Your entire premise hinges on the assumption that simulation isn't gaijins goal. But actual development has, for the most part, constantly reinforced the simulation aspect of the game. More advanced and accurate damage models and armor interaction. A VERY good radar simulation. An IR seeker implementation that is basically unrivaled, even by DCS, a plethora of actually modeled aircraft, some of which have really really good flight models when compared to contemporary flight Sims. If gaijin didn't care about simulation then they wouldn't continue to develop the simulational aspects of the game. Yet they still continue to develop the game with strong simulation, because that's actually what they care about. You're also ignoring that flight Sim players tend to be absolute WHALES when it comes to spending money on their games. They spend hundreds or thousands on controllers alone. Sim players most certainly don't represent the majority of WT income, but it represents enough income that it matters. Besides, developing things for sim players doesn't take anything away for RB or arcade players. Development benefits the entire game. Removing sim would unnecessarily cause a PR shit-storm and absolutely negatively affect gaijin's bottom line. Your analysis of the issues is fair enough, but the conclusion of removing sim is just... It doesn't make sense from basically any analytical angle. More and better modes i can absolutely agree with. RB EC sounds great. Hell, arcade EC sounds great. I play sim with hostas and vr... But you know what I play more of? Arcade Battles. Sim players aren't segregated and separate from the rest of the game. Some are pretentious assholes sure, but so are some folks in any of the other game modes. Most sim players are RB or AB players as well.
Exactly, he doesnt understand that the whole game is a simulation, the difference between rb and sim, is that rb is basically playing with MASSIVE aim/flight assist. Ive spent hundres of $$$ on war thunder and ALL i play is sim
I think that their focus on sim is what makes war thunder alive and unique, it trickles down to us mortal realistic enjoyers how the vehicles are strongly characterized
@hav3nWT I would like air rb ec but a few things need to change. I don't want to be spotted from half way across the map like air rb. It would make my buccaneer completely useless. In sim I can fly low. Under 100m and hit targets behind enemy lines. Sometimes I get killed but in air rb its like.. oh look a buccaneer 11km away lets go for him...
@@hav3nWTin sim I am able to use my inner gremlin mode and sneak up behind blind PVE players that don’t check 6 and blow them out of the sky with them not knowing I was even there if there was no spotting in RB I would play it more but spotting dots in the sky is more fun for me then having a bing red name in the sky
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@@hyrulehero7834 you have to detect enemy aircraft using sensors present on your aircraft, in RB you can see the name tag, the problem here is that the spotting system is garbage and has been for the past 6 years, the target is 2km away from you yet it isnt spotted. In RB the matches are 1 plane only while in SB you can spawn multiple times which means that if you get killed by an undodgeable R27ER you can still play. There are a lot less players in an SB aswell so you cant really get outnumbered 5v1. In my opibion its a lot better, since Im on PC and cant afford a sim rig, I play with a controller and with keyboard combination and still perform well in any aircraft. The radar on the Su27 and Mig29 are so bad that sometimes they cant spot you and their RWR gets track pinged, thats all they see, then they get hit with an AIM7M if it didnt go 90° left the moment I fired it
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I'm not motivated by any sort of gain from sim, it's just that air RB is garbage, and air sim offers a skill based experience that still falls short of the ultra realistic nature of DCS. If I want to play DCS, it's because I want high fidelity realism, if I play war thunder sim it's because I want an enjoyable experience that is still has enough unrealistic factors that it caters to much less hardcore audience than DCS PvP does. I've been advocating for EC to return permanently to RB, but I'd still probably play sim purely because of the higher skill ceiling.
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I remember when SIM was meant to be the definitive way to play warthunder and everything else was just building up to it. Gaijin has really zoomer-ified the game in the past 5 years, but sim still has the most potential of any game mode IMO, it just needs work
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4:54 a lot of warthunder players are on console and unable to access said games so this is the closest and best thing we have, and there is a lot of enjoyment from playing with friends (which I’m guessing you don’t do) because it increases situational awareness and overall k/d with two or more people looking out for each other
So just because YOU can't have fun in SIM, no other player should have? And for YOU Sim game should only be played with hotas, this is such a bad take. Keep playing RB and stop complaining for a game mode that you don't play. Let us have fun, keep playing that brain rot RB mode and let the rest of us have fun.
@@smigoltime physics are a bit wack in sim but that's sorta besides the point. More or less sim is made for a more relaxing take on war thunder, I can die like 7 times in sim and still be happy. That can't really be said for rb. It's not to everyone's liking but if you do like sim, you really like it.
@@smigoltime I play war thunder sim for the more top tier jet stuff, yeah I know about and have played a little DCS but although its an amazing game its a little too hardcore for me, with sim I can play a load of jets from very early jets, to stuff like Su-27s f15s etc without having to learn the controls and buttons of a whole new plane each time, the bonus is doing a cas role in ground sim, im not sure where else you can do something like that against other players, not to mention helicoptors and playing realistic battles if i feel like it all in one place.
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I play sim for the pure enjoyment of experience, I love the challenge of identifying enemy planes and getting on their six, while trying in to not lose track of them. It gives a great dopamine rush when I get a kill especially an enemy fighter aircraft. Mainly due to the fact that I am bad at sim. I somehow usually lose more SL then I gain due to my skill issue and regain it in Air RB. I am still mid/early tech tree with my newest aircraft only being at 5.7, but I love the way that I can fly in any aircraft I want without learning the manual or buying a DLC. I don't think I have played enough to give a proper response. But I wanted to share my take. I liked your analysis and I hope Sim or an alternative will come to my attention. I don't play DCS as I don't have enough spare money to upgrade my SSD to install it and time to learn it, plus my friends don't play it. Anyway thanks for reading if you got this far, sorry for any grammatical errors :)
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Honestly, Air RB EC would be the ONLY reason for me to return to aircraft modes in this game. Every time RB EC was present I had tons of fun, had many 1 v 1s, historical scenarios etc. Current Air RB makes me want to Alt F4 after couple minutes.
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The only reason why I am not playing SIM more often is, because of the fact that I don't have a Joystick, pedals, etc. In its current state Air RB is a f'in mess. Gaijin has the tools to fix Air RB or make it more bearable, but they just won't, because money speaks louder than passion sadly.
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The entire idea that we should think about player masses and percentages and profits is the reason modern games are so awful. You're looking at this from the perspective of upper management, not from the perspective of a game developer. You also fail to account for the fact that different game modes have different goals. The only true overarching goal for the game is just to be fun. And many players (including me) enjoy sim, so it has accomplished that goal. Different players see different things in different game modes that you won't see, frankly.
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actual lobotomite behaviour to even suggest removing sim because the people who play it are not the 'primary customer' the mode can perfectly co-exist along side other modes, i do feel like sim needs a re-haul and there's a lot of potential to be had with it. But so can Air RB, it also needs a re-haul, just adding air RB EC is not enough, we need different modes implemented instead of the usual team deathmatch BS. Yes Air RB EC is a start, but its still going to be, for the most part, a team death match where there is just fighters clashing and dying and repeating. Modes where you could work with all vehicle types in 1 match and have player controlled helicopters, jets, tanks and sometimes ships, and have operation missions where you either defend or attack a position, would be much better as it would make the gameplay of war thunder less repetitive and boring, as every match feels uniform to the last, and the same will be for Air RB EC, it will just get boring real quick due to the lack of different roles you can play. But overall, the argument for removing sim is just ignorant to the people who enjoy it. Use your platform to give ideas on how to improve the game, instead of just voicing terrible takes just to get views.
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Air Simulator Battle EC is the best gamemode WT has to offer. The real question is, why WT makes it so unaccessible and fails so hard at promoting it. The fact that even on console a lot of players still think they need a flight stick and pedals in order to be able to play sim even though it's perfectly possible to play it with a controller is just absurd. They could have opened an entire new market out of it by selling the realistic cockpits or teaming up with the manufacturers of flightsticks, pedals and head tracking devices for PC.
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He’s not considering the fact that warthunder sim is the most realistic sim plane game you can get on console. I would love to play DCS instead but I’m on console. Warthunder is the best I have. Horrible take.
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You have some really good points. But I believe are many simulator battles players who also enjoy the other modes.+ War thunder is free game. You mentioned Il-2 and DCS..
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You don't play sim plain and simple. I know this because you think sim players only play sim for "Mission points, SL, RP". If you played sim you know you don't get rewards mission points are the only that isn't capped. This whole video is you telling us that sim should disappear because you don't play it nor enjoy playing it. "We should get rid of Jews because I don't like them" same energy.
Well that escalated quickly. I don't think I'm recommending g*noc1de but I could have missed it in the video, I dunno - I'll have to rewatch it and check my script :)
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What they need to do is take away the rewards for attacking runways, greatly reduce the rewards for bombing and increase the award for playing pvp. The whole problem with sim is that it has been ruined by people botting/unaliving themselves attacking runways and just ground pounding (the way you are in this video. You are the problem) and then leaving as soon as players try and pvp. Anyways you have a bad take and im glad gajjin dosent care what you have to say.
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I been playing SIM for the past 5 years and let me just say, i haven't gotten back to any other mode ever since. Arcade and RB is just pathetic and too easy, but thats just me.
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“Sim isn’t fun” -Signed, a Zomber DCS doesn’t let you take off with the I key no warmup/ bs. And I see 5-14 player teams of F16Cs chomping at the bit to fight (that I do fight and beat with mouse and keyboard) Frankly, I cannot accept your opinions based on the background footage and commentary. If sim is a dead mode as you say, why kill it? It isn’t costing any resources If sim isn’t a dead mode then there isn’t an issue to start lol
Bro almost noone who really like SIM plays it for sl rp and mission points. Its economy has already been destroyed by people who came there to get points. Those who type LETS PLAY PVE every single time they join the session. And those who are actually bad at SIM so theyre only compintent enough to fly to Base, click and crash. SIM is a gamemode that has a lot of potential. And some people choose it over RB because RB is repetative missile spam skill-equalised furbal and it does not matter if youre good or bad at the game. If u can spam flares on your pressious gripen and launch an aim9m and never climb above 100m from the ground YOURE FINE. I play SIM because you have to use avionics to find enemy. You have to know how to use it. You have full controls of your plane. Cockpit visibility matters a lot (I can come from behind and below and the guy won't see me for example). HUD only matters in SIM. It is another type of pleasure. Sure, the RB would be better if it was EC. But killing SIM isn't nescessary to rework RB. Lets KILL RB INSTEAD. AND FIX BOTH SIM AND RB.
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I used to play SIM and left for DCS, more than a year ago. I watched your video to see why SIM is to blame for WT being sh*t... Turns out the video is about something else and it has a valid point, but I would like to point out something key - SIM was killed years ago and SIM as a concept abandoned for the game as a whole. So whet the GUI buttons get removed as you ask, the game will remain shit and RB players will never be happy.
