Marine vet, current LE, and spent some time as part of the instructor cadre for the Precision Rifle Workshop out of Denver. Honor grads were almost always former military guys in the LE classes. The mentality they bring to classes is usually a cut above the rest of the students. I loved what you said about that 10% becoming 100% of your purpose in the moment. It's so damn true. Yeah police work is 99% percent of the time doing something other than shooting, but that 1% is what will matter most when the time comes. Learn from everybody and to hell with what the media will think of your "militarized training." Bartlett didn't even like calling them snipers on the Law Enforcement side.
Thank you for saying this. Having been to a Snipercraft class with Bartlett himself, I'll just say, "No, thank you very much!" Never again. This was very professionally said. Thank you.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPERgood to know what side of the fence you guys are on, really disappointed. So OP, skillsets and the monopoly on violence is apparently solely for the State and its agents, not the peasantry. 👍
Having recieved training via FBI HRT a state LE agency and a private firm (all US military snipers) I can tell you that the instructors who imparted the most impactful and revealing knowledge were ALL military snipers - and some had gone on to police work. I am a Marine vet amd so maybe i have an internal bias, BUT the non-vet (college and police school only) instructors did not pack the gear, have the correct mentality and they lacked humility (thought their sh>t didn't stink). Having been on bith sides i can say this with certainty - NEVER EVER THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LEARN
I'm a reloader of many, many calibers and firearms with over 45years experience and knowledge. on extremely rare occasions I've shot to700 yd + missed more ground hogs that i hit .lol ,but i wasn't a sniper or trained for it.every thing i know 98 percent i taught myself. it saddens me the lack of civilian marksmanship training around our country. we are terribly laking in basic marksmanship skills. most generations below me just pray and spray .they don't want, need, ask for help.because because they think they know it all. well ill quit rambling on not many want to listen to a old fart , but i do know what im talking about .been there ,done what i.say. i found this show and greatly enjoyed it and subscribed. im not to old to learn new things. papa wishing you well 😊
@SNAKEEATER1776 Well, when you have a friend who you served and worked with, a Ranger who served multiple deployments who is now a felon for merely driving though NJ with an AR unloaded in his trunk...
@Just_Some_Dude1776 Probably the cops should have read the Constitution. Since they don't bother to follow it I see zero reason to train cops. Maybe train them to fail...
@@Just_Some_Dude1776I see my response was deleted. Maybe the cops should read the Constitution and follow the supreme law of the land. Those cops chose to arrest him instead.
So on the reticle topic, if the Tremor 3 is counterintuitive then they do have the Tremor 5 that's recently came out or which reticle would you recommend that would be the best or one of the best for LEO/MIL work?
This is an opinion, nothing more, and my opinon is that a LE sniper needs simplicity. I do believe that a front focal plane optic is a better option than a 2nd, and that the reticle should be simple, such as a TMR, SKMR3 or 4, MSRK, or something equivalent. The reticle should be illuminated as well, and the thickness should be easily visible in low light situations.
@MODERNDAYSNIPER thank you, i know everyone has their own likes or dislikes but for me i was walking out of the stone age with a fixed power mil dot and wanted to step up so like you say all the military issue is Tremor 3 but I'm glad to know their are equally excellent options out there without the christmas yree type look.
It's an excerpt from a podcast, so it may have drifted into another area, but the gist of the conversation is rooted in the perceived disparity of the thought that military snipers aren't qualified to teach law enforcement snipers.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER Totally understand. as a law enforcement officer of 32 years and a law enforcement sniper on a full time team for 26 years i totally understand your video. The best training I received during my time was two different urban sniper operation courses put on by a partnership with back then was called the USMC SOTG East Coast. I also have been to a snipercraft course back in 1997. MIL snipers have a seat at the table. period. thank you
Right on. SOTG is now EOTG. I first was exposed to Snipercraft in 2001 - myself and the rest of the 1st MAR DIV Scout Sniper School staff went to thier competition in San Diego. There was a lot of bravado and definitives that came from Snipercraft, all of which caused us as a staff to look at one another and raise an eyebrow back then.
The unfortunate reality with SniperCraft, the ASA, and now TacFlow is their apparent belief that they monopolize the LE sniper curriculum. I've witnessed unprofessional behavior, such as Derrik throwing a student’s rifle and calling it garbage. For over a decade, the ASA has stagnated LE sniper tactics, and now TacFlow is offering courses that lack meaningful training value, seemingly focused on profit rather than enhancing officer readiness. Any dissent or questioning of their tactics or motives is met with censorship, blocking, and ostracization.
Just going to say this; we civs have the right to this training too, really aggravating to see "LEO/MIL Only" classes with the doors shut to citizens. Public servants work for US, not the other way around sorry.
It's not about denying civilians (which cops also are) any training, and your perceived rights don't entitle you to attend attend a military freefall or EOD school or to force a private business to change their training model. Maybe MDS has a different take on it, but to me it seems that LE and Mil guys training with their peers and sharing lessons learned in a course tailored to their gear and SOPs offers better professional development than a mixed class of hobbyists, hunters, and competition shooters, which will always include Mil/LEO guys anyway. There're no secrets being withheld from you.
