Hi friends! A quick reminder not to post spoilers for "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes". The book isn't out in many countries yet, and won't be for another few weeks, so it's incredibly inconsiderate. Also, many of you have been asking when I'll make videos about it. I won't be making videos about it until the movie adaptation is released, as this firstly gives everyone time to buy and read the book, and secondly will allow us to use the secondary canon that is a movie to base ideas off of. Thank you and happy bubbles!
Excelent video. I believe Chaf and Seeder happily helped Katniss after seeing the way she took care of Rue in the previous games. They must also have been grateful for Peeta’s promise to help take care of Rue and Thresh’s families financially
I think it's noteworthy that Cashmere, Gloss, and Enobaria all seemed eager to betray the Capitol despite the fact that they weren't working with the rebels. Cashmere and Gloss blatantly try to undermine Snow's authority and get the Games cancelled during their interview. And Enobaria later goes right along with Coin's plan to slaughter Capitol children for revenge. I don't have a hard time at all believing that these three were reaped on purpose. They show off a lot of anti-Capitol sentiment even in the very few scenes we see of them.
In the book, Enobaria was released (in the book) upon being rescued from the arena by the Capitol and allowed to go back to District 2. It was implied that she wasn't rebellious, wasn't in on the plan and played along with the Capitol well enough so Snow didn't see her as a threat. When the districts became united, she wasn't mentioned to take part in the attack on the Capitol. She was probably playing it safe, keeping a low profile until the winner could be determined. She already had immunity, guaranteed by Katniss (again in the book), so why stick her neck out? When the rebels and Coin won and she gathered them to take a vote on a Hunger Games using Capital's children, others asked why she was there quite angrily and she answered she had immunity. She also voted for the Hunger Games all the while Katniss was pondering this. That the need for blood and vengeance couldn't be sated and she thought that wouldn't be solved by one Hunger Games with Capitol's kids. It would go on and they would be no better than those who preceded them. And they now have their Republic. Or representative democracy. As long as they can keep it.
Actually Alias I think that you are on to something there. That is really smart. So I think that this was an excuse to get rid of all/most of the victors who might start a rebellion. Katniss made them realize this. She was the main reason, but they threw in the rest because they needed to get them gone.
emptyvoices31 As valid as your point is, enobaria, had already been through more than what other career Victor's had, she tried to get the games cancelled in a way that wouldn't harm her reputation with the Capitol officials. If she was already pardoned by the Capitol after the rescue than why should she stick her neck out if she didnt need to. She wasnt being targeted by either side, so she had alot less to worry about in comparison to the other tributes like, Finnick, Katniss, Johanna, and Peeta. She knew what would happen to Johanna and Peeta and didnt want that to happen to her if she went against them. It doesn't mean she didnt hate the Capitol though. I believe she wanted to be rebellious in a way that wouldn't result in her being killed or tortured
Well the needed a winner, didn’t they? Brutus was probably intended to be the winner. If they picked who they wanted to die and lose, they had to pick one who they wanted to live, or it was certain that one person they wanted dead would leave.
Rebekah L. Morrisey well Brutus volunteered so that’s what I mean by it wasn’t planned (even tho Peeta and Mags also volunteered they must have had an idea that would happen if they reaped Haymich and Annie) And about what you said about them needing a victor, that’s not necessarily true. One of the things Katniss thinks at the very end of the games after she blows up the arena is she questions if the capitol ever even intended to have a victor or those games so I don’t think they really did need a victor Page 458, chapter 27: “will they let anyone survive? Will there be a victor of the seventy-fifth hunger games? Maybe not. After all, what is this Quarter Quell but... what was it President Snow read from the card? ‘... ad a reminder to the rebels that not even the strongest among them can overcome the power of the Capitol...’ Not even the strongest of the strong will triumph. Perhaps they never intended to have a victor in these Games” I think they planned to have no survivors for these games so as many victors could be eliminated as possible. The last one standing would be the “victor” but they wouldn’t survive. Knowing Snow and how he plans “accidents” for people, perhaps he was hoping no one would survive these games he would cover it up saying “everyone dying wasn’t supposed to happen. The arena was too powerful”
@@patfuss8998, I think you're right. Part of reminding them that no one was stronger than the capital was proving that the gamemakers could and would kill each and every one of them with the arena. They just didn't factor in that Plutarch wasn't willing to be a tool.
I believe that Plutarch switched the cards so that Katniss had to go back into the arena so she could be removed for the rebellion. It was all part of a master plan that a few of the tributes were a part of. I don’t think Johanna was a threat. Snow killed everybody she loved because she refused to be a sex slave to the capitol. And the only reason Finnick did it cause he couldn’t stand to lose mags and Annie. I think Katniss also speculated that that’s why Haymitch had no family cause he refused too so Snow killed his loved ones.
If the Quell had ended as expected with one winner, then there would have been 35 victors left...they could have just rotated them every year to act as mentors, regardless of district, until enough victors had been built up again
I think the more likely answer would be that they either don’t have a mentor OR a capital citizen would be selected as their mentor! Since we know some of the first games didn’t have mentors but in the 10th games (per the new book about to come out) capital citizens like Snow were mentors!:)
I think it was so sad that Cashmere and Gloss had to be in the arena together. Imagine they made it to the final two, and one of them having to kill their sibling, their only family...if they were reaped intentionally, that’s so sad and cruel
@@saxray1341 yes, but that rule was revoked, katniss and peeta were only both allowed to win because the gamemakers thought two victors was better than no victors
If they were in the final 3, Snow could have ordered the death of one of the siblings (make it look like an accident) and then sat back and waited for the final fight.
I think it's also possible that the morphlings were sent in by President Snow because they were setting a bad example and not living the lavish life the capital expects them to have, due to their crippling addiction.
This may be true especially with what we know in BSS. Snow resented Highbottom for his addiction and pain when he was young... maybe he still had some anger left at those who take the “easy” way out
OR - they were the only living tributes from their district- why does everyone forget - maybe 50 years of tributes were alive period 25 probably from 1 & 2 - 25 remaining - 10 districts ... 20 victors - Districts 12 & 4 have a spare so 22 victors So a remaining 3 victors split over 8 districts not a lot of wiggle room.
There’s definitely a great shot that it was all planned. Originally I thought this plan was just to eliminate Katniss, but this makes a whole lot more sense.
In the books that theory is also suggested. They mention that is very common see a Victor s son or daughter being ripped. So you can assume that if the Capitol want someone in the arena they have it. And Joanna was the only female Victor from her district so yes she was very much forced to go like Katniss
Perhaps one thing you didn’t take into account was that some of the tributes were the only person in their respective group. For instance, Johanna Mason and Katniss were the only living female victors from their districts, so there was no orchestration per se. The pools of victors of each sex in the non-Career districts was probably pretty small. Still, orchestration could definitely happened in the other cases.
Oh there are definitely cases where there wasn’t anything happening behind the scenes. Though we can’t say wether Johanna was alone purposefully for example. Always interesting to look at all the angles!
Aaron C Well there was orchestration for Katniss, because the Quell was clearly rigged to take her out after she sparked the rebellion and knowing that she would automatically be reaped being the only female victor
@@SF-wz5tz it was more of a movie thing. Supposedly there was a monument to the victors or something that said so. I've only read about it online and have yet to notice it in the movie. Might be something you need to pause and see. It's beeb awhile since I've seen that, so I could be completely wrong. However, given how rebellious D8 is, I doubt an older female would have let her go in...unless Cecelia made it a point to be the one to go if called. I'm sure most districts, like D12, had talked beforehand about what was going to happen at the Reaping. One of the things that has bothered me the most about Mockingjay is Katniss made sure to find out if Bonnie and Twill made it, but never asked anyone (especially while in D8) what happened to Cecelia's husband and kids. Left us hanging.
After watching Catching Fire many times, I always felt Brutus had some sort of "in" when it came to helping Katniss, though he kept it very subtle. The thing I picked up on is, at the start of the 75th games, after Katniss surfaces on the walkway, Brutus does too, and chases her. He then stops and isn't seen again. He could play that off as "oh well she got to her bow first and that's dangerous to me" but a strong man like him could easily chase her down on that walkway. It's a slight and subtle hint to me that he didn't wanna kill Katniss and was in on it. Or if not in on it, had enough anger at the Capitol to not want to help them.
Uuh I'd say it's pretty obvious that Brutus wasn't on Katniss side. When he tries to run to the weapon stash, he only has his belt as defence and no weapon, whereas Katniss already has her bow. Engaging in a fight at that point would result in a certain death for him. Besides, if he were on their side, why would he attack them later and at the end of the games?
I think that was just poorly edited. There was absolutely no reason for him to stop chasing Katniss down as he easily could have knocked her into the water to try to get to the Cornucopia before her.
they were, there was a deleted scene where plutarch replaces the old 3rd quarter quell card with the new one... and it hints at it in the books it’s never OFFICIALLY said but it definitely was rewritten
Meghan Rose I reread catching fire though and in the end Plutarch told Katniss he didn’t intend for her to be a tribute again but as a mentor so maybe the movie wanted to make it seem it was part of the grand scheme when it wasn’t?
MsBookworm07 in the book, its sorta implied that snow rewrote it, but in the movie it shows plutarch doing it. in the book plutarch didn’t want her going back in but snow wanted her dead so it makes sense that he’s the one who changed it, idk why they sorta changed that way in the movie
Cashmere was used just as Finnick was. Sending siblings or kids of former winners puts pressures on them. And Gloss was Cashmeres older brother so she was chosen to punish/ intimidate him but also to give a show to the capitol so snow could sell them as the golden siblings
Its ironic really, instead of eliminating Snows problem of rebellious and admired Victor's, he only ended up with a bigger one. Everybody put in the games by Snow, Finnick and Johanna especially, only helped Plutarchs plan.
