@Hreinn91 maybe... if you consider using skills such as splitting up your marines when banelings come, but there are probably other skills the other races use that require a lot of APM as well.
@Urza26 Actually, I believe QXC did this for a couple reasons. One to try to keep the infestors energy low, two to keep Dimaga from just droning to hard.
If you're going to use Ultras (or even Broodlords) I really think you have to use Queens for Transfuse too... Simply spending money to replace the ones that die is way too expensive.
@101ablerudeboy all the infesters abilities can be anti-air, it probably would have been to cost to get the banshees and vikings, and Dimaga could have easily gotten air units up as well.
@bertvanbertenernie Infestors are a very immobile unit, the key to winning against them is not running head first into them, but dropping / harassing with air. I'm not good at terran, but if you could force mutas by banshee harass, or force infestors by bio/mech and then dropping or delayed cloak banshee that could perhaps be a solution.
@ike1218CA Yeah, except that ALL zerg units are very low range. You cannot compare spells between the races as all the races have very different fundemental unit mechanics. It's like saying gateway units should have stim because marines and marauders do.
@henhicktaimon 1. they were different tournaments games, different formats, different attitude. 2. Dimaga loves to prepare against specific opponent, not just race. He learned from previous matches. You can say there are 0:1 in bo1 and 1:0 in bo3, but 2:2 is mixing apples with oranges.
Yes!!!! Zerg is in the game! Someone needs to make a replay vid of that one baneling nailing all those peasants that were traveling to the top base. That was just sick.
@my8Statements I agree. But long battles that come down to resources are called wars of attrition, not nutrition. Nutrition is the process of nourishment, while attrition is a reduction in strength. ;)
qxc needed to use TLO early marine rush... also, I feel that qxc could have had a chance at the end... if he didn't gg check the resources tab on the top right, despite a lot of bases, dimaga didn't have a lot of workers and his banked resources were being depleted, if qxc could hold on, he could have a chance
@Austriarts Infestors can deal with air. Fungal, infested terran and neural parasite can all deal with all kinds of air play and in most cases with great effect. Say QXC made some BC's, then dimaga would have been able to neural parasite them, make them attack each other, and put down some infested terran. Obviously he would just fungal and infested terran vs banshees, but also note that if QXC would have gone for air play, he would have a weaker ground army...
@ludogogo It's just a micro contest. You can't say that what I said was wrong simply because there's a counter. There's a counter to every unit and every tactic in Starcraft, it's a question of seizing the initiative. Cloaked ghosts + snipe can't be anticipated if it's done right and the Zerg isn't expecting it. If all the Infestors get Sniped how are they supposed to Neural Parasite?
Just out of curiousity, was it *really* necessary to send out those small groups of marines and marauders in the center of the map to just die? Was that a missed rally point or...
@101ablerudeboy Fungal Growth + Infested Terrans is plenty of anti-air. And Dimaga could just as easily have switched to air himself, considering how tank and Marauder heavy the Terran was.
22:28 "MAH HEARTS BEATIN', MAH HEART'S BEATIN', MAH HANDS ARE SHAKIN', BUT I'M STILL SHOOTING AND I'M STILL GETTING HEADSHOTS IT'S LIKE BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT BOOOOOM HEEEAADSHOOOT!!!!"
HD, I love watching the game from a players viewpoint, but we can't see what his actions are when you have still selected some units/buildings. Like at 4:55 you had 4 Barracks selected. We couldn't see what qxc was doing. Other than that, great casting. :)
Droping in the late game really helps Z's a lot....you have eather that or walking in the siege line.....u must have crazy micro tho :-) 200+ APM....I love Dimaga play...watch more of his games and you'll see what I mean...All he did this time was exploid the buffed curruptors - now they are crazy better then before. Thums up for the cast and for HD world turnament!
Wow.. QXC used to be my favorite. I haven't seen a cast of a game of him winning at high level in so long. He used to have this super aggressive, drop all over the place style of play. I'm so dissapointed.
