Why are they spending 10 minutes tip toeing around the issue. Like holy shit just say "I'm the igl listen to me" and then just debate whether the call was wrong.
Yeah it's not gonna work. Design isn't going to be a Fragger that listens to Timmy's igl call outs. He's over thinking every decision Timmy tries to make. Timmys also a way better Pathy... Can dezign not play bang or something?
Timmy is a great path, but in another type of play, more casual, not in pro League, in that case, his a way better Bangalore, he has more experience playing with that character and playing inside the smoke @@berserkmonk5331
Seriously dude when Dezign kept saying “Well I think that would’ve been a bad zip” like bro stfu you are NOT the igl just do as you’re told and get mad if the play fails afterward
because dezign is a child fuck, he wont listen and wont stand being demended and timmy is too polite too, he tries to go around all the points to make it right why his call is the good one AND at the same time saying indirectly that he should listen to the call regardless
@@juicecompadre2393i said "bro still do not understand whats going on in this conversation" its not about having better opinion or reviewing the play, its clearly you are overruling the igl and not doing the play correctly
I was in Dezigns stream, Timmy went off for another 20 mins once he got off his own stream. But if you look at the vod dezign put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged lol. It wasn’t the best call, but Timmy really just needed to hear “my bad”, which Dez simply isn’t capable of. He always gives an excuse
@@henry3397 idk what you smoked before watching that vod but Timmy clearly pings to zip to the bottom of the cliffs. Dez grapples to the bridge which was not where Timmy wanted to go and then sets a zip line that doesn’t even reach halfway to Timmy causing them to have to waste Cat ult trying to get Timmy over to them. I guess at least dezign isn’t alone in his terrible in game sense.
Watch the clip again, he put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged, then Timmy bitched that he had pinged it where he wanted and dezign didn’t do it. Their problem is communication, when they go back and watch the vod they will sort it out. It got so much worse btw dude. I was in dezigns chat and Timmy continued for another probably 20 mins once he got off his own stream, don’t think we were supposed to hear it, he had a melt down for sure
he only makes mistakes when he’s overconfident, and then he tries to play it off after the game like he was just seeing into the 5th dimension and everybody else is just lost
2:10 dezign just needs to go with the call right or wrong. let the igl practice stuff so you know if you can make that call when it really matters. counter calling will be the death of this team. sadly, dezign would be dropped if not for them needing a 2nd player from the old roster for the locked in playoff spot
i mean i get what r u saying, but as timmy said dez needs a little bit of time to get comfortable with this play style, he has been the igl in almost every team that he played in and also as timmy said he was a slow igl like he always wanted to take his time while wrapping zones and stuff soo thats why sometimes you will see him get confused or something other than that i think he is a phenomenal player and beside its screams they r trying new stuff out all the time the other day dez was on valk or sometimes on newcastle u get the point(sorry for the long ass reply)
having team mates you dont have to scream at is way better................ thats 100% a trust issue from dez, he thinks he knows better and do not trust the igl's calls.
Imagine Timmy taking this on himself, "its my calling, working on the dynamic of the team" etc but Dezign wont even acknowledge the mistake but goes to explain his way by "I think this, I think that" bro what, is Timmy the igl here on no? Dezign trolling every team he joins, making stupid solo plays like a bot, not listening to his igl. Jeez
This is their biggest issue. Timmy cant just say, I’m the IGL! Listen to me! It doesn’t matter if you didn’t think it would work, I made the call! It’s on me if it doesn’t work! Until he can do that, they will never be a serious contender
You gotta remember Timmy is huge on RUclips in general for be this nice guy. Imagine if he turned into a Hal like IGL. People would most likely hate him. Even though clearly the way Hal speak is more effective. Tell Dez to stfu and listen, I’m the Igl. I made the call you execute it. Dez should understand…isn’t that exactly what he did in the Igl position. Even people like sweet talk like this it’s just more passive aggressive. Either way this non demanding demeanor ain’t working. Gen also fucked up…why did he run to save Dez? Timmy mentioned it and the quietest manners and tried to place it under the rug. One fuck up don’t justify everyone else just doing whatever they wan.
I mean you can be aggressive all you want it won't change anything if someone's not receptive of feedback. Is it really that hard to say my bad I should of zipped there? No.
Have to think about the impact of telling your IGL something is a bad call when you didn't even commit to it enough to know if it was. Messes with confidence.
No we aren’t. Timmy cost moist LAN countercalling literally everything wxltzy said during finals while getting out fragged by his IGL all tourney I cannot wait to see it happen to him now.
even if timmys call was the worse play out of the 2he called i and there wasnt time to go over it and change the plan 3 ppl committing to timmys call is better than 1 solo play
Context aside, the calmness of the discussion on Dezign's side is an improvement. Yes he made an unfavourable play on micro, hopefully comes a day he figure out how to take responsibility or defend his choice at the right fact and that, seriously will made this team golden going forward. Kudos for Timmy to care enough going through the discussion all the way calmly, dude definitely not giving up Dezign. I can see other IGL flip the table and end the discussion right away.
I mean his past interactions were someone else making a mistake no matter how small or large it was, vs him defending unexcusable mistakes with two star players. The fact there's any discussion at all is just absurd. I hope things get better, and it's a good test for dezign being on a team with two powerhouses. Dude needs to wake up and realize this may be his last opportunity.
