Awesome Nathan. Thanks. I bought my 2001 knowing it had this issue. I had a reputable shop here near me do the repair for $2200, which is a lot of money for me. I'm posting that so others can get a feel for the price. I had one other shop say $2500. One thing you have mentioned before, and was confirmed when we got into my car was the oil filter. Since they are so accessible, it makes a ton of sense to pull it for inspection if you suspect your guides are failing. Mine was saturated with aluminum pieces and flakes. A sure sign of internal damage. You can also sight down the oil fill hole with a flashlight and get a look at the chain and the guides. And of course, drop the oil pan and sift out the plastic. It's such a shame that Hans and Franz in Germany left as all holding the bag from shitty plastic pieces on these otherwise amazing machines....window regulators, sun roofs, cup holders...all garbage. I would have done this job myself, but at the time I just saved up the money from working overtime at work and left it to the pros. I did that BEFORE seeing your very good video on how to do the repair. With the tool set you mentioned and some common sense and not being in a rush, the job is doable. The thing is, I still have a cold start rattle, and I still have what really must be a bad lifter. The rhythm of the second noise tells me its cam related...too slow to be a piston, etc. I've seen your vid on inspecting the lifters, and one where you had just a crazy amount of gunked up lifters in one engine! I want/need to get in and pull the cams and inspect the lifters. Can those be replaced with new ones? What about wear on the cams themselves...I mean aren't they sort of matched to the lifter after a lot of miles? (I'm at 138k). The other thing I've come across on the forums is the check valve that is behind the vanos module. If I'm not mistaken it can fail and prevent oil from staying in the upper part of the engine and can result in a brief rattle at start up until the oil gets distributed into the rest of the engine. It looks like an easy fix, can you discuss it? The other thing I didn't do, nor did my mechanic, is to address the oil pump as you mentioned (I will call and confirm this, but I'm not aware that he did, though the pan was dropped). Are you suggesting we pull the pan and use some Brakekleen or something to get residual gunk, aluminum and plastic out of it? (that's gotta be the dumbest question I've ever asked) So pull the pan, clean the screen and pump (replace the screen?), then seal a new gasket and reinstall the pan? Sounds pretty straight forward. Sorry for the long post. I know there are a lot of enthusiasts out there who just need the confidence (plus the time, tools and a bit of $$) to do these jobs, and you generously provide the teaching that gives that confidence! Thank you brother!!!!
Yes, you must clean debris from pick-up tube and you may have to clean lifters as timing chain failure imminent from tiny bits of aluminum and plastic from guide failures getting into lifters preventing operation. Make sure your lifters squeeze together freely- Super clean and freshly oil All. Don’t use sludging engine oils like QuakerState.
what is the better alternative? All brands use plastic guides for the chains. The fault is not because of plastic all cars with chains has that. I think the fault is because there is too much force on the U part. The older bmw V8 had a sprocket wheel instead and that one goes on forever.
I have a '97 540iA...non vanos...206,000 miles. Still has factory guides. Although I have changed tensioner. No noise on start up, and runs quiet. However, my 2001 740iL has 138,000 miles...it is the vanos 4.4...and I do hear occasional rattle on cold start, but gets quiet right away. Prob have the guides done by Nathan someday...I'm in Indiana so I'd need to take the car to Missouri but I'm up for road trip. Be cool to meet Nathan and see his shop and BMW graveyard! Lol. I've watched all Nathan's DIY videos...very informative I appreciate it.
This is also relevant for the 2003-2005 Range Rover which used the 4.4 M62TU BMW engine. :) I am going to be tackling this job on my project Range Rover this summer, and will probably do my 540i during the winter. Thanks Nathan!
Hi nathan i reused my old chain. But im doing the job again now .i dont get y you have to time the vanos once you lock the cams y do u have to time the vanos
Hey Nathan I just changed my alternator and my power steering pump on my E38 and I have a whining noise and can't tell which one is it any possible suggestions thanks
Can you show us the sounds the failing chain guides make? I recently bought a 2000 540i Sports Wagon, 125,000 miles, and have noticed a knocking sound but not sure about the sound you described upon cold start.
hi Nathan my timing chain guides are definitely breaking apart I have the whole motor apart I have a 1997 540 non Vanos I'm trying to figure out what parts I should change should I just change these three guides you're talking about should I also change all the chains? And what about the two top guides the guide the overhead cams? thanks for your help my car is got 240k on it compression still good so I decide to do the job
Original timing guides at 240k? If this is true, then I rest assured that it's actually the cats on my car and not the guides. Because I also have non vanos but my weird clack sound came back similar to when my cars first broke. If they're broken again, I'm doing straight pipe this time because no lol
70K - 120K miles. On the forums, it's usually quoted as around 150K miles before they go. One delaying tactic is to put on a lower-temp Thermostat and change your engine mounts to reduce vibration and heat impact on the plastic parts. 1. Drop the oil pan and look for pieces. 2. When the plastic has gone - you hear it. The timing chain is "whipping" around and making metal noise against the aluminum.
g mak I'm for trying anything to prolong guide life but none of those will buy anymore time. The higher mile cars were prob highway driven, cold starts is usually what will break them
The singing rattle on cold starts has gone since I replaced the timing chain tensioner on my car. Do you think a new stronger timing chain tensioner can buy some lifetime for the timing chain/guides ?
