After some deliberation, I've decided to cut out the part of the video criticizing LTT, der8auer and Level1Tech for "ruining the concept of a home server". Linus, Roman and Wendell are all creators that I respect and look up to. In hindsight, criticizing them for the 'sins' of their respective audiences was not fair. As creators, we're not always responsible for our audiences, and definitely shouldn't be held accountable for the few "bad apples" among our viewers who walk away with a wrong idea after watching our content. The 'criticism' on my end came from a place of frustration. A lot of negative comments under my videos are basically a person hearing something from a big tech channel, and then parroting it as an absolute truth that applies in all situations (e.g. "HDDs are dead, you should only be using SSDs). That being said, this is not something Linus, Wendell or Roman have any control over and definitely not something they should be criticized for. All three creators make absolutely clear that their 'overkill' builds are just that - overkill, and aren't meant as realistic build suggestions. So if any of the aforementioned creators watch this video (I doubt it) and wonder what's up with all the LTT bashing in the comments - now you know, and sorry about that 🙃
Guess what, i build a "NAS" with a Supermicro Server Mainboard, pretty decent Xeon CPU and ECC Memory - so while "technicly" an ordinary Server by Hardware, it's function is "just" being a NAS. (and before anyone screems "wastage", it's rather old hardware i shot for under 200 bucks +PSU i had laying around anyway (Silverstone Strider Platinum 550W) +Case (edit: oh, and ofc the 700 bucks worth of hard drives xP) - so yea, will not be the most power efficient build but also barrely started up as it's for long or rather "intermediate" storage) while i could do more with it, i rather rent a server than running it 24/7 in my home - just a philosophical debate - what matters in the end is to get the job done. Edit2: agree, it's the function that defines a device and not the capabilities of it's hardware - else you could define todays office PC's as "Gaming PCs", as they certainly overpower 90s Hardware, and propably could play 90s games much faster too xD (miss the old days of frequency bound games - nope^^)
Wolfgang, LTT should be bashed. They are one long infomercial trying to pass themselves off as being unbiased reviewers. That isn't even taking into account all the errors they make and try and shift the blame and never take any responsibility for.
@@christopherjames9843 idk about bashed, but being taken with a huge grain of salt/skepticism, i agree but that they would "always" behave that described way is simply untrue and unfair towards all the great ppl at LTT - never forget there's a bunch of ppl, some are doing great in a mediocre company with some narcistic asshole running it - you can't blame each and everyone of them! - stick to those that are actually wrongdoing!
Technically if your server doesn't have 200PB of Nvme SSD storage in RAID 69, 1.2TB of DDR52 ECC memory, quad redundant 2000W PSU's, an Intel Pro Ultra Xeon Sapphire Rapid 128 core CPU and 200K RPM fans, it's not a server.
Pretty much if it hosts or quite literally “serves” content, it is by definition a server, and anything connecting to it, is a client. You host a game lobby for your friends? Your computer is a server. You can even take the definition further with calling certain programs servers, things like display and sound servers come to mind.
@@SS-ARYAN Yea I suppose the term "server" can be divorced from the hardware as long as it is paired with a client. Separating the term "NAS" from hardware could be done but doesn't fit as well. I suppose the key difference is the storage. So a NAS is a specialized type of server?
@@drewwilson8756 Every home server has storage. What makes it a NAS is that the home server is configured to offer that storage space to other clients on the network. NAS vs Home Server is a stupid conversation to be having.
Building small, power-efficient servers that suit the budget and use cases of an average guy is way more interesting than builds that none of us can even dream of imo
Yeah, I personally only watch stuff like LTT because it's basically nerd porn lol It's a shame that life is mostly people watching RUclipsrs and living vicariously because we can't afford to live our own lives :
Most of us cannot dream of those builds, but let's be honest, most of us don't need those builds either. What on the Earth the majority of the homelabbers would do with 128 core Threadripper beast? Yeah, there are people who needs that performance but I'm sure 99.999% of homelabbers don't need that at home. Even if I would have tens of thousends of dollars at my disposal I wouldn't buy or build a powerhouse to have it idle on me on 0.1% capacity all year long.
@@greatwavefan397Partially disagree, I personally see it as overspending, wasteful and overconsuption for 99.99% Why spend 10-100 times more if it already does job well and reliable. Linus group produced like 20+ videos a week with 100+ employees many working with like 8k raw footage also they get all this tech for free or for content. They would put 10gb internet into microwave oven if it get views. I would get to my destination faster and more cheap in 10 y.o. toyota than new maclaren (because we have like 2-3 roads that somewhat be suitable to drive that car at all othervise it would get destroyed in a day, I don't even mention that you can't drive that car at all, due to winter for almost half a year as there are a lot of snow).
Let's not forget that in those LTT videos, it's always emphasized that these overkill machines don't make much sense for consumers. They also have videos on repurposing your old PC as a home server, highlighting that mini PCs, SOCs, and even old office desktops are surprisingly powerful these days for server use. It's not the creators' fault; it's the audience. These are the same people who insist on needing a specific GPU tier for gaming, a certain number of HP for a car, etc... My home server runs on a 2400G, and it's fantastic-constantly underutilized.
@@Philip_J Exactly - a server build recommended for average consumers is heavily dependent on that individual's needs and budget. Obviously I'd love an overkill DELL R750 with 4 GPUs, Threadripper and TB of memory... but I can't even afford the power bill, let alone the purchase price. And I wouldn't even know what to do with so much horsepower. *Edit for clarification
Obviously a NAS isn't a real server. I mean for a server you need a CPU, and storage, and memory, and fast networking... and it should be able to run containers or other server software... 🤔
And for a NAS you need a CPU, and storage, and memory, and fast networking, and most NAS focused OS are able to run containers or other server software, Wait a minute...
As an enterprise systems administrator, if it counts, I come to your channel regularly as it is the only one that offers affordable and realistic home servers. And yes, I say home servers since, by definition, a server is any computing machine that attends to a client's requests. Ignore the comments of people whose only contact with servers has been the LinusTechTips videos... and continue with those good home server videos!
Im in the same job, at work, i dont need to build geo and fully local resilient services that support over 10M customers, big enterprise servers are needed in this case, but at home it isnt, my home server is more a lab with some *must have* services, and must have means I can afford to lose them for an hour or so. What ive learned through Wolfgangs channel from a power efficiency perspective has actually allowed me to reduce my companies power usage, both from a physical server through to air conditioning perspective. All good :)
Indeed. People confuse the designation of the machine with the actual hardware. Even a macbook air can be a server, despite the fact it doesn't have 12 SAS slots, a redundant power supply and a 2U chassis.
@bufordmaddogtannen but one totally should always consider getting an Atto thunderbolt to dual port FC box off eBay and letting that Air access a few extra terabytes of SAN storage, especially with how expensive Apple SSD storage is ;-)
You inspired me to "downgrade" my home server with a Ryzen 7 1800x and I went with the Topton N5105. I gained hardware video transcoding and my server maxes out at 50 watts instead of 150. I built a console gaming PC with the other parts so it was a win win. I personally think seeing really low cost and low power servers is cooler, tbh. I feel like I'm actually fully utilizing my server hardware instead of a bunch of power pretty much being wasted sitting idle most of the time.
I suppose some people may not really understand the importance of power efficiency. Especially for those of us living in Europe, there is a clear cost advantage in running newer hardware that sips power compared to enterprise gear. And with the AM4 and AM5 platforms, even running ECC memory is a reality.
Power is expensive in Australia too. I was running a DL585 with 48 cores and 128GB RAM a few years back and it would use $4 per day of electricity. Even the iLO would use $0.40 a day with the server off, so I had a power board I could remotely power off when not needed. I ran VMs to replicate a work environment, AD, file servers, SCVMM, Kubernetes, Ceph etc, so it was useful to have that capability. I also had a HP Microserver serving files and running some VMs, but because it only used about 30W I didn't mind leaving it on. I would consider them both to be servers.
11 месяцев назад+2
And availability of parts is worse here. We don't have all the cheap servers on ebay, the cheap refurbished hard drives, not to mention the space for a massive 42U rack.
@@boneappletee6416 I think both could apply. A lot of the hardware that reaches his desk is prepared to die a horrific death in a dump-only to be rescued, cleaned, and put in service in what would be the equivalent of a hardware device's 'heaven' :)
If we go to source; IEEE Standard Glossary of Computer Networking Terminology says a server is "In a network, a device or computer system that is dedicated to providing specific facilities to other devices attached to the network. Contrast with: client." So by this definition any computer that can interface with other devices on the network, regardless of hardware, qualifies as a server. And if it is in a 'home' it should qualify as a home-server. But, I mean, if RUclips commentators says it is not, who the hell IEEE think they are to disagree!!!
