I've been an LDS leader my whole life. Deacons quorum president, teachers quorum president, 1st priest to the Bishop, Eagle Scout, Trainer, District Leader, Zone Leader, Assistant to the President on my mission, Young Men's President, and Elders Quorum Secretary now in my ward. I have never understood the complete picture you, Mike, and others are painting on this series. Mike, I'm very grateful for your deep knowledge. John, I'm grateful for your platform and ability to direct quality discussion. I appreciate the truths, facts, and greater light and knowledge this series has brought.
One might well ask the Grand Dragon, who are you outside the Klan. Being important in a system that lies to and abuses it's members is ultimately not important as all.
Wow Jarrett your a very busy guy. The church gets so much of your time. You are working hard for that Salvation ❤️ how many are depending on you to get that job done? A lot of pressure.
As a never mormon, I find the multiple cohosts extremely valuable. It helps give more context as to how these things were taught to and perceived by members. I also just enjoy everyones opinions and commentary, no matter how long it takes! ❤️
Do yourself a favor and stop thinking of yourself as an "as a"... Everyone is an "as a"... As a blah blah, I'm blah blah blah because of blah blah. Lame.
I don't understand how never being Mormon would make "multiple cohorts" more valuable, but I do agree with you that the numerous and diverse accusatory fingers are all pointing to the same giant lie.
I can see Joshua Thompson’s point. If Good took away the gold plates and the spectacles after 116 pages had lost, God could also take away Joseph Smiths’ power to see things using his seer stone then. Mike, what do you think?
@@joshuathompson1357 Yes it an argument. He couldn't remember what he previously invented so moved on hoping people who buy his BS. You don't seriously believe the plates actually existed do you with reformed egyptian on them do you? I have a bridge you might like to buy.
@@joshuathompson1357 That's not rudeness. Direct talking not your thing then. My original comment was 100% relevant. You were the one who butted in and tried to make out it wasn't. Joseph Smith was a conman. The fact that he wouldn't retranslate the 116 pages because he was afraid of being caught out is pertinent to all discussions about Mormon BS. You can not seriously believe in this day and age that his story about plates is true? You'll be telling me next the Book of Abraham is genuine.
When I went through seminary as a teen, I remember thinking these same things, but the second I voiced my questions and concerns about these issues, I was immediately shut down and told that it was Satan causing me to question Joseph Smith and that one day God would share his reasoning for letting this happen.
Personally I love the longer content !!! the more the better!!!! I left the church almost 6 years ago and still devour these episodes. I think a lot of people who have left the church and people who have never been a part of the church would be interested in more details. It's just so fascinating!
What makes this series special to me is your willingness to take time with people (and with the content), going in depth. We're surrounded by sound bites, stripped of context and nuance. My vote - go for it!
This series has been eye opening and I almost want to say that it's been life changing. I've been addicted and I would love to see more. These have been my favorite episodes of Mormon Stories. Thank you!
The way you presented this episode was perfect! John I love the way you repeat things for clarification; it helps me digest the information better. Please keep these shows coming thick and fast. Your number one fan from the Land Down Under.
The constant repeating, clarification and reiterating I ultimately find incredibly frustrating and harder to follow. I have no background with the church or church history. I find that I need to pause the pop cast to go to LDS discussions website to read the text of what is trying to be presented. Let mike get through his presentation and then have a discussion.
I personally really like the cross talk with the different hosts - it helps flesh out the impact of what is being discussed. Like I think Jenn does a great job of connecting the history to how it impacts TBM's faith experience, Gerardo is good at contextualizing the topic within broader Mormon theology, etc. Basically - the more the merrier on co-hosts in my estimate!
@@tawnyachristensen7310 Haha I'm honestly so obsessed - making me dig out all my Second Great Awakening materials from when I taught Christian history :D
I think this series is important and could become a staple for the truth seeker wanting to understand church history in detail, in context, and be able to appreciate the forest rather than focusing on the trees.
I'm Christian but know little about Mormonism. I've recently become fascinated with fundamentalist religions and found my way to your channel. I'm watching this series and it is making the Bible sound legitimate 😂
John thank you for repeating the complicated sentences and saying it slower. I am a very slow thinker and needed to repeat what Mike is saying a number of times before I get it. Kudos to Mike, it's as if I am listening to a thesis defense
I personally think that long format, in-depth discussions are where John excels. I think we can get many "lean&short" decent discussions elsewhere, but for the long stuff I come to John.
This series is amazing. I am learning so many new things I never knew that were definitely not talked about growing up mormon. I appreciate the FACTS and TRUTH! It is so refreshing.
The fact that the plates were taken away after Smith finished the “translation” and that they could be taken away pretty much whenever makes me wonder why the plates needed to be buried and hidden for Smith to “find them”? why couldn’t they just be given to him hand to hand from the beginning?
