How Accurate is Monty Python's Anarcho-Syndicalist Peasant Scene?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Monty Python and the Holy Grail’s anarcho-syndicalist peasant scene is one of the funniest parts of the film.
In it, two peasants claim that they’re living in an autonomous collective, a small self-governed society that doesn’t answer to a higher power, such as a lord, a king or a government.
It seems like it’s a crazy idea and just part of the zany humour of the film.
But how accurate is this scene? Could a society like this have existed back in the middle ages, and how would it work?
It was a question recently posed on Reddit, and there were some truly fascinating answers.
Let’s look into it.
Thanks to Redditors Wifi-Knight, Mike Dash, J-Force and Airborne Walrus for their insight.
Here's the original question on reddit:
www.reddit.com...
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"You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
I wonder sometimes if King Charles ponders these words in relation to Ms Mordaunt's theatrical part in his enthronement ceremony? He DOES have a reputation for having an ironic wit!
IF I went round saying I was emperor because some moistened bint tossed a scimitar at me they would put me away
The thing is... Now he has a sword, and you don't. :P
The thing is, in a medieval culture, yes, getting a sword from some magical girl would be reason to wield supreme power. They would probably say it was Mary baptising a sword for when Jesus came back or something equally silly.
Plus, england lost the right to complain about a king. They can fight about it again though
@@RollingCalf No, it would have been religious propaganda manufactured post-facto to justify a king, but no one would believe that under the threat of violence was implicit. It is a completely stupid reason to bow to king.
At least one major theoretician of anarchism, Petr Kropotkin, used medieval cities and guilds as models of autonomous or semi-autonomous rule. Runaway serfs typically fled to cities, regarding them as free places. See his "Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution," published 1902.
Anarcho -syndicalism worked and thrived in Catalonia during the Spanish Civil war. It was hindered and suppressed by the Barcelona communists who were suspicious of anything that smacked of "deviationism".
@@ionidhunedoara1491 When Stalin's picking winners and losers, you're gonna have a bad revolution.
@@fluffskunk Stalin cut his losses in 1938 and started making nice to Hitler. He called back all his operatives from Spain and many "disappeared" in the gulag.
@@ionidhunedoara1491 According to George Orwell, the soviets played a massive role in its collapse, 'prevent revolution or you get no weapons' was what he claimed they told the leftists in Spain. As Chomsky says, by 1938, USSR was a country with a revolutionary past, not a revolutionary future.
@@cam1149 Did Chomsky admit that USSR compromised the revolution even as early as 1921 as a result of the Kronshtat incident while Trotsky Lenin and Stalin were still good buddies.
What an absolutely,, wonderfully absurdist conception! Just remembering the first time viewing it with hysterical laughter.
@@stuartnorman8713 You think autonomous egalitarian communities are absurd?
I'll admit my first hearing or two of this had me thinking they were a "narco-syndicalist commune." :D
All healthy 12-step groups function under this system.
Lordship in feudalism was always at swordpoint, and while it was the _responsibility_ of a lord to define law and adjudicate, they often couldn't be bothered if a region was too remote or shy of resources. When the community was small enough, few actual laws were necessary, and people worked as a commune. Even barter as a mechanism for party was confined to strangers passing through, as even the most ne'erdowell of the neighborhood were valued.
Dennis had modern language and mechanics than a early medieval village might have, but that was mostly descriptive, with particular mechanics (e.g. simple majority votes of each head of household) were developed ad hoc, when a more sophisticated measure of will was required.
This kind of society also probably existed in western Ireland and the Scottish Highlands. The population spoke Gaelic, which the Scottish and English courts rarely spoke, and the land was generally not suitable for supporting horses, therefore the rationale for "lordship" as traditionally defined didn't exist. The people here were regarded as savages and rarely, if ever, paid any taxes to a government.
I think it still stands that my all time favorite movie line is , “Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government”
In all honesty, I think it's my all time favourite movie line too!
@@SammYLightfooD Blasphemy! BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!
I concur
Behold our civilized western world....my god what an idiots we are....
Right after: "Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?" And "It is the rabbit!" And "Can't I have just a little peril?" And....oh hell, they're all golden!
"Come and see the violence inherent on the system. Help, help, I'm being repressed" might be the greatest line in movie history.
You saw him repressing me, didn't you?!
@@ricstormwolfThe ENTIRE SCENE is MOVIE GOLD!! EVERY line, like most in Holy Grail, is incredibly timely & quotable!
I literally fell under the table after seeing this.
i dont know
"That bastard shot my lunch!" was a pretty good line
Just because some watery tart threw you a sword....😅
Here what I see is often missed in this scene. The two peasants are muckrakers. They are gathering manure to sell as fertilizer. This is called muckraking.
However, in modern times muckraking has anew meaning. Journalists who dig up dirt on politicians, expose corruption, etc, are also called muckrakers.
So, the two peasants are literally muckrakers, in the older definition of the word.
However, they are also muckrakers in the modern definition of the word, in they are exposing the violence inherent in the system.
The collective was called the diggers.
"Yellow Beard ", adorable little girl on the street, " farthing for a lump of shit, Sir?"
@@nospoon4799 YES!
Manure, or just plain old lovely filth? Seeing this movie is still one of the most memorable experiences of my life.
