the same conclusion: they love music - they are nice and the also love to share they own experience finding new sounds and songs. At the same time: it’s still pretty special :-)
@@josesvintagekeys because he is a wonderful person with infinite passion for what he does
When the goal is to improve, rather than to be right, we can achieve great results.
Wonderful work and you are much closer to the original sound. Yes, the wine glasses are the heart of the sound. I hear similarities between the tonality of your Farfisa and the wine glass samples I’ve been experimenting with, and I think it makes a great substitute. No apologies necessary for exploration and discovery. Good work!
No worries. Trying is fun.
Those wine glasses are stunning.
agree: the wine glasses are impressive
From now on:
at the shop
Me: I'm looking for some nice wine glasses.
Assistant: What kind of glasses do you have in mind, sir?
Me: G minor glasses, please.@@josesvintagekeys
Excellent idea for a video! It's a mystery that many of us would love to have an answer to. I wish he would have been a little more direct in solving the quest.
Whew, thought I was mistaken. The Taurus and Hammond was quite a shock to me when you stated actual gear.
I understand - the Hammond was clearly mentioned in the book - and I read on the internet the story about the Taurus….and it sounded soooo convincing
Crazy how you were able to achieve same sound with different instruments tho
The sound I've always been really curious about is the percussive chords in "One of These Days" where, on the recording, there's a swell to a percussive sound with a modulated decay. I've never been able to duplicate that one exactly.
I saw them using a Kurzweil for the lead live
correct - as of the live tours in ‘87 they used K250 and later K2000 - K2500.
This is so Nerdy..And cool.
it doesn’t get any nerdier than this - fully agree!!
The last time they supposedly used Farfisa was on Dark SideOTM (on the song Time). My guess is that the multilayered intro on Shine On is a combination of the (household projects) wine glasses as the main chords, single high string notes on Solina, Minimoog single notes that follow the chords (based on what we hear on the alternative "demo" version of shine on which is available on RUclips) and Minimoog basslines, bell "sound effects" of tapping wine glasses in various tapespeeds, and minimoog solo on top heavy drenched in reverb (not dry at all). They supposedly didn't use VCS3 on Shine On, only Minimoog. The used VCS3 only as bassline on Welcome to the Machine and maybe on some sound effects ("elevator sound" on Welcome to the Machine ->VCS3/Minimoog?) and maybe Steiner Parker Synthacon according to some sources on the "wind sounds" on Shine on part 2.
I think you are spot on and I will check the demo versions!
wath about the Farfisa in the intro of Dogs?
@@robertomarconi7342 Yes, you are absolutely correct 😊, I'm not not an expert on this subject, have just been a big Pink Floyd fan since 1992 and have read a lot of stuff about their instruments😉. I totally forgot about that intro on Dogs (how could I forget that? ;) ), that could certainly be Ricks Farfisa Compact Duo.
@@josesvintagekeys Thank you! I'm not an expert, just a big Pink Floyd fan and still researching information myself :) Keep up your excellent work! Here's one link to Shine On alternative demo outtake:
ruclips.net/video/EQNjzaTlMRo/видео.htmlsi=aIgLSsv__Kz6krfx
Tapping glasses?
No need to apologise! Great work, highly interesting. 👍🏻
Love your vids and your ability to learn. Keep up the good work.
txxsss!!
Dear Jose,
I think that you don't have to apologise at all. You did everything to the best of your then knowledge.
That being said, I think you should be celebrating a little:
Jon Carin took you serious enough to deem you worthy of writing to you!
I'd be jumping around for joy! You had contact with one of the real "insiders"!
For me it would be like Vangelis calling to say:
" No, no. That was not the CS80, it was..."
And besides, your version of "Shine on you..." was really good!
Please: Keep going!
Sincerely,
Thomas
Txxs for your kind reply Thomas - and indeed : great that Jon came out to help. In case of Vangelis….hardly no mistake possible: always CS80 :-)))))
Wow.. i was thinking the previous video sounded exact.. amazing how our brains can fool us.. anyways please give us more.. more ways to make these 60s/70s sounds..
I was als convinced it was right…. fooling myself ;-)
Great videos, Mr. Jose. I really don't care what were the actual instruments used (sorry, if that is somehow wrong), but the videos were fascinating to watch, and inspired me to try to play that intro. Thanks, very much!
Obviously it's about the sound/music and not about the instruments - but like somebody in the comments said: we like to get Nerdy. Glad you liked it - both versions :-)
I would love to what synth Carin uses 10 minutes into Roger Waters version of "Dogs" (from "in the flesh" concert)
I think it’s a Kurzweil K2000/2500 their goto synth at the time
I used to do the "wine glasses" chords on Solina too, I knew it wasn't Solina on the original but it made a nice substitute. But then I realised it undermines the lonely sound of the high single notes on the Solina. Now I use a "glass harmonica" type patch from a more modern synth for the wine glasses chords and Solina for the high notes, I'm happy with that.
Excellent analysis and great solution!
Maybe Mr. Jose, this is the time to contact Mr. David Gilmour and clear up our doubts.
i’ll ask my new friend Jon ;-))
The intro synth solo part isn't played on the Moog Model D,, it was played in the VCS3 based Synthi A ... as far as I'm aware anyway.. The other solos further on the track with the portamento are the minimoog, but not that first one. The Pink Floyd were very accustomed to the VCS3 and used it to great effect (all the throbbing and wobbling on 'Machine' for example). One more thing,, to my ears,, the wind effect at the start of the second half of shine on sounds exactly like an ARP2600 (noise -> filter), and they did own at least one of those units, so I wouldn't be surprised if it appeared elsewhere on the album.
