Tau vs Pi Smackdown - Numberphile
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- Опубликовано: 13 дек 2012
- Our Pi Playlist (more videos): bit.ly/PiPlaylist
Steve Mould (tau) and Matt Parker (pi) go head-to-head.
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See our tau video: • Tau replaces Pi - Numb...
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Matt Parker: www.standupmaths.com/
Steve Mould: www.stevemould.com/
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I'm confident we can all adopt tau as quickly as the US adopts the metric system.
Per Wagenius and a dozenal (base12) number system
Barkspawn Isn't that just bi-decimal?
Empty Bodies It's "duodecimal", but the argument against using that terminology is it implies base 10 is the reference point. Saying "dozenal" implies the dozen (12) is the reference point, which makes sense given the proposition in the first place.
Doge Woof Yep! Most commonly used in the hue identification of colours, known as the "hex" value!
MikeM8891
4:41
score.
At 6:28 (tau minutes), the score spells out the first four decimal digits of pi.
THAT...is beautiful
The first four decimal digits are 3141.
The first four decimal *places* are 1415.
@@felixroux The whole no. is 3.1415 and so on, the score is the first four decimal digits i.e 1415. Get it?
@@muditbelwal3960 also, they were pointing out that the correct term is decimal places. "decimal digits" is another way of simply saying digits, so "the first four decimal digits of pi" are 3141. meanwhile, decimal places (also informally called decimals) specifically refer to the digits to the right of the decimal point, so "the first four decimal places of pi" are 1415.
Its not tau minutes, tau minutes would be 6 mins and around 14 seconds
"If you want a unit to measure things, the unit shouldn't be the whole thing"
-- Matt Parker
Considering the unit circle is defined as reaching its full radius at 1, why wouldn't you use another multiple-of-1 as the unit for angles too? You went all the way around at Tau, you go half way around at (1/2)Tau.
It's a Parker unit :P
Even worse is when he says "Tau gets you nowhere. Pi gets you somewhere." as if the end being different from the start is all that should matter on a journey. Like, _a circle is a round trip. In every sense._
percentages : I am going to end this man's whole career
Mathematician Matt Parker objects to "normalising" data... Hmmm...
TAU makes 100% sense
PI makes 50%*2 sense
@@christydavidpallanivel1708 I think the joke flew over your head.
@@christydavidpallanivel1708 that's the joke
Unity achieved, twice
@Venkat Vallabhaneni I think the joke circled his head
@@christydavidpallanivel1708 How do you miss that joke? Just how?
Imagine, the days before youtube, 780,000 people sitting in this room, to listen to these two men talk about numbers
Man those were the days...
now over a million
@@leo17921 it would have been a freaking stadium!
xXPORTALXx an empty million seater stadium with just the odd guy popping in now and again while the kettle boils..
1.2 million
7:53 "In that case divide it by 360" - Steve
"Now you've just gone too far, no one would use that kind of a unit!" - Matt
I feel like this is underappreciated.
+Josh O'fortune I think so too. It's such a true statement. I truly want to know who came up with such a ridiculous measurement as degrees for angles. While we're at it, I'd like to know why degrees Fahrenheit exists, and everything else in the Imperial measurement system.
Noah Dale
The metric system certainly is more practical, but from a more abstract perspective, it's not much better than the other systems. Why water? why not nitrogen or some other thing? Can we ever perfectly measure the temperature of water when it freezes or boils?
Kelvin is better, because of its base point, but the size of its units are still based on water.
Then when we move on to our other metric units. 1000m = 1km. This is based on base ten, precisely, 10^3.
But base ten is yet another arbitrary decision. Binary, dozenal, hexavigesimal, there are any number of options. (although dozenal is more useful than decimal often...)
The point is, most of our units are, in the end, arbitrarily chosen, so when one is not, it is extra special.