Love ya videos I just have a few notes 1.Johanna was always going into the arena she’s the only district 7 female tribute that’s alive. 2. In my opinion for Cashmere and Gloss I believe Gloss was the problematic one he won the 63rd hunger games but wouldn’t do what president snow ordered so Cashmere was sent into the 64th hunger games but it backfired do to the amount of sponsors Cashmere got (having her brother as mentor) Gloss probably got his sponsors to sponsor her as well as her own sponsors and she would be a crowd favorite because of the story line she gave to the games being a sibling of the previous years victor and then after that was when president snow threaten her using Haymitch as the example then when the 75th games came around president snow finally found a way to make Gloss pay for what he did so long ago (you and your sister will both go into the games and one or both will die in the thing that you were trained to love)
Thank you. I also though that 1.Annie was reaped along side finnick so katniss and Peeta won’t be the only “start cross lovers” in the games therefor their pull of the crowd will be weaker specially with finnick already established popularity. 2. Well Haymitch said 1/2 the the tributes were in on the plan so that’s 6 districts minus the 2 career Districts which mean 4 districts (5,8,9,10) should have been regular reaping *specially 8 that we know in the books katniss said woolf didn’t know what was happening while they were in training (edible plants and insects) and kept trying to eat poisons insects. And Cecilia has 3 kids and a husband If she knew of the rebel plan (a mother’s love can lead to their sacrifice for their children’s future) but I think she’ll want to help but from the side lines maybe a mentor or something so her kids and husband don’t have to watch her in the arena and I think she just got unlucky and got reaped.
Just Chilling but careers from district 1 most of the time volunteer so cashmere probably wanted to go after gloss into the games so that their family could have 2 consecutive victors i would guess and that would bring them a lot of honor and pride.
Just Chilling but i mean snow couldve still used cashmere to manipulate gloss, because gloss himself was in the games and knows how horrific it is being he participated himself. So i would assume he wouldn’t want his little sister to experience the same. But off course cashmere doesn’t know this and blinded by her brother’s victory would want to participate in the next upcoming games, so effectively snow didn’t have to do anything to sabotage the reaping for district 1, oh well the bare minimum he could possibly do was put only cashmere’s name in the bowl ( just for a what IF scenario) but i’m sure cashmere would volunteer herself.
Mags death made me cry. It is so interesting to know what her Games were like, and how did she manage to win? She's such a fair lady. Please look into it. Thanks!
There is actually a guy on RUclips who was made really convincing and good storylines for mostly all the games (he is around the 60 mark) I forgot his name tho lol
I think all of the reapings were tainted. Why would anyone think that the capital would leave it to chance?! For example Gale has his name in there around 50 times and Peta had minimal yet Peta gets picked along with Prim who has her name in once. I realize it's not impossible, however it's more likely that the capital would pick weaker tributes as much as possible from the outlying districts with one or two stronger to make it seem fair.
KORIE okay i see what you are getting at, but why would they choose prim??? from all the other weaker looking district 12 females that were 12 yo??? especially considering the fact she has a sister like katniss who’s independent, and one of the capitol’s favorite quotes are “may the odds be ever in your favour” ODDS play a huge part in the whole story itself for example katniss mentioned a male tribute from district 3 who’s odds were 23-1 of winning and he ended up being the victor of that year games, meaning even if you have trained since birth to be in the games...if the odds aren’t in your favour you simply wont happen.So i actually don’t think its that far-fetched for prim to been have reaped “naturally” and why wouldn’t they leave it to chance? that makes it all the more entertaining. Do you really think katniss would’ve stood out ( well apart from her tribute parade and interview outfits) if she would’ve gotten reaped instead? the reason katniss mainly stood out was bc she was one of the first volunteers from district 12.
KORIE oh and katniss also mentioned in the books that there have been many tributes over the years from district 12 that looked like they were capable of winning the games ( they were well fed and not deficient in nutritions and looked strong) but bc of haymitch always being drunk and not taking any effort to mentor them or get sponsors for them they die early in the games.
@@tsuyuasui7297 the capital interferes in the games as well ie the mutts. Snow makes his hate for the outlying districts clear. Snow may have reaped Prim based on her young age and looks as well as to punish Katniss. The only part the capital can't control is the volunteers and since no one from 12 ever had, maybe they either didn't anticipate it or wanted to force it. Snow is a control freak so I think it's nieve to trust that they didn't interfere. All the slips of paper could just as easily be blank or all have only one name of the preselected tribute. No one besides the Capital ever sees them.
The fact there is not a single time when any of the tributes try to kill Katniss, even the careers, shows that they all wanted her alive even if they weren’t aware of the plan. When Johanna cut katniss’ tracker out and she pretended to die her cannon didn’t go off so Brutus or Enobaria easily could’ve killed her. And at the cornucopia when gloss killed wiress it seemed like gloss and cashmere (who were very skilled in combat) just threw away their chances by running at the rebel alliance when if they actually wanted to win the games they would’ve been stealthy and killed Katniss or Finnick who was obviously the bigger threat.
Even at the start of the games Katniss is surrounded by all of the careers on either side so if they actually wanted her dead she would’ve been gone in the bloodbath, but as we saw gloss and enobaria hold back from running at Katniss they obviously could’ve done more to kill her if they wanted to
Tbh I never thought about it, It does make sense for them to rig the games especially the important games like the quells. But I could also see it for the regular games for example in the regular games you have the career pack and the regular tributes they would reap people based on what they wanted like for the outer districts they would choose thresh( for his size and ability to compete with the careers) only so they can keep the games interesting,I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.
It's amazing that some districts even had enough victor tributes to send in the first place. Like what would have happened in 12 if Katniss hadn't survived her games? Would Haymitch and Peeta have been sent despite both being male?
I think this may be a bit of a paradox as the only reason this version of the game excisted was because of Katniss. The capitol loves their victors and where almost just as pissed as the sectors for previous winners being reaped again. Lots of winners are beloved, like Finnick. So they would not want to see them die. Also people got to know these victors after the games. They turned into more then random faces. People experience a closer experience to what it's like to see a loved one go into the games and question the games more. It's a dumb move all around. Ergo it was either pushed by Plutarch as a plan for the rebellion (which Katniss her hunger games played a huge part in). Or it was desperation from Snow to get rid of Katniss. So withoud Katniss, I doubt the quarter quell would have reaped former victors. There would have been a different game. Under the unlikely event they would push such a dumb idea and do a games like that withoud Katniss, Peeta would be very dead and not a victor. Which means Haymitch is the only one. Which means they either send 1 person, or they just reap a second one traditionaly only except for just children it can be the anyone from the whole female population of all ages of the sector to keep it ''fair''. Most sectors have male and female victors however. So that is mostly a non ishue. And the few sectors that don't could go either the reap another one random route, or use another victor of the same gender. Whatever they value most for the balance, equal male/female or equal experience and all be victors.
I think Cecelia could have been place in the arena by Snow as well. In the books we hear that Effie is genuenly saddened to see Cecelia in the games. This means People in the Capitol liked Cecelia. Besides Katniss point out how good natured Cecelia is and that is a woman Who could spark a rebellion. People will trust Cecelia as Katniss did in the books and they will let her guide them to war. Cecelia would want the games to end because although she has already won she has children Who could be reaped. She couldn't do this on her own but in case of a rebellion Cecelia would stand next to Katniss and be another figure to follow like Katniss herself and Finnick. She is respected by both the capitol and the districts and thus holds power in her hands that not many People hold.
Technically, I don’t think Enobaria is actually allowed to have those teeth. Bc her teeth are I think weapons. And you’re not allowed to bring weapons in the area, you’re only allowed to collect weapons in the arena. Although she probably got them in bc her district is so close to the Capital
She got her teeth filed after her initial Games. Victors were never supposed to return to the arena, so there was no reason for her not to get them sharpened
@@StoryDiver She probably gotten them as winner's makeover. She did use her real teeth in the book as weapon. It could be she broken some teeth when ripping opponent apart and gotten a new set then.
since she won by ripping out her competition's throat with her teeth, I wonder if the capital people shaped her teeth against her will. if the audience knew her as the victor who bit someone's throat out, wouldn't it make sense to make her memorable to the audience by doing something like this? we do see in the books that insane, impractical body alterations are a capital thing and not a district thing, so it would make sense if the capital forced her to have her teeth filed.
It’s also important to note that when I’n the movie Finnick came to gather Katniss and some of the other tributes to be rescued, in the book enobaria was actually with him. So that goes to add if enobaria was part of the plan. Which it doesn’t necessarily say she was but maybe she could’ve changed her mind even though she wasn’t particularity fond of katniss.
well what i believe is that Enobaria was member of the plan but had to act so far from it to make the plan become effective even if that meant killing other tributes.