Yes. Over time, it appears that the timing chain tensioner - especially the original version - does lose some efficacy in keeping the tension on the chain. When I changed mine out, one could clearly see that the newer one extended more than the older one. As well - and I don't know if this was just in my case, or if it would apply to others - there was no spring in the old one. It depended purely on oil to act as a hydraulic force inside and push against the chain. If there is less side to side movement of the chain, then the main wear would be from rubbing and not from slapping. In my mind, heat and vibration are the primary enemy of plastic, and anything rubbing on that plastic will increase the wear and eventually damage. Slapping is the worst of all and can lead to cracks and breakage much sooner than vibration + heat + rubbing, IMHO.
g mak have you done the guides? Thinking on buying an e39 with the m62tüb35 and my theory checks yours. As soon as I hear some kind of noise (slapping and others) I would change the tensioner to a new one since the original is now too old and adjusting it wouldn't work much longer. And also using proper oils could do it? Im going to see the car. Should i ask someone to start the car while i am at the front with the hood open and try to hear any noises?
I've only replaced the tensioner and put in an 88C thermostat. How many miles on the car? It's very obvious if the plastic is gone on the guides. Listen to a few videos on youtube and you'll hear various different sound - but all "un-natural". You get the slapping sound - especially when rev'ing. You can also get a whine if the chain is still fairly tight but MOST of the plastic is gone (chain on aluminum - nice!). Proper oils will only go so far - but I wouldn't put anything apart from a very good synthetic in my cars. As far as the guides go, plastic continues to vulcanize under heat and becomes brittle. The hotter the engine, the more likely this is to happen. Vibration just adds to the likelihood that something will flake off.
@NathansDIYGarage I just bought a 2001 740iL. I love these cars but I have some issues. I don't think the guides are bad but I will have to check the lower oil pan. But can I just replace the chain tensioner? I didn't see one on your amazon page. Is aftermarket ok or do I need to go oem. Thanks
Changing the tension is a preventive and recommended. It is easy and yes the tension spring gets worse over time. Drop the pan and look for pieces. Go OE for these parts.
Thanks for the tips guys. One suggestion, 2 perhaps is Most people put silicone on gaskets, torque them down and leave it, applying far too much silicone and you definitely Don’t want Any of that in the oil as it will clog galleys and tear up bearings like coolant will. Recommended procedure is to place a small bead, Finger tighten, allow to cure, Then torque it down! Of course if you don’t super-clean mating surfaces of any oil residue success rates will diminish. Silicone will break down with gasoline; not recommended for timing and sump applications as gas gets in oil eventually, perhaps this is not applicable to improved silicone products?? In the 1970s & 80’s We use to use the black shellac Type stuff that was very tacky/sticky and although it was very difficult to remove, held like crazy. I still use a lot of silicone but would prefer to use the old, hard to find stuff. Thanks for the vid., you guys obviously know your stuff and yes if you shop around you can find deals on parts & kits; Read the reviews and know exactly you have the right kit!!! Thumbs of for Knowledge that we share to help the next guy with these nightmare issues of over-engineered German texhnology; Not My term! Why did Land Rover Use an old BMW Engine and not offer customers reliability like everything that is designed to fail?! They obviously didn’t consider its customers of past or future. I’m not a hater, just very disappointed In Land Rover.
I have a problem/question to ask. Driven home in my 00 BMW e38, pulled in my drive way tried to put my car in park and the gear selector would not move into park. It would go in all the other gears but not park. I played with it for about 15-20 minutes and it finally went into park. I get up to go to work and now the gear selector will not go into Drive. Is this the transmission cable that is the culpri?
Curtis Houze there is a adjustment on the cable under the car on he driver side, there is a nut you can loosen, loosen it and put the car in park, pull the cable tight with your hand and retighten it, if that don't fix it the shifter might be broken
Just bought a 2003 540i. The engine starts and feels like very little compression. Then I tried to start again and it started running better. Almost like the timing skipped. I know for a fact these guides are bad. Is this normal? Or is the engine trashed?
Nathan, I have 02 540i keep making huge sucking noise from air intake manifold. I have replaced the timing guide, OSV, vent tube intake manifold gasket no smoke anymore. also the cvv the back cover I have tried 3 new one all aftermarket. still huge sucking noise when reach operating temperature. please give me some advise.