Josh O'fortune Water is a clear choice for a measurement system. Humans have used water since... literally the beginning of the species since we need it to live. Since we can frequently see water in all three forms of matter, it makes a lot of sense to make a measurement. Most everything else appears in only one or two forms at conventional temperatures, especially when compared to substances regular people actually care about.
Base ten is *waaaaaayyyyy* too obvious. Count and use your fingers to track your count. If you decide using a different marker than 10 is a better system, let me know.
Josh O'fortune Considering dogs aren't going to be tracking the temperature accurately any time soon, I'm pretty sure an objective approach *is* the one that is easiest for humans to use,
That's just the same argument from the Numberphile video on base 12. I agree entirely that using base 12 is better for everyday life, as argued in the aforementioned video, but that's sadly not where humans started counting. It's less intuitive (from a learning from the beginning perspective) to start counting by cutting your finger into 3 pieces and counting the pieces than to simply count the whole finger.
אבהו דלשר Well then why did "ancient people" use base 60?
i love how they just switch to the base 12 system at the end because both Steve and Matt were like "Yeah, that's better"
But it leaves something to be desired. 10 is divided by 2 and 5, while 12 is divided by 4 and 3, 4 being 2 squared. So while it is better in nearly every way thanks to the fact it has more factors, it still equally leaves something to be desired in the amount of different prime numbers it has. So instead of 2 and 5 or 2, 2, and 3, I say we have a system of base 2, 3, and 5, or base 30. It may be difficult to memorize, but it will otherwise be better than base 10 and 12 in pretty much every way.
And if you wanted a better base numbering system, base 210 would do the trick. Alas, the feeble human mind holds us back from reaching such a system. Even if we somehow created 210 unique symbols, there is no way you could memorize all of them, so 30 is the best we can do.
@@aguyontheinternet8436The Babylonians had base 60 which is twice 30 so yea that's been done before
Surely the base of the numbering system is arbitrary, any will do.
but the very intelligent people at reddit told me that the imperial system is bad because america stinky!!!!
Technically the babylonians had base sixty, but not really, they only really had two symbols that they combined a bunch@cuitaro
I love that "we used to sacrifice goats" was 2 points for tau.
WHO WON? WHO'S NEXT? YOU DECIDE! EPIC MATH BATTLES OF HISTORY!
I'd watch it.
Maπ won because he's unbeatable in Wii Sports. Meanwhile Sτeve is someone jacksepticeye believed in until he started supporting τ-Series over PewDieπ.
i am the 315th like
It was a pi... I mean a tau... I mean a tie!
Wouldn’t it be Epic Talk Battles of Math?
is this the maths version of a rap battle?
+Bo Byrd Add a beautiful piece of classical symphony beat they could get a record deal!
+Gianluca Tartaro How?
+Bo Byrd
Without the rapping.
+Bo Byrd Nah. That's what we humans call "discussion"
+Bo Byrd I think you are about 2500 years late for experiencing the hardcore math-battles. Once a group of mathematicians called "Pythagoreans" drowned a guy because he was about to tell the world that there are numbers that can't be described by a fraction ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The integration thing was really cool. so many physics formulas are 0.5*something*something else ^2 and its nice to preserve that pattern
line kinetic energy
@@erykpakula Yep, exactly. Because kinetic energy is the derivative of momentum, which is mv. We describe the arc length of a circle as 2pi*r, but it would make a lot more sense if the arc length was just tau*r. And then the derivative of that arc length is 0.5*tau*r^2, which is area. Just makes sense.
1:20 I love how he says shut up so secretively lol
Matt deserved it lol
Mathematicians dont memorize digits of numbers, and just cause he struggles to recite three digits doesn't mean he hasn't done his research about tau and pi
2 points for "historically, we've slaughtered goats" is my favorite
This seems like the scoring of QI, or maybe that one task in the first series of Taskmaster taking place in the Squash court.
Or rode the goat
Matt got 1 point for saying "wow"
Matt's name should've been spelled as Matt πarker.
