Just got my first compound bow. And it’s the Alpha X 33 Tombstone. Feels like a tank in hand and looks like a fighter jet. I absolutely love this bow. Had a hard time choosing between Mathews Lift and Alpha X. But glad i went with the Hoyt.
Seeing the draw force curve of the Alpha X 33 helps to understand why the first time I drew that bow I fell in love with it. A very short chunk of heavy weight quickly dissipating is a good thing for my 54 year old shoulders! I am typically between 30" and 30.5" of draw and when I first shot the Alpha X 33 I set it at 30.5". Shot about 3 arrows and felt slightly overextended. Moved the mod to 30.25" and it was perfect. Much more stable and I started pounding X's right away. The 1/4" draw adjustment is a feature that really needs to become standard in the industry, but I understand those with draw specific mods would really be in trouble to try and manufacture that many different mods. I also have an RX-8 Ultra along with my Alpha X 33 and I can feel the difference in the draw force curve for sure, but both are still very smooth. I wonder if part of the difference is not just the cam orientation related to different brace, a to a, and draw length range, but also due to the riser material? Could the riser material affect how the draw feels with one being more stiff than the other? I don't know. I realize that bow sales in terms of brand are often regional, but in my local shop (a relatively large shop) where they have normally sold around 150 Mathews each year, they are on pace to sell less than 100 this year. While at the same time, they are on pace to sell 1.5X the number Hoyt's they normally sell. That is just interesting to note. Your review process is easily the most complete and objective of any reviewer on RUclips. Easily. Thank you!
Really appreciative and thankful for your comment! We are trying hard to be very data-driven and objective with our reviews - so many good bows out there it's important to understand whats what! Really cool to hear about your experience with the Hoyt RX-8 and the Alpha X platform. I believe the differences have to do with orientation of the cams and the sizing of the modules for different draw lengths between the two models. That said, the carbon riser may be giving a little extra flex compared to the aluminum - although I am not sure how much of an impact that would have. Speaking of smooth drawing bows, have you tried the PSE EC cams on any bows? I've always found that system to be extremely smooth and agreeable as well.
Thank you. I have not tried the PSE EC cams, sadly the only PSE dealer near me is a very small shop and they never have anything in stock. I would like to try PSE and Elite, but availability near me is very limited, add to that I am a lefty and it is even more of a challenge to find bows to test. Thank you again for your solid review process. @@ApexArchery
I love your reviews! You actually put numbers to the “feel” of the bow. Most guys just shoot a few arrows and describe how they think it feels which doesn’t really matter anyway because almost everyone is sponsored. Thanks for the great reviews
Thank you for saying so! I will say, I generally love watching reviews from lots of different archers. Maybe that is simply because I really love archery and our equipment! But I did want to get a bit more rigorous about quantifying all of the engineering that goes into these bows, and hopefully more objective about which products are "optimal". That said, even shooting at different draw lengths on a module can radically change how a bow feels and performs - so you really do need to try them for yourself. Fortunately, demo'ing bows is really fun as well.
@ApexArchery been team mathews forever. However I wasn't impressed with the lift. Just wasn't. Overall esthetics yes, I loved the very tight rectangular design, but the draw cycle sucked, the back wall sucked, and so much vibration. That hoyts draw cycle was money, the backwall was money, and let down was money, it broke my heart at first foing hoyt,but I am not sad about it. It's a much better bow, hands down. Paired with that qad mx2 rest and ultra view slider sight. It's very very very nice 👌
Similar here. My biggest challenge with the Lift 33 was I was caught between a C and D mod and was too long at C and too short at D. Too long and I am unstable and too short and I grip torque more. The lack of a valley also made the Lift unshootable for my style of hinge release shooting. While there is no hard data yet to back up this thought, I worry the limbs and cams are kind of fragile on the Lift and wonder about long term durability. Grab a lift and set one cam on your shoe and then use your thumb to push the other cam back and forth while the bow is at brace - the flex in those limbs is just scary. @@johnhusenitaii7001
Thank you! We are trying hard to be as tidy and objective as we can. I want viewers to have the facts so that they can make the best decision based on what's important to them in a bow.
Can't tell you how much the positive comments mean to me - thank you! These reviews are a lot of work, but I really enjoy making them and I'm glad you're enjoying.
New subscriber! I enjoyed the in depth technical review. With an engineering background myself I'm looking forward to watching more of these. I shot an Alpha X 30 Saturday and enjoyed the draw cycle so much more than the Lift 29.5!