I DIY the water pump on my 00 e39 540i m sport twice in a 3 yrs span. I also have the rattle on cold start up. Had the car sitting in the garage for about a week, and man when i fired that thing up, sounded like the rattle was hooked up to an amplifier lol i shut that shit off quicker that you blink. After shutting it off i restarted it in about 10 sec and it was a smooth start up. Can that be the guide rails going bad as you said or failed/failing check valve? Been having that cold start rattle off and on for more than a year now sorry to say.
More likely lifters, if the sound only occured once after a long rest. The oil drains out of the lifters over time and results in a racket when initially started that remains for 5-10 mins. After that each start is silent because the lifters are again filled with oil. On the other hand, the rattle associated with the timing chain "chatter" occurs every single time that the engine is started, to the best of my knowledge (my disclaimer).
Hi Nathan. I'm new to your site, but have learned a lot from your video's. Wondering, can a timing chain issue cause the loss of compression on one entire bank (4 cylinders)? Good compression on the passenger side NO compression on the drivers side on a 2003 540i Six Speed. Any thoughts?
You said the cam shaft loosened, I have the same problem on 740 il what was the problem and your fix? I have done 10 chains and guides on 4.4 before but first time this problem. Also after this chain was replaced I get code after about three starts timing advanced on bank 2. I reset the chains and still came back. Any advise? Thank you great videos and advise Danny
Nathan's DIY Garage Good afternoon Tried to order a kit but they were out of stock. I took cover off again, brought up cams to align again with timing lock blocks, loosened bank 2 nut, reset vano to have continuity and moved sensor wheel clockwise 1/8 inch and retightened with red lock tight. Assembled back together and let set up. I have started and drove the car without any lights so far, starts and runs as it should. But I'll try to order the set again Thank you for your time and info Danny
Just did this job after 190k miles on my 01 740i sport as preventative maintenance. I paid 3100 from an indy shop which does this job all the time. Parts costs were around 1100 which included valley pan, all internal gaskets, valve cover gaskets.
Hi, congrats for your channel, is a lot helpful to me, and I have a question about my car, , I have a code in my BMW X5 4.4 2002, the code is P0011, I'm trying to find for long time how fix it, but like you said in your video, the 80% of the workshops all time they said something different or they don't know exactly what to do,... And is really expensive.. I love this car, good memories, and I feel bad don't find any answer, My car is sitting now for almost 2 years, I hope you can give me a opinion about my problem, is just one code still runs and no noises on the engine,, 240xxx miles... appreciate any info you can share, thanks
My car has 160 miles guides are still good :) what killing the guides is two thinks high temp. and no oil change, 9 years ago I did change the different thermostat 80c oem is 105c maybe thats why they are good so far.
Changing the tensioner too. Over time they get blocked with debris and stop their tensioning function. That leads to chain thrash which, in turn, cracks the plastic on the guides. Game over.
When my dad passed away he left an 01-03 (don't know exactly) 540i and my sister took it because she needed a car, I didn't. I fear that it won't last much longer because she can't do her own repairs and I doubt she could drop a few thousand for a shop to handle it, and unfortunately we live on opposite parts of the country.
Yes. I'm actually worried because I hear a "clack" as I rev more but oddly it only gets louder under load as in when I am in drive vs in park just revving. I think it might be my catalytic converters again though
not to mention there is a grub screw that will not come with the new u rail guide. Make sure you transfer it from the old one to the new one. It's part number 11151736960 if you need to order
my R-Rover with 4.4 m62 v8 makes a rattle on start up but there is no noise afterwards and in oil changes i've found no plastic bits ..am i ok ?....my car is 2003 with 95,000 miles
@@jaysuseffinkrist yes. It's been done quite successfully. The currently popular M60b44 builds (using M60 heads on M62 blocks) use just that approach, but it is quite involved. Well worth it in my opinion!
It's a US thing, the oil used in the USA is not the same as here in Europe, here I know 8 cars that went (total) and that includes the German cars to that drive them much harder then anywhere. in the US I read daily that the next car has TCG failure...... just some food for thought
Homerraas Exactly my thought. I see so many 540is on Blocket (Swedish site for selling mainly cars) with around 190k miles on them, and yea sure, they have a lot of issues, but 0 noises from the timing chain guide. I’ve seen one up for sale that had gone 220k miles, and that 540 had a broken timing chain guide. I read somewhere when BMW took their V8 cars to the US, they had huge problems with total engine failures. And that it was indeed about the oil. It was a long time ago i read it though, and i’m not sure what the issue was. But i know it was because of the different oil. People, BMW engines doesn’t take any oil, doesn’t matter if the viscosity is correct. You HAVE to buy from a good brand and their good oil. I always buy Castrol Edge for my BMW.
front of my m62tu with 277,000 miles sounds like a diesel all the time.........would that be timing chains and guides?....oh by the way car runs like a bat out of hell.
