Thank you Wendy for an interesting video. I’m always enthralled when it comes to social history and am interested in reading about Victorian life. Very informative.
2:06 this should have been a big, stout actress, like Hope Emerson... but this here is certainly a wonderful actress and one loves her Hannah immensely!
My fully dressed grandmother (1922) stood in her 1st night marital bedroom , staring straight ahead, arms akimbo, like an airplane. My grandfather tells the story wryly, "Beloved, what are you doing? "...to which she continued staring and replied waspishly, " Darling. I am waiting for SOMEONE ON THE STAFF !! to undress me !! What did you say Grandfather ? Cmere, Darlin'... oh, how we loved his telling that story..
I very much enjoyed this. Just found it and you and the gentleman were interestingly well done. Can any of these books be bought here in the states? I enjoy these types of stories, and find them interesting to hear true accounts of servants. Victorian England is so interesting.
The older books are very hard to find, even here in the UK. I'll have a check and let you know if I find any for sale but they are likely to be expensive.
I really wonder how notorious were the “Sons of households”. Men who were brought up to believe that they were entitled to everything and that they were a superior species to their servants. How did servant women avoid them?
My great grant uncle, (who was an amateur but excellent photographer) lived, with his wife and daughters, in a large manor (upstairs) and had an army of servants. We found a lot of photos of his servants, and what was intriguing was the number of male servants in positions which might have otherwise been female job. There was also a massive number of photos of two Butlers. Some photos were so insanely well staged it looked like there were made for some fashion magazine, and it was obvious that those Butlers had been hired for their looks. Then one day i found a little niche in my GG uncle's closet (I mean the room not the furniture) This was a very well hidden niche and this was only because i was planning on having it refurbished that using an echo machine i found this hollow space in the wall and inside of it were two large metal boxes one filled with letters and the other with photos, and the letters were clearly letters between the Butlers and my GG Uncle about their affairs and sexual encounters. While the photos were basically an expression or illustrations of those letters, ranging from romantic to pornography (and i do mean porn, not just naked Butlers on a chair in all their manhood, but my GG Uncle on his knees pleasing the Butlers and vice versa, or the Butlers pleasing each other or my GG Uncle . However by the read of those letters it was clear that this was a true love (or lust) triangle and that they did like each other a lot. Most photos were taken in this closet which i guess originates the expression "being in the closet", and they never came out of it. It was both shocking and embarrassing because you don't really want to find photos of your relatives in these compromising positions, but i mostly felt bad for him and his wife, as well as the Butlers of course. My GG Uncle died prematurely after being killed by a bear whom he ironically had rescued from one of those horrendous zoos of the time (he was a massive animal lover and vegan which was rare in those days). And i wonder if his death was a relief or a curse for his wife, who might have known what was going on under her roof. Had he grown older, i guess he would have disposed of those photos at some point so that nobody would have ever found them, because he obviously kept his secret until way beyond his death, and carried it to his grave. But the interesting almost eerie thing about it is that it was me, his great grand openly gay nephew who found those photos and letters. I have taken those photos and letters to my bank and placed them in a safe there, so nobody in my family will find out about it as i assume my GG uncle would have wished and i went to his grave with my partner and the graves of the Butlers (one of them married and had kids) and we had a glass of wine with them there and a chat to let them know that things have changed and that, had they lived in our day and age, their lives would have been quite different. We toasted also to my GG Uncle excellent taste in men, because those Butlers were even more handsome than Thomas from Downton. I now live in his house with my partner and our kids (and no servants) which gives a whole new meaning to his house now. I originally wanted to transform his closet into a kid's bedroom, but after seeing the photos and what took place there i decided to turn it into my home office instead. I imagine how many houses have those scandalous stories tied to them and how interesting it would be to uncover them and make a documentary about them.
most servants after the First World War wouldn't return to service. work outside The House paid better, gave better hours, less demanding. These were the men and women no one ever heard, may have seen once in awhile. I think they had very hard lives.
Most of them did indeed and it was the lack of freedom and privacy that drove many into alternative employment. Their diaries and memoirs make interesting and surprising reading though.