Just wanted to mention this definition too! Or in other words: A server is a compute-thing which serves a service to a client. It's about the role, the purpose, of the compute-thing which makes it a server, not the hardware used. So, a NAS, which serves file storage over network to a client, also often called a "file server", is pretty much a server.
Your practical HOME server builds are why I like your channel. I like seeing the high end stuff too but your videos provide actual useful recommendations. If it serves, it's a server.
Long story short, server is a very broad term, it encapsulates any computer/electronic device that can serve information to another device through a network. A NAS *is* a server - that's what makes it different from just putting more drives in your computer, it's in the name, *network-attached*. Even if you use the smallest, simplest microcontroller to connect to the network, it's still a server, even if it only functions within a local network, the protocols used are exactly the same.
I do kinda get the "not a REAL server" mentality, despite it being obviously incorrect, because a lot of the time a prebuilt NAS can be essentially vendor-locked, limited in its functionality, not being able to function as a fully fledged traditional server, so I understand labeling those as "just a NAS" (even though they're still servers).
There is a role for gatekeepers. Even if, in this case, it's only to signal their profound levels of ignorance. 😂 I do wonder though... I have a small form factor PC with a decent sized SSD. It's storing files for me, and it's running my Minecraft/Nextcloud. What is that machine in their eyes? 😄
Even a Raspberry Pi Zero can be a home server. As long as it's at home and serving a service. You'll get the hardware that's best for the needs. Even data centers get the machine that's the best for the job, and not the beefiest.
Back in 2010, I was a network manager, in a hospital. We had several servers. No one would ever try to claim that they weren't "real" servers. Any one server did one of two different sets of things. Set One was "Deliver files & control who can access those files." Set Two was "Run a database engine." One of the servers also acted as a Microsoft Domain Controller & DHCP server. Plus, we had a dedicated backup server, connected to the tape drive. That's it. None of those servers had any more than a couple of Pentium II processors. They were pretty lame, but they did the job for over 500 connected users. Mostly because almost all of the processing actually took place out on the desktop. When a user "ran a program," they were literally executing a .EXE file that was delivered to them over the network. Often, that program literally modified database files itself, using nothing but lock files to control which user was modifying which bits when. It as all very old school. And some programs accessed one of those database engines. But still, most of the processing happened at the desktop. Hell, an Apache web server does more actual work delivering a typical MySpace page than these old servers did. But.... No one would ever try to say they weren't "real" servers. Yup, gatekeeping has always been a big problem in the tech "community." I had one guy try to gatekeep me because I didn't write any PERL scripts. While I was the network manager of a hospital. I just chalk it up to insecurity problems, and ignore them.
5:02 I will also debate the notion that a "real home server" needs to run VMs. A home server is a machine that _serves_ some amount of services that is located in your home. Nothing more, nothing less. My lowly Raspberry Pi 4 is being used as a home server, with every service running as a Docker container. Is it the most capable server? No. Is it as scalable as a more complex and expensive solution? Also no. Does it serve my current needs? Absolutely it does.
Im running mini-PC with intel celeron, running ubuntu server with casaos and bunch of dockers for jellyfin tranmission client, smb share and stuff like that so i guess it's also kind of a home server even though i have no VM's or proxmox
Thanks for bringing the problem of power efficiency on the table. People in IT do not care enough about it, however this subject will become more and more concerning in the next decades... Also, thanks to your videos, I've realized how much hardware have improved on energy efficiency. Anyway, it's very appreciable to watch your content, keep continuing building and bringing knowledge to the world :)
What the internet lacks of is non-boasting low dollar practical computer/server builds that you present. I emphasise the word PRACTICAL, as most of us (unlike rich LTT) do need to consider the costs of setting up and running NAS/home servers. Well done Wolfgang! Keep making your videos!
I am in the process of figuring out how I want to build my home server. Your channel is reasonable when it relates to what and how to build compared to the other channels you mentioned. Thats why a watch it! Keep up the good work!
Your videos were one of the first if not the first videos I ever watched when I got into home server. Being from the UK, my one and only priority is to build cheap and power efficient servers. Watching your video, I build another small server using Topton motherboard and PicoPSU and I love it and has become my full-time server. With 16 LXCs and 2 VMs (Truenas and CentOS), CPU, utilisation idles around 12%.
I really enjoy your videos on smart and affordable home servers. That's basically what I want for my apartment that has no dedicated/separate tech room: a small home server that handles backups, media, and might offer processing power if you want to run some docker containers on it or compile code, while not using too much energy, putting too much heat into the room, or being too loud. You provide a lot of inspiration and ideas on what to buy and how to set it up, but I gotta admit I didn't settle for a system yet or buy it - but some day I will for sure.
maybe ppl have the wrong definition of what a home server really is. is a dual socket xeon v2 kit with redundant psu from ali a home server? or as mentioned LTT builds? nice that you brought up the comparison between 2023 corei3 vs 2013 xeons. i'm more with you on your power efficiency analysis and SFF wife-friendly builds and self-host/secure/backup/productivity side apps that we modest homelabers care about.
Great video. I own a synology and it’s plenty powerful to run all the services I need including ad block, plex, home bridge, and few other docker containers. It works flawlessly and never had an issue with performance. I got excited about getting a decommissioned enterprise server but didn’t because I wasn’t sure what else i would do with it except maybe sleep knowing I got one.
I really appreciate your approach to energy efficient servers, a lot of the US-based audience don’t understand the costs of running old enterprise hardware. I’ve been guilty of building on decommissioned enterprise, but I have shifted to building less power-hungry and quieter machines. One thing I would love to see from you is building these types of machines on rack-mount cases (specifically interested in a small rack that you could keep inside your office, with networking hear + a few servers, maybe more interested if they fit in a networking rack which is less deep)
Love the video, for me it is fun to watch the crazy projects der 8auer and LTT are doing. When it comes to the point of researching stuff for my own homelab I always come back to your channel. Because I know you won´t forget the aspect of power efficiency and lower budget limits. The balance between power consumption and pure performance is very important to me since prices for electrical power is on an alltime high in germany. Thanks for your videos!
Does it respond to network requests to process and/or serve data? If the answer is yes, then its a server. Saying that a NAS isn't a server is like saying that a square isn't a rectangle.
Great video! I spend a lot of time recently on reddit (those are words I'm not sure I should be proud of) trying to explain to first time homelabbers that they don't need to spend $2K on new AMD Ryzen multithread monsters to stream their movies and offload photos and videos from their smartphones. That they can start with a prebuilt NAS and/or a second hand enterprise mini pc for $100 from ebay. It's an uphill battle sometimes because the people you describe that absolutely believe that a prebuilt NAS is completely useless for anything BUT serving files, keep writing walls of text on how they should build out their first rackserver in excrutiating detail... I am about to move my 18 docker containers that I run on my NAS (with a weak 4c CPU and 8GB of ram) to said six, seven year old enterprise mini pc. And I expect that to be a big upgrade that will hold me over for the next few years. Now I might add addtional mini pc's to build a cluster of them. But that is a whole other thing.
"trying to explain to first time homelabbers" oh god i feel you, especially if its in r/selfhosted They are just a buch of fanatics that doesn't want to learn neither understand what they are doing. I talk it a lot about it already in r/selfhosted but my server doesn't use VMs (and consider them to be useless bloat) , and for a lot of them they consider its not a server even tho i can run literally thing easier because AUR (it user arch btw), i also don't use docker but that because want easy configuration, easy interaction between some of my app and lazyness
Lol.. love the group of RUclipsrs you tapped to read comments. Hardware Haven? Jeff Geerling? Well done!! I don't care for gatekeepers either.. I mean, Isn't a NAS a specialized and scaled file 'SERVER'? When was that 'service' eliminated as a 'service' provided by servers? And seriously, I'd immediately terminate the services of a contractor who tried to sell me on a dual processor Epyc server to provide email and file storage to an office of 4 real estate agents. Now, it might be seriously cool to have one sitting in my basement running nothing but Jellyfin, piHole and in instance of TruNAS.. but it would absolutely be overkill. Until I can afford that kind of power draw on a daily basis though, I'll stick with my i3-4130 idling at 19 watts.. and I'll keep calling it a Server.
I actually agree with wolfgang, the difference between the 2 in a homelab environment has become defunct since you can run either on just about anything these days, technically speaking you'd be hard pressed to distinguish the difference even in an enterprise environment since in my career almost 25 years ive seen repurposed thin clients being used in the field, hell i run a shucked, repurposed mobile workstation (laptop) in an aftermarket 1U rack mount case running ubuntu server and its currently responsible for 1 part of my self hosted services
I use a very similar definition as you on my channel. For me, a home server has to have virtualization at least. My server is also an old thin client PC, btw.