@@eleone6725nothing "percieved" about my freedoms at all, you arrogant jerk. Im also not saying that we should shoehorn in and be a distraction to the pros either. What I AM saying is that the gatekeeping gets on my nerves because in the spirit of America we are supposed to be on par with the Feds as far as gear and skillset. Just tired of being looked down on by the Wiley-X-and-sleeve-tat gang because we want to be well-trained and in the know.
All is not lost - however that reticle design is counterintuitive to how the brain processes visual information. There's far too much going on inside of it, and all the whiz-bang features work really awesome on a flat range with 10" and 12" targets in front of berms, but IMO it's all good idea-fairy stuff. No one is using that reticle for anything outside of it being issued to them in the mil, or it's dudes buying it simply because its the reticle mil guys use.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER Looks like the USMC is starting to field the MRAD with a Tremor-equipped NF 7x35. The scope seems like a solid choice, but what reticle (NF or otherwise) would you choose if you were SecDef for the day?
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER I'm actually close to buying a nx8 2.5-20 tremor3. It would be awesome if you made a video about the different reticles out there and whats the go to.
The reticle I would choose is something along the lines of the NF Mil-XT, Kahles SKMR-4, or ZCO's MPCT2. I'm not saying that tree-style reticles are bad - they're applicable, however the mess in front of your face with the Tremors is full of good-idea-fairy stuff to bedazzle the end-user into thinking it's what they need. It certainly worked, but you've gotta ask yourself; if it's so awesome why aren't there more field match competitors using it because the Tremor 3 is pretty low on the choice list in that world.
Marine vet, current LE, and spent some time as part of the instructor cadre for the Precision Rifle Workshop out of Denver. Honor grads were almost always former military guys in the LE classes. The mentality they bring to classes is usually a cut above the rest of the students. I loved what you said about that 10% becoming 100% of your purpose in the moment. It's so damn true. Yeah police work is 99% percent of the time doing something other than shooting, but that 1% is what will matter most when the time comes. Learn from everybody and to hell with what the media will think of your "militarized training." Bartlett didn't even like calling them snipers on the Law Enforcement side.
Thank you for saying this. Having been to a Snipercraft class with Bartlett himself, I'll just say, "No, thank you very much!" Never again.
This was very professionally said. Thank you.
Appreciate the feedback - onward!! Stay tuned, we're not going to stop!
We need to start teaching civilians the same classes
Hoooo boy, brace yourselves for the cool kids club getting offended that you dare try to obtain a skillset.
@ Meaning what?
@@HDBujutsu1775 If you want to do all that cool guy stuff just join.
You can certainly try to obtain the skill sets-it’s easy, find a local recruiting office and make the commitment.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPERgood to know what side of the fence you guys are on, really disappointed. So OP, skillsets and the monopoly on violence is apparently solely for the State and its agents, not the peasantry. 👍
Having recieved training via FBI HRT a state LE agency and a private firm (all US military snipers) I can tell you that the instructors who imparted the most impactful and revealing knowledge were ALL military snipers - and some had gone on to police work. I am a Marine vet amd so maybe i have an internal bias, BUT the non-vet (college and police school only) instructors did not pack the gear, have the correct mentality and they lacked humility (thought their sh>t didn't stink). Having been on bith sides i can say this with certainty - NEVER EVER THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT YOU HAVE NOTHING LEFT TO LEARN
Appreciate the comment sir, I’m glad you had the opportunity to experience both sides of the coin.
Aspiring to become LEO sniper
Love your stuff bro
Appreciate that, and good luck in your journey!
One of your best presentations...Motor On.
We gon' keep motorin'....
I'm a reloader of many, many calibers and firearms with over 45years experience and knowledge. on extremely rare occasions I've shot to700 yd + missed more ground hogs that i hit .lol ,but i wasn't a sniper or trained for it.every thing i know 98 percent i taught myself. it saddens me the lack of civilian marksmanship training around our country. we are terribly laking in basic marksmanship skills. most generations below me just pray and spray .they don't want, need, ask for help.because because they think they know it all. well ill quit rambling on not many want to listen to a old fart , but i do know what im talking about .been there ,done what i.say. i found this show and greatly enjoyed it and subscribed. im not to old to learn new things. papa wishing you well 😊
Couldn’t agree with you more!
Yeah...mil guys training police. Remember, their paycheck is more important than your freedom....
You seem grouchy
@SNAKEEATER1776 Well, when you have a friend who you served and worked with, a Ranger who served multiple deployments who is now a felon for merely driving though NJ with an AR unloaded in his trunk...
@@kicker6274 Probably should of read the NJ Gun laws.
@Just_Some_Dude1776 Probably the cops should have read the Constitution. Since they don't bother to follow it I see zero reason to train cops. Maybe train them to fail...
@@Just_Some_Dude1776I see my response was deleted. Maybe the cops should read the Constitution and follow the supreme law of the land. Those cops chose to arrest him instead.
Curious what spurred this. Anybody have some insight?