False plates. If they were taken away to keep safe, why can we still go and read the dead sea scrolls? Those scrolls still exist. Some are so old they have broken up.
My feedback is the longer version is better. Hearing reactions and different perspectives is great. Love having a few co hosts. I love hearing from Gerardo, Jenn and Nemo, and Carah occasionally.
This is my favorite new series. For newly questioning members it’s important to find a source that carefully and precisely covers all the issues in order. Other videos or podcasts that cover problems with Mormon history and truth claims are too sporadic and hard to find in a comprehensive listen. Like getting the puzzle pieces but never the whole puzzle. Please keep doing these episodes so that one day I can send people to your play list and they can listen, one by one, in order to see the big picture. John’s “slow” re-telling is also helpful. Although as others have stated, I really like Gerardo’s insight and comments. Overall, love that the episodes stay factual not emotional and are to the point with linear in logic and history. That’s what people need.
No worries,... but they are discussing a subject with a 2022 Christian Man's mindset and Opinions about some data but not all the data available for the whole picture, ... just a picture. There's 50 years of new data that is not hidden but you must seek it not wait it to be packaged for you. God will know who seeks him. Who Wants to know him. 1st they assume from the start and never speak about Joseph Smith in an honest way. They never listen to what Joseph said he did, just what people said about him 100 years after he died and then those Opinions become facts 200 years after he died. The truth is in 1830's.
I'm just hearing all of these's issues for the first time. I'm a member inactive for almost 5 years now. But when I joined the church in 1989 I did not know any of these things. I questioned a few things before being baptized. But was told Heavenly Father, would work everything out in the end. And so I believed it and was baptized. Although all these years I still had questions. I'm so grateful I stumbled across this site. Now a lot of my questions are beginning to make sense. I'm looking forward to hearing more, and yes I like the long version. Great job guys keep up all the good work.
As one of your never Mormon listeners, I need all of the explanation I can get! As a person interested in the human condition, I like to hear how what you were taught affects you when you discover that there is a whole lot of beliefs backed up by absolutely nothing!
As a member, I find your presentation respectful and therefore, more compelling. Mocking listeners and beliefs they hold so personal would turn a lot of people off. Well done.
Oooh! Oooh! I know what happened to those 116 pages! They were eaten...by the same dog that ate all of my homework when I was in high school. It was an old dog and had a collar that said "born in 1824" on it and a little note contained in a locket that said "this dog belongs to Martin Harris". The dog burped a lot. When it burped, the burps smelled like old books, like the smell of an old-book collection. The last time I saw that dog was just before my last final exam in high school.
I love this series! I think it’s helpful to have other co-hosts sometimes and to hear everyone make sense of things and reiterate the points in their own words since some of this stuff gets kind of technical. A combo of episodes with just John and others with multiple co-hosts would be great too.
I’m so grateful I found this podcast. I feel released of all quilt for leaving the church ( something was always wrong In My mind ) I have many many LDS friends and family. I share w them what I learn. Amazingly some know but do not know how to let go. The Fear of OUTER DARKNESS is burned In Their heads. It takes time. I literally listen every single days. Some episodes over and over again. I WAS RIGHT the whole time.
I honestly love the cohosts. I kinda zone out when one person speaks for too long. I listen to the episodes when I have a lot of time. So I really don't mind if they're longer
Don't worry about cutting things short I like to hear all the info. I haven't heard things that were too long, and if I did I would have the option to turn it off...but if you go short and leave stuff out I have no choice.
As a never MO I appreciate these educational history videos as well as long form interviews. But, I miss Gerardo, he gives such interesting and knowledgeable commentary.
I also want to add… I want to share these with all of my family. I won’t unless they ask why I “fell away”. It’s nice to know I can share this with them because I have a hard time articulating all of it.
The length of the show doesn't matter unless you are listening live. I listen after it airs on 1.5 or 1.75. I like when you stop to clarify points, I like when there are other hosts, I like whatever way you decide to interview. This series is really great.
Love this episode and series. I love the long form and should two witnesses aka "The power of 3". I really appreciate this series because it's aggregating all the information I have learned over the past years
I am LOVING these interviews. I wish they would let him be a speaker at General Conference in October. Let him be the first speaker on Saturday morning and then have Bro. John Dehlin be the last speaker before Pres. Nelson on Sun. afternoon, we would get to listen to the response from the LDS leaders. That would be a great 2 day session of conference.
Such a good episode. My only hope for after I die is that I can come back as a fly on the wall to witness this part of mormon history. It's so fascinating and once you have all that surrounding context, it really gives an insight into how this religion was founded. Brilliant brilliant episode.
