Yeah. My expierence with a sparrow it: it miss a straight flying object just because the object is lower, still high above ground. Or do 90 degree turn and hit a hard manouvering F16 at it's optimal speed droping flares, chaff and shit but still manages to do a crazy spin, almost 360 and hit a target
@@adrianstachowski9422fr. its like me in fps games. i either hit the craziest shots and wipe the floor with the enemy team, or do fuck all, miss the easiest shots, and get the lowest kd ratio known to man lmao
@@mixmaster3043 Ah yes. Cause any of the following planes should be capable of fighting an F-15 in addition to the ones that already do... -J35XS -F-104G/S -F-5E/A -F-4E/EJ/Kurnass -Su-22 -Sea Harrier FRS.1 -J35XS -JA37C -AJS37 -Mig-23M -Mig-21bis -Su-25BM -J-7E -J-8B Fuck is bro smoking? 💀💀💀
I've noticed that ever since this major update, missiles, in general, have become more screwy. My ERs/AIM 7s screw up A LOT more often. They either won't fuse, or they'll just fly off into Narnia or just stop tracking despite maintaining lock. I genuinely think they screwed up something with the servers/cheaped out on them/servers have been under more strain. Especially after today where my sparrows worked 60% of the time on perfect launches and my 9Ls were doing the exact same thing with not fusing despite almost grazing the people they were fired at. I even had a sparrow go after a teammate 3km away from the guy I was locked onto (with a 4km distance launch). It didn't even try to go after the guy I locked on to
Yeah, that seems about right. You almost feel happy when the sparrow does its job these days. I've had shots where the missile went left when the locked enemy was to my right, a couple of them, in fact.
I've had SARH missiles from all nations have adhd and just go off and do what it wanted. Its something they did with the seeker heads. For an example me and a buddy were in a custom server and both doing a head on and my missile cork screws and his follows after it. I had the ER he had the 7M. Its kinda funny.
@cobracommander4609 Oh yeah I agree that it's all radar missiles. I've used both (have Russia, Japan, and Sweden for reference) and both of them tend to just randomly not fuse on people or they just give up on tracking. I've noticed that the ERs seem to track better, but they don't actually fuse more often, and then for the sparrows it's the other way around. I've used 530Fs as well, but not enough to form a opinion on them. Tbh I just carry full IR load outs for the most part nowadays thanks to it
@@swarbrickehead ons as in standard launch ranges of 10-15 miles at 8-10,000 feet. Is what we were doing. So correct ranges and alts for the tests. Not mad at the results just think it’s funny
I aspire to the level of genius it takes to come up with "double lobotomized donkeys with the iq of the plastic cd case for the bluray copy of top gun maverick"
After about 30 seconds on google, I found out that F-16 pilots train anywhere from 6-9 months before they can fly the F-16, and some sources say it takes upwards of 2 YEARS before they're even allowed to fly in combat. I can assume that it's about the same for the F-15, so that 100-0 KD really isn't just because the plane is good.
@@ADGMagic and c) mig21/23 are built to be a part of a complex air defense system with ground search radars and gci (manual and automatic) guidance, which was absent at the third world countries f15 fought in
An issue ive been having with sparrows since even before the last major update are 2 things: It not fusing, and having it stop tracking 1 second before impact on a flawless lock backdroped by open sky. I dont have any other radar missiles myself, but i always fly with friend in the french techtree who doesn't have this issue. In fact whenever he's spectating me fire sparrows, his dialog always goes something like this: "You see that flanker? Yeah fire-yeah... oh hes cooked, its over for him hes fucking cooke- WHAAAAAAT?????" We've coined these common occurrences as "sparrow moments"
If it helps explain how in any way, maybe me being on xbox somehow has something to do with it? Maybe something with my settings? Because I know having HDR on fucks with the server replay. I really just don't know.
From my experience if your target drops chaff when your fox1 is really close to it, the missile will magically start tracking chaff even in a perfect head on shot. Luckily most of the players don't abuse this stupid gaijin 'get out of jail' card
I would love to see your tutorials on jets, especially for people who recently got into flying jets (me included). The tutorials from others' yt channel 2 years ago do helped but the state of the air RB jet has changed drastically. It would really help people who just got introduce to jets. Good luck with F-104s, I'm looking forward to seeing their meme guide!
the only 'proper' bvr experience I have is shitting 2 AMRAAM in a DCS F-16C at 33k fts, dive to the deck, then crash because I run out of fuel. So I have nothing to say about top tier
I feel like the f-15 not being the reason its kd is so high is kinda wrong. The f-15 in real life came 10 years before the mig-29 and su-27, the engineerings and pilots were the reason the f-15 were dominant
@DonutWithMustache and it got flares dispensers they just never used them because the flares had trouble igniting at its operational altitude, not to mention flares didn't really cover the engines heat signature, it's not like video games where flares just make the missile lose lock especially the early missile.
This guy’s argument is right and wrong at the same time. While part of it obviously was US training, tactics, etc. the plane itself still played a huge role. The reason the F-15 was facing “outdated” jets wasn’t because it was facing third world countries (many of these countries were directly funded with top of the shelf USSR equipment) but because comparatively it was simply that much more advanced for its time. Even throughout the early 1980s the main fighting force of the USSR was still the Mig-21. This doesn’t translate to War Thunder because BR isn’t sorted by historical timeframe. So yeah, it’s easy to say “It only fought Mig-21s” but when you take into account those weren’t just “outdated” jets but the literal backbone of USSR & Warsaw Pact air superiority it’s not hard to recognize that the F-15 simply was a great plane.
@@mr.ballstone1914 The F-15 was a great plane and i respect it, but please do a 10 second google search before saying incorrect things. "by the 1980s the Soviet air force was mostly MIG-21s" is just wrong. MiG-21s were gradually phased out in the 70s, except for MiG-21Bis. The primary bulk of the Soviet air force going into the 80s was MiG-23s. By the early 80s, you had aircraft such as the MiG-29 (1983) and Su-27 (1984) entering service as well, forming the back bone by the end of the decade. By the time the USSR collapsed, MiG-23 and 21 were only in reserve service/storage, with MiG-29 and Su-27 forming the bulk of the fighting force. Had the F-15 faced the Soviet Airforce any time after 1985, it would have faced Su-27s and MiG-29s almsot always. The F-15 never faced the Soviet air force directly, and we can never know for sure how it wouldve done. there is no way around this truth. What it did face was Syrian MiG-21, 23 and Su-22, Iraqi MiG-21, 23, 25, and Mirage F1, and Yugoslav MiG-21 and 29. Half of those Iraqi kills were against un-armed aircraft trying to escape to Iran for safety after the third day of the war. Until the F-15 faces against a Su-27, the aircraft designed to equal it in performance, we can not make a true deduction of the F-15's performance. Have you looked at the F-15's official kill dossier provided by the USAF? The F-15 is a great aircraft and i respect it for what it is, but if it was half as "unstoppable" as people on the internet claim it is, the US wouldn't have to list a IL-76 and some unarmed transport helicopters as "air to air combat kills" for the F-15, as if the IL-76 cargo transport was somehow supposed to fight back in a fair fight.
As a Japanese main i noticed that the aim7 got screwed with, but im pretty sure it was all missiles, like bs 45° turn to hit a teammate i didn't have lock on, when the enemy was straight ahead. Also the most annoying problem for me is the radar getting stuck in lock mode for like 30 seconds where you cant stop it and have to turn your radar on and off to fix it, it's gotten me killed a lot
Actually there REALLY IS the Server-Sided Issues, and It really happens in every SARHs. But R-27ER is capable to re-acquire targets since it has DL capability, therefore any other SARHs sometimes go wrong completely. I still don't know is it missile logic or PID, but the fact is SARHs really goes wrong, and especially sparrows can go wrong too. Only R-27ER performs reliably.
AIM-7s are really weird with me, sometimes they'll veer off randomly for no reason (though this is kinda rare) and other times they'll refuse to stop tracking an enemy even if i haven't had them locked for 10+ seconds, them flying into clouds, near the deck, chaffing etc. It's like the missile is fueled on pure spite and rage alone
and if you pause for a brief second at 1:44 you can almost hear the cry of a MiG-21bis player watching a jet die right before his missile connects another W upload, can’t wait for the next meme guide!
Nah, i had multiple moments in F-4J where my AIM-7E-2 just nose-dived to the ground when the enemy started to climb or AIM-7F fly so close they left a scar on enemy pilot's face but did not detonate and just flew to the sky.
Just wanna drop that in here: I think if you ever get bored of gajin or stupid people, you can always try playing DCS. You can trial any module for free and I think someone who is this good at BVR combat will have a lot of fun in DCS. I recommend the Flaming Cliffs 3 module. They are very simple to learn and are very very capable. They also recently recieved a nice improvement to graphics.