Maybe we should switch to F (wau), instead 🤔.
@@carultch Indeed 😁👍🏻.
Steve got 2 points for saying we used to sacrifice goats (8:28)
he got so many points for nothing
This video completely changed my view. I'm team tau now. I never thought of the fact that 1/x of a circle was tau/x radians.
That fact alone gives victory to tau in my opinion.
Do you know much my math teacher struggled to teach my other classmates about radians and stuff? He almost got himself comfused
Exactly, like a whole circle being 2pi never made sense to me as a kid. I didn't know tau existed but I did always feel like a whole circle should've been 1 _something_ rather than 2 _something._ Matt's point about measurement also makes sense though. But engineers are dealing with hard math anyways, they can handle dividing a measured diameter by 2 to find the radius, or using tau/2 in equations. Tau is just more intuitive for someone learning about angles and circles.
Why would circumference be more important than area? Are is what matters most of the time. And that’s in units of Pi.
*23 - 27*
"There are more advantages if we switch to base 12, than if we switched to tau"
*ding*
*1E - 23*
BoldFace Seven, but Isn't that an error? A means ten, B means eleven, now in base twelve, the digits 10 means twelve, so 1B equals twelve plus eleven, which back in base 10 means 23. The E is used as a digit in base 16 (which ist more relevant to computer science) and stands for fourteen. The F for fifteen (=10-1 in base 16). Base twelve doesn't need E,F, it just needs A,B as extra digits (for ten, and respectively for eleven = 10-1). Has the video editor confused base 12 with base 16? Or am I missing something else?
Hmmm maybe they use Epsilon to signify digit "eleven" in English?
@@franzlyonheart4362 base 12's 'extra' digits don't use the alphabet like base 16 instead use a 'dec' (looks like x, means 10) and 'elle' (looks like E, means 11) with '10' being pronounced 'dough' and meaning 12
So 1E is 'dough elle' (12 and 11, 23)
murtada xxh5, thanks, I figured it out myself by watching one of his other videos. Too computer-centric!
@@cd8048 nineteen, doughteen, elleteen, twenty?
I say we use Pau, which is 1.5 pi or 3/4 tau.
Adam Freed Pau is a name of food.. Steamed fluffy white bun stuffed with delicious whatever you want to put.. haha
compromises are great.
It will be so confusing then eg:-if u want to find the circumference it will be :-
5/4 pau radius
Tau or pi will be something like this :- tau r and 2 pi r
Ur "pau" is way too confusing.
No hate ^_^
Have a nice day everyone!
Eh, in Portuguese, "pau" means a piece of wood, with a corresponding phallic meaning in the vulgar usage. This would make math formulas sound... weird.
I say we use T'Pau, which is China in Your Hands.
This calls for an epic rap battle.
Agreed.
Taxation is theft
lol an ancap
Hey voluntaryanist
Lemon Party I thought that was what this was
Let's just forget about all this and
π=3.2
τ = 6.4
π = e = √g = 3
π=4
Yes it is genius and of course I can circle the square
pi=tau=4=e=2e
loved how the scores switched to base 12 too, great detail
2Pi or not 2Pi... That's the question...
BroFist! I think the real question is Tau or not to Tau
AvesGames Well... If you think about it "2Pi or not 2Pi" makes more more sense, since the original line from Hamlet is "to be or not to be". Im not sure if you are aware of that?
I wrote a persuasive essay on this subject for a class years ago, and I regret not thinking of that for a title.
Not 2pi
This is one of the best jokes I’ve ever heard
"A unit shouldn't be the whole thing."
Somebody forgot what units are.
Tau would be much more easily to understand as a whole circle than having to remember it's 2 pi all the time
You say that as if we measure a day as 1/365th of a unit
I never forget my unit!
You do know that there's a reason we say there are 365.25 days in a year right? It's not like that is an arbitrary number.