LOL! At 70k miles and 80% of them fail within 3 months when replacing the engines. Dude, come on. Numbers are not your thing. I have owned a 540 for 14 year, active in the forums and know many BMW shop owners (friends). Stop telling such non-sense. And 90% of shops not willing to tackle the job? Sure if you bring it to a Honda Shop. I don't know one BMW indie mechanic that wouldn't do this job. Is it worth it for some to spend parts and labor to have it fixed by a shop is another question. I don't know where you live (maybe in the Midwest), but on the East Coast and West Coast it isn't hard to find a BMW indie that will do this job. You tell people to use aftermarket timing guides (really) and then quote valve cover gaskets (price) that is aftermarket (that price isn't OE). You are using Victor Reinz or other gaskets and don't have much experience with the quality over time. Please just stop! Leave it to the professionals.
!!!!!! some people are so biased and READ false information on the interwebs its crazy!!! im going on 7 years with my 01 540. 132k my guides went. parts are on the way and rebuilding vanos units.
This is wrong. The failures happen on the M62TU motors found ONLY on 09/1998-2001 vehicles. The chain guides fail because the chain stretches, and the piston tensioner doesn't tension the chain quick enough on startup. The chain slaps slightly, hence the startup noise, and this heavy metal chain smacks into the guides causing them to crack and eventually break.
But, wouldn't the same chain stretch occur on the non-vanos (NV) engines as well? My impression is that the tensioner stops doing its job and results in the chain thrashing which pulverizes the plastic on the guides. I'm not sure why it seems to occur more commonly on the TU. Perhaps the need for the chain to drive more mass does result in chain stretch that doesn't occur on the NV? You make an interesting point.
They can't even make a cupholder i have a 740i and it the worst piece of junk ever made vw can't top this mine blew of course garbage i hate to look at it and no will take it free
These are the worst made cars in the world take it from me a 40 year master tech german enginering the have no interest in motors lasting over 50k they cater to rich snobs if you think you will be lucky and get a good one trust me there all crap after 50k
As much of a pain as these cars can be, it goes to show you how lacking the competition is in the 'curb appeal' department. I like our X5. If it were a Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, or what ever I just be 'meh, what ever'.
Awesome Nathan. Thanks.
I bought my 2001 knowing it had this issue. I had a reputable shop here near me do the repair for $2200, which is a lot of money for me. I'm posting that so others can get a feel for the price. I had one other shop say $2500.
One thing you have mentioned before, and was confirmed when we got into my car was the oil filter. Since they are so accessible, it makes a ton of sense to pull it for inspection if you suspect your guides are failing. Mine was saturated with aluminum pieces and flakes. A sure sign of internal damage.
You can also sight down the oil fill hole with a flashlight and get a look at the chain and the guides. And of course, drop the oil pan and sift out the plastic.
It's such a shame that Hans and Franz in Germany left as all holding the bag from shitty plastic pieces on these otherwise amazing machines....window regulators, sun roofs, cup holders...all garbage.
I would have done this job myself, but at the time I just saved up the money from working overtime at work and left it to the pros. I did that BEFORE seeing your very good video on how to do the repair. With the tool set you mentioned and some common sense and not being in a rush, the job is doable.
The thing is, I still have a cold start rattle, and I still have what really must be a bad lifter. The rhythm of the second noise tells me its cam related...too slow to be a piston, etc. I've seen your vid on inspecting the lifters, and one where you had just a crazy amount of gunked up lifters in one engine!
I want/need to get in and pull the cams and inspect the lifters. Can those be replaced with new ones? What about wear on the cams themselves...I mean aren't they sort of matched to the lifter after a lot of miles? (I'm at 138k).
The other thing I've come across on the forums is the check valve that is behind the vanos module. If I'm not mistaken it can fail and prevent oil from staying in the upper part of the engine and can result in a brief rattle at start up until the oil gets distributed into the rest of the engine. It looks like an easy fix, can you discuss it?
The other thing I didn't do, nor did my mechanic, is to address the oil pump as you mentioned (I will call and confirm this, but I'm not aware that he did, though the pan was dropped). Are you suggesting we pull the pan and use some Brakekleen or something to get residual gunk, aluminum and plastic out of it? (that's gotta be the dumbest question I've ever asked) So pull the pan, clean the screen and pump (replace the screen?), then seal a new gasket and reinstall the pan? Sounds pretty straight forward.
Sorry for the long post. I know there are a lot of enthusiasts out there who just need the confidence (plus the time, tools and a bit of $$) to do these jobs, and you generously provide the teaching that gives that confidence! Thank you brother!!!!
Yes, you must clean debris from pick-up tube and you may have to clean lifters as timing chain failure imminent from tiny bits of aluminum and plastic from guide failures getting into lifters preventing operation. Make sure your lifters squeeze together freely- Super clean and freshly oil All. Don’t use sludging engine oils like QuakerState.