Hundreds of flight hours logged on MiG-21bis module. As fun as the F-15E is, i prefer cold war stuff so im just waiting on the F-4E and MiG-23ML modules rn
@@DonutWithMustachetry an f14 module. Nowadays it's the best dcs plane (although an f4 should challenge it). F14 can be effectively deployed in almost all dcs servers, from ecw to modern fox3 spamming ones. At the same time, it feels extremely cold war-ish. Clunky controls, old systems which require a lot of work to make them shine, enormous quantities of old-school gauges and switches. It feels like a mig21 on steroids, everything gives the same vibes but there are much more systems to play with and it can challenge modern fighters as well as participate in old-school fox1 missions
The free A-4E Skyhawk module for DCS is good, and goes to show how shit and unrealistically underpowered the Skyhawka are in Worse Torture (aka War Thunder).
Couple days ago I've returned to the F-4EJ Kai after grinding the entire Japan air tree with the ADTW, and it's been a blast. Even when I only had the 7-Es unlocked, the sparrows still made 80% of my kills amd it was very easy to get 2-3 kills. And after playing France for so long, having a plane with 4 decent radar missiles on top of your ir ones is a dream
@@RienRocks That's because the Sparrow is so low speed you can dodge it in perfect headon. There's a timing to it, watch Seek's recent radar missile guide. My advise is you wanna be slightly off-bore to keep the Sparrow turning so it can pre-empt and throw off their timing.
finally someone say something about the 'muhuhuhuhu 102-0 kd ratio' yeah no shit buddy i wonder what the mig29 kd would be if it were to fought brazilian f86
Also soviet fighters were built to be dependent on gci guidance and control, which was at the very best incompetent and lacking in coverage at the third world countries where migs were exported. Soviet pilot instructors in their notes wrote that ever rwrs on the planes were usually broken and sometimes even radios didn't work
The thing that I don’t understand is for people to say broken ass missile in top tier chat but not thinking to themselves maybe I should learn how to defeat it instead. Baffling
the only way to reliably beat an r27er is to just fly below 150m lol which is something most people already do, its not something like "just notch duh!! skell izzue" because the 27er doesnt go stupid and useless immediately after losing lock like every other radar missile and besides this you need a perfect 90 degree angle and spending half of your chaff until the missile passes to defeat if. meanwhile sparrows just require turning 70 degrees and popping chaff 2 times and the missile immediately turns itself off and is unable to be used.
Guy above me is right. You should watch Seek’s video on evading radar missiles. He tried dodging ERs with chaff/notching at BVR and it did absolutely nothing to stop it most of the time.
Exactly, Russian dopplers are so easy to notch when at longer ranges. You have to ignore your RWR to die to a random R-27. And when you go into a furball just stay low.. I almost exclusively get killed by IR missiles.
@@DigitalShaolinvery untrue, i have the Barak 2, F-14B, F-15A and the Flanker and have over a 2.0 KD on all of them. The only time i have gotten killed by some bullshit was when sparrows were fired at me. Sometimes they are the easiest shit to dodge and sometimes they just refuse to get off your ass. Russian radars arent that good if you notch. Ive beaten countless flankers at BVR combat by just cranking in the F-14B. Or going full perpendicular and then recommitting.
@@niksonrex88 dude your tweaking lol, watch seeks video. this is coming from one of the top war thunder players talking about how it is notching the r27er, if you are losing your bvr fight in the su27 you are simply just bad because there is no circumstance you should lose. also, even if you successfully notched the planes radar, you have to keep notching and continuously chaffing until the missile misses you because unlike any other missile ingame never goes dumb after losing lock, the missile always has the capability to lock on after launching no matter how long it has lost lock for
All I know is my Aim-7M's keep doing a 90 degree turn into the ground even when I have a solid lock. Edit: I have no idea what notching even means, I just hear people say to do it. I guess it s flying at a 90 degree angle while dropping chaff?
1. You are correct about notching 2. There are several reasons for this aim7 behavior: 2a. All fox1 missiles have their own radar seeker, so if your radar tracks a notching target, it doesn't mean that missile can see it too, usually top tier radars are harder to notch than respective radar missiles 2b. The missile doesn't know which target do you want it to hit. Your radar illuminates some area around the locked target and your sparrow goes to the strongest radar return from that area (meaning one with the highest closure speed). Usually that's your target, but sometimes it's another plane in that illuminated area 2c. Ground multipathing matters not only when your target is at extremely low alt. For example, there's your target 5 NM in front of you at somewhat high altitude, and a mountain peak at 2 NM just below the direct line from your radar to the target. The sparrow you'll launch will get confused by a strong radar return coming from that peak and head straight to the peak. To avoid it, point a sparrow high above this mountain peak before the launch, so it wouldn't have lo fly close to the ground
a tutorial on how to defeat and/or use top tier missiles; cranking, notching, good radar use, proper countermeasure use etc. would be a very good. I'm getting to top tier myself after a lot of grinding and I'd rather know whats the proper things to do before I get clubbed and cry on a reddit post
I've been having a ton of troubles with the Sparrows lately, mainly just flying off wherever they want even when a lock is maintained. Rather frustrating, but I've come to expect that.
my problem with the aim7f is that I will have a stable lock on someone, launch the missile, and then the missile will randomly turn 90 degrees away from the locked target
that is more of a general issue since sometimes radars can kinda get confused since they don't work like human brains with reason and thought, ive had times where i locked onto an ememy and the missile locked onto his teammate below him, wouldn't be surprised if it would do the same with terrain or smth
As a American main (sadly) I liked a lot of your points and fully agree with you. I feel like most people just get upset at how much faster and more maneuverable the er is as a su27 will always win the bvr engagement if the missile isn't notched correctly which I will admit is more challenging with the er than other missiles. As a coping mechanism to try and counter the fact that these players don't want to admit they are using the plane incorrectly they just find something else to pin the blame on. Great video and keep up the good content!
No the problem with R27ER is that none of its real life problems (reliability issues due to shitty soviet electronics, low fidelity tracking means it is vulnerable to chaff and ECM, poor low altitude performance, etc) are modeled, instead gaijin just said “same general type of seeker, same performance”, which is rather bullshit. To put it Ilin perspective, the minimum engagement altitude for the 27ER IRL is 5000ft (1500m) AGL, while (navalized) sparrows were able to intercept sea skimming missiles 20ft above the wave tops. Now THAT is a difference that should be modeled properly.
@@artruisjoew5473 this may be true but they also don't model the near useless seeker on CW sparrows before the M the one that has an 85% fail rate on tracking
the problem with R-27 is not only it's maneuvering and chaff ignoring but that it can re-lock on targets instantly multiple times untill they fly by the target and miss while other missiles with re-lock capabilities just do a flip and shit themselves after witnessing a single chaff\enemy turning 30 degrees.
We could consider the remote possibility that, in a game notorious for spaghetti code, the “changes that weren’t nerfs”, still managed to break something in the Sparrow’s behavior
After managing to not score a kill on a F-104 that was: -not using chaff -not evading -not flying low -coming straight at me in a straight line -getting 4 AIM-7F fired at it I thoroughly have to question my sanity how this is even possible. I will upload the video soon.
Heya great video! I managed to reach F-14 in the last anniversary by being a gunslinger with f-5c. The BVR missile is still little confusing, but I say I am doing pretty well with the engagements for my first top tier air. Also, riding f-4j to practice BVR was also good practice for me as well. But, I say you should definitely make a guide on notching. I think you are the first one to present notching without making it too complicated to understand from enemy's perspective (that f-15 was not doing at all). I always cranked with aim-9e so I got that! also, never knew about the missile acceleration on the sparrow too. I knew I had to build up speed for the phoenix . Anyways thanks for a great coverage!
I'm relatively new to air battles in war thunder despite having 2 techtrees maxed out, i still can't make it past 1.0KDR because im having a hard time learning every tactics and standards. But i can affirm that Sparrows are as reliable as other counterparts, they are just a bit worse in some very specific statistics compared to R-27ER for example, which connects a bit more consistently. I am trying my best at BVR but still end up doing like 2 kills or something per match so... but yeah sparrows don't have any "issues", they are not bugged nor they are less efficient than other SARH missiles it's simply that people use them as if they were guided by god or something..
