If Ivy or Hortensia's unique jobs gave them the Mystical sub type instead of Flying, there would be just so many more options for them with bond rings. Flier bond ring bonuses mostly suck.
it's unfortunate considering they have the best maneuverability in the game being capable of flying over terrain other units cannot reach to attack and can sometimes tuck themselves away through or over tiles only flyers can cross through. they also don't get hit by terrain hazards and movement penalties.
@@ayylmao633 While this is true, someone like Chloe for example would get the Luin lance as a weapon in a flying class since it's damage goes up based off of your speed. Griffin Knight Chloe is especially fast in this class.
@@maiku7648 Camilla benefits someone who isn't already a flier the most, because she lets them move like a flier while engaged without any of the flier weaknesses. And her dragon veins and flier bonuses are basically the same as Corrin's... which is to say still much better when used by a Mystical sub type lol. If you were going to use Camilla with Ivy, in spite of the obvious flavor choice of Lindwurm, she'd still get the most benefit as a Sage.
basically this is a question of: - Is Sage!Ivy better than Lindwurm!Ivy - Is Sage!Ivy a better Sage, than compared against Sage!NotIvy if both statements are true, it can make sense to reclass ivy to sage. OR - Is Sage!Ivy fun? if this is true than it doesn't matter But I do think this video could just be talking about byleth + mystics.
@@alemfi there comes a point in the game where you have so many emblem rings, your biggest team building problem comes from how best to use them. I think the best question to be asking is, “is Lindwurm Ivy with ____ emblem better than Sage Ivy with Byleth/Corrin?” and, “do I have a better user of these rings, or a better ring for Ivy?”. Lindwurm Ivy in a vacuum will always be better than Sage, but when considering your full team comp and Emblem combinations, the answer becomes much harder to find. In my (second maddening) run, I’ve been using Sage Ivy with Corrin because my other sages are already holding Byleth and Dire Thunder, so making her a Sage to utilize Draconic Vein makes her more useful than as a Lindwurm. I plan to pass Corrin off to a certain spoiler unit to have the Dragon bonus, and reclassing Ivy back to Lindwurm and having her hold Celica when the time comes.
Yeah, the video is explaining why a strong magic user is strong with sages, but it should also have showed when or why is preferable using ivy in that role over some else.
Actually Lindwurm at base has 1 more mag than sage, so it the 5% extra growth will actually need the 20 levels to pull ahead, basically end game. This is a nice recap of what the sage class can do but generally you’re better off putting someone else in sage and also running Ivy as Lindwurm as she’s the only offensive oriented mage flier.
sage also gets a passive to boost damage based on the number of tome users, which 4-5 range allows you to usually have at least one of, negating the 1 more magic in most cases, and surpassing it in others, also flying is overrated when 5 range accomplishes much the same. the issue as others have stated is that ivy and horts base classes are not mystical which isnt great, and ivys base class skill will usually be less damage than sages throughout the course of a play thru
You can arguably sort of kit out Hortensia offensively, it's resource-draining as heck though. Griffin Knight Citrinne/Jean/Anna can also do it pretty decently, with Citrinne being the easiest to do it with and Anna/Jean being better at it in the long run.
I understand what you are saying about Thyrsus and your preference of Sage over Lindwurm, but there are a lot of characters I would seal to Sage before considering Ivy. I think Pandreo, Anna, Jean, and even Citrinne are all significantly better choices than Ivy.
Don't forget Chloé! I think a lot of people sleep on Stage/Mage Knight Chloé even though her magic is her bigger growth and her base magic is pretty solid. For reference if you made everyone a sage she'd be the 7th fastest and the 6th strongest. (With Bologne) Which doesn't sound incredible, but the faster ones aren't necessarily stronger, the stronger aren't faster The only Sage that completely outclassed Chloé as Sage offensively is Pandreo
Maybe SLIGHTLY BETTER in some aspects. Anna is somewhat high investment, Jean is very high, Citrinne is so/so, Pandreo I agree actually :) I never said she was the best sage though, I've been running her on Sage to test it out and it seems to be good, I have Anna on Mage Knight for a team comp reason in this playthrough.
You can also just straight up out range the wyrm units with Thrysus + Thoron. And a lot of those units are locked in place by the map so you can just sit outside of their range and poke them to death.
It’s fun if you want to use Ivy but not Lindwurm, but it’s not unique to her. Pandreo I think would do better as they have very comparable stats but he has better naturally build and dex+build growth to handle heavy tomes like Bolganone or Nova. I think making best use of Lindwurm is key for bringing Ivy to her full potential. She has access to B staves like Rescue while most Griffins don’t. Unlike her sister she can actually do damage as a utility unit. For late game carry builds Grasping Void+Nova is a heck of a combo, even with her low dex, if you pump her speed up with Speedtaker. And comparing her to other flying carries, she’s also unique in that she has great 1-2 range damage she can one round with. While wyverns and griffins need to use melee weapons for their main damage option, and even Levin Sword Griffins are going to be weaker.
Question: Why ivy, and not Anna? Right now, I'm using ivy as a dodgetank flying diver with Veronica for the Mag boost, and reprisal - but this is really cool.
Anna's one of the fastest mages. This stacks really well with the Chaos mode skill and generally higher speed stats on mage knight, to produce an unit that can double a wide range of opponents, including with Alacrity.
I pretty much came to the same conclusion. Flying Ivy is fantastic throughout Solm, but Mythical Class Perks from Byleth and Corrin are just too good to pass up. I'm actually running 4 Sages at the moment and I don't even think that's overkill. Stalling with Flame Wall and besieging with 4 Thorons works on just about everything. Also love how Byleth makes Crit eng Elsurge a real powerhouse
Sage + Byleth is good, but other units can do this build as well and arguably better than Ivy can. Citrinne has higher mag than Ivy, so she's better for Thoron nuking, and Pandreo has better speed so he doesn't need speedtaker and speed + X in order to double reliably with Bolganone. Plus, Citrinne only needs a master seal and Pandreo only needs a second seal to get into sage. Ivy needs both a master seal AND a second seal to become a sage. Plus Lindwurm is the only offensive mage flier class in the game, so nobody else can replicate what Lindwurm Ivy can do. Imo it makes more sense to run both Lindwurm Ivy and also a Byleth sage.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I don't have a special setup for Lindwurm Ivy or anything. But the fact that she's the only offensive flying mage class is a valuable and unique niche that nobody else can replicate. It has all the same tradeoffs as any flying unit does, and there are many scenarios where a flier can ignore terrain and reach places that a foot locked unit can't. Just as one example, I used Ivy to fly over the water in the Leif paralogue and snipe the speedwing holder before anyone else could reach him, and then canter back onto the water out of range of all the enemies. I've watched a lot of your content and I know you know the value of flying units. Ivy has those same benefits, but also targets res in a game where many (most?) enemies have lower res than defense. I also haven't tried it myself, but I know people swear by using Corrin on Ivy. Flying 6 range movement + 3 range tomes allows you to very easily snipe and lock down groups of enemies with Dreadful Aura. Hortensia can also do this, but you might want her staffbotting with Micaiah instead, and Ivy has better bulk to take advantage of the +HP that you get for equipping Corrin. My point is not that sages are bad, just that using Ivy as a sage limits your options. Running sage Ivy with Byleth gives you all the benefits of a Byleth sage, but locks you out of using an offensive mage flier. Whereas if you give Byleth to a different sage, you get all those benefits AND also the unique benefits of a flying mage as well.