Im waiting for answers to this lol
Shop was asking $3600. I did it my self for $500 in parts including new water pump. Bmw should go bankrupt for designing engine parts with plastic.
what is the better alternative? All brands use plastic guides for the chains. The fault is not because of plastic all cars with chains has that. I think the fault is because there is too much force on the U part. The older bmw V8 had a sprocket wheel instead and that one goes on forever.
@@caliwator, thank you. Facts.
Appreciated your video, I am going to swap my e39 540i in a few weeks. I am glad you have so much videos on the M62.
I have a '97 540iA...non vanos...206,000 miles. Still has factory guides. Although I have changed tensioner. No noise on start up, and runs quiet. However, my 2001 740iL has 138,000 miles...it is the vanos 4.4...and I do hear occasional rattle on cold start, but gets quiet right away. Prob have the guides done by Nathan someday...I'm in Indiana so I'd need to take the car to Missouri but I'm up for road trip. Be cool to meet Nathan and see his shop and BMW graveyard! Lol. I've watched all Nathan's DIY videos...very informative I appreciate it.
great info Nathan,lookin at a 530 or 540 to buy, love the motor sounds
I appreciate your videos; quite helpful. Can you offer advice on the timing chain wear on the M62/tu and its expected lifespan?
This is also relevant for the 2003-2005 Range Rover which used the 4.4 M62TU BMW engine. :) I am going to be tackling this job on my project Range Rover this summer, and will probably do my 540i during the winter.
Thanks Nathan!
2003 540 did my guides had code for advanced timing got germen auto solutions 265.00 $ tools 4.4 is happy thanks nathan
Hi nathan i reused my old chain. But im doing the job again now .i dont get y you have to time the vanos once you lock the cams y do u have to time the vanos
very helpfull great advice
Good info. Thank you.
Good shit Nathan
Good topic. I need help getting my m64tu timing chain guides done. Car in pieces, stuck at Jesus bolt removal
Great advice.
Nathan, are those Lexani tires you used a while back actually any good? I'm wondering since I'm shopping tires. Thanks for these awesome videos!
I'm wondering can I only replace the guides? Remove one put the other one in type a thing without removing the chain?
Hey Nathan I just changed my alternator and my power steering pump on my E38 and I have a whining noise and can't tell which one is it any possible suggestions thanks
So that would as well apply to an e60 550i with 4.8l m62?
Good information thanks
great video Nathan. When can I make an appointment to have you fix my 2001 740il? 😉
Can you show us the sounds the failing chain guides make? I recently bought a 2000 540i Sports Wagon, 125,000 miles, and have noticed a knocking sound but not sure about the sound you described upon cold start.
Garbage car
Which guide set do you recommend?
Thanks, I waiting for the growling noise, so far she's not making it yet. I came up with just under $500 in parts, plus oil pan gasket kit. and Tax.
Nathan, when re-installing the timing chain guide covers, do you use ultra grey on both sides of the gasket?
Shadab Ansari yes if you do not it will leak
hi Nathan my timing chain guides are definitely breaking apart I have the whole motor apart I have a 1997 540 non Vanos I'm trying to figure out what parts I should change should I just change these three guides you're talking about should I also change all the chains? And what about the two top guides the guide the overhead cams? thanks for your help my car is got 240k on it compression still good so I decide to do the job
Original timing guides at 240k? If this is true, then I rest assured that it's actually the cats on my car and not the guides. Because I also have non vanos but my weird clack sound came back similar to when my cars first broke. If they're broken again, I'm doing straight pipe this time because no lol
what about a 94 540i are they different and how, PS I suscribed. like your site
Are there any after market options made from a better material like Kevlar or a PTFE ?
Or better securing tabs, even.
good info
70K - 120K miles. On the forums, it's usually quoted as around 150K miles before they go. One delaying tactic is to put on a lower-temp Thermostat and change your engine mounts to reduce vibration and heat impact on the plastic parts.
1. Drop the oil pan and look for pieces.
2. When the plastic has gone - you hear it. The timing chain is "whipping" around and making metal noise against the aluminum.
g mak I'm for trying anything to prolong guide life but none of those will buy anymore time. The higher mile cars were prob highway driven, cold starts is usually what will break them
The singing rattle on cold starts has gone since I replaced the timing chain tensioner on my car. Do you think a new stronger timing chain tensioner can buy some lifetime for the timing chain/guides ?
Yes. Over time, it appears that the timing chain tensioner - especially the original version - does lose some efficacy in keeping the tension on the chain. When I changed mine out, one could clearly see that the newer one extended more than the older one. As well - and I don't know if this was just in my case, or if it would apply to others - there was no spring in the old one. It depended purely on oil to act as a hydraulic force inside and push against the chain.