@@BoldFaceSeven And a year is a full revolution of the earth around the sun, not half of one, because that's the more useful measurement.
It's funny to imagine that neither the Mould Effect nor the Parker Square were known back when this video was made.
I mean, those things have become so closely associated with these guys that it feels pretty strange to imagine that there even was a time when they weren't known.
"Insufficiently right" sounds like the math equivalent of "bless your heart" both in the insulting way and the honest heartwarming way.
in that case divide it by 360
no one would use that kind of a unit.
noscope
The funny thing is that people use it all the time
+Robin Bernardinis That's the joke.
Yes.
Um, that kind of a unit is used all the time. A degree in terms of radians is 2pi/360 or pi/180. And degrees are used all the time whether it is in trig or geometry or engineering, they all use degrees. In fact I think in degrees and convert to radians later on.
"Tau gets you nowhere." - 7:27 absolutely loving this!
hate pi love tau
This, along with Steve's reactions to Matt's points here, is my favorite part of the video.
WYSI
When you see it 🤣
@@seanordonez9208 goddamnit!!!
Cause of
WW1: Assassination of
Archduke Franz Ferdinand
WW2: It is complicated
WW3: Pi vs Tau
Interesting coincidence: the day of the assassination was Tau Day. Imagine if World War III also started on Tau Day.
"Historically, we sacrificed goats"
* 2 points* XD
This is ridiculous. What would we bake on tau day ? :p
+Columini you can grill a beef steak. ;)
+Columini 2pies?!... i'll shut up now
+Columini T-bones obviously
+Columini We would bake 2 pies. :p
+Columini
"Tau" means "dew" in German. So I don't know what you would bake but I do know what you should drink ;)
When the scores changed to be in base 12 was probably the best part.
Steve: Blah Blah Blah
Steve gets 1 point
Matt: Wow
Matt gets 1 point
I remember being continually confused when learning to use radians because of the /2 and having to convert back to degrees to get a picture of how large a given angle was. E.g. 3pi/2 - you can work it out, but I think it would just be simpler to say (3/4)tau
I love how they got some of their points just for delivering sick burns. XD
Matt got a point for saying Wow
i hate it
@@yonaoisme Don't, the points aren't meant to be taken very seriously. They even switched the points to base 12 at the end, which is just hilarious
I love how the scoring changed to base 12 at the end :p
Yes, I genuinely LOLed at that, and I rarely LOL.
“This tells us something!” - Steve Mould
These two became two of my all-time favorite youtube personalities completely independently of each other. It's such a heartwarming trip to see a video over a decade old of them arguing about this. Outstanding.
I had a really hard time understanding radians and getting an intuition for angles in radians in terms of pi. Once I heard it explained in terms of tau, I understood instantly. Pi totally screwed me learning trig in high school.
when Matt said "the unit shouldn't be the whole thing" his score should've been halved...
tgwnn yeah!! What do you mean the unit shouldn't be the whole thing?! That's the definition of unit ONE WHOLE THING
@@valeweinmann9907 Oh come on, the whole thing?! That's absurd. I propose: From now on, we measure time in 7th of a day!
/s
mr saxophon we already measure time in 24ths of a day.
...and 60ths of 24ths of days.
And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of days.
And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of 7ths of weeks.
And 60ths of 60ths of 24ths of 7ths of 52ths of years.
We do this.
Yes!
James Michael Hoosier is we just used half days and didn’t complain about it, then, yeah, that’d work.
I think we should call pi/4 (or tau/8) "pizza." Because:
- It is the ratio of crust length slice length on an idealized pizza cut into eight slices
- it is the ratio of pizza area to pizza box area, given a perfectly circular pizza that fits snugly into a perfectly square pizza box.
- you can't spell 'pizza' without 'pi.'
- if people want to complete the pattern we could also then call pi/2 = tau/4 'tauzza.'