Keen observation!
"What I object to is that you automatically treat me as an inferior."
Well, I am your king.
@@mystreteacher "Well I AM king"!
@@samr.england613 African release or European release?
@@mystreteacher …I don’t know that- **the hand of God tosses me into the bottomless pit**
@@CaptainSkiMask I mean, someone's gotta shift the shit. It's an important job, disease would be rampant without it. Much more important for the day-to-day than whatever the king is doing in that scene.
I still remember an occasion back in the eighties when I was able to ask the late Arthurian Historian Geoffrey Ashe what he thought was the most accurate Arthurian movie ever made? Without hesitation, he answered "Monty Python and the Holy Grail."
If only for the line about how we know that Arthur was the king because he was the only one who didn't have sh*t all over him.
Haha, true! I'm always trying to explain to people who don't care about why Holy Grail is so accurate. My favorite example is when Lancelot just starts stabbing wedding guests. He does that in the stories! I mean, not that exactly, but he habitually falls asleep in other people's pavilions and then kills them when the rightful owner comes home and complains. Like more than once. WtF?!? Who would do that?
A biblical scholar I know says a similar thing for the politics of the Holy Land in Life Of Brian.
@@nospam3327no wait what? Lancelot was a slasher?
On second thought, Camelot is a silly place...
If I went around saying I was Emperor just 'cause some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
Shut Up!
Got to watch out for them watery tarts
LOL, love the comments
Have you tried being born in a manger?
weirdly enough in the west somewhere in califorinia there was a guy that call himself emperor. known as Emperor Norton. the guy just told the local government that he was emperor and carry on his life as if he was one.
I think Dennis is quite sane and logical actually
Based Anarco-pythonism
That's good
Well im an AnSyn so I agree
Anarcho-syndicalism with pond characteristics
Then you're an anarchist. Welcome
Damn, every anarchist I know loves the scene as comedy gold.
Me THREE !
Yup
But no cookbook ?
Monty python , first few times puffin , lmao into coma land . Great memories!
@shawntailor5485 nah, the guy that wrote that wasn't even an anarchist, he was a grumpy trust fund college kid who was mad at the government. Also most if the explosives recipes and plans snf stuff don't work.
The king attacking Dennis is not crazy at all. Quite realistic of how governments react to those that don't follow the line.
when someone says: "give me liberty or give me death" the state is very happy to respond with the latter.
America is going through that now.
Smash the woke
Yes. Because people behave as if they are unaware of the consent derives from the people. They fight for it yet they quiver and succumb when the other side undermines them
And I'm sure if by some miracle they formed their republic, the newly made 'representatives' won't go chopping peoples heads like its a matter of k/d ratios
"Suddenly, strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, seems like an increasingly viable basis, as a form of government"
We need watery tarts
@@patriottothecore6215 And moist bints.
Where is this quote from?
@@pyropulseIXXI Online meme
At this point, it’d be just as well.
Came here for Monty Python trivia, learned about some history of my own region. 😮
I'm from Hamburg and my grandparents lived in Hennstedt and later in Sankt Michaelisdonn which are both in Dithmarschen. 😅
As someone with ancestors from East Frisia I have heard about the Frisian Freedom before. But I didn't know how widespread peasant republics were in the swampy north of the Holy Roman Empire. I think one can assume that migration between the coastal area of north west continental Europe to England never stopped completely and that people arriving there at least tried to live as freely as they were used to.
Seeing that most of the troupe were Cambridge educated why is this surprising? To say Terry Jone had studied up on Medieval history is a bit of an understatement, as he was one of the foremost experts on Chaucer and Her Royal Majesty's Expert on ancient documents.
I've never lived in medieval England, but I think Terry Jones got the visual appearance of that era 100% correct. He worked on all the Python team's movies such as The Jabberwocky and The Time Bandits.
Most of them were Cambridge educated? 3 is not most of 6. Jones and Palin went to Oxford.
@@igrim4777 Is this the right room for an argument?
Is it a five-minute argument or the full half hour?
@@igrim4777 3 of 6 is half which is most...
@@TheDude-no8huNo, it's half. Most is more than half.
That's splitting hairs really, but still.
Gotta love a scholarly dissection of the funniest scene in cinema.
Lol I was just looking for the scene. Now I'm watching it picked apart.😂
I’m with you on this.
And it was always why this scene was so funny.
Juxtaposition of simple comedy with some serious truths.
Royalty is just code for gangster family.
Based.
True as heck, 'noble lords' were just warlords.
@@zacharyb2723 the trick is to stay warlord long enough to become indespensable to the pope...
king arthur legend knights of round table gulden flees f⋇lat e⋇arth shambala mount zion north pole beneath polaris land of the midnight sun 4 rivers go in earth green meadows lakes mercurius is sun and moon there double function
we can´t go there anymore just like that no that was
And if you became King, would you declare your kingdom a democracy and abdicate? Or would you be the next gangster? I think we both know the answer.
"Wahr di Garr, de Bur kumt!"
It's interesting, that you brought up Dithmarschen, because they were indeed the prime example of it I thought about as well. about 20 years ago I held a presentation about in our history lessons, using Age of Empires II screenshots to illustrate everything. There is much more to this peasant republic than you could do in your short video. How they fought for they land against King Johann I. in the battle of Hemmingstedt in the year 1500. They warned the peasants to obey the king, but as they refused, the king attacked with a massive army, including the infamous "Black Guard" mercenary force. "Wahr di Bur, de Garr kumt!" - "Beware peasant, the guard is coming!"