Yes dezign response is more mature than before. But Timmy should just pop a smoke so they can cross together. Why waste a pathfinder ult? He admits it later too that a smoke would work but still talks down to dezign
Dezignful is so focused on theoretical possibilities that he isn’t present in the match itself. He either is ignoring Timmy out of ego or he’s just hella high. Either way this doesn’t look good happening so constantly. I think Timmy needs his own team as IGL.
@@user-li1eg8xz7v Seriously. Their coach is bad. Were I the coach I would have immediately said "Why didn't you listen to timmy and place the zip where he pinged" and as soon as Dezign said "I couldn't because " "Okay, so what you're saying is you suck at comms and you're bad at pathfinder? He told you to zip and pinged where and either you can zip them or you need to say you can't place a zip from where you are." Thank god they have Gen on the team who doesn't have roller brain to counter Dezign
@@SudoYETI The problem that’s gonna be the main point of them losing is Dez always begin knocked first. Plz no one is listening to Timmy, everyone is talking at the same time. They have to let Timmy actually be a IGL and not be like let’s do this or do that. I get it’s a new team but they’re not winning anything like this
What…the coach held both people responsible. He told Timmy his comm was shit and his rotation was trash and he told Dez you didn’t listen so all the other shit Timmy did wrong doesn’t really matter cause you didn’t listen in the first place. What am I missing?
Timmy just needs to say "ok you can have your own opinions on whether the play wouldve worked or not but the bottom line is IM THE IGL DO WHAT I SAY" PERIOD
I see Dezign’s POV as far how it was confusing where to start the zip. As much as it may seem clear what Timmy wanted, Dezign might have been aiming somewhere else when Timmy pinged, or processing other things (because a BR is busy). I think Timmy doesn’t realize that what he did still required a bit of mind reading to do it in the way he wanted. He should be saying “come here next to me and put a zip that ends on this specific spot; we’re gonna 3v1 this guy really quick”. Instead what Dezign got was a quick ping and “Could you put a zip here?”, which may make sense from Timmy’s angle but not necessarily Dezign’s; Dezign is left filling in the remaining gaps in logic and sometimes this happens because of it. Quick pre-emptive explanations of decisions can go a long way in clarifying things that are ambiguous if you don’t know what exactly your teammate could end up being confused about.
as a non timmy/dezign fan this is just not being pointed out enough. I see the call as being Timmys fault, theres a reason good igl's tend to start off a rotate in hectic rings with a "listen listen" comm or something to draw the other twos attention. However dezign isnt doing a good job of making it not look like a counter call with his "i don't think we ever go left" and thats the issue Timmy is having with him, it feels like a lot of people in this comment section who have just never played in a comp environment with the same 3 or 5 people every game because these are types of things that youll get better at as you play with the others and learn how they call and what to be looking for. People calling for them to drop Dezign over this are crazy lmao.
@@OwOsheApex yeah I’m actually sorta confused why Dezign even brought up the counter-call rationale. He clearly didn’t know exactly what Timmy wanted, and when they started pointing fingers at him, I guess he just reverts to this mode when it wasn’t even necessary to do so. If he had just stated it wasn’t clear what Timmy wanted, he could have avoided a lot of flak.
Dez put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged, but people are too busy hating on dezign. I will say he needs to just say “my bad” sometimes, so Timmy can move on. Zip didn’t show it here, but I was in Dezigns chat, and Timmy had a complete meltdown for another 20+ mins once he got off his own stream
@@ChildishGabito I feel like Dezign is the type of guy to be like "fuck it, I'm not going to champs", if he gets pissed off enough. Just to fuck everyone else over.
"I'm the IGL, listen to me." "But it was a bad play-" "that is my responsibility, not yours. You listen to me regardless. If we do not trust each other, we will never develop cohesion." - Literally all that needed to be said. Speak up Timmy. You're absolutely insane at this game. We're rooting for you man. We KNOW you have it in you. You've done so many amazing things already. Let's go guys. Lock in. Get comfortable being uncomfortable! :P
Half the problem is that we're watching a 15 minute video which should have been 5 seconds of Timmy telling Dezign to just shut up. He needs to take charge a little.
Seems like Timmy is just too nice to shout at dezign when necessary. Doesn't mean he has to scream like hal but he needs to straight up say "Dezign shut up im igl listen to me, if the plays bad we can argue after the game". Simple.
They really need a coach to tell them what matters when discussing these sorts of things. The problem that needs to be fixed is communication. Timmy is right... What play is better is not even the question that needs to be addressed, it's why Dezign can't listen to clear comms.
Bc Timmy wanted to waste a pathfinder ult instead of using his tactical smoke as a Bangalore just to cross 20 meters?? lol and admits that a smoke would work too
I dont know why theres a drama being made out of this, but i may as well add my two cents. It makes sense that dezign was confused when timmy is telling him he wants to zipline straight into a teams face (then said he didnt want height afterwards, but thats clearly where he pinged). Timmy can't blame dezign until he starts clearly explaining what he wants. He spends way too much time mumbling about stuff, asking questions and not giving clear instructions. Im sure they'll get their chemistry right soon, though.
