As a mechanical engineer I can verify that I learned more from your RUclips videos and ventilation course that I ever did at school on these subjects. I went into software, but my degree itself didn’t prepare me very much for home performance work (other than to teach the basics of heat flow etc at a theoretical level)
The mechanical engineering field is so wide that the undergraduate curriculum almost has to be like the Platte River, a mile wide and an inch deep. I did have to take a Thermodynamics class as one of the options for knowledge of other fields as part of my Computer Engineering degree. The professor was really nice to those of us in Computer Engineering by allowing us to substitute Information Theory while everyone else was studying steam boilers and entropy. My mechanical engineering friend went to GE lighting, where they modified the design of the light bulbs to make them cheaper and the machines that made the light bulbs. Then one can marvel at the cardboard box designs another MechE designed, all the cuts and folds to make a box come together with tape. It's really a wide range of foundations which have to be laid to show going into any of these specializations.
@@johnhaller5851 I’d agree, it’d be hard to prepare an engineer in practical terms for what they do. I remember doing a manual pump calculation sizing after graduating where my first boss patted me on the head and said “good job, but next time use this sizing guide and it’ll take half as long” lol. In my career I’ve done water pump stations for oil sands, land development for residential subdivisions, aerial photography in construction, geomatics work in Africa, oil and gas sour emergency response zones, and now I’m a software engineering manager at Shopify doing ecommerce. Woe to any program that would cover all that lol The best thing my degree did was remove the mental block to the notion that it’s someone else’s job to figure stuff out. So @HomePerformance that’s why I loved your ventilation course…may as well dig into the details since most folks I’d spoken to here in Calgary kept pushing me in other directions. It’s fun…never bored lol
Ross is right in regard to engineering school; it's mostly theoretical and a mile wide and one inch deep. I feel lucky I went to school at a smaller campus that catered more to working adults rather than typical college kids, so we had a more practical environment, so to speak.
Hi Corbett! On Oct 30th Architect Steve Baczek put out a RUclips video called "Check Out the Inside" in which he gave a tour of a house he designed. At minute 7:10 he shows how they installed slots in the wooden cover around the range hood (above the units capture area) to allow for make-up air to enter the kitchen. What do you think of this design and their location for the make-up air vents?
As a Mechanical Engineering Technologist in Ontario (3yr College Diploma) with 20 years working experience, I can confirm there is a SERIOUS lack of practical application in post-secondary education. In college we do a fair amount of hands-on (CAD/CAM, fluid power, PLC programming etc.) but there’s not enough time to become fluent. At least there’s some exposure. Engineers here (4yr University degree) see way less hands-on than Technologists. Much deeper into the theory, which is great for the few who will apply it, not so much for those who won’t. Either way, no one comes out of school fully qualified to do much. Anyone will need considerable training and experience to be effective in just about any field, and Building Science is no exception.
One of the reasons why HVAC is not aggressively sized in commercial is because of the liability if it doesn't work which falls on the engineering firm. Commercial systems have staging inherently built into them such as multiple compressors each with unloaders, VAV boxes, pneumatic dampers and multiple units serving one area. Variable Speed motors, pumps and compressors were a staple of commercial / industrial long before they trickled down to residential. An indoor coil could stay under dewpoint all day as it staged up and down. Because of internal loads, cooling ran even on mild days. By the time the heat needed to come on, there wasn't as much moisture in the air. And the hyper focus on energy efficiency wasn't as strong for many years until the 90s. One of the reason why I started in industrial and now do 100% residential is that there is no shortage of designers in the former but a huge shortage of them in the latter despite the fact that non engineers can dedign residential systems. I've designed HvAC systems and consulted for several mechanical engineers as well. While they can hold their own on fluid dynamics, as you said, the application of that in residential air (a fluid) dynamics is not their strength. Great video!
I can think of one reason to want a colder bedroom to sleep in that doesn't involve over-compensating for a poorly planned HVAC system. I sleep better with a heavy blanket and heavy blankets tend to be uncomfortably warm if I don't drop the temp. Humidity is almost certainly a factor there, but I don't think it's the primary factor. Not trying to nitpick your process though, just working through things for me to keep in mind in the future when my wife and I build.
@@D2O2 Back in my bachelor days, my best sleep was dead of winter with the windows open and the HVAC vent closed. Pretty sure my bedroom was in the 40's
3:00 in Florida, there are provisions/exception to this rule. It is in the Florida Building Code. I am not a licensed architect or engineer, but am the architect, engineer, material specifier, and drafting designer on my home build. I am almost done with the drawings. 🙏🙏🙏 My local municipality tried telling me that I need the drawings sign/seal by a licensed professional. I showed them the provisions in the building code and they backed off of me. We will see what happens when I submit them for approval. 😅 I do have an engineer who will review my drawings and stamp them, if need be.