If there is less side to side movement of the chain, then the main wear would be from rubbing and not from slapping. In my mind, heat and vibration are the primary enemy of plastic, and anything rubbing on that plastic will increase the wear and eventually damage. Slapping is the worst of all and can lead to cracks and breakage much sooner than vibration + heat + rubbing, IMHO.
g mak have you done the guides? Thinking on buying an e39 with the m62tüb35 and my theory checks yours. As soon as I hear some kind of noise (slapping and others) I would change the tensioner to a new one since the original is now too old and adjusting it wouldn't work much longer. And also using proper oils could do it?
Im going to see the car. Should i ask someone to start the car while i am at the front with the hood open and try to hear any noises?
I've only replaced the tensioner and put in an 88C thermostat.
How many miles on the car? It's very obvious if the plastic is gone on the guides. Listen to a few videos on youtube and you'll hear various different sound - but all "un-natural". You get the slapping sound - especially when rev'ing. You can also get a whine if the chain is still fairly tight but MOST of the plastic is gone (chain on aluminum - nice!).
Proper oils will only go so far - but I wouldn't put anything apart from a very good synthetic in my cars.
As far as the guides go, plastic continues to vulcanize under heat and becomes brittle. The hotter the engine, the more likely this is to happen. Vibration just adds to the likelihood that something will flake off.
Hey how much average cost to replace timing chain replacing
@NathansDIYGarage I just bought a 2001 740iL. I love these cars but I have some issues. I don't think the guides are bad but I will have to check the lower oil pan. But can I just replace the chain tensioner? I didn't see one on your amazon page. Is aftermarket ok or do I need to go oem. Thanks
Changing the tension is a preventive and recommended. It is easy and yes the tension spring gets worse over time. Drop the pan and look for pieces. Go OE for these parts.
Thanks for the tips guys. One suggestion, 2 perhaps is Most people put silicone on gaskets, torque them down and leave it, applying far too much silicone and you definitely Don’t want Any of that in the oil as it will clog galleys and tear up bearings like coolant will. Recommended procedure is to place a small bead, Finger tighten, allow to cure, Then torque it down!
Of course if you don’t super-clean mating surfaces of any oil residue success rates will diminish. Silicone will break down with gasoline; not recommended for timing and sump applications as gas gets in oil eventually, perhaps this is not applicable to improved silicone products?? In the 1970s & 80’s We use to use the black shellac Type stuff that was very tacky/sticky and although it was very difficult to remove, held like crazy. I still use a lot of silicone but would prefer to use the old, hard to find stuff.
Thanks for the vid., you guys obviously know your stuff and yes if you shop around you can find deals on parts & kits; Read the reviews and know exactly you have the right kit!!!
Thumbs of for Knowledge that we share to help the next guy with these nightmare issues of over-engineered German texhnology; Not My term! Why did Land Rover Use an old BMW Engine and not offer customers reliability like everything that is designed to fail?! They obviously didn’t consider its customers of past or future. I’m not a hater, just very disappointed In Land Rover.
Re. Land Rover. Because BMW owned Land Rover before it was sold off.
I have a problem/question to ask. Driven home in my 00 BMW e38, pulled in my drive way tried to put my car in park and the gear selector would not move into park. It would go in all the other gears but not park. I played with it for about 15-20 minutes and it finally went into park. I get up to go to work and now the gear selector will not go into Drive. Is this the transmission cable that is the culpri?
Curtis Houze there is a adjustment on the cable under the car on he driver side, there is a nut you can loosen, loosen it and put the car in park, pull the cable tight with your hand and retighten it, if that don't fix it the shifter might be broken
Just bought a 2003 540i. The engine starts and feels like very little compression. Then I tried to start again and it started running better. Almost like the timing skipped. I know for a fact these guides are bad. Is this normal? Or is the engine trashed?
Nathan, I have 02 540i keep making huge sucking noise from air intake manifold.
I have replaced the timing guide, OSV, vent tube intake manifold gasket no smoke anymore. also the cvv the back cover I have tried 3 new one all aftermarket. still huge sucking noise when reach operating temperature. please give me some advise.
spray around your intake with starting fluid (short burts) with it running. when the idle spikes you will be able to pin point it.
I’m pretty sure it’s the fan. Mine does it too. It sucks for a bit then stops. It’s your Aux fan going on and off.
I DIY the water pump on my 00 e39 540i m sport twice in a 3 yrs span. I also have the rattle on cold start up. Had the car sitting in the garage for about a week, and man when i fired that thing up, sounded like the rattle was hooked up to an amplifier lol i shut that shit off quicker that you blink. After shutting it off i restarted it in about 10 sec and it was a smooth start up. Can that be the guide rails going bad as you said or failed/failing check valve? Been having that cold start rattle off and on for more than a year now sorry to say.