But the military expedition failed miserably, and the black guard wasn't equipped to fight in the swamps, and of about 2000 guard fighters, 800 died and drowned within three hours in heavy armor.
It ended in chaos and slaughter and the army of the King crumbled to nothing as the survivors fled in panic. The leaders of the "Black Guard" were killed and the organization was dissolved.
The aristocratic cavalry forces tried to win the battle by them selves, but the farmers attacked the horses in the marshy lands and the noble knights died and drowned in large numbers as well, including many members of higher nobility of that region.
The king had to withdraw, and the peasants flipped their battle slogan around: "Wahr di Garr, de Bur kumt!" - "Beware guard, the peasant is coming!"
The Danish kingdom was so weakened, that as a consequence, the Swedish Kingdom could gain independence afterwards.
Yes, peasant republics where a thing in mediaval Europe, but Dithmarschen was not the only one. Iceland and the swiss Eidgenossenschaft come to mind, in Germany East-Frisia. All of these free peasants where subdued by territorial rulers sooner or later, though (the Swiss by local townspeople), except Dithmarschen's little known neighbour to the south. The Land Hadeln maintained it's selfadministration well into modern times, up to 1884!
"All the other kings said I was DAFT to build a castle in a swamp, but I built it all the same, just to show 'em!"
Runaway, runaway!!
Very interesting
@@MrFusselig *WOW!* That is fantastic.
6:25 Imagine being a history channel and mistaking the Holy Roman Empire for the Roman Empire
He keeps doing it. I feel like hes doing it on purpose to drive engagement and views
Not only that but he missed the whole point of that scene as being a mockery of modern anarcho socialist groups. Monty Python liked to make fun of that type of stuff.
Just to be pedantic, The Holy Roman Empire was the Roman Empire, according to their line of succession.
@@Jamie_Case No, it was not! It was an explicit reformation. The HRE was founded on Christmas Day 800AD when the Pope crowned Charlemagne. There was no direct and contiguous line from either the Western or Eastern Roman Empire to Charlemagne. They attempted to frame themselves as the inheritors of the Western RE's mandate from God but they never claimed direct and contiguous lineage.
@@Jamie_Case a teacher gave me a memorable tidbit: "The Holy Roman Empire wasn't holy, wasn't Roman and was not an Empire". The line was not only factual, but gives a flavor of how fragile it was, but how much the state was justified by propaganda. When the masses are illiterate, and even the "emperor" Charlemagne was illiterate, naming was an exercise of power. The royals certainly wanted people to think it derived from the earlier Roman Empire, but that was a flimsy fiction.😊
Wait that actually happened? A lord saying ''This shit is too much for me'' and abandoning his lands and titles to go live in a larger town as a commoner, or would he still be considered a landless noble?
Landless noble
Yes. He would have the problem that he couldn't do a lot of jobs as a noble.
уклоняющийся от своих обязанностей дворянин раньше лишался дворянства,
если дворянин не платил королю дань деньгами и воинами то он лишался земель и титула,
а без земель и титула человек мог быть безнаказанно убит и ограблен любым представителем закона.
@@unokarpa4405 а если просто без земли, он пака считается аристократ?
@@alexanderfridayeagle9146
когда начинался институт аристократии то звание аристократа не предполагало безземельность,
за заслуги перед королём давалась земля и титул, титул был неотъемлемой частью земли, граф таких-то земель, маркиз таких-то земель, принц таких-то земель.. титул был как как звание управляющего - управляющий такого-то отеля, управляющий такого-то завода, управляющий такого-то магазина..
когда аристократы теряли земли они шли на военную службу королю, где их либо убивали в походе/в бою, либо они получали новые завоёванные земли.
Those fearsome knights are actually saying "NEIT" which the Netherlanders would exclaim if their shrubberies were being trampled.
It is Neit? or Ní ? I think it's Ní (only because I speak Irish, and that would translate as 'The Knights Who Say No!") But hey, we are saying the same thing anyway :D
Depends if there are nice shrubberies and not too expensive.
Do they also chop down the largest tree in the forest, with.... A HERRING! In the Netherlands too?
As a Netherlander I exclaim "NIET", it's not "NEIT". Mayhap thou mistaketh the Netherlander for the German who exclaims "NEIN"!
They’re saying ni, as in the n word
A reminder everyone. 'Dennis the anarcho-syndicalist" is now Sir Michael Edward Palin. I guess he got tired of all that lovely filth
I think it was Abbie Hoffman who said ..." Do YOUR Thing until you get Rich, Then do Their Thing !
I bet he misses that lovely filth...
Satire
I read his diaries in prison. Cleese was right, they were bloody boring.
Naturally. 'Twas but a silly, passing fetish.
This video is sooooo important because Monty Python was making a historical drama.
Just like Netflix
@@ralfdunkel6266 or the History Channel
If only the important videos existed, we'd have a much smaller, much duller internet.
The sleights "Your mother was a hamster" and "Your father smells of Elderberries" could have been accurate too.
