I found something very helpful to browse quicker through many artists or albums etc. This is not really explained in the manual. I am talking about the "M"-button, which is button nr. 7 in the description of the front buttons in the manual. The front button on the left, next to the wheel and the little blue light. You have to be in "Category"-mode. First you have to choose one of the categories for example "Artist", then you have to "long press" the "M"-button... An alphabet will be displayed and with the arrow-buttons you can you can jump from letter to letter, in both directions, you can press or long press to go through the alphabet.
I hate touch screens and have come to hate my cell phone distraction device. It is nice to wake up in the morning and not have to turn on my phone for music. Also nice not to pay $500 for a quality device. Touching the power button for volume buttons is stupid but I can live with it. I have an iPod with the mechanical wheel. Even an old Sansa. They both nailed the perfect user interface. Surfans has no clue, this UI is so clunky. But it is still way better than a touch screen and I no longer need to carry my phone around. It is wonderful for my Classical Music Collection. As of Oct 2022, mine shipped with USB 2 but does not work with the 60 Watt 19V chargers. It needs a 5 Volt slow charger. I Hope more budget mechanical UI players come to market for competition. Great review without time wasting fluff. Do not need to spend 5 minutes watching someone open a box.
Hey man Appreciate the video. These days everyone just tells me to subscribe to this or that streaming service but I like what I like and I already own most of my favorite artists. I have stuff like old remixes from websites that don't exist anymore or CD's bought from a faire that the artist never put online. Stuff I'd never hear if I subscribed to spotify. And with my ipod dying and apple discontinuing the ipod altogether I've been looking for a replacement. This looks really promising and I appreciate the direct list of pros and cons.
feels like a wave of change is happening. im 18 so i cant say i remember how it was back then, but i can say i wish i did and im starting to look more and more towards minimalism and removing too much technology, to "get back" to the most natural lifestyle
Dang it it's always something :D Have to use the power button to adjust the volume/pause?? If my old iPod had bluetooth, wouldn't even be considering this, but despite the absurdity this does seem like the probable option for a dedicated audio player...
i just wish it had even the slightest bit of waterproofing and not a glass back. would also be nice if the lock was a switch and not a button. but i does what i want honestly.
Right after I saw this video I saw a thumbnail with an eerily similar player called the 'hifi walker H2' which has the exact same button layout, click wheel, UI... Either there's clones of some original device or it's some white label MP3 player that's just being sold to ppl willing to slap their brand and packaging on it. Kind of a bummer.
I've seen it on Amazon... I suspect the form factor of these units were not patented so it's probably free reign. I've seen similar cloning via guitar effect pedals.
I still use my old iPod, updated with a 128 GB flash card. I have around 12,000 files on it. It is great to have all of my music/podcast/movie files with me, but as you mentioned scrolling through all of those files is a pain (although my iPod does have a very basic search capability). I ended up getting an iPod Mini with a 4 GB flash card to use while out and about. It holds around 1000 files of my favorite music, which is perfect when waiting for an appointment. For less than $30 it was a great deal!
I bought this and returned it after a couple of weeks The design and sound quality are really nice. The software on it is horrendous. It would just freeze and need a restart numerous times I used it. Also, the whole UI feels like something from 2002. I would look elsewhere for a quality DAP player.
I just bought one of these and bought the wrong size micro SD card, as it's too big for the slot. I don't know which size to get in a 128gb format factor. Can anyone help me?
Intentionally... I hate bluetooth lol. I also noticed it wouldn't sync w/ my car's bluetooth, nor a portable speaker of mine... Maybe this unit needs a firmware update, though I know my car's system is rather finicky.
This is a budget player after all, and considering that, the sound quality a build is quite amazing, but it certainly can't stand up against an Apple product in terms of user interface. Sorry for your disappointment. Apple forces you to sync with iTunes whenever you want to add or even delete anything. I love SIM cards and their amazing flexibility, but to each his own as they say.