The problem with suddenly using tau is that a lot of people (physicists, engineers, etc) already use tau as the symbol for a time constant. They also use it as a dummy integration variable when integrating an equation from, say, zero to t.
Jared Coltharp pi is also used in things like molecular orbitals
Tau is generally the symbol for torque
You know you've been watching too much Numberphile when you get excited that both of their scores are primes.
yep
Why does one have to be better, this is like arguing "8 is better than 4 because most of the time, instead of writing 2x4, you can just write 8." and the rebuttal is "Well, what if you want to write 2+2=4, then it would be awkward to write 2+2=8/2" yes, yes it would, and that's why we have both.
Rainbow Pigeon I thought the same while i was watching.
Like this 123Pi456Tau789 10? I like both also!
Rainbow Pigeon you obviously dont get the joke in this vid
Greko Fesh Hmm, maybe I don't, could you explain?
Rainbow Pigeon
they act like it's a rapbattle, while they discuss about nerdy stuff like math, although it obviously doesn't make too much sense to fight over these two numbers.
I was never sold on Tau until I watched this video.
Thanks Steve.
Hahaha the moment when you switch the scoreboard to base 12 notation was the most subtly epic thing I've ever seen.
Um, e^i(tau) = 1, which is actually way cooler because it essentially means, "one full turn is one"
yep.
Woah, that is cool!
But you can't even know that you did a full turn, there's nothing hinting you that you left 1. If you learn e^i(tau) = 1, and you try e^i(tau/2) you would think it would be 1^(1/2) which is 1, but that's wrong. With pi you learn this is -1, and you also know if you try pi/2 you get (-1)^2 = i. You lose all this by using tau.
@@lumer2b have you not seen the derivation of this identity? the derivation of this identity makes it pretty clear that you did do a full rotation.
@@lumer2bA person should know better than to use real number exponent rules for complex numbers. If they don't, that's on them.
Also, the statement (-1)^2 = i is false. (-1)^2 is actually equal to 1. I think you mean (-1)^(1/2) = i.
Solution: Use whichever one is best for whatever you're doing. Argument over.
Not really. If you used tau people wouldn't know what you were talking about. It has to be standardized.
@@numbo655 "tau = pi * 2" isn't really that hard to tell everyone. Saying people won't know what tau means is like saying everyone has to say "1/100 of a meter" because people won't know what centimeters are.
1:20 my man really just got a point just by saying "wow"
How did matt get a point just for saying "wow" ?? 😂😂😂
Actually I think we really ought to stop saying we have a half-dozen items and instead say that we have a double-few items. It promotes positive thinking.
I agree
+thought2007 We could just say 6.
but why do it the easy way?
Shadowman599 Because it's easier.
+thought2007 Few is greater than OR equal to 3, so would make more sense to say three couples (because a couple is always 2). Next time you go to the donut shop tell them you're getting a double-three-couples.
Why does τ only have one "leg" and π has two "legs" when τ=2π? Can we please switch the symbols?
SkydiverTyler they're greek letters... not made to serve the purpose of being a mathematical constant
+Jasper Kole exactly....btw iam greek^^
Agreed
Tau people think about it like this:
The horizontal "bar" in τ and π is like a fraction bar. If you reduce the denominator in a fraction by a factor of two, the fraction gets multiplied by two. 2 legs in π reduced by a fraction of 2 = 1 leg in τ = 1 leg in 2π.
Brilliant
I just use tau when I'm talking about things like sine wave periods and other trig stuff, and pi for the other stuff. But really I just use them both pretty much interchangeably. If I'm talking about pi or half tau, I write pi because you only have to write one thing. If I'm talking about tau or two pi, I write tau because you only have to write one thing. I think schools should teach both and they'll just be equally useful. It's not even something you have to bring in slowly. The only thing you'd have to do would be to say "oh, and by the way, you can just write two pi as tau" and that's it. It's incredibly simple. Circumference? Tau times r. Area? Pi r squared. Period of sin, cos, csc and sec? Tau. Period of tan and cot? Pi. They're constants. So if you can multiply two numbers together and get a single number, do it. Writing two pi or half tau to me seems like leaving 2 cubed as 2 cubed instead of just writing eight. Sometimes that stuff is useful to leave unsimplified; things like three hundred to the power of 256. But when you can write one symbol instead of two, why not do it?