Apparently the insult that 'she breeds like a hamster' was common. Also peasants, who could not buy wine from grapes, used to make bramble and elderberry wines. Smelling like elderberries was indicative of the peasant trade.
Or of being a drunk.
again overthought
elderberries is a delicious thing to smell like
Except for the fact that hamsters are not a native British species and weren´t bred in the country (having been native to Syria) until 1939 - 100 years after they were first described when George Waterhouse came across them in Syria. So...."Your father was a hamster!" would have just baffled the person being insulted.
I'm pretty sure I've seen John Cleese asked about the elderberries thing. Apparently, elderberry was a common taste in cheap wines in the seventies in the UK.
Why wouldnt it be accurate? Or informed enough to be satire? Terry Jones and Michael Palin both had history degrees from Oxford.
Do Tell !!
@@jollyjoker888 Wikipedia would probably tell you everything you want to know.
Did kings also roam the lands with a squire who mimicked the sounds of horse hooves?
@@answerman9933 Everything is possible in the multiverse ...
@@answerman9933 - The coconut shells are satire ... BUT ... yes, especially Henry II were well known as travelers, running tours up and down the country-side keeping his barons in line ... the movie was set in the times the legend was written, political spin for the French Invaders ... "Of course Author was Occitanian, just like Richard the Lionheart" ...
Very interesting. But one thing: The name, Dithmarschen, of a region near Hamburg, is not pronounced with the "th" sound but with a simple "t". And to this day, the Dithmarschen people are renowned for their stubbornness and their independent spirit.
Yes, same rule as in "Beethoven."
You learn something everyday.... thank you.
Propably because all the independent blood wasent executed out of the genepool.
So are the Spanish. Their history is rich in anarchism.
And their Red Necks ?!
5:18 - "The peasants are revolting!"
"You said it! They stink on ice!" - Mel Brooks, "History of the World Part I"
Dennis is the sane one , the king is living in fantasy land ... I want a sword now .
How can it be a 'fantasy land' if that type of thing actually happened? Plenty of examples of leaders believing in divine right. History is full of it. It's still around. It's reality. That's what is being ridiculed.
@@David_Span How many of those leaders even believed in divine right and how many of them used general ignorance to their advantage?
@@aevum6667 (1) Belief of leaders in divine will/right, and (2) the power of religious belief to control the masses, are not mutually exclusive concepts.
2:11 well, i didn't vote for you.(love the scene)
One of my college professors played us this scene and we discussed it for the exact reasons mentioned in this video.
Reminds me of the autonomous villages in medieval Japan, despite living in the realm of a Shugo Daimyo, they are almost entirely self-governing with a number of headmen deciding everyday affairs, the lords were only in charge when there was a border dispute, such as villages competing for streams or farmlands, which the lord would be responsible for declaring war to resolve the dispute, and these autonomous villages would provide footmen and supplies in exchange.
That sounds just like early feudalism
Sounds like an AA business meeting. It actually works until a "King Arthur" type arrives. But, they usually then get drunk and the problem goes away until they return with the appropriate amount of humility.
@@farwynd2925I mean it's basically the medieval equivalent of small socialist communities today, integrating communal elements into a feudalist or capitalist world
0:24 Is that the aptly named Sir Not-Appearing-in-this-Film?!
How do you know he's a king?
He's the only one not covered in shit.
This is just a fancy excuse to go watch the movie again. Which I shall.
❤
This will give you a chance to count how many real horses were in the movie :)
I don't need an excuse. Just can't find a swallow
The intelligence of pythons humor is often overlooked !
Really? In fact the opposite is true.
"I mean, if I went 'round, saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!"
Dithmarsh lasted longer than America has existed so far. Imagine the culture of Dithmarsh, even as a smaller society, imagine if it simply grew bigger.
What these anarchists don't seem to understand is that this system is destined to collapse as centralization becomes easier, Dithmarshen was able to exist for so long because of its Marshy terrain, which was useful in keeping outsiders away
Not really. They were conquered by the nearby bishopric a few decades later
@@gabrielethier2046 "What these democratic republicans don't seem to understand is that this system is destined to collapse as centralization becomes easier, the USA was able to exist for so long because of its spread out population, which was useful in making more centralized authority impractical"
@@aevum6667 that comparison is ridiculous because they each have a proper functioning state to effectively defend their interest, but even if I granted you that, which I'm fine with doing considering the fact the US does in reality trend towards more centralized control, what of it?
There's nothing to imagine. Just look at what happened in northern Italy. The italian part of the HRE was de-facto independent from the imperial authority due to geographical distance, wich allowed cities like Milan and Bologna to become extremely prosperous, far prosperous than any other cities in the german parts of the empire, wich led emperor Barbarossa to directly impose his authority on them, these cities however banded together and crushed Barbarossa's army at Legnano, forcing him to officially recognise their autonomy. This is what made the italian Reanaissance possible.
I knew the commentary would be golden and it exceeded my expectations.
1:35 "Monty Python is set in AD 932, in England" - Proceeds to cut to B-roll of Mont-Saint-Michel, the Frenchiest castle ever.
Are you sure it isn't St Michael's Mount, in Cornwall?
Nah nah nah coz the police had to arrest that knight for killing the historian 🤗
True today, but wasn't it ruled by lords who owed their loyalty to the English king for quite a long time?