7:00 Well theoretically the lock sensitivity could make sparrows more susceptible to server issues if the sparrows are more sensitive Also anything that would allow for self requisition (fox 1 and fox 3’s) of an enemy would also not exhibit issues as much as any minor server issues could be self resolved by the missile in flight not requiring player input
This addressed exactly 0 of all the clips of sparrows completely spazzing out after launch lol I'm happy for you you're skilled at the game after thousands of hours, but other than this there's no takeaway on the documented issues
There’s a catastrophic cultural interplay between nafoids and r/warthunder and I seriously doubt it won’t just keep getting worse, free kills tho ig I can’t imagine the ruski bias shrieks if Gaijin actually started modeling conscan vs inverse monopulse lmao anyways you earned yourself a sub 07
Ok so the problem is of me not knowing how to actually use flares/chaff properly, having no idea on how the radar works even when I research, not paying attention and getting too focused on one target, and now knowing that I have a big connection to server issue I need to work out.I need to see what I need to do with my internet.
11 месяцев назад+7
The destruction time of AIM-7M buff after losing lock is not the same as the R-27ER where the ER can still predict the last known flight path of the target where the AIM-7F/M resets its position to 0-0-0 meaning it only flies straight when you lose lock of the target. Which is why we badly needing the AIM-7MH and AIM-7P where it can predict the last known flight path of the target when you lose lock that is the same on the R-27ER, but gaijin says "Nah, we don't want something that can have the same tech as our legendary R-27ER's". Also remember that the R-27ER's are late 1980's and AIM-7M is early 1970's. Which is why we are needing the later 1980's version of the Sparrows.
@@Skinny6539the aim7 loses lock and is unable to regain it, you and the guy who made this video are just yapping lmao, the sparrow will not regain lock after 3 seconds of losing signal
@@DigitalShaolin you just said it is unable to regain the lock after its lost, and its unable to regain the lock after 3 seconds in the same sentence.. if anyone’s yappin its you lil bro 💀 🙏
Just revisited top tier with F15 and our experience is strongly different. 3 games, 12 sparrows launched in optimal conditions, only 1 tracked properly xD Vs non manouvering tunel visioned targets, headon, at high alt with strong lock shot within 10km range being higher than a target. Only one from TWELVE hit. Rest didn't even flew in right direction :D
I think just from my experience. The major problem is not the pull or the speed or the range. But the fact that half the time when I started the sparrow, it would just stop trying to lock like I never tried to spool it up. In comparison for me the R-27ER would 99% always spool up properly. And it failing is why in head ons people with sparrows end up locking you long before launching.
Do you use fire missile key to spool up or lock missile key? Using either is sometimes unreliable due to server issue and is recommended to have both binded in the case of failure
I've had that happening on all missiles when using the same key to fire and spool it up, both ir and radar guided, NATO or Redfor, it's a common problem for every jet
This happens when you try to launch missile that has not finished spooling so it resets timer, or sometimes it just spools abnormally long and i have no idea why. Happens on every missile, frustrating af.
I watched this video first about at the time it came out. I did not comment back then (I think, or rather I hope) because at the time, the only experience with radar missiles I had, were french and soviet types. However, now that I am grinding the US and have flown my F-4J for a while, here are my thoughts: It is entirely possible that this is recency bias, but I do not recall the 530D or R27 really just chasing something entirely unaffiliated with the battle or nosediving for no discernable reason. So, I am definitely in the camp of "there is something wrong with the sparrow" for now, but not because of the reasons that others have given and rather because there is a separate group on reddit, which is pretty much the complete opposite of the ones you mention in your video: You can show them that you have a solid radar lock on an enemy, but the sparrow goes 50° off bore and instead TKs someone. Obviously, unlocking could have prevented this, but when people then spew bullshit like "those are sidelobes, totally normal behavior of your radar" it gets me a little angry, because that is not how sidelobes work. So, what is my conclusion? Mainly that, after grinding my way up a third time now and really no longer being used to capable radar missiles, I need to up my game because I have a lot of embarassing deaths to R-24Rs and other sparrows and I need to work on that.
I played the f14a back on release and i loved the 6 sparrow combo. But in my opinion the reason why sparrows seem bad now is that people are more educated on how to defeat them. Before on F14A release, no one knew how to dodge them. I believe its a shift in the meta. Also Im only 6.23 into the vid I hope you didnt go over this :D
From my experience sparrow is still a very deadly missile at br 12.0 and below. Planes there don't have complex rwrs and their countermeasures count is usually limited. I enjoy playing f14a with 6 sparrows even though I have unlocked f15 and su27 and from my experience sparrow is the best missile at that br
Your point on amerimains stands, But the reported problem was that aim7M would literally go straight for ground off the rail. I got into my f16adf, launched at a easy kill, went straight down. Took my f15, same problem. F14a, no problems at all with the F or E.
Props for using the F-14 soundtrack ^^ Something to be said for the ER's too, which are Extended Range not 2x Speed, which Gaijin messed up and clearly won't fix.
ER does not stand for Extended Range. Remember, its a russian designation, not english. In russian its P-27ЭP. The P, translating to R in english, is "Radar". Same as on the R-27R, R-24R, etc. The Э's closest translation in english is E, standing for "Energovo-oroozhonaya" in russian, or "High-powered". The R-27ER is a "high powered" version of the R-27R per its designation, not just an "Extended Range" version. And yeah, Meteor's soundtracks are incredible. Cant wait for the F-4E one soon so i can start using it in my videos.
@@DonutWithMustache True all of what you say there, but, to pull a Lee: Technically ( 😁) I didn't say it stood for Extended Range, but the ER's primary advantage over the R is indeed Extended Range, regardless the chief intention behind it's design & designation 😊 High powered is all good and nice, but according to Su-27 Flight Manual booklet-1. 2001. p. 129: R27ER: 2-65.5 km (1.2-40.7 mi) head-on, 0.7-16.5 km (0.43-10.25 mi) tail-on Maximum range: 117 km (73 mi). Vs R27R: 2-42.5 km (1.2-26.4 mi) head-on, 0.7-7.5 km (0.43-4.66 mi) tail-on. Maximum range: 73 km (45 mi). That's an almost insane 60%'ish/30mi increase in range over the R. I'm not disputing the R27ER being faster than the Aim 7, but the game's R27ER is apparently "5.8 M" which is Mach 1.4 faster than what even Wikipedia entry speculates, an argument could be made they took the HIGHEST speculative number available just to give Russian radar missiles an edge. It's kinda hard to achieve range improvements that notable by going full blast on both stages at the same time (speed loss when engine is outta fuel, not to mention physical constraints worthy of some worry, such as firing the 2nd stage while the 1st is still attached...). So specifically, what do you mean "Not just extended range" and "high powered"? Even if we discarded the above, said source also states: "Missile cannot be fired at altitude less than 3 km (1.9 mi) against a target with background earth, if launch range is less than 6 km (3.7 mi). Maximum range: 117 km (73 mi). Maximum allowed vertical separation: 12 km (7.5 mi)." And yet how often haven't we all seen Su-27 and indeed Yak-141 & MiG-29 launched R27ER's easily connect while being well within said altitude and background parameters that according to the manual states would usually cause a clear miss? In fact I believe I can safely make the claim that namely all that is being constantly done successfully on the regular. Again not dunking on you or anything, but as far as the Redditor's you're poking fun at, which btw 1) They didn't even bother to google, and 2) I'm not on Reddit (I hope it disappears), while 3) Being factually wrong so it's their bad and is grounds to get destroyed on RUclips video, might not (key words here) be as completely outta ballpark as you're seemingly (also keyword) letting on. Also, I realize you had to play a bit to get good footage so not to clunk your efforts in any way, but you claim F-15 players are not smart. And indeed, from what I'm seeing in your footage you're getting easy mode left, right and center. So if you want a challenge try EU servers at late night for GMT +1 'ish vs true sweats with somewhat more intelligence (not that I ever made the claim) and you'll see F-15's aren't entirely the "muh 100:1" free kills as you show. Anyway, enough rambling from me. Also looking forward to the F-4E, it's gonna be rad 👍 Sry for wasting your time, see you on the flight line! 🙏
@ToreDL87 statcard 5.8M is bullshit and even at optimal (damn high) altitude by the end of booster phase ER can't reach this speed. Just in general take everything on the WT statcards with a grain of salt, they are often questionable lol As for the "can't engage targets below 3km" it's not as clear as it says, it applies to all SAHR and basically means when both launching aircraft and target are below 3k the radar interference is large enough to potentially disrupt tracking. It doesn't apply when shooting at high targets or low targets from high altitude not to mention in general there are a lot of variables (for ex. what is target background? )
