Great video. I got my 4x5 intrepid mkll four years ago and last year added the 8x10 mkll also . Great cameras, yes they have there problems but once you understand them they can create great work. Keep this content coming, many thanks.
Thank you! I can't wait to start using the MKIV in earnest later this year. I have the Gibellini to use a bit more first. My sincere hope is that the 4X5 content I'm planning on this year really improves the ability of learning film photographers to accept the format and grow their photographic skills.
Thanks David,. Large format is not for everyone but for me it was budget that decided choice and intrepid was the first option. I have 85 to 90% of the movement I require, the rest I manipulate to the optomal. If it was not for intrepid and the likes, I would not be doing LF today. Good luck with the rest of your videos.
Love the vids, and would love to see more large format, and maybe recommendations of vintage or used models for getting into large format, or if the newer ones shown here are a better choice.
10-4 on that. My next LF video will be an explanation of movements. I'm going to write it soon. I do hope to move into some more LF video manuals and technique videos, too. The movements video might be very helpful as it will compare asymmetrical vs axial movements and look at how monorails differ from field cameras.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm in the process of ditching my Toyo-View 45CX for something more like one of these; it was great to learn about camera movements on, but it's far too big for any practical shooting. I will likely end up going with an Intrepid since I mostly shoot portraits and tend to use longer/heavier lenses and you're not the first person to comment on how stable a platform they are within this price point.
yes, good point about wide-angle lenses on the intrepid, same as the Linhof tecknika cameras, that's why they had a drop_bed design, lowest notch, and the focussing bellows lens board adaptor, to focus the 65 mm lens, OR with the 5x7" / 8x10" place the standard on a special tray in the rear, and focus with a pinion on the body of the camera.
@@DavidHancock no worries, but this also makes a better design (linhof) as the track system approach shifting the standard on a rail, and NOT unmounting it every lens change, would be not only quicker, BUT importantly safer, both for scratching the standard, but also for the lens itself; also the "stops" on the linhof track are micro adjustable, so any infinity focusing issues, you can adjust out!! but the real boon of the design, is it means the standard is stored inside the back standard, and with the bed in front!!- virtually fully enclosed!!- with lens ON! ready to shoot in 1 minute or less!
Which 90mm are you using on the Intrepid? I have the Black edition (Same as the MKiv) and shoot it all the time with my Nikkor SW 90mm and have never had the bed of the camera be in the frame? Ive heard thats an issue with a 75mm but not on 90mm.
I have an Astragon, also branded Congo and Takashi, I think. It's almost flat on the lens board and the front element is recessed into the Seiko 0 shutter. I can leave it on some field cameras and collapse them.
I was puzzled too as many people shoot 90mm on an Intrepid....Fuji and the Super Angulon without issues. I think Intrepid says to put the standard in the second hole from the back for the 90mm otherwise too much bed will extend in front. The rear hole is for 65/75mm lenses on recessed boards, second hole is for 90mm lenses, third is 135/180'ish lenses and the front is 210mm and up.
I have two Intrepids (Fist Gen and Mk1). I am going to take the MK1 and design PLA parts to get the added functionality that the Gibelini has and then take my design and have aluminum pieces cut. The back will have all of the features that is common to the front and wing nuts will be included in the final build. Your video has been very informative and helpful, thank you.
I've no experience with using any of the PLA-printed cameras I own in either hot or humid settings, but I can understand the concern. I might choose a different camera for those locations.
just thought of a work-around, for 13:48 use a RECESSED lens board, like the linhof ones, this removes an inch or so from the spacing of the rear element to the Ground-glass; However, like the linhof boards, you NEED a linkage to the shutter release, Cable Release can't get into such a tight space!
The other challenge there is that the front of the camera will be even further into the lens' field of view. So it would need to be an offset recessed board.
@@DavidHancock yes, true for the 15deg setting, but for this to work on ultra wide, you use the camera with the three latch drop_bed, the THIRD notch (30 DEG down), is enough to clear the angle of view (if not, you also tilt the lens up!-paralell to the film, in this case).
hey, I just thought of something in regards the wide-angle lenses, these field cameras are NOT meant for anything under 90 mm for the 75, 65,47 & 38mm lenses, you need a different camera design, like a Monorail (standards can go tight up together), chamonix H-1 ( operates similarly), sinar handy, Alpha TC, etc. which allow a short distance between the lens and film plane, these allow the lens to focus correctly, the Linhof technika is a compromise between these, and a field camera design, both on the one platform.