4:42 I’m a console player, I cannot afford to buy even a decent PC, on console the closest thing I can get to a flight sim like DCS or IL2 is war thunder sim and if it were removed a lot of console players like me who enjoy sim would have no alternatives to play
You can not change my fucking mind. Sim is fun but have your hates on it but DCS is basically spend 60 dollars on a map or a group of aircraft. And war-thunder is free. Find a way to be strategic in the game. If you can’t aim a lot be a bomber or cas.
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@hav3nWT jokes aside I'm sure it's going to get way better one day. You're absolutely right with your analysis but if there's more than one if me which I'm pretty sure there is your idea of killing the mode is absolutely crazy. They can combine ground sim an air but your ideas wouldn't slide I don't think. Sorry dude. I'm still subscribed tho no hard feelings here keep up the videos..
@@2bparistol8 all good dude. I just want the game to be better all the time. Gaijin does a better job that most people give them credit (which is why we're still all here talking about it) so hopefully they have some plans to improve the mode. I want to like it!
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You're a fool if you think SIM players play SIM for the EC aspect, EC is good and SIM is good, I just don't get why you can't wrap your head around these being separate things and people enjoying SIM because you can't ( I'm assuming that's because you're a metagamer 'going for mission points' and don't care about the actual gameplay and flight elements, which is where SIM players find their enjoyment) Anyways, plenty of the problems you point at are real and they could definitely be fixed/improved upon, but you're not the person that's going to fx it and thank god for that, if SIM was removed from war thunder, SIM players would go with it and play something else, and won't jump in RB EC for you to play with
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the problem with cas is that there is no way for a tank to defend itself, an infantry man with a panzerfaust can be machinegunned, you have a viable counter with them. for air you need a dedicated spaag, and a lot of players just want to enjoy their tanks without the worry of revenge bombing or just cas in genneral to add to this, i play sim for the sole purpose of enjoyment. its realistic and a good step up from those who dont find enough out of rb. if i sim wasnt a thing i would never have even gotten a hotas. it uses the same core aspect of what you learned from rb and expands on it. the teamwork in sim is emaculate, its the only gamemode where i am activly enticed to give it my all to win. i regularly win games where i wouldnt have won if i gave up. dcs and il2 are maybe just as good but its a completly new game u need to learn and buy. sim has that sweetspot of low barrier of entry and large skill cap. i just pop my stick on my desk and dont even need to switch to a different game.
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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For reference I have about 8000 hours in the game with that time split mainly between just under 28,000 RB matches and 1400 sim matches with 3000 ish arcade matches thrown in and I am 12.0+ not including premiums in every tree except italy and germany which I stopped at 9.7 and 9.3 respectively. So for me sim, which I play exclusively for the purpose of pvp combat, is objectively more fun than air rb even though I’ve played that far more. And flying in cockpit view with sim control in RB puts you at such an awareness disadvantage there is no point. I have DCS and a few planes there but I play warthunder sim more; it’s way quicker easier to get into a game, I like that I can unlock new vehicles (and so many more at that) by playing instead of just paying, speaking of paying the requirements to run the 2 games is separated by a decade my 2080 struggles to push more than 40-60 fps on med-low settings on dcs in 1440p but doesn’t flinch from 144 in warthunder on max, I like how in warthunder when I get into a new plane the only thing I have to learn is how it flies and the weapon systems my controls stay the same. Warthunder has its shortcomings as a sim (the amount of ‘people’ who just bomb for one) but for anyone who wants a lot of variety or doesn’t want to go full hardcore all the time it is pretty much the only option. As a final point there is one compromise which I would be willing to accept, effectively allow RB controls in an EC mode which has no markers with 3rd person being the only part here I’m not sure about. This way people who want the EC experience can have it without having to learn sim controls and sim players also are not completely abandoned.
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Your reasoning and conclusion for the complaints against CAS in GRB is spot on, IMO. I’d like to see EC come back too, I’ve never experienced it. But I think it might be a stretch to assume dumping Sim would end in a positive for RB or AB. About Sim players not playing WT as a fun game.. What percentage of RB players do you estimate play WT as a fun game? WT seems to focus on progression and running a hamster wheel, like many MMO’s. The player base treats this game like a job, which is a cause of problems like BR compression due an ADHD-like queue intolerance. I dig your videos - especially the gameplay commentary variety. It’d be great if there was support for a creator like yourself to cultivate a sense of playing the game for fun, for great matches and strategies for trying to win the match. I’d support that.
95% of my videos are going to be gameplay - I promise this won't be a rant channel. :) - I play for fun and I like sharing that. This topic has just been on the tip of my tongue and Air RB (which I love) had been feeling repetitive lately - so I really want Air RB EC. Sim just seems like it's suffering. We should put it out of it's misery or actually fix it - and I don't see them fixing it.
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Holy shit what a hilariously bad take... one that you dont even sound convinced of yourself. Your entire premise is bassed off assumption and personal perspective. "Go play DCS" brother most do, and yet sim in WT still has people coming back. What you fail to mention is how WT sim bridges the gap between insanely in depth and intense simulator and an arcade experience. It maintains the flight models and simulator feel with simplifying the control schemes. Unlike DCS i dont have to learn a multi buttom, visually interactive system to select, lock, arm, and launch an AGM. I can switch between multiple FREE planes in a match and the controls all apply. This is what sets WT sim miles apart from games like DCS. Secondly you assume sim players have all these glaring issues with sim, and we share your viewpoint. You assume we would be better off elsewhere, and we are just lying to ourselves about actually enjoying the game mode. Yet you see most Sim players are either completely finished with thier primary air tree, or branch, and just play sim for the pure enjoyment not for the sense of grinding. To this point, the SL cost of sim is immense, with most people going negative in SL even after a decent match going positive. To just assume whats best for an entire player base and saying "just go play another game" Is so idiotic. The fact that there is zero follow up with this incredibly clickbait, nonsensical video months later tells me you just posted it without serious intentions to discuss. Only to piss people off and cause a stir for the sake of views. If you ACTUALLY want to discuss these points youve made here let me know. Id happily discuss them in an interview style video you can post.
I replied to like the first 100 comments. Since then I haven't. Message me on discord about the interview style. I'll ask some questions and make a follow up video. @hav3nwt
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my only issue with sim is how having air superiority means nothing, bases are almost impossible to defend against a flock of phantom bots. you could have up to 40 player kills and still lose over some timmy who learned to press 3 buttons on repeat for hours
I have to agree with this. The economy of sim needs a rework. Especially in the top tier aspect of sim. yes its based off of activity and battle tasks done but at the same time getting up in high tier where you can be locked from across the map just makes it even harder to achieve those tasks without encountering a dogfight or two. This issue means that for every pvp encounter you have it costs you 14.5k sl to fly out the plane and you only get 3-4k sl per air kill. So if you lose the dogfight you are already in the red.
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I have an idea, bring EC in realistic along side normal air realistic while completely changing sim to bring something new that not many games have, a dynamic campaign lasting very long with changing objectives ecc, something similar to enigma's server on DCS but better
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If flown a few thousand hours in WT sim. WT sim is like playing my favourite movie. It's is more game centric than DCS or Il2 and offers a unique experience not found anywhere. This game centricness ensures you'll always get into a fight per every tank of gas. The problem was that the hardcore sim pilots had the planes that they liked and flew them all the time and weren't spending any real money with Gaijin. To fix this, Gaijin turned the mode into a grind fest, which attracts players not interested in the nuances of flying WT sim. It's a chore for those pilots. I fly Il2 and DCS as well, but WT sim scratches an itch those other two can't reach.
I guess you're correct? nowadays i only play Air SB because i've been watching DCS content for a long time, as a f2p player, it took a lot of money in order to setup DCS "correctly" so what i'm stuck with is WT Air SB, at first i'm kind of intimidated by the mouse joystick, but i thought to myself that this is what i have, so this is what i have to learn and be good at, surprisingly, i enjoyed it! i started play Air SB once i got my Mirage 2K C-S4 from the last event, since Air RB top tier will be hell for grinding modules, i decided to do Air SB for grinding mods, from there i learned my way from 0 to fully spaded my Mirage and be decently good at it Then with the Jaguar IS event, i switch to grind my main Air tree which is US that so far i've been grinding in Air RB. I start from rank VI (F-104A), and now, with the Jaguar IS event, i'm already at rank VII and currently unlocking mods for my F-5E! so in the span of almost 2 weeks, i've grinded 6 planes (5 Rank VI, 2 Rank VII) in Air SB alone, which imo, really effective and fastest way to grind without premium account/vehicles All in all, imo, the reason why i enjoy air SB is: 1. Closer to what i originally wanted (DCS) 2. Much slower paced compared to top tier Air RB so you can relax while playing 3. Combat are more engaging & rewarding due to limitations of this mode (cockpit view only, full real control, no marking) 4. You can spawn multiple times, so your SL & RP Boosters will be guaranteed to be useful Here's what i propose for the new mode that blends Air RB & Air SB: From Air RB: 1. Keep the mouse & keyboard controls 2. Keep the weapon UI as is (Bomb "Reticle", Missile "Rings", etc) From Air SB: 1. Keep the EC Match format 2. Keep the no marking aspect for enemies, for friendlies... idk if we should keep the mark or remove it, i guess that's up to you to decide 3. Lock the player view to cockpit view, this is imo, what separate the current point and click adventure of Air RB, and proper dogfight of Air SB, the fact that you can lead your target in 3rd person view is practically impossible to do in 1st person because it'll be blocked by your own cockpit, this way, the fight will last longer and be more exciting & interesting
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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I don't necessarily agree with killing off sim, but I do agree with your point that Gaijin are a little too fixated on queue times. They absolutely shake in their boots whenever an idea that might affect queue times is brought up. *cough cough BR DECOMPRESSION* Anecdotally, I don't think a 3-5 minute queue time has ever dissuaded me from playing. Now a ground sim wait time of 15+ minutes has, but that is an extreme example.
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air rb ec isnt a bad idea. I dont like how gaijan entirely has it right now. I think we all agree on that. Gaijan definitely will have the means to put some overtime into the issue with all the tigershark and new premium sales. Plus, a better game mode means more people willing to pay more in the future. However, none of that requires that sim needs to be deleted.
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Air and Ground RB are the most popular modes, theyre also the least enjoyable where the playerbase complains the most and is the unhappiest. The sim community is the happiest in game we dont have complaints like 16v16 and missile spam and all this other shenanigans you guys have to deal with in the hellscape that is air rb
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I loved sim air mode 11-10 years ago. It was called FRB back then and there was no ground or ships back then. It was coolest mode in game. But I kinda didnt liked what they made with that mode after that.