I think its clear that the execution was terrible, partly on Timmy but mostly on Dezign. But when someone is used to their role as an IGL for so long, got to give him time to adapt. Timmy isnt the best most efficient communicator either. Keep working out the kinks. I like this
Timmy is the igl now, so they all should listen to him whether it's a good play or not. At the end of the day, it's no different than the struggles Dezinful had when he was the igl making the calls(good plays or not) and Timmy and Enemy would make mistakes not following the call. I will say I think it's harder for Dezinful to let go and just listen to Timmy(good calls or bad) as the IGL cause his brain is probably still going crazy thinking about what to do next since he's been the IGL so long. I believe in them as a team. Hopefully, he can let it go, frag out, just shoot his gun, and listen to the play calls. Gen and Dezinful owe Timmy their best and to listen to him as their IGl. Hope they all start doing better(think they all know they're better then what's currently showed), and Timmy gets his fair chance as a IGL, and hope Dezinful gives himself a shot as the fragger or anchor roll on the team, he might thrive. Don't sell yourself short fellas, and enjoy every moment.
im not trying to dogpile Dezign, but timmy clearly called to zip and even pinged where he wanted it to go. Dezign didn't respect the call and did his own thing. even if it was the wrong play to him, he should still do it, then discuss why he thought it was wrong after. I would have blown tf up on dezign if he did that to me after i made a call
Imagine trying to IGL while dezign plays solo and refuses to listen to the call. If Tim had done that while dezign was calling the plays there wud be 9 minutes of SCREAMING
Gens input in this discussion is so far removed from the actual issue timmyis having its like he isn't smart enough to see what the problem is? Same with the coach
How Timmy feels is me with my plat teammates, they magically justify what they did and come to dumb conclusions on why they lost, in turn; they never get better
Dezign just had to place a zip from where they are to where Timmy pinged. How he came to the conclusion of grappling left by himself was brain dead. If Dezign thought he had to grapple to the left to make a zip up, don't you think that Timmy would instruct the whole team to go left as well?! So frustrating, man!
Leave it to Dez to not take accountability for not setting up a Zip in the beginning then proceeds to yap endlessly about why they shouldn’t have gone that way. Like dude SHUT TF UP and listen to the IGL HOLY.
Dezign needs to listen to timmy (IGL), and stop acting like he's IGL and knows better. he never listens to timmy and its fkn annoying how he's always contesting him.
9:38 Timmy literally pinged and said zip line. (Dude proceeds to solo grapple in) can’t he just say he fucked up? Dudes got a million excuses and can’t ever take responsiblity.
Pings are not good comms in small rings, very often all three people are looking at vastly different angles and apex's audio drowns out the directional autdio of the ping, it can just take way too long to 360 and figure out what they are talking about, descriptive comms like "Dezign, can you zip us to the bottom of the rock" or "Dezign zip us right low ground." with a ping on the exact spot is the correct way to communicate this type of thing. You call their attention where to look and the ping gives the finer detail of where you want the zipline to go.
What annoys me is at 2:20 dezign is really saying that he didn't trust timmys call so instead of trusting he tried doing his own weird version of timmys call. Timmy is the IGL if it's a bad call too bad your doing it and when it turns out wrong then talk about it. But, this feels like just purposely sabotaging so Dezign can "prove" timmy is a bad IGL so the spot can go back to dezign.
Dezign trying to justify ignoring the IGL call is weird AF Whether or not he thought it was the correct play isn't relevant. Timmy should've lost his shit at the disrespect.
the trust dynamic is not as it should be😶 dezign does not trust timmy as an igl, and makes moves he thinks is better. when the igl coms a play, the immediate instinct should be to make that play.
he's got an excuse for literally everything but his own purposeful ignorance if Timmy's calls. Dezign is to blame for the fuck up there and he just won't admit it
I was expecting worse. Dezign clearly misunderstood. His strategy to make the zipline after grapple swinging alone was the issue. This is just a collide of clear direction and an execution that split the team. Any other IGL would have been blowing up. Timmy really broke it down in a super calm logical way. If he calls that ‘snapping’ that is nothing to like Hal or Zero that makes it sound personal. Hell even sweet dreams insults your intelligence. Timmy gives feedback without any of all that.
Timmy seems indecisive asf at times but at the same time he plays with a guy that is also trying to act like a IGL 💀 I get why he plays with Dezign since he has a spot for Champs
The problem isn't not doing the zip. It's the fact dezign didn't say a word, but also just didn't do it. Either listen, or describe why you think you shouldn't. Literally every good team has people that debate the plays the igl says, but in this scenario he had to just listen and do it.
This seems to be missing the fact that the initial call was bad in general for multiple reasons that Dezign brought up, and was also acknowledged by Timmy himself. Dezign may fuck up more than the average person, but I can't agree that it's all his fault here. The initial comm was confusing, and in the moment, didn't make logical sense either, and Timmy is trying to justify it by saying there were other avenues to go down if the play is done like it was meant to be. Timmy didn't even specify from what point he wanted to zip from. I understand that an IGL's call should be adhered to, but Dezign is never in this predicament if Timmy chooses a different direction to go in. Dezign at least tried to give Timmy what he wanted by attempting to find a better way to get there after the buggy zip. This conversation should've been focused more on Timmy's call more than Dezign fucking up Timmy's bad call. Bronzey even says he wasn't a big fan of going left.
@keidrickowens5863 a bad call can still work if you commit to it. Dezign didn't commit to anything Timmy said. It doesnt directly matter if the call is bad or not. That is for after the fact, let's say something like this happens at lan, where instead of listening to Timmy, dezign just sits in silence and does his own thing. Do you even know how much that can affect the whole team? Everyone's tilted from then on.
Dezign is always deflecting and never taking responsibility, he'll never grow as a player if he's just playing a solo game. Timmy should be more of a commanding presence, more assertive, more clearer of his commands.
Dezign is that one dude on the sports team that has potential, but is completely uncoachable, and unwilling to change for the greater good. Seen it happen plenty times playing sports over the years. Dudes brain is washed.