@@Krizzah47 Yeah on my last run I had Lyn on Ivy for midgame to patch up her speed, but once she could afford it, I inherited Speedtaker and Speed + 3 and gave her Sigurd instead for Canter. Ivy + Sigurd has 7 move, so she has an effective range of 8-9 with Bolganone and 8-10 with Thoron every turn. Meanwhile a Byleth sage will have 5 move and so will have 6-9 range Bolganone and 6-10 range Thoron, but only for 3-4 turns while engaged. Byleth sage has the notable benefit of being able to attack 3-range enemies without risking a counterattack, which is definitely really nice. But again, probably better suited to a unit that can't take a hit in retaliation, unlike Ivy who has pretty good bulk and can afford to take a hit. Sigurd on Ivy is arguably a waste of his engage weapons and override, but I never found Sigurd's engage weapons that great anyway and override is pretty situational so I only sometimes missed it. To me, the ability to speed stack Ivy, free up Lyn, and still have Canter on Ivy was far more valuable.
Thrysus also turns Elsurge into a 3 range guaranteed nuke which can be helpful for hitting high speed units like swordmasters or patching up mages with meh dex like ivy.
Oh that's a neat idea. Ngl, this is actually the most convincing argument for sage Ivy I've seen in this thread. Although other sages likely just have better hit rates to begin with anyway so they don't need single-minded to patch it up.
Not having the Elusia sisters on their prf class feels deeply wrong, I'm not doing that ever lol Oh and if you want a good laugh, promote Ivy to Hero just to see the outfit...
@@IcedCoffeeGaming true, it's just that... it doesn't feel right, you see? x) I'm all for testing new things, I plan to try out martial master Rosado for my 7th run! Oh and I also went for swordmaster hortensia on one of my previous runs for fun and uuuh yea, didn't work out too well, who would have guessed
My beef with this idea is that you can do it on really any other sage while not losing the flying mage that normal characters like Anna, Pandreo or other Sage options can't pull off (but can run this exact same idea without losing the option). I am personally running Anna on Sage for Thyrsus and for now Ivy is just holding a Dire Thunder as a Lindwurm (gave Lyn to a Warrior Etie because I love shooting myself in the foot like that).
Here is my thinking: Bonded Shield Cav squad: More durable without bonded shield in general due to losing Flyer Weakness. Anna on Mage Knight, has better base SPD/SPD passive and 1 more BLD making anna able to more easily double (before speedtaking) to 1 round while bonded. Ivy on Sage is an easy transition to make, with the new Cav Bonded team comp I really want sieges so I want ranged poke, sure you could run Pandreo instead, the point of this video isn't that Ivy is the best sage, or that Lindwurm is bad, I think there are pros/cons to both and both depend on team comp. I have used Lindwurm on 4 maddening runs, I am fully aware of where it is good/bad. I still run flying units, but fewer of them, and they play off of the bonded shield army that also attacks things on the flanks. The other idea is Thoron Corrin Hortensia for staff utility, fire, and super poking enemies with Thoron and freezing small groups. Ideally I don't waste her turns using fire vein but instead keep freezing/nuking with the dancer siege combo to kill flankers/stragglers and the 2-3 Wyverns on the team clean up damage/kills and dive. The cavs can pop off and dive as well as needed, and excess cavs can rotate/dive. Also long term I will have two off tanks to hold flanks so the sages can have barriers on top of just out ranging incoming enemies.
im currently running a vajra-mushti/lunar brace build on alear, as punching with divine dragon is a one round refill, he gets to be engaged all the time, and i get maximum goddess dances, while fixing his mid ass damage output
Dude just wanna say your videos are awesome and extremely helpful. I made my first playthrough on maddening harder than it should have been on myself because I didn't know what characters to invest in or how to use them effectively, and now I'm currently on my second run using your unit guides and it's a lot more enjoyable lol.
2:55 Sage has less base magic than Lindwurm. You lose 1 base mag going into sage for 5 extra growth over Lindwurm, meaning you need 20 levels in sage to get the same magic, so this is kind of a non-point.
but also gain a passive to boost damage based on nearby tome users, of which there are many, and in his playthru, even more. so if you even have 1 tome user near her (which is likely thanks to 5 range) you dont actually lose out on any damage, but have a higher growth and a chance for even more damage with more nearby tome users
The funny thing is that I used to put Byleth on Ivy, but never thought about sage and forgot Thyrsus was in the game. Right now I need Byleth on Allear as I need all of the stats I can get right now, but will definitely try this on future runs.
@AnimeSquirrel so you'd have 2? I don't think it's boring, especially since Chloe doesn't use swords and would likely play entirely different, and you could always just use Griffen knight for the better growths then go into sword master late game
Comments are like "It's not Ivy, it's Mystical" but Corrin!Mystical and Thyrsus have enough value where if you don't have a Mystical unit to drive them, Ivy fits the bill well. Ivy can't ORKO in Maddening without Speedtaker in Lindwurm, so if your other casters are Mage Knights for ORKO stuff and you want to run Ivy, she's as competent in Sage as she is Lindwurm -flying.
HighPriest!Ivy may be more bespoke, as her innate Tome gives her A Rank Tomes and S Rank Staves (and fists for breaks/engage recharge?/cope). This mostly matters if you want multiple A Rank Staff (Entrap) users and/or don't want to run Hortensia. Sage will have better Mag and Spd/Bld though.
Ivy is the character I've been bashing my head against a wall to figure out an alternate class and tbh it hasn't presented itself. I've thought about changing her to other classes then changing her back to lindwurm, but they end up not really helping her stats too much and usually hurting her. Lindwurm is just such a unique and good class with awful dexterity that can't really be solved by mage classes (don't think any of them boost dex growth), but if you switch to like sage or high priest or whatever you start missing out on lindwurms big boost to defenses and speed. I just think she's best on her main class maybe with an accuracy engraving. Also is it just me or does anyone else always end up with lucina on her? I'm 4 playthroughs in and it's always lucina.
Why not reverse Anna and Ivy's roles here? That way you get to make use of Byleths Lck increase + Anna's Make a Killing, Ivy's higher tank stats, and Ivy's Single Minded (by targetting the most recent enemy that attacked you). I get that it's boring to just run Byleth on Sage Anna again but it feels too good to not be optimal. For what it's worth, 2 units that pincer attacked Anna each had a 33% chance of killing her in the video. It's nice that Anna is one rounding enemies on EP, something that Ivy might not be able to do, but killing enemies sometimes just opens up the spot for another one to hit you again.
Not really, Anna does require setup and taking XP from other units early on unless you blatantly exploit the game by staff XP farming. What does Lindwurm accomplish specifically that makes it better than sage? Flying is great, sure, but without Bonded Shield on flyer squad don't these do the same thing in that you hit distant targets with magic? Honestly I prefer dancing a siege weapon than having another flying unit, my 2-3 wyverns dive enough/put in enough work I don't feel Lindwurm is needed usually. I've done 4 maddening runs on Lindwurm and 2 on sage, I am starting to prefer sage for the flexibility/range. IMO Anna is best on Mage Knight, it helps her SPD/BLD and enables Levin Sword/Bolganone better than Sage does on her. I'm also starting to think Cavalry Bonded is meta because of how much versatility you get, you can 100% bond so many different classes due to Cavalry having the most class options. For diving, Lindwurm Ivy is best, though most maddening maps heavily prevent this with enemy density, more or less nullifying a dive advantage.