@@christopherwebber3804 Still, it's populated and built by French people. And I doubt any King Arthur stories ever retconned William the Bastard's conquest of England.
@@syntheretique385 Who is your lord?
Peasants working collectively free lands in Middle-Age France were called 'communeux' ou 'communards'. The term 'communism' is likely to come from them.
You also have the republics in northern Italy as an example. And they were very prosperous. They also beat emperor Barbarossa at the battle of Legnano and forced him to recognize their autonomy.
as an anarchist i absolutely adore this scene
Even though it's kind of making fun of you + yours?
@@SiiriCressey: I can't speak for OP, but most anarchists that I know have a sense of humour. It helps that the jokes are on point, not the usual ways people try to make fun of anarchists, but addressing the things that we actually do: the convoluted forms of governance to try to avoid letting any one person or group take power; debates over the primacy of class, race, etc as a form of oppression; whether to get on with the work or focus on talking and debating. And anyway, Dennis may be high-strung, but he's right.
@@tobybartels8426 Hmm, let me guess: Dennis = talk talk talk, woman (is she named? I don't remember) = get on with the work?
@@SiiriCressey : Yes, the woman only argues with Arthur when he's trying to interfere with their work, while Dennis goes on arguing even after Arthur starts leaving, provoking him into physically attacking him so that he can show everyone ‘the violence inherent in the system’. (I don't know how much of that was deliberate on the part of the Pythons, but that's how I see it. There's a more explicit satire of talk-talk-talk in _Life of Brian,_ although that's patterned more on Maoist parties than anarcho-syndicalist communes.)
@@SiiriCressey as an anarchist, it's an amazing scene. Dude is spitting straight fire while stacking literal dirt, it's absolutely amazing.
Dennis was just ahead of his time , and unafraid of articulating his principles .
I think given the poor communications and travel that existed centuries ago. It would have been far from impossible for isolated communities to live for decades as subjects of governments they have no idea even existed!
Right now in these modern times, with jet aircraft overhead and satellites having mapped basically every square meter of the Earth's surface, there exist a people called the "North Sentinelese", it's just that they don't know they are called that because they haven't had a conversation with the outside world in maybe tens of thousands of years. Very, VERY loosely speaking they are under the laws of the Indian government, but they don't know that, or that an Indian government exists, or a place called "India", either.
The whole world is the island they live on, and everything from outside is unknown, not wanted and pretty violently resisted.
They are very truly an Autonomous Collective!
If the government that claims you as a subject isn't taxing and enslaving you, are you really its subject?
As one of the most humorous scenes in the movie, it had me laughing out loud in my seat at the movie theatre. All of us in our group laughed throughout the whole movie, beginning with the opening credits. I saw The Holy Grail in high school at age 16.
"Bravely ran Sir Robin! ..."
So Dithmarschen was also the inspiration for swamp castle. All the other lords thought I was daft building a castle in a swamp and it sank into the swamp so I built another and it sank into the swamp so I built a third and it burned down then sank into the swamp, but the fourth, the fourth one stood!
I had forgotten that scene😂Thank you,kind stranger I've had an awful day!
@@hughgabin8068 I hope today is better my friend!
But to do that you need Huge "tracts of land".
And it still stands to this day! .....at least the parts that haven't sank into the swamp.
Bring on the revolution, eat the rich.
Shut up and join the Marxist camp.
@@AsadAli-jc5tg No more like joining The Murray Bookchin Camp. You missed the message.
sic semper tyrannis (im ancap)
I'm a vegetarian...and they wouldn't taste too good.
But then you will conquer them, and handfuls of your group will become rich and powerful, while keeping you in your place, again, then..........................................
One line about the “king” is undoubtably true. The comment “I didn’t vote for you” is true for any king
Though some kings are elected
not true. kings were often elected granted not by peasants but by other lords.
@@jebise1126so 99% of the population could still say I didn't vote for you
AD932? Oh Dear. Terry Jones would be turning in his grave. Try 532 -would be closer to the mark.
I have just a few problems with this video. It seems the maker confuses the Holy Roman Empire with the actual Roman Empire. He has added footage of ancient first century Romans and ancient first century Germanic tribes. This is not at all what people looked like in the 13th century. The maker would have done better by adding footage of proper Medieval reenactment groups.
You're right but maybe that was all the footage they could find
on a budget just like the movie
Dear Sir or Madam, Stop it! This is all quite silly! Yours truly, Col. McGillacuddy J. Wiskens Her Majesty's Royal Boutonnieres Ret. Decd.
Dude, you're incredibly underrated. Keep up the great work!
Here's a little Easter egg most will miss. Here's the line: "If I went around saying I was Emperor just 'cause some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!" Even as a teenager in the theatre back then I thought that was an odd but clever line. In Grail lore, out of place. And how does Denis even know what an emperor is, let alone know what a scimitar is? Back then emperors were from the exotic East. Big fighting blades were swords. Denis would know royalty as monarchs and kings. The movie gives a nod to origins of the myth of Arthur's magical sword. Even though Excalibur is not a scimitar, that is where the word comes from.