If this happened during scrims I would straight up ask Dezign are you going to listen to comms or not? If Dezign is going to listen to comms he has to show them, and if he can't he can lead until LAN time is served then expect them to leave
Opinions are cool after the play fails. Do the play, he made the call. Hal won so much when he said something and verhulst immediately did exactly what he said, no questions asked, then it worked or they failed and Hal learned to do better.
Dezign has problems admitting mistakes. This will lead to long and frustrating discussions. Gen should do his thing and shit talk him a bit. Timmy also needs to change up comms for when he makes a suggestion versus when he needs something done _now_ .
This was Dezingns mistake 100%, BUT Timmy needs to repeat crucial information more often. You see Hal, Sweet and Zero do it all the time. When you need your teammate to hear very specific instructions you have to repeat it at least 3 times until they do what you are telling them to do. This applies especially to a guy like Dezign because he is used to being the IGL and still hasn’t adjusted to listening like Gen who was always a fragger or anchor. But Timmy is going in the right direction, that was the play, if only they had pulled it off as a team.
I know people are blaming timmy or gen or dezign. just wanted DOJO to know that there are supporters like me who support them as a team and we think they can surpass this issue. Supporting both DOJO and TSM!
Dezign trying to play Valk & Path is hard to watch when Timmy & Gen are so focused and beaming 😅 By the time Dezign gets up to speed there’s a solid chance the other 2 will dip in form or want A roster change 😂
Why are they spending 10 minutes tip toeing around the issue. Like holy shit just say "I'm the igl listen to me" and then just debate whether the call was wrong.
Yeah it's not gonna work. Design isn't going to be a Fragger that listens to Timmy's igl call outs. He's over thinking every decision Timmy tries to make.
Timmys also a way better Pathy... Can dezign not play bang or something?
Timmy is a great path, but in another type of play, more casual, not in pro League, in that case, his a way better Bangalore, he has more experience playing with that character and playing inside the smoke @@berserkmonk5331
Seriously dude when Dezign kept saying “Well I think that would’ve been a bad zip” like bro stfu you are NOT the igl just do as you’re told and get mad if the play fails afterward
because dezign is a child fuck, he wont listen and wont stand being demended
and timmy is too polite too, he tries to go around all the points to make it right why his call is the good one AND at the same time saying indirectly that he should listen to the call regardless
@@juicecompadre2393i said "bro still do not understand whats going on in this conversation"
its not about having better opinion or reviewing the play, its clearly you are overruling the igl and not doing the play correctly
What's the point of having an IGL if one of the teammates isn't gonna listen to the IGL...literally just go play pubs at that point dude...
Unfortunately they need each other for champs. It’s a shame. Should have been Timmy and Enemy
@@Turntorangutan I reckon had Enemy known Timmy was coming back, he stays.
I was in Dezigns stream, Timmy went off for another 20 mins once he got off his own stream. But if you look at the vod dezign put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged lol. It wasn’t the best call, but Timmy really just needed to hear “my bad”, which Dez simply isn’t capable of. He always gives an excuse
It was an obvs call/play .. he made a solo play and left his IGL, sabotaging team. Simple. He may throw the team on the big stage
@@henry3397 idk what you smoked before watching that vod but Timmy clearly pings to zip to the bottom of the cliffs. Dez grapples to the bridge which was not where Timmy wanted to go and then sets a zip line that doesn’t even reach halfway to Timmy causing them to have to waste Cat ult trying to get Timmy over to them. I guess at least dezign isn’t alone in his terrible in game sense.
Timmy is wasting his breath on this guy. Dezigns favorite thing to do is not listen to anyone except himself. Great team player
Exactly why he keeps getting kicked off teams, dudes a clown
if not for design and their coach, timmy could've skipped a lan, do they have a last chance qual for finals? not playoffs
Watch the clip again, he put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged, then Timmy bitched that he had pinged it where he wanted and dezign didn’t do it. Their problem is communication, when they go back and watch the vod they will sort it out. It got so much worse btw dude. I was in dezigns chat and Timmy continued for another probably 20 mins once he got off his own stream, don’t think we were supposed to hear it, he had a melt down for sure
@@henry3397 timmy asked to zip them on ping, designed grappled there instead and zipped air in open field. i don't think we watched same thing
@@henry3397 the issue is that dezign literally did not put the zip where timmy pinged, what in the world are you talking about
dezign just needs to admit he made a mistake
He never does that so it's no surprise
Sad part is Rainbow Nonbinaries never believe they are wrong at anything.
Literally 95% of apex pros refuse to ever admit that they made a mistake.
its nothing they just milk this for content ,cause there is no in game content 🚱
he only makes mistakes when he’s overconfident, and then he tries to play it off after the game like he was just seeing into the 5th dimension and everybody else is just lost
Timmy is being too nice and allowing their comms to get too cluttered, everyone needs to listen to the igl
2:10 dezign just needs to go with the call right or wrong. let the igl practice stuff so you know if you can make that call when it really matters. counter calling will be the death of this team.
sadly, dezign would be dropped if not for them needing a 2nd player from the old roster for the locked in playoff spot
i mean i get what r u saying, but as timmy said dez needs a little bit of time to get comfortable with this play style, he has been the igl in almost every team that he played in and also as timmy said he was a slow igl like he always wanted to take his time while wrapping zones and stuff soo thats why sometimes you will see him get confused or something other than that i think he is a phenomenal player and beside its screams they r trying new stuff out all the time the other day dez was on valk or sometimes on newcastle u get the point(sorry for the long ass reply)
@@darknight5230I thought Dez was comfortable being comfortable 😂
@@darknight5230he needs time to do what his IGL says? Pathetic
Timmy also needs to speak up, dude is too quiet
4 real
and if he speaks up or louder the "Feelings" will kick in on Rainbow nonbinary Design and it will do as IT always does cry and complain.
thats so funny. there is a literal team fight going on and he is borderline whispering lol
having team mates you dont have to scream at is way better................
thats 100% a trust issue from dez, he thinks he knows better and do not trust the igl's calls.
you don't need to be loud to communicate. Dez heard him, clearly, because he was counter-calling it. It really is just a "Execute the call" problem.