@@m1sz3lpl24 Yo! Yeah that's all fair points 100%👍 On the subject of B$ though, important to note and make clear the fact that while quoting Gaijin's 5.8M number, that's not to mean I'm saying the in-game R27ER and it's export variants reached 5.8M in a couple seconds within current in-game parameters. But it do be a fast telephone pole alright👌 As for the speed itself, yeah valid point and like I said they probably took the highest possible number from somewhere. Probably Gaijin tested at MUCH higher altitude than what constitutes the norm in the current meta (20000 meters or thereabouts). Clearly I never stated most launched R27ER's in the game goes Mach 5.8, as for what speed it reaches in current meta I don't know, but it's clearly enough to be wildly superior in current meta. "Current meta" being keywords I say often here, though not to annoy you or anything, but because simply put, current meta is always in a state of flux, as a matter of course. And with the introduction of dynamic BR ratings, it will be even more so. The in-game R27ER accelerates and goes way faster, and keeps it's faster speed for longer, and outmaneuvers it's counterpart, the Aim 7 in most if not all launch conditions in the current meta. Heck I've had multiple CC's and multiple of their affiliates & squadron mates, all with great stats in other top tier jets, telling me straight out that as fun as it can be to challenge or use a cracked radar missile, it's downright criminal how it hasn't been adjusted not just given what little is known about it, but also in the name of fair play. You can 1) Be way slower than your opponent, wait until he launches Aim 7F/M at you before you fire R-27ER, and your R-27ER still connects way before. Done deal there, as most can agree. And 2) Given a bit of speed, you can literally Matrix dodge the Aim 7F/M, as illustrated and substantiated in Seek's "How To EVADE Radar Missiles | War Thunder" video. Of course if it were just 1 of the above, that'd be a different story and maybe Reddit wouldn't be exploding like it is or whatever the story is over there. As for what target background, again, valid point, so let's look back at what's stated: "Missile cannot be fired at altitude less than 3 km (1.9 mi) against a target with background earth, if launch range is less than 6 km (3.7 mi)" "background earth" And no offense but it doesn't get any clearer, there's the parameter, background earth, i.e LOWER than the Su-27 or pressed up against a mountain. And again, haven't we all hugged the ground or a mountain vs a Su-27/MiG-29/Yak-141 less than 6km out and 1.5-3km off the ground while we're WAY down counting flower petals, and the sodded thing still connects to our face? 🙂 I've been grinding 4 top tier aircraft and unlocked 3 of them (incl the corresponding assortment of aircraft in lower BR) within 12 days, so while not the best player (nor have I ever claimed I was or am) I've at least been online for a bit in the current top tier meta. I've either seen or done a lot of launches at those parameters, and seen them connect clean. Now, I've been getting enough (valid, mind you) feedback here, so to make it clear: I'm not saying those desperate lower altitude R27-ER launches ALWAYS connects on planes all but growing on the ground. But it does(!!) happen a lot. I'd be pretty much well within my rights to claim all that probably happened to Donut while he was making footage for this video too, rest assured he would have interjected right about when I said it the first time around. He didn't, and that, could be argued is telltale that I'm at least somewhere within earshot of ballpark'ish. In my current opinion, in those launch parameters, the R27ER is both too slow and heavy (still on first stage and so will not have burned as much of it's fuel, thus, heavier, slower, not as maneuverable) to connect as much as it does. Worryingly more so in fact, that, in my opinion, it warrants a few small adjustments to acceleration and maneuverability. Mind you, not be confused with me saying it's top speed has to be nerfed. But nowhere (that I'm currently aware) has the subject of the R27ER's acceleration and maneuverability been brought up in any capacity to speak of. So I'm saying it's acceleration and maneuverability might do with getting dialed down a bit given the current meta. Anyway, in the words of Reagan, there I go again. Sorry if anything I've said rubs off on you the wrong way. Assuming you have no issues with current missile performances, rest assured I'm not here to take away from that. Plus, none of what I say here is ever taken close at heart by anyone at Gaijin anyway 😅 I came here chiefly just because I wanted to interact with Donut & his community, give him a like & comment because I like the content ☺ I'm happy to say both have exerted top notch responses 😁 If'n I wasted your time and you don't reply I wish many more successful Aim 7 engagements go your way (yes they DO happen) and see you on the flight line 🙏
People do forget that this is a game and Gaijin has to balance things out. The game is Semi-historically accurate at best. Also, AIM-7 isn't exactly the best missile historically speaking.
damn you ppl are cancer. The AIM-7s work as intended but they dont compete with the R-27 which is the issue. Also why irl the Us rarely uses them over Aim-120s if ever. Plus most ppl refer to Aim-7s just going off on their own even in optimal launch conditions. and before you use the excuse of "skill issue" I actually have a 60%+ win rate in the thing with a decently high k/d
@@F-18Super the normal R-27R Is shit , I'm a Russian main and i know how bad that shit is , the R-24 is way better , the only good missiles Russia have is the R-27ER , R-27ET and R-24R
This video shows perfectly what's wrong with the top tier (I'm not a good player myself but doing Japanese and Russian trees for F15j and Mig 23s I learned something) the US players often are keyboard-clicking monkeys and sometimes they'll get something right but too often being the only Japanese F15 or F16 on the US team I knew it would be a loss. I do not want to offend anyone because I know very well that everyone has their own problems I myself am a wallet warrior but still my 1st top tier premium was bought after i had jets with missiles
OK here is my several paragraphs as requested, admittedly bit longer that I intended but I wanna get my thoughts and experience down, this is kinda just thrown down with no real structure sooo I’m gonna ramble. One thing this video didn't address that I was hoping it would is that clip of the AIM-7 nose diving into the dirt immediately after launch, I'm not some level 12 base bomber, I've been using the AIM-7's almost as long as they have been in the game and this issue is very new, my missile sometimes pull max G in a random direction (Aim-9's sometimes included in that but hard to tell coz it's the 9M) with no noticeable reason why or the other times it will work perfectly and miss the target because... reasons. The target is flying in a straight line, no countermeasures, at 5-7km's not notching or not flying close to the ground (whatever that is called) where RADAR's all go fucky wucky, a trick I use all the time but despot having the perfect shot the missile misses at the last second or if it doesn't someone with an R-27ER behind me who launched the missile after me kills the oblivious prick because his missile is faster Other issues I more commonly find in the F-16C (with the HMD) is why I would be included in the "Noob US player not defending flying in a straight line" because I'm trying to figure out what the fuck my RADAR is doing, the ACM mode will lock onto everything that isn't the enemy (mostly another missile) and TWS does... things. Resulting in me dying because I'm paying attention to that for 2-3 seconds which is a long time to not be paying attention. 99% of my deaths are to Friendly fire, an enemy I didn't see (because you can't look every direction all the time while flying at 1500km/h between trees’ and the spotting system is a bit shit at this tier) or because most planes are sluggish at supersonic speeds and can’t get close to the ground fast enough to use that trick when an R-27ER is launched at me at close range… but I can do it against AIM-7’s and R-530D’s… so yes the R-27ER is objectively better in every meaningful way than the AIM-7, Shut up (not saying we need the AIM-120, no we DO NOT NEED THAT, all people who say that are fucking idiots) Though one thing I have noticed is my missiles don't fail when I attack players away from the main fur-ball but in the chaos they do. If I catch a player out in the flanks, as one of the last few or in a custom match to test it, I can get it to work but the instant I'm around most of the enemy’s team, things just stop working. But if I only target stragglers I either get no kills or stuck in a 10 V 1, no thank you. While I don't have any top MiG’s, yet I do have the MiG-23 MLA and have use it... a lot, and I’ve had none of these issues, I fly both planes the exact same way and the 16 suffers but the MiG doesn’t (maybe bullying F-4S’s during an event would cause the... not sure). The R-24's most likely reason to miss was either target flew at tree top level, or they died to something else (which is fair and part of the game). Though I will have the MiG-29G soon (when the 30% sale drops), so I can test that... once I suffer the stock grind. I was hoping this video would be a helpful guide to adjust my play style to a new mechanic, but Donut essentially just said “it’s a skill issue” and doesn’t even address the clip he showed of the AIM-7 nose diving after launch. I thought he was going to say something along the lines of “the AIM-7 doesn’t work at low altitude because something something ground BS and they work better at higher altitudes.” But on that, every time I climb I get swatted by an R-27ER using the lock-on-after-launch thing, so never knew it was coming. But the fly low theory I had falls apart when I remember the R-24 works perfectly fine close to the ground. Though I can say with confidence I never die to an F-16’s AIM-7’s, I do to F-15’s and even thinking about it I don’t die to Gripens or Mirages SARHM’s either, so I’m not just another shit US premium bomber player. Just saying “Get Good” doesn’t help solve anything except A-10’s dying to MiG-19’s. My issues in the F-16C are my missiles have ADHD, my RADAR locking onto everything but the enemy and the R-27ER (and ET to an extent) is too good. Also, not enough countermeasures (if I run mixed, I run out to quickly). I Haven’t played the F-15 since patch day, purely because I want to save it’s RP bonuses for the next top fighter (I have every US plane) and most of its success was from bullying little Timmy and his GE Su-27, so not much to draw on (though the stock grind was painful a usual). And the F-14 is too slow for my liking, hence why I only play the F-16C at top tier US. Though on a kinda related note, for the memes and the pure chaotic bullshit it would unleash on the game would be only planes marked as "Bomber" can bomb bases, just to watch people who bomb with F-4S's and F-20's panic as they have no clue what the fuck to do. And just for the fun of it, the ground units don't spawn in for the first 10 minutes... because everything is a fighter if you try hard enough (I have a reputation for using 4 engine bombers as gunships... coz fuck it). Air RB is team death match and I want a team I can at least rely on to attempt to fight the enemy and not a building. And make the Ju-288 a Strike Aircraft and move it to 7.0, coz suffer bitch. You ruined 6.0 I literally wrote a 1000+ word essay on this... god I'm... fucking stupid... I hope this is some what coherent
fun fact, i was the f16c that posted that clip in the video to Reddit, but for some reason the title was different, but the name and f16c decals are 100% mine, i have 1000s of clips of 7ms going completely dumb with optimal lock conditions, while at this time the aim7F worked like a charm, the 7m now works perfectly fine though
@@Thunderbox247 exactly, he actually went into one of the reddit comment sections of a post that was made about the video, and got cooked, rightfully so for just making a video saying "U.S. players just shit"
@@marshall-yo5ho since seeing this video I have been trying to find put why the 7M sucks, the R-27R will do it to BUT the ER won't. Still wanna do further testing to see I am correct or just a coincidence
The real reason people are upset about the Sparrow missile is that they just don't work like they did around two years ago. The Sparrow missiles have been in a bad spot for a while, but it was only when the F-15 came out that many players finally recognized that something had changed. There are many reasons, but the primary one is the R-27ER. That missile outclasses the Sparrow in every category so the Sparrow can't win in a fair fight. This helped drive the meta to be dominated by nimble light fighters, and the US, Japan, and Israel all had great F-16s so those players just stopped using planes that relied on Sparrows. The transition to the F-15 was extremely rough and most players did poorly in the F-15. Another issue is that players are much more knowledgeable on how missiles work so they are better able to defeat them. This has made it harder to kill people with the missile. The missile also just became funky a year ago where it just stopped making hits it used to be able to do. The Sparrow missile can still do extremely well, but it has a much tighter window of effectiveness. If you haven't played the Sparrow in over a year, you pretty much have to learn a new weapon.