The intro also uses the Mini - Musical Director Jon Carin even commented on the use of reverb: in his comment on the video he explains that the Mini was recorded through an amp/speaker - creating a natural reverb and ‘moving air’ (his words). The EMS was probly used in the bass sound and sfx. An EMS can;t simply create the horn sound of the Mini - check out some video’s on the EMS and you will find out it sounds completely different.
Just researched that Pink Floyd did not use a mellotron on this song..
Could be a mellotron on the hammond organ setting.
Carin was pretty clear about it - no Hammond/Farfisa or any other Hammond like instrument - the Wine glasses are the most important in creating the sound
@@josesvintagekeys is a mellotron a keyboard. It only plays pre=recorded sounds. You are the expert, I'm just asking questions. Loved the vid by the way
Maybe it only looks like a keyboard as a dupe, a trick.
@@glennbrock6560 well, the real xpert is Carin - he had access to the original Multitrack. I love the Mellotron - synth? keboard? semantics - but I can say it was not used. Great you enjoyed the video - that really counts :-))))
Hi José, the bass in my opinion is an EMS Synthi or VCS3. The sound is similar to some sounds on Obscured by clouds and Dark Side. Group effort means that Roger or Dave played it.
that sounds logical!
Was waiting for this one. I knew right off the bat that you were missing the mark in your first video. I would even go so far as to speculate that the synth lead isn't even a Minimoog... it's the VCS3, with a CV keyboard hooked up to it obviously. Anyway, it looks like the guy who commented on your video isn't going to divulge what it really is, and I don't blame him. Part of the spookiness of this track is the mystery of what is actually making the sounds.
Carin has only been part of the Floyd scene for 30 years - WYWH is 50 years old.
Yes, he might not want to divulge the "secret" - and he also might not really know.
@@mickeythompson9537 hi it’s been 39 years and I’ve spent most of my adult life listening to the original master tapes. It’s a very beautiful combination of elements. Perfect in its simplicity.
Great Journey! I've got no historical knowledge to back my wild assumptions, just using my ears... ;-) But listening to the original, I'm pretty sure there is also a bass drone from the Solina and I think you could get closer with the Minimoog if you'd back off the second oscillator quite a bit, use a little less amount on the mod wheel and modulate the oscillator pitch instead of the filter frequency.
@@mariusleicht excellent input Marius - I spoke to Jon Carin about the bass drone…his answer: it was a group effort :-) You are right: it possibly contains solina, but probably also EMS and Moog
I simply did not pay enough attention to the modulation - you are fully right about modulation pitch vs the filter
That's amazing! Short of asking Rick, Carin is the best thing! And yeah, the wine glasses info is well-known, but I love what you did with the chords on the Solina. Here, David Gilmour's band plays the intro on wine glasses live. ruclips.net/video/t3AosAlaODw/видео.htmlsi=176ecmS-GRYrv5jn
I have read all comments on both videos on this subject . The great majority of people do not possess the knowledge and much less a trained ear to tell the difference. So many ignorant statements and hearsay about how this was made.
Despite the feedback by Carin, quite a few people have a different views on how it was done. Especially around the EMS Synthi A. They keep saying that the solo was done on the Synthi...Well, I have owned one and it's impossible to play the solo on the Synthi :-( I saw another recreation lately and also there they used the Taurus and the Farfisa. The only mistery that will stay: the bass - 'it's was a group effort' Carin said. I probably featured a Synthi and lots of other stuff. Anyway: I think with the great feedback of Jon we got pretty close
Secondo me anche con l'Hammond andava bene lostesso, ed anche con il Solina che suona l'accordo invece delle singole note.
Però io avevo capito da solo che il Taurus bass line non era presente nella registrazione originale.
Saluti dell'Italia.
There's an alternative version on SOYCD that has like 5 synths playing a G note (with the middle synth playing what seems to be two notes). They sound like one of the EMS synths.
ruclips.net/video/EQNjzaTlMRo/видео.htmlsi=IDJoM694HhYkC0qs
Also I am unsure if the Taurus was used, since it released the same year the album was recorded (1975) without any specific date.
we now know from Jon Carin that they did not use the Taurus 🙄
In vino veritas 😊
I wonder if pink Floyd put that together accidentally? A happy accident
check the wine glasses video - even the change to Dmin ( if I am correct) is part of the arrangement. I only think the could not take it a step further - so the used as basis for ‘ real’ instruments in the final song
Hmmm, Dark Side of the Moon was released 1973 and the Moog Taurus came out in 1975. So there‘s no way they could have used it. But I would have also sworn by the Solina and Hammond 😅
Shine on is on Wish you were here from 1975...so it could have been the Taurus 🙂
@@josesvintagekeys ahhhh….. of course! My bad 😅
I thought your cover sounded perfect!
I thought so too - as a cover it sounded great - but the intention was to use exactly the same instruments as PF 😓
Ok. Why so important for you to make original sound? You know that is imposible. Even pink floyd today would not make the same... Synths, fx, mixer...
it’s just a nice hobby :-)
Because you can learn things during the process of figuring out how they did it.
Because you can learn things during the process of figuring out how they did it.
Because you can learn things during the process of figuring out how they did it.
What if you wanna play on your own instrument at home with perfect rendition?