This is the stuff I've been using too. I shoot for 11 pH. Don't forget that you need to add in the volume of water in your wet return. The boiler capacity spec is only for the boiler of course. :-)
The 8-way doesn’t really flow into the wet return. The return is full of pure distilled water. I would add just enough 8-way to get to 11-12. Adding more won’t change the ph much since 8-way has a pH buffer that holds the pH near there regardless of additional concentration
@@pb7379-j2k I think that it diffuses into the wet return through the Hartford Loop close nipple connection to the equalizer. I hope it does because condensate tends to be very acidic due to absorbing CO2 and forming carbonic acid. When I drain my boiler down to the bottom of the hartford loop and then drain my wet return, the 8 way is definitely in there. That's interesting info. about the max. pH. I didn't see that on their website. I'll have to get my digital pH meter out and see if it is dead after so many years of lack of use. They also say somewhere that it protects steam pipes, which would imply that it gets entrained into the steam and dragged along with it. I'm skeptical but hopeful.
@@captainwho1 I am skeptical of steam pipe protection as well. I have a drain spigot in my wet return very near my boiler and it is always 100% clear when I open it so I don't think very much is mixing into the return from the boiler...there's just nothing that would facilitate that mixing...and even if there is a little, the very next time the boiler fires, there is going to be a continuous current of fresh condensate into the boiler from the return. Don't worry about the alleged acidity of return water--return pipes are cheap to replace and they last for years and years. If you're worried about it, replace them with copper next time they rot out.
@@pb7379-j2k My near boiler piping is less than ideal and no doubt some of the 8 way gets up into the header and then goes down the equalizer and then into the hartford connection. My dry returns and wet returns are all copper. The condensate absolutely is acidic. I have a last leg of a large L shaped main that is 0 pitch (level), probably due to settling of the house rather than the dead men messing up. That 100 yr old steel pipe is corroded through in many places. Probably started as 3/16" wall thickness. Just checked and the pH of my return water is 10 or 11 (dark green on hydrion) and the boiler water more alkaline (dark blue on hydrion), like 12. You must have really clean radiators and pipes if your return water is clear. Mine is always rusty as all heck.
@@captainwho1 Interesting. But I must tell you that return pH of 10-11 is alkaline, not acidic. 7 is neutral, lower than 7 is acidic. I'll have to measure my return water but yes, it's very clean. I wonder if you are seeing boiler water or something and mistaking it for return water. Of course, after the return water has sat in the pipe all summer there will be some brown water but not very much!
I see now when you said you put 1 in it was your own boiler. Dont look bad. I like putting my unions on with the bevel going in with the flow of the steam. I see your testing the ph and chemicals. Good job
Great Video. I was wondering what kind of water treatment was available for small domestic boilers. I was a pipe-fitter in a naval ship yard and the navy takes water treatment very seriously. I really like those sight glasses, you never need to guess what's going on inside. Thanks for the video.
Hi Paul, I have a Peerless 64-10 steam boiler with condensate feed pump for a commercial building. Is there any way test for dissolved oxygen in boiler water and any chemical available to treat the boiler to control dissolved oxygen?
Hi there- I wouldn’t think there would be any significant dissolved oxygen in your boiler water because boiling the water drives out almost all the dissolved oxygen. Of course, makeup water can have lots of oxygen but you shouldn’t have a lot of makeup water. Tell me, why do you suspect dissolved oxygen in your boiler water?
@uneau7379 Hi Paul, I have a 517,000 BTU (Input) Peerless 64-10 steam Boiler and condensate goes to feed pump reservoir not to the boiler. This condensate reservoir has an open vent. I see part of very hot condensate evaporating through this reservoir vent when the heat is on. For this reason, fresh water (plus Oxygen) is added automatically (the reservoir fills up automatically similar to a toilet tank) to compensate for the water lost through evaporation.
Great video. How long did you run the boiler with the mfg suggested concentration? Did you ever notice issues after running for awhile? I started using it this season with 15yr old Dunkirk boiler. Putting in about 10oz and getting lots of surging and foaming in the site glass even after completely flushing twice 2 weeks apart.
What color is the water when it surges? Is it still translucent purple? Or is it getting brown? My new clean boiler runs and runs with purple but my old one-the 8-way would free up old sediment over time and want to surge after awhile. So if it’s brown I would drain, refill, and add 8-10 ounces or whatever gets you to 10-11 ph
@@pb7379-j2k the water does get brown when it starts surging after awhile. I guess I just need to keep at it. Hopefully it'll clear and stay clear eventually. Thanks for the response.