Their diaries and memoirs are really interesting too if you can get hold of them. Several were published. For example, William Tailor, a footman kept a diary for a year in 1837.
He was obviously quite a lad but also had some artistic skills which he used to make a bit of extra money. This book is available on Amazon and probably elsewhere but expensive!
Hannah Culwick's diaries have also been published. Town and Country by Charles Cooper; Cooper was a butler and lead a surprisingly comfortable life, travelling abroad, taking up hobbies such as fly fishing and photography!
Frederick Gorst in "Of Carriages and Kings" gives a vivid insight into the life of a footman in the vast household of Welbeck Abbey, where the servants were regarded as Royal servants and expected to carry out duties at Buckingham Palace as well as Welbeck.
There are quite a few different diaries and memoirs mentioned in the film so not quite sure which you mean. Most are hard to find and very expensive but If you want to just dip into quite a few diaries and memoirs I can recommend "Servants' Stories" edited by Michael Higgs which is a compilation taken from a lot of different servant diaries including some of those I've mentioned and is much more reasonably priced and available on Amazon. Full title: Servants' Stories: Life Below Stairs In Their Own Words, 1800-1950. Also look at my replies to Javier Bonilla below when I was logged in as Ashby Venture Theatre.
I'm currently writing a book, set in 1912, in an upper class home. You've given me some ideas. Thank you!
I came across this video after a recent obsession with Upstairs Downstairs. So glad I did, so informative and well made. Thank you!
Thank you for commenting. Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you Wendy for an interesting video. I’m always enthralled when it comes to social history and am interested in reading about Victorian life. Very informative.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it.
Great video, thanks for sharing what happened in England. We have a documentary on French service :)
Thank you, glad you enjoyed it.
wonderful! this was so interesting. thank you so much
Thank you for watching and commenting.
2:06 this should have been a big, stout actress, like Hope Emerson...
but this here is certainly a wonderful actress and one loves her Hannah immensely!
I found this very interesting. I would love to have a browse around your bookshelves and was reading the titles of the books on your desk upside down.
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it.
My fully dressed grandmother (1922) stood in her 1st night marital bedroom , staring straight ahead, arms akimbo, like an airplane. My grandfather tells the story wryly, "Beloved, what are you doing? "...to which she continued staring and replied waspishly, " Darling. I am waiting for SOMEONE ON THE STAFF !! to undress me !! What did you say Grandfather ? Cmere, Darlin'... oh, how we loved his telling that story..
How funny!
Fascinating…..thank you
Thank you for watching.
What is the little wooden box in a little square alcove in the pink walled room behind the gentleman’s right? Thanks!
I very much enjoyed this. Just found it and you and the gentleman were interestingly well done. Can any of these books be bought here in the states? I enjoy these types of stories, and find them interesting to hear true accounts of servants. Victorian England is so interesting.
The older books are very hard to find, even here in the UK. I'll have a check and let you know if I find any for sale but they are likely to be expensive.
Underrated
The story about Kate is an.old murder mystery most foul story appearing in many murder mystery magazines
I really wonder how notorious were the “Sons of households”. Men who were brought up to believe that they were entitled to everything and that they were a superior species to their servants. How did servant women avoid them?
Interesting point.
My great grant uncle, (who was an amateur but excellent photographer) lived, with his wife and daughters, in a large manor (upstairs) and had an army of servants. We found a lot of photos of his servants, and what was intriguing was the number of male servants in positions which might have otherwise been female job.
There was also a massive number of photos of two Butlers. Some photos were so insanely well staged it looked like there were made for some fashion magazine, and it was obvious that those Butlers had been hired for their looks.
Then one day i found a little niche in my GG uncle's closet (I mean the room not the furniture) This was a very well hidden niche and this was only because i was planning on having it refurbished that using an echo machine i found this hollow space in the wall and inside of it were two large metal boxes one filled with letters and the other with photos, and the letters were clearly letters between the Butlers and my GG Uncle about their affairs and sexual encounters. While the photos were basically an expression or illustrations of those letters, ranging from romantic to pornography (and i do mean porn, not just naked Butlers on a chair in all their manhood, but my GG Uncle on his knees pleasing the Butlers and vice versa, or the Butlers pleasing each other or my GG Uncle . However by the read of those letters it was clear that this was a true love (or lust) triangle and that they did like each other a lot. Most photos were taken in this closet which i guess originates the expression "being in the closet", and they never came out of it.