I've been considering this on my next maddening run. I actually prefer her art on Lindwyrm, but she definitely looks better as a sage than the loli mages🙃
I wanted to try this because of the enemy 3 range weapons, but then realized that Ivy has a ton of res and doesn't really mind thorons and longbows are very weak and inaccurate. Oh no, I'll leave alive like 3 dudes out of 20... Good, maybe the weak ones can eat this time.
Wouldn’t it be better to have anna on sage with byleth so she can have more procs on her personal with luck growth? And maybe have ivy be the bonded horse thing? I know divine pulse helps with ivy’s misses but divine pulse i think costs 500 sp for the max level, i think its still a shame to waste ivy’s flying mage since its the only one in the game, and hortensia of course so wouldn’t it make more sense to have another unit like pandreo or citrinne lindon be mage knight since they don’t have access to special classes.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Thanks, I really wanna try that in my next maddening run, it's looked awesome. Also your Corrin Fire strats to stall the enemy, has really helped on some of the tougher maps. As always keep up the awesome content, I keep learning new things.
It seems like Sage Ivy is so legit just because of Byleth. If you’re putting Byleth on another unit (let’s just say a speedy flier for Luin and boosted levin sword damage to really differentiate) then what else does Sage Ivy bring to the table? Is she still better off as a Sage without Byleth, or should she stick to Lindwurm?
Yes? The point was moreso just asking if Sage had more advantages over Lindwurm if you took Byleth out of the equation, not removing emblems altogether from her
@@Coreyographed Ah sorry I misunderstood what you were asking I'd say yes, but more because mystic has more emblem synergy than fliers. When running Lindwurm the only thing I've seen so far is throwing Lyn on to patch the speed issues/decoys. But Lyn is so much stronger on other characters and she's highly desired Mystics can run Corrin, Byleth and Celica, The best I can think of with Lindwurm is Micaiah because she doesn't have significant synergies besides hortensia (but you know, if you don't want to run her then Micaiah can pretty much go on anyone)
Do you think taking Anna off of sage/byleth combo is worth the drop in economy? Her luck decreases quite a bit unless there are other luck giving emblems that she can make use of
you barely need her money on maddening, but if you want it theres like 4 other emblems with high luck, and argueably better options if all you care about is money for example, you could make anna a sniper with radiant bow and leif, cover units make his quad hit have a chance to drop 1000g based on luck, and light brand gives +10 luck luck boosting inherits are also some of the cheapest
I dont really like sage Ivy. It seems way more benefical to use Lindwurn and patch up her Dex and Speed to make use of the abillity. Im actually using General Diamant for the sake of variety and I think this is the same case, others can perform this role too or even better.
Do you think you’d be able to do a video on the alear/corrin combo? Its working really well for me on hard mode. Getting ready for my maddening run and I’m thinking of going with alear/corrin again for the utility but don’t know if alear has better uses. I will be doing a bonded shield strat but I’m building up the bond shield team so they have support synergy of their own
if you’re doing your own bonded shield team then you’ll want them to be majority fliers. The reason people run Lucina alear is because dragon increases blockrate to 90% from 80% which is really significant. I think the only other option is flying, which gives 100% block to all other fliers
Lindwurm and Sleipnir Rider I think should have 2 subtype just like if you Promote Clanne to Mage Knight Ivy's and Hortensia's Should be Flying and Mystical Clanne's Mage Knight Cavalry and Mystical
best use for byleth is on alear with a levin sword and for aoe dragon dance and dragon instruct while engaged, byleth gets moved over to SPOILER in the end game also, you are single hitting everything anyways, just use byleth not in a dumb way and thoron nuke everything at safety... this is why archer Anna is better with Claude's ring is because she nukes everything without getting hit with a radiant bow (which is C rank so you can place anna on anything that uses bows to gain use of radiant bow) and literally one shots every flier in the game the moment she hits level 10 to advance to a bow-using class and still fulfills the same thing as bolganone mage, but at 3 range
And then there's me, the unoptimized player who doesn't use Ivy at all because I hate her character. This definitely seems like a valid strat though, and in Engage most playstyles are workable as far as I know, with emblem rings giving such strong abilities and whatnot.
Interesting take, but I have to disagree with it. Imo Lindwurm is her best class. Flying utility is really strong especially with stuff like canter. Not being hindered by terrain allows you to attack/Heal from spots which a sage cant reach. Also having 1 extra move is also a plus. The biggest apeal of sage is the mythical bonuses with byleth which are good. Thyrsus is good, but imo not the best application. Besides goddess dance byleth has Instruct which can buff +3 stats (dragon) or +5 speed (covert), which funnily enough benefits Ivy much more than Thyrsus. For example a level 17/20 Ivy!Lindwurm has on average 21.60 spd ( 22 rounded up) and can't double great knight(19 spd) in ch. 20, but with Instruct she can. You can argue +3 speed would be enough, but why not both to get 8 spd to double more enemy types and also important to remember up to 8 units can get the speed buff. Having +2 range is good, letting 2 to 4 units hit spd benchmarks to double is better. Everytime you attack with the byleth user, at max 8 units lose out on the stats buffs. Without byleth sage only notable advantage would be +2 spd which is definitely not better than having flying and +1 move. Just wanted to state my opinion because discussing about things is fun. Tldr Lindwurm is better than sage. Byleth is much more suited on covert and dragon unit because of the stat bonuses, which are much better than thyrsus and without Thyrsus sage got nothing for it besides the +2 spd which are overshadowed by flying and +1 move from Lindwurm.
Honestly seems like a waste to me, when sage Anna or citrinne can easily take this role. Especially Anna can make use of Byleth ring so much more for the Extra luck and lindwurm isn't even a bad class to begin with
True, but I am running Anna on Mage Knight in this run so the ring is free :). Also I am thinking MK is Anna's best combat class due to the high speed/speed stacking. Anna has low BLD so Mage Knight helps offset this by improving her base SPD. It also gives her access to Levin Sword which can be used when silenced or used to break axes.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming leif is also a solid option on mage knight anna, up to 5 bld, vantage, some more weapon options for breaking. light brand also boost luck 10. especially if you are doing an all mage run and a running out of magical emblems like i am
i prefer ivy as a lindwurn with sigurd lv 20 and a thoron with a good engrave(like lyn,corrin or eirika engraves) plus put two or even 3 boots on her the ABSOLUTE HIT AND RUN UNIT!1/HARASSMENT UNIT!1
4 range is in fact broken and stupid. Especially paired with Canter. That was a big problem I had with 3 Houses. And I am super grateful that this type of option is extremely limited in Engage. I do agree with you that 4 range is better than flying. But flying is still excellent, and you're giving it up on both Ivy and Hortensia. Hortensia is presumably there to patch up her magic stat, as well as take advantage of Vein of Fire. But I think it would make a more sense to run Alear with Corrin as a Divine Dragon, for all of the Veins. Keep Ivy on Lindwurm, and run Hortensia (or better yet, Pandreo) as a sage with Byleth, and just give Lucina to somebody else. While I think sage Ivy has an advantage over Lindwurm, you're still giving up Ivy's most valuable unique property when you could have somebody else fulfill the Tharsis role without giving up Lindwurm. Sage Ivy I feel is for a team that would otherwise not have a mystic. As something of a side note, I don't understand why people think Hortensia is good. Expected classless stats at internal level 30 HP Bld Str Mag Dex Spd Def Res Lck Hortensia 13.4 1 7.2 9.2 15.85 16.5 7.75 18.05 16.5 Pandreo 22.4 6.1 4.7 12.2 16.3 17.3 7.1 19.7 13.2 Pandreo has Hortensia beat or nearly tied in every meaningful stat. Raising the level higher, Hortensia's defense advantage grows a bit, but it's still bad. Hortensia's personal skill is good, but you can get most of it's utility from any staff user with canter, and Pandreo's ability is incredibly strong in it's own right.