Yes and no. With the Intrepid, you're spot-on. The Proxima can collapse to about 40mm by moving the rear standard forward and, I think, with a slightly recessed board can house a 47mm lens without the camera body getting in the frame (my widest is a 72mm, so I can't check anything more than that, and 72mm is really pushing it for the standard bellows -- anything wider would need the bag bellows.) The Intrepid can use wider lenses with a bed-drop technique, but it's a royal pain in the rear. My widest lens for the Intrepid is a 90mm and that's what I'd stick to there, with an exception for one of the handful of retrofocus ultrawide 4X5 lenses.
Are the gibellini bellows the same color on the inside as on the outside? I like the look of white bellows but I don’t think it’d be a good idea unless they were darkened on the inside.
Nope! They are all black on the inside regardless of the outer color. I also really like the look of a white bellows on a black camera, especially, but I've heard from acquaintances with white-bellowed cameras that the white bellows get dirty fast, show dirt easily, and are a pain to clean well.
Actually, not yet. I have to make the video manuals and review for both. I am planning to sell the Proxima later this year and the Intrepid early next.
@@JRodriquez-y4k not yet, but another Proxima is listed used on eBay for 680 USD. I may sell mine for a bit less given the use and that I've marked it up in a couple of places.
I bought the intrepid about a year and a half ago. It has two main weak points: The hardware on the front standard controlling tilts is subject to failure (nut pulls through or falls off), and the pens holding the ground glass hold onto the back are not glued in and can come out as you pull your ground glass back. These issues don't show up in youtube reviews because they take a while to develop. But after 1.5 years and about 70 sheets and 20 trips, I've had 3 different issues along these lines. Intrepid has good customer service and will send free parts to repair it, but for me the hassle and missed shots were too much. I've replaced it with a used Wista DX.
Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for those. Those will show up in my review if they happen. I tend to use a camera for about 18 months before reviewing it and take anywhere from 400 to 1,200 photos to get the 120-200 that I use in a review.
Much different cameras. Those are monorails and they're in a way more complex because they have a full suite of movements. They're also large and heavy. I had a few Calumet camera models including all of the 400-series bodies at one point. I did not enjoy using them as much as I like using a field camera, however. Also the Calumet cameras are better for studio work, still life images, and so forth. So it's a horses for courses situation with what type of camera fits your needs best.
And the winner is ......... SCHNEIDER!! Schneider dis, nor dat. Or so it seems to me. I am in the market for something light, precise, and easily operable to get about and continue my formalist documentation of the built environment after a stroke which has impacted mobility and fine motor skills in the right hand somewhat. The Toyo 45 A II and Horseman 45FA fail on the grounds of 75mm lens capability which leads me to wonder what your findings of 'non-folders' such as the Chamonix 45 Hs-1 or the Shen Hao 45 might be in terms of build quality and function. The She Hao does present an advantage in that it uses Sinar bellows and I already have a Sinar bag bellows 1. But fabrication of wooden cameras is a mystery to me. Curriosity runs rampant.
@@DavidHancock I had a Holga 612 pinhole and loved the results but I have 72mm Super Angulon XL, 120mm Super Angulon and a 210mm Apo Symmar and I revere how they respond to my adventures waving sheets of film at the world. I can't go forth without assistance for all sorts of security reasons beyond anything else. It's really just about something that will do what needs to be done with reliability and precision. Those non-folders look to be an answer but there are so few reviews online with your erudite level of appraisal.
@@walterglover3423 With the huge caveat that I've never held either a Chamonix or Shen Hao, I've heard they're both very well made with a slight edge in the Chamonix for usability due to the knob design and size. I considered a Chamonix seriously but the model I wanted lacked some front movements I felt I would need, and while I suspect a Dremel could correct that I didn't want to try. Not to throw a wrench in the works, have you looked at Canham? I've not held one yet but literally every single person I know of who has indicated it's the best 4x5 they've used.
Great video. I got my 4x5 intrepid mkll four years ago and last year added the 8x10 mkll also . Great cameras, yes they have there problems but once you understand them they can create great work. Keep this content coming, many thanks.
Thank you! I can't wait to start using the MKIV in earnest later this year. I have the Gibellini to use a bit more first. My sincere hope is that the 4X5 content I'm planning on this year really improves the ability of learning film photographers to accept the format and grow their photographic skills.
Thanks David,. Large format is not for everyone but for me it was budget that decided choice and intrepid was the first option. I have 85 to 90% of the movement I require, the rest I manipulate to the optomal. If it was not for intrepid and the likes, I would not be doing LF today.
Good luck with the rest of your videos.
Love the vids, and would love to see more large format, and maybe recommendations of vintage or used models for getting into large format, or if the newer ones shown here are a better choice.