I'm amazed at that comeback from 5 - 11 to 11 - 11 and then even going into the lead for a second!
Love the way the scores switch to Base 12 at the end!
I think I wish Tau won the VHS/Betamax wars but we're lumped with PI now.
"The unit shouldn't be the whole thing." CONCEPT FAIL. We don't use radians to circles. We use radians to measure revolutions. Seriously, has Matt here gotten past elementary school geometry?
Okay, rude.
since the circumference is tau x r, we should build a tower on tau day!?
2021: π is now known to τ×10¹³ digits. This took the best part of 4 months to calculate. Such dedication to π vs τ trolling.
USE PI WHEN IT WORKS BETTER AND USE TAU WHEN IT WORKS BETTER
This was a cute video, though. :-D
I like that Matt makes half his points while doing nothing.
+Pyagrl*16 I noticed matts point making too
"Why are we getting so emotional about our irrationals when we should be getting more radial about our base systems." brilliant lol OK now do Base 10 vs Base 12
doodelay, they already did a video on the history of base 10 and base 12, just not in this format
Base 12 wins easily
Base 6 ftw
Let's just switch to base 60 already
Base 10 is easier to teach to kids.
The day has come. I was completely enthralled with a video about maths.
"Both of them have advantages and disadvantages" -> Matt gets 3 points
Biased
I wonder if people who prefer pi over tau think we should measure frequency in "half cycles"...
RFC3514 I do
I prefer Pi but I measure frequency in full cycles
When tau is more used, someone says, "When we use tau, we see τ/2 often. Let's use pi insterd of τ/2. "
Matt: "the unit shouldn't be the whole thing"
Me: Stares in Unit Circle.
This is still one of the biggest robberies I've seen on RUclips. Steve had this in the bag.
I was expecting blood and gore by the end of the video
+xZerplinxProduction What if this was what our politicians fought about rather than whatever they're fighting about right now
I'd much rather have a factor of 2 in some equations than a 1/2 in some equations...whole numbers are much nicer to deal with.
pi looses its efficiency when working with the trigonometric graphs tho. i spend over a minute on them.
Oh lord i havnt watched this video in so long. Both Steve and Matt are so young.
The score swapping to base 12 at the end when Matt makes the base 12 argument is still hillarious.
I love how they end up giving each other points.
"Tau gets you NOWHERE." xDD!
Pi is only simpler if you're already accustomed to the arithmetic abstraction of pi. If you are describing anything in physics there is nowhere that half a revolution makes more sense as a unit than a whole revolution.
I like how Tau just fits into Steve's name like Pi does into Matt's.
Ah yes, 2/3 if my favorite comedic trio: Steve and Map
poor map
Tau is twice as large as Pi, but it looks like you cut Pi in half to get Tau.
gabe juhasz
yea that just gets confusing
Yeah you get used to it. The other option was adding two more lines to make it look more like a H
Imagine it like a "circle over 1" and a "circle over 2"
So if Tau won would Numberphile have changed their logo?
the first example matt showed with euler's identity at 2:15 is bad because it also works with tau just as beautifully
e^iπ + 1 = 0
e^iτ - 1 = 0
As a crochet/knitter, I absolutely love base 12 and use it for the vast majority of my stitch patterns!
Isn't fighting between tau and pi, like fighting between kilogram and gram?
Meh.