I prefer Hortensia over Pandreo for the staff range, his passive is good but I don't find mages to be that inaccurate. I also don't try to make my sages avoid tanks so aside from slightly better stats he kind of has no niche. On any class she can baby physic with any healing staff, on her unique class she is arguably the best staff utility in the game and combined with her staff range and canter, can skirt the edge of danger more effectively.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I haven't had trouble skirting enemy ranges with canter alone, so the extra staff range I've just found to be really overrated. Although I admit, it definitely has some value, especially before you get Sigurd back. In the rare instance Hortensia can skirt an attack Pandreo can't, Pandreo can generally survive the hit, and hit back. The stat differences I need to point out are a bit more than slight. Both wielding Bolganone as sages with an internal level of 30, Pandreo is 41 attack, 24 speed, Hortensia is 38 attack, 19 speed. Hortensia can try to keep up in the speed department by swapping to Elfire, 33 attack, 23 speed, or Excalibur, 32 attack 21 speed. But in a round of combat, she deals 3 less damage if neither can double, 6 less damage if they can both double with Bolganone, 16 less if she has to drop to Elfire (they have a 5 point speed gap with Bolganone, so expect this a lot.), and if she wants to match Pandreo's Bolganone speed, the only tomes she can use are Fire and Wind. In which case, she speed ties, but deals 13 less damage per strike. She joins 3 chapters later, unpromoteted, 3 internal levels higher, and even after using a master seal and second seal to get them to the same class, she'd still have worse stats than base Pandreo. Alternatively, if you still really want Hortensia for the +1 staff range, you could replace sage Ivy with sage Pandreo. He'll basically hit as hard, but faster and with higher resistance. I just think taking Hortensia out of the system would be far preferable to taking Ivy out of the system.
@@plentyofpaper Hortensia is a support unit. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that she's good at combat, let alone better than Pandreo. But she doesn't have to be good at combat to be a good unit. That's like saying that Seadall is bad because he doesn't do as much damage as Martial Master Chloe. Staves are really good in Engage, and Hortensia's personal skill and Sleipnir Rider's class skill perfectly synergize with a staffbot role. Sure you could use Ivy, Pandreo, or some other staff user and accomplish most of the same things, but then that's taking turns away from some of your most powerful player phase units. I'd rather have a unit dedicated to staff use full time to free up my powerful units to go kill things instead.
Honestly Citrinne does this better with her higher Magic stat and growth and Speedtaker fixing her speed issue she had Pre-Well update. Lindwurm is better imo for Utility purposes and Sages makes mages too frail, compared to Lindwurm having great defense and Hp stat.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Hearing you say this brings me tears of happiness. I rode for Citrinne with Thyrsus Day 1 and I am so happy how the Well has skyrocketed her usefulness. 🥲
This comment section is wild. Base on his Alear's name he's on his 7th file already. People in here are up in arms over Ivy on sage. Like crying over 1 mag and flying. After a few playthroughs people may want to try something different with their fav unit sometimes. Let his sage Ivy cook y'all.
I mean I get wanting to just try something different. I tried martial master Chloe for shits and giggles on my last run. And I was considering using sage Alear on my current run just for the ponytail and the sage drip, even though that's objectively a terrible idea. I think if he'd just said "I like Ivy, I wanna use her, but I'm tired of using Lindwurm so I'm trying sage instead" nobody would care. But this video is ostensibly made as a guide and it doesn't cover some of the important tradeoffs that people are discussing in the comments. Rebutting an argument isn't a personal attack, it's just fun to discuss the pros and cons of different strategies.
Seriously you tell us constantly how powerful flyers are and how bulky lindwurm and powerful lindwurm is so why on the ever living hell want to put this on ivy instead of the idk 5 potential sages in the game
Sage ivy is stupid as 90% of what is great about ivy is lindwyrm. It gives her +1mov, flying but most importantly a defence stat (switching to sage is -6 base and -15 growth). Lindwyrm ivy is the only Mage in the game who can take physical hits decently. This leads to her being able to enemy phase to an extent. Everything sage ivy can do another unit can do just as well e.g. (Anna, citrinne, pandreo, Celine)
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
If Ivy or Hortensia's unique jobs gave them the Mystical sub type instead of Flying, there would be just so many more options for them with bond rings. Flier bond ring bonuses mostly suck.
Yeah it sucks. I think that was their way of balancing flying.
it's unfortunate considering they have the best maneuverability in the game being capable of flying over terrain other units cannot reach to attack and can sometimes tuck themselves away through or over tiles only flyers can cross through. they also don't get hit by terrain hazards and movement penalties.
@@ayylmao633 While this is true, someone like Chloe for example would get the Luin lance as a weapon in a flying class since it's damage goes up based off of your speed. Griffin Knight Chloe is especially fast in this class.
Camilla is great with fliers, especially with Ivy if she's on lindwurm
@@maiku7648 Camilla benefits someone who isn't already a flier the most, because she lets them move like a flier while engaged without any of the flier weaknesses. And her dragon veins and flier bonuses are basically the same as Corrin's... which is to say still much better when used by a Mystical sub type lol. If you were going to use Camilla with Ivy, in spite of the obvious flavor choice of Lindwurm, she'd still get the most benefit as a Sage.
This is less "Sage Ivy good." and more "Byleth Mystics good." Which is a role other units can full.
Multiple things can be true at the same time.
basically this is a question of:
- Is Sage!Ivy better than Lindwurm!Ivy
- Is Sage!Ivy a better Sage, than compared against Sage!NotIvy
if both statements are true, it can make sense to reclass ivy to sage.
OR
- Is Sage!Ivy fun?
if this is true than it doesn't matter
But I do think this video could just be talking about byleth + mystics.
@@alemfi there comes a point in the game where you have so many emblem rings, your biggest team building problem comes from how best to use them.
I think the best question to be asking is, “is Lindwurm Ivy with ____ emblem better than Sage Ivy with Byleth/Corrin?” and, “do I have a better user of these rings, or a better ring for Ivy?”. Lindwurm Ivy in a vacuum will always be better than Sage, but when considering your full team comp and Emblem combinations, the answer becomes much harder to find.
In my (second maddening) run, I’ve been using Sage Ivy with Corrin because my other sages are already holding Byleth and Dire Thunder, so making her a Sage to utilize Draconic Vein makes her more useful than as a Lindwurm. I plan to pass Corrin off to a certain spoiler unit to have the Dragon bonus, and reclassing Ivy back to Lindwurm and having her hold Celica when the time comes.