Very, very cool that you got your YT content creator friends to do the voice over for the 'comments' 😁😁😁 I thought you had some really amazing voice-changer AI tweaked to do that for you. But, no, those voices were real. Super cool !! (BTW, I am still hoping you'll make a video about a Intel N100 server-build)
Your channel has been a big help for me in getting lower power use, without losing too much in performance and features. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
Totally agree that any simple machine can be used as a home lab server so long it gets the job done. My home server, a 4-core, 4GB RAM mini PC 🔥😂, has been reliably providing answers to my queries for almost four years. Running various Docker containers, including my website, Jellyfin, and numerous other services, it operates flawlessly. However, I've recently upgraded to another mini PC featuring a Ryzen 9 processor with 8 cores, 16 threads, and 64GB of RAM. I intend to utilize this system for at least a decade 😂😂."
Now that's the way to defend practical, high efficiency, low-power consumption, home lab construction. I appreciate your videos for exactly that reason. Kudos on the Tech-tube celebrity comment voice-overs as well. Happy holidays and i look forward to more of your great content in 2024!
I think most of your audience watches your channel, just because you do those builds. Love your videos, keep the high efficiency low power home servers coming!
A server offers a SERVICE to other devices, whether it be a connection to printers, storage, some type of compute workload, webpages, whatever - it primarily 'gives'. a client essentially only 'takes'...yes a Win11 PC CAN also share files or a printer but it would only be a server if that's its PRIMARY role...so yea, a NAS is a server. Period. Its primary role is to give. I mean no one would argue that a database server isn't a server, it IS, and YET it is basically just a NAS for a vey specific type of data. There's no argument to be made - only a question - "In it's primary role does the device 'give' or 'take'?"
Ironically this video convinced me to watch your Perfect Home Server video, I saw it in my recommended video before but I thought "nah, I'm just looking for NAS, not a server", but since some people consider it "just" a NAS, maybe it's not overkill for what I'm wanting to build.
I use 4th gen intel NUCs (4 machines) as my home servers. Those work great have multiple services on them, including Proxmox as hypervisor. I fully support the idea, that servers could be low budget and low power and somewhat low end hw
Those power-efficient home server builds of yours are precisely why I keep visiting your channel. You've got excellent content ideas, presentation and I appreciate your videos!
Dude... you had me at 'very petty and happen to have a lot of time on my hands'. Oh, and nice work getting Raid Owl to read at least one of the comments!!
Dude, this 100%. The gate keeping is so strong in this hobby it surprised me a little. Same things with trying Linux, no matter what you do, someone will say that you're doing it wrong
I mean that's only because so much can go wrong with Linux with few guardrails. But that's what we enjoy about it. That and not being a Microsoft or Apple data mine.
It’s crazy that people even dare to call you untrustworthy … Everytime I watch a video from you, I enjoy how well researched, thought-through and well-argued the conent is. Thank you for all the inspiration, shared knowledge, fun and the work you put into this. Dont think about those who always find something to complain about. Keep doing your thing :)
I've finally finished building my home server with your help and I just want to thank you again for the content you produce, I got to learn a lot from this and have fun while doing it :)
Completely on par with you. A sever is something or someone who do a service. A public employee is a server. Any hardware that serves something to other machines or itself is a server. For example when you install Appserve or just MySQL in your laptop, now your laptop is a server. About the hardware, people should be wise enough to see what you are trying to achieve here. Power efficiency, low noise and even room temperature friendiness is a must in a real home server. Nowadays people think that the only way to have a server at home is to buy the best decomissioned enterprise computer money you can buy and place it at home. Doing that usually backfires like when you buy a used but ready to fly Cessna and now you are trying to park that thing in your parking space at the building where you live. When you see channels like L1, STH or even LTT, the presenter does not pay the multiple associated bills from his pocket. Those are full blown bussineses that happens to do YT content creation and gained an audience strong enough to pay those high prices of electric service, dedicated channel internet services, offices and employees.
As someone who is looking into the low end budget low energy area, chances are I need both a Server and a NAS, so the fact your videos offer the best of both is exactly what I want!
My server is old ITX board with AMD E350 paired with 4GB of RAM and 8TB HDD. I'm running 7 docker containers on it and OMV bare metal. I haven't had any single problem in past few years and it serves me just fine. People usually go way overkill on their servers, I've ran RPi 4 few years ago as NAS with few docker containers and it worked just fine. It was cheap and barely used any power. Your builds are way more interesting to me than LTT or any other RUclipsrs builds because people usually don't care about power efficiency or noise, they just build normal PC and stick bunch of HDDs in it without optimizing anything.
I specifically watch your Videos because it gave me the perspective that a home server can be something small and efficient, as energy prices are quite expensive here in Germany. Additionally, like you mentioned, you typically don't need all the processing power except for maybe the occasional game-server, and these newer CPUs on consumer motherboards are way more efficient systems than a 10-year-old ear-damaging leafblower in a rack
I've come across and watched a few videos of yours in the past. I just watched this whole video and because of your tact & class and handling of this situation, you've got a subscriber for life. I have a pretty decent 11th gen Intel build, I also have a 6-year-old q-nep, and a latte panda that I'm trying to consolidate everything into more efficient home server build. Server build. The qnap works, but there's a few more advanced things that I want to do that I feel like the software limits me. So I'm in the process of learning how to build out the latte panda as an unrated server. I'll go back through your videos and see if there's anything I could utilize. Keep up the great work!
I 100% relate to the "I'm very petty and have a lot of free time on my hands" comment! I love the channel, perspective, and ideas, keep the great work going! Thank you!
I appreciate your take. I've seen others go the used enterprise route, and you definitely pay a premium for it. My first server was a retired gaming system that had a dual core athlon. My second one was the same, this time a 4 core ivy-bridge CPU. I decided I needed a bunch more storage, but that even used enterprise gear was too expensive. So I got a Fractal Node 804, which can support 10 HDDs without having to buy any extra hardware, and built an AMD system using a 3600. That was far cheaper and better on price performance than anything else at the time. I've again outgrown that server, and now I use an old netapp disk shelf attached to the same computer, but it served me well for years. People will say, "You MUST use ECC." You don't need it. People will say, "You need hardware virtualization support." You don't. People will say, "An UPS is required." Also not true. Many people use computers every day without this things. There is no compromise to their data. There is no net negative on how their computer operates. These features are nice to have, at scale, in an enterprise. Most people don't need them, and most consumer hardware can be more than adequate.
thank you wolfgang for taking the time to answer the most basic of questions. i find when you ask "experts" basic questions(as you stated) they just brush them off. i can't learn anything if info is gatekept and them being on there high horse with non helping attitude doesn't help either. looking forward to more of your stuff.
Thanks for sticking to basics, old tech, checking your actual CPU load & what works to get the job done. Plus, good to explain what a NAS is. If one is serious about it, yes, it's a different machine, just for handling storage that reconstructs data when drives fail & you replace them. The other stuff on too is extra services that are "nice". I'm looking to do a project for general home build that automatically backs up my devices with no fuss
Any that servs is a "server" if people want to be petty. A toaster running Pi-hole is a server. It doesn't have to be some crazy mainframe filling rooms in a dedicated space. I'll prefer anything energy efficient that is quiet, over headaches from my power bill
I love this. Back in the 2000's i worked a lot with network administration. One place I worked ran with large Dell and Compaq servers costing thousands and thousands of dollars. What did all those servers do? They provided network drives to the company that owned it.... lots and lots and lots of harddrives attached and pretty much notning else. Would anyone say that those machines, running Windows NT and Windows 2000 Server weren't servers? Nope. A server is a computer or system that provides resources, data, services, or programs to other computers over a network.... and that's it. Great video!
You actually made a real point here Wolfgang. My homelab actually has 2 parts: one running the stuff I need at home and which is 24/7 on (storage server, router, very small machine having enough juice to run a DC and a minecraft server based on a very old Core i5 I recovered from a thrown away machine. The thing has a solid 32Gb of RAM. It litterally runs my home on a day to day basis and when it fails, a lot of things go south in the house. But it never did so far. And the day it does, I have some old laptop laying around with a bit less of memory (Minecraft server consumes most, but that is not critical). The only thing I gotta do is connecting the 2 hard drives holding the VM's to it and I am up and running again. Besides of that I got this kind of almost enterprise level machine I built myself based on server grade components: Xeon scalable, 256Gb of RAM, SDD's provide the storage for the VM's. But the thing is: i only spin it up when I need to test a specific infrastructure for work or for studying purposes. Meaning: it is off for most of the time (it has BMC/IPMI on the motherboard, so I can spin it up when I need it. Takes less than 5 min to boot and bring online all of the VMs on it. And even on that machine I made a sin when I hear most of the youtubers: it runs on HyperV for crying out loud.... (did make this choice as it is almost zero maintenance and combined with Microsoft VMM, building a new VM is basically a couple of clicks.) This is the kind of machine a LOT of people think you need to have at home. But they forget that this kind of machines is used to host large database servers, hold VM's for software development and capable of compile large portions of source code in a minimum of time. FOr studying purposes e.g. I need to be able to run Sharepoint server, SCCM, WSUS (yes, I am a MS guy). But guess you all get the point: this is for stuff about 99% of the people do not need at all... So why throw thousands of dollars or Euros in it if you just use it to host a plex server, some photos and 3 or 4 VMs. My take: if you have something between 500 and 1000 euros you can build ALL of the homeserver you need with a ridiculous amount of RAM and redundant storage and a decent processor... Me personally, if I friends ask me to build a homeserver for them (happened a couple of times) this channel is my go to place, and also the NAS Compares channel when it comes to storage {SDDs and HDDs)
I really had a laugh when I heard Jeffs voice on one of the comments.I downsized my i3 machine in the past weeks and now use a n100 mini pc for most homeserver actions. The 4K transcoding on the GPU works also great and with so little wattage which is crazy.