Imagine Timmy taking this on himself, "its my calling, working on the dynamic of the team" etc but Dezign wont even acknowledge the mistake but goes to explain his way by "I think this, I think that" bro what, is Timmy the igl here on no? Dezign trolling every team he joins, making stupid solo plays like a bot, not listening to his igl. Jeez
This is their biggest issue. Timmy cant just say, I’m the IGL! Listen to me! It doesn’t matter if you didn’t think it would work, I made the call! It’s on me if it doesn’t work! Until he can do that, they will never be a serious contender
Hard agree.
You gotta remember Timmy is huge on RUclips in general for be this nice guy.
Imagine if he turned into a Hal like IGL. People would most likely hate him.
Even though clearly the way Hal speak is more effective. Tell Dez to stfu and listen, I’m the Igl. I made the call you execute it.
Dez should understand…isn’t that exactly what he did in the Igl position. Even people like sweet talk like this it’s just more passive aggressive. Either way this non demanding demeanor ain’t working.
Gen also fucked up…why did he run to save Dez? Timmy mentioned it and the quietest manners and tried to place it under the rug. One fuck up don’t justify everyone else just doing whatever they wan.
Hal got 20th last split. Wow works so well 😂😂@whos_agent2129
I mean you can be aggressive all you want it won't change anything if someone's not receptive of feedback. Is it really that hard to say my bad I should of zipped there? No.
Have to think about the impact of telling your IGL something is a bad call when you didn't even commit to it enough to know if it was. Messes with confidence.
Timmy needs to stop saying “can you” before shot calls as IGL
timmy is starting to feel the pain of being an igl
I hope Dezign is comfortable being uncomfortable
So basically they have an IGL but dezign prefers to think and act by himself
I just wanna give Timmy a hug and tell him we’re all cheering for them
🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
Gay
what does timmy taste like?
@@counterfeitpills7621 that's crazy 😭😭😭 lmao
No we aren’t. Timmy cost moist LAN countercalling literally everything wxltzy said during finals while getting out fragged by his IGL all tourney I cannot wait to see it happen to him now.
Enemy >> Dezign
true
this is why the way hal led his team WORKED
I’m starting to realize that now
Lol there's so many times Evan ignored Hal and killed entire teams by himself
can't believe it's taken people 4 years to realize this lol
@@ProxyR99 typical evan d rider
even if timmys call was the worse play out of the 2he called i and there wasnt time to go over it and change the plan 3 ppl committing to timmys call is better than 1 solo play
Context aside, the calmness of the discussion on Dezign's side is an improvement.
Yes he made an unfavourable play on micro, hopefully comes a day he figure out how to take responsibility or defend his choice at the right fact and that, seriously will made this team golden going forward.
Kudos for Timmy to care enough going through the discussion all the way calmly, dude definitely not giving up Dezign. I can see other IGL flip the table and end the discussion right away.
I mean his past interactions were someone else making a mistake no matter how small or large it was, vs him defending unexcusable mistakes with two star players. The fact there's any discussion at all is just absurd. I hope things get better, and it's a good test for dezign being on a team with two powerhouses. Dude needs to wake up and realize this may be his last opportunity.
Yes dezign response is more mature than before. But Timmy should just pop a smoke so they can cross together. Why waste a pathfinder ult? He admits it later too that a smoke would work but still talks down to dezign
Dezignful is so focused on theoretical possibilities that he isn’t present in the match itself.
He either is ignoring Timmy out of ego or he’s just hella high.
Either way this doesn’t look good happening so constantly.
I think Timmy needs his own team as IGL.
This is what kumbaya and sunshine looks like. Three grown men tip toeing around a simple issue. “I’m IGL, listen to me!”
They need a real coach that will hold people accountable for mistakes.
Some how the coach is always putting shit on Timmy and no one else
@@user-li1eg8xz7v Seriously. Their coach is bad. Were I the coach I would have immediately said "Why didn't you listen to timmy and place the zip where he pinged" and as soon as Dezign said "I couldn't because " "Okay, so what you're saying is you suck at comms and you're bad at pathfinder? He told you to zip and pinged where and either you can zip them or you need to say you can't place a zip from where you are." Thank god they have Gen on the team who doesn't have roller brain to counter Dezign
@@SudoYETI The problem that’s gonna be the main point of them losing is Dez always begin knocked first. Plz no one is listening to Timmy, everyone is talking at the same time. They have to let Timmy actually be a IGL and not be like let’s do this or do that. I get it’s a new team but they’re not winning anything like this
What…the coach held both people responsible.
He told Timmy his comm was shit and his rotation was trash and he told Dez you didn’t listen so all the other shit Timmy did wrong doesn’t really matter cause you didn’t listen in the first place.
What am I missing?
dezign bullying enemy, but now enemy is dezign.