@Shyhalu Even "macro up your army" requires more groundwork for zerg than the other races. Sure, it's easy to replace lost troops, as long as you've maintained map control to get on five bases and kept up on injects. Fast, hard macro is part of the zerg style, but it requires as much or more tactical thinking and fine control to make it work as any of the other races. The trail of zerg QQ threads in every SC2 forum is evidence enough that it's the most punishing race for unskilled players.
at one point i paused and when i came back i was like "wtf i thought i was watching a dimaga video not one with spanishiwa". really like how zvt evolved
@stevey1221 I'm guessing he wanted to play it safe, dimaga got his inf. pit out pretty darn quickly and early cloaked banshees are a pretty sizeable investment.
@smokolotapotamus if you can, go watch the dimaga vs im_mvp game from the world champioship. QXC's composition wasnt bad, it's just that dimaga played awesome on those two games....
Zerg are always complaining about how both protoss and terran are OP, but it's not true. I have seen great terrans plow through zerg and toss, and vice versa. It's all about your build order and how well you execute your game plan. If it was really that bad, none of the pros would play zerg because they would never win.
@nejtilsvampe you think protoss is as mobile as terran or zerg? What are you basing that off of? Just warp gate? Aside from the stalker and phoenix, protoss units are slower than other units (unless zerg is off of creep) Zealots are rediculously slow compared to marines, marauders, reapers, zerglings, roach ect. I mean, if zealots didn't have charge marauders with slow would shred them so damn easily. Its so bad that half the time they dont even get a single hit in on the marines and marauders,
@SomeIncredibleDude like i said, i'm in platinum right now. I started out in bronze when the game first started, got all the way to diamond last season before the reset, now i'm in platinum. I would never GG if the 4gate failed, I have won tons of game by tech switching. I had someone actually quit just because I spotted his dark templar, it's kinda redic. You will need those gateways eventually, might as well play it out, because quite often you can pull it off anyways.
@SomeIncredibleDude nah, i've perfected the timing, no later than 6:30 minutes into the game, unless i'm being harassed really heavily and it throws me off. And I didn't mean both, I meant by the time 4gate kicks in, a zerg can easily have baneling or roach, and both can hold it off if done correctly. 4gate is a smart build anyway, why would you want your opponent to tech up and have a better chance at beating you?? The whole point is to win, and to do that as soon and easily as you can.
@SomeIncredibleDude and yet it happens all the time. I've had zerg op. get banelings before my 4gate kicked in around the 7 minute mark, and its easy to get roaches by that point if u want to go that route. Just calling something 'cheese' doesn't mean a damn thing. Is it cheese when Foxer uses a handful of marines and scvs to win? Or is it that it just pisses the person off that they couldn't hold it off? I hate 6 pool, because it hits so damn early, but its still a legitimate strategy.
QXC just played as if the zerg went mutalingbling. You need ghosts for the infestors I know that for sure. Just send the ghosts on commando missions and snipe the infestors (2 shots, 50 energy) which is totally worth it.
@crazyshot108 You can't be above platinum then, because you cut probes to make a 4gate work, and at a high level of play (such as diamond+) you can't recover from that. When a 4gate fails it's almost courteous at a high level to just call "gg" and not waste time.
@Irbubble thanks for your idea's. Constructive critism will get people to improve. The internet needs more people like you!
HD is living vicariously through Dimaga, you can tell from his enthusiasm :P
This was a great series. Very much enjoyed watching the zerg figuring out QxE's game so easily.
dont you just love the ultralisk death animations. i especially love it when they explode & all thats left is their ribs & legs.
@Hreinn91 maybe... if you consider using skills such as splitting up your marines when banelings come, but there are probably other skills the other races use that require a lot of APM as well.
Dimaga is so amazing. New favorite zerg. awesome style!
Very nice games, there is a lot to be learned here for upcoming Zerg players like myself and it shows that the race is well viable.
Welcome back HD, Amazing cast this series so far. Cant wayt for game 3.
