Hello from Kansas City, Missouri Martin. Outstanding Video as Always. In my humble opinion, even though it's true that Bossa Nova has 2 Father's, Antonio Carlos Jobim and Joao Gilberto, I believe it's important to remember that Bossa Nova had many Uncle's so to speak, that helped to popularize Bossa Nova throughout the world. Not only did they help to popularize the genre, but they brought Their Own Style to Jobim and Gilbertos Foundation. Part of what this means is that some of their Rhythms are slightly different than what Jobim/Gilberto played. Even Jobim/Gilberto themselves didn't play the same Rhythm on every song. Sometimes their songs would have slightly different Rhythms for each part of the form. Or the song would start off with a simpler Rhythm, then by the end of the Song, Gilberto would be playing a more busy version of the same Rhythm. The Uncle's I referred to are Oscar Castro-Neves, Charlie Byrd, Luiz Bonfa' and Laurindo Almeida. Also for modern Bossa Nova, check out Romero Lubambo and Diego Figueiredo. Thanks.
Bossa Nova I love to hear and try playing but only from you tube lessons. So I can understand your well presented video lesson. Thank you very much for sharing.
Hi there from Pennsylvania. Long-time Brazilophile here, I had the opportunity to both live there and study Brazilian music in Brasilia when I was in college. I was taught by almost everyone there that the Bossa has more of an emphasis on the 1, which I found to be more true for the SLOWER Bossa tunes. As most Bossa tunes speed up, the guitarist usually incorporates more Samba-style rhythms, which is what you are doing there by anticipating the 1 before the start of the phrase. I think the best way to fit that into a pedagogical paradigm is to realize that Bossa and Samba exist on a kind of continuum, it's hard to differentiate Samba from Bossa sometimes based solely on rhythm. You're very right--Brazilian music is SUCH an orally transmitted tradition and Brazilian rhythms have not been adequately phylogenized, really by anybody--any Brazilian musician will agree with you there.
You are absolutely right. Desafinado played by Joao Gilberto is on the 1st beat and is very characteristic. However, Toquinho plays more on a real samba pattern.
Super intérressant comme d´habitude! J´ai l ´impression que l´on fait tous comme on peut et c´est comme ça que l´on "dénaturalise" la Musique mais aussi qu´on la fait avancer. Merci beaucoup pour tes videos toujours aussi didactiques!
Martin, I forgot to mention in my previous comment, and for anyone else that's interested, please check out the song, Song For Joyce, on the album Oscar ! with the Paul Winter Consort. In my opinion it's one of the most moving Ballads ever, and it was written by Oscar. Thanks.
Since years I'm having the following thought - let's say I'm playing a similar rhythm but it's not the exact original bossa nova rhythm, and just like you did some people say "oh that's not the right bossa nova rhythm, it's something else, but it's not bossa nova". Now let's pretend it would have been the other way around, means somebody would have invented it like I did, then the other rhythm would be "wrong". Or let's assume another great guitarist would have played it "wrong" in the 60ies and would have had great success, then today we would speak of 2 possible rhythms that can be played. But now let's shift the same invention of an alternative second rhythm from the 60ies to today, and suddenly it's called "wrong". Why can I not invent my own similar patterns and still call them variations of a bossa nova rhythm? it feels like the people who have success with a rhythm are the inventors and only that is right, and all others are wrong. So who says what is right and what is wrong? I personally would have said that if something has the same feeling just play it, and I don't care if others say it's "wrong", I'm simply the first playing it like this and in 60 years from now the new pattern is also "right". I mean there is always someone playing something the first time. And as we know the musicians who are different, the ones who are brave and innovative are the ones that are more likely to have success with their new inventions. And then others will copy them. Now you will tell me that I can for sure play whatever I want, but then I shouldn't call it Bossa Nova. That is okay, I just will say it's similar to Bossa Nova, or I call it Bossa Nova Variation 2. So these are just thoughts, cause I'm doing anyway what I want, but I observed that some musicians don't dare to be innovative and think they have to follow strict rules and by that they are limiting themselves a lot.