@@jamesng5251 yeah don’t worry, when the dirt is all gone, the water will stay clear. And the higher ph from the additive will greatly reduce the corrosion
These are the instructions came with my Peerless 64-10 steam boiler. Could you please share some ideas how to test and manage chloride concentration, water hardness and dissolved oxygen level in steam boilers? Steam Boilers: (From Peerless User Manual) a. Boiler water pH should be in the 7.5 to 11 range. b. Boiler water chloride concentration should be less than 30 ppm. c. The water hardness should be less than 7 grains per gallon to prevent scale build-up and foaming.
There are test kits for hardness I believe and probably chlorides. Oxygen gets forced out when the water is heated to boiling. The most important thing is to minimize steam and water leaks to minimize having to add water throughout the heating season. If you do have high chlorides you can add water from another source such as distilled water. Do not use softened water.
@@aglasserm1679 but the Hartford loop separates the return water from the boiler. Steam leaves the treatment behind, it condenses, runs to the return perfectly clear. Only when it re-enters the boiler does it re-mix with the treatment it left behind. So at any time there is never more than 9.3 gallons in there. And less when it’s steaming
I haven’t tested those yet but steam master is basically the same thing by the same manufacturer I think, although it’s discontinued. I have some surgex that I might try and I have a video coming up with another product real soon
@@pb7379-j2k thanks! Looking forward to it. I’ve been using 8-way as that’s the most easy to obtain for me. Getting a new boiler installed this week and want to make sure I’m doing all I can for maintenance!
@@bentso8002 before you get it you should go to HeatingHelp.com to make sure they are going to do it right. Screwed up boiler installs are very very common!!
@@pb7379-j2k thanks! I’ve actually been reading up in the forum and that’s where I found your videos. I also found my installer from the forum so that’s a good start! Should be similar specs as your install except with a Weil McLain eg-30!
Right, that’s the goal. And I can see my steam is dry because I have the sight glass. Everyone else is just hoping. Or am I misunderstanding your comment ?
Those sight glasses are way too cool! I’d be down the basement staring at them every time my thermostat called for heat.
Thanks! They are great but in normal operation there is nothing to see. That’s why I make videos like this one 😂
This is great info! You have a great set up here with the skimmer. So I’m looking at approx 20-24 ounces or so for my 15 gallon system
@@lzen8197 thanks! Start slowly-the directions suggest way too much.
This is the stuff I've been using too. I shoot for 11 pH. Don't forget that you need to add in the volume of water in your wet return. The boiler capacity spec is only for the boiler of course. :-)
The 8-way doesn’t really flow into the wet return. The return is full of pure distilled water. I would add just enough 8-way to get to 11-12. Adding more won’t change the ph much since 8-way has a pH buffer that holds the pH near there regardless of additional concentration
@@pb7379-j2k I think that it diffuses into the wet return through the Hartford Loop close nipple connection to the equalizer. I hope it does because condensate tends to be very acidic due to absorbing CO2 and forming carbonic acid. When I drain my boiler down to the bottom of the hartford loop and then drain my wet return, the 8 way is definitely in there. That's interesting info. about the max. pH. I didn't see that on their website. I'll have to get my digital pH meter out and see if it is dead after so many years of lack of use. They also say somewhere that it protects steam pipes, which would imply that it gets entrained into the steam and dragged along with it. I'm skeptical but hopeful.
@@captainwho1 I am skeptical of steam pipe protection as well. I have a drain spigot in my wet return very near my boiler and it is always 100% clear when I open it so I don't think very much is mixing into the return from the boiler...there's just nothing that would facilitate that mixing...and even if there is a little, the very next time the boiler fires, there is going to be a continuous current of fresh condensate into the boiler from the return. Don't worry about the alleged acidity of return water--return pipes are cheap to replace and they last for years and years. If you're worried about it, replace them with copper next time they rot out.
@@pb7379-j2k My near boiler piping is less than ideal and no doubt some of the 8 way gets up into the header and then goes down the equalizer and then into the hartford connection. My dry returns and wet returns are all copper. The condensate absolutely is acidic. I have a last leg of a large L shaped main that is 0 pitch (level), probably due to settling of the house rather than the dead men messing up. That 100 yr old steel pipe is corroded through in many places. Probably started as 3/16" wall thickness. Just checked and the pH of my return water is 10 or 11 (dark green on hydrion) and the boiler water more alkaline (dark blue on hydrion), like 12. You must have really clean radiators and pipes if your return water is clear. Mine is always rusty as all heck.
@@captainwho1 Interesting. But I must tell you that return pH of 10-11 is alkaline, not acidic. 7 is neutral, lower than 7 is acidic. I'll have to measure my return water but yes, it's very clean.
I wonder if you are seeing boiler water or something and mistaking it for return water. Of course, after the return water has sat in the pipe all summer there will be some brown water but not very much!
Great info! Thanks for sharing
I see now when you said you put 1 in it was your own boiler. Dont look bad. I like putting my unions on with the bevel going in with the flow of the steam. I see your testing the ph and chemicals. Good job
Thanks!! I’ll look at those unions, I’m happy to learn of a preferred direction !