More likely lifters, if the sound only occured once after a long rest. The oil drains out of the lifters over time and results in a racket when initially started that remains for 5-10 mins. After that each start is silent because the lifters are again filled with oil. On the other hand, the rattle associated with the timing chain "chatter" occurs every single time that the engine is started, to the best of my knowledge (my disclaimer).
Hi Nathan. I'm new to your site, but have learned a lot from your video's. Wondering, can a timing chain issue cause the loss of compression on one entire bank (4 cylinders)? Good compression on the passenger side NO compression on the drivers side on a 2003 540i Six Speed. Any thoughts?
Yes or the nut on the cam spun loose , remove the cam sensor and stick you finger in the hole to see if its loose
You said the cam shaft loosened, I have the same problem on 740 il what was the problem and your fix?
I have done 10 chains and guides on 4.4 before but first time this problem. Also after this chain was replaced I get code after about three starts timing advanced on bank 2. I reset the chains and still came back. Any advise?
Thank you great videos and advise
Danny
You have to use the German auto solutions timing kit and run the intake cam bolt to 92ft lbs with red locktite
Nathan's DIY Garage
Good afternoon
Tried to order a kit but they were out of stock.
I took cover off again, brought up cams to align again with timing lock blocks, loosened bank 2 nut, reset vano to have continuity and moved sensor wheel clockwise 1/8 inch and retightened with red lock tight.
Assembled back together and let set up.
I have started and drove the car without any lights so far, starts and runs as it should.
But I'll try to order the set again
Thank you for your time and info
Danny
Just did this job after 190k miles on my 01 740i sport as preventative maintenance. I paid 3100 from an indy shop which does this job all the time. Parts costs were around 1100 which included valley pan, all internal gaskets, valve cover gaskets.
Ashley Mcwatters
How is it going now after 4 months ?
did u notice any thing ??
you idiot paid 3grand just for this, smh
Is that $3100 labor plus $1100 parts?
@@francispowell1811 all in was 3100, but that was 5 years ago…
Once you start to get the timing chain noise, how many miles you shouldn’t do before changing it? Or is it immediately?
Immediately, the will make the job of cleaning the fragments out of the engine alot easier
Hi, congrats for your channel, is a lot helpful to me, and I have a question about my car, , I have a code in my BMW X5 4.4 2002, the code is P0011, I'm trying to find for long time how fix it, but like you said in your video, the 80% of the workshops all time they said something different or they don't know exactly what to do,... And is really expensive.. I love this car, good memories, and I feel bad don't find any answer, My car is sitting now for almost 2 years, I hope you can give me a opinion about my problem, is just one code still runs and no noises on the engine,, 240xxx miles... appreciate any info you can share, thanks
My car has 160 miles guides are still good :) what killing the guides is two thinks high temp. and no oil change, 9 years ago I did change the different thermostat 80c oem is 105c maybe thats why they are good so far.
Changing the tensioner too. Over time they get blocked with debris and stop their tensioning function. That leads to chain thrash which, in turn, cracks the plastic on the guides. Game over.
When my dad passed away he left an 01-03 (don't know exactly) 540i and my sister took it because she needed a car, I didn't. I fear that it won't last much longer because she can't do her own repairs and I doubt she could drop a few thousand for a shop to handle it, and unfortunately we live on opposite parts of the country.
do you think you may get away by just replace the guides and tensioners?
I did exactly that. The chain was fine. Marked timing on the chain, for simplicity, and 40k later I'm golden and the engine is silent. No issues.
@@francispowell1811 good to know that
Aren’t the guides more likely to break on the vanos v8 99-03?
Yes. I'm actually worried because I hear a "clack" as I rev more but oddly it only gets louder under load as in when I am in drive vs in park just revving. I think it might be my catalytic converters again though
@@electric6877 louder under load? Like crankshaft related noise tends to.
how long does this takes you, not rushing and taking to your time?
22-25 hours
not to mention there is a grub screw that will not come with the new u rail guide. Make sure you transfer it from the old one to the new one. It's part number 11151736960 if you need to order
turn up the stereo
BMW's Marketing Team really did a number on the owners... ;)
my R-Rover with 4.4 m62 v8 makes a rattle on start up but there is no noise afterwards and in oil changes i've found no plastic bits ..am i ok ?....my car is 2003 with 95,000 miles
Dino Dean You should be fine.
You better change them.
@@sandiegotruck3323 or sell the Range
Hi Nathan will this fail on the e34 ?
No the e34 does not have the u-shaped guide the m60 has a gear in its place
Can you swap the guide with the M60 gear?
@@jaysuseffinkrist yes. It's been done quite successfully.
The currently popular M60b44 builds (using M60 heads on M62 blocks) use just that approach, but it is quite involved. Well worth it in my opinion!