I believe the point of the video was choosing a class for Ivy, not comparing different units.
Yeah, the video is explaining why a strong magic user is strong with sages, but it should also have showed when or why is preferable using ivy in that role over some else.
Actually Lindwurm at base has 1 more mag than sage, so it the 5% extra growth will actually need the 20 levels to pull ahead, basically end game. This is a nice recap of what the sage class can do but generally you’re better off putting someone else in sage and also running Ivy as Lindwurm as she’s the only offensive oriented mage flier.
sage also gets a passive to boost damage based on the number of tome users, which 4-5 range allows you to usually have at least one of, negating the 1 more magic in most cases, and surpassing it in others, also flying is overrated when 5 range accomplishes much the same. the issue as others have stated is that ivy and horts base classes are not mystical which isnt great, and ivys base class skill will usually be less damage than sages throughout the course of a play thru
You can arguably sort of kit out Hortensia offensively, it's resource-draining as heck though.
Griffin Knight Citrinne/Jean/Anna can also do it pretty decently, with Citrinne being the easiest to do it with and Anna/Jean being better at it in the long run.
I understand what you are saying about Thyrsus and your preference of Sage over Lindwurm, but there are a lot of characters I would seal to Sage before considering Ivy. I think Pandreo, Anna, Jean, and even Citrinne are all significantly better choices than Ivy.
you could make them all Sages for Spell Harmony lol
Very true. I've been considering for her sage for another playthrough mostly because I want Anna as a Griffin knight and Pandreo as a mage knight.
Don't forget Chloé! I think a lot of people sleep on Stage/Mage Knight Chloé even though her magic is her bigger growth and her base magic is pretty solid. For reference if you made everyone a sage she'd be the 7th fastest and the 6th strongest. (With Bologne) Which doesn't sound incredible, but the faster ones aren't necessarily stronger, the stronger aren't faster
The only Sage that completely outclassed Chloé as Sage offensively is Pandreo
@@justwantawholename Agreed. She has higher mag growth than Ivy.
Maybe SLIGHTLY BETTER in some aspects.
Anna is somewhat high investment, Jean is very high, Citrinne is so/so, Pandreo I agree actually :)
I never said she was the best sage though, I've been running her on Sage to test it out and it seems to be good, I have Anna on Mage Knight for a team comp reason in this playthrough.
I prefer having byleth on a flier just in case I need extra mobility to stick in a perfect goddess dance. Goddess dance always comes in clutch
I still just like having a good flying magic user, this seems like a role other sages can pull off.
You can also just straight up out range the wyrm units with Thrysus + Thoron. And a lot of those units are locked in place by the map so you can just sit outside of their range and poke them to death.
Least Ivy manages to make that outfit look good. Bit of a rarity
So does Pandreo ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
pandreo and chloe be looking like models in the Sage outfit
@@pikachyuu if you say so 😐
It’s fun if you want to use Ivy but not Lindwurm, but it’s not unique to her. Pandreo I think would do better as they have very comparable stats but he has better naturally build and dex+build growth to handle heavy tomes like Bolganone or Nova.
I think making best use of Lindwurm is key for bringing Ivy to her full potential. She has access to B staves like Rescue while most Griffins don’t. Unlike her sister she can actually do damage as a utility unit. For late game carry builds Grasping Void+Nova is a heck of a combo, even with her low dex, if you pump her speed up with Speedtaker.
And comparing her to other flying carries, she’s also unique in that she has great 1-2 range damage she can one round with. While wyverns and griffins need to use melee weapons for their main damage option, and even Levin Sword Griffins are going to be weaker.
Question: Why ivy, and not Anna? Right now, I'm using ivy as a dodgetank flying diver with Veronica for the Mag boost, and reprisal - but this is really cool.
Anna's one of the fastest mages. This stacks really well with the Chaos mode skill and generally higher speed stats on mage knight, to produce an unit that can double a wide range of opponents, including with Alacrity.
Because belly window Anna feels bad.
I pretty much came to the same conclusion. Flying Ivy is fantastic throughout Solm, but Mythical Class Perks from Byleth and Corrin are just too good to pass up. I'm actually running 4 Sages at the moment and I don't even think that's overkill. Stalling with Flame Wall and besieging with 4 Thorons works on just about everything. Also love how Byleth makes Crit eng Elsurge a real powerhouse
Sage + Byleth is good, but other units can do this build as well and arguably better than Ivy can. Citrinne has higher mag than Ivy, so she's better for Thoron nuking, and Pandreo has better speed so he doesn't need speedtaker and speed + X in order to double reliably with Bolganone. Plus, Citrinne only needs a master seal and Pandreo only needs a second seal to get into sage. Ivy needs both a master seal AND a second seal to become a sage.
Plus Lindwurm is the only offensive mage flier class in the game, so nobody else can replicate what Lindwurm Ivy can do. Imo it makes more sense to run both Lindwurm Ivy and also a Byleth sage.
How do you use the Lindwurm Ivy uniquely that makes it better than sage? I am currently favoring running a ton of sages atm for a few reasons :)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I don't have a special setup for Lindwurm Ivy or anything. But the fact that she's the only offensive flying mage class is a valuable and unique niche that nobody else can replicate. It has all the same tradeoffs as any flying unit does, and there are many scenarios where a flier can ignore terrain and reach places that a foot locked unit can't.
Just as one example, I used Ivy to fly over the water in the Leif paralogue and snipe the speedwing holder before anyone else could reach him, and then canter back onto the water out of range of all the enemies. I've watched a lot of your content and I know you know the value of flying units. Ivy has those same benefits, but also targets res in a game where many (most?) enemies have lower res than defense.
I also haven't tried it myself, but I know people swear by using Corrin on Ivy. Flying 6 range movement + 3 range tomes allows you to very easily snipe and lock down groups of enemies with Dreadful Aura. Hortensia can also do this, but you might want her staffbotting with Micaiah instead, and Ivy has better bulk to take advantage of the +HP that you get for equipping Corrin.
My point is not that sages are bad, just that using Ivy as a sage limits your options. Running sage Ivy with Byleth gives you all the benefits of a Byleth sage, but locks you out of using an offensive mage flier. Whereas if you give Byleth to a different sage, you get all those benefits AND also the unique benefits of a flying mage as well.
@@Krizzah47 Yeah on my last run I had Lyn on Ivy for midgame to patch up her speed, but once she could afford it, I inherited Speedtaker and Speed + 3 and gave her Sigurd instead for Canter. Ivy + Sigurd has 7 move, so she has an effective range of 8-9 with Bolganone and 8-10 with Thoron every turn. Meanwhile a Byleth sage will have 5 move and so will have 6-9 range Bolganone and 6-10 range Thoron, but only for 3-4 turns while engaged.
Byleth sage has the notable benefit of being able to attack 3-range enemies without risking a counterattack, which is definitely really nice. But again, probably better suited to a unit that can't take a hit in retaliation, unlike Ivy who has pretty good bulk and can afford to take a hit.