@@alternatingbitmusic I dislike apple products usually but they've hit the nail on the head with the iPod. Oh wait, they've discontinued the cunt cos they want you to buy an iPhone. Fuck off, I will never.
I also prefer the old style interfaces. They tend to have much longer battery life - Most new expensive DAP's use Android these days, and Android is sadly not good at running on extremely low power like it used to be, so the android based players tend to suck the battery down quite fast.
Sufrans, please release a newer, updated version of the F20 (ie F21 or F20 Gen 2) with an improved scrolling wheel, improved interface, improved chipset & longer battery life. Thanks.
@@alternatingbitmusic I know. I just thought I'd put the request out there just in case. It's been at least 6 or 7 years since the F20 was released. An update is long overdue.
It's almost like the software was nailed years ago by the iPod. If you started scrolling a long list it would start jumping letters. There has not really been anything close to that yet in the third-party market. When somebody does that they're going to be the top seller. There's a reason iPods are still going for a good price is used. It's nice to see that there's finally some non-audio file cheaper? alternatives.
How is the shuffle music option, I noticed my android phone music player sucks under the shuffle...ipod mastered the shuffle option if I had a 1000 songs Ipod would start from 1 and shuffle every song in the library until reaching 1000 songs while my android will repeat songs already played in shuffle 😑
Thinking of getting this. Curious how well the genre browsing works. I had a Sony Walkman MP3 player (~$80) years ago that did this very well. All the budget players I've had since don't implement this right. I'm fastidious about managing my metadata, because sometimes I just want to listen to classical, other times rock, etc. If the Surfans does this well, I'd grab it immediately. I've considered getting the Sony again, but they don't have much capacity (usually 8GB) and--for whatever reason--don't let you extend with an SD card.
Hey i might be missing the point here, but the number under the bars on the EQ 5:30 light up (yellow) for which one is highlighted but it is a small thing to notice.
Nice review. I just bought one to avoid using my phone all the time and to avoid carrying such a big device.I will just be playing 320 mp3s too. I wonder if the volume will be active on blue tooth headphones? I will try that out.
i still have several MD and HIMD players and still love the format and the richness of their sound. amazing considering ATRAC is a compressed format. i have a FIIO X1 that i also use to play my AAC 320KBPS . music files. i am always looking for a back up DAP in case my FIIO dies.
This looks interesting. I've read this has gapless playback, is that correct? Also is it possible to connect to a Windows PC and have it appear like another drive (for dragging and dropping files) or do you have to use the software?
I just assumed the Wallpaper feature was either an unfinished part of their system or pointless gimmick, only allowing you to display the default, so i just don't use it. It has such a tiny footprint anyway.
Possibly, though ironic that to adjust volume you have to fire up the screen which drains more battery than if you could adjusted the volume screenless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
While I haven't clocked specific runtimes, my overall sense is it is sufficient. Not impressively long though not bad either; average. Of course, much will depend on screen use and brightness.
The fact that u can't use the volume in its sleep mode might be a huge problem. Thank you for reviewing this, going to figure out if this DAP is worth it or not.
I noticed one workaround for this would be to set the idle shutdown time to the maximum duration which is 2 hours. Of course, that would mean the screen stays on while in your pocket, draining the battery more, but you could also set the screen to the lowest brightness setting. Just a thought.
I found something very helpful to browse quicker through many artists or albums etc. This is not really explained in the manual.
I am talking about the "M"-button, which is button nr. 7 in the description of the front buttons in the manual. The front button on the left, next to the wheel and the little blue light.
You have to be in "Category"-mode. First you have to choose one of the categories for example "Artist", then you have to "long press" the "M"-button... An alphabet will be displayed and with the arrow-buttons you can you can jump from letter to letter, in both directions, you can press or long press to go through the alphabet.
What an excellent find!! I wish I could add this alphabet shortcut to my video - thanks for sharing.