I like your videos, we need more like them. I need a home server that are power efficiency and quite. My home server is on my desk, running proxmox with vm.
I tend to agree. Even tho' I (we?) all like more power, it can become a bit of "mine's bigger". Computers have taken over where roaring cars and tyres screeching used to do. Or maybe it's geeks vs hoons. While I like main machine to be powerful enough, I also run old machines till the die. So the more useful ways to use old stuff, the better. Rock on.
I really like your presentations, even though I'm just starting to learn about servers and NAS related tech. My only goal is to build & maintain my own Home Lab/VLAN/Server/NAS type of system to store security cam video, backups of my home theater library, some home automation and common office networking, all behind a VPN and firewall that can stop ads, tracking, data collection without any cloud services and a minimal amount of Wi-Fi as well as the amount of battery back-up needed to maintain this system for 10 hours of power failure. Needless to say, I have a lot to learn. Just getting to the point of knowing what features to incorporate took a while, but worth the effort to begin catching up with what's available.
it's precisely because you (and the others you credited at the end like Jeff) do interesting things in interesting ways that I watch you all - I don't need 192 threads on the latest threadripper to run pihole or HomeAssistant... there's more skill and ingenuity trying to achieve more complex workloads in a smaller power envelope, or turning someone else's garbage into something useful (like Hardware Haven). If I had a serious workload, I'd be using a data centre not a cupboard or my garage!
I absolutely love the collaboration with all the other great RUclips content creators! It's great to see everyone support each other, including the content creators! Another great video and I hope to see more little colabs like this!
Any device that can "serve" is a "server", there for a NAS that can "serve" files is a server. Now you can pack all functionalities into 1 beefy device, and call it a home server. Or you can decentralize things, so things break less easy, and things are easier to replace. Like I did with my home build central audio system which runs from a NanoPi NEO which is far from beefy. A Home Sever should be a device that is at the center point, of controlling/serving things in you house. So in a very decentralized system, the NAS with a little bit extra juice can actually be the best candidate to be called home server.
I have a home server that is just a 2010s era recycled HP. Just like you pointed out in your video, the stats for my home server doesn't compare to the NAS builds that you have. And yet, with all that, I can run k3s with LDAP (still building out the environment). Wild how people treat what is needed for a home server.
I use Power efficient Hardware for my Homeserver(s) for over a decade now. I started with used enterprise hardware (Xeon), but when the first integrated Intel Atom Boards came around 2007/2008, I gave those a try, first out of pure curiosity whats possible on those... they were problematic if you used windows, but using linux, they could do (almost) all the things I used the server mainly for. I remember using the Xeon For remote 3D-rendering (Terragen), which was a disaster on the atom, as one could guess. But thats simply a usecase that needs beefy hardware. Sharing files, running Bittorrent and Syncing-Jobs isn't, so the Low Power CPUs stayed for those "always on" machines. Today I use an Intel Celeron J3160, which is also 7 years old by now, but I don't see a reason to upgrade. - So yeah, keep the cost and Power efficient content coming, I think its way more interesting to see things that could make sense for me, and are actually affordable.
as an Software developer I feel a bit of anger when people forget what a term means and where it comes from. Server from to serve is a role/task description. I have refered to a lot as a server (because thats what they did) from phones streaming music to others in the room for sillent discos to rack mount pc's(more presise description of what people think of as a server)
I'm even surprised that someone could pay attention to the naming. To me it was absolutely clear and I name my home server as a "home server". Who cares?! Thanks for your videos Wolfgang! I learned a lot from them.
I've built my home server thanks to your high quality videos, so there is no question for me. It's not the hardware but what you do with, that makes a computer a server.
I am interested in learning about a system (NAS/server I don't care) that provides a backup service that includes protection against ransomware or network infection. This would require a backup that pulls data, blocks external access and will not permit execution of files. At present, I do this with a 3T HD air gapped on a usb connection. I only connect the drive when I want to make a backup or recover a file. There has to be a better way.
Enjoyed the celebrity voices! If any of your guests are curious as to whether it was worth their effort; while I recognized Raid Owl, Jeff Geerling and Colten (HH) right; I was unaware of "f4mi" and "alexktz" until the credits rolled, and have now subscribed to both. Thanks and a Merry Christmas to all!
I was running my home server on a Core 2 Quad for about two years, through 2021-2022, worked wonderfully. Others came to me with electricity usage concerns, so I got convinced into moving it all to a 2011 macbook with a dead GPU, no display, no CD drive, etc. That solution's been a bit more limited in capacity,moved from a 1tb drive to a 750 but it's worked and is still what I'm using today. I did recently pick up a complete 6700K and 32GB ram system for free, I plan on getting a NAS style enclosure to replace its case, filling it out with 2tb SSDs in a RAID5, and setting up my next server setup around that. To be honest, it's wildly overkill, a 6700K on a home server that mostly just runs a NextCloud instance, but I got it, I got nothing else for it, so to server use it goes.
Jesus christ... There is always gonna be that little collection of "Actually..."-people that live in a basement, never go outside and lives in a bubble. Good informational video like always Wolfgang. Keep up the great work.
Man ur server builds are great! All of ur vids are and thought me alot thanks for that i got here in the Netherlands my masters degree thanks largely to ur vids
Great stuff. The end you sounded like Scooter: "to Westbam, Marusha, Stevie Mason, The Mystic Man, DJ Dick, Carl Cox, The Hooligan, Cosmic, Kid Paul, Dag, Mike Van Dyke" 🎵
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
After some deliberation, I've decided to cut out the part of the video criticizing LTT, der8auer and Level1Tech for "ruining the concept of a home server".
Linus, Roman and Wendell are all creators that I respect and look up to. In hindsight, criticizing them for the 'sins' of their respective audiences was not fair.
As creators, we're not always responsible for our audiences, and definitely shouldn't be held accountable for the few "bad apples" among our viewers who walk away with a wrong idea after watching our content.
The 'criticism' on my end came from a place of frustration. A lot of negative comments under my videos are basically a person hearing something from a big tech channel, and then parroting it as an absolute truth that applies in all situations (e.g. "HDDs are dead, you should only be using SSDs). That being said, this is not something Linus, Wendell or Roman have any control over and definitely not something they should be criticized for. All three creators make absolutely clear that their 'overkill' builds are just that - overkill, and aren't meant as realistic build suggestions.
So if any of the aforementioned creators watch this video (I doubt it) and wonder what's up with all the LTT bashing in the comments - now you know, and sorry about that 🙃
Guess what, i build a "NAS" with a Supermicro Server Mainboard, pretty decent Xeon CPU and ECC Memory - so while "technicly" an ordinary Server by Hardware, it's function is "just" being a NAS. (and before anyone screems "wastage", it's rather old hardware i shot for under 200 bucks +PSU i had laying around anyway (Silverstone Strider Platinum 550W) +Case (edit: oh, and ofc the 700 bucks worth of hard drives xP) - so yea, will not be the most power efficient build but also barrely started up as it's for long or rather "intermediate" storage)
while i could do more with it, i rather rent a server than running it 24/7 in my home - just a philosophical debate - what matters in the end is to get the job done.
Edit2:
agree, it's the function that defines a device and not the capabilities of it's hardware - else you could define todays office PC's as "Gaming PCs", as they certainly overpower 90s Hardware, and propably could play 90s games much faster too xD (miss the old days of frequency bound games - nope^^)
NAS
Did Linus remove the tape first before building his NAS and reviewing it?
Wolfgang, LTT should be bashed. They are one long infomercial trying to pass themselves off as being unbiased reviewers. That isn't even taking into account all the errors they make and try and shift the blame and never take any responsibility for.