So you want to remove sim battles because you don't like them xD You literally sound like you've tried to play sim battles for more RP (which it doesn't grant, RB is more RP/hour - sim battles are capped) but you're not particularly good at this so you resolved to PvE but other players that actually play the gamemode were shooting you down because sim battles are ultimately PvP gamemode. And it sounds like it hurts your butt to the point that you want to take revenge upon them by facing them with cheat codes (you with RB arcade mechanics vs. them with sim mechanics) It's another instance of warthunder players turning against each other as if research points were a limited resource and other players are taking it away from them. Where in reality, it's Gajin who is deliberately making RP income low. Sim battles is not what's withholding Gajin from introducing EC to RB, Gajin is. Stop the stockholm syndrome, don't make excuses for Gajin and try to solve their problems for them. If you do that, you may have a problem with addiction. Yes, sim battles are best played with HOTAS and VR, but no we're not taking your RP nor forcing you to play it and removing sim mode won't add more research points to your bank account. No, Warthunder sim players won't be "better off" playing DCS/IL-2 simply because Warthunder sim mode offers a different niche - it offers casual sim experience w/ multi-era vehicles. Yes, sim mode issues are low priority and thus Gajin treats them like that. And that's why sim players are complaining because they don't get many updates. But they play the game and they pay for premium account and vehicles so Gajin benefits from them. Therefore there's no financial incentive and thus no added benefit of removing the gamemode because you'd be cutting away some of your customers that you don't need to pay extra to sustain.
Playing sim has helped me grind fast. I play 6.0-7.0 air mainly due to event. Tbh I don’t want sim deleted but a crack down on player bots. Sure, I could play fighters; but for building score to rack up RP, bombers and attackers are the way to go.
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You really hit the nail on the head at 6:55. Sim EC isn't dead because it has sim controls, its dead because the EC mode sucks. Its incrediblt naive to assume that the same implementation with a different control scheme wouldn't also result in the same problems.
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I primarily play sim but also play arcade with my friends to laugh my ass off sometimes. I'd delete and forget the game if sim battles got removed. Edit: sim allows you to use the aircraft as often as you want, which gives you the opportunity to feel like a pilot of that specific aircraft and makes you enjoy every flight with it instead of dying after 5 minutes and having to switch to a piece of metal you only use to make it through the mission so you (hopefully) get the points with no enjoyment. Be honest. You start every match just to get to fly that one favorite aircraft and when it's gone it's not fun anymore.
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popular because its EASY!!! ...and BORING!!! I want challenging with sense of satisfaction, like in real life. Want easy go play arcade fps game. This should be a flying game not mouse-pointing shooter.
Nothing beats being locked in a cocpit, sounds of engines all around and fighting for your life. Wrestling controls to get behind a bomber and systematicaly targeting each of its engines to watch it tumble out of the sky. Compared to RB, the point and click adventure game taking place in a cesspool of handholding combat. Sim has the risk - reward that RB doesnt. You need to actualy learn how each aircraft performs. Weapon employment taking exceptionaly more skill results in ACTUAL dogfights. You just cant get that in RB. The stories I have from playing sim could fill the bible yet I dont think I have a single memorable moment from RB. You tend to remember and enjoy the harder to acheive something is. I play DCS too but ironicaly it feels more empty and abandoned that SIM EC, its a cold enviroment that takes far too much time + effort to get anything out of. EC can be enjoyed solo unlike the slower DCS. Also, fix the AA (Real sim players know what I mean) - Its the only thing that stops me from booting the game up right now.
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For me, this is a bad take. I got a HOTAS for Christmas and bought myself a VR headset and man flying around in SIM is the most enjoyable part of the whole game. The game mode is miserable without some sort of head tracking and joystick, but once you get those it really is phenomenal. Getting a gun kill is so rewarding because of the difficulty. The game feels so much more intense and is way more rewarding than the TikTokified AirRB that lasts 2-10 minutes.
Picking up HOTAS/VR is like the final progression I see in my future. It must be said tho - that GroundRB/AirRB are more popular than SIM because of their accessibility.
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The TL:DW is that War Thunder should probably kill sim battles as they most likely wouldn’t bother fixing it since it’s main audience is obviously not making WT bookoo bucks and probably won’t after fixing it. I obviously would rather have it stay, it provides a free to play near sim experience without going broke over dcs modules. I do think that they show interest in making a sim experience as they are developing a vr game called Aces of Thunder which is supposed to be a vr flight sim experience (though the game seems to be a psvr 2 exclusive which pisses me off as I do not feel like spending 1000 dollars on a console and another vr headset)
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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As a console user who plays sim exclusively, it’s the only good “simulator” that is accessible to console players. If I was more financially set DCS and other pc platforms do make sense. As it stands warthunder is the only place I can affordably play HOTAS simulator. This goes for many others. I agree there should be more useful modes for attackers etc… but there is still a large player base on sim.
I left warthunder for IL-2 and DCS. I will say this is fairly accurate. I left because sim isnt that fun anymore. I left it because of Zombie bombers with their buddies that would land outside of airfields and go afk for their bot buddies to collect points in bombers. 2ndly by eliminating sim internal cockpit modeling needs are mosly eliminated so that is one place where assets dont have to be developed. 3rdly please make Naval or Air Ec a thing for realistic battles. It would make BVR, Plane Identification and various plane types and objectives relevant. Currently WT matches are too small other than for dogfight TDM. Objective based combat would make each plane valuable for its strengths not just ultimate A2A capability.
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I was initially a bit annoyed by this idea, but the more I listened, I became more annoyed about the fact of how much sense this makes... However, as @enigma points out, WT sim is one of the few places you get to enjoy a wide variety of plane eras, and (if you're using hotas), once you have a good setup, it transfers to all planes - DCS is more finicky, and other things like falcon BMS are very focused on one plane. So I agree with parts of what you're saying, but would be very sad to see sim go...
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Forcing RB players to play EC would be horrible. Sure it would fix the bomber problem (I'm not sure Gaijin really wants to fix it at all) but EC matches are extremely long and RB players already complain about long matches when they incidentally have to chase that one guy with a bomber. I honestly don't know how to solve the bomber problem in RB without pissing off someone. Killing SIM would piss off a niche but whale playerbase who spends quite a bit on the game + saying your game is a sim makes it competitive against other sims. Maybe Gaijin could introduce RB EC separately since rolling the dice and randomly getting a 2 hour match of EC might put off RB players who just want to jump in with their buddies for an hour and finish their matches.
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With VR and hotass sim rocks but is neglec5ed badly. rb sucks and is boring, eliminating sim will eliminate warthunders future potential too as vr ramps up. Sounds like you are as bored with RB as the rest of us but you want easy mode as sim is too hard for you so sim players should go play dcs .. lol
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I dont like how sim is implied to be the problem. Killing off sim wont magically awaken gaijan to fix other gamemodes. You can say the same thing about naval in that case. The truth is that gaijan only ever acts on things when they are being review bombed or else they themselves think it will make them money; like adding the tigershark. Gaijan is going to stick to sim, because although its playerbase is smaller than air realistic, it still has a playerbase. Sim is a big part of the game, whether or not some players entirely avoid it. So? A tank player can avoid planes, a plane player can avoid ships, and a ship player can avoid tanks. I am literally an everything player, an everything player except for helicopters. So what? Should gaijan remove helicopters because I dont play them? Lots of people dont play helicopters. Killing off sim will not fix anything, just like killing off naval or helis. Killing off content is a braindead idea, unless its over using resources and bringing in less money than it costs. Sim doesnt cost anything, its pixels. The gamemode has already been developed, and its not like they update it every night. Killing off sim is doing nothing in the hopes that it saves something else. If you want to save air realistic, why not just voice that? You even mentioned yourself, the reason you brought up sim is so that you can have a better thumbnail. Why? Its so counterintuitive. You cant ask for the deletion of content players like, but justify it because gaijan - might - make air realistic better.
I don't see why adding ARB EC should be a replacement for sim, gaijin could easily implement RB EC without touching sim. I agree that sim needs some changes but I play sim because it requires me to actually think and manually spot targets, if sim was just RB but first person I would never touch it. I don't play sim for the rewards, I play it because I enjoy it, hell I just ground out the mig-21 in RB so I could fly it in sim. On the topic of "We could play other games like IL-2 or DCS", keep in mind that those games cost money (especially DCS holy s***) and war thunder runs significantly better than other games on low end PC's for free. You mentioned bots, which also brings up the argument of, "if a gamemode encourages botting get rid of it", then we should also just kill off naval battles, AB/RB, all of it. I have seen less bots in SimAB and ARB combined, than I have seen in my fairly limited experience in naval. (now granted I don't fly sim past 10.3 much so I haven't really seen what goes on up there) Sim isn't perfect, but no gamemode is, I don't think killing it off is the best solution, idk that's my opinion I guess. (Sorry if this is a mess to read I'm terrible at typing.)
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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A lot of people play sim. It's just not majority. Also the rewards should be higher in sim. It takes more mental juice. We also want progression. That's why I don't play DCS. I dont have 300 per plane. Also the SIM model is high fidelity. I would posit that the developers love putting time into sim, but they also know that realistic is a much better fit for most people.
I play a mixture of both RB and sim, I enjoy both for what they are. Some of my best experiences are in sim. I've tried DCS and it's not for me, I like war thunder sim way more. If I was the game director of war thunder I would do the opposite, bring RB closer to sim, removing spotting so players actual have to use their radars and/or visually identifying bogeys.
I can see that. I think for me the preservation of mouse and keyboard controls and 3rd person is the most key for general player acceptance. Spotting is ancillary.
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I started playing last February. I played AB first to get the hang of the game. Moved on quickly to RB. When I finally dipped into sim, I found the aspect of the game that I enjoyed very much. Am I interested in SL, yes, every one that plays War Thunder is to a degree. What does SL mean for me? Well, it means I get to try out different aircraft from different nations. Should Gaijin kill sim mode? I believe that would be a mistake as it has a very good niche and monopoly of a game mode where its only competitors are IL2 and DCS, and neither of those have close to the same number of aircraft available to them. Kill sim? No. I think it needs to improve sim so much that it attracts players from the competition. As someone mentioned, sim players spend on their hardware, their controllers, and their games and have the potential to be absolute whales. So I disagree with your assumption sir. What I do agree with is that EC needs to be available to air RB too. This would make playing bombers and strike aircraft more feasible to players that enjoy ground attack, but not necessarily sim. Hell, an EC mode for tanks would be hella fun. Imagine joining a giant mid-map tank battle that had AI and player tanks all mixed in? Capture objectives other than a point in the middle of a map, escort trucks, defend ground structures, etc etc etc. Screw it, while we're at it, how about large-scale mixed combat that involves air, sea, and land based units in an EC format? I mean take a look at how Dover and Port Moresby maps are made and tell me that doesn't scream mixed vehicle battles? Navy can establish beach-heads to transport troops. Capture ports, etc in Dover. Ground can capture airbases, all while air flies protective missions overhead. Now imagine doing that in sim and RB formats. This is what I want to see more than Gaijin turning off a game mode that currently has a small population. I would even go ahead to say that Ground RB CAS would be better served if it was HOTAS only. The reason CAS is so hated right now is because of how mouse flight gives the player near pinpoint accuracy that isn't realistic at all. WarThunder needs to kill the arcade-like air RB and make Air RB EC with a better implementation for both RB and sim. Air RB in its current state is boring, repetitive, arcadey, and excludes half the planes they have created. Leave that format to Air Arcade.