I don’t think that Cecelia was planned to be brought back to the arena, as she was a mother and a wife to 3 children and her husband. When Effie figures she was reaped, she even expresses sympathy and sadness. District 8 is the most rebellious district, so I believe that any victor would have been part of the rebel plan if they were reaped instead. I also like to believe that districts 5,9&10 were part of the plan to save katniss, (only the females as the males from 5&9 tried to kill peeta and katniss in the cornucopia), especially district 9 as so little is known on this district. I know that in the 75th hunger games, district 9 and 10 seem to have close relationships, as you can see all 4 tributes talking to one another in the waiting room to show their skills! Anyway, to end, Cecelia is my favourite character from the hunger games series, so I just wanted to add my belief. Much luv to u from England 🤍
Cecelia’s also one of my favorites!! I just wish we know more about her, her games and her life!!! I’ve researched and in the movie she was meant to appear in the bloodbath but it was cut, such a shame.
@@DavidHernandez-ex5br There is a great fanfiction by Oisin55 called "Fall into the river". But she is not what you would expected her to be in the fic. (there is also mention of Paylor).
Cecelia is my favorite as well. As a mom, her Reaping and death broke my heart. I always thought her going into the games and sacrificing herself for the cause was so amazingly selfless. She did that for her children and their future. It was most likely only a matter of time before they were reaped themselves.
I really love these theories! It’s clear that you put a TON of thought into these, and you’re really intelligent and observant. I hope you enjoy making these as much as we love watching them.
If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that half of the tributes who participated in the 75th Hunger Games were "in on it" for the rebel plan and securing Katniss' extraction from the arena. I believe either Plutarch or Haymitch said this. So I think with that statement, we can assume Plutarch orchestrated close to 12 tributes to support Katniss & Peeta to some degree. I've been rewatching the movies recently and came across your videos. Love them!
Well who? Beetee Wiress Finnick Mags Joanna Both Morphlings Blight Both district 8 tributes Finnick said not to trust 1 and 2 from the get go I doubt those 4 were in on it I’d say both from district 11 too That puts it at 12 people so that’s probably who were all in on it
Nice video Honestly i really agree with your option I think most of the tributes were orchestrated I even considered that in the bowl where the names are to be reaped for the games, it was placed Haymitch names twice So the Capitol can guaranteed know that peeta it's gonna be in the games Even I think they wouldn't do that, because Haymitch is more older and weaker and wouldn't help Katniss like Peeta
1:04 it was actually Plutarch who rigged the Quarter Quell having switched out the envelope which had already had the description of that years, the 75th hunger games, quarter quell description
Catching Fire (the book) also mentions that Johanna Mason was the only living female victor from 7! It mentions this during the recap of the reaping on the train:)
I think yes for sure Plutarch chose people who were threats to Snow so he wouldn't suspect a thing but also those who had a history with snow and would like to be part of the rebel alliance to bring him down. So brilliant of Plutarch
My Guess is... Gloss - Not Targeted Cashmere - Targeted, knew secerts like Finnick Brutus - Not Targeted Enobaria - Targeted to Punish her Brutality Beetee - Targeted/Plan Wiress - Targeted/Plan Finnick - Targeted knew too much Mags - Annie was Targeted The Morphlings - Targeted to punish for Drug Use
@Borring117 many people and I think it is in the book that the careers turn on each other when there is few tributes left. Remember the careers don't even care each other there life goal is to win the games
I'd also theorize Cecelia and Woof were intentional. We know throughout Catching Fire District 8 was one of the Districts that were rebelling and fighting back the most. My guess is they reaped a really old victor who didn't know what was happening and a woman who had 3 children that she was forced to leave behind as a way to break the citizens of District 8's spirits and make them feel as if they had no hope, since hope is what kept the Districts involved in the games going.
My opinion for chaff and seeder being part of the rebellion is because they were touched by katniss’s tribute to rue after she died and maybe as a message to katniss about that is by doing that floor painting of rue in the individual training.
personally i think Chaff was placed in by plutarch as he was really good friends with Haymitch making him seem like a person that could easliy be worked with.
Fun fun fact: in the movie I'm fairly sure the only 2 confirmed Volunteers where Clove and Katniss (Clove was confirmed to be a volunteer in a deleted scene with Caeser) edit: in the 74th hungergames
There werent many people that liked Katniss, she was rude, agressive and sometimes very paranoid, but she had the fight in her to become the rebel at the moment she went back to get Peeta and then the berries. Snow saw this and i think he by then already knew how strong she was(because he would have collected everything on her by then). I think only Mags, Beetee, Wires, Cecelia liked her, in the end Finnick to, because in the books you 2 moments between them where Katniss thinks about killing him and Finnick picking that up. I dont know, its fun to discuss tho
Hey Story diver! I love your videos!!! Can you do a video on “how the tributes were told about the rebellion’s plan” about how the rebel tributes were told their roles and things. In most fab fictions everyone gathers in the garden on the roof with the wind chimes but that seems highly unlikely
I think that all the careers, excluding brutus and possibly Enobaria, were planned. Gloss was known to have been a bit rebellious, and as you said, cashmere would be a threat by association. The pair kept talking about how the Captial citizens were their family, indicating Snow could have killed off the rest of their family member. Enobaria however, was a bit harder to read. We know that after the games were interrupted, she was allowed to go back to District Two, yet Peeta and Johanna were sent to the Capital to be tortured. However, she did seem to have some issues with the Capital, as she goes right along with Coin's plan to have the Capital's children fight in the games. We know that none of the careers were working with the rebel plan, yet the three of them seemed to have problems with the Captial. If Enobaria's reaping was planned or not, we may never know. She was a Capital favorite and had their support, but who knows if she was truly on their side. I wish we could find out more about these characters and where their loyalties lie!
To be honest, I was kind of shocked after realizing now that Cashmere did not die (or ordered to die by the capitol) soon after her brother won his hunger games as some sort of punishment like what happened to Haymitch and possibly Johanna and Finnick where their families were killed when they acted out in some way after their games.
Oh, they were absolutely placed there, at least for the most part, I just finished the book (again) a few hours ago and picking up on much more than when I was a kid reading them (I'm 27) and I definitely believe everything in the 75th hunger games was planned out by one of them
I think that both cards said Haymitch's name, as he was the one who stopped Katniss being whipped, I think Snow wanted him in the arena, especially as Peeta wouldn't be as effective getting sponsors.
I think some tributes were definitely planned, however, victors like Gloss & Cashmere obviously from District 1, regardless if they were reaped/volunteered obviously thought the games were legit. I don’t think they were planned at all as they did attack and try to kill Katniss/Peeta in the arena. Yes they did try to prevent the games during their interviews, but in the end, they tried to fight but ultimately failed. It honestly depends on the luck of the reaping bowl tbh.
could you do a video on what you think the original plan was? How would they have gotten out if Katniss didnt break the arena, if she didnt pick up on Beetees plan? love your videos!
I think that (and I just read "Catching Fire") one of Johanna's primary functions in the arena was to take the heat off of Katniss. If Johanna could make herself more annoying than Katniss, while also bullying her, Katniss, and therefore Snow, would be less likely to suspect how deep into the plan Johanna was. Johanna and Finnick also both intentionally drew fire away from Katniss by making themselves appear to e bigger threats. To be fair, because of the arena, in a normal Games, Finnick WOULD be the bigger threat if it came down to him versus Katniss. Same with Johanna, really, though you can't use an axe as quickly as a bow, but it's not like she doesn't have experience killing people.
Most people: OMG enobarias teeth are soooo evil! Me: She must go through so many toothbrushes. (Like the would just destroy the bristles and have to get a new one every day)
I believe that every single tribute except for the ones in D2 were chosen by Snow here I say why I think they were chosen and who I think was part of the rebel plan therefore placed there by Plutarch, at the end he (Plutarch) says that half the tributes were part of the plan so 12 tributes excluding Katniss and Peeta. D1: (not in the rebel plan) They are to high and close to the capitol to be trusted by rebels but its odd they both were randomly reaped, algo it’s weird they win consecutive years, Haymitch never mentions they volunteered and they wanted to stop the games just like the rebels. D2: Being the district closest to the capitol i believe their victors are spoiled citizens who see the games as something to be proud of, to gain glory and fame for and would never hurt the capitol. D3: Plutarch placed them there just like snow (rebels 1&2) They outsmarted the games, Betee used a cable not meant to be used as weaponry, killed 8 tributes at once and won the games because of it, that’s so anticlimactic for the people in the capitol and makes them look dumb, outsmarted by some district kid, something similar happened to Wiress D4: Plutarch needed Finnick, he was a ready to strike for years (Rebels 3&4) he was pretty “tamed” by now but snow knew getting reed of Annie/ Mags would destroy him. Also he is probably the only tribute who’s more loved than Katniss so that would affect her sponsors/popularity. D6: It’s obvious they knew because they gave up their lives for Peeta’s so Plutarch picked them as well, They were addicted to morflin just like Haymitch is an alcoholic, they refused or angered Snow in the past (rebels 5&6) D7: pluchart picked as well, (rebels 7&8) snow had taken everything from Johanna for refusing to be sold to capitol citizens, this was snows last slap in the face, only he didn’t know she was ready to finally strike back. D11: They were the oldest tributes (not counting mags) so probably they joined the rebeles years ago (rebels 9&10) Plutarch chose them to help and Snow because he suspected they were rebels. D5,8,9,10: at least 2 of them are rebels the pair of rebels (11&12) were chosen by Plutarch. I believe some refused to be sold to capitol citizens, others outsmarted the games but all were angry with the capitol, and that’s why snow picked them. D12: Had no fucking idea of what was going on and were too busy making out, talking about turning coal into pearls, crying, faking pregnancies and fighting about who’s gets to die endgame style (Just like Black Widow and hawkeye) snow chose them because they literally broke the most important rule of the hunger games: 24 go in, 1 comes out. That’s it :)
3:55 it kills me every time how offhanded this is from Haymitch. Like “oh yeah, she rips people’s throats out with her teeth. btw, here’s your bacon cheeseburger.”