@@christopherjames9843 idk about bashed, but being taken with a huge grain of salt/skepticism, i agree
but that they would "always" behave that described way is simply untrue and unfair towards all the great ppl at LTT - never forget there's a bunch of ppl, some are doing great in a mediocre company with some narcistic asshole running it - you can't blame each and everyone of them! - stick to those that are actually wrongdoing!
A server is a role given to a computer, this means anything can potentially be a server
Technically if your server doesn't have 200PB of Nvme SSD storage in RAID 69, 1.2TB of DDR52 ECC memory, quad redundant 2000W PSU's, an Intel Pro Ultra Xeon Sapphire Rapid 128 core CPU and 200K RPM fans, it's not a server.
Pretty much if it hosts or quite literally “serves” content, it is by definition a server, and anything connecting to it, is a client. You host a game lobby for your friends? Your computer is a server. You can even take the definition further with calling certain programs servers, things like display and sound servers come to mind.
@@SS-ARYAN Yea I suppose the term "server" can be divorced from the hardware as long as it is paired with a client. Separating the term "NAS" from hardware could be done but doesn't fit as well. I suppose the key difference is the storage. So a NAS is a specialized type of server?
@@drewwilson8756 Every home server has storage. What makes it a NAS is that the home server is configured to offer that storage space to other clients on the network. NAS vs Home Server is a stupid conversation to be having.
Indeed. Sometimes my phone is a server. Although phones are really bad as servers due to their intermittent connectivity.
Building small, power-efficient servers that suit the budget and use cases of an average guy is way more interesting than builds that none of us can even dream of imo
Yeah, I personally only watch stuff like LTT because it's basically nerd porn lol
It's a shame that life is mostly people watching RUclipsrs and living vicariously because we can't afford to live our own lives :
Yes I agree
Most of us cannot dream of those builds, but let's be honest, most of us don't need those builds either. What on the Earth the majority of the homelabbers would do with 128 core Threadripper beast? Yeah, there are people who needs that performance but I'm sure 99.999% of homelabbers don't need that at home.
Even if I would have tens of thousends of dollars at my disposal I wouldn't buy or build a powerhouse to have it idle on me on 0.1% capacity all year long.
Right, because using technology to make your life better in ways you didn't know how to is exciting!
@@greatwavefan397Partially disagree, I personally see it as overspending, wasteful and overconsuption for 99.99%
Why spend 10-100 times more if it already does job well and reliable.
Linus group produced like 20+ videos a week with 100+ employees many working with like 8k raw footage also they get all this tech for free or for content. They would put 10gb internet into microwave oven if it get views.
I would get to my destination faster and more cheap in 10 y.o. toyota than new maclaren (because we have like 2-3 roads that somewhat be suitable to drive that car at all othervise it would get destroyed in a day, I don't even mention that you can't drive that car at all, due to winter for almost half a year as there are a lot of snow).
Let's not forget that in those LTT videos, it's always emphasized that these overkill machines don't make much sense for consumers. They also have videos on repurposing your old PC as a home server, highlighting that mini PCs, SOCs, and even old office desktops are surprisingly powerful these days for server use.
It's not the creators' fault; it's the audience. These are the same people who insist on needing a specific GPU tier for gaming, a certain number of HP for a car, etc...
My home server runs on a 2400G, and it's fantastic-constantly underutilized.
I agree
I use a 9700T (35W) limited to 4 cores (can enable more if I ever need) and a RPI 3B+ :P
I use a Raspberry pi 4B 4GB, which is running a NAS, Home assistant, VPN, Octoprint, and it doesn't break a sweat.
@@Philip_J Exactly - a server build recommended for average consumers is heavily dependent on that individual's needs and budget. Obviously I'd love an overkill DELL R750 with 4 GPUs, Threadripper and TB of memory... but I can't even afford the power bill, let alone the purchase price. And I wouldn't even know what to do with so much horsepower.
*Edit for clarification
Ignorance in this day 'n' age has to be willful, right? Lol
Obviously a NAS isn't a real server.
I mean for a server you need a CPU, and storage, and memory, and fast networking... and it should be able to run containers or other server software...
🤔
NAS can do that, right?
And for a NAS you need a CPU, and storage, and memory, and fast networking, and most NAS focused OS are able to run containers or other server software, Wait a minute...
@@陳涵宇-d4s Right ?
Ayo jeff my boy...love you man :)
Are we ever seeing a Geerling + Wolfgang collab? :) I work with IT for over 20 years now, and this two are the most down to earth guys ever.
As an enterprise systems administrator, if it counts, I come to your channel regularly as it is the only one that offers affordable and realistic home servers. And yes, I say home servers since, by definition, a server is any computing machine that attends to a client's requests. Ignore the comments of people whose only contact with servers has been the LinusTechTips videos... and continue with those good home server videos!
Im in the same job, at work, i dont need to build geo and fully local resilient services that support over 10M customers, big enterprise servers are needed in this case, but at home it isnt, my home server is more a lab with some *must have* services, and must have means I can afford to lose them for an hour or so. What ive learned through Wolfgangs channel from a power efficiency perspective has actually allowed me to reduce my companies power usage, both from a physical server through to air conditioning perspective. All good :)
Indeed. People confuse the designation of the machine with the actual hardware.
Even a macbook air can be a server, despite the fact it doesn't have 12 SAS slots, a redundant power supply and a 2U chassis.
Seconded word for word.
@bufordmaddogtannen but one totally should always consider getting an Atto thunderbolt to dual port FC box off eBay and letting that Air access a few extra terabytes of SAN storage, especially with how expensive Apple SSD storage is ;-)
System engineer here, this, 1000 times this.
You inspired me to "downgrade" my home server with a Ryzen 7 1800x and I went with the Topton N5105. I gained hardware video transcoding and my server maxes out at 50 watts instead of 150. I built a console gaming PC with the other parts so it was a win win. I personally think seeing really low cost and low power servers is cooler, tbh. I feel like I'm actually fully utilizing my server hardware instead of a bunch of power pretty much being wasted sitting idle most of the time.
@DaftBlazer - is the board powerful enough to run Proxmox with several VMs (assuming i give it 32gb RAm and sufficient M.2 storage)
jeff gerling voice randomly is my multiverse of madness
Suddenly I want a Homeserver RUclips Discord
lmao
i didn't noticed the voices until the red owl spoke 😂😂😂😂
*geerling
@@elwinroyale*hello!
I suppose some people may not really understand the importance of power efficiency. Especially for those of us living in Europe, there is a clear cost advantage in running newer hardware that sips power compared to enterprise gear. And with the AM4 and AM5 platforms, even running ECC memory is a reality.
Not sure about Europe as a whole, I think the average electricity cost in Finland last year was like 7cents/kWh
Thought the same. In USA electricity prices are a joke compared to europe...
yes yes yes
Power is expensive in Australia too. I was running a DL585 with 48 cores and 128GB RAM a few years back and it would use $4 per day of electricity. Even the iLO would use $0.40 a day with the server off, so I had a power board I could remotely power off when not needed. I ran VMs to replicate a work environment, AD, file servers, SCVMM, Kubernetes, Ceph etc, so it was useful to have that capability. I also had a HP Microserver serving files and running some VMs, but because it only used about 30W I didn't mind leaving it on. I would consider them both to be servers.
And availability of parts is worse here.
We don't have all the cheap servers on ebay, the cheap refurbished hard drives, not to mention the space for a massive 42U rack.
Hardware heavens, Jeff Geerlings and RaidOwls voice over cameos where a brilliant move. Well done
I'm pretty sure it's 'Hardware Haven' not *Heaven btw :)
I didn't realize that. Nice move.
And thanks for pointing that out.
I thought that was Raid Owls voice. Thanks for confirming.
@@boneappletee6416 I think both could apply. A lot of the hardware that reaches his desk is prepared to die a horrific death in a dump-only to be rescued, cleaned, and put in service in what would be the equivalent of a hardware device's 'heaven' :)
and nobody recognizes f4mi? Disappointed. (jk)
That's the point of a HOME server... not an ENTERPRISE server. Great work!
If we go to source; IEEE Standard Glossary of Computer Networking Terminology says a server is "In a network, a device or computer system that is dedicated to providing specific facilities to other devices attached to the network. Contrast with: client." So by this definition any computer that can interface with other devices on the network, regardless of hardware, qualifies as a server. And if it is in a 'home' it should qualify as a home-server.
But, I mean, if RUclips commentators says it is not, who the hell IEEE think they are to disagree!!!
Just wanted to mention this definition too!
Or in other words: A server is a compute-thing which serves a service to a client.
It's about the role, the purpose, of the compute-thing which makes it a server, not the hardware used.
So, a NAS, which serves file storage over network to a client, also often called a "file server", is pretty much a server.
I think most of your audience watches your channel, just because you do those builds.