I have enjoyed all of your programs during the 2 years I have been aware of them. I like BOTH the detail of facts and commentary PLUS a separate but related simple fact presentation. Having both will be helpful for all. Thanks so much for all you do. - Dean from Minnesota
I have no problem with the longer episodes. Most podcasts I listen to are about an hour long but I have listened to your 2 plus hour episodes (multiple-back to back) and they are so interesting I don’t even realize that much time has past.
Can you guys do a video about the Book of Mormon structure?? Basically a cliffs notes of each chapter? I know you probably have, so I guess I'm asking for more detail. I know the basic story, but an episode like this is harder to follow for someone, like me, that hasn't read more than a couple pages. As a "never mormon", who is fascinated by this stuff, can you save me from having to read "chloroform in print" 😀.
I remember reading rough stone rolling and there's a little blurb in there that mentions that Nephi was translated at the end, not the beginning, and then I (still a believer) started to have some cognitive dissonance and I didn't know why. I think, having been really deep into mormon history for a while, I was starting to put together some of these pieces subconsciously. So listening to this episode was like scratching an old itch. And it was soooo good!!
Longer versions are fine with me. TBH, I've enjoyed each format. Co-hosts? Good. Only John? Good. 2 hours? Good 4 hours? Good (and I'll just break it into increments on my own if I don't have time to take it all in straight through. Bottom line: I think whatever works best for you guys in presenting the information will probably be really good as far as I'm concerned.
This is amazing! I follow Mike on tik tok ! So great to see him here. And so much great information!! I like that this one is just the 2 of you, so the ideas are moving at an ideal pace!
this is incredible stuff! i'm so glad i came across this channel. i've read the first 2 books of nephi and never noticed the lack of detail in them. i often had questions in confusion about some things but didn't know what was really happening.
I think this series is extremely beneficial. I enjoy hearing the facts. I also enjoy hearing the perspectives of the cohosts. I like the longer format personally.
The slideshow is very well put together. I like the amount of energy and research that has gone into the presentations. As you make more, it might help the flow if you add slides where you can pause and discuss. It feels like John tries to discuss, but there's always a slide "coming up next" so the flow is a little difficult to keep up. but maybe if you divided it into sections, Mike can blaze through a couple slides without interruption and then pause and have a discussion slide where John can rephrase it and put it into context and ask questions. John's strength is making sure we listeners can "see" the slides in our minds' eye just like the witnesses to the Book of Mormon. I think there can be a way to use the slideshow to support the discussion rather than try to interject a discussion into a slideshow. Love the work you are doing! I have listened to all of them on 2x speed. :)
I think two cohosts for this is just right because more cohosts tends to cause things to take too many tangents. I love how John summarized the things mike was saying and then mike would respond and clarify. It was extraordinarily helpful in understanding because I was really trying to wrap my brain around the information and keep track of it all. I could probably get on board with one more cohost if you wanted to have 3 people, because I think Gerardo has a lot of information to add, but I think keeping it tight and really following the material you have to present is best. This one was taxing on my brain so it’s hard to say if more time would’ve been better. I will say that I think this amount of time worked for me. Typically I like the longer deep dives. The beauty of this one is that I think it’s a length that I can sent to some of my family members and they would feel like they have time to listen to this one. As always, thanks for everything. You are doing important work!
Mike and John, thank you for this well thought out presentation! I found it very interesting. I am going back and scanning the Book of Mormon to notice the things you talked about. I’m only up to first Nephi chapter 9, and there are already two whole chapters of Joseph Smith (AKA Nephi) explaining why the account differs from the other one! Never noticed it before!
I like the extended versions, but John you don’t need cohosts to interview guests. You are an epic host and in my opinion too many hosts distracts from the content.
Excellent. For the format, I think thev way you did it today is perfect. It's like John Larsen and Mormon Expression... His best episodes were those near the end of his podcast when it was just him dishing out information. He covered lots of ground and was entertaining too. Keep this format..
I appreciate the detail, makes it better for me to understand. I’m very far removed from being “in”, so my knowledge is rusty. If it’s too long I just break it up & listen the next day. But I can totally see why a shorter version would be better for some listeners. I enjoy cohosts, they provide perspectives different from mine.
I love all your videos. 2-3 hours is perfect but sometimes these topics take more time to develop conversations. Feel the spirit and go with it lol Keep rockin'
Hello, I found your channel 2days ago, and like the channel a lot. I saw 2 episodes from this serie and going to see the next one in a few minutes, I think I like the longer version. For my it's just the information, I knew about the Mormons but that''s it.
Mike, this content is absolutely fantastic! For people like myself, I think emotional reactions are great in other types of interviews (the long form stories of people's lives), but I don't know that we need emotional reactions to this series. I'm not sure how people are finding this content dry. If you were to have a co-host I think it would be preferred to have a subject matter expert.