@Urza26 Actually, I believe QXC did this for a couple reasons. One to try to keep the infestors energy low, two to keep Dimaga from just droning to hard.
If you're going to use Ultras (or even Broodlords) I really think you have to use Queens for Transfuse too... Simply spending money to replace the ones that die is way too expensive.
Dimaga did amazingly well, and qxc put up a great fight. I could watch these 2 duel it all day, great opponents to watch. :)
Love how dimaga went from heavy roach to heavy infestor! Love his new style :D
Good Game DIMA :D
One of the best games I've watched lately
@101ablerudeboy all the infesters abilities can be anti-air, it probably would have been to cost to get the banshees and vikings, and Dimaga could have easily gotten air units up as well.
Anyone remember the name of Terran vs Zerg game which ended in a base race followed by an epic burrored baneling mine?
@crazyshot108 4gate is an allin, people only tend to do those often when you don't feel confident in your later game skills.
I really like Dimaga's style with all those zerglings.
Dimaga, earned a name of best use of Ultralisk , dropping them into the Tanks that helps alot
Gotta love seeing ultralisk come back into play!
Wow, that was free, Im surprised it went on for that long, dimaga controlled the game from the beginning to the very end.
@crazyshot108 Then your timing's off if they have both of those. Cheese is an early allin, whether a strategy or not it's still called cheese.
Dimaga didn't slip for a single second. Zerg at it's best when under control of a total professional.
I am very impressed. I think I'll be rooting for Dimaga to win the turny :)
i think command centres should be able to land on small units such as zerglings, It only makes sense. The CC would be able to crush the zerglings
i simply LOVE dimaga! I allways have! My favorite player! GO DIMAGA!!!
@bertvanbertenernie Infestors are a very immobile unit, the key to winning against them is not running head first into them, but dropping / harassing with air. I'm not good at terran, but if you could force mutas by banshee harass, or force infestors by bio/mech and then dropping or delayed cloak banshee that could perhaps be a solution.
@ike1218CA Yeah, except that ALL zerg units are very low range. You cannot compare spells between the races as all the races have very different fundemental unit mechanics. It's like saying gateway units should have stim because marines and marauders do.
@henhicktaimon 1. they were different tournaments games, different formats, different attitude.
2. Dimaga loves to prepare against specific opponent, not just race. He learned from previous matches.
You can say there are 0:1 in bo1 and 1:0 in bo3, but 2:2 is mixing apples with oranges.
Yes!!!! Zerg is in the game! Someone needs to make a replay vid of that one baneling nailing all those peasants that were traveling to the top base. That was just sick.
I've heard that ghosts with cloak work really well against infestors.
I've also heard banshee harass works great.
@Huevito1234 you do know it's like 1.5 times more per second, right? they gather a lot more, but they also take some more time to gather it.
@my8Statements
I agree. But long battles that come down to resources are called wars of attrition, not nutrition. Nutrition is the process of nourishment, while attrition is a reduction in strength. ;)
HD you called this game so well. very good job.
qxc needed to use TLO early marine rush...
also, I feel that qxc could have had a chance at the end... if he didn't gg
check the resources tab on the top right, despite a lot of bases, dimaga didn't have a lot of workers and his banked resources were being depleted, if qxc could hold on, he could have a chance
ive never seen this good use of ultras before! props to dimaga
really great cast, can't stop watching. hope there's more ZvT in HDwt
Your Casts kick ass HD
Always entertaining
DIMAGA has matured into a GODLY zerg player, best in the biz if you ask me...for now.
@Austriarts Infestors can deal with air. Fungal, infested terran and neural parasite can all deal with all kinds of air play and in most cases with great effect. Say QXC made some BC's, then dimaga would have been able to neural parasite them, make them attack each other, and put down some infested terran. Obviously he would just fungal and infested terran vs banshees, but also note that if QXC would have gone for air play, he would have a weaker ground army...
dimaga was on top of his game. the upgraded infestors are the new way to play zvt
@ludogogo It's just a micro contest. You can't say that what I said was wrong simply because there's a counter. There's a counter to every unit and every tactic in Starcraft, it's a question of seizing the initiative. Cloaked ghosts + snipe can't be anticipated if it's done right and the Zerg isn't expecting it. If all the Infestors get Sniped how are they supposed to Neural Parasite?