Years ago I heard a lecture on ancient Arab metallurgy where the lecturer made an astonishing observation. The Arabic word qalib (or calibre) means "a mold for casting." And as I recall, the hilts of scimitars were cast separately from the blade and then the near finished blade was inserted into the hilt mold while the metal was still liquid, thus fusing the two items together. (or the blade was already in the mold when poured...it was a long time ago). The important part of the process came when the mold was broken open and the whole sword revealed. And that revealing in the Persian was called "Exqalib" or in the French, ex-calibre - in English, Excalibur !!!
This is another part of the Arthurian legend. The important sword encased in stone that must be successfully removed.
Thus, Arthur's sword is special because it was of a technology that Europeans and the British could not duplicate. The blade, if it existed, would have been razor sharp ultra thin Damascus steel, and the hilt custom formed and perfectly attached. A sword so well balanced it could be wielded faster and more accurately in battle than any other, and so sharp it would cut armour like butter. To the backwater Brittons of the 900's, Excalibur was a technological marvel.
And today a Monty Python and the Holy Grail Easter egg.
What a clever video. It manages to be informative and funny at the same time. Well worth 10 minutes of my life. 👍
I have always understood this scene to be factual documentary. I find no error in the politics or the logic. 🏴
There is nothing unreal about anarcho-syndicalism. Both are real entities. One determined to overthrow the entire machinary of government and the other to work within it with the main weapon being the general strike. It comments on the struggle within the left wing in around 1900 between revolution and a more pragmatic social democratic way forward. Also the struggle between Lenin and Tolstoy. If Tolstoy had won then history may have been very different.
You meant Trotsky, Tolstoy was a russian realist writer and playwright.
Tolstoy was a pacifist christian anarchist. Also Trotsky and Lenin were both still authoritarian. The real divide came between the black army and the red army which were anarchists and Marxists respectively. The anarchists have held critical of the state as a means to implement socialism since it does not achieve a stateless classless society.
Yes apologies. Meant to say Trotsky.
Doesn't Anarcho-syndicalism require a syndicate (union)? Why would they need a union if there are no businesses or lords repressing the workers?
Just an anarchist commune really. It's a rather silly place.
@@리주민 In many forms of anarchism, businesses exist but are owned by the workers.
I want to know who told Dennis that Excalibur was a sword..?
Merlin, you berk.
The script ...
@@paulohagan3309 Dingo from Castle Anthrax.
He MIGHT have been able to guess from the word itself; Excalibur, or Ex Caliburn, means "from Caliburn" (as Ex Libris, from the library, automatically indicates "book") so he could tell somebody made it and Caliburn was a nickname for Blacksmiths in general, so Blacksmith - metal - guy in armour - weapon - he's obviously got a sword with him - Excalibur is a sword, QED.
Whatever else he was, Dennis wasn't stupid or unobservant!
Or am I overthinking this and stretching too much..?
The audience doesn't need to be told Excalibur is a sword. And it could have been even more famous in its own time.
Of course, that does make it even weirder that they haven't heard of the man who wields it.
This scene might be my favorite scene in not just any comedy movie but any movie period. Having read the People's History Of The United States by Howard Zinn it got me thinking that if America has so much lost history that most people have no idea about doesn't it stand to reason that there is a HUGE amount of lost world history too?
The ideas that brought about an end to feudalism can not possibly have come from the ruling class within feudalism. Yes I know about the Enlightenment era & Locke etc BUT I can't help but shake the feeling that even that has tons of lost history too. So yeah I absolutely believe that there were MANY different versions of Dennis not just in England but everywhere at many points in history.
History is written by the winners, those psychos on top. The more of a sociopath you are, the more authority you claim. In the case of monarchs, the inbreeding, isolation, and uncertainty may have contributed to the mental instability of more than a few.
“I am your king!”
“Well I didn’t vote for you.”
One of my favorite lines. 😂
You don't vote for kings!
Did the autonomous peasants have huge tracts of land?
"Bloody peasant!"
If Dennis is “nuts” then you’re part of the problem ;-)
Dennis is just angry , we should all be Dennis
WE IS ! ....I Mean Ahhhhh!
There are some mistakes in this video… for one, there wasn’t the typical „tax collector” in medieval times. Taxes were largely payed in the form of natural goods (at least before the 15th century) directly to the lord. Thus your statement suggesting that “they would be left alone without a lord as long as they paid their taxes” is illogical.
Also, those peasants that “had a disdain for the monarchy” largely had a disdain FOR THE INDIVIDUAL MONARCH, not the title or concept of a king in and of itself.
For another, Dithmarsch was in the Holy Roman Empire, not the Roman Empire which collapsed in the West in AD 476.
Pedantique?
Moi ?
@@ArtyFactual_Intelligence Qu'est-ce que?
935 was the time of Aethelstan. Anglo-Saxon kingship was regulated by the Witan, a proto parliament. Arthurian legend is later Norman aristocracy's propaganda, claiming origins for their feudalism in Pre Saxon Britain.
please note that my posts in all mediums are under constant vandalism by a state actor that is attempting to degrade the quality of my writing to make me appear less intelligent, under an apparent fear of my influence on the internet. somebody wants to make me look stupid and i can only deduce that it is because they are afraid of me. this post was vandalized to include pothead lingo like "sort of" and "the thing is" that is language that is not a part of my vocabulary (i don't do drugs.) and that i would never place in my actual posts because it is neither how i speak nor how i write. as of january, 2023, i have removed this language from this post. this a constant struggle as the vandalism is exceedingly widespread.