Want all details and facts please, if he has all the info, so grateful for you comprising it, preserve and share all. Love long versions. Love Gerardo, nemo. Such great info! Thanks much! Priceless
1:36:00 here I was taught in seminary that the overlapping complexity of small/large plate abridgement showed there was no way Joseph was the author. The fact that from Mosiah-Moroni makes no mention of the small plates makes so much more sense when you look at it from a critical angle.
Have you guys thought about the fact that Martin Harris stopped acting as scribe after the 116 pages were lost, and that he was replaced by Oliver Cowdrey? I know there are rumors that Emma Smith might have been scribe for part of the beginning of Mosiah. We apparently don't have the original text, so it's hard to know for sure; I'm going off of the speculation I've found online. This is important because Joseph didn't actually have to replicate the stories in the lost 116 pages exactly. His new scribes were unfamiliar with the original writings of the book, with the possible exception of Emma (and we don't have any evidence of her actually acting as Book of Mormon scribe). It's possible that Joseph's text in the original 116 pages bore absolutely no resemblance to what would later become the "small plates." In fact, the idea that Joseph was actually trying to write some sort of fantasy text is quite plausible - perhaps it didn't become religious until he attended the sermon that served as the inspiration for King Benjamin. Anyway, I'm not sure if anybody's written about this before or not. I don't think Joseph was trying to con the world at first. He just needed to con the person he was working with - to make sure he was able to keep himself and his wife alive for long enough to think of the next scheme. When you look at it closely, it seems that a lot of the Book of Mormon and the revelations are simply answers to problems that Joseph immediately faced, and not an attempt to create a completely new religion.
Oliver Cowdry was a member of Rev. Ethan Smith's church, who wrote (View of the Hebrews), which claims Native Americans were the Lost 10 Tribes, who built the (mounds & walls) along the Appalachians, then were cursed with dark skin. Hyrum Smith knew Ethan Smith's son from his time at Dartmouth College, which was when Ethan Smith was writing View of the Hebrews.
@@Pay-It_Forward Lol - isn't it amazing how the religion that was revealed JUST SO HAPPENS to be a mix of all these beliefs that the original members had? God indeed works in mysterious ways, lol.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I've been an LDS leader my whole life. Deacons quorum president, teachers quorum president, 1st priest to the Bishop, Eagle Scout, Trainer, District Leader, Zone Leader, Assistant to the President on my mission, Young Men's President, and Elders Quorum Secretary now in my ward. I have never understood the complete picture you, Mike, and others are painting on this series. Mike, I'm very grateful for your deep knowledge. John, I'm grateful for your platform and ability to direct quality discussion. I appreciate the truths, facts, and greater light and knowledge this series has brought.
Brainwashing is difficult to wash out.
Hello Jarrett, I’m asking this in all sincerity. Who are you outside the church?
One might well ask the Grand Dragon, who are you outside the Klan. Being important in a system that lies to and abuses it's members is ultimately not important as all.
Wow Jarrett your a very busy guy. The church gets so much of your time. You are working hard for that Salvation ❤️ how many are depending on you to get that job done? A lot of pressure.
@@the-salamander4truth that’s the whole problem.
As a never mormon, I find the multiple cohosts extremely valuable. It helps give more context as to how these things were taught to and perceived by members. I also just enjoy everyones opinions and commentary, no matter how long it takes! ❤️
Ditto
Ditto x3!
Do yourself a favor and stop thinking of yourself as an "as a"... Everyone is an "as a"...
As a blah blah, I'm blah blah blah because of blah blah.
Lame.
I don't understand how never being Mormon would make "multiple cohorts" more valuable, but I do agree with you that the numerous and diverse accusatory fingers are all pointing to the same giant lie.
Great point that Joseph could look at his seer stone and see that the plates were safe in a log, but couldn't use it to find the 116 pages.
Joseph hadn’t learned Control-S in the 1820’s. 😄
I can see Joshua Thompson’s point. If Good took away the gold plates and the spectacles after 116 pages had lost, God could also take away Joseph Smiths’ power to see things using his seer stone then. Mike, what do you think?
@@rjohnson6959 Or the simple explanation is that he couldn't remember what he had invented before.
Come on!
@@joshuathompson1357 Yes it an argument. He couldn't remember what he previously invented so moved on hoping people who buy his BS. You don't seriously believe the plates actually existed do you with reformed egyptian on them do you? I have a bridge you might like to buy.
@@joshuathompson1357 That's not rudeness. Direct talking not your thing then.
My original comment was 100% relevant.
You were the one who butted in and tried to make out it wasn't.
Joseph Smith was a conman.
The fact that he wouldn't retranslate the 116 pages because he was afraid of being caught out is pertinent to all discussions about Mormon BS.
You can not seriously believe in this day and age that his story about plates is true?