It would be fighting between a kilogram and a half-kilogram
+Liam Borella no kilogram and 2 kilograms
+Liam Borella
the Half-kilogramm is called metric pound :)
Kilo and 500gram
I think we should use the complete turn as the standard unit of angle size.
the complete tau - n, that is
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_(geometry)
I do.
and the symbol for a turn is obviously τ
I've thought about this, but I think tau/pi are better since radians are defined using them, and radians are the only unit for measuring angles where d/dx(sinx)=cosx, which is very useful
I got a phone call in the middle of this video and by chance stopped the video at 6:28. I'm proud of that.
Hey, I'm curious, I saw a video recently by 3blue1brown where he showed in an idealized physics simulation if you send a larger mass towards a smaller mass and a wall it bounces back and forth a certain number of times. And if you do it for powers of 100 it actually will give you the digits of pi with more precision with higher numbers. Is there a change to the set up that would also let it count tau? or are fun little "pop up randomly" situations that happen with pi only with pi?
I think I can help. Have a cheese sandwich.
I like the base twelve switch at the end
I love the reaction of Matt when Steve is talking, it's like ''wtf you talkin about''
No, it's more like he understands exactly what he's talking about, and he understands that he is talking about an absolutely absurd idea, and framing it in a way where it does not immediately appear so.
this whole conversation was awesome
Ah, yes, my favourite Numberphile hosts, Staueve and Mapi.
Its very simple to me
Tau makes the meaning of equations at the forefront. Wherever you see tau you see there has been a complete circle or a complete cycle or something of that manner.
Any time an equation is simpler with pi its because a meaning has been obscured.
Its not just about education, its about making your own results and your own findings clearer, and making a richer understanding of the results of others more immediate.
I think the argument about expressing radians as fractions of a whole circle really clinches superiority of Tau.
I got points off on a test once for using the 1/2 pi r^2 because I mixed it up with the position equation for acceleration, x=1/2 at^2. And they're derived the same way. The only reason that they're not the same is because we use pi instead of tau.
It's upsetting that you keep giving Matt numbers for Steve making mistakes. Yeah he was taught under Pi so he's obviously going uphill talking about Tau. That's not an argument in favor of Pi or Tau.
Oh c'mon please tell me you didn't take the scoring system seriously!
***** No no no. Not even a little. I was just having a moment of pedanticness lol
+Darris Hawks Sorry for seeing this so late! I still feel the need to tell you this though, Matt got a point for saying "Wow". ;_;
Well, I'm a Tau guy, but I did laugh out loud when I saw Steve's integral.
I'm for pi! And here's why (from a physics rather than Maths point of view).
When you talk about interference of waves we use pi radians to describe if it's constructive or destructive interference.
For destructive it's π radian out of phase it's destructive if it's 2π it's constructive. Using Tau will create fractions and really detracts from the unit. I agree with Matt, it makes more sense to use π as it allows it to be a better unit. Encompassing something takes something away.
Pi is everywhere from Hawking's equations to Coulomb's law (where k is 1/4πe0). It's for this reason that Steve's notion of it not being a just one unit is redundant. If we used Tau we'd get 4τ and 2τ so it doesn't actually "solve" anything.
From a mathematical point of view, Tau is really the superior choice, but I really think it's pointless to change all the books at this point. Tau is more "natural", but Pi is what the mathematicians of old went with, so it's what we go with.
Prince Istalri Have you noticed how Tau's symbol is half of pi's symbol even though tau is two pi?
AlchemistOfNirnroot
Maybe you can look at the "legs" as denominators, with Tau being Tau/1, and Pi being Tau/2 :P
Prince Istalri My vision, in ruin...
AlchemistOfNirnroot
Still.. Tau wins. In a perfect world, Tau would have the Pi symbol assigned to it.
That switch to 1Ɛ - 23 really got me. :D
I like to think the reason they're sitting in an empty restaurant is that they met up for dinner, started discussing Pi vs Tau and now it's well after closing and all the staff are in the kitchen waiting for these two mathematicians to stop arguing and go home so they can close up shop.