It's a US thing, the oil used in the USA is not the same as here in Europe, here I know 8 cars that went (total) and that includes the German cars to that drive them much harder then anywhere. in the US I read daily that the next car has TCG failure...... just some food for thought
Homerraas
Exactly my thought. I see so many 540is on Blocket (Swedish site for selling mainly cars) with around 190k miles on them, and yea sure, they have a lot of issues, but 0 noises from the timing chain guide. I’ve seen one up for sale that had gone 220k miles, and that 540 had a broken timing chain guide.
I read somewhere when BMW took their V8 cars to the US, they had huge problems with total engine failures. And that it was indeed about the oil. It was a long time ago i read it though, and i’m not sure what the issue was. But i know it was because of the different oil.
People, BMW engines doesn’t take any oil, doesn’t matter if the viscosity is correct. You HAVE to buy from a good brand and their good oil. I always buy Castrol Edge for my BMW.
Nathan, you never said how much you would do the job for...
How much do you charge for TCG job?
The parts are around $200, but I'm not taking anymore jobs for a little bit until I get some of these cars done and out of here
how are parts only 200? I've priced it out and it's around 800-1200 depending on brand?
J D'Auria me too, I found the complete kits for those prices including chain
150 degree turn entirely on plastic. Lordy.
Well there goes mine
My 1997 BMW 540i got to 210000 miles before it blew
The timing guides on the non-vanos definitely outperform the the TU vanos motors. Not sure why really.
Just glue the backs of the plastics to the aluminium damn it.
I'm surprised someone didn't reverse engineer an upgrade. It would have saved a lot of these fantastic cars.
Anyone in new England willing to do this job
front of my m62tu with 277,000 miles sounds like a diesel all the time.........would that be timing chains and guides?....oh by the way car runs like a bat out of hell.
Most definitely. You're on borrowed time, if complete destruction hasn't hit already since you posted.
@@tempest411 its been parked since most of last summer
That's good...Have you started the job of repairing it yet?
@@tempest411 nope slowly getting parts plus the below zero temps up here in montana arent too far away....maybe next summer.
LOL! At 70k miles and 80% of them fail within 3 months when replacing the engines. Dude, come on. Numbers are not your thing. I have owned a 540 for 14 year, active in the forums and know many BMW shop owners (friends). Stop telling such non-sense. And 90% of shops not willing to tackle the job? Sure if you bring it to a Honda Shop. I don't know one BMW indie mechanic that wouldn't do this job. Is it worth it for some to spend parts and labor to have it fixed by a shop is another question. I don't know where you live (maybe in the Midwest), but on the East Coast and West Coast it isn't hard to find a BMW indie that will do this job. You tell people to use aftermarket timing guides (really) and then quote valve cover gaskets (price) that is aftermarket (that price isn't OE). You are using Victor Reinz or other gaskets and don't have much experience with the quality over time. Please just stop! Leave it to the professionals.
!!!!!! some people are so biased and READ false information on the interwebs its crazy!!! im going on 7 years with my 01 540. 132k my guides went. parts are on the way and rebuilding vanos units.
This is wrong. The failures happen on the M62TU motors found ONLY on 09/1998-2001 vehicles. The chain guides fail because the chain stretches, and the piston tensioner doesn't tension the chain quick enough on startup. The chain slaps slightly, hence the startup noise, and this heavy metal chain smacks into the guides causing them to crack and eventually break.
this is 100
But, wouldn't the same chain stretch occur on the non-vanos (NV) engines as well? My impression is that the tensioner stops doing its job and results in the chain thrashing which pulverizes the plastic on the guides.
I'm not sure why it seems to occur more commonly on the TU. Perhaps the need for the chain to drive more mass does result in chain stretch that doesn't occur on the NV?
You make an interesting point.
The parts are inexpensive what is expensive is the labor. I paid about 2500 dollars.
They can't even make a cupholder i have a 740i and it the worst piece of junk ever made vw can't top this mine blew of course garbage i hate to look at it and no will take it free
Very Dramatic!" IF U HAD TO; IT'S CALLED, AN ENGINE REBUILD !"
ALL THOSE PARTS ARE OUT OF STOCK 🤦♂️
3000 dollers
These are the worst made cars in the world take it from me a 40 year master tech german enginering the have no interest in motors lasting over 50k they cater to rich snobs if you think you will be lucky and get a good one trust me there all crap after 50k
This is so true !!!
why would u have that view? german technology should last 50 years !! dont understand
As much of a pain as these cars can be, it goes to show you how lacking the competition is in the 'curb appeal' department. I like our X5. If it were a Toyota, Nissan, Chevy, or what ever I just be 'meh, what ever'.
LOL
BMW planned obsolescence. Why in hell otherwise would you design such a a critical part soo poorly?
I could understand if the Chinese made this car. What a piece of junk! Engineering fail. Come on BMW!!!
Once you start to get the timing chain noise, how many miles you shouldn’t do before changing it? Or is it immediately?
the sooner you do it, the safer you are