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Nono, Air RB EC should be Mous Controls but not indicators or markers... What they need is to make a dynamic campaing kinda mode, add helis and maybe ground vehicles into a big EC mode but have Sim and RB into different lobbies since no sim player will wanna fight an omnicient 360 camera enemy
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As much as I agree with brining back Air RB EC I do not agree in getting rid of sim. Myself and many of my friends specifically play sim because we like it. We dont play DCS all the time because its allot more to just hop into a match and play. Air Sim allows us to enjoy our flight sticks while also having a more casual and laid back experience than the more hard core sims. WT Air sim allow such a diverse roster to fly in first person with a hotas that you just cant get anywhere else. If anything we need both and Air Sim needs to be more prominent on mode selector and not burred under menus just to find it.
I love modern jets, I want to fly F-16s, SU-25s and all the other cool things. I have time to grind. What I don't have, is the ability to spend ~$60 or even more on them like in DCS. Don't get me wrong, I love flying the SU-25T but that's all I will ever have. My other reason I like sim is because I can actually enjoy it. RB in jets (which is all I care about) is a shit-storm of missiles being launched at flareless aircraft, AAA campers, intent teamkilling and the list goes on. The Sabre was (until now, except now 7.0 jets will be fucked over) unplayable because of the F-104 in RB. In sim I haven't seen an F-104 while in the Sabre. I understand the concerns about sim being of high entry barriers, but that is the point. It is supposed to at least somewhat simulate air combat, and it has the upper-hand on other sims by being *free* if you are willing to learn and get good. War Thunder needs to fix the core issues, I'm sure I don't need to mention the issues because they are constantly brought up, not remove a mode that hardcore, genuine fans of the sim might be *relying* on like I do, to stay in the game instead of dropping it. With all due respect, deleting sim would just be a PR nightmare, and review bombs would be review nukes.
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While I don't think SIM should be removed, because it could be a lot of fun with the right equipment. But you do make a lot of good points. RB Ec would be awesome, and could potentially kill off sim alone. Not only that but wt SIM doesn't make war thunder as much money as the other gamemodes. Ngl but it feels like gaijin has been slowly killing SIM over the years. Either way I hope gaijin doesn't kill it off, it has a lot of potential.
The only reason why I don’t play sim is because everytime I get into a dogfight with someone they just turn good so without losing speed and by the time I merge with them there already on my 6 and I don’t know how also I’m a console player PS5 but tbh I do agree that sim is pretty broken But in Air Realistic Battles are way more fun and I do way better
I think you never had a good 1 vs. 1 fight in Air SIM. It's the only place where this can happend. SIM Air is the only enyoable mode in the moment, where the meta in Air RB are this 16 vs. 16 meatballs after 3min in the middle of the map. Problems: Air RB: The maps are to small for 16 vs. 16 or the number of players is to big (you can't react to all the missles (specially in High and toptier) To less targets and Missions for CAS and specially there should be Bombertargets only Ground RB: To much CAS at the same time in the air possible To weak SPAA missles (excludet: Pantsir, Strela,Typ 81C and TY90)
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I'll have to come back and watch this later, but in primis i feel like removing a gamemode from a game that doesn't have lots of 'em doesn't sound like a good idea to me, what i have alwais desired for this game is not X new aircraft or Y balance change, but just some new gamemodes to freshen up the situation, since in my opinion is getting quite stagnating. This said if war thunder didn't have sim i probably wouldn't play it as much/at all.
So you're saying it's fair to have one player being in SB mode and another in RB? Like this would be like stealing a church man... SB doesn't need to die, we just need more modes... Maybe another SB mode with markers - this is by far the biggest problem i have... The reason why i don't play SB and DCS(even though i like the concept of it and i do have purchased planes for DCS) is that by the time i know someone is friend or foe i either missed my chance to get the kill or i killed a friendly... 2 days ago i thought i was over-reacting and i joined SB with my mirage 2000 only to get 2 teamkills in under 5 minutes... I was ready to j out and die but i got kicked instead 😅 Turns out we had Su-27s both on our team and the enemy team... How TF am i supposed to recognize who is who in a furball? At least make it so that once you are actively looking on someone and he's within say 10km in jets you get a blue or red marker.. No range no nothing... Just is he a friend or an enemy... DCS is way more serious and that's what's putting me off... Like you need someone to carry you for your first months and i just haven't found that someone yet 😅
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I play on xbox series s with a HOTAS, I only play Air Sim. Real Air Battle is too Arcady for my taste, Arcade is even worse, you don’t even to get to fly, the instructor is flying or at least assisting all the time. Also using mouse pointing is not flying at all. ASB is a bit more realistic and takes a bit more skill and knowledge and is much less forgiving. If ASB is not there I will not be playing WT at all.
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WarThunder sim is the best way to play a ww2 flight sim, dcs is extremely good for sim from about middle cold war, and later. But before that its absolute dog shit. Another thing is your entire argument revolves around the fact that gaijin should not segment their playerbase, there is no need to kill off one game mode. WarThunder has an average player peak of about 80,000 active players, probably less than a 500 of those play sim on a regular basis. Air ab and rb are not struggling enough to warrant killing of sim to combine them
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for me sim was the way to level up my planes way faster then with rb mode....going into a lobby with sim and rb players at the same time is the stupidest idea ever....imagine a pantsir has rb settings and you are flying a jet with no indicators, you would be dead 2 sec after spawning....but there is a good point in the video...they should make sim experience better for the players so it is more fun to play and rewarding for new players so they get into sim.... In sim high tier just everyone sticks to the ground and you will eat an AIM missile anyway...they have to change that very hard...no matter if you fly 10 meters over ground or 5 you will still eat that missile from the guy that will see you everywhere....this is just stupid and kills the fun
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I don't agree we should kill the sim mode. The Current sim mode is great, it just needs more improvements to make it more realistic. I'm a main air sim player, from 2.7 to 12.7 , spending a lot of money and time on it as well. Compared to DCS and IL2, I enjoy the causal sim mode in WT more. Combining RB and sim mode? Hell No It is unfair to sim players who use the joystick to fly and aim
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Yea as others have said its a bad take. Why the need to kill sim why not just add EC back to air RB. Like you said the player draw isnt an issue its not like its taking players away from other modes. I must recently got a HOTAS and started playing SIM and honestly find it a blast. Its simulated enough to where you get the basic sense of flying the plane you are, but not the crazy intense fidelity like DCS. It is honestly imo the best sim there is for those who want that sim experience without the need to have a beastly machine to play DCS. And the hours and hours of learning how to even fly the plane and be proficient with it. And the cost of getting a decent hotas setup to even be able to play it effectively. I really hope SIM is here to stay. I havent had any issues finding decently full matches. And really dont want a full lobby maybe like half or 3/4 is perfect or else its just a furball but locked in first person.
I'd argue sim is better because of the lower playerbase.... where as rb is like you said 16v16. sim can be more of a 5v5 on a larger map most of the time. I know gaijin says they'll fix rb player sizes but until that happens sim is just so much less frustrating and random if you learn to read the rwr (watch a 10 min video). I can't dodge 7 amraams while dogfighting in rb. I guess rb is too much of a cluster f**k for me. But that's again, a whole other issue they are "working on".
No ! Warthunder AIR SIM is fun. It's just as realistic as it needs to be for me. I have a joystick and i had way more fun in wt air sim than in DCS bc it still feels just a bit more "arcade-y" . I don't really care about RP and credits and i enjoy hunting farming bots who hardly count as players. Not only you can fly way more easily in wt sim than in DCS you have a looot more planes and maps in wt, also its great that i can take out those sam planes and tanks i use in sim to play in realistic where i can have a different expeience. I disagree with you and i don't think these changes would benefit anybody and i would sure stop playing if one of the best things were to be taken out of the game and many others would do the same. You can have your opinion and i respect it don't get me wrong but as you can see in the comment section most people wouldn't like to have it "killed"
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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I quite literally only play sim, and i enjoy it because its simpler to get into than dcs and still fun and sort of arcady. And i do want to get Il2 strumove but i am also wanting to play with jets which is not Il2s focus at all, i am not sure if they have jets or not but it seems like its only props
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Top tier, israel as a main. Netz, Baz, and Barak. I just feel that they have been slowly preparing us for a real sim experience. That's why they implemented drop tanks.....I believe really large maps are on the way.
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Your entire premise hinges on the assumption that simulation isn't gaijins goal. But actual development has, for the most part, constantly reinforced the simulation aspect of the game. More advanced and accurate damage models and armor interaction. A VERY good radar simulation. An IR seeker implementation that is basically unrivaled, even by DCS, a plethora of actually modeled aircraft, some of which have really really good flight models when compared to contemporary flight Sims. If gaijin didn't care about simulation then they wouldn't continue to develop the simulational aspects of the game. Yet they still continue to develop the game with strong simulation, because that's actually what they care about.
You're also ignoring that flight Sim players tend to be absolute WHALES when it comes to spending money on their games. They spend hundreds or thousands on controllers alone. Sim players most certainly don't represent the majority of WT income, but it represents enough income that it matters. Besides, developing things for sim players doesn't take anything away for RB or arcade players. Development benefits the entire game. Removing sim would unnecessarily cause a PR shit-storm and absolutely negatively affect gaijin's bottom line.
Your analysis of the issues is fair enough, but the conclusion of removing sim is just... It doesn't make sense from basically any analytical angle. More and better modes i can absolutely agree with. RB EC sounds great. Hell, arcade EC sounds great.
I play sim with hostas and vr... But you know what I play more of? Arcade Battles. Sim players aren't segregated and separate from the rest of the game. Some are pretentious assholes sure, but so are some folks in any of the other game modes. Most sim players are RB or AB players as well.
Best rebuttal in the comments so far. A high fidelity flight model for sim does 'flow thru' to RB and Arcade as well. Hrmmmmm
Based
this
Exactly, he doesnt understand that the whole game is a simulation, the difference between rb and sim, is that rb is basically playing with MASSIVE aim/flight assist. Ive spent hundres of $$$ on war thunder and ALL i play is sim
I think that their focus on sim is what makes war thunder alive and unique, it trickles down to us mortal realistic enjoyers how the vehicles are strongly characterized
Rb is over in minutes. Atleast in sim you can use aircraft the way they're meant to be used
Yes! That’s why I want Air RB EC!
@hav3nWT I would like air rb ec but a few things need to change. I don't want to be spotted from half way across the map like air rb. It would make my buccaneer completely useless. In sim I can fly low. Under 100m and hit targets behind enemy lines. Sometimes I get killed but in air rb its like.. oh look a buccaneer 11km away lets go for him...
@@hav3nWT Would be impossible to play in VR. No way to compete. Not against mouse aim.
@@hav3nWTin sim I am able to use my inner gremlin mode and sneak up behind blind PVE players that don’t check 6 and blow them out of the sky with them not knowing I was even there if there was no spotting in RB I would play it more but spotting dots in the sky is more fun for me then having a bing red name in the sky
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Top tier sim is better than RB
As someone who isnt anywhere Near Top Tier how so? Ive heard Top Tier RB sucks because of how snipey it is.