I always thought the Hoyt carbon bow compared to the aluminium bow had a different draw force curve, which seemed rather odd being they share the same specs and cams. I thought it was just me, but now I see the evidence. These reviews are so informative and helpful!
Thank you for saying something! I agree - really interesting to see a pretty big difference in the engineering between the offerings from Hoyt. I guess that is the advantage of having 2 different flagship models: you have the chance to offer different materials AND different shooting feel.
The biggest difference here is that at 30” you are in the longest position of the number 2 module on the RX8 Ultra while you are in a middle position of the number 3 module on the Alpha X 33.
@@mikereed845 great thought and feedback! I suppose its fascinating whether attributed to fundamental difference in the bows, or differences in range utilization of the modules. Goes to show how different draw cycles can feel across modules and draw lengths!
Good work! Since you are already recording the draw curve potential energy and the physical speed at launch maybe consider comparing launch KE to the potential energy of the bow from the draw curve. This will give you an efficiency of energy transfer. It will also indicate how much noice and vibration is transferred to the bow from the shot process. Just a suggestion keep up the good work.
Love the suggestion, and that is exactly on my radar! When I do a "round up" at the end (I need to review about 5 more bows for the longer ATA series) I am planning to get into the energy transfer and efficiency rating for sure! Interestingly, I have a bow on test right now which should be shooting much faster (given the draw force curve and general specs), yet it vibrates a lot and has proven to be loud! They are leaking energy into the riser and the air, unfortunately.
@@ApexArchery Awesome! I look forward to it, I was planning on doing something similar but comparing bows energy curve at different draw lengths relative to the speed they deliver.
Love your reviews, what tool do you use to graph a bows power curve. Would love to do something similar that’s easier than a load scale and tape measure taking data points.
Thank you for providing that info! You are correct! Very interesting that they advertise a different BH (by 1/16th) on the website, and that they say the ATA should be 33" when they are VERY specific about ATA measurement with the RX-8 Ultra. Regardless, that goes to show that this bow was well within factory spec. That is a bit of a relief - I was a bit worried that the ATA was coming in nearly 1/2" long.
Out of curiosity, since you have mentioned it. How wide are the limb sets on it compared to the other brands ? Bowtech seems to like wider limbs as well. Thanks
I think you have the BEST reviews of any I have seen on RUclips - but please add a subjective "shoot ability / practical field accuracy" comment when you wrap up this series. You might also show a 5 lb "tare" of your handheld bow scale. I have a bit of experience with scales and I don't think those scales are very precise. I've been shooting compounds more or less since they were invented and I am in process of considering an upgrade from my 2010 Model year Hoyt Maxxis. I've watched tons of reviews from all the likely suspects. Many folks have some kind of personal touch or angle that makes there videos interesting and of value. But, I must say again that I think your reviews are the best overall. And yet, you have among the fewest subscribers. I hope many others discover your channel soon. There is another fellow out there who does good reviews with value, and yet he does kind of half *arse measurements that frankly do not match your measurements, and he then penalizes bows if they don't match up to advertised specs. I value and appreciate what he does, but it often seems like he puts his thumb on the scale ... or maybe he is just a little sloppy (but he does not seem like a sloppy minded fellow...). In contrast, you actually use precise instruments and use them properly to take precise measurements, etc. Since you are being so precise, I would ask that you consider showing the viewers a "tare" of your handheld bow scale because in the video's I've watched so far, the weights are consistently coming in about .2 lbs "heavy" vs advertised weight. I don't trust hand held bow sales to be precise when measuring a dynamic hanging weight. I have a few scales and I KNOW they do not match each other. They might be "repeatable" but they are not super accurate. Your reviews of the high end, long ATA bows have been principally focused on measurable analytics with only a few subjective comments and those comments are typically backed up with subsequent measurements with "real" instruments. I hope that when you do your final wrap you add a longer discussion of your personal opinion on "shoot ability" or whatever you want to call it. Sadly, it seems as if there have not been significant gains made in raw speed since I purchased my Maxxis in 2010. In your own reviews, the "hot" Matthews Lift is "only" running about 7-8 fps faster than the Alpha X and 9 fps faster than the RX8 Ultra using IBO arrow weights that are rarely used for hunting... and that supposed speed "advantage" is immediately cut by about 2.5 fps when the Matthew speed is normalized (reduced) to account for its exaggerated 30.25 inch draw. BTW, the engineers at Matthew know darn well what the actual draw length is. No doubt the "rounding error" to a "30.25" draw was deliberate in order to add a few "fake" fps. Take those normalized arrow speeds (adjusted for Matthews longer draw length) and then look at the differences at normal hunting arrow weights of around 500 grains +/- perhaps 50 grains and the difference between the "hot" 33" Lift and the extremely forgiving RX8 Ultra is likely only about 5-6 fps at most (again after adjusting for draw length). Sure, I'll take all the speed I can get, but I won't trade much "shoot ability" for 5-7 fps. Speed appears to no longer be the key competitive driver on bow competition. Shootability and practical hunting accuracy are likely more important today.