@@alternatingbitmusic
You could pin their comment. That would make it appear as the first comment when you scroll down
Whoever was in charge of writing the user manual at Surfans should be unceremoniously fired
I hate touch screens and have come to hate my cell phone distraction device. It is nice to wake up in the morning and not have to turn on my phone for music. Also nice not to pay $500 for a quality device.
Touching the power button for volume buttons is stupid but I can live with it.
I have an iPod with the mechanical wheel. Even an old Sansa. They both nailed the perfect user interface. Surfans has no clue, this UI is so clunky. But it is still way better than a touch screen and I no longer need to carry my phone around. It is wonderful for my Classical Music Collection. As of Oct 2022, mine shipped with USB 2 but does not work with the 60 Watt 19V chargers. It needs a 5 Volt slow charger.
I Hope more budget mechanical UI players come to market for competition.
Great review without time wasting fluff. Do not need to spend 5 minutes watching someone open a box.
Hey man Appreciate the video. These days everyone just tells me to subscribe to this or that streaming service but I like what I like and I already own most of my favorite artists. I have stuff like old remixes from websites that don't exist anymore or CD's bought from a faire that the artist never put online. Stuff I'd never hear if I subscribed to spotify. And with my ipod dying and apple discontinuing the ipod altogether I've been looking for a replacement. This looks really promising and I appreciate the direct list of pros and cons.
Nice to hear. I don't stream music beyond sampling... even the digital stuff I must "own" via download. Clouds come & go with the weather.
You'll dance to anything by Book of Love. I have one of these things and got it because I was sick of my phone as well. Solid product.
feels like a wave of change is happening. im 18 so i cant say i remember how it was back then, but i can say i wish i did and im starting to look more and more towards minimalism and removing too much technology, to "get back" to the most natural lifestyle
Dang it it's always something :D Have to use the power button to adjust the volume/pause?? If my old iPod had bluetooth, wouldn't even be considering this, but despite the absurdity this does seem like the probable option for a dedicated audio player...
Have you looked at the Walkman? I have the NW-A45. Little more money but has some of the features you were looking for.
i just wish it had even the slightest bit of waterproofing
and not a glass back.
would also be nice if the lock was a switch and not a button.
but i does what i want honestly.
Right after I saw this video I saw a thumbnail with an eerily similar player called the 'hifi walker H2' which has the exact same button layout, click wheel, UI...
Either there's clones of some original device or it's some white label MP3 player that's just being sold to ppl willing to slap their brand and packaging on it. Kind of a bummer.
I've seen it on Amazon... I suspect the form factor of these units were not patented so it's probably free reign. I've seen similar cloning via guitar effect pedals.
Great review
Thanks for the video. I got one but I am having difficulty creating Playlist and transferring my music.
Supports creating playlist via M3U, please check via www.surfans.net for instruction.
I still use my old iPod, updated with a 128 GB flash card. I have around 12,000 files on it. It is great to have all of my music/podcast/movie files with me, but as you mentioned scrolling through all of those files is a pain (although my iPod does have a very basic search capability). I ended up getting an iPod Mini with a 4 GB flash card to use while out and about. It holds around 1000 files of my favorite music, which is perfect when waiting for an appointment. For less than $30 it was a great deal!
I bought this and returned it after a couple of weeks The design and sound quality are really nice. The software on it is horrendous. It would just freeze and need a restart numerous times I used it. Also, the whole UI feels like something from 2002. I would look elsewhere for a quality DAP player.
While I agree that the UI is dated, it doesn't bother me and I never have had a freeze. I suspect you may have had a randomly bad unit.
I just bought one of these and bought the wrong size micro SD card, as it's too big for the slot. I don't know which size to get in a 128gb format factor. Can anyone help me?
I gotta buy this someday the signal price is very high
You left out the bluetooth feature.
Intentionally... I hate bluetooth lol. I also noticed it wouldn't sync w/ my car's bluetooth, nor a portable speaker of mine... Maybe this unit needs a firmware update, though I know my car's system is rather finicky.
Can these be attached to a car stereo system
Yes
Can I straight-out swap the memory card that's included?