Sigurd on Ivy is arguably a waste of his engage weapons and override, but I never found Sigurd's engage weapons that great anyway and override is pretty situational so I only sometimes missed it. To me, the ability to speed stack Ivy, free up Lyn, and still have Canter on Ivy was far more valuable.
just remembering passing thyrsus around in 3 houses brought a tear to my left eye
Thrysus also turns Elsurge into a 3 range guaranteed nuke which can be helpful for hitting high speed units like swordmasters or patching up mages with meh dex like ivy.
Can citrine do a similar thing? Cause that way you can have both a magic flier and a seige user.
Sage Ivy is more unique in that she can apply Single-minded to Celica's mystical Echo bonus
Oh that's a neat idea. Ngl, this is actually the most convincing argument for sage Ivy I've seen in this thread. Although other sages likely just have better hit rates to begin with anyway so they don't need single-minded to patch it up.
A 3 upload day and all posted before I even get out of bed. Ur too kind 🥰
Not having the Elusia sisters on their prf class feels deeply wrong, I'm not doing that ever lol
Oh and if you want a good laugh, promote Ivy to Hero just to see the outfit...
I actually like them on sage at this point, we need to test things to rule them out or validate they are good :)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming true, it's just that... it doesn't feel right, you see? x)
I'm all for testing new things, I plan to try out martial master Rosado for my 7th run!
Oh and I also went for swordmaster hortensia on one of my previous runs for fun and uuuh yea, didn't work out too well, who would have guessed
Oh, also this allows for 3 range Elsurge. Just for fun.
My beef with this idea is that you can do it on really any other sage while not losing the flying mage that normal characters like Anna, Pandreo or other Sage options can't pull off (but can run this exact same idea without losing the option).
I am personally running Anna on Sage for Thyrsus and for now Ivy is just holding a Dire Thunder as a Lindwurm (gave Lyn to a Warrior Etie because I love shooting myself in the foot like that).
Precisely my point especially coming from him who stated already how flyers are incredibly powerful why the hell I wanna lose my flying bulky mage?
Here is my thinking:
Bonded Shield Cav squad: More durable without bonded shield in general due to losing Flyer Weakness.
Anna on Mage Knight, has better base SPD/SPD passive and 1 more BLD making anna able to more easily double (before speedtaking) to 1 round while bonded.
Ivy on Sage is an easy transition to make, with the new Cav Bonded team comp I really want sieges so I want ranged poke, sure you could run Pandreo instead, the point of this video isn't that Ivy is the best sage, or that Lindwurm is bad, I think there are pros/cons to both and both depend on team comp.
I have used Lindwurm on 4 maddening runs, I am fully aware of where it is good/bad.
I still run flying units, but fewer of them, and they play off of the bonded shield army that also attacks things on the flanks. The other idea is Thoron Corrin Hortensia for staff utility, fire, and super poking enemies with Thoron and freezing small groups. Ideally I don't waste her turns using fire vein but instead keep freezing/nuking with the dancer siege combo to kill flankers/stragglers and the 2-3 Wyverns on the team clean up damage/kills and dive.
The cavs can pop off and dive as well as needed, and excess cavs can rotate/dive. Also long term I will have two off tanks to hold flanks so the sages can have barriers on top of just out ranging incoming enemies.
im currently running a vajra-mushti/lunar brace build on alear, as punching with divine dragon is a one round refill, he gets to be engaged all the time, and i get maximum goddess dances, while fixing his mid ass damage output
Dude just wanna say your videos are awesome and extremely helpful. I made my first playthrough on maddening harder than it should have been on myself because I didn't know what characters to invest in or how to use them effectively, and now I'm currently on my second run using your unit guides and it's a lot more enjoyable lol.
2:55 Sage has less base magic than Lindwurm. You lose 1 base mag going into sage for 5 extra growth over Lindwurm, meaning you need 20 levels in sage to get the same magic, so this is kind of a non-point.
but also gain a passive to boost damage based on nearby tome users, of which there are many, and in his playthru, even more.
so if you even have 1 tome user near her (which is likely thanks to 5 range) you dont actually lose out on any damage, but have a higher growth and a chance for even more damage with more nearby tome users
Clearly sage diamant is actually the best have you seen that mans abs
The funny thing is that I used to put Byleth on Ivy, but never thought about sage and forgot Thyrsus was in the game. Right now I need Byleth on Allear as I need all of the stats I can get right now, but will definitely try this on future runs.
I usually run Byleth on Anna for the luck bonus.
And speaking if Anna, I was thinking of trying her as a Levin swordmaster on my next playthrough.
honestly, levin sword griffin knight would do the same thing, but better.
@Brady Pinnell sure, but it's boring to have so many of the same class, and I already have Chloe ripping everything apart as griffin knight.
@AnimeSquirrel so you'd have 2? I don't think it's boring, especially since Chloe doesn't use swords and would likely play entirely different, and you could always just use Griffen knight for the better growths then go into sword master late game
Comments are like "It's not Ivy, it's Mystical" but Corrin!Mystical and Thyrsus have enough value where if you don't have a Mystical unit to drive them, Ivy fits the bill well. Ivy can't ORKO in Maddening without Speedtaker in Lindwurm, so if your other casters are Mage Knights for ORKO stuff and you want to run Ivy, she's as competent in Sage as she is Lindwurm -flying.
HighPriest!Ivy may be more bespoke, as her innate Tome gives her A Rank Tomes and S Rank Staves (and fists for breaks/engage recharge?/cope). This mostly matters if you want multiple A Rank Staff (Entrap) users and/or don't want to run Hortensia. Sage will have better Mag and Spd/Bld though.
Ivy is the character I've been bashing my head against a wall to figure out an alternate class and tbh it hasn't presented itself. I've thought about changing her to other classes then changing her back to lindwurm, but they end up not really helping her stats too much and usually hurting her. Lindwurm is just such a unique and good class with awful dexterity that can't really be solved by mage classes (don't think any of them boost dex growth), but if you switch to like sage or high priest or whatever you start missing out on lindwurms big boost to defenses and speed. I just think she's best on her main class maybe with an accuracy engraving.
Also is it just me or does anyone else always end up with lucina on her? I'm 4 playthroughs in and it's always lucina.
Why not reverse Anna and Ivy's roles here? That way you get to make use of Byleths Lck increase + Anna's Make a Killing, Ivy's higher tank stats, and Ivy's Single Minded (by targetting the most recent enemy that attacked you). I get that it's boring to just run Byleth on Sage Anna again but it feels too good to not be optimal.
For what it's worth, 2 units that pincer attacked Anna each had a 33% chance of killing her in the video. It's nice that Anna is one rounding enemies on EP, something that Ivy might not be able to do, but killing enemies sometimes just opens up the spot for another one to hit you again.
As interesting as it is, I think this is just discount Anna, and Anna cannot go into Lindwurm to fill in for Ivy.
Not really, Anna does require setup and taking XP from other units early on unless you blatantly exploit the game by staff XP farming.
What does Lindwurm accomplish specifically that makes it better than sage? Flying is great, sure, but without Bonded Shield on flyer squad don't these do the same thing in that you hit distant targets with magic? Honestly I prefer dancing a siege weapon than having another flying unit, my 2-3 wyverns dive enough/put in enough work I don't feel Lindwurm is needed usually. I've done 4 maddening runs on Lindwurm and 2 on sage, I am starting to prefer sage for the flexibility/range. IMO Anna is best on Mage Knight, it helps her SPD/BLD and enables Levin Sword/Bolganone better than Sage does on her.