You'll be telling me next the Book of Abraham is genuine.
When I went through seminary as a teen, I remember thinking these same things, but the second I voiced my questions and concerns about these issues, I was immediately shut down and told that it was Satan causing me to question Joseph Smith and that one day God would share his reasoning for letting this happen.
How dare you introduce questions that could interrupt the 10% tithing flow!
BTW that's called "thought stopping". very common in cults, they teach members to interrupt their critical thinking
Personally I love the longer content !!! the more the better!!!! I left the church almost 6 years ago and still devour these episodes. I think a lot of people who have left the church and people who have never been a part of the church would be interested in more details. It's just so fascinating!
I resonate with devouring these episodes. ❤
Better a year late than never! At 67 years old-I wonder where my mind has been. Thank you!
If a subject takes 2 hours, take 2 hours. Plenty of room for both short and longer stories. ❤
Yeah this episode kind of felt rushed. We've got time to listen, slow down and breathe!!! 🥰😂
@@chubbypolarbear23Yes, actually prefer longer versions and often listen to them again to absorb more data.
I love the longer versions where cohosts give their responses. It’s super interesting & kind of healing to know that we aren’t alone
What makes this series special to me is your willingness to take time with people (and with the content), going in depth. We're surrounded by sound bites, stripped of context and nuance. My vote - go for it!
This series has been eye opening and I almost want to say that it's been life changing. I've been addicted and I would love to see more. These have been my favorite episodes of Mormon Stories. Thank you!
The way you presented this episode was perfect!
John I love the way you repeat things for clarification; it helps me digest the information better.
Please keep these shows coming thick and fast.
Your number one fan from the Land Down Under.
I like having the additional commentary and co-hosts.
The constant repeating, clarification and reiterating I ultimately find incredibly frustrating and harder to follow. I have no background with the church or church history. I find that I need to pause the pop cast to go to LDS discussions website to read the text of what is trying to be presented. Let mike get through his presentation and then have a discussion.
I personally really like the cross talk with the different hosts - it helps flesh out the impact of what is being discussed. Like I think Jenn does a great job of connecting the history to how it impacts TBM's faith experience, Gerardo is good at contextualizing the topic within broader Mormon theology, etc. Basically - the more the merrier on co-hosts in my estimate!
Yay! Mara is in the house! You give great analysis on this front as well!
@@tawnyachristensen7310 Haha I'm honestly so obsessed - making me dig out all my Second Great Awakening materials from when I taught Christian history :D
💯
I like the longer versions of the podcast myself. Thanks!
These episodes with Mike are total bangers! Keep 'em coming!
I think this series is important and could become a staple for the truth seeker wanting to understand church history in detail, in context, and be able to appreciate the forest rather than focusing on the trees.
I'm Christian but know little about Mormonism. I've recently become fascinated with fundamentalist religions and found my way to your channel. I'm watching this series and it is making the Bible sound legitimate 😂
What kind of Christian are you that doesn't think the Bible is legitimate?
John thank you for repeating the complicated sentences and saying it slower. I am a very slow thinker and needed to repeat what Mike is saying a number of times before I get it. Kudos to Mike, it's as if I am listening to a thesis defense
I personally think that long format, in-depth discussions are where John excels. I think we can get many "lean&short" decent discussions elsewhere, but for the long stuff I come to John.
This series is amazing. I am learning so many new things I never knew that were definitely not talked about growing up mormon. I appreciate the FACTS and TRUTH! It is so refreshing.
Thanks!
Keep it tight with you and Mike.
Mike powers through with his info and You slow it down to retell& explain deeper. It’s a perfect mix.
The fact that the plates were taken away after Smith finished the “translation” and that they could be taken away pretty much whenever makes me wonder why the plates needed to be buried and hidden for Smith to “find them”? why couldn’t they just be given to him hand to hand from the beginning?
Because people were superstitious back then and the connection to treasure digging techniques probably gave the story more gravitas.
False plates. If they were taken away to keep safe, why can we still go and read the dead sea scrolls? Those scrolls still exist. Some are so old they have broken up.
My feedback is the longer version is better. Hearing reactions and different perspectives is great. Love having a few co hosts. I love hearing from Gerardo, Jenn and Nemo, and Carah occasionally.
This is my favorite new series. For newly questioning members it’s important to find a source that carefully and precisely covers all the issues in order. Other videos or podcasts that cover problems with Mormon history and truth claims are too sporadic and hard to find in a comprehensive listen. Like getting the puzzle pieces but never the whole puzzle. Please keep doing these episodes so that one day I can send people to your play list and they can listen, one by one, in order to see the big picture.
John’s “slow” re-telling is also helpful. Although as others have stated, I really like Gerardo’s insight and comments. Overall, love that the episodes stay factual not emotional and are to the point with linear in logic and history. That’s what people need.