Timmy gotta remember, if he did a play like that design would’ve yelled/ swore and rage quitted scrims in the time span of 3 mins
Timmy just needs to say "ok you can have your own opinions on whether the play wouldve worked or not but the bottom line is IM THE IGL DO WHAT I SAY" PERIOD
I would have just ripped into dezign not gonna lie, this some beating around the bush bs.
Timmy is too nice. Just say it. “Listen to me, do what I say.”
DROP DEZIGN HES SO WASHED
Dezign has the champs spot. not Timmy and Gen
@@nckgg1 Damn you right
I see Dezign’s POV as far how it was confusing where to start the zip. As much as it may seem clear what Timmy wanted, Dezign might have been aiming somewhere else when Timmy pinged, or processing other things (because a BR is busy). I think Timmy doesn’t realize that what he did still required a bit of mind reading to do it in the way he wanted. He should be saying “come here next to me and put a zip that ends on this specific spot; we’re gonna 3v1 this guy really quick”. Instead what Dezign got was a quick ping and “Could you put a zip here?”, which may make sense from Timmy’s angle but not necessarily Dezign’s; Dezign is left filling in the remaining gaps in logic and sometimes this happens because of it.
Quick pre-emptive explanations of decisions can go a long way in clarifying things that are ambiguous if you don’t know what exactly your teammate could end up being confused about.
as a non timmy/dezign fan this is just not being pointed out enough. I see the call as being Timmys fault, theres a reason good igl's tend to start off a rotate in hectic rings with a "listen listen" comm or something to draw the other twos attention. However dezign isnt doing a good job of making it not look like a counter call with his "i don't think we ever go left" and thats the issue Timmy is having with him, it feels like a lot of people in this comment section who have just never played in a comp environment with the same 3 or 5 people every game because these are types of things that youll get better at as you play with the others and learn how they call and what to be looking for. People calling for them to drop Dezign over this are crazy lmao.
devil's advocate, good point. but i think this is one instance of many where dezign is second guessing timmy's calls
@@OwOsheApex yeah I’m actually sorta confused why Dezign even brought up the counter-call rationale. He clearly didn’t know exactly what Timmy wanted, and when they started pointing fingers at him, I guess he just reverts to this mode when it wasn’t even necessary to do so. If he had just stated it wasn’t clear what Timmy wanted, he could have avoided a lot of flak.
@@supdawg7811 i think dezign got overwhelmed at that point, and couldn't even tell what the main issue was. understandably so to be fair.
Dez put the zip exactly where Timmy pinged, but people are too busy hating on dezign. I will say he needs to just say “my bad” sometimes, so Timmy can move on. Zip didn’t show it here, but I was in Dezigns chat, and Timmy had a complete meltdown for another 20+ mins once he got off his own stream
dezign played that horribly, but timmy is not assertive and said it once, low energy, unclear calls
kinda feel like he is scared of dezign lowkey
@@ChildishGabito not scared of him, just sick of him lol.. he sounds exhausted
@@ChildishGabito I feel like Dezign is the type of guy to be like "fuck it, I'm not going to champs", if he gets pissed off enough. Just to fuck everyone else over.
Dezign sitting on the orb of confusion every game I swear
I love how Gen's just there chilling while Dezign is getting roasted 😂
"I'm the IGL, listen to me." "But it was a bad play-" "that is my responsibility, not yours. You listen to me regardless. If we do not trust each other, we will never develop cohesion." - Literally all that needed to be said.
Speak up Timmy. You're absolutely insane at this game. We're rooting for you man. We KNOW you have it in you. You've done so many amazing things already. Let's go guys. Lock in. Get comfortable being uncomfortable! :P
i don't know what to call this game content anymore, is it drama legends or apex beef
Design is the embodiment of ranked plat players
Half the problem is that we're watching a 15 minute video which should have been 5 seconds of Timmy telling Dezign to just shut up. He needs to take charge a little.
Timmy needs to be way more assertive with this shit. I’ve seen Dezign make braindead plays and consistently ignore his IGL. Timmy is way too nice.
bro this clip is not real how are the most clear comms being disregarded this might have been the worst display of teamwork I have ever seen no cap
Dezign is not comfortable being uncomfortable
timmy really said "fine ill hold your fucking hand thru each game if you arent going to listen to my comms". lmao
Seems like Timmy is just too nice to shout at dezign when necessary. Doesn't mean he has to scream like hal but he needs to straight up say "Dezign shut up im igl listen to me, if the plays bad we can argue after the game". Simple.
They really need a coach to tell them what matters when discussing these sorts of things. The problem that needs to be fixed is communication. Timmy is right... What play is better is not even the question that needs to be addressed, it's why Dezign can't listen to clear comms.
They spent so much time on this because it's a teachable moment for the team, it'll make them better as a whole.
timmy is so frustrating to listen to. so many false starts on statements and tripping over words. slow down and say a full sentence.
hes tryna be nice cause remeber hes still on stream and he is known for being nice on stream
I wrote this in another comment. Its obvious Design has a listening problem. He;d be really good if he became a really good listener
Making a bad play then not taking accountability is crazy.. Timmy, it ain’t worth it Dezign is a lost cause
Bc Timmy wanted to waste a pathfinder ult instead of using his tactical smoke as a Bangalore just to cross 20 meters?? lol and admits that a smoke would work too
@@al98012 you’re right, the bang smoke and double time should have been the play from Timmy no doubt
I dont know why theres a drama being made out of this, but i may as well add my two cents. It makes sense that dezign was confused when timmy is telling him he wants to zipline straight into a teams face (then said he didnt want height afterwards, but thats clearly where he pinged). Timmy can't blame dezign until he starts clearly explaining what he wants. He spends way too much time mumbling about stuff, asking questions and not giving clear instructions. Im sure they'll get their chemistry right soon, though.
