This is what I want from a balance patch, not just the changes but the justification behind the changes. This is something other games do, which I really enjoy and helps changes seem less random.
Thank you for the interview, here's hoping for some additional Egypt buffs in the future. Because without the potency of Meteor or Valley of the Kings they are going to be significantly weaker.
Thanks for the great interview and explanations! However I would have also liked to hear what they think of each Civs and what their overall balancing phylosophy is rather than just going over the patch notes line by line.
excellent patch.. hitting the nail in the spot.. centaurs and A+E, although I keep asking myself... now that Isis is nerffed maybe she is gonna need some unff... @Hagrit if I remember correctly Isis had some +% HP for migdol units in the Beta?? was that it? maybe she is gonna need that back... eggy army in general feels like is needing help. all migdol units are being counter by 1 unit type. For leto.. maybe adding some tech that wont affect the Automatons to make her more viable?? anyways excellent patch.
She had a bonus where units would keep getting a tiny percent of HP for every tech researched, but it would add up in the end. The Migdol units HP bonus is Ra's, and he still has it
Isis is getting buffs in the form of sobek :) so there isn't just one path she can go for. she seems to be doing very well in winrates so far (still early days)
Always nice to watch these insights, my thoughts on them: - implode was already very very good the previous patch, now it is looking a bit too ridiculous. It completely wipes out infantry units, and it doesn't discriminate damage against heroes. A Bad cast of it isn't the GP's fault, it is the player's. - If Rheia's gift removing favor cost for heroizing was unintended, i am assuming Freyr making Gatherers and Dwarves conversion into Berserk -50% cost, effetively Loki's Bonus, is also unintended. - Tartarian Gate can be cast into allies (and allies buildings) and they can not do anything about it. As the gate from where the creep spawns is considered an ally's building. They can deal with the creep as they are netrual aggressive spawns, but they can do nothing vs the gate itself. - Man O' War had low dps, but has chaining attack like Son of Osiris. Basically now it is a mini Son of Osiris in water. - Gullinbursti recast costing 300 favor is a bit too much. - Carcinos is a crab, I saw on the chinese trailer video that there were amphibians units, why can't it be as well?
implode: After seeing it in action after the buffs, it's starting to feel more on-par with stuff like lightning storm now, so i think it's reaching a good spot. It generally is better vs low hp units, larger HP units tend to survire. Freyr making gatherer/dwarf conversion cheaper is indeed an oversight, thats for pointing that one out :) Tartarian gate: There is many ways to grief an ally, this is not really that big of a concern. If the plan of someoen was to go fast mythic to grief an ally, that seems very sad :( Man O War: Yes Carcinos: The main issue with giving amphibious tags to the naval units, is it has implications on land maps where you suddenly now get 2 myth units for free, rather than 1. this is quite problematic, unless all 4 naval myth units of that age become amphibious, to balance that boost out.
08:55 wouldn't hurt to take 10 extra seconds to explain the entire confusion of cumulative vs. additive armor in aom, instead of going 'it's just -30% vulnerability' and expecting her to immediately interpret the term 'vulnerability' in the way you want that word to be interpreted.
@@peterblood8074 yes, but for booming fast builds it's a nerf. Time matters. Just isn't a clear cut nerf because it was buffed to hold meteor better. Was a good balance point in my perspective. What do tou think @peterblood8074?
I watched in hope to understand the cheiroballista change and I still don't get it. They are still affected by Kronos' bonus and by petrification so clearly they are still siege units, but now they are the only units in the game that is not affected by techs that are described as affecting its unit class. Unfortunately it wasn't adressed in the video. I also don't get why the fact they are affected by ranged soldier upgrades matters here, after all they had their own line upgrade in extended edition, so couldn't they just bring it back if it was the problem? Btw turmas ARE affected by cavalry upgrades, ie.poseidon's secret. I also don't get how they are OP now, like the only actual buff they got is ballistics, otherwise counting as an archer is just a liability that makes them weaker to cavalry and gave them a new weakness to slingers and the like (and if the answer is indeed ballistics then just restore their old tracking system and say it's so that they aren't the only siege weapon that benefits from ballistics ig?) I also thought Rheia making heroes cost no favour was a feature because she is supposed to be the god choice that helps with favour generation but now Hyperion and Theia also give techs that do that, so I thought it was a buff to help her keep up as she is already the weaker choice overall.