No worries,... but they are discussing a subject with a 2022 Christian Man's mindset and Opinions about some data but not all the data available for the whole picture, ... just a picture. There's 50 years of new data that is not hidden but you must seek it not wait it to be packaged for you. God will know who seeks him. Who Wants to know him. 1st they assume from the start and never speak about Joseph Smith in an honest way. They never listen to what Joseph said he did, just what people said about him 100 years after he died and then those Opinions become facts 200 years after he died. The truth is in 1830's.
The history can be dry and a bit hard to follow- Having the cohosts and discussion makes it fun and interesting. I like the insights and discussion.
I love the longer formats combined with commentary. Excellent work, gentlemen!
I'm just hearing all of these's issues for the first time. I'm a member inactive for almost 5 years now. But when I joined the church in 1989 I did not know any of these things. I questioned a few things before being baptized. But was told Heavenly Father, would work everything out in the end. And so I believed it and was baptized. Although all these years I still had questions. I'm so grateful I stumbled across this site. Now a lot of my questions are beginning to make sense. I'm looking forward to hearing more, and yes I like the long version. Great job guys keep up all the good work.
As one of your never Mormon listeners, I need all of the explanation I can get! As a person interested in the human condition, I like to hear how what you were taught affects you when you discover that there is a whole lot of beliefs backed up by absolutely nothing!
As an exmo. Born n raised in it. I always harbored secret doubts..
But after I left, and did my own research, the anger is in measurable!
As a member, I find your presentation respectful and therefore, more compelling. Mocking listeners and beliefs they hold so personal would turn a lot of people off. Well done.
This is exactly the episode I needed. Thank you.
Oooh! Oooh! I know what happened to those 116 pages! They were eaten...by the same dog that ate all of my homework when I was in high school. It was an old dog and had a collar that said "born in 1824" on it and a little note contained in a locket that said "this dog belongs to Martin Harris". The dog burped a lot. When it burped, the burps smelled like old books, like the smell of an old-book collection. The last time I saw that dog was just before my last final exam in high school.
😉😜👍
😜😉👍
Transcript please. Yes. Of these four parts. Very valuable. Impressive eloquence. Honest and pure clarity.
Thank you
I loved how much fun these guys had with this. This is a masterful analysis and it enhances the ninconpoopery of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon
I love hearing what the guest hosts have to say. I think having more perspectives makes it more well rounded conversation.
I enjoy longer podcasts. This channel is great!
LONG version! I binge listen to your podcast at work and I love how they provide me with hours of entertainment.
This is GOLD from LDS discussion
I love this series! I think it’s helpful to have other co-hosts sometimes and to hear everyone make sense of things and reiterate the points in their own words since some of this stuff gets kind of technical. A combo of episodes with just John and others with multiple co-hosts would be great too.
I’m so grateful I found this podcast. I feel released of all quilt for leaving the church ( something was always wrong In My mind )
I have many many LDS friends and family. I share w them what I learn. Amazingly some know but do not know how to let go. The Fear of OUTER DARKNESS is burned In Their heads. It takes time.
I literally listen every single days. Some episodes over and over again. I WAS RIGHT the whole time.
Thank you so much, John. I was struggling, too!
I honestly love the cohosts. I kinda zone out when one person speaks for too long. I listen to the episodes when I have a lot of time. So I really don't mind if they're longer
I too enjoy the longer commentary, analysis and personal reactions
I like the long ones. I love these that focus on true information!!
Don't worry about cutting things short
I like to hear all the info. I haven't heard things that were too long, and if I did I would have the option to turn it off...but if you go short and leave stuff out I have no choice.
I love this series so much! It got me interested enough to pick up No Man Knows My History from the library, and I’m loving it!
As a never MO I appreciate these educational history videos as well as long form interviews. But, I miss Gerardo, he gives such interesting and knowledgeable commentary.
I also want to add… I want to share these with all of my family. I won’t unless they ask why I “fell away”. It’s nice to know I can share this with them because I have a hard time articulating all of it.
listening to these guys will lead you to fall away
The length of the show doesn't matter unless you are listening live. I listen after it airs on 1.5 or 1.75. I like when you stop to clarify points, I like when there are other hosts, I like whatever way you decide to interview. This series is really great.
Love this episode and series. I love the long form and should two witnesses aka "The power of 3". I really appreciate this series because it's aggregating all the information I have learned over the past years
I can’t imagine the amount of stress JS must’ve been under to try to remember all his lies and keep all those plates in the air
Amber Heard would be so proud of him
Those plates were buried!
The only plates Joe had, were dinner plates.
Good thing God knew he'd lose the first 116 pages several thousand years in advance.
Longer stories. I love the commentary and analysis.