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the kind of government that you're describing is actually the indigenous form of government of the germanic peoples and was the normal governing structure during the period under what was in truth merely a facade of papal feudalism, often enforced by locals, but ultimately run from rome, as an extension of the never-really-gone-away empire. it existed across europe during this period. when the normans landed in italy, they baffled the local italians by insisting on governing themselves by erecting a legislature (called a thing), which was something that the decadent italians only vaguely remembered from their distant past. the existing system of english common law derives from the local systems of germanic democracy that the franco-normans (which were just papal romans of part norse ancestry) could never fully stamp out. the fact is that you could have thrown a dart at the map of northwestern europe and found an indigenous democratic governing body that was outside of the control of the feudal system; it's not just the case that democracy was possible during this era, it is the case that democracy was the indigenous form of government of the germanic peoples, and that it was under severe external threat by romans and christians, who were trying to simultaneously stamp out germanic culture and democracy and assert what is called "oriental despotism" in the form of catholic rule in it's place. that's the actual point of the skit. europeans have lost touch with their democratic and communist traditions, which go back to the mists of time.
Okay
You really should read up on history. The fact you speak of Italians in England and the pope controling everything are just really bad half truths.
@@walli6388 the system of feudalism that existed in europe during the dark ages placed all kings in fealty to the pope. that is why henry viii had to leave the church in order to get a divorce, because the pope was above all kings in the dark age feudal hierarchy. it was up to the pope to make that decision. kings even had to pay taxes to the roman church for the reason that the roman church took over the role that the roman empire had previously occupied, in the minimal period between charlemagne and henry viii. the pope was a military dictator and a literal emperor and he was frequently a viciously tyrannical one. the norman invasion of england occurred in 1066 and was carried out by a papal-aligned norse ruling elite to topple a half-pagan anglo-dane kingdom. elsewhere, i have referred to this as the second roman invasion of england, which is very correct.
@@walli6388 the term to google to learn about the feudal hierarchy in europe during the dark ages is "papal supremacy",
@@jessicasfakeaccount Yeah, it's called that by the pope. Just like that dictator in Zaire called himself the defeater of the British empire. Everyone can do that. Look up Investiturstreit or the Anglican split. There were enough wars fought between the emperor and the pope.
6:21 "Holy Roman Empire" isn't the ancient Romans from Italy.
Yes, the "Holy Roman Empire" was not the "Roman Empire". It probably wasn't particularly Holy or even much of an Empire either. Use of "Holy Roman Empire" would be a bit like modern Britain deciding to call itself "The Devine Indian Empire" on the basis of having conquered it a few centuries ago. I was puzzled by reference to Romans, with footage of marching Roman soldiers (presumably modern people re-enacting Roman soldiers rather than 2000 year old film footage).
@davidpeacock4632 It was, in fact, Holy as it got its legitimacy from the Pope, Roman, as it hold parts of Italy and Latin was the official language and an Empire as it was a litteral Emipre in the beginning and it also had an emporor.
My God! They're Soveriegn Citizens!
Freemen on the land!
@@robertcartwright4374Fremen in the desert. 😅
not quite, as these guys might actually have some legal standing. in the present day all land is accounted for and there is not free land to soveriegn on.
@@cocoadragon8554 I mean, if you live in Antarctica outside of active research stations or that one Chilean town, or just float about in international waters, you might get away with a form of sovereignty depending on what exactly you're doing with it
This guy thinks the Roman Empire was the Holy Roman Empire, and shows Roman legionaries. Doesn't fill you with confidence in his erudition. 👎👎
One thing that everyone misses is that Dennis knows what Excalibur is.
I *knew* those Monty Python films were in fact historically accurate documentaries....
...especially Life Of Brian.
Leave it tto Monty Python to get into a political rant in a movie about King Arthur.
Be quiet. I order you to be quiet.
Ordering? Who does he think he is.
Things never change in Britain.
@@nospoon4799 "Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!"
Mainstream media pushing ONLY the government's agenda on COVID,
social media posts challenging it being deleted,
persistant posters' accounts suspended.
Yes, it's still happening!
(from Life of Brian):
JUDITH: I do feel, Reg, that any Anti-Imperialist group like ours must reflect such a divergence of interests within its power-base.
REG: Agreed. Francis?
FRANCIS: Yeah. I think Judith's point of view is very valid, Reg, provided the Movement never forgets that it is the inalienable right of every man--
STAN: Or woman.
FRANCIS: Or woman... to rid himself--
STAN: Or herself.
FRANCIS: Or herself.
REG: Agreed.
FRANCIS: Thank you, brother.
STAN: Or sister.
FRANCIS: Or sister. Where was I?
REG: I think you'd finished.
FRANCIS: Oh. Right.
REG: Furthermore, it is the birthright of every man--
STAN: Or woman.
REG: Why don't you shut up about women, Stan. You're putting us off.
STAN: Women have a perfect right to play a part in our movement, Reg.
FRANCIS: Why are you always on about women, Stan?
STAN: I want to be one.
REG: What?
STAN: I want to be a woman. From now on, I want you all to call me 'Loretta'.
REG: What?!