Appreciate the thoughtful and thorough comment and feedback! One note about the scale I use: I am fairly optimistic that it is accurate because I use it to check poundage on bows, which is again verified when I put the bows on the dyno/drawboard - and the poundages always come in nearly identical (e.g. a bow that pulls 70.0 lbs on the hand scale will show 70.0 lbs when checking the draw force curve with a very accurate scale). But I do agree that it would be good to check weights multiple times - perhaps across 2 different scales! I'm certainly going to add a bit of added subjective thoughts when I do the wrap up video summarizing the longer ATA bows. That said, I want to present this information to be as objective as possible so that the viewers can make the best decision for their equipment based on what they want/value in a bow.
Just got my first compound bow. And it’s the Alpha X 33 Tombstone. Feels like a tank in hand and looks like a fighter jet. I absolutely love this bow. Had a hard time choosing between Mathews Lift and Alpha X. But glad i went with the Hoyt.
Awesome! Hope you love it as you shoot it in. Lots of manufacturers making terrific products these days.
Seeing the draw force curve of the Alpha X 33 helps to understand why the first time I drew that bow I fell in love with it. A very short chunk of heavy weight quickly dissipating is a good thing for my 54 year old shoulders! I am typically between 30" and 30.5" of draw and when I first shot the Alpha X 33 I set it at 30.5". Shot about 3 arrows and felt slightly overextended. Moved the mod to 30.25" and it was perfect. Much more stable and I started pounding X's right away. The 1/4" draw adjustment is a feature that really needs to become standard in the industry, but I understand those with draw specific mods would really be in trouble to try and manufacture that many different mods.
I also have an RX-8 Ultra along with my Alpha X 33 and I can feel the difference in the draw force curve for sure, but both are still very smooth. I wonder if part of the difference is not just the cam orientation related to different brace, a to a, and draw length range, but also due to the riser material? Could the riser material affect how the draw feels with one being more stiff than the other? I don't know.
I realize that bow sales in terms of brand are often regional, but in my local shop (a relatively large shop) where they have normally sold around 150 Mathews each year, they are on pace to sell less than 100 this year. While at the same time, they are on pace to sell 1.5X the number Hoyt's they normally sell. That is just interesting to note.
Your review process is easily the most complete and objective of any reviewer on RUclips. Easily. Thank you!
Really appreciative and thankful for your comment! We are trying hard to be very data-driven and objective with our reviews - so many good bows out there it's important to understand whats what!
Really cool to hear about your experience with the Hoyt RX-8 and the Alpha X platform. I believe the differences have to do with orientation of the cams and the sizing of the modules for different draw lengths between the two models. That said, the carbon riser may be giving a little extra flex compared to the aluminum - although I am not sure how much of an impact that would have.
Speaking of smooth drawing bows, have you tried the PSE EC cams on any bows? I've always found that system to be extremely smooth and agreeable as well.
Thank you. I have not tried the PSE EC cams, sadly the only PSE dealer near me is a very small shop and they never have anything in stock. I would like to try PSE and Elite, but availability near me is very limited, add to that I am a lefty and it is even more of a challenge to find bows to test. Thank you again for your solid review process. @@ApexArchery
I love your reviews! You actually put numbers to the “feel” of the bow. Most guys just shoot a few arrows and describe how they think it feels which doesn’t really matter anyway because almost everyone is sponsored. Thanks for the great reviews
Thank you for saying so!
I will say, I generally love watching reviews from lots of different archers. Maybe that is simply because I really love archery and our equipment! But I did want to get a bit more rigorous about quantifying all of the engineering that goes into these bows, and hopefully more objective about which products are "optimal". That said, even shooting at different draw lengths on a module can radically change how a bow feels and performs - so you really do need to try them for yourself. Fortunately, demo'ing bows is really fun as well.
Another great review! Keep it up and this channel should grow like crazy.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it and hope it was useful!
I absolutely love my alpha x 33 in wilderness green. So excited to make the hoyt leap from mathews this year
Really awesome to hear! Super curious - why did you make the switch from Mathews to Hoyt, and what are you enjoying most about the Hoyt so far?