After playing DCS I am so positively surprised that the Sparrow doesn't just give up all tracking capabilities at 5km. I do think that the F-4EJ with the AIM-7E is a genuinely ass weapons platform, but through no fault of the missile.
9:17 THAT KILL WAS INSANE!!! I always wondered why IR missile seekers could lock out to like 11 miles, THAT WAS GENIUS! Imagine the kid on the tricycle from the Incredibles... THAT WAS TOTALLY WICKED!!! That was my reaction once I figured out what you did about 2 seconds after launch.
@@DonutWithMustache Ah yes. That one clip in this video surely negates all complaints. It definitely wasn't just you cherry-picking the one time it actually worked as advertised. The sparrow certainly never wobbles around in flight or goes off on its own after being fired despite a solid lock and optimal launch conditions.
You are absolutely correct, Sparrows truly aren't R27-ERs, but every time these players that complain are 1 month old toptier players, not knowing what to do.
I’m just curious, where’s your footage of your sparrows when they miss? Did you seriously go 2 whole weeks without any incident where your sparrows went wild?? Or is this just your opportunity to be a jerk towards US mains? I’ll admit that a lot of players, regardless of nation, don’t know what they’re doing… but I do know what I’m doing. I usually do quite well, however, I have had sparrows go wild several times. I’ve had them nose dive for no reason, I’ve had them pass right by an enemy and not detonate. There is something up with the Sparrows, or atleast was during the timeframe I was using them. I also noticed you didn’t use your Su-27 to its full potential, to show how significantly more powerful it is than the F-15. Comical attempt at being “logical”, drenched in derision towards US players.
> sparrow missing Yeah so have you even watched the video? I admitted the sparrows missed a few times, but not only was it very little (less than 5% of launches), but it also happened to other missiles (R-27ER and 530D)
@@DonutWithMustache You're not gonna convince him of jack, he doesn't care about anything you have to say he thinks you've attacked his video game faction and wants to discredit you.
yep, this video is just USSR main bullshit, you may ignore since F-15A really was underpowered before the ARH deployed. ‘R-27ER superiority’ was the worst nightmare of top-tier jet balance, even was harder than ‘danger zone’ update.
i watched the whole video, and i have not disagreed to even SINGLE point/sentance you made as a french OTP, this is truly one of the videos of all the time.
As a US main I don't know how I should feel. Part of me feels insulted by the fact Donut just keeps insulting every US player, and the other part completely agrees with him. Would I be considered a US noob since I got to top tier with the A10 premium when the F14A just came out? Never really bombed bases much but I did use the AIM9L so it took me some time getting used to the lower pulling rear aspect missiles. And a hot minute learning to not spam flares in an aircraft with only a few. But I did my time with the F4J and F8E and eventually the F14A. And I have just recently finished researching all the US planes and getting starting on Israel. Maybe I'm just getting pressed for feeling like I'm being attacked even though I'm not :/
There are times when the AIM 7 is great and there are times when they fail to track and just today for some reason my f15 radar keeps losing lock on planes flying towards me every single time I try to lock them up like the same bug that pretty much everyone experienced in the test server when the f15, su 27, and gripen were said to come out. Edit: nearly forgot I experienced the same thing while playing the mig 29 for a short bit, so it maybe the return of that specific bug, but I haven't seen any recent posts about this yet
I haven't played in a while and I came to this video wondering "what did gaijin do to the sparrows? They were fine when I left?" I'm relieved that everything is fine
Can't believe they're complaining about sparrows. I've been playing top tier for 2 weeks and never got killed by R-27. Instead, i ALWAYS get killed by a random Sparrow, even notching, chaffing and jinking can't trash the missile, and yet they still complain?
I think the main issue with sparrows that makes their problems so noticeable is just how good the r74 is that thing is nuts especially when used with the helmet mounted thingy also while I do think the sparrow is good they always seem inconsistent at the worst times possible on like rear aspect stuff or even easy head ons Idk I've kinda stopped playing anything above 10.7 to 11.0 anything above that is to much of "hey have you played ace combat yeah well check this out" Hear me out ive got 1000 hours I know how to use my radars and it's just kinda inexplicable how the aim 7 sometimes shits the bed Anyways for those of you struggling in general focus on learning energy management and defensive flying first then aiming and bvr I say this because those first two things will keep you alive while the second will let you get kills and be aware always be looking up and around you even in fights you need to have good situational awareness of not just yourself but everything going on around you
it has been 1 month, I've just watched my 8th or so r24r not go for a clearly painted enemy and instead kill my teammate even after I noticed and took off the lock. truly a us main skill issue and defiantly not at all in any way a bug.
This video feels like calling the problem "skill issue, git gud america" and skips over actual random and strange sparrow behavior outside of launching under bad parameters. You never talk about experiencing erratic missile behavior like point a missile head on onto an enemy and watching it travel 90 degrees horizontally across the screen.
Exactly. I have took the F-4S into a test flight, get a good clean lock against the MIG-15... and launch the Sparrow, only to see it go in the opposite direction of the slow moving, easy target that is the MIG-15 not pulling any evasive maneuvers or anything.
Solid take but tbf at 13:30 I feel like the 27er just out accelerates the sparrow even if he cranks. Generally isn’t it better to just not take the joust with 27er? Edit: Also most players are us mains in air rb so it makes sense the most complaints we hear about missiles going stupid would be from us mains, biasing the data towards the sparrow being bad! When in actuality it’s the second best radar missile lmao.
The reddit is prob the worst part of the community. if you don't go by their exact echo chamber schizo rants then you are wrong. cas=bad, naval is cringe, and air is unbalanced or unfair without any reasoning. Seriously they make the forums look friendly and welcoming in comparison.
I was a fairly new player to top-tier as I bought the f4s only having grinded to 10.0 in russian tree but I had no problem using sparrows and honestly in my opinion I think they are one of the most reliable and one of the better missles in the game I rarely have one miss and if I do it's because I lost track on someone doing proper evasive maneuvers (chaffing and notching) it's not difficult to use a sparrow they are proably the most user friendly missles ever all you got to do is watch one youtube video or just test fly a plane with sparrows and you will pretty quickly get the hang of them I got 2 kills my very first match in the f4s with sparrows also being my first top tier game ever it's not hard just stop turning off your brains guys
Exellent video and i agree pretty much 100% I think its also very much a case of confirmation bias. The top tier American players complaining about how broken the ER is and how bad the sparrows are only ever see the ER that kills them, not the ones that miss or get easily notched.