Exactly but Timmy popularity makes RUclipsrs title their videos “dezign mistake”
Dezign is not locked in but he's not washed
Agreed he just needs to knock the rust off good teams figure it out
I think its clear that the execution was terrible, partly on Timmy but mostly on Dezign.
But when someone is used to their role as an IGL for so long, got to give him time to adapt. Timmy isnt the best most efficient communicator either. Keep working out the kinks. I like this
Nothing wrong with the comms in this scenario. Timmy clearly said to zip left and pinged where he wanted to zip. Dezign is gonna dezign.
Time to adapt to zip when told to zip? Wow, bar is on the floor huh?
@@mattm7426 less about the zip and more about the mindset of just LISTENING to Timmy and not counter comm
@@iiZAPPx that's exactly what I said
@mattm7426 my bad
To be fair....Timmy said "can you zip up here over left" I feel like that could easily been taken as "you should grapple to this spot"
Timmy is the igl now, so they all should listen to him whether it's a good play or not. At the end of the day, it's no different than the struggles Dezinful had when he was the igl making the calls(good plays or not) and Timmy and Enemy would make mistakes not following the call. I will say I think it's harder for Dezinful to let go and just listen to Timmy(good calls or bad) as the IGL cause his brain is probably still going crazy thinking about what to do next since he's been the IGL so long. I believe in them as a team. Hopefully, he can let it go, frag out, just shoot his gun, and listen to the play calls. Gen and Dezinful owe Timmy their best and to listen to him as their IGl. Hope they all start doing better(think they all know they're better then what's currently showed), and Timmy gets his fair chance as a IGL, and hope Dezinful gives himself a shot as the fragger or anchor roll on the team, he might thrive. Don't sell yourself short fellas, and enjoy every moment.
im not trying to dogpile Dezign, but timmy clearly called to zip and even pinged where he wanted it to go. Dezign didn't respect the call and did his own thing. even if it was the wrong play to him, he should still do it, then discuss why he thought it was wrong after. I would have blown tf up on dezign if he did that to me after i made a call
Imagine trying to IGL while dezign plays solo and refuses to listen to the call. If Tim had done that while dezign was calling the plays there wud be 9 minutes of SCREAMING
Tbf as much as dezign was wrong what was timming doing he just sat about for 5 minutes instead of walking over with gen
Gens input in this discussion is so far removed from the actual issue timmyis having its like he isn't smart enough to see what the problem is? Same with the coach
How Timmy feels is me with my plat teammates, they magically justify what they did and come to dumb conclusions on why they lost, in turn; they never get better
I was excited that Dezign was on the team. I’m feeling less excited now due to him constantly trying to take over Timmy IGL role
I'd rather see Timmy being a bit reckless on Pathfinder rather than Dezign on Pathfinder 😂
As a spectator, we all see. D overly being calm is telling me everything I need to know
Dezign just had to place a zip from where they are to where Timmy pinged. How he came to the conclusion of grappling left by himself was brain dead. If Dezign thought he had to grapple to the left to make a zip up, don't you think that Timmy would instruct the whole team to go left as well?! So frustrating, man!
I think it’s pretty clear that this team was formed just so they could continue into champs. They have next to no cohesion at all.
Leave it to Dez to not take accountability for not setting up a Zip in the beginning then proceeds to yap endlessly about why they shouldn’t have gone that way. Like dude SHUT TF UP and listen to the IGL HOLY.
This was the light version. Right after this he went IN on dezign HARD on dez's stream. Was honestly tough to watch
I’ve listened to a lot of Timmy’s play calling in games and he bees on point.
Dezign needs to listen to timmy (IGL), and stop acting like he's IGL and knows better. he never listens to timmy and its fkn annoying how he's always contesting him.
9:38 Timmy literally pinged and said zip line. (Dude proceeds to solo grapple in) can’t he just say he fucked up? Dudes got a million excuses and can’t ever take responsiblity.
Pings are not good comms in small rings, very often all three people are looking at vastly different angles and apex's audio drowns out the directional autdio of the ping, it can just take way too long to 360 and figure out what they are talking about, descriptive comms like "Dezign, can you zip us to the bottom of the rock" or "Dezign zip us right low ground." with a ping on the exact spot is the correct way to communicate this type of thing. You call their attention where to look and the ping gives the finer detail of where you want the zipline to go.
Dezignful is literally incompatable with EVERYONE
What annoys me is at 2:20 dezign is really saying that he didn't trust timmys call so instead of trusting he tried doing his own weird version of timmys call. Timmy is the IGL if it's a bad call too bad your doing it and when it turns out wrong then talk about it. But, this feels like just purposely sabotaging so Dezign can "prove" timmy is a bad IGL so the spot can go back to dezign.
times like this is when Hals IGling is desperately needed
Dezign trying to justify ignoring the IGL call is weird AF
Whether or not he thought it was the correct play isn't relevant. Timmy should've lost his shit at the disrespect.