10-4 on that. My next LF video will be an explanation of movements. I'm going to write it soon. I do hope to move into some more LF video manuals and technique videos, too.
The movements video might be very helpful as it will compare asymmetrical vs axial movements and look at how monorails differ from field cameras.
Interesting review. Never knew Gibellini also makes entry level 4x5...
And their newer ones are nicer than mine.
Great video, thanks for sharing. I'm in the process of ditching my Toyo-View 45CX for something more like one of these; it was great to learn about camera movements on, but it's far too big for any practical shooting.
I will likely end up going with an Intrepid since I mostly shoot portraits and tend to use longer/heavier lenses and you're not the first person to comment on how stable a platform they are within this price point.
I like the Intrepid. The front standard screw-in style that the Intrepid uses is a bit wonky, but beyond that all the usability designs are great.
Thank you
Thank you!
Super good work there. Thanks.
Thank you!
A great comparison video, thanks.
Thank you!
yes, good point about wide-angle lenses on the intrepid, same as the Linhof tecknika cameras, that's why they had a drop_bed design, lowest notch, and the focussing bellows lens board adaptor, to focus the 65 mm lens, OR with the 5x7" / 8x10" place the standard on a special tray in the rear, and focus with a pinion on the body of the camera.
Thank you!
@@DavidHancock no worries, but this also makes a better design (linhof) as the track system approach shifting the standard on a rail, and NOT unmounting it every lens change, would be not only quicker, BUT importantly safer, both for scratching the standard, but also for the lens itself; also the "stops" on the linhof track are micro adjustable, so any infinity focusing issues, you can adjust out!! but the real boon of the design, is it means the standard is stored inside the back standard, and with the bed in front!!- virtually fully enclosed!!- with lens ON! ready to shoot in 1 minute or less!
Which 90mm are you using on the Intrepid? I have the Black edition (Same as the MKiv) and shoot it all the time with my Nikkor SW 90mm and have never had the bed of the camera be in the frame? Ive heard thats an issue with a 75mm but not on 90mm.
I have an Astragon, also branded Congo and Takashi, I think. It's almost flat on the lens board and the front element is recessed into the Seiko 0 shutter. I can leave it on some field cameras and collapse them.
I was puzzled too as many people shoot 90mm on an Intrepid....Fuji and the Super Angulon without issues. I think Intrepid says to put the standard in the second hole from the back for the 90mm otherwise too much bed will extend in front. The rear hole is for 65/75mm lenses on recessed boards, second hole is for 90mm lenses, third is 135/180'ish lenses and the front is 210mm and up.
I have two Intrepids (Fist Gen and Mk1). I am going to take the MK1 and design PLA parts to get the added functionality that the Gibelini has and then take my design and have aluminum pieces cut. The back will have all of the features that is common to the front and wing nuts will be included in the final build. Your video has been very informative and helpful, thank you.
Nice and thank you! I would love it if the Intepids could focus like the Gibellini.
I would be concerned about the Gibellini in hot, humid environments. PLA is not the best filament for 3D printing. It's just easy to work with.
I've no experience with using any of the PLA-printed cameras I own in either hot or humid settings, but I can understand the concern. I might choose a different camera for those locations.
just thought of a work-around, for 13:48 use a RECESSED lens board, like the linhof ones, this removes an inch or so from the spacing of the rear element to the Ground-glass; However, like the linhof boards, you NEED a linkage to the shutter release, Cable Release can't get into such a tight space!
The other challenge there is that the front of the camera will be even further into the lens' field of view. So it would need to be an offset recessed board.
@@DavidHancock yes, true for the 15deg setting, but for this to work on ultra wide, you use the camera with the three latch drop_bed, the THIRD notch (30 DEG down), is enough to clear the angle of view (if not, you also tilt the lens up!-paralell to the film, in this case).
hey, I just thought of something in regards the wide-angle lenses, these field cameras are NOT meant for anything under 90 mm for the 75, 65,47 & 38mm lenses, you need a different camera design, like a Monorail (standards can go tight up together), chamonix H-1 ( operates similarly), sinar handy, Alpha TC, etc. which allow a short distance between the lens and film plane, these allow the lens to focus correctly, the Linhof technika is a compromise between these, and a field camera design, both on the one platform.
Yes and no. With the Intrepid, you're spot-on. The Proxima can collapse to about 40mm by moving the rear standard forward and, I think, with a slightly recessed board can house a 47mm lens without the camera body getting in the frame (my widest is a 72mm, so I can't check anything more than that, and 72mm is really pushing it for the standard bellows -- anything wider would need the bag bellows.) The Intrepid can use wider lenses with a bed-drop technique, but it's a royal pain in the rear. My widest lens for the Intrepid is a 90mm and that's what I'd stick to there, with an exception for one of the handful of retrofocus ultrawide 4X5 lenses.