@@williewilson2250say it to its DL capability. I played both of them, and Flanker is the most OP since 'Danger Zone' update. Defensive maneuvers might extend your life but don't give any chance to flankers. F-15 and Su-27 should have gap within its BR, and its just Mirage 4000 should go 12.3 again. But, yes. It's also still in compression, so best scenario would be 13.0 flanker & gripens and 12.7 eagles.
in ground at least it can be excused because most of the team is KVT and M1 Clickbait premium wallet warriors. In air, especially since the 12.7 change, the US teams can be 100% tech tree vehicles and still throw the game.
Sparrows are 100% broken but just randomly I genuinely watched it actively home I fired on a 29i died but a whole 5 seconds later it killed him when turning
How have I not seen you before, this is such a high quality video, when I first watched I thought u were some massive youtuber that I just haven't seen before. Keep up the good work, hope you get a gaijin partnership at some point. Edit: a tutorial on chaff and chaffing while doing cas would be nice
Thank you GOD for being a voice of intelligence here. I have a few friends who basically went down the conspiracy rabbit hole. One of them even said pretty much "I know I'm right because so many people on the forums and reddit agree with me. And there are thousands of documented examples of Aim-7's failing. Gaijin hates US tech!" (I am not exaggerating this. He even went further). I asked for proof and he basically told me to go do my own research instead of providing one (He either has no source or is just that far up his own ass). I think people tend to forget that just because allot of people scream something is wrong, that does not actually mean there is a problem... Confirmation bias is a bitch sometimes...
Firstly, I'm not a main of any nation. I play a variety of nations both air and ground. I also tend to prefer NATO vehicles. So suck it there. Secondly, The comment was never about which missile is better. Your brain is reading what it wants to read. It was, in the context of the video, about how people say the missile itself is bugged, or has been shadow-nerfed, etc. when there is no evidence of that which I have ever been shown. I see these failures with every missile eventually. Third, to humor you. Yes, the Aim-7F/M is worse than the R-27ER. Who could have guessed the missile like 10+ years newer with an enhanced motor segment would be better. But aside from that, the Aim-7F/M is underperforming a bit from where it should. But even if the missile was accurate, it wouldn't be an equal to the ER. Not that it matters much since Aim-120 and R-77 are not very far away. And those missiles very much ARE more or less equals.
@@Registered_Simp yes, the problem is with having a missile 10+ years newer that literally does everything better than any other radar missile at its tier by a wide ass margin while having missiles like the aim54 phoenix not get their realistic features and the f15a msip we have ingame not even having the right radar. I’m making the point that the problem with the sparrows isn’t some “git gud skill issue” as this video makes it out to be. the missile is just bad along with every other sarh ingame compared to the r27er. also its not like gaijin never nerfed the sparrow unrealistically, for example the missile detonating after losing lock and them making the fins reset to 0 despite the missile having a autopilot irl. In addition to this the top speed ingame of the r27er is Mach 5.8, in real life it’s 4.5. My point is the the r27er is a broken missile, it should’ve never been on the su27.
@@DigitalShaolin Yes, the ER is strong. Yes, it is the best Fox-1 in the game. That much can't be denied. And no, that stat card value is BS. ER does not get past mach 4.5 in most cases. outside of high speed, high altitude. What I'm saying is that yes, there is a large degree of "Skill Issue" in this. Cause many people just can't defend them properly when they are perfectly defendable. In a clean, even situation, yes, the Aim-7 user will be at a disadvantage. But many scenarios are NOT clean an even. That's what I'm getting at with the "Skill Issue" part since allot of US players specifically, even when they are in an advantageous position, will completely fuck it when their hand isn't being held
@@Registered_Simp to actually be in an advantageous position against the r27er it would take a very serious fuckup of the su27 user. you can’t just excuse some broken addition by saying that technically if the person using the busted missile is brain dead and your defyn you can kill them with sparrows. because a good f4e pilot can kill a gripen if the gripen pilot is lobotomized. If it requires a very serious skill issue with the su27 pilot for them to lose, sure us teams are stupid… but having a missile that constantly puts you in a disadvantageous position from the start and having less of them certainly doesn’t help, because it’s not like if the two pilots are equal skill or if the su27 pilot is anything but brain dead, it doesn’t matter what happens; any other plane will lose a sarh engagement
Man this vid was dissapointing. Thought i was finally gonna learn why my r24rs and aim7ms were managing to miss targets flying in a straight line at 1km alt literally ignoreing the launch. Nope, just a classic "skill issue" ignore the actual issues with sparrows.
8:37 idk why but when I play F5E I have like 5 kills per game and when I go with my F16 i get killed without getting a kill, that's what u call skill issue
Being both a China main (J-11 and JH-7A for Ground RB) and a USA Main in air and ground RB I will say the difference in the air seems so off. Talking about air RB; I drop consistent 2-5 kill games in the J-11 (it's incredibly fun and op) but in the F-15A and F-16's (A, ADF and C) I cannot get AIM-7 kills for the life of me. They almost always seem to veer way off, basically pull a 90 degree or more turn within a couple seconds of being launched and either fly off and self-detonate or hit the ground if I'm low enough. I've yet to actually get a kill today after over 2 hrs of gameplay. Not too sure where my skill issue is there, but I really don't understand the inconsistencies between the Su-27's/J-11's radar guided missiles and the AIM-7s. They really should be on-par with eachother for balancing reasons but those R-27ER1's absolutely destroy in my hands but I'm a complete potato with the AIM-7Ms. All that said, the AIM-9Ms make up for it a bit and let the US still have some fun, but with how inconsistent the 7M's are I just wish I could carry more than 6 9Ms.
The R-27ER is far better than the AIM-7M/F ingame, there is no denying that. But just because the AIM-7M/F are not the best, doesn't mean they are bad. They are still the second best radar missiles at top tier, considering far worse missiles like the Skyflash and Super 530F exist on a handful of top tier jets for some reason. The doppler rates on the R-27ER are far high than those of the AIM-7M/F, meaning that a ER is more likely to track a cold target than a AIM-7M/F, not to mention the ER's datalink; it basically lets the ER be far more forgiving. You can pull off some launches with the ER that a Sparrow will simply not track and veer off into nowhere. Once again, this can be easily fixed by simply learning the limits of the sparrow and using it correctly.
i cant agree more to say sparrows are like a 50/50, they either do imposible kills, or fly straight to the ground or to space the moment i fire them even at high altitudes
been playing Italian F-16 ADF for a while and love the AIM-7M, get confuse by bunch of people complaining about it. if the country player base had smaller skill level gaijin should know it but they stay at "statistic" rather than reality.
My Sparrow experience goes like this: Completely ignores enemy evasive maneuvers, chaff and will just have its own radar to guide with because my lock is focused on a cloud of chaff, or it will launch from the rail and immediately nose dive into dirt when aiming at co-level/climbing targets.
As someone who caved into my friends and bought the old event Tornado for the Germans (it dipped below 50 gaijin coin, and I don’t regret a thing) I’d love to see a guide on how I can more effectively avoid radar missiles, considering how many times I’ve been obliterated by Strelas in GRB already
Strela is ir missle. And its absolutely bonkers. It dosent care about range or flares or evasive manouvers. If you get locked 90% of time you die thats it. Just fly rly low so they cant see you at all from trees or whatever and you should be fine bcs it dosent have any radar at all.
And this video shows the reason, why i always say that i am a Goodish pilot. I can hold my self in a Dogfight, but when it comes to BVR? Yea im a bit of a lost cause there… but atleast i am trying to evade incoming missiles?
Idk I've had a few aim 7f fly right over the target after launching in between 10km-5km but I've had some insane launchs land (launch as I was dodging or fast shot while chasing and it went for a different player)
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sparrows will either miss the easiest shot ever or hit the most insane physics breaking bs
and nothing in between
Yeah. My expierence with a sparrow it: it miss a straight flying object just because the object is lower, still high above ground. Or do 90 degree turn and hit a hard manouvering F16 at it's optimal speed droping flares, chaff and shit but still manages to do a crazy spin, almost 360 and hit a target
true that@@farhanrahmaddani3218
@@adrianstachowski9422fr. its like me in fps games. i either hit the craziest shots and wipe the floor with the enemy team, or do fuck all, miss the easiest shots, and get the lowest kd ratio known to man lmao
@@nitrous_god in fps games (cod mostly) it might be just skill based match making ;)
not having a "sparrows doNut work" pun in the thumbnail is disappointing
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined.
Hi freezed
Unwatchable now
US mains single handedly reversing the K/D ratio of the F-15 .3 seconds after release
I swear on god that i found a guy saying that the F-15 should be moved to 11.7 because its "suffers" in 12.3
@@mixmaster3043he suffers from mental problems
@@mixmaster3043 Ah yes. Cause any of the following planes should be capable of fighting an F-15 in addition to the ones that already do...
