The Centralized Web Is Falling Apart
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- Опубликовано: 3 июн 2024
- You've probably heard about the Reddit drama. Big Tech platforms across the web are making increasingly bad decisions and users are up in arms. Is there an alternative to these terrible, centralized social media platforms and services that are increasingly holding more power over the web? Let's discuss the future of the web in this video.
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0:00 Le Reddit drama
1:38 What's happening to the centralized web?
3:44 Where's the money?
6:00 Decentralized social media and the fediverse
9:01 Back to the web forum?
10:45 We're tired of the ads
11:36 Revolt against the centralized web
12:25 What's the future of the web? 
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The Reddit "blackout" was an absolute joke that did nothing. Now you have certain subreddits posting meme content, as if that will change things. All that is going to do is alienate users and get the mods replaced.
And the users keep flooding this meme content thinking that're somehow harming Reddit but on the contrary they're helping Reddit spike his numbers.
Well, Reddit closed several subreddits AND DID NOT RE-OPEN THEM, some mods were banned, some subreddits are still permanently in meme mode, Reddit's overall content quality has dropped so much that lurkers (main ad audience) aren't bothering to visit any more, and Reddit has announced that it's shutting down its most ethical revenue stream and it's going to pay bots for posting propaganda. I'd say Reddit is not going very well.
alienatig users is the point, we should delete subs and replace them with N word spam and stuff, make reddit permanently unusable
This comment aged well
I found "r/anarchychess" thanks to the "blackout". So it was, on the whole, a positive experience for me.
Honestly, Twitter and Reddit doing authoritarian things like these is showing off really well how much unchecked power they really well
Going back to pre 2006 internet would be great.
I really miss the old-school forums. There are still some great ones around but unfortunately it's a dying medium.
It's strange too because they are a unique medium that can't really be replaced by anything else.
I could never get why everybody abondoned forums and moved to centalized space? The whole thing feels dead to me, on forums I knew the people I talked with, maybe not personally, but I knew their character, maybe we played games together, on these huge agregators I don't know anyone, nor do I care, usually I just there to fight my way through horrible nested comments to find some information I wanted and then leave that site quickly.
because there is more content
Normal people are too lazy and want one forum to find the thing they want
They really didn't, at least not on Facebook or Reddit. Facebook Groups are some of the most active spaces on Facebook other than people just using messenger to stay in touch with friends/family now that AIM is dead. And Reddit pretty much allows you to create your own forum for free without worrying about web hosting, if all you want is a place to discuss a particular topic. And Discord also kind of has that, pretty much an emulation of IRC "servers." So what people really have been doing on these platforms is creating their own separate spaces and maybe occasionally interacting with bigger ones. It's sort of like the difference between purchasing shared hosting for a website and getting a dedicated server... shared hosting is cheaper. And on these social media platforms, the cost goes down to zero supported by ads and subject to more rules. Really I think it was just price (free), and the convenience of having it on a platform everyone already uses for something else. But make no mistake, people do definitely carve out their own smaller spaces for their own group on these big platforms, it would be almost unusable otherwise. Twitter might be the only exception, and that's why I think it's a mess.
Google bring traffic into it. Lack of requirement to create new account to ask and answer questions. More users meant more potential available answers. Also, free website. Forums cost money to people hosting it. They can't compete with the monetary front, when Reddit can post losses after losses every year.
Don’t forget Wikipedia! It’s proof a massive centralized platform can survive on donations.
Dude said RSS out of nowhere and brought tears to my eyes, beautiful.
I was never big on forums, and frankly I've checked out of most interactive social media things. I don't use Reddit or Twitter or anything like that. Forums could be an appealing concept, in theory. If I never caught the bug when I was younger and more interested in connecting with people, I wonder if I could get into it now that I'm older.
reddit deserve it for what they did to Swartz
Found out about Lemmy after some techy reddit communities went down. Still need to wrap my head around the Fediverse completely, but see great value in it. I do agree with the need to make it better and not a clone though. Twitter and Reddit are just good enough, but I think something inherent in their design is holding them back severely.
its basically a bunch of servers that can get content from each other via an api. pretty simple
Imagine using these dystopian platforms to begin with. Reddit having what is essentially an NPC logo should speak for itself. Also losing money is not an issue to these websites, when you're being funded by Blackrock.