I'm also starting to think Cavalry Bonded is meta because of how much versatility you get, you can 100% bond so many different classes due to Cavalry having the most class options.
For diving, Lindwurm Ivy is best, though most maddening maps heavily prevent this with enemy density, more or less nullifying a dive advantage.
Sage Ivy: I Sleep
Mage Knight Ivy: *Real Shit*
The to bids reason for having Ivy in Sage is the cute exposed midriff
I've been considering this on my next maddening run. I actually prefer her art on Lindwyrm, but she definitely looks better as a sage than the loli mages🙃
Honestly I wonder if most special classes aren't meant to he run before ch20 I wonder if most are meant for end game after you grow a unit properly.
I wanted to try this because of the enemy 3 range weapons, but then realized that Ivy has a ton of res and doesn't really mind thorons and longbows are very weak and inaccurate.
Oh no, I'll leave alive like 3 dudes out of 20... Good, maybe the weak ones can eat this time.
with that outfit it should have been called thirstsus
I turned Chloe into a sage and omggg so good. Needed a small amount of speed help which surprised me. But her magic stat is cracked.
Sage base Lindon staff magic utility dance with byleth, can proc chain attacks safely
Wouldn’t it be better to have anna on sage with byleth so she can have more procs on her personal with luck growth? And maybe have ivy be the bonded horse thing? I know divine pulse helps with ivy’s misses but divine pulse i think costs 500 sp for the max level, i think its still a shame to waste ivy’s flying mage since its the only one in the game, and hortensia of course so wouldn’t it make more sense to have another unit like pandreo or citrinne lindon be mage knight since they don’t have access to special classes.
Hey Coffee, how did the Citrene and Dire Thunder combo work out, does its fall off late game?
It doesn't seem to fall off. TBH it is insane
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Thanks, I really wanna try that in my next maddening run, it's looked awesome. Also your Corrin Fire strats to stall the enemy, has really helped on some of the tougher maps.
As always keep up the awesome content, I keep learning new things.
I see you are a sage of culture as well.
It seems like Sage Ivy is so legit just because of Byleth. If you’re putting Byleth on another unit (let’s just say a speedy flier for Luin and boosted levin sword damage to really differentiate) then what else does Sage Ivy bring to the table? Is she still better off as a Sage without Byleth, or should she stick to Lindwurm?
If you aren't putting some emblem on Ivy then just throw her in the trash because on maddening she hits like a wet noodle
Yes? The point was moreso just asking if Sage had more advantages over Lindwurm if you took Byleth out of the equation, not removing emblems altogether from her
@@Coreyographed Ah sorry I misunderstood what you were asking
I'd say yes, but more because mystic has more emblem synergy than fliers. When running Lindwurm the only thing I've seen so far is throwing Lyn on to patch the speed issues/decoys. But Lyn is so much stronger on other characters and she's highly desired
Mystics can run Corrin, Byleth and Celica, The best I can think of with Lindwurm is Micaiah because she doesn't have significant synergies besides hortensia (but you know, if you don't want to run her then Micaiah can pretty much go on anyone)
Do you think taking Anna off of sage/byleth combo is worth the drop in economy? Her luck decreases quite a bit unless there are other luck giving emblems that she can make use of
I use Anna as a combat unit, her making money is a nice bonus.
you barely need her money on maddening, but if you want it theres like 4 other emblems with high luck, and argueably better options if all you care about is money
for example, you could make anna a sniper with radiant bow and leif, cover units make his quad hit have a chance to drop 1000g based on luck, and light brand gives +10 luck
luck boosting inherits are also some of the cheapest
I dont really like sage Ivy. It seems way more benefical to use Lindwurn and patch up her Dex and Speed to make use of the abillity. Im actually using General Diamant for the sake of variety and I think this is the same case, others can perform this role too or even better.
Do you think you’d be able to do a video on the alear/corrin combo? Its working really well for me on hard mode. Getting ready for my maddening run and I’m thinking of going with alear/corrin again for the utility but don’t know if alear has better uses. I will be doing a bonded shield strat but I’m building up the bond shield team so they have support synergy of their own
if you’re doing your own bonded shield team then you’ll want them to be majority fliers. The reason people run Lucina alear is because dragon increases blockrate to 90% from 80% which is really significant. I think the only other option is flying, which gives 100% block to all other fliers
ooh! Cavalry has cavalry -> 100% as well :D
Lindwurm and Sleipnir Rider I think should have 2 subtype just like if you Promote Clanne to Mage Knight Ivy's and Hortensia's Should be Flying and Mystical Clanne's Mage Knight Cavalry and Mystical
As good as thyrsus is, I mostly put Byleth in a support unit with high move like a griffin knight or a royal knight.
best use for byleth is on alear with a levin sword and for aoe dragon dance and dragon instruct while engaged, byleth gets moved over to SPOILER in the end game
also, you are single hitting everything anyways, just use byleth not in a dumb way and thoron nuke everything at safety...
this is why archer Anna is better with Claude's ring is because she nukes everything without getting hit with a radiant bow (which is C rank so you can place anna on anything that uses bows to gain use of radiant bow) and literally one shots every flier in the game the moment she hits level 10 to advance to a bow-using class and still fulfills the same thing as bolganone mage, but at 3 range
Maddening players when they aren't being kicked in the balls every other turn: Oh my god this strat is broken.
And then there's me, the unoptimized player who doesn't use Ivy at all because I hate her character. This definitely seems like a valid strat though, and in Engage most playstyles are workable as far as I know, with emblem rings giving such strong abilities and whatnot.
I think Byleth just makes Sage/Mage Knight shine honestly
Interesting take, but I have to disagree with it. Imo Lindwurm is her best class. Flying utility is really strong especially with stuff like canter. Not being hindered by terrain allows you to attack/Heal from spots which a sage cant reach. Also having 1 extra move is also a plus. The biggest apeal of sage is the mythical bonuses with byleth which are good. Thyrsus is good, but imo not the best application. Besides goddess dance byleth has Instruct which can buff +3 stats (dragon) or +5 speed (covert), which funnily enough benefits Ivy much more than Thyrsus. For example a level 17/20 Ivy!Lindwurm has on average 21.60 spd ( 22 rounded up) and can't double great knight(19 spd) in ch. 20, but with Instruct she can. You can argue +3 speed would be enough, but why not both to get 8 spd to double more enemy types and also important to remember up to 8 units can get the speed buff. Having +2 range is good, letting 2 to 4 units hit spd benchmarks to double is better. Everytime you attack with the byleth user, at max 8 units lose out on the stats buffs. Without byleth sage only notable advantage would be +2 spd which is definitely not better than having flying and +1 move. Just wanted to state my opinion because discussing about things is fun.
Tldr Lindwurm is better than sage. Byleth is much more suited on covert and dragon unit because of the stat bonuses, which are much better than thyrsus and without Thyrsus sage got nothing for it besides the +2 spd which are overshadowed by flying and +1 move from Lindwurm.