Remember that's not possible.... Becoz a male can volunteer only for male and same goes for female too.. Volunteering in place of other gender is not possible
I think it's alot harder to purposefully reap tributes from district 1 and 2 because they have a lot more victors I think Cashmere Gloss and Enobaria were all reaped by chance and felt betrayed which is why they were determined to undermine/get back at the Capitol
Note that Cecelia was probably grouped in with Annie when I came to the level of danger she posed. She wasn’t quite mentally stable and had three young children at home. She might well have been reaped for no reason and Haymitch simply used her for what he needed. There’s also the possibility that, because of the fact that she was a mother, Plutarch and Haymitch felt she would protect children at all costs and, if it came to it, help Katniss and Peeta in the arena.
Great vid, I don’t think I would understand the films as well if I didn’t find your Chanel 😂 and yes I think the majority of tributes were orchestrated
I feel like at least every tribute except district 2 was purposeful and had been told, like the morphlings, to at least save Katniss and Peeta even if it cost their lives, like what Mags did.
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but in the case of Joanna, there would be no need for orchestration. As the only living female victor for District 7, she would have had no choice but to compete in the Games regardless of Plutarch's plan to use Joanna in the arena. As for Cecelia, if there was some orchestration to bring her into the Games, it was more likely to be Snow rather than Plutarch. Remember that when she was reaped, her three kids clung on to her begging her not to go, this would in theory make her a weak ally as she could be distracted or even depressed about leaving her kids and never seeing them again, whereas Snow may have wanted her in the Games as a tactic to reinforce that no victor is above the Capitol and what better way to achieve this than by sending a mother who seems to have been liked by the Capitol (Effie was upset to see Cecelia in the Games, which in turn implies that she is a victor who is well liked by Capitol citizens) I don't think we know much about previous winners from District 8 but it could be safe to theorise that Cecelia may have also been the only living female victor, otherwise I imagine another may have volunteered in her place (unless they were younger and from one of the recent Games and may have been too nervous or afraid to go back to the Games, An older victor who could have potentially mentored Cecelia may have taken her place, much like what Mags did for Annie). It would be interesting if one day the names and districts of all 75 victors was released.
honestly in my mindset i think every year several people volunteer in districts 1 and 2. therefore, gloss volunteered for his first games because he had trained in the academy and waited his whole life for these games. he was able to be more liked than the other male volunteers which would have made him the male tribute of 1 until he won his games. as for cashmere, i believe she also trained in an academy and so when she volunteered for her games the following year, cashmere was immediately the favorite to be chosen over the other volunteers due to the fact that her brother won the previous year. as for the 75th, i believe cashmere was reaped and then gloss volunteered.
I have an entirely different theory for the first hunger games. Book:If Marvel had waited until Katniss came to help Rue he could have aimed the spear at Katniss and sure Rue may have escaped the net, however he would have killed or seriously injured her.As for Rue if he managed to kill Katniss he could easily kill her or hunt her down. From then on I don’t really know how it would play out. Movie:Considering Katniss didn’t see Marvel in time he also could have killed her. Then again Rue would be in great danger due to the Clove not being killed. I may be overlooking something but I sorta just came up with this theory. Love U!💞
I think that Haymitch and Peeta were put in the reaping bowl, as Plutarch probably wanted Haymitch to remain as Mentor and Snow probably wanted Haymitch to die in the arena, so there was probably an equal chance of them both being reaped.
Cecelia seems like a likely Snow choice rather than Plutarch. Johanna meanwhile was the only living female from district 7 much like Katniss so her being chosen was a given.
I heard from another channel that the “trainers” in those districts actually had a list of ppl they selected (since it was supposed to be an honour). If not, there would have been a ruckus.
Brutus could have been forced or expected to volunteer, if you read or watch the interviews all of the victors are amazing actors and manipulators so they easily could of created the impression that they wanted to be there
When you said that if Annie went into the arena and died, it would break Finnick and he would stop fighting. I think he would have stopped, like you said. *BUT* if I were Finnick and just watched a loved o e die, I would probably run around killing everyone and anyone in sight (except for my teammates, unless they had something to do with the loved one’s death)
Finnick with all of his dirty little secrets about the people he was forced to sleep with was very much a threat. Maybe in some of the districts, they only had one male and one female anyway. Do you think district 12's reaping for the seventy fourth games was rigged in any way? Because theoretically, Prim and Peeta had the minimum number of entries for their respective age groups.
I doubt the reaping for the 74th games were rigged. Prim and Katniss at this point are only known as the healers daughter and the Chief Peacekeeper would most certainty NOT rigged the reaping to have either one of them. This is considering that Katniss and Gale both provide game in an impoverished district, that they would turn a blind eye on them, as it is mentioned in the books. As for Peeta, he’s just a bakers son
Maybe another reason district 11’s tributes could have wanted to help could have linked back to the friendship Katniss had with Rue in the 74th hunger games. Maybe they were friends with Rues family or at least knew them and saw the friendship between rue and Katniss and how Katniss tried to help rue and maybe they felt like they had to repay Katniss in some way for what happened. Or maybe they’d just was in awe with Katniss and Rue’s friendship and still felt the same way. It’s a little far fetched but it could be a strong possibility.
Hi friends! A quick reminder not to post spoilers for "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes". The book isn't out in many countries yet, and won't be for another few weeks, so it's incredibly inconsiderate.
Also, many of you have been asking when I'll make videos about it. I won't be making videos about it until the movie adaptation is released, as this firstly gives everyone time to buy and read the book, and secondly will allow us to use the secondary canon that is a movie to base ideas off of. Thank you and happy bubbles!
Story Diver thank you cause I haven’t got the book yet
Excelent video. I believe Chaf and Seeder happily helped Katniss after seeing the way she took care of Rue in the previous games. They must also have been grateful for Peeta’s promise to help take care of Rue and Thresh’s families financially
it's available in my country, sadly im too broke to buy 😢
Maybe it’s on Audible!
instablaster...
I think it's noteworthy that Cashmere, Gloss, and Enobaria all seemed eager to betray the Capitol despite the fact that they weren't working with the rebels. Cashmere and Gloss blatantly try to undermine Snow's authority and get the Games cancelled during their interview. And Enobaria later goes right along with Coin's plan to slaughter Capitol children for revenge. I don't have a hard time at all believing that these three were reaped on purpose. They show off a lot of anti-Capitol sentiment even in the very few scenes we see of them.
Very good point!
In the book, Enobaria was released (in the book) upon being rescued from the arena by the Capitol and allowed to go back to District 2. It was implied that she wasn't rebellious, wasn't in on the plan and played along with the Capitol well enough so Snow didn't see her as a threat. When the districts became united, she wasn't mentioned to take part in the attack on the Capitol. She was probably playing it safe, keeping a low profile until the winner could be determined. She already had immunity, guaranteed by Katniss (again in the book), so why stick her neck out? When the rebels and Coin won and she gathered them to take a vote on a Hunger Games using Capital's children, others asked why she was there quite angrily and she answered she had immunity. She also voted for the Hunger Games all the while Katniss was pondering this. That the need for blood and vengeance couldn't be sated and she thought that wouldn't be solved by one Hunger Games with Capitol's kids. It would go on and they would be no better than those who preceded them.
And they now have their Republic. Or representative democracy. As long as they can keep it.
Actually Alias I think that you are on to something there. That is really smart. So I think that this was an excuse to get rid of all/most of the victors who might start a rebellion. Katniss made them realize this. She was the main reason, but they threw in the rest because they needed to get them gone.
emptyvoices31
As valid as your point is, enobaria, had already been through more than what other career Victor's had, she tried to get the games cancelled in a way that wouldn't harm her reputation with the Capitol officials. If she was already pardoned by the Capitol after the rescue than why should she stick her neck out if she didnt need to. She wasnt being targeted by either side, so she had alot less to worry about in comparison to the other tributes like, Finnick, Katniss, Johanna, and Peeta. She knew what would happen to Johanna and Peeta and didnt want that to happen to her if she went against them. It doesn't mean she didnt hate the Capitol though. I believe she wanted to be rebellious in a way that wouldn't result in her being killed or tortured
Story Diver I gust what to say thank you for always replying to people theory’s and being nice about it :)
Honestly Brutus was probably the only tribute that wasn’t planned
It’s very possible!
Well the needed a winner, didn’t they? Brutus was probably intended to be the winner. If they picked who they wanted to die and lose, they had to pick one who they wanted to live, or it was certain that one person they wanted dead would leave.
Rebekah L. Morrisey well Brutus volunteered so that’s what I mean by it wasn’t planned (even tho Peeta and Mags also volunteered they must have had an idea that would happen if they reaped Haymich and Annie)
And about what you said about them needing a victor, that’s not necessarily true. One of the things Katniss thinks at the very end of the games after she blows up the arena is she questions if the capitol ever even intended to have a victor or those games so I don’t think they really did need a victor
Page 458, chapter 27: “will they let anyone survive? Will there be a victor of the seventy-fifth hunger games? Maybe not. After all, what is this Quarter Quell but... what was it President Snow read from the card? ‘... ad a reminder to the rebels that not even the strongest among them can overcome the power of the Capitol...’ Not even the strongest of the strong will triumph. Perhaps they never intended to have a victor in these Games”
I think they planned to have no survivors for these games so as many victors could be eliminated as possible. The last one standing would be the “victor” but they wouldn’t survive. Knowing Snow and how he plans “accidents” for people, perhaps he was hoping no one would survive these games he would cover it up saying “everyone dying wasn’t supposed to happen. The arena was too powerful”
@@patfuss8998, I think you're right. Part of reminding them that no one was stronger than the capital was proving that the gamemakers could and would kill each and every one of them with the arena. They just didn't factor in that Plutarch wasn't willing to be a tool.