@@hyrulehero7834 you have to detect enemy aircraft using sensors present on your aircraft, in RB you can see the name tag, the problem here is that the spotting system is garbage and has been for the past 6 years, the target is 2km away from you yet it isnt spotted. In RB the matches are 1 plane only while in SB you can spawn multiple times which means that if you get killed by an undodgeable R27ER you can still play. There are a lot less players in an SB aswell so you cant really get outnumbered 5v1. In my opibion its a lot better, since Im on PC and cant afford a sim rig, I play with a controller and with keyboard combination and still perform well in any aircraft. The radar on the Su27 and Mig29 are so bad that sometimes they cant spot you and their RWR gets track pinged, thats all they see, then they get hit with an AIM7M if it didnt go 90° left the moment I fired it
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I'm not motivated by any sort of gain from sim, it's just that air RB is garbage, and air sim offers a skill based experience that still falls short of the ultra realistic nature of DCS. If I want to play DCS, it's because I want high fidelity realism, if I play war thunder sim it's because I want an enjoyable experience that is still has enough unrealistic factors that it caters to much less hardcore audience than DCS PvP does.
I've been advocating for EC to return permanently to RB, but I'd still probably play sim purely because of the higher skill ceiling.
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I remember when SIM was meant to be the definitive way to play warthunder and everything else was just building up to it. Gaijin has really zoomer-ified the game in the past 5 years, but sim still has the most potential of any game mode IMO, it just needs work
I think it will remain niche but point taken.
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bad take
But it sure as hell gains views.
@@Bobspineable Yeah that’s the point…op is quite dishonest.
@Bobspineable yea, but it didn't even get that many views.
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4:54 a lot of warthunder players are on console and unable to access said games so this is the closest and best thing we have, and there is a lot of enjoyment from playing with friends (which I’m guessing you don’t do) because it increases situational awareness and overall k/d with two or more people looking out for each other
So just because YOU can't have fun in SIM, no other player should have? And for YOU Sim game should only be played with hotas, this is such a bad take. Keep playing RB and stop complaining for a game mode that you don't play. Let us have fun, keep playing that brain rot RB mode and let the rest of us have fun.
Yeah further more im on ps5 so not alot of option for playing anything aviation wise that is remotely like WT
WT sim is just RB without third person and with trash physics and sound design, change my mind
@@smigoltime physics are a bit wack in sim but that's sorta besides the point. More or less sim is made for a more relaxing take on war thunder, I can die like 7 times in sim and still be happy. That can't really be said for rb. It's not to everyone's liking but if you do like sim, you really like it.
@@mr_aussieboi3385 Mmmyeaaah I guess I could agree on that. In my case, ever since I tried IL-2 Great Battles, I will never ever go back to WT sim
@@smigoltime I play war thunder sim for the more top tier jet stuff, yeah I know about and have played a little DCS but although its an amazing game its a little too hardcore for me, with sim I can play a load of jets from very early jets, to stuff like Su-27s f15s etc without having to learn the controls and buttons of a whole new plane each time, the bonus is doing a cas role in ground sim, im not sure where else you can do something like that against other players, not to mention helicoptors and playing realistic battles if i feel like it all in one place.
Sounds like a skill issue
It often is.
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Bro I bet the tiny group of sim players are half the money spent on the game. Sim is the only good mode in the game.
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I play sim for the pure enjoyment of experience, I love the challenge of identifying enemy planes and getting on their six, while trying in to not lose track of them. It gives a great dopamine rush when I get a kill especially an enemy fighter aircraft. Mainly due to the fact that I am bad at sim. I somehow usually lose more SL then I gain due to my skill issue and regain it in Air RB. I am still mid/early tech tree with my newest aircraft only being at 5.7, but I love the way that I can fly in any aircraft I want without learning the manual or buying a DLC. I don't think I have played enough to give a proper response. But I wanted to share my take. I liked your analysis and I hope Sim or an alternative will come to my attention. I don't play DCS as I don't have enough spare money to upgrade my SSD to install it and time to learn it, plus my friends don't play it. Anyway thanks for reading if you got this far, sorry for any grammatical errors :)
I respect it. The challenge is the fun and also there is a more casual experience available too all in the same game. Makes sense.
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@@hav3nWT Nice will watch
Honestly, Air RB EC would be the ONLY reason for me to return to aircraft modes in this game. Every time RB EC was present I had tons of fun, had many 1 v 1s, historical scenarios etc. Current Air RB makes me want to Alt F4 after couple minutes.
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The only reason why I am not playing SIM more often is, because of the fact that I don't have a Joystick, pedals, etc.
In its current state Air RB is a f'in mess. Gaijin has the tools to fix Air RB or make it more bearable, but they just won't, because money speaks louder than passion sadly.
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The entire idea that we should think about player masses and percentages and profits is the reason modern games are so awful. You're looking at this from the perspective of upper management, not from the perspective of a game developer. You also fail to account for the fact that different game modes have different goals. The only true overarching goal for the game is just to be fun. And many players (including me) enjoy sim, so it has accomplished that goal. Different players see different things in different game modes that you won't see, frankly.
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actual lobotomite behaviour to even suggest removing sim because the people who play it are not the 'primary customer' the mode can perfectly co-exist along side other modes, i do feel like sim needs a re-haul and there's a lot of potential to be had with it. But so can Air RB, it also needs a re-haul, just adding air RB EC is not enough, we need different modes implemented instead of the usual team deathmatch BS. Yes Air RB EC is a start, but its still going to be, for the most part, a team death match where there is just fighters clashing and dying and repeating. Modes where you could work with all vehicle types in 1 match and have player controlled helicopters, jets, tanks and sometimes ships, and have operation missions where you either defend or attack a position, would be much better as it would make the gameplay of war thunder less repetitive and boring, as every match feels uniform to the last, and the same will be for Air RB EC, it will just get boring real quick due to the lack of different roles you can play. But overall, the argument for removing sim is just ignorant to the people who enjoy it. Use your platform to give ideas on how to improve the game, instead of just voicing terrible takes just to get views.
I think you’re ignoring a lot of practical resource constraints.
@@hav3nWT gaijin has plenty of resources at hand, and if they don't they can easily afford it, to add multiple different modes without scrapping sim
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Air Simulator Battle EC is the best gamemode WT has to offer. The real question is, why WT makes it so unaccessible and fails so hard at promoting it. The fact that even on console a lot of players still think they need a flight stick and pedals in order to be able to play sim even though it's perfectly possible to play it with a controller is just absurd. They could have opened an entire new market out of it by selling the realistic cockpits or teaming up with the manufacturers of flightsticks, pedals and head tracking devices for PC.
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I don't get that neither I been playing SIM with my console for the past 4 or 5 years and I'm still killing it with a controller
He’s not considering the fact that warthunder sim is the most realistic sim plane game you can get on console.
I would love to play DCS instead but I’m on console. Warthunder is the best I have.
Horrible take.
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You have some really good points. But I believe are many simulator battles players who also enjoy the other modes.+ War thunder is free game. You mentioned Il-2 and DCS..
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You don't play sim plain and simple. I know this because you think sim players only play sim for "Mission points, SL, RP". If you played sim you know you don't get rewards mission points are the only that isn't capped. This whole video is you telling us that sim should disappear because you don't play it nor enjoy playing it. "We should get rid of Jews because I don't like them" same energy.
Well that escalated quickly. I don't think I'm recommending g*noc1de but I could have missed it in the video, I dunno - I'll have to rewatch it and check my script :)
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What they need to do is take away the rewards for attacking runways, greatly reduce the rewards for bombing and increase the award for playing pvp. The whole problem with sim is that it has been ruined by people botting/unaliving themselves attacking runways and just ground pounding (the way you are in this video. You are the problem) and then leaving as soon as players try and pvp. Anyways you have a bad take and im glad gajjin dosent care what you have to say.
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@@hav3nWT don't care.
I think using hotas with VR in Sim might be the pinochle of the WT experience. Once I got into it I couldn’t go back to playing RB anymore.
Once i unlocked my first jet with IFF..... i never played RB again, sim only.
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I just dont think you should make another video lol @@hav3nWT
I been playing SIM for the past 5 years and let me just say, i haven't gotten back to any other mode ever since.
Arcade and RB is just pathetic and too easy, but thats just me.
I don't like arcade battles, gaijin should kill it
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@@hav3nWT No. Thanks!
I doubt you genuinely believe this because a lot of what you say is subjective and wrong.
You make it to the end?
Yeah this take is very wacky, and it may be coincidence that he's in the F-104G(Ger) with some obvious connotations that come with playing Germany
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“Sim isn’t fun”
-Signed, a Zomber
DCS doesn’t let you take off with the I key no warmup/ bs. And I see 5-14 player teams of F16Cs chomping at the bit to fight (that I do fight and beat with mouse and keyboard)
Frankly, I cannot accept your opinions based on the background footage and commentary.
If sim is a dead mode as you say, why kill it? It isn’t costing any resources
If sim isn’t a dead mode then there isn’t an issue to start lol
Bro almost noone who really like SIM plays it for sl rp and mission points. Its economy has already been destroyed by people who came there to get points. Those who type LETS PLAY PVE every single time they join the session. And those who are actually bad at SIM so theyre only compintent enough to fly to Base, click and crash. SIM is a gamemode that has a lot of potential. And some people choose it over RB because RB is repetative missile spam skill-equalised furbal and it does not matter if youre good or bad at the game. If u can spam flares on your pressious gripen and launch an aim9m and never climb above 100m from the ground YOURE FINE.
I play SIM because you have to use avionics to find enemy. You have to know how to use it. You have full controls of your plane. Cockpit visibility matters a lot (I can come from behind and below and the guy won't see me for example). HUD only matters in SIM. It is another type of pleasure.
Sure, the RB would be better if it was EC. But killing SIM isn't nescessary to rework RB.
Lets KILL RB INSTEAD. AND FIX BOTH SIM AND RB.
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I used to play SIM and left for DCS, more than a year ago. I watched your video to see why SIM is to blame for WT being sh*t... Turns out the video is about something else and it has a valid point, but I would like to point out something key - SIM was killed years ago and SIM as a concept abandoned for the game as a whole. So whet the GUI buttons get removed as you ask, the game will remain shit and RB players will never be happy.
4:42 I’m a console player, I cannot afford to buy even a decent PC, on console the closest thing I can get to a flight sim like DCS or IL2 is war thunder sim and if it were removed a lot of console players like me who enjoy sim would have no alternatives to play
Better take: they should buff rewards from sim battles, incentivizing playing that game mode more than the others 🎉
You can not change my fucking mind. Sim is fun but have your hates on it but DCS is basically spend 60 dollars on a map or a group of aircraft. And war-thunder is free. Find a way to be strategic in the game. If you can’t aim a lot be a bomber or cas.
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Sim is the best. They should get rid of every other mode an be a sim game.
There’s always one. Lol.
@hav3nWT jokes aside I'm sure it's going to get way better one day. You're absolutely right with your analysis but if there's more than one if me which I'm pretty sure there is your idea of killing the mode is absolutely crazy. They can combine ground sim an air but your ideas wouldn't slide I don't think. Sorry dude. I'm still subscribed tho no hard feelings here keep up the videos..