Great Video. I was wondering what kind of water treatment was available for small domestic boilers. I was a pipe-fitter in a naval ship yard and the navy takes water treatment very seriously. I really like those sight glasses, you never need to guess what's going on inside. Thanks for the video.
Thanks so much! There are a few treatments out there. I like 8-way but a lot of pros like steamaster tablets but they got discontinued
Hi Paul, I have a Peerless 64-10 steam boiler with condensate feed pump for a commercial building. Is there any way test for dissolved oxygen in boiler water and any chemical available to treat the boiler to control dissolved oxygen?
Hi there- I wouldn’t think there would be any significant dissolved oxygen in your boiler water because boiling the water drives out almost all the dissolved oxygen.
Of course, makeup water can have lots of oxygen but you shouldn’t have a lot of makeup water.
Tell me, why do you suspect dissolved oxygen in your boiler water?
@uneau7379 Hi Paul, I have a 517,000 BTU (Input) Peerless 64-10 steam Boiler and condensate goes to feed pump reservoir not to the boiler. This condensate reservoir has an open vent. I see part of very hot condensate evaporating through this reservoir vent when the heat is on. For this reason, fresh water (plus Oxygen) is added automatically (the reservoir fills up automatically similar to a toilet tank) to compensate for the water lost through evaporation.
I’m not a steam professional but I will say that I dislike the idea of condensate pumps in general and if it were me I’d explore ways to eliminate it
Great video. How long did you run the boiler with the mfg suggested concentration? Did you ever notice issues after running for awhile? I started using it this season with 15yr old Dunkirk boiler. Putting in about 10oz and getting lots of surging and foaming in the site glass even after completely flushing twice 2 weeks apart.
What color is the water when it surges? Is it still translucent purple? Or is it getting brown? My new clean boiler runs and runs with purple but my old one-the 8-way would free up old sediment over time and want to surge after awhile.
So if it’s brown I would drain, refill, and add 8-10 ounces or whatever gets you to 10-11 ph
@@pb7379-j2k the water does get brown when it starts surging after awhile. I guess I just need to keep at it. Hopefully it'll clear and stay clear eventually. Thanks for the response.
@@jamesng5251 yeah don’t worry, when the dirt is all gone, the water will stay clear. And the higher ph from the additive will greatly reduce the corrosion
These are the instructions came with my Peerless 64-10 steam boiler. Could you please share some ideas how to test and manage chloride concentration, water hardness and dissolved oxygen level in steam boilers?
Steam Boilers: (From Peerless User Manual)
a. Boiler water pH should be in the 7.5 to 11 range.
b. Boiler water chloride concentration should be less than 30 ppm.
c. The water hardness should be less than 7 grains per gallon to prevent scale build-up and foaming.
There are test kits for hardness I believe and probably chlorides. Oxygen gets forced out when the water is heated to boiling. The most important thing is to minimize steam and water leaks to minimize having to add water throughout the heating season.
If you do have high chlorides you can add water from another source such as distilled water. Do not use softened water.
Thanks for the information Paul. We appreciate it very much. Take care.
When you are talking of water capacity should you consider the amount of water also in the return lines as well.
Good question! But no, because that water has zero treatment in it due to being condensate
@@pb7379-j2k But it's also connected thru the hartford loop directly to the boiler
@@aglasserm1679 but the Hartford loop separates the return water from the boiler.
Steam leaves the treatment behind, it condenses, runs to the return perfectly clear. Only when it re-enters the boiler does it re-mix with the treatment it left behind.
So at any time there is never more than 9.3 gallons in there. And less when it’s steaming
why is your main not insulated?
It is. This is an old video. But it’s not that big a deal to not insulate it especially if you want some heat in your basement
Any thoughts on 8-way vs surgex and steam master?
I haven’t tested those yet but steam master is basically the same thing by the same manufacturer I think, although it’s discontinued.
I have some surgex that I might try and I have a video coming up with another product real soon
@@pb7379-j2k thanks! Looking forward to it. I’ve been using 8-way as that’s the most easy to obtain for me. Getting a new boiler installed this week and want to make sure I’m doing all I can for maintenance!
@@bentso8002 before you get it you should go to HeatingHelp.com to make sure they are going to do it right. Screwed up boiler installs are very very common!!
@@pb7379-j2k thanks! I’ve actually been reading up in the forum and that’s where I found your videos. I also found my installer from the forum so that’s a good start! Should be similar specs as your install except with a Weil McLain eg-30!
@@bentso8002 ahh nice that makes sense! You should post pics of it as it’s getting installed!
I believe steam is dry so you shouldn't see it in that sight glass you put on the supply line
Right, that’s the goal. And I can see my steam is dry because I have the sight glass. Everyone else is just hoping. Or am I misunderstanding your comment ?