I believe that Plutarch switched the cards so that Katniss had to go back into the arena so she could be removed for the rebellion. It was all part of a master plan that a few of the tributes were a part of. I don’t think Johanna was a threat. Snow killed everybody she loved because she refused to be a sex slave to the capitol. And the only reason Finnick did it cause he couldn’t stand to lose mags and Annie. I think Katniss also speculated that that’s why Haymitch had no family cause he refused too so Snow killed his loved ones.
but if the games went as president snow planned, and one person came out, there wouldn't be enough mentors to coach new tributes.
I don’t think that’s a problem, there weren’t mentors for the first few years of Games either
I never thought about that!
most of them had 3 tributes so there’d most likely have 1
If the Quell had ended as expected with one winner, then there would have been 35 victors left...they could have just rotated them every year to act as mentors, regardless of district, until enough victors had been built up again
I think the more likely answer would be that they either don’t have a mentor OR a capital citizen would be selected as their mentor! Since we know some of the first games didn’t have mentors but in the 10th games (per the new book about to come out) capital citizens like Snow were mentors!:)
I think it was so sad that Cashmere and Gloss had to be in the arena together. Imagine they made it to the final two, and one of them having to kill their sibling, their only family...if they were reaped intentionally, that’s so sad and cruel
That would have been horrible!
I think they can both win because in the 74th hunger games there was a rule change and i think rule changes are permanent
The rule was later revoked
@@saxray1341 yes, but that rule was revoked, katniss and peeta were only both allowed to win because the gamemakers thought two victors was better than no victors
If they were in the final 3, Snow could have ordered the death of one of the siblings (make it look like an accident) and then sat back and waited for the final fight.
It's sick how the capitol makes children fight, but throwing in a brother and sister? like dude, Isn't it enough to see 12-year-olds die -_-
Kathryn Plaisance, He didn't throw them there, The stupidly Volunteered xD. They also do the Hunger Games to show Not to rebel against the capital.
iiLeandroDaCilantroii they didn’t volunteer, they were reaped
I know, I thought this was the saddest part of catching fire
Me, an only child:
👁👄👁
Lord Hamsterviel, what? Haymitch said Gloss and Cashmere both volunteered
I think it's also possible that the morphlings were sent in by President Snow because they were setting a bad example and not living the lavish life the capital expects them to have, due to their crippling addiction.
It's possible!
This may be true especially with what we know in BSS. Snow resented Highbottom for his addiction and pain when he was young... maybe he still had some anger left at those who take the “easy” way out
never really thought of that
OR - they were the only living tributes from their district- why does everyone forget - maybe 50 years of tributes were alive period 25 probably from 1 & 2 -
25 remaining - 10 districts ... 20 victors -
Districts 12 & 4 have a spare so 22 victors
So a remaining 3 victors split over 8 districts not a lot of wiggle room.
There’s definitely a great shot that it was all planned.
Originally I thought this plan was just to eliminate Katniss, but this makes a whole lot more sense.
It does seem to add up!
In the books that theory is also suggested.
They mention that is very common see a Victor s son or daughter being ripped. So you can assume that if the Capitol want someone in the arena they have it.
And Joanna was the only female Victor from her district so yes she was very much forced to go like Katniss
D9 male and d5 male tried to kill katness and peeta, so it's safe to say that D5 and D9 wern't on either side.
Yeah the only people part of the rebels were districts 3,4,6,7 and 11 (12 kinda? They didn’t have info though)
And 8
@@gracegao8651 I don’t care 🤷♀️ Mags killed herself so Peeta would live
Perhaps one thing you didn’t take into account was that some of the tributes were the only person in their respective group. For instance, Johanna Mason and Katniss were the only living female victors from their districts, so there was no orchestration per se. The pools of victors of each sex in the non-Career districts was probably pretty small. Still, orchestration could definitely happened in the other cases.
Oh there are definitely cases where there wasn’t anything happening behind the scenes. Though we can’t say wether Johanna was alone purposefully for example. Always interesting to look at all the angles!
Aaron C Well there was orchestration for Katniss, because the Quell was clearly rigged to take her out after she sparked the rebellion and knowing that she would automatically be reaped being the only female victor
From what I remember, Cecelia was also the only female left for 8. I could be wrong.
@@MEGalomaniac6829 Possibly. I don't recall them saying she was the only female victor in 8, just that her kids clung to her when she was chosen
@@SF-wz5tz it was more of a movie thing. Supposedly there was a monument to the victors or something that said so. I've only read about it online and have yet to notice it in the movie. Might be something you need to pause and see. It's beeb awhile since I've seen that, so I could be completely wrong. However, given how rebellious D8 is, I doubt an older female would have let her go in...unless Cecelia made it a point to be the one to go if called. I'm sure most districts, like D12, had talked beforehand about what was going to happen at the Reaping.
One of the things that has bothered me the most about Mockingjay is Katniss made sure to find out if Bonnie and Twill made it, but never asked anyone (especially while in D8) what happened to Cecelia's husband and kids. Left us hanging.
Just think about how in the first quaterquell they voted kids in the games! Just imagine the feeling of getting voted to die 🥺
who would wiwn that though
Gadolium Nitrogen good question 😂🤔
They could either vote for the kid they thought could win, or the kid they wanted to die.
I think some districts voted for children of officials, who they feel like a traitor of their district, or an oppresive one..
Jenna Phillips
Good point. I can also imagine some petty teenagers voting their bullys tho. Or vice versa.
After watching Catching Fire many times, I always felt Brutus had some sort of "in" when it came to helping Katniss, though he kept it very subtle. The thing I picked up on is, at the start of the 75th games, after Katniss surfaces on the walkway, Brutus does too, and chases her. He then stops and isn't seen again. He could play that off as "oh well she got to her bow first and that's dangerous to me" but a strong man like him could easily chase her down on that walkway. It's a slight and subtle hint to me that he didn't wanna kill Katniss and was in on it. Or if not in on it, had enough anger at the Capitol to not want to help them.
It’s possible, but very unlikely as Brutus was not aware of the rebels’ plan, nor did he ever show any sympathy or even kindness towards Katniss
Uuh I'd say it's pretty obvious that Brutus wasn't on Katniss side. When he tries to run to the weapon stash, he only has his belt as defence and no weapon, whereas Katniss already has her bow. Engaging in a fight at that point would result in a certain death for him. Besides, if he were on their side, why would he attack them later and at the end of the games?
I think that was just poorly edited. There was absolutely no reason for him to stop chasing Katniss down as he easily could have knocked her into the water to try to get to the Cornucopia before her.
He was at a disadvantage and he knows that. If he continued he was most likely gunna die
I think even the actual rules of the quarter quell were orchestrated since it worked out a bit too well for both sides
Very true!
they were, there was a deleted scene where plutarch replaces the old 3rd quarter quell card with the new one... and it hints at it in the books it’s never OFFICIALLY said but it definitely was rewritten
Meghan Rose yeah true weren’t all the future quarter quells decided immediately after it was announced there would be an annual hunger games.
Meghan Rose I reread catching fire though and in the end Plutarch told Katniss he didn’t intend for her to be a tribute again but as a mentor so maybe the movie wanted to make it seem it was part of the grand scheme when it wasn’t?
MsBookworm07 in the book, its sorta implied that snow rewrote it, but in the movie it shows plutarch doing it. in the book plutarch didn’t want her going back in but snow wanted her dead so it makes sense that he’s the one who changed it, idk why they sorta changed that way in the movie
Cashmere was used just as Finnick was. Sending siblings or kids of former winners puts pressures on them. And Gloss was Cashmeres older brother so she was chosen to punish/ intimidate him but also to give a show to the capitol so snow could sell them as the golden siblings
Its ironic really, instead of eliminating Snows problem of rebellious and admired Victor's, he only ended up with a bigger one. Everybody put in the games by Snow, Finnick and Johanna especially, only helped Plutarchs plan.
Very true!
Love ya videos I just have a few notes 1.Johanna was always going into the arena she’s the only district 7 female tribute that’s alive.
2. In my opinion for Cashmere and Gloss I believe Gloss was the problematic one he won the 63rd hunger games but wouldn’t do what president snow ordered so Cashmere was sent into the 64th hunger games but it backfired do to the amount of sponsors Cashmere got (having her brother as mentor) Gloss probably got his sponsors to sponsor her as well as her own sponsors and she would be a crowd favorite because of the story line she gave to the games being a sibling of the previous years victor and then after that was when president snow threaten her using Haymitch as the example then when the 75th games came around president snow finally found a way to make Gloss pay for what he did so long ago (you and your sister will both go into the games and one or both will die in the thing that you were trained to love)
Very good points!!
Thank you. I also though that
1.Annie was reaped along side finnick so katniss and Peeta won’t be the only “start cross lovers” in the games therefor their pull of the crowd will be weaker specially with finnick already established popularity.