Love your videos, keep it up!
Your practical HOME server builds are why I like your channel. I like seeing the high end stuff too but your videos provide actual useful recommendations. If it serves, it's a server.
Long story short, server is a very broad term, it encapsulates any computer/electronic device that can serve information to another device through a network. A NAS *is* a server - that's what makes it different from just putting more drives in your computer, it's in the name, *network-attached*. Even if you use the smallest, simplest microcontroller to connect to the network, it's still a server, even if it only functions within a local network, the protocols used are exactly the same.
I do kinda get the "not a REAL server" mentality, despite it being obviously incorrect, because a lot of the time a prebuilt NAS can be essentially vendor-locked, limited in its functionality, not being able to function as a fully fledged traditional server, so I understand labeling those as "just a NAS" (even though they're still servers).
@@DMSBrian24I agree
Gatekeepers will always gatekeep. Usually the rattlings of the ignorant and/or the unhappy.
Great video Wolfgang. Subscribed.
There is a role for gatekeepers. Even if, in this case, it's only to signal their profound levels of ignorance. 😂
I do wonder though... I have a small form factor PC with a decent sized SSD. It's storing files for me, and it's running my Minecraft/Nextcloud. What is that machine in their eyes? 😄
Gatekeeping is good and necessary. Without gatekeeping there's no such thing as "difference", nothing has meaning, and there's no standards.
Even a Raspberry Pi Zero can be a home server. As long as it's at home and serving a service. You'll get the hardware that's best for the needs. Even data centers get the machine that's the best for the job, and not the beefiest.
Back in 2010, I was a network manager, in a hospital. We had several servers. No one would ever try to claim that they weren't "real" servers. Any one server did one of two different sets of things. Set One was "Deliver files & control who can access those files." Set Two was "Run a database engine." One of the servers also acted as a Microsoft Domain Controller & DHCP server. Plus, we had a dedicated backup server, connected to the tape drive. That's it. None of those servers had any more than a couple of Pentium II processors.
They were pretty lame, but they did the job for over 500 connected users. Mostly because almost all of the processing actually took place out on the desktop. When a user "ran a program," they were literally executing a .EXE file that was delivered to them over the network. Often, that program literally modified database files itself, using nothing but lock files to control which user was modifying which bits when. It as all very old school. And some programs accessed one of those database engines. But still, most of the processing happened at the desktop. Hell, an Apache web server does more actual work delivering a typical MySpace page than these old servers did.
But.... No one would ever try to say they weren't "real" servers.
Yup, gatekeeping has always been a big problem in the tech "community." I had one guy try to gatekeep me because I didn't write any PERL scripts. While I was the network manager of a hospital. I just chalk it up to insecurity problems, and ignore them.
I really appreciate your builds and the lengths you go to properly balance efficiency and effectiveness...
Keep up the good work!
5:02 I will also debate the notion that a "real home server" needs to run VMs. A home server is a machine that _serves_ some amount of services that is located in your home. Nothing more, nothing less. My lowly Raspberry Pi 4 is being used as a home server, with every service running as a Docker container. Is it the most capable server? No. Is it as scalable as a more complex and expensive solution? Also no. Does it serve my current needs? Absolutely it does.
Im running mini-PC with intel celeron, running ubuntu server with casaos and bunch of dockers for jellyfin tranmission client, smb share and stuff like that so i guess it's also kind of a home server even though i have no VM's or proxmox
Thanks for bringing the problem of power efficiency on the table.
People in IT do not care enough about it, however this subject will become more and more concerning in the next decades...
Also, thanks to your videos, I've realized how much hardware have improved on energy efficiency.
Anyway, it's very appreciable to watch your content, keep continuing building and bringing knowledge to the world :)
You made building a home server approachable for me when I found you some years ago. Thank you, never stop.
"I am very petty and happen to have a lot of free time on my hands" my life in a nutshell XD
What the internet lacks of is non-boasting low dollar practical computer/server builds that you present. I emphasise the word PRACTICAL, as most of us (unlike rich LTT) do need to consider the costs of setting up and running NAS/home servers. Well done Wolfgang! Keep making your videos!
Love the collabs in this video! I think you've done a great service to the community making this video. I don't see why a server cannot serve storage.
I am in the process of figuring out how I want to build my home server. Your channel is reasonable when it relates to what and how to build compared to the other channels you mentioned. Thats why a watch it! Keep up the good work!
Your videos were one of the first if not the first videos I ever watched when I got into home server. Being from the UK, my one and only priority is to build cheap and power efficient servers.
Watching your video, I build another small server using Topton motherboard and PicoPSU and I love it and has become my full-time server. With 16 LXCs and 2 VMs (Truenas and CentOS), CPU, utilisation idles around 12%.
I really enjoy your videos on smart and affordable home servers.
That's basically what I want for my apartment that has no dedicated/separate tech room: a small home server that handles backups, media, and might offer processing power if you want to run some docker containers on it or compile code, while not using too much energy, putting too much heat into the room, or being too loud.
You provide a lot of inspiration and ideas on what to buy and how to set it up, but I gotta admit I didn't settle for a system yet or buy it - but some day I will for sure.
maybe ppl have the wrong definition of what a home server really is. is a dual socket xeon v2 kit with redundant psu from ali a home server? or as mentioned LTT builds? nice that you brought up the comparison between 2023 corei3 vs 2013 xeons. i'm more with you on your power efficiency analysis and SFF wife-friendly builds and self-host/secure/backup/productivity side apps that we modest homelabers care about.
Great video. I own a synology and it’s plenty powerful to run all the services I need including ad block, plex, home bridge, and few other docker containers. It works flawlessly and never had an issue with performance. I got excited about getting a decommissioned enterprise server but didn’t because I wasn’t sure what else i would do with it except maybe sleep knowing I got one.
I really appreciate your approach to energy efficient servers, a lot of the US-based audience don’t understand the costs of running old enterprise hardware. I’ve been guilty of building on decommissioned enterprise, but I have shifted to building less power-hungry and quieter machines. One thing I would love to see from you is building these types of machines on rack-mount cases (specifically interested in a small rack that you could keep inside your office, with networking hear + a few servers, maybe more interested if they fit in a networking rack which is less deep)
i would love to see a build based on a topton nas motherboard in a flat rack-mount case.
Love the video, for me it is fun to watch the crazy projects der 8auer and LTT are doing. When it comes to the point of researching stuff for my own homelab I always come back to your channel. Because I know you won´t forget the aspect of power efficiency and lower budget limits. The balance between power consumption and pure performance is very important to me since prices for electrical power is on an alltime high in germany. Thanks for your videos!
Does it respond to network requests to process and/or serve data? If the answer is yes, then its a server. Saying that a NAS isn't a server is like saying that a square isn't a rectangle.
Great video! I spend a lot of time recently on reddit (those are words I'm not sure I should be proud of) trying to explain to first time homelabbers that they don't need to spend $2K on new AMD Ryzen multithread monsters to stream their movies and offload photos and videos from their smartphones. That they can start with a prebuilt NAS and/or a second hand enterprise mini pc for $100 from ebay. It's an uphill battle sometimes because the people you describe that absolutely believe that a prebuilt NAS is completely useless for anything BUT serving files, keep writing walls of text on how they should build out their first rackserver in excrutiating detail...
I am about to move my 18 docker containers that I run on my NAS (with a weak 4c CPU and 8GB of ram) to said six, seven year old enterprise mini pc. And I expect that to be a big upgrade that will hold me over for the next few years. Now I might add addtional mini pc's to build a cluster of them. But that is a whole other thing.
"trying to explain to first time homelabbers"
oh god i feel you, especially if its in r/selfhosted
They are just a buch of fanatics that doesn't want to learn neither understand what they are doing. I talk it a lot about it already in r/selfhosted but my server doesn't use VMs (and consider them to be useless bloat) , and for a lot of them they consider its not a server even tho i can run literally thing easier because AUR (it user arch btw), i also don't use docker but that because want easy configuration, easy interaction between some of my app and lazyness
Lol.. love the group of RUclipsrs you tapped to read comments. Hardware Haven? Jeff Geerling? Well done!!
I don't care for gatekeepers either.. I mean, Isn't a NAS a specialized and scaled file 'SERVER'? When was that 'service' eliminated as a 'service' provided by servers? And seriously, I'd immediately terminate the services of a contractor who tried to sell me on a dual processor Epyc server to provide email and file storage to an office of 4 real estate agents. Now, it might be seriously cool to have one sitting in my basement running nothing but Jellyfin, piHole and in instance of TruNAS.. but it would absolutely be overkill. Until I can afford that kind of power draw on a daily basis though, I'll stick with my i3-4130 idling at 19 watts.. and I'll keep calling it a Server.