@@2bparistol8 all good dude. I just want the game to be better all the time. Gaijin does a better job that most people give them credit (which is why we're still all here talking about it) so hopefully they have some plans to improve the mode. I want to like it!
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You're a fool if you think SIM players play SIM for the EC aspect, EC is good and SIM is good, I just don't get why you can't wrap your head around these being separate things and people enjoying SIM because you can't ( I'm assuming that's because you're a metagamer 'going for mission points' and don't care about the actual gameplay and flight elements, which is where SIM players find their enjoyment)
Anyways, plenty of the problems you point at are real and they could definitely be fixed/improved upon, but you're not the person that's going to fx it and thank god for that, if SIM was removed from war thunder, SIM players would go with it and play something else, and won't jump in RB EC for you to play with
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the problem with cas is that there is no way for a tank to defend itself, an infantry man with a panzerfaust can be machinegunned, you have a viable counter with them. for air you need a dedicated spaag, and a lot of players just want to enjoy their tanks without the worry of revenge bombing or just cas in genneral
to add to this, i play sim for the sole purpose of enjoyment. its realistic and a good step up from those who dont find enough out of rb.
if i sim wasnt a thing i would never have even gotten a hotas. it uses the same core aspect of what you learned from rb and expands on it. the teamwork in sim is emaculate, its the only gamemode where i am activly enticed to give it my all to win. i regularly win games where i wouldnt have won if i gave up.
dcs and il2 are maybe just as good but its a completly new game u need to learn and buy. sim has that sweetspot of low barrier of entry and large skill cap. i just pop my stick on my desk and dont even need to switch to a different game.
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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For reference I have about 8000 hours in the game with that time split mainly between just under 28,000 RB matches and 1400 sim matches with 3000 ish arcade matches thrown in and I am 12.0+ not including premiums in every tree except italy and germany which I stopped at 9.7 and 9.3 respectively.
So for me sim, which I play exclusively for the purpose of pvp combat, is objectively more fun than air rb even though I’ve played that far more. And flying in cockpit view with sim control in RB puts you at such an awareness disadvantage there is no point.
I have DCS and a few planes there but I play warthunder sim more; it’s way quicker easier to get into a game, I like that I can unlock new vehicles (and so many more at that) by playing instead of just paying, speaking of paying the requirements to run the 2 games is separated by a decade my 2080 struggles to push more than 40-60 fps on med-low settings on dcs in 1440p but doesn’t flinch from 144 in warthunder on max, I like how in warthunder when I get into a new plane the only thing I have to learn is how it flies and the weapon systems my controls stay the same.
Warthunder has its shortcomings as a sim (the amount of ‘people’ who just bomb for one) but for anyone who wants a lot of variety or doesn’t want to go full hardcore all the time it is pretty much the only option.
As a final point there is one compromise which I would be willing to accept, effectively allow RB controls in an EC mode which has no markers with 3rd person being the only part here I’m not sure about. This way people who want the EC experience can have it without having to learn sim controls and sim players also are not completely abandoned.
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Your reasoning and conclusion for the complaints against CAS in GRB is spot on, IMO. I’d like to see EC come back too, I’ve never experienced it. But I think it might be a stretch to assume dumping Sim would end in a positive for RB or AB.
About Sim players not playing WT as a fun game.. What percentage of RB players do you estimate play WT as a fun game? WT seems to focus on progression and running a hamster wheel, like many MMO’s. The player base treats this game like a job, which is a cause of problems like BR compression due an ADHD-like queue intolerance.
I dig your videos - especially the gameplay commentary variety. It’d be great if there was support for a creator like yourself to cultivate a sense of playing the game for fun, for great matches and strategies for trying to win the match. I’d support that.
95% of my videos are going to be gameplay - I promise this won't be a rant channel. :) - I play for fun and I like sharing that.
This topic has just been on the tip of my tongue and Air RB (which I love) had been feeling repetitive lately - so I really want Air RB EC. Sim just seems like it's suffering. We should put it out of it's misery or actually fix it - and I don't see them fixing it.
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Holy shit what a hilariously bad take... one that you dont even sound convinced of yourself.
Your entire premise is bassed off assumption and personal perspective. "Go play DCS" brother most do, and yet sim in WT still has people coming back. What you fail to mention is how WT sim bridges the gap between insanely in depth and intense simulator and an arcade experience. It maintains the flight models and simulator feel with simplifying the control schemes. Unlike DCS i dont have to learn a multi buttom, visually interactive system to select, lock, arm, and launch an AGM. I can switch between multiple FREE planes in a match and the controls all apply. This is what sets WT sim miles apart from games like DCS.
Secondly you assume sim players have all these glaring issues with sim, and we share your viewpoint. You assume we would be better off elsewhere, and we are just lying to ourselves about actually enjoying the game mode. Yet you see most Sim players are either completely finished with thier primary air tree, or branch, and just play sim for the pure enjoyment not for the sense of grinding. To this point, the SL cost of sim is immense, with most people going negative in SL even after a decent match going positive. To just assume whats best for an entire player base and saying "just go play another game" Is so idiotic.
The fact that there is zero follow up with this incredibly clickbait, nonsensical video months later tells me you just posted it without serious intentions to discuss. Only to piss people off and cause a stir for the sake of views. If you ACTUALLY want to discuss these points youve made here let me know. Id happily discuss them in an interview style video you can post.
I replied to like the first 100 comments. Since then I haven't. Message me on discord about the interview style. I'll ask some questions and make a follow up video. @hav3nwt
@hav3nWT what kind of response is this lmao
Bro if u want ground match like karma air match is okey but come on fucking sim is okey. If u dont like it dont play it
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my only issue with sim is how having air superiority means nothing, bases are almost impossible to defend against a flock of phantom bots.
you could have up to 40 player kills and still lose over some timmy who learned to press 3 buttons on repeat for hours
Good point. Very unsatisfying
I have to agree with this. The economy of sim needs a rework. Especially in the top tier aspect of sim. yes its based off of activity and battle tasks done but at the same time getting up in high tier where you can be locked from across the map just makes it even harder to achieve those tasks without encountering a dogfight or two. This issue means that for every pvp encounter you have it costs you 14.5k sl to fly out the plane and you only get 3-4k sl per air kill. So if you lose the dogfight you are already in the red.
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I have an idea, bring EC in realistic along side normal air realistic while completely changing sim to bring something new that not many games have, a dynamic campaign lasting very long with changing objectives ecc, something similar to enigma's server on DCS but better
I like this idea. Let SIM evolve past Air SB EC.
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Anything but sim = just telling some asshole where to point the plane 🎉
If flown a few thousand hours in WT sim. WT sim is like playing my favourite movie. It's is more game centric than DCS or Il2 and offers a unique experience not found anywhere. This game centricness ensures you'll always get into a fight per every tank of gas. The problem was that the hardcore sim pilots had the planes that they liked and flew them all the time and weren't spending any real money with Gaijin. To fix this, Gaijin turned the mode into a grind fest, which attracts players not interested in the nuances of flying WT sim. It's a chore for those pilots. I fly Il2 and DCS as well, but WT sim scratches an itch those other two can't reach.
I guess you're correct? nowadays i only play Air SB because i've been watching DCS content for a long time, as a f2p player, it took a lot of money in order to setup DCS "correctly" so what i'm stuck with is WT Air SB, at first i'm kind of intimidated by the mouse joystick, but i thought to myself that this is what i have, so this is what i have to learn and be good at, surprisingly, i enjoyed it!
i started play Air SB once i got my Mirage 2K C-S4 from the last event, since Air RB top tier will be hell for grinding modules, i decided to do Air SB for grinding mods, from there i learned my way from 0 to fully spaded my Mirage and be decently good at it
Then with the Jaguar IS event, i switch to grind my main Air tree which is US that so far i've been grinding in Air RB. I start from rank VI (F-104A), and now, with the Jaguar IS event, i'm already at rank VII and currently unlocking mods for my F-5E! so in the span of almost 2 weeks, i've grinded 6 planes (5 Rank VI, 2 Rank VII) in Air SB alone, which imo, really effective and fastest way to grind without premium account/vehicles
All in all, imo, the reason why i enjoy air SB is:
1. Closer to what i originally wanted (DCS)
2. Much slower paced compared to top tier Air RB so you can relax while playing
3. Combat are more engaging & rewarding due to limitations of this mode (cockpit view only, full real control, no marking)
4. You can spawn multiple times, so your SL & RP Boosters will be guaranteed to be useful
Here's what i propose for the new mode that blends Air RB & Air SB:
From Air RB:
1. Keep the mouse & keyboard controls
2. Keep the weapon UI as is (Bomb "Reticle", Missile "Rings", etc)
From Air SB:
1. Keep the EC Match format
2. Keep the no marking aspect for enemies, for friendlies... idk if we should keep the mark or remove it, i guess that's up to you to decide
3. Lock the player view to cockpit view, this is imo, what separate the current point and click adventure of Air RB, and proper dogfight of Air SB, the fact that you can lead your target in 3rd person view is practically impossible to do in 1st person because it'll be blocked by your own cockpit, this way, the fight will last longer and be more exciting & interesting
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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TLDR; kill sim because they have the enduring confrontation mode the OP wants in RB.
Removing sim would be stupid of gaijin and make all the modern hmd useless. They should add helis to air sim but other than that sim is fine as it is.
Sim is not fine as it is bro
@@RogueBeatsARG played quite a bit in it, better to leave it as it is than to remove it
@@KNMRoaldAmundsen Obviously Removing it would be dumb, but needs to be improved imo
@@RogueBeatsARG yeah that is true
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I don't necessarily agree with killing off sim, but I do agree with your point that Gaijin are a little too fixated on queue times. They absolutely shake in their boots whenever an idea that might affect queue times is brought up. *cough cough BR DECOMPRESSION*
Anecdotally, I don't think a 3-5 minute queue time has ever dissuaded me from playing. Now a ground sim wait time of 15+ minutes has, but that is an extreme example.
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air rb ec isnt a bad idea. I dont like how gaijan entirely has it right now. I think we all agree on that. Gaijan definitely will have the means to put some overtime into the issue with all the tigershark and new premium sales. Plus, a better game mode means more people willing to pay more in the future. However, none of that requires that sim needs to be deleted.
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Air and Ground RB are the most popular modes, theyre also the least enjoyable where the playerbase complains the most and is the unhappiest. The sim community is the happiest in game we dont have complaints like 16v16 and missile spam and all this other shenanigans you guys have to deal with in the hellscape that is air rb
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I got a better idea, make an arcade mode sim version only where you just spawn in to fight. Also giving low respawn costs.
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I loved sim air mode 11-10 years ago. It was called FRB back then and there was no ground or ships back then. It was coolest mode in game. But I kinda didnt liked what they made with that mode after that.