Thanks. In terms of rigidity, what components on the Gibellini seem to be the least robust ? (esp with heavy lens in place) ?
The front standards at the rise and tilt knobs. It doesn't drop but it tilts given enough time with my 360 f.5.5 Schneider Arton.
Are the gibellini bellows the same color on the inside as on the outside? I like the look of white bellows but I don’t think it’d be a good idea unless they were darkened on the inside.
Nope! They are all black on the inside regardless of the outer color. I also really like the look of a white bellows on a black camera, especially, but I've heard from acquaintances with white-bellowed cameras that the white bellows get dirty fast, show dirt easily, and are a pain to clean well.
Just saw your video,,, it’s a long shot but you mentioned that you would be selling the two cameras, would they still be available?
Actually, not yet. I have to make the video manuals and review for both. I am planning to sell the Proxima later this year and the Intrepid early next.
@@DavidHancock thanks for the reply,,, do you know what you might be asking for them?
@@JRodriquez-y4k not yet, but another Proxima is listed used on eBay for 680 USD. I may sell mine for a bit less given the use and that I've marked it up in a couple of places.
just a heads up, your title says 5x5
Thank you! Fixed.
I bought the intrepid about a year and a half ago. It has two main weak points: The hardware on the front standard controlling tilts is subject to failure (nut pulls through or falls off), and the pens holding the ground glass hold onto the back are not glued in and can come out as you pull your ground glass back. These issues don't show up in youtube reviews because they take a while to develop. But after 1.5 years and about 70 sheets and 20 trips, I've had 3 different issues along these lines. Intrepid has good customer service and will send free parts to repair it, but for me the hassle and missed shots were too much. I've replaced it with a used Wista DX.
Thank you! I'll keep an eye out for those. Those will show up in my review if they happen. I tend to use a camera for about 18 months before reviewing it and take anywhere from 400 to 1,200 photos to get the 120-200 that I use in a review.
@@DavidHancock I wonder how much that Wista cost him?
@@lensman5762 $500 used. I have since replace the bellows. So about $600 total.
Hi! I’m looking into large format photography and your video really helped.
Ps: are we related?
Thank you! And probably. Go back far enough and there was one person in England whose last name was Hancock. All the Hancocks are his descendents.
What do you think about the Camulete
Much different cameras. Those are monorails and they're in a way more complex because they have a full suite of movements. They're also large and heavy. I had a few Calumet camera models including all of the 400-series bodies at one point. I did not enjoy using them as much as I like using a field camera, however. Also the Calumet cameras are better for studio work, still life images, and so forth. So it's a horses for courses situation with what type of camera fits your needs best.
And the winner is ......... SCHNEIDER!! Schneider dis, nor dat. Or so it seems to me. I am in the market for something light, precise, and easily operable to get about and continue my formalist documentation of the built environment after a stroke which has impacted mobility and fine motor skills in the right hand somewhat. The Toyo 45 A II and Horseman 45FA fail on the grounds of 75mm lens capability which leads me to wonder what your findings of 'non-folders' such as the Chamonix 45 Hs-1 or the Shen Hao 45 might be in terms of build quality and function. The She Hao does present an advantage in that it uses Sinar bellows and I already have a Sinar bag bellows 1. But fabrication of wooden cameras is a mystery to me. Curriosity runs rampant.
Open to a pinhole camera?
@@DavidHancock I had a Holga 612 pinhole and loved the results but I have 72mm Super Angulon XL, 120mm Super Angulon and a 210mm Apo Symmar and I revere how they respond to my adventures waving sheets of film at the world. I can't go forth without assistance for all sorts of security reasons beyond anything else. It's really just about something that will do what needs to be done with reliability and precision. Those non-folders look to be an answer but there are so few reviews online with your erudite level of appraisal.
@@walterglover3423 With the huge caveat that I've never held either a Chamonix or Shen Hao, I've heard they're both very well made with a slight edge in the Chamonix for usability due to the knob design and size. I considered a Chamonix seriously but the model I wanted lacked some front movements I felt I would need, and while I suspect a Dremel could correct that I didn't want to try. Not to throw a wrench in the works, have you looked at Canham? I've not held one yet but literally every single person I know of who has indicated it's the best 4x5 they've used.
Do we really need another video that's already been done by many others? Father?
Of course we do.