-J35XS
-F-104G/S
-F-5E/A
-F-4E/EJ/Kurnass
-Su-22
-Sea Harrier FRS.1
-J35XS
-JA37C
-AJS37
-Mig-23M
-Mig-21bis
-Su-25BM
-J-7E
-J-8B
Fuck is bro smoking? 💀💀💀
@@Registered_Simpit should be a 12.7 for sure
Stock grind bro, that's hard
Still waiting on the radar, notching, and defensive maneuvering guide video 😂
+1 Yes, pretty please!
I heavily need that guide to come out, too!
Turn 90 degrees and depending on the missile, turn right or light while holding 90 degrees, if you are high altitude chaff as well.
I've noticed that ever since this major update, missiles, in general, have become more screwy. My ERs/AIM 7s screw up A LOT more often. They either won't fuse, or they'll just fly off into Narnia or just stop tracking despite maintaining lock. I genuinely think they screwed up something with the servers/cheaped out on them/servers have been under more strain. Especially after today where my sparrows worked 60% of the time on perfect launches and my 9Ls were doing the exact same thing with not fusing despite almost grazing the people they were fired at. I even had a sparrow go after a teammate 3km away from the guy I was locked onto (with a 4km distance launch). It didn't even try to go after the guy I locked on to
Yeah, that seems about right. You almost feel happy when the sparrow does its job these days. I've had shots where the missile went left when the locked enemy was to my right, a couple of them, in fact.
I've had SARH missiles from all nations have adhd and just go off and do what it wanted. Its something they did with the seeker heads. For an example me and a buddy were in a custom server and both doing a head on and my missile cork screws and his follows after it. I had the ER he had the 7M. Its kinda funny.
@cobracommander4609 Oh yeah I agree that it's all radar missiles. I've used both (have Russia, Japan, and Sweden for reference) and both of them tend to just randomly not fuse on people or they just give up on tracking. I've noticed that the ERs seem to track better, but they don't actually fuse more often, and then for the sparrows it's the other way around. I've used 530Fs as well, but not enough to form a opinion on them. Tbh I just carry full IR load outs for the most part nowadays thanks to it
So ur teammate was closer then… isn’t that exactly what he says in the video that ur doing wrong?
@@swarbrickehead ons as in standard launch ranges of 10-15 miles at 8-10,000 feet. Is what we were doing. So correct ranges and alts for the tests. Not mad at the results just think it’s funny
I aspire to the level of genius it takes to come up with "double lobotomized donkeys with the iq of the plastic cd case for the bluray copy of top gun maverick"
No one cares what nazis think.
ai cant replicate this
After about 30 seconds on google, I found out that F-16 pilots train anywhere from 6-9 months before they can fly the F-16, and some sources say it takes upwards of 2 YEARS before they're even allowed to fly in combat. I can assume that it's about the same for the F-15, so that 100-0 KD really isn't just because the plane is good.
@@ADGMagic and c) mig21/23 are built to be a part of a complex air defense system with ground search radars and gci (manual and automatic) guidance, which was absent at the third world countries f15 fought in
@@ADGMagic yeah, and when it met something comparable, namely the Mig-25, the fights was pretty even
@@ADGMagic Then you don't know enough.
You can start with battle of samurra
An issue ive been having with sparrows since even before the last major update are 2 things: It not fusing, and having it stop tracking 1 second before impact on a flawless lock backdroped by open sky.
I dont have any other radar missiles myself, but i always fly with friend in the french techtree who doesn't have this issue. In fact whenever he's spectating me fire sparrows, his dialog always goes something like this:
"You see that flanker? Yeah fire-yeah... oh hes cooked, its over for him hes fucking cooke- WHAAAAAAT?????"
We've coined these common occurrences as "sparrow moments"
If it helps explain how in any way, maybe me being on xbox somehow has something to do with it? Maybe something with my settings? Because I know having HDR on fucks with the server replay. I really just don't know.
From my experience if your target drops chaff when your fox1 is really close to it, the missile will magically start tracking chaff even in a perfect head on shot. Luckily most of the players don't abuse this stupid gaijin 'get out of jail' card
I would love to see your tutorials on jets, especially for people who recently got into flying jets (me included). The tutorials from others' yt channel 2 years ago do helped but the state of the air RB jet has changed drastically. It would really help people who just got introduce to jets. Good luck with F-104s, I'm looking forward to seeing their meme guide!
Watch DEFYN. In all of his videos he explains what he's doing and why he's doing it. The best air rb player I've ever seen
lol no, watch defyn or literally anyone else except this kid
@@jcool42069 DEFYN don't play like this guy, its a another way to play.
the only 'proper' bvr experience I have is shitting 2 AMRAAM in a DCS F-16C at 33k fts, dive to the deck, then crash because I run out of fuel. So I have nothing to say about top tier
I feel like the f-15 not being the reason its kd is so high is kinda wrong. The f-15 in real life came 10 years before the mig-29 and su-27, the engineerings and pilots were the reason the f-15 were dominant
F-15As in USAF service didnt even have flares for the first 15 or so years. Those got added in the MSIP upgrade later.
@DonutWithMustache what does that have to do with it? It's the worst case scenario. the opponent was a mig 23.
@DonutWithMustache and it got flares dispensers they just never used them because the flares had trouble igniting at its operational altitude, not to mention flares didn't really cover the engines heat signature, it's not like video games where flares just make the missile lose lock especially the early missile.
This guy’s argument is right and wrong at the same time. While part of it obviously was US training, tactics, etc. the plane itself still played a huge role. The reason the F-15 was facing “outdated” jets wasn’t because it was facing third world countries (many of these countries were directly funded with top of the shelf USSR equipment) but because comparatively it was simply that much more advanced for its time. Even throughout the early 1980s the main fighting force of the USSR was still the Mig-21. This doesn’t translate to War Thunder because BR isn’t sorted by historical timeframe. So yeah, it’s easy to say “It only fought Mig-21s” but when you take into account those weren’t just “outdated” jets but the literal backbone of USSR & Warsaw Pact air superiority it’s not hard to recognize that the F-15 simply was a great plane.
@@mr.ballstone1914
The F-15 was a great plane and i respect it, but please do a 10 second google search before saying incorrect things.
"by the 1980s the Soviet air force was mostly MIG-21s" is just wrong. MiG-21s were gradually phased out in the 70s, except for MiG-21Bis. The primary bulk of the Soviet air force going into the 80s was MiG-23s. By the early 80s, you had aircraft such as the MiG-29 (1983) and Su-27 (1984) entering service as well, forming the back bone by the end of the decade. By the time the USSR collapsed, MiG-23 and 21 were only in reserve service/storage, with MiG-29 and Su-27 forming the bulk of the fighting force.
Had the F-15 faced the Soviet Airforce any time after 1985, it would have faced Su-27s and MiG-29s almsot always. The F-15 never faced the Soviet air force directly, and we can never know for sure how it wouldve done. there is no way around this truth.
What it did face was Syrian MiG-21, 23 and Su-22, Iraqi MiG-21, 23, 25, and Mirage F1, and Yugoslav MiG-21 and 29. Half of those Iraqi kills were against un-armed aircraft trying to escape to Iran for safety after the third day of the war. Until the F-15 faces against a Su-27, the aircraft designed to equal it in performance, we can not make a true deduction of the F-15's performance.
Have you looked at the F-15's official kill dossier provided by the USAF?
The F-15 is a great aircraft and i respect it for what it is, but if it was half as "unstoppable" as people on the internet claim it is, the US wouldn't have to list a IL-76 and some unarmed transport helicopters as "air to air combat kills" for the F-15, as if the IL-76 cargo transport was somehow supposed to fight back in a fair fight.
As a Japanese main i noticed that the aim7 got screwed with, but im pretty sure it was all missiles, like bs 45° turn to hit a teammate i didn't have lock on, when the enemy was straight ahead. Also the most annoying problem for me is the radar getting stuck in lock mode for like 30 seconds where you cant stop it and have to turn your radar on and off to fix it, it's gotten me killed a lot
8:13 the fact he has put f16c back at 12.3 under his username says it all
You SAW! he gave himself away earlier too lol
Actually there REALLY IS the Server-Sided Issues, and It really happens in every SARHs.
But R-27ER is capable to re-acquire targets since it has DL capability, therefore any other SARHs sometimes go wrong completely.
I still don't know is it missile logic or PID, but the fact is SARHs really goes wrong, and especially sparrows can go wrong too. Only R-27ER performs reliably.
Russian Bias confirmed!