So you want to remove sim battles because you don't like them xD You literally sound like you've tried to play sim battles for more RP (which it doesn't grant, RB is more RP/hour - sim battles are capped) but you're not particularly good at this so you resolved to PvE but other players that actually play the gamemode were shooting you down because sim battles are ultimately PvP gamemode. And it sounds like it hurts your butt to the point that you want to take revenge upon them by facing them with cheat codes (you with RB arcade mechanics vs. them with sim mechanics)
It's another instance of warthunder players turning against each other as if research points were a limited resource and other players are taking it away from them. Where in reality, it's Gajin who is deliberately making RP income low.
Sim battles is not what's withholding Gajin from introducing EC to RB, Gajin is. Stop the stockholm syndrome, don't make excuses for Gajin and try to solve their problems for them. If you do that, you may have a problem with addiction.
Yes, sim battles are best played with HOTAS and VR, but no we're not taking your RP nor forcing you to play it and removing sim mode won't add more research points to your bank account.
No, Warthunder sim players won't be "better off" playing DCS/IL-2 simply because Warthunder sim mode offers a different niche - it offers casual sim experience w/ multi-era vehicles.
Yes, sim mode issues are low priority and thus Gajin treats them like that. And that's why sim players are complaining because they don't get many updates. But they play the game and they pay for premium account and vehicles so Gajin benefits from them. Therefore there's no financial incentive and thus no added benefit of removing the gamemode because you'd be cutting away some of your customers that you don't need to pay extra to sustain.
Playing sim has helped me grind fast. I play 6.0-7.0 air mainly due to event. Tbh I don’t want sim deleted but a crack down on player bots. Sure, I could play fighters; but for building score to rack up RP, bombers and attackers are the way to go.
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You really hit the nail on the head at 6:55. Sim EC isn't dead because it has sim controls, its dead because the EC mode sucks. Its incrediblt naive to assume that the same implementation with a different control scheme wouldn't also result in the same problems.
EC def needs improvements.
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I primarily play sim but also play arcade with my friends to laugh my ass off sometimes. I'd delete and forget the game if sim battles got removed.
Edit: sim allows you to use the aircraft as often as you want, which gives you the opportunity to feel like a pilot of that specific aircraft and makes you enjoy every flight with it instead of dying after 5 minutes and having to switch to a piece of metal you only use to make it through the mission so you (hopefully) get the points with no enjoyment. Be honest. You start every match just to get to fly that one favorite aircraft and when it's gone it's not fun anymore.
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popular because its EASY!!! ...and BORING!!! I want challenging with sense of satisfaction, like in real life. Want easy go play arcade fps game. This should be a flying game not mouse-pointing shooter.
Nothing beats being locked in a cocpit, sounds of engines all around and fighting for your life. Wrestling controls to get behind a bomber and systematicaly targeting each of its engines to watch it tumble out of the sky.
Compared to RB, the point and click adventure game taking place in a cesspool of handholding combat.
Sim has the risk - reward that RB doesnt. You need to actualy learn how each aircraft performs. Weapon employment taking exceptionaly more skill results in ACTUAL dogfights. You just cant get that in RB.
The stories I have from playing sim could fill the bible yet I dont think I have a single memorable moment from RB. You tend to remember and enjoy the harder to acheive something is.
I play DCS too but ironicaly it feels more empty and abandoned that SIM EC, its a cold enviroment that takes far too much time + effort to get anything out of. EC can be enjoyed solo unlike the slower DCS.
Also, fix the AA (Real sim players know what I mean) - Its the only thing that stops me from booting the game up right now.
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For me, this is a bad take. I got a HOTAS for Christmas and bought myself a VR headset and man flying around in SIM is the most enjoyable part of the whole game. The game mode is miserable without some sort of head tracking and joystick, but once you get those it really is phenomenal. Getting a gun kill is so rewarding because of the difficulty. The game feels so much more intense and is way more rewarding than the TikTokified AirRB that lasts 2-10 minutes.
Picking up HOTAS/VR is like the final progression I see in my future. It must be said tho - that GroundRB/AirRB are more popular than SIM because of their accessibility.
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The TL:DW is that War Thunder should probably kill sim battles as they most likely wouldn’t bother fixing it since it’s main audience is obviously not making WT bookoo bucks and probably won’t after fixing it.
I obviously would rather have it stay, it provides a free to play near sim experience without going broke over dcs modules. I do think that they show interest in making a sim experience as they are developing a vr game called Aces of Thunder which is supposed to be a vr flight sim experience (though the game seems to be a psvr 2 exclusive which pisses me off as I do not feel like spending 1000 dollars on a console and another vr headset)
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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As a console user who plays sim exclusively, it’s the only good “simulator” that is accessible to console players. If I was more financially set DCS and other pc platforms do make sense. As it stands warthunder is the only place I can affordably play HOTAS simulator. This goes for many others. I agree there should be more useful modes for attackers etc… but there is still a large player base on sim.
I left warthunder for IL-2 and DCS. I will say this is fairly accurate. I left because sim isnt that fun anymore. I left it because of Zombie bombers with their buddies that would land outside of airfields and go afk for their bot buddies to collect points in bombers. 2ndly by eliminating sim internal cockpit modeling needs are mosly eliminated so that is one place where assets dont have to be developed. 3rdly please make Naval or Air Ec a thing for realistic battles. It would make BVR, Plane Identification and various plane types and objectives relevant. Currently WT matches are too small other than for dogfight TDM. Objective based combat would make each plane valuable for its strengths not just ultimate A2A capability.
Thank you for your thoughts!
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I was initially a bit annoyed by this idea, but the more I listened, I became more annoyed about the fact of how much sense this makes...
However, as @enigma points out, WT sim is one of the few places you get to enjoy a wide variety of plane eras, and (if you're using hotas), once you have a good setup, it transfers to all planes - DCS is more finicky, and other things like falcon BMS are very focused on one plane. So I agree with parts of what you're saying, but would be very sad to see sim go...
I would play SIM but i dont have joystick i have only steering wheel and gamepad but they make no sense in airplane
Nimbal has a guide for setting up a 360 controller to play sim. It's what I use when I don't want to lug out the hotas. Really effective.
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Forcing RB players to play EC would be horrible. Sure it would fix the bomber problem (I'm not sure Gaijin really wants to fix it at all) but EC matches are extremely long and RB players already complain about long matches when they incidentally have to chase that one guy with a bomber. I honestly don't know how to solve the bomber problem in RB without pissing off someone. Killing SIM would piss off a niche but whale playerbase who spends quite a bit on the game + saying your game is a sim makes it competitive against other sims. Maybe Gaijin could introduce RB EC separately since rolling the dice and randomly getting a 2 hour match of EC might put off RB players who just want to jump in with their buddies for an hour and finish their matches.
I wish we got Air RB Enduring Conf.
Thats literally all we need.
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With VR and hotass sim rocks but is neglec5ed badly. rb sucks and is boring, eliminating sim will eliminate warthunders future potential too as vr ramps up. Sounds like you are as bored with RB as the rest of us but you want easy mode as sim is too hard for you so sim players should go play dcs .. lol
This ^
Yeah but ground Sim has a huge following alot of people play ground sim because of how realistic it is.
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Skill issue, there are people flying SB with M+K
I think the guy doing this video must be one from the developers that want to full monetise war thunder
In short, assume that War Thunder is the Fortnite of war games. This is ok. They have players for that.
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I dont like how sim is implied to be the problem. Killing off sim wont magically awaken gaijan to fix other gamemodes. You can say the same thing about naval in that case. The truth is that gaijan only ever acts on things when they are being review bombed or else they themselves think it will make them money; like adding the tigershark. Gaijan is going to stick to sim, because although its playerbase is smaller than air realistic, it still has a playerbase. Sim is a big part of the game, whether or not some players entirely avoid it. So? A tank player can avoid planes, a plane player can avoid ships, and a ship player can avoid tanks. I am literally an everything player, an everything player except for helicopters. So what? Should gaijan remove helicopters because I dont play them? Lots of people dont play helicopters. Killing off sim will not fix anything, just like killing off naval or helis. Killing off content is a braindead idea, unless its over using resources and bringing in less money than it costs. Sim doesnt cost anything, its pixels. The gamemode has already been developed, and its not like they update it every night. Killing off sim is doing nothing in the hopes that it saves something else. If you want to save air realistic, why not just voice that? You even mentioned yourself, the reason you brought up sim is so that you can have a better thumbnail. Why? Its so counterintuitive. You cant ask for the deletion of content players like, but justify it because gaijan - might - make air realistic better.
Sim is unfortunately not free for Gaijin. Without that understanding it makes sense that you don’t understand my argument. Thanks anyways tho.
I don't see why adding ARB EC should be a replacement for sim, gaijin could easily implement RB EC without touching sim. I agree that sim needs some changes but I play sim because it requires me to actually think and manually spot targets, if sim was just RB but first person I would never touch it. I don't play sim for the rewards, I play it because I enjoy it, hell I just ground out the mig-21 in RB so I could fly it in sim. On the topic of "We could play other games like IL-2 or DCS", keep in mind that those games cost money (especially DCS holy s***) and war thunder runs significantly better than other games on low end PC's for free. You mentioned bots, which also brings up the argument of, "if a gamemode encourages botting get rid of it", then we should also just kill off naval battles, AB/RB, all of it. I have seen less bots in SimAB and ARB combined, than I have seen in my fairly limited experience in naval. (now granted I don't fly sim past 10.3 much so I haven't really seen what goes on up there) Sim isn't perfect, but no gamemode is, I don't think killing it off is the best solution, idk that's my opinion I guess.
(Sorry if this is a mess to read I'm terrible at typing.)
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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The thing about DCS is that its expensive AF
A lot of people play sim. It's just not majority. Also the rewards should be higher in sim. It takes more mental juice. We also want progression. That's why I don't play DCS. I dont have 300 per plane. Also the SIM model is high fidelity. I would posit that the developers love putting time into sim, but they also know that realistic is a much better fit for most people.
I play a mixture of both RB and sim, I enjoy both for what they are. Some of my best experiences are in sim. I've tried DCS and it's not for me, I like war thunder sim way more. If I was the game director of war thunder I would do the opposite, bring RB closer to sim, removing spotting so players actual have to use their radars and/or visually identifying bogeys.
I can see that. I think for me the preservation of mouse and keyboard controls and 3rd person is the most key for general player acceptance. Spotting is ancillary.
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I started playing last February. I played AB first to get the hang of the game. Moved on quickly to RB. When I finally dipped into sim, I found the aspect of the game that I enjoyed very much. Am I interested in SL, yes, every one that plays War Thunder is to a degree.
What does SL mean for me? Well, it means I get to try out different aircraft from different nations.
Should Gaijin kill sim mode? I believe that would be a mistake as it has a very good niche and monopoly of a game mode where its only competitors are IL2 and DCS, and neither of those have close to the same number of aircraft available to them.
Kill sim? No. I think it needs to improve sim so much that it attracts players from the competition. As someone mentioned, sim players spend on their hardware, their controllers, and their games and have the potential to be absolute whales. So I disagree with your assumption sir.