I actually agree with wolfgang, the difference between the 2 in a homelab environment has become defunct since you can run either on just about anything these days, technically speaking you'd be hard pressed to distinguish the difference even in an enterprise environment since in my career almost 25 years ive seen repurposed thin clients being used in the field, hell i run a shucked, repurposed mobile workstation (laptop) in an aftermarket 1U rack mount case running ubuntu server and its currently responsible for 1 part of my self hosted services
I use a very similar definition as you on my channel. For me, a home server has to have virtualization at least. My server is also an old thin client PC, btw.
Very, very cool that you got your YT content creator friends to do the voice over for the 'comments' 😁😁😁 I thought you had some really amazing voice-changer AI tweaked to do that for you. But, no, those voices were real. Super cool !! (BTW, I am still hoping you'll make a video about a Intel N100 server-build)
Your channel has been a big help for me in getting lower power use, without losing too much in performance and features. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
Totally agree that any simple machine can be used as a home lab server so long it gets the job done.
My home server, a 4-core, 4GB RAM mini PC 🔥😂, has been reliably providing answers to my queries for almost four years. Running various Docker containers, including my website, Jellyfin, and numerous other services, it operates flawlessly.
However, I've recently upgraded to another mini PC featuring a Ryzen 9 processor with 8 cores, 16 threads, and 64GB of RAM. I intend to utilize this system for at least a decade 😂😂."
Now that's the way to defend practical, high efficiency, low-power consumption, home lab construction. I appreciate your videos for exactly that reason. Kudos on the Tech-tube celebrity comment voice-overs as well. Happy holidays and i look forward to more of your great content in 2024!
"However, I am very petty and also happen to have a lot of free time on my hands" already you have my respect
I think most of your audience watches your channel, just because you do those builds.
Love your videos, keep the high efficiency low power home servers coming!
A server offers a SERVICE to other devices, whether it be a connection to printers, storage, some type of compute workload, webpages, whatever - it primarily 'gives'. a client essentially only 'takes'...yes a Win11 PC CAN also share files or a printer but it would only be a server if that's its PRIMARY role...so yea, a NAS is a server. Period. Its primary role is to give. I mean no one would argue that a database server isn't a server, it IS, and YET it is basically just a NAS for a vey specific type of data. There's no argument to be made - only a question - "In it's primary role does the device 'give' or 'take'?"
Ironically this video convinced me to watch your Perfect Home Server video, I saw it in my recommended video before but I thought "nah, I'm just looking for NAS, not a server", but since some people consider it "just" a NAS, maybe it's not overkill for what I'm wanting to build.
I use 4th gen intel NUCs (4 machines) as my home servers. Those work great have multiple services on them, including Proxmox as hypervisor. I fully support the idea, that servers could be low budget and low power and somewhat low end hw
"...however, I am very petty and happen to have a lot of free time on my hands." You just earned yourself a subscribe! Stay petty, my friend!
It's so scary to recognize every signle youtuber voice in the vid without seeing any source
Those power-efficient home server builds of yours are precisely why I keep visiting your channel. You've got excellent content ideas, presentation and I appreciate your videos!
A NAS is a server.... A server is a network device which serves content or services. What would a NAS be other than a server?
One of the best videos on the subject of home servers with a lot of truth in it. Thank you.
0:14 isn’t that f4mi’s voice!?!?
I am here exactly for thencontent you do. Building simple, cheap and most importantly low power home servers. Thanks for the effort!
even if your cell phone runs an app that another user can connect to, its a server
Dude... you had me at 'very petty and happen to have a lot of time on my hands'. Oh, and nice work getting Raid Owl to read at least one of the comments!!
I heard JeffGeerling's voice and immediately recognize it
Dude, this 100%. The gate keeping is so strong in this hobby it surprised me a little. Same things with trying Linux, no matter what you do, someone will say that you're doing it wrong
I mean that's only because so much can go wrong with Linux with few guardrails. But that's what we enjoy about it. That and not being a Microsoft or Apple data mine.
It’s crazy that people even dare to call you untrustworthy … Everytime I watch a video from you, I enjoy how well researched, thought-through and well-argued the conent is. Thank you for all the inspiration, shared knowledge, fun and the work you put into this. Dont think about those who always find something to complain about. Keep doing your thing :)
I've finally finished building my home server with your help and I just want to thank you again for the content you produce, I got to learn a lot from this and have fun while doing it :)
Completely on par with you. A sever is something or someone who do a service. A public employee is a server. Any hardware that serves something to other machines or itself is a server. For example when you install Appserve or just MySQL in your laptop, now your laptop is a server. About the hardware, people should be wise enough to see what you are trying to achieve here. Power efficiency, low noise and even room temperature friendiness is a must in a real home server. Nowadays people think that the only way to have a server at home is to buy the best decomissioned enterprise computer money you can buy and place it at home. Doing that usually backfires like when you buy a used but ready to fly Cessna and now you are trying to park that thing in your parking space at the building where you live. When you see channels like L1, STH or even LTT, the presenter does not pay the multiple associated bills from his pocket. Those are full blown bussineses that happens to do YT content creation and gained an audience strong enough to pay those high prices of electric service, dedicated channel internet services, offices and employees.
As someone who is looking into the low end budget low energy area, chances are I need both a Server and a NAS, so the fact your videos offer the best of both is exactly what I want!
Wolfgang, what and how do you setup grafana? I like to see my system power consumption and electricity costs! What do I need?
My server is old ITX board with AMD E350 paired with 4GB of RAM and 8TB HDD. I'm running 7 docker containers on it and OMV bare metal. I haven't had any single problem in past few years and it serves me just fine. People usually go way overkill on their servers, I've ran RPi 4 few years ago as NAS with few docker containers and it worked just fine. It was cheap and barely used any power.
Your builds are way more interesting to me than LTT or any other RUclipsrs builds because people usually don't care about power efficiency or noise, they just build normal PC and stick bunch of HDDs in it without optimizing anything.
I specifically watch your Videos because it gave me the perspective that a home server can be something small and efficient, as energy prices are quite expensive here in Germany. Additionally, like you mentioned, you typically don't need all the processing power except for maybe the occasional game-server, and these newer CPUs on consumer motherboards are way more efficient systems than a 10-year-old ear-damaging leafblower in a rack
I've come across and watched a few videos of yours in the past. I just watched this whole video and because of your tact & class and handling of this situation, you've got a subscriber for life.
I have a pretty decent 11th gen Intel build, I also have a 6-year-old q-nep, and a latte panda that I'm trying to consolidate everything into more efficient home server build. Server build. The qnap works, but there's a few more advanced things that I want to do that I feel like the software limits me. So I'm in the process of learning how to build out the latte panda as an unrated server.
I'll go back through your videos and see if there's anything I could utilize. Keep up the great work!
Exactly. The hardware needed to do the job(s), low energy usage, and preferably a small form case. You got it!
I 100% relate to the "I'm very petty and have a lot of free time on my hands" comment! I love the channel, perspective, and ideas, keep the great work going! Thank you!
I appreciate your take. I've seen others go the used enterprise route, and you definitely pay a premium for it.
My first server was a retired gaming system that had a dual core athlon. My second one was the same, this time a 4 core ivy-bridge CPU. I decided I needed a bunch more storage, but that even used enterprise gear was too expensive. So I got a Fractal Node 804, which can support 10 HDDs without having to buy any extra hardware, and built an AMD system using a 3600. That was far cheaper and better on price performance than anything else at the time. I've again outgrown that server, and now I use an old netapp disk shelf attached to the same computer, but it served me well for years.
People will say, "You MUST use ECC." You don't need it.
People will say, "You need hardware virtualization support." You don't.
People will say, "An UPS is required." Also not true.
Many people use computers every day without this things. There is no compromise to their data. There is no net negative on how their computer operates. These features are nice to have, at scale, in an enterprise. Most people don't need them, and most consumer hardware can be more than adequate.
thank you wolfgang for taking the time to answer the most basic of questions. i find when you ask "experts" basic questions(as you stated) they just brush them off. i can't learn anything if info is gatekept and them being on there high horse with non helping attitude doesn't help either. looking forward to more of your stuff.
Thanks for sticking to basics, old tech, checking your actual CPU load & what works to get the job done.
Plus, good to explain what a NAS is. If one is serious about it, yes, it's a different machine, just for handling storage that reconstructs data when drives fail & you replace them. The other stuff on too is extra services that are "nice".
I'm looking to do a project for general home build that automatically backs up my devices with no fuss
Any that servs is a "server" if people want to be petty. A toaster running Pi-hole is a server. It doesn't have to be some crazy mainframe filling rooms in a dedicated space. I'll prefer anything energy efficient that is quiet, over headaches from my power bill
I love this. Back in the 2000's i worked a lot with network administration. One place I worked ran with large Dell and Compaq servers costing thousands and thousands of dollars. What did all those servers do? They provided network drives to the company that owned it.... lots and lots and lots of harddrives attached and pretty much notning else. Would anyone say that those machines, running Windows NT and Windows 2000 Server weren't servers? Nope. A server is a computer or system that provides resources, data, services, or programs to other computers over a network.... and that's it. Great video!