Blackrock isn't limitless money. They want a return on their investment. Although in the tech industry it is widely accepted that a service might burn through money in their early years in order to rapidly expand their user base, this is only a temporary situation: The aim is to build up enough users to begin extracting money from them. This process has been termed "enshittification" - how a company will initially provide a good service by burning investment money, but eventually be forced to confront the realities of business and focus on increasing revenue with increasingly aggressive monetisation policies that worsen the service.
This is what happens when you have fragmentation on one side and unity on the other. Corporate entities have a very clear, and unified, vision on what they want the internet to be like, and are very consistent in pushing it and lobbying (=bribing) regulators for achieving it, while there is no critical mass on the side of users. Projects for saving/preserving/restoring the democratic model of the internet through FOSS and decentralised platforms have one group of people supporting them, while a majority picks convenience of using (and paying for) Twitters and Reddits, and swallowing everything Google throws at them to gradually make browsing an ever-worsening experience for increasing profits.
They had their eyes set on it for a very long time. That's why I miss the old internet. It was a place where people wanted to hang out and just have some fun. Even the Baby Boomer guys went on it to have some fun, and they formed their own communities.
I've had to go to Archive and other places to find old websites from the 2000's. Google is completely useless for searching anything, I've had to rely on smaller, more obscure search engines to find the results I'm looking for.
Things were much better on here back in 2004 than they are today in 2024.
While the situation as a whole sucks, I think it's a good thing overall because it shows people that centralized internet is very fragile and should not be trusted. With this, maybe decentralized alternatives get enough traction to be easy enough to use by most people.
most don't even have access to any alternatives because when they "google" anything the SEO is dominated by Reddit and paid media results. A new forum or the good old ones that actually answer questions are totally scuffed and buried in search (by design ).
The reddit strike has been absolute garbage from the very beginning. The strike should've been unlimited
I appreciate that you don't always offer an easy solution to these complicated modern problems. Initially I thought you were just going to shill the many current fediverse apps, but I am glad you didn't. I am mostly out of the loop when it comes to the latest scandal relating to Twitter, Reddit, etc., since I don't do social media (outside of YT). However, I do recognize the value that, for example, Reddit provides, as it sometimes has solutions not found in Stackoverflow. So, yeah, it's tough when you can, but also cannot, live without these giants.
There is not going to be a one size fits all solution for the decentralized web. However the future looks really bright.
There could be an algorithm that proportionately charges people for the amount they use the app, and as such, the users can value the service themselves.
Also, on reddit, automod went haywire awhile back and that caused a lot of problems. This also caused my account to be half suspended (if not fully) from the entire platform with only minimal functionality remaining. So, because of that issue, (which has happened to my account twice for no reason,) I've resolved to never use that broken piece of trash ever again. (time is money, and I wouldn't pay even 5 cents to be pissed off for 2 hours)
Please don't stop making content, for some reason i find your videos just informative and simple.. love that in creators
Thanks!
I think one of the best ways to explain the fediverse is with email, where you pick an email provider (instance) and can send emails (posts) to other fediverse users. Ofc it’s not a perfect analogy, but I think it’s a start
Just found your channel. Thank you bro, just learned so much. Never stop🙏🙏
Forums were better.
9:35 the idea of web forums kinda getting modernized and having the sleek UX of modern social networks is kinda what XenForo has been doing, it has feeds that show the most recent posts in all the subforums, it has notifications, it has like a microblogging feature with user status and stuff, it has post reactions
a well configured XenForo board really is the best of both worlds
Eric, you've succinctly made nearly every point in this 13-minute video that I've been trying to make for years. There's even an 11-page pinned thread on my forum about it. Unfortunately, it's been my experience that when you build it, they won't come.
Sorry, it's 10 pages. Mostly me howling into the wind. lol
2 months ago, i applied for the company persist ventures who are asking about views on socialverse whitepaper which is about decentralized social media which is a combination of reddit + tiktok and they asked other questions which were non technical and were opinion based.