There's a difference between being affected by line upgrades, and unique upgrades. Cheiroballista was being affected by 2 different line upgrades, the ranged soldiers, as well as the siege upgrades. no other unit has access to that much baseline upgrades. Turma's don't get affected by both medium cavalry and medium archers, if they did, it would be bonkers :D Anything that buffs archers in general will also buff the cheiroballista, as well as other "siege" buffs, just not the siege "line upgrades".
@@hagr1t I'm kinda in the same confused camp as @theowlogram888, while I understand that it might not be intended, the cheriobalista wasn't OP judging by how little it seems to be used. I don't see much use by pros or nooblets in ranked, besides the occational spammer who thinks its fun to do so without regard to efficiency. Most shy away from it and rush to get arcus out instead for infantry counters late, even with these double set of upgrades. Anyway, if they got that out of the way maybe a buff is on the horizon? I can see the buffing being complicated if it gets more uppgrades than intended as it then could scale even better late game. But then they could have done something this patch to the base efficiency of it.
@@hagr1t altough I agree it may work against Norse, it still feels oppressive that you can shutdown all Migdol with Podromos or Oranos + Oceanus Katapelts. An alternative as mentioned is to buff a little the barracks line to at least have an option because as of now it feels you go either one or the other only (as barracks without the minor gods tech suck really bad)
Since you are talking with the developers, can you please ask them to do something about the myrmidons? They are so weak right now, they have around -30% health than a hoplite at same population while their dps is around the same as a hoplite at same population
@@AHaber007 2 Myrmidons (6 pop) output 12.8 DPS (6.4 x 2) 3 Hoplites (6 pop) output 22.5 DPS, which gets reduced to 11.25 vs. 50% hack armour. Against 40% hack armour, the Hoplites output 13.5 DPS, for example Hoplites also offer you more HP (345 vs. 240) & speed (4.8 as Zeus vs. 4.3)
@@AHaber007 exactly what the other person says actually. Hoplites hack dps (after 45%) armor reductionis exactly the same as myrmidons divine dps. That means 3 hoplites are doing exactly the same damage as 2 myrmidons, but hoplites have around 45% more health. Myrmidons are losing on equal population to all general infantry in the game. Maybe they beat spearmen, i am not even sure, lol
@@devangnivatkar2649Man go and compare upgraded units to eachother and not the base version and all of the sudden Myrmidons deal much more damage. Myrms are more effective vs toxots and buildings too plus with the upgrade that gives +1 multi vs myth units, they effectively deal 3-4x times the damage a hoplit would.
Kind of an odd interview, neither of y'all seem excited or interested to discuss things. Brief, direct questions and brief, direct answers. I suppose some explanation is better than none Great changes tho imo
Generally, the build speed bonus loki has is rather unimpactful in most games, but immensely impactful in deathmatch, to the point that loki was truely the single strongest god in that mode, so it felt a fairly safe nerf to make, considering Loki has been performing incredibly well in all brackets of play, often reaching 60% winrates.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
OFFICIAL PATCH NOTES VIDEO
This is what I want from a balance patch, not just the changes but the justification behind the changes. This is something other games do, which I really enjoy and helps changes seem less random.
Glad to hear it :)
Thank you for the interview, here's hoping for some additional Egypt buffs in the future. Because without the potency of Meteor or Valley of the Kings they are going to be significantly weaker.
Thanks for the great interview and explanations! However I would have also liked to hear what they think of each Civs and what their overall balancing phylosophy is rather than just going over the patch notes line by line.
love game devs who chat with the community
Thanks for this walkthrough of the patch notes, I hope the developers will join in again with comments on their decisions for future patches🙂
Im up for it :)
Thank you for another dev interview! I prefer this format with the visual slides 😃 Makes it easier to also follow what is being discussed
Thanks for the feedback :)
Thank you for the interview!
So interesting to see some of the reasoning why
This is great!! Thank you to both!
What a great video! I hope you're able to make a series out of it. It's great to hear the rationale from the devs.
excellent patch.. hitting the nail in the spot.. centaurs and A+E, although I keep asking myself... now that Isis is nerffed maybe she is gonna need some unff... @Hagrit if I remember correctly Isis had some +% HP for migdol units in the Beta?? was that it? maybe she is gonna need that back... eggy army in general feels like is needing help. all migdol units are being counter by 1 unit type.