Thanks fo your comment Marco!! this topic is very interesting indeed :-) Yes, the first one to "invent" something is right, but it's not as simple as "right or wrong" even though I sometimes use these words to make it easier to understand. I think the first thing to get is that if you change the rhythm/clave, other rhythms have to be adaptated (clave played by the drums, rhythmic placement of the voice etc) to make the equilibrium sound nice. Another point is that to make a good musical inovation you need a lot of practice and experience... Or to listen to people who have. João Gilberto picked these rhythms after dedicating his entire life to music, being surrounded by music from Brazil : I wouldn't have the idea to pick some other rhythm and think that it sounds good too or even better for bossa nova if I have just a few years of experience in that style, but that's my approach and I respect people having another way of thinking. To say it simply, I know that I know much less that João G., I know that I can't imagine what he was thinking but I trust him, so I mimice him for a starting point in my learning. And lastely, I find it interesting to try to understand the logic and choices of great musicians (João Gilberto being one of them to my point of view) : it's a great starting point to play better... Which is the point of all the videos I produce, and I'm very happy to share my finds with the world :-)
@@guitareimprovisation thanks for sharing your view, I wish you a happy and successful new year, all the best to you and your loved ones, greetings from Germany
mais pourquoi en english!?!, en tout cas on aurait aimé plus d'exemple, ;-) ...( we would have liked more examples) merci quand même, très instructif, c'est vrai qu'on inverse le pattern quand on commence sur le temps et ça cloche, pas facila à "chopper" en même temps
Bossa novas history in Brazil is unseparable from the history of the brazilian military dictatorship. I’m no expert but i know there is a book by ruy castro on the topic. Chega de saudade is the name of the book. I dont know if it’s translated to English or french though.
Hey! Thanks for the video, trying to rap my head around Bossa Nova as a new musician so I've been watching a lot of them. I think this one about the Girl from Ipanema has a great rundown of how things, especially in the US, went the way they did for teaching Bossa Nova ruclips.net/video/OFWCbGzxofU/видео.html
Hello from Kansas City, Missouri Martin. Outstanding Video as Always. In my humble opinion, even though it's true that Bossa Nova has 2 Father's, Antonio Carlos Jobim and Joao Gilberto, I believe it's important to remember that Bossa Nova had many Uncle's so to speak, that helped to popularize Bossa Nova throughout the world. Not only did they help to popularize the genre, but they brought Their Own Style to Jobim and Gilbertos Foundation. Part of what this means is that some of their Rhythms are slightly different than what Jobim/Gilberto played. Even Jobim/Gilberto themselves didn't play the same Rhythm on every song. Sometimes their songs would have slightly different Rhythms for each part of the form. Or the song would start off with a simpler Rhythm, then by the end of the Song, Gilberto would be playing a more busy version of the same Rhythm. The Uncle's I referred to are Oscar Castro-Neves, Charlie Byrd, Luiz Bonfa' and Laurindo Almeida. Also for modern Bossa Nova, check out Romero Lubambo and Diego Figueiredo. Thanks.
Bossa Nova I love to hear and try playing but only from you tube lessons. So I can understand your well presented video lesson. Thank you very much for sharing.
Hi there from Pennsylvania. Long-time Brazilophile here, I had the opportunity to both live there and study Brazilian music in Brasilia when I was in college. I was taught by almost everyone there that the Bossa has more of an emphasis on the 1, which I found to be more true for the SLOWER Bossa tunes. As most Bossa tunes speed up, the guitarist usually incorporates more Samba-style rhythms, which is what you are doing there by anticipating the 1 before the start of the phrase. I think the best way to fit that into a pedagogical paradigm is to realize that Bossa and Samba exist on a kind of continuum, it's hard to differentiate Samba from Bossa sometimes based solely on rhythm. You're very right--Brazilian music is SUCH an orally transmitted tradition and Brazilian rhythms have not been adequately phylogenized, really by anybody--any Brazilian musician will agree with you there.
You are absolutely right. Desafinado played by Joao Gilberto is on the 1st beat and is very characteristic. However, Toquinho plays more on a real samba pattern.
Super intérressant comme d´habitude! J´ai l ´impression que l´on fait tous comme on peut et c´est comme ça que l´on "dénaturalise" la Musique mais aussi qu´on la fait avancer. Merci beaucoup pour tes videos toujours aussi didactiques!
Very interesting presentation thanks!
Great tutorial Martin. Merci beaucoup. Joyeux Noël
Thanks for the video! Whenever I play bossa, i always tell people i play “jazz” bossa hahaha
Martin, I forgot to mention in my previous comment, and for anyone else that's interested, please check out the song, Song For Joyce, on the album Oscar ! with the Paul Winter Consort. In my opinion it's one of the most moving Ballads ever, and it was written by Oscar. Thanks.