Dezign just needs to listen, PLAIN AND SIMPLE! WTF is this guy thinking.
the trust dynamic is not as it should be😶
dezign does not trust timmy as an igl, and makes moves he thinks is better.
when the igl coms a play, the immediate instinct should be to make that play.
he's got an excuse for literally everything but his own purposeful ignorance if Timmy's calls. Dezign is to blame for the fuck up there and he just won't admit it
Dezign has been counter calling like crazy its insane he needs to trust timmy and play controller roll
Timmy can literally show the clip that Dezign shouted at Gent to Dezign himself lmao.
still w8ing for the break down moment.... this is the calmest discusion ever lol
"breaking it down" explaining. not crying man
I was expecting worse.
Dezign clearly misunderstood.
His strategy to make the zipline after grapple swinging alone was the issue.
This is just a collide of clear direction and an execution that split the team.
Any other IGL would have been blowing up. Timmy really broke it down in a super calm logical way. If he calls that ‘snapping’ that is nothing to like Hal or Zero that makes it sound personal. Hell even sweet dreams insults your intelligence.
Timmy gives feedback without any of all that.
Timmy seems indecisive asf at times but at the same time he plays with a guy that is also trying to act like a IGL 💀 I get why he plays with Dezign since he has a spot for Champs
Dezign really made the dumbest play in all BLGS yet and he is dumbfounded at what he was actually asked to do
There is a time when Haling on your teammate is understandable, and this was it.
The problem isn't not doing the zip. It's the fact dezign didn't say a word, but also just didn't do it. Either listen, or describe why you think you shouldn't. Literally every good team has people that debate the plays the igl says, but in this scenario he had to just listen and do it.
This seems to be missing the fact that the initial call was bad in general for multiple reasons that Dezign brought up, and was also acknowledged by Timmy himself. Dezign may fuck up more than the average person, but I can't agree that it's all his fault here. The initial comm was confusing, and in the moment, didn't make logical sense either, and Timmy is trying to justify it by saying there were other avenues to go down if the play is done like it was meant to be. Timmy didn't even specify from what point he wanted to zip from. I understand that an IGL's call should be adhered to, but Dezign is never in this predicament if Timmy chooses a different direction to go in. Dezign at least tried to give Timmy what he wanted by attempting to find a better way to get there after the buggy zip. This conversation should've been focused more on Timmy's call more than Dezign fucking up Timmy's bad call. Bronzey even says he wasn't a big fan of going left.
@keidrickowens5863 this was brought up after the fact. You either do it, or debate it while your alive. You don't sit in silence and ignore your igl.
@keidrickowens5863 a bad call can still work if you commit to it. Dezign didn't commit to anything Timmy said. It doesnt directly matter if the call is bad or not. That is for after the fact, let's say something like this happens at lan, where instead of listening to Timmy, dezign just sits in silence and does his own thing. Do you even know how much that can affect the whole team? Everyone's tilted from then on.
what a pain of a teammate
Dezign is always deflecting and never taking responsibility, he'll never grow as a player if he's just playing a solo game. Timmy should be more of a commanding presence, more assertive, more clearer of his commands.
i've never heard dezign admit that he was wrong. he has to be right all the time
Dezign is that one dude on the sports team that has potential, but is completely uncoachable, and unwilling to change for the greater good. Seen it happen plenty times playing sports over the years. Dudes brain is washed.
Does this team not have a coach? Timmy is doing all the talking the idk if that random guy talking is their coach but he actually gotta do his job
I’m no pro. I am above average at the game, and I even understood what Timmy meant
If this happened during scrims I would straight up ask Dezign are you going to listen to comms or not? If Dezign is going to listen to comms he has to show them, and if he can't he can lead until LAN time is served then expect them to leave
Soft af "leader"
The real question is why isn’t Timmy playing Pathfinder…
Opinions are cool after the play fails. Do the play, he made the call. Hal won so much when he said something and verhulst immediately did exactly what he said, no questions asked, then it worked or they failed and Hal learned to do better.
name a team where pathfinder is ziplining backwards in a pro lobby LMAOOOO
I wish Dezign would just quit the scene lmao
Then they just can’t play the ALGS championship🤷🏻♂️
He won’t. It’s free money for him and whoever is willing to put up with his dumbass
Imagine wishing on another man’s downfall💀 take his tip out your mouth its unbecoming of you
@@lowdopamine1 wtf
@@lowdopamine1Lmaoo great anime profile picture. You are super credible and we should for sure take you seriously
Dezign has problems admitting mistakes. This will lead to long and frustrating discussions. Gen should do his thing and shit talk him a bit.
Timmy also needs to change up comms for when he makes a suggestion versus when he needs something done _now_ .
This was Dezingns mistake 100%, BUT Timmy needs to repeat crucial information more often. You see Hal, Sweet and Zero do it all the time. When you need your teammate to hear very specific instructions you have to repeat it at least 3 times until they do what you are telling them to do. This applies especially to a guy like Dezign because he is used to being the IGL and still hasn’t adjusted to listening like Gen who was always a fragger or anchor. But Timmy is going in the right direction, that was the play, if only they had pulled it off as a team.
I know people are blaming timmy or gen or dezign. just wanted DOJO to know that there are supporters like me who support them as a team and we think they can surpass this issue. Supporting both DOJO and TSM!
Theres a certain tone that an IGL has to set, and timmy just isnt doing that.
Dezign just put your ego aside and follow orders, then you can't get in trouble if something goes wrong
I thought Timmy was IGL? Dezign simply can never admit when he's wrong lol
People dont understands designguls always been a player where he thinks he knows best.
Dezign trying to play Valk & Path is hard to watch when Timmy & Gen are so focused and beaming 😅 By the time Dezign gets up to speed there’s a solid chance the other 2 will dip in form or want A roster change 😂