Honestly seems like a waste to me, when sage Anna or citrinne can easily take this role. Especially Anna can make use of Byleth ring so much more for the Extra luck and lindwurm isn't even a bad class to begin with
True, but I am running Anna on Mage Knight in this run so the ring is free :). Also I am thinking MK is Anna's best combat class due to the high speed/speed stacking. Anna has low BLD so Mage Knight helps offset this by improving her base SPD. It also gives her access to Levin Sword which can be used when silenced or used to break axes.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming leif is also a solid option on mage knight anna, up to 5 bld, vantage, some more weapon options for breaking. light brand also boost luck 10.
especially if you are doing an all mage run and a running out of magical emblems like i am
Please make a Jean video soon :)
3 range Elsurge is also a fun meme build
i prefer ivy as a lindwurn with sigurd lv 20 and a thoron with a good engrave(like lyn,corrin or eirika engraves) plus put two or even 3 boots on her
the ABSOLUTE HIT AND RUN UNIT!1/HARASSMENT UNIT!1
I made her a sage in my first playthrough because I hate flying units
the stupid spike flowers really make her default outfit kinda silly but as a mage nuke idk she doesn't seem to compare that well to annah
Anyone can be a sage for thyrsus, but only ivy can be a strong flying mage so this is just a waste of potential
Midriff.
So Sage Ivy is good because of Byleth on Sage. But why would you not have Sage Anna with Byleth, and have her on her Unique class.
I make Ivy a sage just to reveal her tummy
thyrsus was busted in 3 houses as well
4 range is in fact broken and stupid. Especially paired with Canter. That was a big problem I had with 3 Houses. And I am super grateful that this type of option is extremely limited in Engage. I do agree with you that 4 range is better than flying.
But flying is still excellent, and you're giving it up on both Ivy and Hortensia. Hortensia is presumably there to patch up her magic stat, as well as take advantage of Vein of Fire.
But I think it would make a more sense to run Alear with Corrin as a Divine Dragon, for all of the Veins. Keep Ivy on Lindwurm, and run Hortensia (or better yet, Pandreo) as a sage with Byleth, and just give Lucina to somebody else.
While I think sage Ivy has an advantage over Lindwurm, you're still giving up Ivy's most valuable unique property when you could have somebody else fulfill the Tharsis role without giving up Lindwurm. Sage Ivy I feel is for a team that would otherwise not have a mystic.
As something of a side note, I don't understand why people think Hortensia is good.
Expected classless stats at internal level 30
HP Bld Str Mag Dex Spd Def Res Lck
Hortensia 13.4 1 7.2 9.2 15.85 16.5 7.75 18.05 16.5
Pandreo 22.4 6.1 4.7 12.2 16.3 17.3 7.1 19.7 13.2
Pandreo has Hortensia beat or nearly tied in every meaningful stat. Raising the level higher, Hortensia's defense advantage grows a bit, but it's still bad. Hortensia's personal skill is good, but you can get most of it's utility from any staff user with canter, and Pandreo's ability is incredibly strong in it's own right.
I prefer Hortensia over Pandreo for the staff range, his passive is good but I don't find mages to be that inaccurate. I also don't try to make my sages avoid tanks so aside from slightly better stats he kind of has no niche.
On any class she can baby physic with any healing staff, on her unique class she is arguably the best staff utility in the game and combined with her staff range and canter, can skirt the edge of danger more effectively.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I haven't had trouble skirting enemy ranges with canter alone, so the extra staff range I've just found to be really overrated. Although I admit, it definitely has some value, especially before you get Sigurd back.
In the rare instance Hortensia can skirt an attack Pandreo can't, Pandreo can generally survive the hit, and hit back.
The stat differences I need to point out are a bit more than slight.
Both wielding Bolganone as sages with an internal level of 30, Pandreo is 41 attack, 24 speed, Hortensia is 38 attack, 19 speed. Hortensia can try to keep up in the speed department by swapping to Elfire, 33 attack, 23 speed, or Excalibur, 32 attack 21 speed. But in a round of combat, she deals 3 less damage if neither can double, 6 less damage if they can both double with Bolganone, 16 less if she has to drop to Elfire (they have a 5 point speed gap with Bolganone, so expect this a lot.), and if she wants to match Pandreo's Bolganone speed, the only tomes she can use are Fire and Wind. In which case, she speed ties, but deals 13 less damage per strike.
She joins 3 chapters later, unpromoteted, 3 internal levels higher, and even after using a master seal and second seal to get them to the same class, she'd still have worse stats than base Pandreo.
Alternatively, if you still really want Hortensia for the +1 staff range, you could replace sage Ivy with sage Pandreo. He'll basically hit as hard, but faster and with higher resistance. I just think taking Hortensia out of the system would be far preferable to taking Ivy out of the system.
@@plentyofpaper Hortensia is a support unit. I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that she's good at combat, let alone better than Pandreo.
But she doesn't have to be good at combat to be a good unit. That's like saying that Seadall is bad because he doesn't do as much damage as Martial Master Chloe.
Staves are really good in Engage, and Hortensia's personal skill and Sleipnir Rider's class skill perfectly synergize with a staffbot role.
Sure you could use Ivy, Pandreo, or some other staff user and accomplish most of the same things, but then that's taking turns away from some of your most powerful player phase units. I'd rather have a unit dedicated to staff use full time to free up my powerful units to go kill things instead.
Honestly Citrinne does this better with her higher Magic stat and growth and Speedtaker fixing her speed issue she had Pre-Well update.
Lindwurm is better imo for Utility purposes and Sages makes mages too frail, compared to Lindwurm having great defense and Hp stat.
True, Citrinne is A tier now :)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming Hearing you say this brings me tears of happiness. I rode for Citrinne with Thyrsus Day 1 and I am so happy how the Well has skyrocketed her usefulness. 🥲
This comment section is wild. Base on his Alear's name he's on his 7th file already. People in here are up in arms over Ivy on sage. Like crying over 1 mag and flying. After a few playthroughs people may want to try something different with their fav unit sometimes. Let his sage Ivy cook y'all.
We also need to let Vander cook :)
I mean I get wanting to just try something different. I tried martial master Chloe for shits and giggles on my last run. And I was considering using sage Alear on my current run just for the ponytail and the sage drip, even though that's objectively a terrible idea.
I think if he'd just said "I like Ivy, I wanna use her, but I'm tired of using Lindwurm so I'm trying sage instead" nobody would care. But this video is ostensibly made as a guide and it doesn't cover some of the important tradeoffs that people are discussing in the comments.
Rebutting an argument isn't a personal attack, it's just fun to discuss the pros and cons of different strategies.
what gives you so much range?
Byleth Thyrsus
Long range macig
I did try her in sage imma be real homie I hate losing my bulky mage when Anna exists
Seriously you tell us constantly how powerful flyers are and how bulky lindwurm and powerful lindwurm is so why on the ever living hell want to put this on ivy instead of the idk 5 potential sages in the game
God dammit, she still keeps that stupid headgear. That's the sole reason I was considering promoting her outside of her unique class. :D
She even keeps it as a General. And yet, Jade loses her cool helm
Sage ivy is stupid as 90% of what is great about ivy is lindwyrm. It gives her +1mov, flying but most importantly a defence stat (switching to sage is -6 base and -15 growth). Lindwyrm ivy is the only Mage in the game who can take physical hits decently. This leads to her being able to enemy phase to an extent. Everything sage ivy can do another unit can do just as well e.g. (Anna, citrinne, pandreo, Celine)
Chloé sage works better