Intéressant, le fameux rythme bossa est souvent mal présenté ou transcrit, et cela remet bien les choses en place au sujet du "décalage".
Maybe it's a question of "clave"
Brilliant
Merci !
Since years I'm having the following thought - let's say I'm playing a similar rhythm but it's not the exact original bossa nova rhythm, and just like you did some people say "oh that's not the right bossa nova rhythm, it's something else, but it's not bossa nova". Now let's pretend it would have been the other way around, means somebody would have invented it like I did, then the other rhythm would be "wrong". Or let's assume another great guitarist would have played it "wrong" in the 60ies and would have had great success, then today we would speak of 2 possible rhythms that can be played. But now let's shift the same invention of an alternative second rhythm from the 60ies to today, and suddenly it's called "wrong". Why can I not invent my own similar patterns and still call them variations of a bossa nova rhythm? it feels like the people who have success with a rhythm are the inventors and only that is right, and all others are wrong. So who says what is right and what is wrong? I personally would have said that if something has the same feeling just play it, and I don't care if others say it's "wrong", I'm simply the first playing it like this and in 60 years from now the new pattern is also "right". I mean there is always someone playing something the first time. And as we know the musicians who are different, the ones who are brave and innovative are the ones that are more likely to have success with their new inventions. And then others will copy them.
Now you will tell me that I can for sure play whatever I want, but then I shouldn't call it Bossa Nova. That is okay, I just will say it's similar to Bossa Nova, or I call it Bossa Nova Variation 2. So these are just thoughts, cause I'm doing anyway what I want, but I observed that some musicians don't dare to be innovative and think they have to follow strict rules and by that they are limiting themselves a lot.
Thanks fo your comment Marco!! this topic is very interesting indeed :-) Yes, the first one to "invent" something is right, but it's not as simple as "right or wrong" even though I sometimes use these words to make it easier to understand. I think the first thing to get is that if you change the rhythm/clave, other rhythms have to be adaptated (clave played by the drums, rhythmic placement of the voice etc) to make the equilibrium sound nice. Another point is that to make a good musical inovation you need a lot of practice and experience... Or to listen to people who have. João Gilberto picked these rhythms after dedicating his entire life to music, being surrounded by music from Brazil : I wouldn't have the idea to pick some other rhythm and think that it sounds good too or even better for bossa nova if I have just a few years of experience in that style, but that's my approach and I respect people having another way of thinking. To say it simply, I know that I know much less that João G., I know that I can't imagine what he was thinking but I trust him, so I mimice him for a starting point in my learning. And lastely, I find it interesting to try to understand the logic and choices of great musicians (João Gilberto being one of them to my point of view) : it's a great starting point to play better... Which is the point of all the videos I produce, and I'm very happy to share my finds with the world :-)
@@guitareimprovisation thanks for sharing your view, I wish you a happy and successful new year, all the best to you and your loved ones, greetings from Germany
Thanks a lot Marco, you too :-)
mais pourquoi en english!?!, en tout cas on aurait aimé plus d'exemple, ;-) ...( we would have liked more examples) merci quand même, très instructif, c'est vrai qu'on inverse le pattern quand on commence sur le temps et ça cloche, pas facila à "chopper" en même temps
Bossa novas history in Brazil is unseparable from the history of the brazilian military dictatorship. I’m no expert but i know there is a book by ruy castro on the topic. Chega de saudade is the name of the book. I dont know if it’s translated to English or french though.
Henry Salvador a eu une influence sur la création de la bossa nova , parait il ...
En fait , si j'ai bien compris , tout depend du chanteur qui n'a que a commencé au bon moment , non ? Explique le stp à Vincent qui me fera un topo !
Ah, où as-tu vu cette information ?
4:11 Wow, you used your not getting it to patronize -- I guess you truly are French. ;p
Jokes aside, these were good insights.
Haha ! By the way some complementary infos about that are written in the description :-)
When you realize you’ve been playing bossa nova wrong your whole life 😮 thanks 🙏
I think the French want it to be "ONE two three o'clock, four o'clock rock.." as you say
KM184
Hey! Thanks for the video, trying to rap my head around Bossa Nova as a new musician so I've been watching a lot of them. I think this one about the Girl from Ipanema has a great rundown of how things, especially in the US, went the way they did for teaching Bossa Nova ruclips.net/video/OFWCbGzxofU/видео.html