LORETTA: It's my right as a man.
JUDITH: Well, why do you want to be Loretta, Stan?
LORETTA: I want to have babies.
REG: You want to have babies?!
LORETTA: It's every man's right to have babies if he wants them.
REG: But... you can't have babies.
LORETTA: Don't you oppress me.
REG: I'm not oppressing you, Stan. You haven't got a womb! Where's the foetus going to gestate?! You going to keep it in a box?!
LORETTA: crying
JUDITH: Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.
FRANCIS: Good idea, Judith. We shall fight the oppressors for your right to have babies, brother. Sister. Sorry.
REG: What's the point?
FRANCIS: What?
REG: What's the point of fighting for his right to have babies when he can't have babies?!
FRANCIS: It is symbolic of our struggle against oppression.
REG: Symbolic of his struggle against reality.
The US has a Oligarchy that asks for approval of names selected by the Wealthy to represent the needs of the Population.
If we declared ourselves independent of that system and the money that appears to make the government ask citizens to fight to maintain their wealth were questioned, would such a Government become a possibility?
Ni!
The word should be pronounced " PreSIDE-ent as in one who presides !!
20 years ago i used to use this clip when i taught American government in a high school. I briefly described communes, french syndicalists, socialism etc. every student had to write a short essay comparing communism, socialism, fascism and capitalism. doubt if most citizens and some presidential candidates could do so today.
I remember the thread on r/AskHistorians. Brilliant video!
This completely ignores that the scene was making fun of 1970s hippies and radical student types at the time.
I like that you refuse to call the Roman Empire "Holy".
How real is Monty Pythons history? Totally, I met the black knights decendant... couldn't stop that fella... nothing but a flesh wound he'd exclaim!! 😂
I don't want to spoil your efforts, but you are putting the 'Roman Empire' and the 'Holy Roman Empire of German Nations' together as if they were one, and putting footage of ancient roman military into history from the 13th century. There's some 700 years between them.
Popes of the era would have disagreed, why, because they said so. The 1st holy roman emp under charlemagne was started because the pope wouldn't recognize the empress of the eastern roman emp because she was a women so he named charlemagne as the 1st roman emperor in the west in roughly 300 yrs.
Did you perhaps mean the Holy Roman Empire? Because the borders Roman Empire in the middle ages was located pretty damn far from Denmark and Germany. And why are we showing first century Roman soldiers and gladiators while talking about the middle ages?
ever lobbed a scimitar? flung a falchion? hucked a bastard?
Pegged a poignard? Chucked a claymore?
Doubt I could even lift the claymore...
@@lisagulick4144 The Claymore and many other Greatsword type weapons are actually a lot lighter than they appear.
@@Kardia_of_Rhodes Yeah, but I'm a fun-sized person. A greatsword would probably be taller than I am!
(I'll just sling a saber.)
It's COMEDY/SATIRE...who cares if it's "accurate"??!!! 😂😂😂😂
6:26 XD I think you missed the holy part. It is called the Holy Roman empire
Yup absolutely a different thing. HRE wasn't holy, wasn't Roman and it wasn't an Empire!
Disappointed you didn't mention Spain in their 20th C. civil war, which pitted the US corporate-backed and Nazi-enforced invasion forces of General Franco vs the established, elected government of Spain, which was, according to Noam Chomsky, Anarcho-Syndicalist. Him and Monty Python are the only places I've come across the term, so I suspect a connection. And I always thought it ironic that the invading force in opposition to the established government are still referred to as the 'Nationalist' forces.
My ex-girlfriend's family was from Dithmarschen. She certainly was very argumentative, no doubt.
No she wasn't.
I was arguing in my spare time
I can't really take this serious after you showed footage of the Romans of old XD
Did you just confuse the Roman Empire with the Holy Roman Empire...?
Looks like Ditmarschen (sic) is where Swamp Castle is.
I've hoped for my entire adult life that I might find Castle Anthrax.
Despite the peril.
@@FredScuttle456 No; it’s too perilous.
@@nicksterj YES YES YES!
1:36 "set in 932 ad england" as they show mt st michel in france
If you live in the US, and you look around. You can't be blamed for wanting to give "strange women lying in ponds distributing swords" a shot.
Christ imagine going to this film for the first time with the narrator
I cackled!
The whole movie is a parody about the misconceptions that we modern people have about medieval society. It looks at how we portray medieval times in popular media, deconstruct them through lens of parody and makes fun of the result. So asking whether a scene is "accurate" in a movie that is deliberately being inaccurate for comedic effect is quite a weird question. Try asking the same qeustion about the scenes where someone is holding cat by it's tail and smashing it against a wall.
And I don't mean to say there is no point asking the question about self governing communes, Taborites for example had sort of commune self government during the Hussite wars. But wording it as "how accurate" implies that the movie is trying to be historically accurate, which is decidedly not the case.
Help! help! I'm being repressed!
Historically such communes existed for the sole fact that lords and barons lived miles away from peasantries and would go weeks and sometimes months without direct contact. There were severe peasant revolts in the middle ages that can be considered proto-communist revolutions and even influenced communist ideas of 18th and 19th century movements.
You messed up around 2/3rds into the video, you incorrectly called the HRE the roman empire, which never extended to the area of modern Dithmarschen