What I do agree with is that EC needs to be available to air RB too. This would make playing bombers and strike aircraft more feasible to players that enjoy ground attack, but not necessarily sim. Hell, an EC mode for tanks would be hella fun. Imagine joining a giant mid-map tank battle that had AI and player tanks all mixed in? Capture objectives other than a point in the middle of a map, escort trucks, defend ground structures, etc etc etc.
Screw it, while we're at it, how about large-scale mixed combat that involves air, sea, and land based units in an EC format? I mean take a look at how Dover and Port Moresby maps are made and tell me that doesn't scream mixed vehicle battles?
Navy can establish beach-heads to transport troops. Capture ports, etc in Dover. Ground can capture airbases, all while air flies protective missions overhead. Now imagine doing that in sim and RB formats.
This is what I want to see more than Gaijin turning off a game mode that currently has a small population.
I would even go ahead to say that Ground RB CAS would be better served if it was HOTAS only. The reason CAS is so hated right now is because of how mouse flight gives the player near pinpoint accuracy that isn't realistic at all.
WarThunder needs to kill the arcade-like air RB and make Air RB EC with a better implementation for both RB and sim. Air RB in its current state is boring, repetitive, arcadey, and excludes half the planes they have created. Leave that format to Air Arcade.
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Nono, Air RB EC should be Mous Controls but not indicators or markers... What they need is to make a dynamic campaing kinda mode, add helis and maybe ground vehicles into a big EC mode but have Sim and RB into different lobbies since no sim player will wanna fight an omnicient 360 camera enemy
Maybe. No markers would make it a bit more fair.
@@hav3nWT I mean what's the point of EC if gonna be Air RB with respawns? Check out Matt Awg Norway realistic event, that's the vibe
The mode being PvE would fix that
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As much as I agree with brining back Air RB EC I do not agree in getting rid of sim.
Myself and many of my friends specifically play sim because we like it. We dont play DCS all the time because its allot more to just hop into a match and play. Air Sim allows us to enjoy our flight sticks while also having a more casual and laid back experience than the more hard core sims. WT Air sim allow such a diverse roster to fly in first person with a hotas that you just cant get anywhere else.
If anything we need both and Air Sim needs to be more prominent on mode selector and not burred under menus just to find it.
I love modern jets, I want to fly F-16s, SU-25s and all the other cool things. I have time to grind. What I don't have, is the ability to spend ~$60 or even more on them like in DCS. Don't get me wrong, I love flying the SU-25T but that's all I will ever have.
My other reason I like sim is because I can actually enjoy it. RB in jets (which is all I care about) is a shit-storm of missiles being launched at flareless aircraft, AAA campers, intent teamkilling and the list goes on. The Sabre was (until now, except now 7.0 jets will be fucked over) unplayable because of the F-104 in RB. In sim I haven't seen an F-104 while in the Sabre. I understand the concerns about sim being of high entry barriers, but that is the point. It is supposed to at least somewhat simulate air combat, and it has the upper-hand on other sims by being *free* if you are willing to learn and get good.
War Thunder needs to fix the core issues, I'm sure I don't need to mention the issues because they are constantly brought up, not remove a mode that hardcore, genuine fans of the sim might be *relying* on like I do, to stay in the game instead of dropping it.
With all due respect, deleting sim would just be a PR nightmare, and review bombs would be review nukes.
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I like the idea of Air RB EC. Im sure there are some RB games close to EC. Not sure why you would need to kill sim.
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0 sense in what you said lol
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4:01
Solution:
Decrease the amount of mission points gained by spamming rockets on Aifields/bases?
Or am I missing something?
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Um..you forget war thunder was originally based off and was made just for this all other navel tank ..arcade is added.
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While I don't think SIM should be removed, because it could be a lot of fun with the right equipment. But you do make a lot of good points. RB Ec would be awesome, and could potentially kill off sim alone. Not only that but wt SIM doesn't make war thunder as much money as the other gamemodes. Ngl but it feels like gaijin has been slowly killing SIM over the years. Either way I hope gaijin doesn't kill it off, it has a lot of potential.
The only reason why I don’t play sim is because everytime I get into a dogfight with someone they just turn good so without losing speed and by the time I merge with them there already on my 6 and I don’t know how also I’m a console player PS5 but tbh I do agree that sim is pretty broken
But in Air Realistic Battles are way more fun and I do way better
I think you never had a good 1 vs. 1 fight in Air SIM. It's the only place where this can happend.
SIM Air is the only enyoable mode in the moment, where the meta in Air RB are this 16 vs. 16 meatballs after 3min in the middle of the map.
Problems:
Air RB:
The maps are to small for 16 vs. 16 or the number of players is to big (you can't react to all the missles (specially in High and toptier)
To less targets and Missions for CAS and specially there should be Bombertargets only
Ground RB:
To much CAS at the same time in the air possible
To weak SPAA missles (excludet: Pantsir, Strela,Typ 81C and TY90)
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I'll have to come back and watch this later, but in primis i feel like removing a gamemode from a game that doesn't have lots of 'em doesn't sound like a good idea to me, what i have alwais desired for this game is not X new aircraft or Y balance change, but just some new gamemodes to freshen up the situation, since in my opinion is getting quite stagnating.
This said if war thunder didn't have sim i probably wouldn't play it as much/at all.
So you're saying it's fair to have one player being in SB mode and another in RB? Like this would be like stealing a church man... SB doesn't need to die, we just need more modes... Maybe another SB mode with markers - this is by far the biggest problem i have... The reason why i don't play SB and DCS(even though i like the concept of it and i do have purchased planes for DCS) is that by the time i know someone is friend or foe i either missed my chance to get the kill or i killed a friendly... 2 days ago i thought i was over-reacting and i joined SB with my mirage 2000 only to get 2 teamkills in under 5 minutes... I was ready to j out and die but i got kicked instead 😅 Turns out we had Su-27s both on our team and the enemy team... How TF am i supposed to recognize who is who in a furball? At least make it so that once you are actively looking on someone and he's within say 10km in jets you get a blue or red marker.. No range no nothing... Just is he a friend or an enemy... DCS is way more serious and that's what's putting me off... Like you need someone to carry you for your first months and i just haven't found that someone yet 😅
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I play on xbox series s with a HOTAS, I only play Air Sim. Real Air Battle is too Arcady for my taste, Arcade is even worse, you don’t even to get to fly, the instructor is flying or at least assisting all the time. Also using mouse pointing is not flying at all. ASB is a bit more realistic and takes a bit more skill and knowledge and is much less forgiving. If ASB is not there I will not be playing WT at all.
Napes sims the bees knees its where the real veterans are in this game the og players
I enjoy sim because I play on console and don’t have access to those other games you mentioned. Besides that, I actually think it’s pretty fun
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WarThunder sim is the best way to play a ww2 flight sim, dcs is extremely good for sim from about middle cold war, and later. But before that its absolute dog shit.
Another thing is your entire argument revolves around the fact that gaijin should not segment their playerbase, there is no need to kill off one game mode. WarThunder has an average player peak of about 80,000 active players, probably less than a 500 of those play sim on a regular basis. Air ab and rb are not struggling enough to warrant killing of sim to combine them
What about a mode like Heli PVE for air.
Not a fan of the idea but maybe it could work. Depends on the implementation. Seems like it would be easy to abuse.
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for me sim was the way to level up my planes way faster then with rb mode....going into a lobby with sim and rb players at the same time is the stupidest idea ever....imagine a pantsir has rb settings and you are flying a jet with no indicators, you would be dead 2 sec after spawning....but there is a good point in the video...they should make sim experience better for the players so it is more fun to play and rewarding for new players so they get into sim....
In sim high tier just everyone sticks to the ground and you will eat an AIM missile anyway...they have to change that very hard...no matter if you fly 10 meters over ground or 5 you will still eat that missile from the guy that will see you everywhere....this is just stupid and kills the fun
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I don't agree we should kill the sim mode. The Current sim mode is great, it just needs more improvements to make it more realistic.
I'm a main air sim player, from 2.7 to 12.7 , spending a lot of money and time on it as well. Compared to DCS and IL2, I enjoy the causal sim mode in WT more.
Combining RB and sim mode? Hell No
It is unfair to sim players who use the joystick to fly and aim
as a dedicated SIM player what changes would you like to see made?
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Yea as others have said its a bad take. Why the need to kill sim why not just add EC back to air RB. Like you said the player draw isnt an issue its not like its taking players away from other modes.
I must recently got a HOTAS and started playing SIM and honestly find it a blast. Its simulated enough to where you get the basic sense of flying the plane you are, but not the crazy intense fidelity like DCS. It is honestly imo the best sim there is for those who want that sim experience without the need to have a beastly machine to play DCS. And the hours and hours of learning how to even fly the plane and be proficient with it. And the cost of getting a decent hotas setup to even be able to play it effectively.
I really hope SIM is here to stay. I havent had any issues finding decently full matches. And really dont want a full lobby maybe like half or 3/4 is perfect or else its just a furball but locked in first person.
I'd argue sim is better because of the lower playerbase.... where as rb is like you said 16v16. sim can be more of a 5v5 on a larger map most of the time. I know gaijin says they'll fix rb player sizes but until that happens sim is just so much less frustrating and random if you learn to read the rwr (watch a 10 min video). I can't dodge 7 amraams while dogfighting in rb. I guess rb is too much of a cluster f**k for me. But that's again, a whole other issue they are "working on".
No ! Warthunder AIR SIM is fun. It's just as realistic as it needs to be for me. I have a joystick and i had way more fun in wt air sim than in DCS bc it still feels just a bit more "arcade-y" . I don't really care about RP and credits and i enjoy hunting farming bots who hardly count as players.
Not only you can fly way more easily in wt sim than in DCS you have a looot more planes and maps in wt, also its great that i can take out those sam planes and tanks i use in sim to play in realistic where i can have a different expeience.
I disagree with you and i don't think these changes would benefit anybody and i would sure stop playing if one of the best things were to be taken out of the game and many others would do the same.
You can have your opinion and i respect it don't get me wrong but as you can see in the comment section most people wouldn't like to have it "killed"
I'm finding out from the comments that there are a lot of players that want a SIM experience that isn't as hardcore or expensive as DCS. Thanks for your comment.
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That realistic and simple is cringe you die so easy
With over 200 comments (and counting) I have decided to make a video response to try to cover everyone's comments - ruclips.net/video/uZaiu_IGquY/видео.html
I hear what your saying but why cant we still have sim and rb ec and rb (well call it "dogfight)
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I quite literally only play sim, and i enjoy it because its simpler to get into than dcs and still fun and sort of arcady. And i do want to get Il2 strumove but i am also wanting to play with jets which is not Il2s focus at all, i am not sure if they have jets or not but it seems like its only props
And you should try play sim when there is no events it is actually more fun because people genuinely pvp and play the game
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Air sim is all I play. Kaiman0420 and I play on PS5 with controller.
Fair enough. Are you happy with it? What BR range? What improvements would make it better? Truly interested.
Top tier, israel as a main. Netz, Baz, and Barak. I just feel that they have been slowly preparing us for a real sim experience. That's why they implemented drop tanks.....I believe really large maps are on the way.
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