@ApexArchery been team mathews forever. However I wasn't impressed with the lift. Just wasn't. Overall esthetics yes, I loved the very tight rectangular design, but the draw cycle sucked, the back wall sucked, and so much vibration. That hoyts draw cycle was money, the backwall was money, and let down was money, it broke my heart at first foing hoyt,but I am not sad about it. It's a much better bow, hands down. Paired with that qad mx2 rest and ultra view slider sight. It's very very very nice 👌
Thank you for the follow up and for sharing your experience with these bows. Really happy to hear that you found a bow you love!
Similar here. My biggest challenge with the Lift 33 was I was caught between a C and D mod and was too long at C and too short at D. Too long and I am unstable and too short and I grip torque more. The lack of a valley also made the Lift unshootable for my style of hinge release shooting. While there is no hard data yet to back up this thought, I worry the limbs and cams are kind of fragile on the Lift and wonder about long term durability. Grab a lift and set one cam on your shoe and then use your thumb to push the other cam back and forth while the bow is at brace - the flex in those limbs is just scary. @@johnhusenitaii7001
Very good review! No bla bla bla, no self presentation, just facts and numbers. Great
Thank you! We are trying hard to be as tidy and objective as we can. I want viewers to have the facts so that they can make the best decision based on what's important to them in a bow.
I appreciate your reviews and the in depth analysis 👍🏻
Can't tell you how much the positive comments mean to me - thank you! These reviews are a lot of work, but I really enjoy making them and I'm glad you're enjoying.
New subscriber! I enjoyed the in depth technical review. With an engineering background myself I'm looking forward to watching more of these. I shot an Alpha X 30 Saturday and enjoyed the draw cycle so much more than the Lift 29.5!
Glad to hear that you're finding something you love. I hope the reviews are helpful.
I always thought the Hoyt carbon bow compared to the aluminium bow had a different draw force curve, which seemed rather odd being they share the same specs and cams. I thought it was just me, but now I see the evidence. These reviews are so informative and helpful!
Thank you for saying something!
I agree - really interesting to see a pretty big difference in the engineering between the offerings from Hoyt. I guess that is the advantage of having 2 different flagship models: you have the chance to offer different materials AND different shooting feel.
The biggest difference here is that at 30” you are in the longest position of the number 2 module on the RX8 Ultra while you are in a middle position of the number 3 module on the Alpha X 33.
@@mikereed845 great thought and feedback! I suppose its fascinating whether attributed to fundamental difference in the bows, or differences in range utilization of the modules. Goes to show how different draw cycles can feel across modules and draw lengths!
I just bought one. It’s so damn nice
Really glad you're loving it!
@@ApexArchery thanks man. I was comparing it to the lift and it just felt so much smoother and comfortable. She’s a beaut
Can't wait for my alpha X to come in!!
Awesome review👍 Can’t wait to see what is next. If I had to guess I would say Elite Ethos 😎
Next up is something a bit more rare and exotic than even the Elite - but I am in the process of getting the Ethos in for testing shortly.
Excellent reviews, I love the format.
Thank you! 2 more reviews coming in this week!
Good review
Good work! Since you are already recording the draw curve potential energy and the physical speed at launch maybe consider comparing launch KE to the potential energy of the bow from the draw curve. This will give you an efficiency of energy transfer. It will also indicate how much noice and vibration is transferred to the bow from the shot process. Just a suggestion keep up the good work.
Love the suggestion, and that is exactly on my radar! When I do a "round up" at the end (I need to review about 5 more bows for the longer ATA series) I am planning to get into the energy transfer and efficiency rating for sure!
Interestingly, I have a bow on test right now which should be shooting much faster (given the draw force curve and general specs), yet it vibrates a lot and has proven to be loud! They are leaking energy into the riser and the air, unfortunately.
@@ApexArchery Awesome! I look forward to it, I was planning on doing something similar but comparing bows energy curve at different draw lengths relative to the speed they deliver.
Love your reviews, what tool do you use to graph a bows power curve. Would love to do something similar that’s easier than a load scale and tape measure taking data points.
Are you planning to test any of the shorter axle to axle bows? Great work, very informative videos.
I would like to do a series on shorter ATA bows, once I wrap up this series on longer bows. Which ones would you like to see on test?
@@ApexArchery I would love to see the sequel 31, alpha x 30, lift 29.5 and rx8. Thanks!
@@TRUTH609 noted! Thank you for the feedback.