Well you see, it was thanks to them that the servers could close down at all.
You see, while they were talking, someone came in and ordered half a drink, then another came and ordered a fourth of a drink, then another ordered an eighth of a drink. The server asked the third man how many people were coming in, and he said there was an infinite line of people in his group, with an exponentially decaying thirst. The servers thought they would be serving people drinks forever. . .
until Matt tells them to pour a single drink and give it to the first guy, getting him to pass the drink out to his group until everyone was satisfied.
I'm sorry it's 3:30 AM I am probably not even going to remember writing this.
So... Tau is a Parker Square?
+Owen Prescott More like parker circle
Oooh that is savage
YhehHEHEhEhheHEHE
gO tO tRuThcONtEstcOM, Read THe pREseNt
I would argue that Pi is a Parker Radius.
+SmileyMPV
I _knew_ someone would say "Parker Circle". xD
the points system on this is less rational than the points system on QI
Dat joke
@@Cyamond Thanks for PIcking up on that!
As great as tau is, pi has become universally known for its constant, and is usually seen as such. Tau, on the other hand is commonly used to indicate torques, shear stresses, and time constants. Feel like there is potential for conflict and confusion when using it.
π is used as prime density function, and other density function in statistics too.
Why would you think that is a new problem? I've seen mathematicians use e for things other than the famous transcendental number used in exponential things, i is used for things other than the sqrt of -1, and very rarely, I've seen pi as the name of functions instead of a circle constant. It wasn't a huge problem for any of those symbols, so Tau is probably fine
@@aguyontheinternet8436 Nah man I disagree it would really clutter physics up
The fact that the t's in their names fit perfectly for what they're arguing
This video is very pi biased. All Matt is doing is commenting on how "wrong" Steve is and he's getting points..
EverythingReviewer99 Steve is also part of Numberphile, isn't he? So it should've been more of a fair fight.
...Well if you can point out that your opponent is wrong about something, that is a con on their side. And if you aren't removing any points, ever, then the con of one side should become a pro for the other side, or else you're being unfair and ignoring cons.
***** How does that logic make sense? It doesn't. How could a con on one side become a pro on the other? Even if you aren't removing points..?
Dorian Arcia If you're comparing two things, and compiling all the pros and cons into a lump sum of points, cons should logically deduct, while pros add, to acknowledge and show that the cons have a negative impact on the overall quality of the thing in question. But, if you do not deduct points, you logically add the negative points of the cons, to the other thing's sum of points, as positive instead of negative, so the cons of one thing still have a detrimental effect on the overall outcome for the thing that is overall worse. For example, let's say I have two apples. Both are the kind of apple I like, so they both get one point. Both are of a decent size, so they both get one point. But, one of them's beginning to rot. Now, under the assumption that all pros and cons, no matter how severe, are all equal to one point, and I am not removing points from either apple for any reason, then the only way to continue to be fair would be to add one point to the non-rotten apple, to show that, so far, it is better than the rotten one. If I didn't add the point, it would be claiming a rotten apple and a non-rotten apple were equal.
***** It's one or the other. You can not use both. That's just confusing
As someone easily confused by mathematics, I bloody love Tau. It's so much more intuitive and easy to understand how it relates to stuff when it crops up than Pi is. Who cares that occasionally you wind up with equations that are Tau over 2 instead of just Pi when that Tau relates so much better to its subject; radians in a circle?
For me, at least, Pi actually is wrong, in that it is wrong to inflict it on people learning maths.
All that talk of pi, plus the sound of a ringing bell, made my mouth water…
Drips saliva:
*Pavlov intensified*
Its clear that Matt was the one editing and giving points.
As a student who always struggled terribly with Maths, I would have appreciated the concept of Tau, seriously. Im not getting into more sophisticated question because I hage no idea, but on a basic, pedagogical levl, Tau seems to work much better.