For leto.. maybe adding some tech that wont affect the Automatons to make her more viable?? anyways excellent patch.
She had a bonus where units would keep getting a tiny percent of HP for every tech researched, but it would add up in the end. The Migdol units HP bonus is Ra's, and he still has it
Isis is getting buffs in the form of sobek :) so there isn't just one path she can go for. she seems to be doing very well in winrates so far (still early days)
They should have buffed egypt spearman, not mercenaries. Also mercenaries could train without pausing villager production.
Great video - I think overall so far it's a pretty good patch. At least from my perspective. The QOL updates are nice.
RIP Mummies, even more so
will they hotfix villager attack move not working properly?
Always nice to watch these insights, my thoughts on them:
- implode was already very very good the previous patch, now it is looking a bit too ridiculous. It completely wipes out infantry units, and it doesn't discriminate damage against heroes. A Bad cast of it isn't the GP's fault, it is the player's.
- If Rheia's gift removing favor cost for heroizing was unintended, i am assuming Freyr making Gatherers and Dwarves conversion into Berserk -50% cost, effetively Loki's Bonus, is also unintended.
- Tartarian Gate can be cast into allies (and allies buildings) and they can not do anything about it. As the gate from where the creep spawns is considered an ally's building. They can deal with the creep as they are netrual aggressive spawns, but they can do nothing vs the gate itself.
- Man O' War had low dps, but has chaining attack like Son of Osiris. Basically now it is a mini Son of Osiris in water.
- Gullinbursti recast costing 300 favor is a bit too much.
- Carcinos is a crab, I saw on the chinese trailer video that there were amphibians units, why can't it be as well?
implode: After seeing it in action after the buffs, it's starting to feel more on-par with stuff like lightning storm now, so i think it's reaching a good spot. It generally is better vs low hp units, larger HP units tend to survire.
Freyr making gatherer/dwarf conversion cheaper is indeed an oversight, thats for pointing that one out :)
Tartarian gate: There is many ways to grief an ally, this is not really that big of a concern. If the plan of someoen was to go fast mythic to grief an ally, that seems very sad :(
Man O War: Yes
Carcinos: The main issue with giving amphibious tags to the naval units, is it has implications on land maps where you suddenly now get 2 myth units for free, rather than 1. this is quite problematic, unless all 4 naval myth units of that age become amphibious, to balance that boost out.
08:55 wouldn't hurt to take 10 extra seconds to explain the entire confusion of cumulative vs. additive armor in aom, instead of going 'it's just -30% vulnerability' and expecting her to immediately interpret the term 'vulnerability' in the way you want that word to be interpreted.
Thor reaches 70% win rate in certain elo brackets
Devs: This is fine
Favor abuse in huntables and TC wood increase are Thor nerfs. Don't forget this.
@@30Salmaotc “nerf” wasn’t really a nerf. They just made them the same as very other tc. They have more hp than they did before
@@peterblood8074 yes, but for booming fast builds it's a nerf. Time matters. Just isn't a clear cut nerf because it was buffed to hold meteor better.
Was a good balance point in my perspective. What do tou think @peterblood8074?
@@30Salmao big nerf tc cost 30 wood more u fkng kidding us?
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I watched in hope to understand the cheiroballista change and I still don't get it. They are still affected by Kronos' bonus and by petrification so clearly they are still siege units, but now they are the only units in the game that is not affected by techs that are described as affecting its unit class. Unfortunately it wasn't adressed in the video. I also don't get why the fact they are affected by ranged soldier upgrades matters here, after all they had their own line upgrade in extended edition, so couldn't they just bring it back if it was the problem? Btw turmas ARE affected by cavalry upgrades, ie.poseidon's secret. I also don't get how they are OP now, like the only actual buff they got is ballistics, otherwise counting as an archer is just a liability that makes them weaker to cavalry and gave them a new weakness to slingers and the like (and if the answer is indeed ballistics then just restore their old tracking system and say it's so that they aren't the only siege weapon that benefits from ballistics ig?)
I also thought Rheia making heroes cost no favour was a feature because she is supposed to be the god choice that helps with favour generation but now Hyperion and Theia also give techs that do that, so I thought it was a buff to help her keep up as she is already the weaker choice overall.