I think I have a kind of interesting perspective on the whole forum debate. So I’m 18, mid-younger gen-z, just for context. I wasn’t allowed on social media as a kid, but I wasn’t so sheltered as to not know what was going on with it. I knew all about the toxic “pro-ana” stuff on tumblr and twitter, and all about how it was being cracked down on eventually. So I found myself 13 years old and developing an eating disorder. I decided i couldn’t use tumblr or twitter because I didn’t want to go against the tos and risk being banned. So I found a forum! A forum that it seemed had not changed much at all since it was created, but still had a thriving active community talking about anything related to eating disorders, mental health in general, and even just random stuff. So now I’ve been in and out of treatment for said ed, but I still frequent the forum. Since I was 13 it’s been bought by a company and had to change its name and removed a few of the extremely “pro” content, but not much has changed besides an updated gui. I love my little slice of internet where we get to talk about things that would get us banned from other social medias. And there are a whole lot of people in the 13-20ish age range there. So yeah, I think there is a future for forums coming back. At least I really hope so.
The Reddit blackout was quite ok to raise awareness outside of the reddit bubble. I wouldn't have heard of the problems without it...
Maybe making a page with a list of rss feed from forums the user is interested in could be an idea.
The forums would be separate from one another but still get all the informations in a single web page without having the hassle to visit every website each day.
What website is that at 9:48?
Most of these feeiverse sites are also bloated, except that they don't have any ads. I think that some modern looking forum (with good font and well organised site) might be a good solution.
You are the first one to talk real talk, nobody gets how much it costs to host that amount of people
What notetaking app do you use these days?
Yeah, that is one issue they need to try to offer new experiences instead of clones.
Right after you said that ads are getting worse I got one
I think the fediverse and activity pub won’t be widely adopted until the 2030s but when it does it’s gonna really change the internet. Zoomers want more customization with social media, that’s why there is a rise in fruiter aero nostalgia. Social media I think in the future will be more open and customizable as a reaction to the way things are currently.
honestly i think a decentralized web could be a nice alternative instead of the "new web". besides, the web centralized as a result of millions of people using the internet, so i cant imagine forcing everyone to use the decentralized web will work. i like to imagine users of the decentralized web will just be able to use both, instead of being delegated to one. throughout the mostpart of the internet (seince the 90's) so i imagine there will be huge websites, just used for utility, and nothing else. youtube can turn into a video hosting website, not a huge social media community. these websites make the web a lot easier, so i think its important to keep them for small things.
Only thing that changed is r/interestingasfuck turned into a porn subreddit lol
Yeah but r/piracy turned into a subreddit for John Oliver pirate photos.
I heard that one of the people behind Wikipedia is currently testing a centralised but donation driven equivalent. I haven't been able to access the tweet, though. You know... Elon being Elon. So it requires an account now. Would love for that to have been included. Would still be nice to see in a future video.
Regarding the fediverse designing better services than the current ones. I think the issue is split:
1. It requires FOSS inventors and designers to actually figure out what "better" is and implement it. Not to mention, get it adopted afterwards. Proprietary apps seem to only manage that by brute force. Let's not forget old.reddit was still reasonably well used years later.
2. Fediverses want to lure users away from the centralised apps. And the best way to do that is to offer them something they know. Just like the whole fake meat deal. Properly spiced vegetables are far better than fake meat. But if meat eaters are offered a fry-up, they are more likely to show interest than a 4 bean casserole or broccoli stir fry.
Why mastodon or lemmy are just clones? Well, because they are created by technicians, not by sales, marketing or just visionary people. I encountered this problem myself. I can recreate almost any piece of this kind of software. However I lack brave ideas or imagination, or if I have any, i quickly ditch them or not pursue them, because I'm like: nah, nobody will use it. We are too practical people, and that comes with lack of bravery to create something completely new/wild.
I like the idea of membership-based forums. Let's see if it occurs.
We can utilize smart contracts on the Ethereum platform to build decentralized websites
Deviantart eclipse shenanigans can be another example of this?
Maybe a mix of both can work to make those platforms more popular like using youtube to create your user base and then directing them out of with time can work with time?
If I was a content creator and want my video viewed on full extentent when youtube don't want to monetize it or get out offline for some unfair reason using those platforms can be a solution in this case I guess, well as long you don't actually break any real laws.
we need something like grayjay to be popular
@@007Strings007 I don't know what grayjay is
Im tech person all the way but seeing so many servers for feddyverses i never signed up cause there is so many and i have no idea which to choose
They definitely need to improve their marketing to make it easier to understand
You made me interested in lemmy. Checked out the first instance I could find out of curiosity. One of the top voted posts is something about "we're trans, you're either with us or against us" right at the top. Like, jesus, it's not even that I disagree with their stance, but I'm not really interested in a place where the first thing you declare is that you're an echo chamber. Maybe there's a reason after all we let big tech moderate these social media for us.