17:00 in the commercials construction world, the End User (if not a National Brand) will engage an Architect for their project design and will contract the Architect to manage the Structural and MEP disciplines, and sometimes Civil. This is the more costly method, but from a general contractors perspective, this is the best method, because this typically produces the best set of drawings. Other times, the End User will contract the Architect to manage the Structural and MEP Disciplines, and then engage Civil separately, which is fine, but often times, the water, sewer, and drainage systems are not coordinated well with the architectural and structural systems which can lead to busts in the drawings and problems in the field during construction. If you have a good general contractor, they will catch these busts in the drawings before they become a big expensive problem. Other times, the End User will engage and contract the Architect, Structural, MEP, and Civil disciplines separately / independently, in an attempt to control the entire project and process, and to reduce the upfront design costs. This is the low cost, cheapest method, but from a general contractors perspective, this is the absolute worst method!!! Unless the End User has a lot of experience and has the skills to manage all the disciplines, the drawings are trash! They are typically full of errors and not coordinated very well between the disciplines! This leads to a lot of RFIs, schedule delays, and change orders. The End User ends up spending more money and time, than if they had contracted the Architect to manage it all from the beginning. Landscape and irrigation are often times managed by Civil. But can be engaged and contracted separately / independently. If engaged separately, the landscaping and irrigation are sometimes not coordinated with the water, sewer, and drainage systems. So you have trees on top of water mains / lines, drainage pipes, in easements, not code compliant with setbacks on fire hydrants, and other issues like that. Once you get past alllll that and you have a set of working drawings, either a bid set, permit set, or construction set, the End User will either ask the Architect for general contractor / builder recommendations, or will use their own if they already have preferred contractors to work with. There are several other variations of getting to this point. The End User could also try to play general contractor, which has all sorts of other issues in that. Just depends on how the End User wants to go about constructing their project.
So agree that any designer or engineer should first have boots on the ground and learn the real world not just the theory it would save us all a lot of headaches.
As a mechanical engineer I can verify that I learned more from your RUclips videos and ventilation course that I ever did at school on these subjects. I went into software, but my degree itself didn’t prepare me very much for home performance work (other than to teach the basics of heat flow etc at a theoretical level)
Wow, that's awesome to hear (and sad too I think)- thanks for the high five Adam!
The mechanical engineering field is so wide that the undergraduate curriculum almost has to be like the Platte River, a mile wide and an inch deep. I did have to take a Thermodynamics class as one of the options for knowledge of other fields as part of my Computer Engineering degree. The professor was really nice to those of us in Computer Engineering by allowing us to substitute Information Theory while everyone else was studying steam boilers and entropy.
My mechanical engineering friend went to GE lighting, where they modified the design of the light bulbs to make them cheaper and the machines that made the light bulbs. Then one can marvel at the cardboard box designs another MechE designed, all the cuts and folds to make a box come together with tape. It's really a wide range of foundations which have to be laid to show going into any of these specializations.
@@johnhaller5851 I’d agree, it’d be hard to prepare an engineer in practical terms for what they do. I remember doing a manual pump calculation sizing after graduating where my first boss patted me on the head and said “good job, but next time use this sizing guide and it’ll take half as long” lol.
In my career I’ve done water pump stations for oil sands, land development for residential subdivisions, aerial photography in construction, geomatics work in Africa, oil and gas sour emergency response zones, and now I’m a software engineering manager at Shopify doing ecommerce. Woe to any program that would cover all that lol
The best thing my degree did was remove the mental block to the notion that it’s someone else’s job to figure stuff out. So @HomePerformance that’s why I loved your ventilation course…may as well dig into the details since most folks I’d spoken to here in Calgary kept pushing me in other directions. It’s fun…never bored lol
@@johnhaller5851Yes, Mechanical Engineering is one of the oldest and broadest branches of Engineering.
Great conversation Corbett. It's been my experience with mechanical engineers that they don't know much about building science.
Just because they lack application experience, doesn't mean they don't have the knowledge of principles necessary to do so.
Is he related to Richard Trethewey from this old house he was the Master of explaining the complications of the Mechanicals and the placements.
Yep, that's his dad. Super guy.
Ross is right in regard to engineering school; it's mostly theoretical and a mile wide and one inch deep. I feel lucky I went to school at a smaller campus that catered more to working adults rather than typical college kids, so we had a more practical environment, so to speak.
Hi Corbett! On Oct 30th Architect Steve Baczek put out a RUclips video called "Check Out the Inside" in which he gave a tour of a house he designed. At minute 7:10 he shows how they installed slots in the wooden cover around the range hood (above the units capture area) to allow for make-up air to enter the kitchen.
What do you think of this design and their location for the make-up air vents?
Perfect timing Ryan- Ross snd I actually talked about this exact detail and the vid will come soon.