I covered this at 1:08. Yes.
@@alternatingbitmusic thank you. i did not have time to watch all of it. I just skimmed most part.
@@andre785 Sadly, that's what most people do. Everyone wants :15 second "shorts" nowadays.
does surfans work with airpods pro?
I never use blue tooth, sorry.
My 10 year old ipod touch broke so I bought this and it feels like a step down. I sent it back, it almost made me angry how poor the interface is.
This is a budget player after all, and considering that, the sound quality a build is quite amazing, but it certainly can't stand up against an Apple product in terms of user interface. Sorry for your disappointment. Apple forces you to sync with iTunes whenever you want to add or even delete anything. I love SIM cards and their amazing flexibility, but to each his own as they say.
@@alternatingbitmusic I dislike apple products usually but they've hit the nail on the head with the iPod. Oh wait, they've discontinued the cunt cos they want you to buy an iPhone. Fuck off, I will never.
I also prefer the old style interfaces. They tend to have much longer battery life - Most new expensive DAP's use Android these days, and Android is sadly not good at running on extremely low power like it used to be, so the android based players tend to suck the battery down quite fast.
Apparently the mechen m30 has a better battery life than the surfans
Sufrans, please release a newer, updated version of the F20 (ie F21 or F20 Gen 2) with an improved scrolling wheel, improved interface, improved chipset & longer battery life. Thanks.
I doubt they're reading the comments of this video on my channel, but hey, we can only hope lol. Thanks for watching.
@@alternatingbitmusic I know. I just thought I'd put the request out there just in case. It's been at least 6 or 7 years since the F20 was released. An update is long overdue.
It's almost like the software was nailed years ago by the iPod. If you started scrolling a long list it would start jumping letters. There has not really been anything close to that yet in the third-party market. When somebody does that they're going to be the top seller. There's a reason iPods are still going for a good price is used. It's nice to see that there's finally some non-audio file cheaper? alternatives.
I like the wheel for volume changes when you hit the + or - and then go to the wheel.
I was surprised that you had モーニング娘。on your list. That brings back old memories for me. Thank you for the good review of this great little unit.
From which group is it?
How is the shuffle music option, I noticed my android phone music player sucks under the shuffle...ipod mastered the shuffle option if I had a 1000 songs Ipod would start from 1 and shuffle every song in the library until reaching 1000 songs while my android will repeat songs already played in shuffle 😑
I'm sorry but I never use the shuffle feature... I'm an album kind of guy.
@@alternatingbitmusic K thanks
Thinking of getting this. Curious how well the genre browsing works. I had a Sony Walkman MP3 player (~$80) years ago that did this very well. All the budget players I've had since don't implement this right. I'm fastidious about managing my metadata, because sometimes I just want to listen to classical, other times rock, etc. If the Surfans does this well, I'd grab it immediately.
I've considered getting the Sony again, but they don't have much capacity (usually 8GB) and--for whatever reason--don't let you extend with an SD card.
Hey i might be missing the point here, but the number under the bars on the EQ 5:30 light up (yellow) for which one is highlighted but it is a small thing to notice.
Good catch! I had not noticed - thanks (=
Nice review. I just bought one to avoid using my phone all the time and to avoid carrying such a big device.I will just be playing 320 mp3s too. I wonder if the volume will be active on blue tooth headphones? I will try that out.
I've noticed I could not connect my JBL 410's or 710's headphones to it. Which is rather disappoinment
Thank you so much for this review. I was very curious about this device.
What is its batterylife like?
So far so good - I think the hours are listed somewhere online. Like with most products you don't really know until several years have passed.
YAY! MD! loved that format but now i use a FIIO X1 ALWAYS looking for a back up DAP if the FIIO dies on me . will keep this one in mind
I used to own a couple of Sony Vaio Pocket VGF-AP1Ls... Those were slick as hell and felt good in the hand with a futuristic design.
i still have several MD and HIMD players and still love the format and the richness of their sound. amazing considering ATRAC is a compressed format. i have a FIIO X1 that i also use to play my AAC 320KBPS . music files. i am always looking for a back up DAP in case my FIIO dies.