Had the same experience with Lemmy and KBin myself, seems like they are heavily infested with r/politics types that you would find on Reddit.
Like it's one thing to care about social issues and politics, but these are the types of person who can be real zealots about it.
Honestly I feel like at this point Reddit needs to exist, if only to serve as a containment zone for all these types.
I barely use social media as is now so if they went defunct I wouldn't really be losing a lot of sleep since most of the people I stay in touch with know how to contact me outside of those sites.
Lemmy works great as a reddit clone btw. Pixelfed is 90% there too. Mastodon is near perfect in my opinion.
i stopped using twitter and reddit, i only exclusively use fedi now uwu
Old Mr Krabs once said "Money Money Money"
There has to be a new way for those centralized webapps to be profitable. I would suggest that browser crypto mining could be an answer.
Nostr > Lemmy
well i got banned off entire platform for insulting someone in r/fightsub and there are people saying even worse things than i did and they still continue their rampage
I connect financial loss with tax avoidance scheme, since decade big tech thrive despite logic
The money part is a bit wrong. is not that "it doesn't work", is that it takes a long time to work in niche Social Media like Twitter and Reddit. And even on this absurdly long business cycle of the 2010's, with low interest rates, they didn't made it through.
Now,interest rates are high and investors are not willing to lose money on it.
Good, fuck centralization
we need something like grayjay to be popular
ive got 7 permabans on reddit and 1 permaban on twitter.
Why decentralize web can't groe for now. They don't have business model. What the point of alt social media where you only say but no one heard?
I was never reddit enthusiast, and tbh i dont care, but I have a account , so maybe i should deleted it for a cause :P
So they will lose even more money
*laughing on Revanced Reddit*
What's Reddit and why should I care?
im am a zommer and i want forums!!!
REVOLUTION REVOLUTION
'better user interface of reddit' wow, you lost me there, their interface is literally the worst of all most popular web sites.
long live lemmy!
Too bad most of the fediverse right now is just woke trash. There isn't much good content on the main instances and finding an active secondary instance is very hard.
This is why things like decentralized apps and crypto matter
Yeah, the nerd squad from Mastodon and Lemmy is in no position to serve normie refugees from Twitter and reddit, unfortunately. I'm pretty nerdy and I was puzzled too when I recently visited the Lemmy site for the first time - major Linux vibes, which is a bad sign indeed for any mass appeal. It's the usual story of a wonderful technical and philosophical foundation with the most important elements for attracting a new audience lacking - value and convenience. These communities badly need some Steve Jobses thinking about end-user experience along with the idealistic programmers.
I think one thing about decentralizing the internet would have to be managing user expectations. You are not going to be able to have multi-hour streaming HD videos on small private websites like you can on RUclips. Something Awful has been profitable for 20+ years but it's also by modern standards an extremely limited platform, barely more functional than it was in the early 2000s. If it were anything more than a big vBulletin forum, it would cost too much to run. Also people used to rules lawyering about "free speech" or the details of bureaucratic content policies are going to be in for a shock when they come up against the personalistic dictatorship of traditional forum mods. There was no "freedom" on a traditional forum or IRC channel--if the mods and admin (usually one admin who owned the site) didn't like you, they would throw you out, and if you appealed they would laugh at you. They had no one to answer to and no growth metrics to meet, so they generally operated as petty tyrants who made no bones about being petty tyrants. Read the forum rules of stardestroyer.net to get an idea of what content moderation used to be like twenty years ago--it was harsh and capricious, and those sites that were not harsh and capricious often became hideous troll pits--something like LUE/ETI would make most 4channers cry.
But frankly, I think in terms of healthy, fulfilling social interaction, nothing actually beats real spaces where people interact in their physical bodies. The disembodiment and alienation of the internet goes against pretty much all natural human social instincts and brings out the absolute worst in human beings. I think society would benefit immensely if the internet as a whole shrank and occupied less importance in people's lives.
It did not happen :( Reddit™ won
Imagine having such little respect for yourself that you use reddit.
Unfortunately sometimes the only place you can find the answer to something is on some obscure subreddit. Obviously you should never scroll through reddit for fun
Reddit is gay so who cares
Go woke go broke
i think that something like tapatalk is perfect - one centralized app for decentralized forums. i just wish there were better working alternatives for it lol
tbh i would just use less social media in general
RUclips won't die as easily 🥱