There's a difference between being affected by line upgrades, and unique upgrades. Cheiroballista was being affected by 2 different line upgrades, the ranged soldiers, as well as the siege upgrades. no other unit has access to that much baseline upgrades. Turma's don't get affected by both medium cavalry and medium archers, if they did, it would be bonkers :D
Anything that buffs archers in general will also buff the cheiroballista, as well as other "siege" buffs, just not the siege "line upgrades".
@@hagr1t I'm kinda in the same confused camp as @theowlogram888, while I understand that it might not be intended, the cheriobalista wasn't OP judging by how little it seems to be used. I don't see much use by pros or nooblets in ranked, besides the occational spammer who thinks its fun to do so without regard to efficiency.
Most shy away from it and rush to get arcus out instead for infantry counters late, even with these double set of upgrades.
Anyway, if they got that out of the way maybe a buff is on the horizon?
I can see the buffing being complicated if it gets more uppgrades than intended as it then could scale even better late game. But then they could have done something this patch to the base efficiency of it.
"Were there complaints about Carcinos?"
... Have you seen it? That thing couldnt even take out two ships.
Egyptian player: uses mighdol units
Norse player: uses bragi hirdman
Egyptian player: what can man do against such reckless hate 😭
get Bone Bow Chariots and kite the hirdman ;) (or go down the electrum bullets + slings of the sun slinger route, its pretty good vs hirdman aswell)
@@hagr1t altough I agree it may work against Norse, it still feels oppressive that you can shutdown all Migdol with Podromos or Oranos + Oceanus Katapelts. An alternative as mentioned is to buff a little the barracks line to at least have an option because as of now it feels you go either one or the other only (as barracks without the minor gods tech suck really bad)
Devs nerf lokis build speed because “Loki needed a nerf” and implode remains a 1m cooldown spam fest
Since you are talking with the developers, can you please ask them to do something about the myrmidons? They are so weak right now, they have around -30% health than a hoplite at same population while their dps is around the same as a hoplite at same population
They deal true damage. So vs a Target with 50% hack they deal double damage
@@AHaber007 2 Myrmidons (6 pop) output 12.8 DPS (6.4 x 2)
3 Hoplites (6 pop) output 22.5 DPS, which gets reduced to 11.25 vs. 50% hack armour. Against 40% hack armour, the Hoplites output 13.5 DPS, for example
Hoplites also offer you more HP (345 vs. 240) & speed (4.8 as Zeus vs. 4.3)
@@AHaber007 exactly what the other person says actually. Hoplites hack dps (after 45%) armor reductionis exactly the same as myrmidons divine dps.
That means 3 hoplites are doing exactly the same damage as 2 myrmidons, but hoplites have around 45% more health.
Myrmidons are losing on equal population to all general infantry in the game. Maybe they beat spearmen, i am not even sure, lol
@@devangnivatkar2649Man go and compare upgraded units to eachother and not the base version and all of the sudden Myrmidons deal much more damage. Myrms are more effective vs toxots and buildings too plus with the upgrade that gives +1 multi vs myth units, they effectively deal 3-4x times the damage a hoplit would.
@@MrLakislazopoulosThey have much more utility than a hoplite. So myrms losing pop vs pop too them doesn’t matter. They did so in EE too.
Kind of an odd interview, neither of y'all seem excited or interested to discuss things. Brief, direct questions and brief, direct answers. I suppose some explanation is better than none
Great changes tho imo
Siege weapons do mainly crush damage, so what is hack armor going to do lol.
The hack armor was aimed at non-siege units taking out buildings a bit too quickly, siege should remain as effective as it is :)
@@hagr1tI see. It sounded a little as if siege weapons where too weak. My bad.
can you be my friend on AOM pls
-jasper
I'm also looking for a high elo sugar daddy
the loki change is too drastic.. that much of a reduction? dont listen to DM players who cry after they lose
Generally, the build speed bonus loki has is rather unimpactful in most games, but immensely impactful in deathmatch, to the point that loki was truely the single strongest god in that mode, so it felt a fairly safe nerf to make, considering Loki has been performing incredibly well in all brackets of play, often reaching 60% winrates.
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@@epicgamingfather cool user name