It was both shocking and embarrassing because you don't really want to find photos of your relatives in these compromising positions, but i mostly felt bad for him and his wife, as well as the Butlers of course.
My GG Uncle died prematurely after being killed by a bear whom he ironically had rescued from one of those horrendous zoos of the time (he was a massive animal lover and vegan which was rare in those days). And i wonder if his death was a relief or a curse for his wife, who might have known what was going on under her roof.
Had he grown older, i guess he would have disposed of those photos at some point so that nobody would have ever found them, because he obviously kept his secret until way beyond his death, and carried it to his grave.
But the interesting almost eerie thing about it is that it was me, his great grand openly gay nephew who found those photos and letters.
I have taken those photos and letters to my bank and placed them in a safe there, so nobody in my family will find out about it as i assume my GG uncle would have wished and i went to his grave with my partner and the graves of the Butlers (one of them married and had kids) and we had a glass of wine with them there and a chat to let them know that things have changed and that, had they lived in our day and age, their lives would have been quite different. We toasted also to my GG Uncle excellent taste in men, because those Butlers were even more handsome than Thomas from Downton.
I now live in his house with my partner and our kids (and no servants) which gives a whole new meaning to his house now.
I originally wanted to transform his closet into a kid's bedroom, but after seeing the photos and what took place there i decided to turn it into my home office instead.
I imagine how many houses have those scandalous stories tied to them and how interesting it would be to uncover them and make a documentary about them.
What an interesting story and what an amazing find. Thank you for sharing.
most servants after the First World War wouldn't return to service. work outside The House paid better, gave better hours, less demanding. These were the men and women no one ever heard, may have seen once in awhile. I think they had very hard lives.
Most of them did indeed and it was the lack of freedom and privacy that drove many into alternative employment. Their diaries and memoirs make interesting and surprising reading though.
If you want to know more, I have written a longer reply above including some recommended reading.
The other replies are from me, Wendy Freer. I just didn't notice I was signed in as Ashby Venture Theatre!
My great- grandmother worked as a domestic servant in a posh house and had 3 illegitimate children ( it is thought) by the son of her employer! 🤭
Thank you for commenting Anna. Sounds like your grandmother was an interesting woman.
@@BarkingFree yes! Very controversial for the time and I would have loved to have met her!
How interesting!
Thank you. The following is quite a long reply with some recommendations so I will have to break it up into two or three parts.
Their diaries and memoirs are really interesting too if you can get hold of them. Several were published. For example, William Tailor, a footman kept a diary for a year in 1837.
He was obviously quite a lad but also had some artistic skills which he used to make a bit of extra money. This book is available on Amazon and probably elsewhere but expensive!
Hannah Culwick's diaries have also been published. Town and Country by Charles Cooper; Cooper was a butler and lead a surprisingly comfortable life, travelling abroad, taking up hobbies such as fly fishing and photography!
Frederick Gorst in "Of Carriages and Kings" gives a vivid insight into the life of a footman in the vast household of Welbeck Abbey, where the servants were regarded as Royal servants and expected to carry out duties at Buckingham Palace as well as Welbeck.
Where can you get a copy of his memoirs?
There are quite a few different diaries and memoirs mentioned in the film so not quite sure which you mean. Most are hard to find and very expensive but If you want to just dip into quite a few diaries and memoirs I can recommend "Servants' Stories" edited by Michael Higgs which is a compilation taken from a lot of different servant diaries including some of those I've mentioned and is much more reasonably priced and available on Amazon. Full title: Servants' Stories: Life Below Stairs In Their Own Words, 1800-1950. Also look at my replies to Javier Bonilla below when I was logged in as Ashby Venture Theatre.