HD make an updated bracket video!!!
Just out of curiousity, was it *really* necessary to send out those small groups of marines and marauders in the center of the map to just die? Was that a missed rally point or...
Rofl I love how dimaga goes from 160 supply to 200 in a matter of seconds over and over again.
He makes zerg look overpowered!
This for the best battle I have seen by the Zerg, I believe this is one for the history books guys.
I love Terran but it is so refreshing to see a Zerg player win without a single mutalisk.
@101ablerudeboy Fungal Growth + Infested Terrans is plenty of anti-air. And Dimaga could just as easily have switched to air himself, considering how tank and Marauder heavy the Terran was.
@Shyhalu Okay, how about you try and inject larva while micro-ing your units in battle?
Wish HD would try and remember to lower the in-game GUI once in a while =(
@danman2125 Agreed. It's all those Ultras he makes, 6 supply per larvae.
Wow.... Dimaga really knows how to play zerg... D: Very impressive play!
22:28 "MAH HEARTS BEATIN', MAH HEART'S BEATIN', MAH HANDS ARE SHAKIN', BUT I'M STILL SHOOTING AND I'M STILL GETTING HEADSHOTS IT'S LIKE BOOM HEADSHOT BOOM HEADSHOT BOOOOOM HEEEAADSHOOOT!!!!"
HD, I love watching the game from a players viewpoint, but we can't see what his actions are when you have still selected some units/buildings.
Like at 4:55 you had 4 Barracks selected. We couldn't see what qxc was doing.
Other than that, great casting. :)
Oh boy best games of the round of 16, gotta love T v Z!
@bryanlow5 i know right, soon we'll be seeing colossi in warp prisms :P
Droping in the late game really helps Z's a lot....you have eather that or walking in the siege line.....u must have crazy micro tho :-) 200+ APM....I love Dimaga play...watch more of his games and you'll see what I mean...All he did this time was exploid the buffed curruptors - now they are crazy better then before. Thums up for the cast and for HD world turnament!
@chasington89 it wasnt dimaga with 4k gas.. It was qxc
were can u get the brackets for this tournament
Wow, that was fantastic play. Makes you want to play zerg!
Lol, at 19:10 that baneling is just chilling and waiting for some SCV love.
Dropping ultralisks on the tanks is brilliant play :D :)
Wow.. QXC used to be my favorite. I haven't seen a cast of a game of him winning at high level in so long. He used to have this super aggressive, drop all over the place style of play. I'm so dissapointed.
@Menega007 because if he can defend the far one he can expand inward and have an easy time on 4th 5th or 6th defence
@Shyhalu Even "macro up your army" requires more groundwork for zerg than the other races. Sure, it's easy to replace lost troops, as long as you've maintained map control to get on five bases and kept up on injects. Fast, hard macro is part of the zerg style, but it requires as much or more tactical thinking and fine control to make it work as any of the other races. The trail of zerg QQ threads in every SC2 forum is evidence enough that it's the most punishing race for unskilled players.
@knsmile87 so if you got it on nova/ sarah kerrigan... .new chuck norris
Damn, and just the other day I was talking about how underpowered ultras were. Dimaga is a bad ass.
at one point i paused and when i came back i was like "wtf i thought i was watching a dimaga video not one with spanishiwa".
really like how zvt evolved
@stevey1221 I'm guessing he wanted to play it safe, dimaga got his inf. pit out pretty darn quickly and early cloaked banshees are a pretty sizeable investment.
infestor zerglin baneling ultralisk army, and its very difficult to commbat
would it really be so difficult to invest in some banshees? or even bcs?