2. Well Haymitch said 1/2 the the tributes were in on the plan so that’s 6 districts minus the 2 career Districts which mean 4 districts (5,8,9,10) should have been regular reaping *specially 8 that we know in the books katniss said woolf didn’t know what was happening while they were in training (edible plants and insects) and kept trying to eat poisons insects. And Cecilia has 3 kids and a husband If she knew of the rebel plan (a mother’s love can lead to their sacrifice for their children’s future) but I think she’ll want to help but from the side lines maybe a mentor or something so her kids and husband don’t have to watch her in the arena and I think she just got unlucky and got reaped.
Just Chilling careers usually volunteer so cashmere most likely wanted to go in after gloss
Just Chilling but careers from district 1 most of the time volunteer so cashmere probably wanted to go after gloss into the games so that their family could have 2 consecutive victors i would guess and that would bring them a lot of honor and pride.
Just Chilling but i mean snow couldve still used cashmere to manipulate gloss, because gloss himself was in the games and knows how horrific it is being he participated himself. So i would assume he wouldn’t want his little sister to experience the same. But off course cashmere doesn’t know this and blinded by her brother’s victory would want to participate in the next upcoming games, so effectively snow didn’t have to do anything to sabotage the reaping for district 1, oh well the bare minimum he could possibly do was put only cashmere’s name in the bowl ( just for a what IF scenario) but i’m sure cashmere would volunteer herself.
Mags death made me cry. It is so interesting to know what her Games were like, and how did she manage to win? She's such a fair lady. Please look into it. Thanks!
Unfortunately we know nothing of her Games, though we may find out in the new book if it spans over a year!
Well, you might want to check her bio with this link 😉 thehungergames.fandom.com/wiki/Mags
Harvey Fabunan those pages can be edited by anyone and are rife with fan content / fanfiction
There is actually a guy on RUclips who was made really convincing and good storylines for mostly all the games (he is around the 60 mark) I forgot his name tho lol
She was in district 4 therefore her skill with fish hooks and other things in nature was probably what she used to her advantage,
Imagine being the tribute who won the 25th games. You gotta go home knowing at least some of the people around you sent you in
I think all of the reapings were tainted. Why would anyone think that the capital would leave it to chance?! For example Gale has his name in there around 50 times and Peta had minimal yet Peta gets picked along with Prim who has her name in once. I realize it's not impossible, however it's more likely that the capital would pick weaker tributes as much as possible from the outlying districts with one or two stronger to make it seem fair.
That makes sense!
KORIE okay i see what you are getting at, but why would they choose prim??? from all the other weaker looking district 12 females that were 12 yo??? especially considering the fact she has a sister like katniss who’s independent, and one of the capitol’s favorite quotes are “may the odds be ever in your favour” ODDS play a huge part in the whole story itself for example katniss mentioned a male tribute from district 3 who’s odds were 23-1 of winning and he ended up being the victor of that year games, meaning even if you have trained since birth to be in the games...if the odds aren’t in your favour you simply wont happen.So i actually don’t think its that far-fetched for prim to been have reaped “naturally” and why wouldn’t they leave it to chance? that makes it all the more entertaining. Do you really think katniss would’ve stood out ( well apart from her tribute parade and interview outfits) if she would’ve gotten reaped instead? the reason katniss mainly stood out was bc she was one of the first volunteers from district 12.
KORIE oh and katniss also mentioned in the books that there have been many tributes over the years from district 12 that looked like they were capable of winning the games ( they were well fed and not deficient in nutritions and looked strong) but bc of haymitch always being drunk and not taking any effort to mentor them or get sponsors for them they die early in the games.
@@tsuyuasui7297 the capital interferes in the games as well ie the mutts. Snow makes his hate for the outlying districts clear. Snow may have reaped Prim based on her young age and looks as well as to punish Katniss. The only part the capital can't control is the volunteers and since no one from 12 ever had, maybe they either didn't anticipate it or wanted to force it. Snow is a control freak so I think it's nieve to trust that they didn't interfere. All the slips of paper could just as easily be blank or all have only one name of the preselected tribute. No one besides the Capital ever sees them.
@@korie4198 why would they pick prim if they didn't know yet who katniss is?
I think it was a plan to eliminate Katniss, but with the added benefits of killing problematic victors
That makes sense!
In the book they said Johanna was the only living tribute from district 7
She was the only female tribute, yes
She doesn't have a partner?
itsme siz she was the only living female tribute. She did have a partner who was killed fairly early in the games
itsme siz blight was the male tribute
It say in movie blight he was not mutch but he was from home
The fact there is not a single time when any of the tributes try to kill Katniss, even the careers, shows that they all wanted her alive even if they weren’t aware of the plan. When Johanna cut katniss’ tracker out and she pretended to die her cannon didn’t go off so Brutus or Enobaria easily could’ve killed her. And at the cornucopia when gloss killed wiress it seemed like gloss and cashmere (who were very skilled in combat) just threw away their chances by running at the rebel alliance when if they actually wanted to win the games they would’ve been stealthy and killed Katniss or Finnick who was obviously the bigger threat.
Even at the start of the games Katniss is surrounded by all of the careers on either side so if they actually wanted her dead she would’ve been gone in the bloodbath, but as we saw gloss and enobaria hold back from running at Katniss they obviously could’ve done more to kill her if they wanted to
Tbh I never thought about it, It does make sense for them to rig the games especially the important games like the quells. But I could also see it for the regular games for example in the regular games you have the career pack and the regular tributes they would reap people based on what they wanted like for the outer districts they would choose thresh( for his size and ability to compete with the careers) only so they can keep the games interesting,I wouldn’t be surprised if it was true.
That’s a very good point!!
It's amazing that some districts even had enough victor tributes to send in the first place. Like what would have happened in 12 if Katniss hadn't survived her games? Would Haymitch and Peeta have been sent despite both being male?
I have a video about this!
I think this may be a bit of a paradox as the only reason this version of the game excisted was because of Katniss. The capitol loves their victors and where almost just as pissed as the sectors for previous winners being reaped again. Lots of winners are beloved, like Finnick. So they would not want to see them die. Also people got to know these victors after the games. They turned into more then random faces. People experience a closer experience to what it's like to see a loved one go into the games and question the games more. It's a dumb move all around. Ergo it was either pushed by Plutarch as a plan for the rebellion (which Katniss her hunger games played a huge part in). Or it was desperation from Snow to get rid of Katniss. So withoud Katniss, I doubt the quarter quell would have reaped former victors. There would have been a different game. Under the unlikely event they would push such a dumb idea and do a games like that withoud Katniss, Peeta would be very dead and not a victor. Which means Haymitch is the only one. Which means they either send 1 person, or they just reap a second one traditionaly only except for just children it can be the anyone from the whole female population of all ages of the sector to keep it ''fair''. Most sectors have male and female victors however. So that is mostly a non ishue. And the few sectors that don't could go either the reap another one random route, or use another victor of the same gender. Whatever they value most for the balance, equal male/female or equal experience and all be victors.
the only reason the tributes were reaped from the victors is bc the capitol wanted katniss dead for starting a potential rebellion
I think Cecelia could have been place in the arena by Snow as well. In the books we hear that Effie is genuenly saddened to see Cecelia in the games. This means People in the Capitol liked Cecelia. Besides Katniss point out how good natured Cecelia is and that is a woman Who could spark a rebellion. People will trust Cecelia as Katniss did in the books and they will let her guide them to war. Cecelia would want the games to end because although she has already won she has children Who could be reaped. She couldn't do this on her own but in case of a rebellion Cecelia would stand next to Katniss and be another figure to follow like Katniss herself and Finnick. She is respected by both the capitol and the districts and thus holds power in her hands that not many People hold.
Sam Chlaflin is extremely good at emotionally screaming names
Technically, I don’t think Enobaria is actually allowed to have those teeth. Bc her teeth are I think weapons. And you’re not allowed to bring weapons in the area, you’re only allowed to collect weapons in the arena. Although she probably got them in bc her district is so close to the Capital
She got her teeth filed after her initial Games. Victors were never supposed to return to the arena, so there was no reason for her not to get them sharpened
@@StoryDiver She probably gotten them as winner's makeover. She did use her real teeth in the book as weapon. It could be she broken some teeth when ripping opponent apart and gotten a new set then.
@@StoryDiver she got them because of her way killing in her games. (By ripping their throats out)
since she won by ripping out her competition's throat with her teeth, I wonder if the capital people shaped her teeth against her will. if the audience knew her as the victor who bit someone's throat out, wouldn't it make sense to make her memorable to the audience by doing something like this? we do see in the books that insane, impractical body alterations are a capital thing and not a district thing, so it would make sense if the capital forced her to have her teeth filed.
It’s also important to note that when I’n the movie Finnick came to gather Katniss and some of the other tributes to be rescued, in the book enobaria was actually with him. So that goes to add if enobaria was part of the plan. Which it doesn’t necessarily say she was but maybe she could’ve changed her mind even though she wasn’t particularity fond of katniss.
well what i believe is that Enobaria was member of the plan but had to act so far from it to make the plan become effective even if that meant killing other tributes.
ugh ive been binging your videos, love them!!!!
I'm happy you're enjoying the videos!
2:49 This scene gave spy movie debriefing vibes. Well done, Francis Lawrence
I don’t think that Cecelia was planned to be brought back to the arena, as she was a mother and a wife to 3 children and her husband. When Effie figures she was reaped, she even expresses sympathy and sadness. District 8 is the most rebellious district, so I believe that any victor would have been part of the rebel plan if they were reaped instead. I also like to believe that districts 5,9&10 were part of the plan to save katniss, (only the females as the males from 5&9 tried to kill peeta and katniss in the cornucopia), especially district 9 as so little is known on this district. I know that in the 75th hunger games, district 9 and 10 seem to have close relationships, as you can see all 4 tributes talking to one another in the waiting room to show their skills! Anyway, to end, Cecelia is my favourite character from the hunger games series, so I just wanted to add my belief. Much luv to u from England 🤍
That makes a lot of sense!