Excerpt from a podcast conversation - it’s been an ongoing discussion for many years.
So on the reticle topic, if the Tremor 3 is counterintuitive then they do have the Tremor 5 that's recently came out or which reticle would you recommend that would be the best or one of the best for LEO/MIL work?
This is an opinion, nothing more, and my opinon is that a LE sniper needs simplicity. I do believe that a front focal plane optic is a better option than a 2nd, and that the reticle should be simple, such as a TMR, SKMR3 or 4, MSRK, or something equivalent. The reticle should be illuminated as well, and the thickness should be easily visible in low light situations.
@MODERNDAYSNIPER thank you, i know everyone has their own likes or dislikes but for me i was walking out of the stone age with a fixed power mil dot and wanted to step up so like you say all the military issue is Tremor 3 but I'm glad to know their are equally excellent options out there without the christmas yree type look.
Did the title of this video change in the middle of me watching it?
It's an excerpt from a podcast, so it may have drifted into another area, but the gist of the conversation is rooted in the perceived disparity of the thought that military snipers aren't qualified to teach law enforcement snipers.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER Totally understand. as a law enforcement officer of 32 years and a law enforcement sniper on a full time team for 26 years i totally understand your video. The best training I received during my time was two different urban sniper operation courses put on by a partnership with back then was called the USMC SOTG East Coast. I also have been to a snipercraft course back in 1997. MIL snipers have a seat at the table. period.
thank you
Right on. SOTG is now EOTG. I first was exposed to Snipercraft in 2001 - myself and the rest of the 1st MAR DIV Scout Sniper School staff went to thier competition in San Diego. There was a lot of bravado and definitives that came from Snipercraft, all of which caused us as a staff to look at one another and raise an eyebrow back then.
The unfortunate reality with SniperCraft, the ASA, and now TacFlow is their apparent belief that they monopolize the LE sniper curriculum. I've witnessed unprofessional behavior, such as Derrik throwing a student’s rifle and calling it garbage. For over a decade, the ASA has stagnated LE sniper tactics, and now TacFlow is offering courses that lack meaningful training value, seemingly focused on profit rather than enhancing officer readiness. Any dissent or questioning of their tactics or motives is met with censorship, blocking, and ostracization.
They can both stand by, cuz we’re here, and we’re not going anywhere.
👍🏻👍🏻
✌️
Just going to say this; we civs have the right to this training too, really aggravating to see "LEO/MIL Only" classes with the doors shut to citizens. Public servants work for US, not the other way around sorry.
It's not about denying civilians (which cops also are) any training, and your perceived rights don't entitle you to attend attend a military freefall or EOD school or to force a private business to change their training model.
Maybe MDS has a different take on it, but to me it seems that LE and Mil guys training with their peers and sharing lessons learned in a course tailored to their gear and SOPs offers better professional development than a mixed class of hobbyists, hunters, and competition shooters, which will always include Mil/LEO guys anyway. There're no secrets being withheld from you.
@@eleone6725nothing "percieved" about my freedoms at all, you arrogant jerk. Im also not saying that we should shoehorn in and be a distraction to the pros either. What I AM saying is that the gatekeeping gets on my nerves because in the spirit of America we are supposed to be on par with the Feds as far as gear and skillset. Just tired of being looked down on by the Wiley-X-and-sleeve-tat gang because we want to be well-trained and in the know.
We pay their flippen salaries, for Pete’s sake!!!
There’s all manor off stuff civis don’t get taught. Tactics, and RECCE just to start
@@eleone6725Just wait until these guys are arresting gun owners because their dental plans are more important than your freedoms..
A better class would be: "LEO Tactics and how to survive them."
That class starts with your parents and community teaching you how not to fuck around - so you don’t find out.
Damnit. I bought a Tremor 3 to learn how to use for it for long range.
All is not lost - however that reticle design is counterintuitive to how the brain processes visual information. There's far too much going on inside of it, and all the whiz-bang features work really awesome on a flat range with 10" and 12" targets in front of berms, but IMO it's all good idea-fairy stuff. No one is using that reticle for anything outside of it being issued to them in the mil, or it's dudes buying it simply because its the reticle mil guys use.
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER Looks like the USMC is starting to field the MRAD with a Tremor-equipped NF 7x35. The scope seems like a solid choice, but what reticle (NF or otherwise) would you choose if you were SecDef for the day?
@@MODERNDAYSNIPER I'm actually close to buying a nx8 2.5-20 tremor3. It would be awesome if you made a video about the different reticles out there and whats the go to.
Same here. I just bought a Nightforce with Tremor 3 to learn and train with because everyone says it's the best. Lol
The reticle I would choose is something along the lines of the NF Mil-XT, Kahles SKMR-4, or ZCO's MPCT2. I'm not saying that tree-style reticles are bad - they're applicable, however the mess in front of your face with the Tremors is full of good-idea-fairy stuff to bedazzle the end-user into thinking it's what they need. It certainly worked, but you've gotta ask yourself; if it's so awesome why aren't there more field match competitors using it because the Tremor 3 is pretty low on the choice list in that world.