Second! This is awesome
Hoyt tune charts states 33 7/16" AtA and 6 7/16"
Thank you for providing that info! You are correct! Very interesting that they advertise a different BH (by 1/16th) on the website, and that they say the ATA should be 33" when they are VERY specific about ATA measurement with the RX-8 Ultra.
Regardless, that goes to show that this bow was well within factory spec. That is a bit of a relief - I was a bit worried that the ATA was coming in nearly 1/2" long.
Out of curiosity, since you have mentioned it. How wide are the limb sets on it compared to the other brands ? Bowtech seems to like wider limbs as well. Thanks
Would like to see a review on the prime rvx !
I think you have the BEST reviews of any I have seen on RUclips - but please add a subjective "shoot ability / practical field accuracy" comment when you wrap up this series. You might also show a 5 lb "tare" of your handheld bow scale. I have a bit of experience with scales and I don't think those scales are very precise.
I've been shooting compounds more or less since they were invented and I am in process of considering an upgrade from my 2010 Model year Hoyt Maxxis. I've watched tons of reviews from all the likely suspects. Many folks have some kind of personal touch or angle that makes there videos interesting and of value. But, I must say again that I think your reviews are the best overall. And yet, you have among the fewest subscribers. I hope many others discover your channel soon.
There is another fellow out there who does good reviews with value, and yet he does kind of half *arse measurements that frankly do not match your measurements, and he then penalizes bows if they don't match up to advertised specs. I value and appreciate what he does, but it often seems like he puts his thumb on the scale ... or maybe he is just a little sloppy (but he does not seem like a sloppy minded fellow...).
In contrast, you actually use precise instruments and use them properly to take precise measurements, etc.
Since you are being so precise, I would ask that you consider showing the viewers a "tare" of your handheld bow scale because in the video's I've watched so far, the weights are consistently coming in about .2 lbs "heavy" vs advertised weight.
I don't trust hand held bow sales to be precise when measuring a dynamic hanging weight. I have a few scales and I KNOW they do not match each other. They might be "repeatable" but they are not super accurate.
Your reviews of the high end, long ATA bows have been principally focused on measurable analytics with only a few subjective comments and those comments are typically backed up with subsequent measurements with "real" instruments.
I hope that when you do your final wrap you add a longer discussion of your personal opinion on "shoot ability" or whatever you want to call it.
Sadly, it seems as if there have not been significant gains made in raw speed since I purchased my Maxxis in 2010. In your own reviews, the "hot" Matthews Lift is "only" running about 7-8 fps faster than the Alpha X and 9 fps faster than the RX8 Ultra using IBO arrow weights that are rarely used for hunting... and that supposed speed "advantage" is immediately cut by about 2.5 fps when the Matthew speed is normalized (reduced) to account for its exaggerated 30.25 inch draw. BTW, the engineers at Matthew know darn well what the actual draw length is. No doubt the "rounding error" to a "30.25" draw was deliberate in order to add a few "fake" fps. Take those normalized arrow speeds (adjusted for Matthews longer draw length) and then look at the differences at normal hunting arrow weights of around 500 grains +/- perhaps 50 grains and the difference between the "hot" 33" Lift and the extremely forgiving RX8 Ultra is likely only about 5-6 fps at most (again after adjusting for draw length).
Sure, I'll take all the speed I can get, but I won't trade much "shoot ability" for 5-7 fps.
Speed appears to no longer be the key competitive driver on bow competition. Shootability and practical hunting accuracy are likely more important today.
Appreciate the thoughtful and thorough comment and feedback!
One note about the scale I use: I am fairly optimistic that it is accurate because I use it to check poundage on bows, which is again verified when I put the bows on the dyno/drawboard - and the poundages always come in nearly identical (e.g. a bow that pulls 70.0 lbs on the hand scale will show 70.0 lbs when checking the draw force curve with a very accurate scale). But I do agree that it would be good to check weights multiple times - perhaps across 2 different scales!
I'm certainly going to add a bit of added subjective thoughts when I do the wrap up video summarizing the longer ATA bows. That said, I want to present this information to be as objective as possible so that the viewers can make the best decision for their equipment based on what they want/value in a bow.
Are you going to be able to do the Prime RVX series? Curious to see those thrown in since you're actually comparing string angle.
100%. I hope to get the RVX 34 in for testing ASAP - it's easily my most requested bow.
Hey there, do you have any leads to get Hoyt bow from 2008,2010,2013,2014? Please let me know
I think the best place to look might be eBay, Hoyt Facebook groups and the ArcheryTalk.com buy/sell forums. Good luck!
Wow.... they were way off Ata speed