@Barkilax what do you mean, like 1a?
@bryanlow5 in sc1 an overlord could carry 2 ultras right?
@smokolotapotamus if you can, go watch the dimaga vs im_mvp game from the world champioship. QXC's composition wasnt bad, it's just that dimaga played awesome on those two games....
"Was it effective?"
It was super effective!
why the heck didn't qxc use maruder slow against ultralisks, or are the ultras immune?
Amazing game, played so well from both sides
who won the first match i forgot.
These matches were very satisfying to watch, to see how easily dimaga crushed qxc :D
@gamervgd watched game 3 of idra vs socke? best cast ever.
You into modern history HD?
Zerg are always complaining about how both protoss and terran are OP, but it's not true. I have seen great terrans plow through zerg and toss, and vice versa. It's all about your build order and how well you execute your game plan. If it was really that bad, none of the pros would play zerg because they would never win.
@wydog286 yeah but watching these last two games you would think the there was nothing a T could do vs an infestering Z (which they really can't)
I don't understand why qxc didn't go for battlecruisers at some point to demolish the complete lack of anti-air, can someone please explain this?
@nejtilsvampe you think protoss is as mobile as terran or zerg? What are you basing that off of? Just warp gate? Aside from the stalker and phoenix, protoss units are slower than other units (unless zerg is off of creep) Zealots are rediculously slow compared to marines, marauders, reapers, zerglings, roach ect. I mean, if zealots didn't have charge marauders with slow would shred them so damn easily. Its so bad that half the time they dont even get a single hit in on the marines and marauders,
@hotkulboi77 soooorrrryyyyyy, but why read the comments before watching the video sir?
@kgregzz its a damn good album
@chasington89 qxc had 4k gas, not the other way around.
@IgniteSC yeah i know who that dood is...but that has nothin to do with starcraft? or 22:28? righT?
@MrMaruster Can it still np medivac? I got confused with all the patches
Thumbs up to hide the spoilers.
Thanks!
Dimaga. 2nd favorite zerg player after tlo
@SomeIncredibleDude like i said, i'm in platinum right now. I started out in bronze when the game first started, got all the way to diamond last season before the reset, now i'm in platinum. I would never GG if the 4gate failed, I have won tons of game by tech switching. I had someone actually quit just because I spotted his dark templar, it's kinda redic. You will need those gateways eventually, might as well play it out, because quite often you can pull it off anyways.
@SomeIncredibleDude nah, i've perfected the timing, no later than 6:30 minutes into the game, unless i'm being harassed really heavily and it throws me off. And I didn't mean both, I meant by the time 4gate kicks in, a zerg can easily have baneling or roach, and both can hold it off if done correctly. 4gate is a smart build anyway, why would you want your opponent to tech up and have a better chance at beating you?? The whole point is to win, and to do that as soon and easily as you can.
@CerberusBrown How hard is it to not post spoilers is the question.
Does Terran require higher APM then other races?
why didn't he have any banshees or vikings? dimaga had no anti-air
@danman2125 it hard to get to the point where you can do that though.
@SomeIncredibleDude and yet it happens all the time. I've had zerg op. get banelings before my 4gate kicked in around the 7 minute mark, and its easy to get roaches by that point if u want to go that route. Just calling something 'cheese' doesn't mean a damn thing. Is it cheese when Foxer uses a handful of marines and scvs to win? Or is it that it just pisses the person off that they couldn't hold it off? I hate 6 pool, because it hits so damn early, but its still a legitimate strategy.
Man I was waiting for this so bad....GOGO GO Zerg power!
QXC just played as if the zerg went mutalingbling. You need ghosts for the infestors I know that for sure. Just send the ghosts on commando missions and snipe the infestors (2 shots, 50 energy) which is totally worth it.
@crazyshot108 You can't be above platinum then, because you cut probes to make a 4gate work, and at a high level of play (such as diamond+) you can't recover from that. When a 4gate fails it's almost courteous at a high level to just call "gg" and not waste time.