I am LOVING these interviews. I wish they would let him be a speaker at General Conference in October. Let him be the first speaker on Saturday morning and then have Bro. John Dehlin be the last speaker before Pres. Nelson on Sun. afternoon, we would get to listen to the response from the LDS leaders. That would be a great 2 day session of conference.
Such a good episode. My only hope for after I die is that I can come back as a fly on the wall to witness this part of mormon history. It's so fascinating and once you have all that surrounding context, it really gives an insight into how this religion was founded. Brilliant brilliant episode.
I have enjoyed all of your programs during the 2 years I have been aware of them. I like BOTH the detail of facts and commentary PLUS a separate but related simple fact presentation. Having both will be helpful for all. Thanks so much for all you do. - Dean from Minnesota
Thank you for all the work you’ve done to bring all of this information together and present it piece by piece. Loving this series!
I like having the additional commentary and co-hosts.
I have no problem with the longer episodes. Most podcasts I listen to are about an hour long but I have listened to your 2 plus hour episodes (multiple-back to back) and they are so interesting I don’t even realize that much time has past.
Can you guys do a video about the Book of Mormon structure?? Basically a cliffs notes of each chapter? I know you probably have, so I guess I'm asking for more detail. I know the basic story, but an episode like this is harder to follow for someone, like me, that hasn't read more than a couple pages. As a "never mormon", who is fascinated by this stuff, can you save me from having to read "chloroform in print" 😀.
This is brilliant! Wow, what he has control over versus what he doesn't. Makes sense!
These are my favorite episodes
I really like that I can hear the experiences of others. It’s been the best part for me and my faith journey.
Thanks for this content! I'm just now going through the whole playlist/series. So helpful!
I remember reading rough stone rolling and there's a little blurb in there that mentions that Nephi was translated at the end, not the beginning, and then I (still a believer) started to have some cognitive dissonance and I didn't know why. I think, having been really deep into mormon history for a while, I was starting to put together some of these pieces subconsciously. So listening to this episode was like scratching an old itch. And it was soooo good!!
Yay!!!
Personally, I like just your straightforward interviews.
Longer versions are fine with me. TBH, I've enjoyed each format. Co-hosts? Good. Only John? Good. 2 hours? Good 4 hours? Good (and I'll just break it into increments on my own if I don't have time to take it all in straight through.
Bottom line: I think whatever works best for you guys in presenting the information will probably be really good as far as I'm concerned.
Some very eye-opening connections! Thank you!
This is amazing! I follow Mike on tik tok ! So great to see him here. And so much great information!! I like that this one is just the 2 of you, so the ideas are moving at an ideal pace!
Putting the categories of the episode so I know where to skip to for certain topics is great. Keep that up plz
this is incredible stuff! i'm so glad i came across this channel. i've read the first 2 books of nephi and never noticed the lack of detail in them. i often had questions in confusion about some things but didn't know what was really happening.
I love the historical, technical and scientific approach of this series.
I'm a big fan of the longer format.
I think this series is extremely beneficial. I enjoy hearing the facts. I also enjoy hearing the perspectives of the cohosts. I like the longer format personally.
The slideshow is very well put together. I like the amount of energy and research that has gone into the presentations. As you make more, it might help the flow if you add slides where you can pause and discuss. It feels like John tries to discuss, but there's always a slide "coming up next" so the flow is a little difficult to keep up. but maybe if you divided it into sections, Mike can blaze through a couple slides without interruption and then pause and have a discussion slide where John can rephrase it and put it into context and ask questions. John's strength is making sure we listeners can "see" the slides in our minds' eye just like the witnesses to the Book of Mormon. I think there can be a way to use the slideshow to support the discussion rather than try to interject a discussion into a slideshow. Love the work you are doing! I have listened to all of them on 2x speed. :)
Thanks!!
I think two cohosts for this is just right because more cohosts tends to cause things to take too many tangents. I love how John summarized the things mike was saying and then mike would respond and clarify. It was extraordinarily helpful in understanding because I was really trying to wrap my brain around the information and keep track of it all.
I could probably get on board with one more cohost if you wanted to have 3 people, because I think Gerardo has a lot of information to add, but I think keeping it tight and really following the material you have to present is best.
This one was taxing on my brain so it’s hard to say if more time would’ve been better. I will say that I think this amount of time worked for me.
Typically I like the longer deep dives. The beauty of this one is that I think it’s a length that I can sent to some of my family members and they would feel like they have time to listen to this one.
As always, thanks for everything. You are doing important work!
I love this series and am looking forward to the next one. I prefer the episodes with just John and LDS discussions!
Release both versions. I'd enjoy both. I like getting into the weeds of the content
I’d like both versions! Sometimes I don’t have time for the long format, but when I do, I really want the extras.
I thought this was presented perfectly! I loved the lack of constant interruptions, though I love Gerardo and when he's on!