As a Mechanical Engineering Technologist in Ontario (3yr College Diploma) with 20 years working experience, I can confirm there is a SERIOUS lack of practical application in post-secondary education. In college we do a fair amount of hands-on (CAD/CAM, fluid power, PLC programming etc.) but there’s not enough time to become fluent. At least there’s some exposure.
Engineers here (4yr University degree) see way less hands-on than Technologists. Much deeper into the theory, which is great for the few who will apply it, not so much for those who won’t.
Either way, no one comes out of school fully qualified to do much. Anyone will need considerable training and experience to be effective in just about any field, and Building Science is no exception.
Very cool. I didn't know RT had an engineering firm.
One of the reasons why HVAC is not aggressively sized in commercial is because of the liability if it doesn't work which falls on the engineering firm. Commercial systems have staging inherently built into them such as multiple compressors each with unloaders, VAV boxes, pneumatic dampers and multiple units serving one area. Variable Speed motors, pumps and compressors were a staple of commercial / industrial long before they trickled down to residential. An indoor coil could stay under dewpoint all day as it staged up and down. Because of internal loads, cooling ran even on mild days. By the time the heat needed to come on, there wasn't as much moisture in the air. And the hyper focus on energy efficiency wasn't as strong for many years until the 90s.
One of the reason why I started in industrial and now do 100% residential is that there is no shortage of designers in the former but a huge shortage of them in the latter despite the fact that non engineers can dedign residential systems.
I've designed HvAC systems and consulted for several mechanical engineers as well. While they can hold their own on fluid dynamics, as you said, the application of that in residential air (a fluid) dynamics is not their strength. Great video!
I can think of one reason to want a colder bedroom to sleep in that doesn't involve over-compensating for a poorly planned HVAC system. I sleep better with a heavy blanket and heavy blankets tend to be uncomfortably warm if I don't drop the temp. Humidity is almost certainly a factor there, but I don't think it's the primary factor. Not trying to nitpick your process though, just working through things for me to keep in mind in the future when my wife and I build.
I personally prefer a 64-66 degF and 40-50% RH room to sleep in.
@@D2O2 Back in my bachelor days, my best sleep was dead of winter with the windows open and the HVAC vent closed. Pretty sure my bedroom was in the 40's
Thanks gents.
Totally agree there is no internship for engineering. Down scaling to residential is not taught.
3:00 in Florida, there are provisions/exception to this rule. It is in the Florida Building Code.
I am not a licensed architect or engineer, but am the architect, engineer, material specifier, and drafting designer on my home build. I am almost done with the drawings. 🙏🙏🙏
My local municipality tried telling me that I need the drawings sign/seal by a licensed professional. I showed them the provisions in the building code and they backed off of me. We will see what happens when I submit them for approval. 😅
I do have an engineer who will review my drawings and stamp them, if need be.
17:00 in the commercials construction world, the End User (if not a National Brand) will engage an Architect for their project design and will contract the Architect to manage the Structural and MEP disciplines, and sometimes Civil. This is the more costly method, but from a general contractors perspective, this is the best method, because this typically produces the best set of drawings.
Other times, the End User will contract the Architect to manage the Structural and MEP Disciplines, and then engage Civil separately, which is fine, but often times, the water, sewer, and drainage systems are not coordinated well with the architectural and structural systems which can lead to busts in the drawings and problems in the field during construction.
If you have a good general contractor, they will catch these busts in the drawings before they become a big expensive problem.
Other times, the End User will engage and contract the Architect, Structural, MEP, and Civil disciplines separately / independently, in an attempt to control the entire project and process, and to reduce the upfront design costs. This is the low cost, cheapest method, but from a general contractors perspective, this is the absolute worst method!!! Unless the End User has a lot of experience and has the skills to manage all the disciplines, the drawings are trash! They are typically full of errors and not coordinated very well between the disciplines! This leads to a lot of RFIs, schedule delays, and change orders. The End User ends up spending more money and time, than if they had contracted the Architect to manage it all from the beginning.
Landscape and irrigation are often times managed by Civil. But can be engaged and contracted separately / independently. If engaged separately, the landscaping and irrigation are sometimes not coordinated with the water, sewer, and drainage systems. So you have trees on top of water mains / lines, drainage pipes, in easements, not code compliant with setbacks on fire hydrants, and other issues like that.
Once you get past alllll that and you have a set of working drawings, either a bid set, permit set, or construction set, the End User will either ask the Architect for general contractor / builder recommendations, or will use their own if they already have preferred contractors to work with.
There are several other variations of getting to this point. The End User could also try to play general contractor, which has all sorts of other issues in that. Just depends on how the End User wants to go about constructing their project.
great This Old House crossover episode
👍🏽👍🏽
So agree that any designer or engineer should first have boots on the ground and learn the real world not just the theory it would save us all a lot of headaches.