Cecelia’s also one of my favorites!! I just wish we know more about her, her games and her life!!! I’ve researched and in the movie she was meant to appear in the bloodbath but it was cut, such a shame.
District 8 Rebel I’m kinda confused is there much on Cecelia??? Cause I don’t remember her and I reread the books recently
@@DavidHernandez-ex5br There is a great fanfiction by Oisin55 called "Fall into the river". But she is not what you would expected her to be in the fic. (there is also mention of Paylor).
Cecelia is my favorite as well. As a mom, her Reaping and death broke my heart. I always thought her going into the games and sacrificing herself for the cause was so amazingly selfless. She did that for her children and their future. It was most likely only a matter of time before they were reaped themselves.
Thanks once again for making this video :) I've just re-watched it for some 'research'!
Glad it was helpful!
Seeder was one of my favorite side characters, her and katniss' few interactions were very sweet.
wow this just blew my mind and completely changed my perspective on the whole series😮 thank you
I really love these theories! It’s clear that you put a TON of thought into these, and you’re really intelligent and observant. I hope you enjoy making these as much as we love watching them.
I really do! And thank you!
If I remember correctly, it was mentioned that half of the tributes who participated in the 75th Hunger Games were "in on it" for the rebel plan and securing Katniss' extraction from the arena. I believe either Plutarch or Haymitch said this. So I think with that statement, we can assume Plutarch orchestrated close to 12 tributes to support Katniss & Peeta to some degree.
I've been rewatching the movies recently and came across your videos. Love them!
Yes it is Plutarch who mentions that half of the tributes were in on the plan at the end of Catching Fire
Well who?
Beetee
Wiress
Finnick
Mags
Joanna
Both Morphlings
Blight
Both district 8 tributes
Finnick said not to trust 1 and 2 from the get go I doubt those 4 were in on it
I’d say both from district 11 too
That puts it at 12 people so that’s probably who were all in on it
"History is written by the victor"
Gamers should know
Very true!
I mean honestly, I'm a firm believer in the theory that every single tribute ever is hand selected by either the president or a team of researchers.
Haymitch casually saying "she had them filed in to fangs so she could rip people's throats out" 🤣🤣
@Stephanie Allen yeah I love how calmly he says it
Nice video
Honestly i really agree with your option
I think most of the tributes were orchestrated
I even considered that in the bowl where the names are to be reaped for the games, it was placed Haymitch names twice
So the Capitol can guaranteed know that peeta it's gonna be in the games
Even I think they wouldn't do that, because Haymitch is more older and weaker and wouldn't help Katniss like Peeta
I agree that they likely used the slips of paper to ensure the tribute they wanted would go in, wether through reaping or volunteering
1:04 it was actually Plutarch who rigged the Quarter Quell having switched out the envelope which had already had the description of that years, the 75th hunger games, quarter quell description
If Rue had won the 74th hunger games, she could have been mentoring Seeder and Chav
true but true
Omg I love these videos and I can’t stop watching them. Good job on the video
Thank you!
I cant believe it took me so many years to finally watch this saga. Maybe should have read the books first but I’m loving this. Thanks for your video!
Catching Fire (the book) also mentions that Johanna Mason was the only living female victor from 7! It mentions this during the recap of the reaping on the train:)
I think yes for sure Plutarch chose people who were threats to Snow so he wouldn't suspect a thing but also those who had a history with snow and would like to be part of the rebel alliance to bring him down. So brilliant of Plutarch
My Guess is...
Gloss - Not Targeted
Cashmere - Targeted, knew secerts like Finnick
Brutus - Not Targeted
Enobaria - Targeted to Punish her Brutality
Beetee - Targeted/Plan
Wiress - Targeted/Plan
Finnick - Targeted knew too much
Mags - Annie was Targeted
The Morphlings - Targeted to punish for Drug Use
I was looking for content like this thank god for you!
is anyone else confused how we never see a career pack turn on each other
Yes
@Borring117 many people and I think it is in the book that the careers turn on each other when there is few tributes left. Remember the careers don't even care each other there life goal is to win the games
i love this theory completely. i feel like it’s true that almost all of the tribute reapings were orchestrated by snow or plutarch.
Thank you!
I'd also theorize Cecelia and Woof were intentional. We know throughout Catching Fire District 8 was one of the Districts that were rebelling and fighting back the most. My guess is they reaped a really old victor who didn't know what was happening and a woman who had 3 children that she was forced to leave behind as a way to break the citizens of District 8's spirits and make them feel as if they had no hope, since hope is what kept the Districts involved in the games going.
My opinion for chaff and seeder being part of the rebellion is because they were touched by katniss’s tribute to rue after she died and maybe as a message to katniss about that is by doing that floor painting of rue in the individual training.
Peeta is the one who painted the painting of Rue
Story Diver was it said in the book? But that makes sense with peeta used to decorating cakes in the bakery.
in addition if im not mistaken either in the book or the movie it was said/mentioed that Haymitch and Chaff were very good friends (drinking buddies).
personally i think Chaff was placed in by plutarch as he was really good friends with Haymitch making him seem like a person that could easliy be worked with.
Fun fun fact: in the movie I'm fairly sure the only 2 confirmed Volunteers where Clove and Katniss (Clove was confirmed to be a volunteer in a deleted scene with Caeser) edit: in the 74th hungergames
Also Cato
There werent many people that liked Katniss, she was rude, agressive and sometimes very paranoid, but she had the fight in her to become the rebel at the moment she went back to get Peeta and then the berries.
Snow saw this and i think he by then already knew how strong she was(because he would have collected everything on her by then).
I think only Mags, Beetee, Wires, Cecelia liked her, in the end Finnick to, because in the books you 2 moments between them where Katniss thinks about killing him and Finnick picking that up.
I dont know, its fun to discuss tho
Hey Story diver! I love your videos!!! Can you do a video on “how the tributes were told about the rebellion’s plan” about how the rebel tributes were told their roles and things. In most fab fictions everyone gathers in the garden on the roof with the wind chimes but that seems highly unlikely
I'll look into it!
I never thoght about this but it makes sense perfectly...it seems too good to not be true
It definitely adds up perfectly!
I think that all the careers, excluding brutus and possibly Enobaria, were planned. Gloss was known to have been a bit rebellious, and as you said, cashmere would be a threat by association. The pair kept talking about how the Captial citizens were their family, indicating Snow could have killed off the rest of their family member. Enobaria however, was a bit harder to read. We know that after the games were interrupted, she was allowed to go back to District Two, yet Peeta and Johanna were sent to the Capital to be tortured. However, she did seem to have some issues with the Capital, as she goes right along with Coin's plan to have the Capital's children fight in the games. We know that none of the careers were working with the rebel plan, yet the three of them seemed to have problems with the Captial. If Enobaria's reaping was planned or not, we may never know. She was a Capital favorite and had their support, but who knows if she was truly on their side. I wish we could find out more about these characters and where their loyalties lie!
To be honest, I was kind of shocked after realizing now that Cashmere did not die (or ordered to die by the capitol) soon after her brother won his hunger games as some sort of punishment like what happened to Haymitch and possibly Johanna and Finnick where their families were killed when they acted out in some way after their games.
Oh, they were absolutely placed there, at least for the most part, I just finished the book (again) a few hours ago and picking up on much more than when I was a kid reading them (I'm 27) and I definitely believe everything in the 75th hunger games was planned out by one of them
It was definitely predetermined because it is very unlikely that everyone they wanted would be reaped. Also first
Well done on being first 😂
Isn't it weird that Annie is the only person with a non futuristic name
Joanna and Gale ?
I think that both cards said Haymitch's name, as he was the one who stopped Katniss being whipped, I think Snow wanted him in the arena, especially as Peeta wouldn't be as effective getting sponsors.
After reading the ballad of songbirds I think most of the reapings had tributes already sellected
I think some tributes were definitely planned, however, victors like Gloss & Cashmere obviously from District 1, regardless if they were reaped/volunteered obviously thought the games were legit. I don’t think they were planned at all as they did attack and try to kill Katniss/Peeta in the arena. Yes they did try to prevent the games during their interviews, but in the end, they tried to fight but ultimately failed. It honestly depends on the luck of the reaping bowl tbh.
could you do a video on what you think the original plan was? How would they have gotten out if Katniss didnt break the arena, if she didnt pick up on Beetees plan? love your videos!
I'll look into it!
Well you have to remember that Finnick said that Cashmere was sold as well
I think that (and I just read "Catching Fire") one of Johanna's primary functions in the arena was to take the heat off of Katniss. If Johanna could make herself more annoying than Katniss, while also bullying her, Katniss, and therefore Snow, would be less likely to suspect how deep into the plan Johanna was. Johanna and Finnick also both intentionally drew fire away from Katniss by making themselves appear to e bigger threats. To be fair, because of the arena, in a normal Games, Finnick WOULD be the bigger threat if it came down to him versus Katniss. Same with Johanna, really, though you can't use an axe as quickly as a bow, but it's not like she doesn't have experience killing people.
Most people: OMG enobarias teeth are soooo evil!