I love your videos! I prefer when you have an additional co-host, more perspectives are nice. Thank you for what you do!
Love the tighter, shorter version in this episode!! What a mind blowing discussion!
Love the long versions.
Mike and John, thank you for this well thought out presentation! I found it very interesting. I am going back and scanning the Book of Mormon to notice the things you talked about. I’m only up to first Nephi chapter 9, and there are already two whole chapters of Joseph Smith (AKA Nephi) explaining why the account differs from the other one! Never noticed it before!
Yay!!!
I like the extended versions, but John you don’t need cohosts to interview guests. You are an epic host and in my opinion too many hosts distracts from the content.
love the discussion, love the analysis, y'all point out stuff I wouldn't have been able to verbalize
Excellent. For the format, I think thev way you did it today is perfect. It's like John Larsen and Mormon Expression... His best episodes were those near the end of his podcast when it was just him dishing out information. He covered lots of ground and was entertaining too. Keep this format..
I appreciate the detail, makes it better for me to understand. I’m very far removed from being “in”, so my knowledge is rusty. If it’s too long I just break it up & listen the next day. But I can totally see why a shorter version would be better for some listeners.
I enjoy cohosts, they provide perspectives different from mine.
I love all your videos. 2-3 hours is perfect but sometimes these topics take more time to develop conversations. Feel the spirit and go with it lol Keep rockin'
Hello, I found your channel 2days ago, and like the channel a lot. I saw 2 episodes from this serie and going to see the next one in a few minutes, I think I like the longer version. For my it's just the information, I knew about the Mormons but that''s it.
Great work Mike and John. Longer is better.
I wonder if Lucy "lost" the manuscript, hoping that it would mean that she and Martin wouldn't have to pay for the publication of the Book of Mormon.
I like the shorter leaner focused versions but honestly, I've been watching them all.
55:30 I love the work Brent Metcalfe did on the Wherefore/Therefore issue.
Mike, this content is absolutely fantastic! For people like myself, I think emotional reactions are great in other types of interviews (the long form stories of people's lives), but I don't know that we need emotional reactions to this series. I'm not sure how people are finding this content dry. If you were to have a co-host I think it would be preferred to have a subject matter expert.
The restoration of the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the most Glorious thing I know.
I appreciate the longer versions, generally. I like the contextualization and emotions.
I know this was a year ago but I appreciate more discussion so that I have more time to process before powering on to the next point.
Love Jen too!
Want all details and facts please, if he has all the info, so grateful for you comprising it, preserve and share all. Love long versions. Love Gerardo, nemo. Such great info! Thanks much! Priceless
I like the longer version with the insights from cohosta
1:36:00 here I was taught in seminary that the overlapping complexity of small/large plate abridgement showed there was no way Joseph was the author.
The fact that from Mosiah-Moroni makes no mention of the small plates makes so much more sense when you look at it from a critical angle.
@@TwoTreesVisuals haha, I know right? Did you ever get a laminated card with the diagram for it in seminary?
Have you guys thought about the fact that Martin Harris stopped acting as scribe after the 116 pages were lost, and that he was replaced by Oliver Cowdrey? I know there are rumors that Emma Smith might have been scribe for part of the beginning of Mosiah. We apparently don't have the original text, so it's hard to know for sure; I'm going off of the speculation I've found online.
This is important because Joseph didn't actually have to replicate the stories in the lost 116 pages exactly. His new scribes were unfamiliar with the original writings of the book, with the possible exception of Emma (and we don't have any evidence of her actually acting as Book of Mormon scribe). It's possible that Joseph's text in the original 116 pages bore absolutely no resemblance to what would later become the "small plates." In fact, the idea that Joseph was actually trying to write some sort of fantasy text is quite plausible - perhaps it didn't become religious until he attended the sermon that served as the inspiration for King Benjamin.
Anyway, I'm not sure if anybody's written about this before or not. I don't think Joseph was trying to con the world at first. He just needed to con the person he was working with - to make sure he was able to keep himself and his wife alive for long enough to think of the next scheme. When you look at it closely, it seems that a lot of the Book of Mormon and the revelations are simply answers to problems that Joseph immediately faced, and not an attempt to create a completely new religion.
Oliver Cowdry was a member of Rev. Ethan Smith's church, who wrote (View of the Hebrews), which claims Native Americans were the Lost 10 Tribes, who built the (mounds & walls) along the Appalachians, then were cursed with dark skin. Hyrum Smith knew Ethan Smith's son from his time at Dartmouth College, which was when Ethan Smith was writing View of the Hebrews.
@@Pay-It_Forward Lol - isn't it amazing how the religion that was revealed JUST SO HAPPENS to be a mix of all these beliefs that the original members had?
God indeed works in mysterious ways, lol.