You actually made a real point here Wolfgang.
My homelab actually has 2 parts: one running the stuff I need at home and which is 24/7 on (storage server, router, very small machine having enough juice to run a DC and a minecraft server based on a very old Core i5 I recovered from a thrown away machine. The thing has a solid 32Gb of RAM. It litterally runs my home on a day to day basis and when it fails, a lot of things go south in the house. But it never did so far. And the day it does, I have some old laptop laying around with a bit less of memory (Minecraft server consumes most, but that is not critical). The only thing I gotta do is connecting the 2 hard drives holding the VM's to it and I am up and running again.
Besides of that I got this kind of almost enterprise level machine I built myself based on server grade components: Xeon scalable, 256Gb of RAM, SDD's provide the storage for the VM's. But the thing is: i only spin it up when I need to test a specific infrastructure for work or for studying purposes. Meaning: it is off for most of the time (it has BMC/IPMI on the motherboard, so I can spin it up when I need it. Takes less than 5 min to boot and bring online all of the VMs on it. And even on that machine I made a sin when I hear most of the youtubers: it runs on HyperV for crying out loud.... (did make this choice as it is almost zero maintenance and combined with Microsoft VMM, building a new VM is basically a couple of clicks.) This is the kind of machine a LOT of people think you need to have at home. But they forget that this kind of machines is used to host large database servers, hold VM's for software development and capable of compile large portions of source code in a minimum of time. FOr studying purposes e.g. I need to be able to run Sharepoint server, SCCM, WSUS (yes, I am a MS guy). But guess you all get the point: this is for stuff about 99% of the people do not need at all... So why throw thousands of dollars or Euros in it if you just use it to host a plex server, some photos and 3 or 4 VMs.
My take: if you have something between 500 and 1000 euros you can build ALL of the homeserver you need with a ridiculous amount of RAM and redundant storage and a decent processor...
Me personally, if I friends ask me to build a homeserver for them (happened a couple of times) this channel is my go to place, and also the NAS Compares channel when it comes to storage {SDDs and HDDs)
I really had a laugh when I heard Jeffs voice on one of the comments.I downsized my i3 machine in the past weeks and now use a n100 mini pc for most homeserver actions. The 4K transcoding on the GPU works also great and with so little wattage which is crazy.
Agreed! A NAS is just one thing a server can do. After all, a NAS or a server is just a computer that does what you tell it to do.
I like your videos, we need more like them. I need a home server that are power efficiency and quite. My home server is on my desk, running proxmox with vm.
I tend to agree. Even tho' I (we?) all like more power, it can become a bit of "mine's bigger". Computers have taken over where roaring cars and tyres screeching used to do. Or maybe it's geeks vs hoons. While I like main machine to be powerful enough, I also run old machines till the die. So the more useful ways to use old stuff, the better. Rock on.
Hearing the other RUclipsrs read, the comments was a nice touch. Good job.
Really enjoyed the video and the voiceover cameos at the beginning.
I really like your presentations, even though I'm just starting to learn about servers and NAS related tech. My only goal is to build & maintain my own Home Lab/VLAN/Server/NAS type of system to store security cam video, backups of my home theater library, some home automation and common office networking, all behind a VPN and firewall that can stop ads, tracking, data collection without any cloud services and a minimal amount of Wi-Fi as well as the amount of battery back-up needed to maintain this system for 10 hours of power failure. Needless to say, I have a lot to learn. Just getting to the point of knowing what features to incorporate took a while, but worth the effort to begin catching up with what's available.
it's precisely because you (and the others you credited at the end like Jeff) do interesting things in interesting ways that I watch you all - I don't need 192 threads on the latest threadripper to run pihole or HomeAssistant... there's more skill and ingenuity trying to achieve more complex workloads in a smaller power envelope, or turning someone else's garbage into something useful (like Hardware Haven). If I had a serious workload, I'd be using a data centre not a cupboard or my garage!
I absolutely love the collaboration with all the other great RUclips content creators! It's great to see everyone support each other, including the content creators! Another great video and I hope to see more little colabs like this!
Any device that can "serve" is a "server", there for a NAS that can "serve" files is a server. Now you can pack all functionalities into 1 beefy device, and call it a home server. Or you can decentralize things, so things break less easy, and things are easier to replace. Like I did with my home build central audio system which runs from a NanoPi NEO which is far from beefy. A Home Sever should be a device that is at the center point, of controlling/serving things in you house. So in a very decentralized system, the NAS with a little bit extra juice can actually be the best candidate to be called home server.
5:11 i need this. Do you have any tutorial about this. How do you route all your network and how do you secure your network etc.?
I have a home server that is just a 2010s era recycled HP. Just like you pointed out in your video, the stats for my home server doesn't compare to the NAS builds that you have.
And yet, with all that, I can run k3s with LDAP (still building out the environment).
Wild how people treat what is needed for a home server.
I use Power efficient Hardware for my Homeserver(s) for over a decade now. I started with used enterprise hardware (Xeon), but when the first integrated Intel Atom Boards came around 2007/2008, I gave those a try, first out of pure curiosity whats possible on those... they were problematic if you used windows, but using linux, they could do (almost) all the things I used the server mainly for. I remember using the Xeon For remote 3D-rendering (Terragen), which was a disaster on the atom, as one could guess. But thats simply a usecase that needs beefy hardware. Sharing files, running Bittorrent and Syncing-Jobs isn't, so the Low Power CPUs stayed for those "always on" machines. Today I use an Intel Celeron J3160, which is also 7 years old by now, but I don't see a reason to upgrade. - So yeah, keep the cost and Power efficient content coming, I think its way more interesting to see things that could make sense for me, and are actually affordable.
as an Software developer I feel a bit of anger when people forget what a term means and where it comes from. Server from to serve is a role/task description.
I have refered to a lot as a server (because thats what they did) from phones streaming music to others in the room for sillent discos to rack mount pc's(more presise description of what people think of as a server)
I'm even surprised that someone could pay attention to the naming. To me it was absolutely clear and I name my home server as a "home server". Who cares?!
Thanks for your videos Wolfgang! I learned a lot from them.
I've built my home server thanks to your high quality videos, so there is no question for me. It's not the hardware but what you do with, that makes a computer a server.
keep marching forward bro, all the best for your Hardwork
I am interested in learning about a system (NAS/server I don't care) that provides a backup service that includes protection against ransomware or network infection. This would require a backup that pulls data, blocks external access and will not permit execution of files. At present, I do this with a 3T HD air gapped on a usb connection. I only connect the drive when I want to make a backup or recover a file. There has to be a better way.
Enjoyed the celebrity voices! If any of your guests are curious as to whether it was worth their effort; while I recognized Raid Owl, Jeff Geerling and Colten (HH) right; I was unaware of "f4mi" and "alexktz" until the credits rolled, and have now subscribed to both. Thanks and a Merry Christmas to all!
Good and informative video. I like that you answered the comments with a sense of humor.
I was running my home server on a Core 2 Quad for about two years, through 2021-2022, worked wonderfully. Others came to me with electricity usage concerns, so I got convinced into moving it all to a 2011 macbook with a dead GPU, no display, no CD drive, etc.
That solution's been a bit more limited in capacity,moved from a 1tb drive to a 750 but it's worked and is still what I'm using today.
I did recently pick up a complete 6700K and 32GB ram system for free, I plan on getting a NAS style enclosure to replace its case, filling it out with 2tb SSDs in a RAID5, and setting up my next server setup around that. To be honest, it's wildly overkill, a 6700K on a home server that mostly just runs a NextCloud instance, but I got it, I got nothing else for it, so to server use it goes.
Thanks a ton for all you share. Keep them vids rolling. Server = a role.
Jesus christ... There is always gonna be that little collection of "Actually..."-people that live in a basement, never go outside and lives in a bubble. Good informational video like always Wolfgang. Keep up the great work.
Preach brother! I couldn't agree with you more. Times have changed.... some people and their terminology haven't quite kept the pace.
Man ur server builds are great! All of ur vids are and thought me alot thanks for that i got here in the Netherlands my masters degree thanks largely to ur vids
Du hast wirklich sehr schön ausgeteilt in diesem Video :)
Great stuff. The end you sounded like Scooter: "to Westbam, Marusha, Stevie Mason, The Mystic Man, DJ Dick, Carl Cox, The Hooligan, Cosmic, Kid Paul, Dag, Mike Van Dyke" 🎵