Me: She must go through so many toothbrushes. (Like the would just destroy the bristles and have to get a new one every day)
I think that they were pre-determined and that plutarch persuaded Snow to send them in because Plutarch new about the plan
Seems very possible!
I believe that every single tribute except for the ones in D2 were chosen by Snow here I say why I think they were chosen and who I think was part of the rebel plan therefore placed there by Plutarch, at the end he (Plutarch) says that half the tributes were part of the plan so 12 tributes excluding Katniss and Peeta.
D1: (not in the rebel plan) They are to high and close to the capitol to be trusted by rebels but its odd they both were randomly reaped, algo it’s weird they win consecutive years, Haymitch never mentions they volunteered and they wanted to stop the games just like the rebels.
D2: Being the district closest to the capitol i believe their victors are spoiled citizens who see the games as something to be proud of, to gain glory and fame for and would never hurt the capitol.
D3: Plutarch placed them there just like snow (rebels 1&2) They outsmarted the games, Betee used a cable not meant to be used as weaponry, killed 8 tributes at once and won the games because of it, that’s so anticlimactic for the people in the capitol and makes them look dumb, outsmarted by some district kid, something similar happened to Wiress
D4: Plutarch needed Finnick, he was a ready to strike for years (Rebels 3&4) he was pretty “tamed” by now but snow knew getting reed of Annie/ Mags would destroy him. Also he is probably the only tribute who’s more loved than Katniss so that would affect her sponsors/popularity.
D6: It’s obvious they knew because they gave up their lives for Peeta’s so Plutarch picked them as well, They were addicted to morflin just like Haymitch is an alcoholic, they refused or angered Snow in the past (rebels 5&6)
D7: pluchart picked as well, (rebels 7&8) snow had taken everything from Johanna for refusing to be sold to capitol citizens, this was snows last slap in the face, only he didn’t know she was ready to finally strike back.
D11: They were the oldest tributes (not counting mags) so probably they joined the rebeles years ago (rebels 9&10) Plutarch chose them to help and Snow because he suspected they were rebels.
D5,8,9,10: at least 2 of them are rebels the pair of rebels (11&12) were chosen by Plutarch. I believe some refused to be sold to capitol citizens, others outsmarted the games but all were angry with the capitol, and that’s why snow picked them.
D12: Had no fucking idea of what was going on and were too busy making out, talking about turning coal into pearls, crying, faking pregnancies and fighting about who’s gets to die endgame style (Just like Black Widow and hawkeye) snow chose them because they literally broke the most important rule of the hunger games: 24 go in, 1 comes out.
That’s it :)
You always have the answer to the questions I have I love you and your videos
Thank you!
Story Diver your welcome
This video is even more entertaining when you imagine random objects like baguettes in the hands while she does those weird gestures.
3:55 it kills me every time how offhanded this is from Haymitch. Like “oh yeah, she rips people’s throats out with her teeth. btw, here’s your bacon cheeseburger.”
I think if Cashmere was placed in the arena it's possible her brother Gloss volunteered to try and keep her safe because they were so close
Remember that's not possible....
Becoz a male can volunteer only for male and same goes for female too..
Volunteering in place of other gender is not possible
I think it's alot harder to purposefully reap tributes from district 1 and 2 because they have a lot more victors
I think Cashmere Gloss and Enobaria were all reaped by chance and felt betrayed which is why they were determined to undermine/get back at the Capitol
Note that Cecelia was probably grouped in with Annie when I came to the level of danger she posed. She wasn’t quite mentally stable and had three young children at home. She might well have been reaped for no reason and Haymitch simply used her for what he needed.
There’s also the possibility that, because of the fact that she was a mother, Plutarch and Haymitch felt she would protect children at all costs and, if it came to it, help Katniss and Peeta in the arena.
Great vid, I don’t think I would understand the films as well if I didn’t find your Chanel 😂 and yes I think the majority of tributes were orchestrated
Thank you! I’m happy the channel is helping you see the series in a different light!
I think cashmere got reaped and gloss felt guilty so he volunteered
Some of them were placed and the opposition needed a coherent group in the arena to break the competition. Dive safely.
It's possible!
I feel like at least every tribute except district 2 was purposeful and had been told, like the morphlings, to at least save Katniss and Peeta even if it cost their lives, like what Mags did.
what i think it is is that no one likes district 2 like people like district 1 for god sake and they're all snobs.
Not sure if it has been mentioned yet but in the case of Joanna, there would be no need for orchestration. As the only living female victor for District 7, she would have had no choice but to compete in the Games regardless of Plutarch's plan to use Joanna in the arena. As for Cecelia, if there was some orchestration to bring her into the Games, it was more likely to be Snow rather than Plutarch. Remember that when she was reaped, her three kids clung on to her begging her not to go, this would in theory make her a weak ally as she could be distracted or even depressed about leaving her kids and never seeing them again, whereas Snow may have wanted her in the Games as a tactic to reinforce that no victor is above the Capitol and what better way to achieve this than by sending a mother who seems to have been liked by the Capitol (Effie was upset to see Cecelia in the Games, which in turn implies that she is a victor who is well liked by Capitol citizens) I don't think we know much about previous winners from District 8 but it could be safe to theorise that Cecelia may have also been the only living female victor, otherwise I imagine another may have volunteered in her place (unless they were younger and from one of the recent Games and may have been too nervous or afraid to go back to the Games, An older victor who could have potentially mentored Cecelia may have taken her place, much like what Mags did for Annie). It would be interesting if one day the names and districts of all 75 victors was released.
honestly in my mindset i think every year several people volunteer in districts 1 and 2. therefore, gloss volunteered for his first games because he had trained in the academy and waited his whole life for these games. he was able to be more liked than the other male volunteers which would have made him the male tribute of 1 until he won his games. as for cashmere, i believe she also trained in an academy and so when she volunteered for her games the following year, cashmere was immediately the favorite to be chosen over the other volunteers due to the fact that her brother won the previous year. as for the 75th, i believe cashmere was reaped and then gloss volunteered.
Bless up for you because everything is all making sense.
Thank you!
I have an entirely different theory for the first hunger games.
Book:If Marvel had waited until Katniss came to help Rue he could have aimed the spear at Katniss and sure Rue may have escaped the net, however he would have killed or seriously injured her.As for Rue if he managed to kill Katniss he could easily kill her or hunt her down. From then on I don’t really know how it would play out.
Movie:Considering Katniss didn’t see Marvel in time he also could have killed her. Then again Rue would be in great danger due to the Clove not being killed.
I may be overlooking something but I sorta just came up with this theory. Love U!💞
Marvel does aim for Katniss in the books, she dodges it and that's how Rue is killed. So your theory is right on point!
Story Diver Oh yup I’ve defiantly overlooked something then. I guess I just wanted to see what would happen then.😂😆
I think that Haymitch and Peeta were put in the reaping bowl, as Plutarch probably wanted Haymitch to remain as Mentor and Snow probably wanted Haymitch to die in the arena, so there was probably an equal chance of them both being reaped.
Cecelia seems like a likely Snow choice rather than Plutarch. Johanna meanwhile was the only living female from district 7 much like Katniss so her being chosen was a given.
Your videos are amazing!!!!!!!
Thank you so much!!
First few years of the Hunger Games: No mentors
Tribute: Holy-
i mean, it did say in the books that districts 3,4,6,7,8,11 were the other districts in on the plan, soooooo ya...
I love your videos and I also dig that lipstick!
Thank you!
@@StoryDiver 😂❤
i wonder what would happen if careers kept volunteering for each other at the reaping, can you volunteer for a volunteer?
I have a video about this!
I heard from another channel that the “trainers” in those districts actually had a list of ppl they selected (since it was supposed to be an honour). If not, there would have been a ruckus.
Brutus sort of seems like a wild card
It makes sence that Chaff is part of the plan,but he wasn't sticking with the 2 groups, he was alone.
Is it not a bit weird that Cashmere and Gloss won games back to back
Brutus could have been forced or expected to volunteer, if you read or watch the interviews all of the victors are amazing actors and manipulators so they easily could of created the impression that they wanted to be there
Very true!
When you said that if Annie went into the arena and died, it would break Finnick and he would stop fighting. I think he would have stopped, like you said. *BUT* if I were Finnick and just watched a loved o e die, I would probably run around killing everyone and anyone in sight (except for my teammates, unless they had something to do with the loved one’s death)
Finnick with all of his dirty little secrets about the people he was forced to sleep with was very much a threat. Maybe in some of the districts, they only had one male and one female anyway.
Do you think district 12's reaping for the seventy fourth games was rigged in any way? Because theoretically, Prim and Peeta had the minimum number of entries for their respective age groups.
It’s possible their reapings were rigged!
I doubt the reaping for the 74th games were rigged. Prim and Katniss at this point are only known as the healers daughter and the Chief Peacekeeper would most certainty NOT rigged the reaping to have either one of them. This is considering that Katniss and Gale both provide game in an impoverished district, that they would turn a blind eye on them, as it is mentioned in the books. As for Peeta, he’s just a bakers son
omg i love when u talking about hunger games😃
Thank you!
Maybe another reason district 11’s tributes could have wanted to help could have linked back to the friendship Katniss had with Rue in the 74th hunger games. Maybe they were friends with Rues family or at least knew them and saw the friendship between rue and Katniss and how Katniss tried to help rue and maybe they felt like they had to repay Katniss in some way for what happened. Or maybe they’d just was in awe with Katniss and Rue’s friendship and still felt the same way. It’s a little far fetched but it could be a strong possibility.