Yeah, ATRAC + a HiFi digital amp with custom EQ even made MDLP sound amazing to me.
Where is the back button.
This looks interesting. I've read this has gapless playback, is that correct? Also is it possible to connect to a Windows PC and have it appear like another drive (for dragging and dropping files) or do you have to use the software?
I'm pretty sure it is - I would have remembered if it isn't gapless, that's for sure.
Are you able to do play lists on it?
How do you change and load the wallpaper on this unit? It's not in the instruction manual for it =/
I just assumed the Wallpaper feature was either an unfinished part of their system or pointless gimmick, only allowing you to display the default, so i just don't use it. It has such a tiny footprint anyway.
This is so cool
Is it easy to replace battery? My player's battery just died.
I can't open the cover to replace it. There is no screw on the player.
No idea. It looks like it's not meant to be opened. I actually bought a backup unit for this very reason.
I think they did the two button volume thing to save battery so you don't accidentally touch the volume buttons
Possibly, though ironic that to adjust volume you have to fire up the screen which drains more battery than if you could adjusted the volume screenless ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@alternatingbitmusic you have to adjust volume on an ipod classic by waking the screen so really it doesn't matter
how does this compare to the M30 HIFI MP3 PLAYER ?
Wouldn't know - I don't own it. Sonically it's probably the same, I imagine.
4:47 they did it to replace/ mimic the hold button that doesn’t exist.
That's fine if it's an OPTION, but sadly it's a forced handicap.
Can you still auto play albums and playlists or does it play music alphabetically?
Thanks for your review. How about the battery life?
While I haven't clocked specific runtimes, my overall sense is it is sufficient. Not impressively long though not bad either; average. Of course, much will depend on screen use and brightness.
@@alternatingbitmusic Good stuff! Thanks again.
Hey, thanks a lot for your video! Just a question, is there a way to "lock" the player, so it doesn't turn on and off all the time? Thank you again :)
Probably a weird question, but does the playback software allow single track, or does it automatically continue to play through the library/playlist?
I'm pretty sure the manual is online, but in my experience it seems like it ALWAYS wants to keep playing unless you hit pause.
I just got mine today - how difficult is your scroll wheel to turn? I feel like there's a bit of resistance when I move mine
Resistance is fut-- I mean, better than too loose. It'll probably loosen over time. I tend to use the buttons mostly myself.
I WANT IT!
Great, thorough review - Thanks!
Hi , great video . Just a quick question if you don't mind ? .... Is the sound on this as good or better than an Ipod ? Thank you.
I've never owned an iPod so I wouldn't know, but if the iPod has lossless ability and custom EQ then they should be similar?
@Geeky Ninja You lost me at Bluetooth headphones lol. I've never cared of such so I can't comment further.
@Geeky Ninja have you tried customizing your EQ settings? Have you set the output level to high? What bitrate is your source material?
Blue tooth?
yes, but cant get it to work with my car radio
six months later, does the scrollwheel and the buttons still work?
Yes to both! Though I don't use the wheel that often. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for this! Does it remember where you left off? If it shuts off in the middle of a song does it pick back up where you left off?
absolutely! Very important indeed.
Where can you download lossless content to play on this device?
sounds like you need to SEEK a SOUL, hope you catch my drift
The fact that u can't use the volume in its sleep mode might be a huge problem. Thank you for reviewing this, going to figure out if this DAP is worth it or not.
I noticed one workaround for this would be to set the idle shutdown time to the maximum duration which is 2 hours. Of course, that would mean the screen stays on while in your pocket, draining the battery more, but you could also set the screen to the lowest brightness setting. Just a thought.
Have they addressed this issue now? Thank you
@@Rulon-bo1ig They haven't but I ended up buying it. I say its worth it but it takes some time getting use to I guess