AIM-7s are really weird with me, sometimes they'll veer off randomly for no reason (though this is kinda rare) and other times they'll refuse to stop tracking an enemy even if i haven't had them locked for 10+ seconds, them flying into clouds, near the deck, chaffing etc. It's like the missile is fueled on pure spite and rage alone
and if you pause for a brief second at 1:44 you can almost hear the cry of a MiG-21bis player watching a jet die right before his missile connects
another W upload, can’t wait for the next meme guide!
Hi lucy
@@mewhenitfriday hi mew
Alot of my sparrow hate comes from the F-4J. I now know that its the radar/user error/pain of 11.3 uptiers is the problem. Not the missile.
but it seems my sparrows are hitting and not exploding, or just flying right by even in a headon with enough time to fuse
Using planes like the F-14/15/16, it is the missile, it has sidelobes that are way too sensitive
Nah, i had multiple moments in F-4J where my AIM-7E-2 just nose-dived to the ground when the enemy started to climb or AIM-7F fly so close they left a scar on enemy pilot's face but did not detonate and just flew to the sky.
Just wanna drop that in here: I think if you ever get bored of gajin or stupid people, you can always try playing DCS. You can trial any module for free and I think someone who is this good at BVR combat will have a lot of fun in DCS. I recommend the Flaming Cliffs 3 module. They are very simple to learn and are very very capable. They also recently recieved a nice improvement to graphics.
Hundreds of flight hours logged on MiG-21bis module.
As fun as the F-15E is, i prefer cold war stuff so im just waiting on the F-4E and MiG-23ML modules rn
@@DonutWithMustachetry an f14 module. Nowadays it's the best dcs plane (although an f4 should challenge it). F14 can be effectively deployed in almost all dcs servers, from ecw to modern fox3 spamming ones. At the same time, it feels extremely cold war-ish. Clunky controls, old systems which require a lot of work to make them shine, enormous quantities of old-school gauges and switches. It feels like a mig21 on steroids, everything gives the same vibes but there are much more systems to play with and it can challenge modern fighters as well as participate in old-school fox1 missions
The free A-4E Skyhawk module for DCS is good, and goes to show how shit and unrealistically underpowered the Skyhawka are in Worse Torture (aka War Thunder).
War thunder should lock you out top tier planes until you do a mandatory tutorial where you're forced to learn those techniques
i do think ranks should be level based, like straight up just banned out of rank 7 and up if under level 85 or smth
Couple days ago I've returned to the F-4EJ Kai after grinding the entire Japan air tree with the ADTW, and it's been a blast. Even when I only had the 7-Es unlocked, the sparrows still made 80% of my kills amd it was very easy to get 2-3 kills. And after playing France for so long, having a plane with 4 decent radar missiles on top of your ir ones is a dream
It’s the 7Fs and 7Ms that are fucked up
@@RienRocks Yeah and I'm still doing perfectly fine with those too, and I very often get at least 2 kills with them.
@@lucasboulanger5568 Nice. My sparrows miss in perfect headons
@@RienRockswatch the video 💀💀💀
@@RienRocks That's because the Sparrow is so low speed you can dodge it in perfect headon. There's a timing to it, watch Seek's recent radar missile guide.
My advise is you wanna be slightly off-bore to keep the Sparrow turning so it can pre-empt and throw off their timing.
finally someone say something about the 'muhuhuhuhu 102-0 kd ratio' yeah no shit buddy i wonder what the mig29 kd would be if it were to fought brazilian f86
Also soviet fighters were built to be dependent on gci guidance and control, which was at the very best incompetent and lacking in coverage at the third world countries where migs were exported. Soviet pilot instructors in their notes wrote that ever rwrs on the planes were usually broken and sometimes even radios didn't work
Scoreboard commie
I'd love a tutorial on chaff management. I know you only need 1 or 2, but don't know the right timing
Ask anyone except this delusional yes man
The thing that I don’t understand is for people to say broken ass missile in top tier chat but not thinking to themselves maybe I should learn how to defeat it instead. Baffling
the only way to reliably beat an r27er is to just fly below 150m lol which is something most people already do, its not something like "just notch duh!! skell izzue" because the 27er doesnt go stupid and useless immediately after losing lock like every other radar missile and besides this you need a perfect 90 degree angle and spending half of your chaff until the missile passes to defeat if. meanwhile sparrows just require turning 70 degrees and popping chaff 2 times and the missile immediately turns itself off and is unable to be used.
Guy above me is right. You should watch Seek’s video on evading radar missiles. He tried dodging ERs with chaff/notching at BVR and it did absolutely nothing to stop it most of the time.
Exactly, Russian dopplers are so easy to notch when at longer ranges. You have to ignore your RWR to die to a random R-27. And when you go into a furball just stay low.. I almost exclusively get killed by IR missiles.
@@DigitalShaolinvery untrue, i have the Barak 2, F-14B, F-15A and the Flanker and have over a 2.0 KD on all of them. The only time i have gotten killed by some bullshit was when sparrows were fired at me. Sometimes they are the easiest shit to dodge and sometimes they just refuse to get off your ass.
Russian radars arent that good if you notch. Ive beaten countless flankers at BVR combat by just cranking in the F-14B. Or going full perpendicular and then recommitting.
@@niksonrex88 dude your tweaking lol, watch seeks video. this is coming from one of the top war thunder players talking about how it is notching the r27er, if you are losing your bvr fight in the su27 you are simply just bad because there is no circumstance you should lose. also, even if you successfully notched the planes radar, you have to keep notching and continuously chaffing until the missile misses you because unlike any other missile ingame never goes dumb after losing lock, the missile always has the capability to lock on after launching no matter how long it has lost lock for
All I know is my Aim-7M's keep doing a 90 degree turn into the ground even when I have a solid lock.
Edit: I have no idea what notching even means, I just hear people say to do it. I guess it s flying at a 90 degree angle while dropping chaff?
1. You are correct about notching
2. There are several reasons for this aim7 behavior:
2a. All fox1 missiles have their own radar seeker, so if your radar tracks a notching target, it doesn't mean that missile can see it too, usually top tier radars are harder to notch than respective radar missiles
2b. The missile doesn't know which target do you want it to hit. Your radar illuminates some area around the locked target and your sparrow goes to the strongest radar return from that area (meaning one with the highest closure speed). Usually that's your target, but sometimes it's another plane in that illuminated area
2c. Ground multipathing matters not only when your target is at extremely low alt. For example, there's your target 5 NM in front of you at somewhat high altitude, and a mountain peak at 2 NM just below the direct line from your radar to the target. The sparrow you'll launch will get confused by a strong radar return coming from that peak and head straight to the peak. To avoid it, point a sparrow high above this mountain peak before the launch, so it wouldn't have lo fly close to the ground
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я 3. Russian game.
Had 3 sparrows over 4 platforms track this past week. This game is ridiculous.
@@ВячеславФролов-д7я 🤔 The 2c got me thinking
a tutorial on how to defeat and/or use top tier missiles; cranking, notching, good radar use, proper countermeasure use etc. would be a very good. I'm getting to top tier myself after a lot of grinding and I'd rather know whats the proper things to do before I get clubbed and cry on a reddit post
I've been having a ton of troubles with the Sparrows lately, mainly just flying off wherever they want even when a lock is maintained. Rather frustrating, but I've come to expect that.
Can you make a tutorial video on the f-15
my problem with the aim7f is that I will have a stable lock on someone, launch the missile, and then the missile will randomly turn 90 degrees away from the locked target
that is more of a general issue since sometimes radars can kinda get confused since they don't work like human brains with reason and thought, ive had times where i locked onto an ememy and the missile locked onto his teammate below him, wouldn't be surprised if it would do the same with terrain or smth
As a American main (sadly) I liked a lot of your points and fully agree with you. I feel like most people just get upset at how much faster and more maneuverable the er is as a su27 will always win the bvr engagement if the missile isn't notched correctly which I will admit is more challenging with the er than other missiles. As a coping mechanism to try and counter the fact that these players don't want to admit they are using the plane incorrectly they just find something else to pin the blame on. Great video and keep up the good content!
No the problem with R27ER is that none of its real life problems (reliability issues due to shitty soviet electronics, low fidelity tracking means it is vulnerable to chaff and ECM, poor low altitude performance, etc) are modeled, instead gaijin just said “same general type of seeker, same performance”, which is rather bullshit.
To put it Ilin perspective, the minimum engagement altitude for the 27ER IRL is 5000ft (1500m) AGL, while (navalized) sparrows were able to intercept sea skimming missiles 20ft above the wave tops. Now THAT is a difference that should be modeled properly.
The problem is primarily all SARH missiles are having an issue. Even the IR missiles are having trouble getting targets no matter the range.
@@artruisjoew5473 this may be true but they also don't model the near useless seeker on CW sparrows before the M the one that has an 85% fail rate on tracking
@@artruisjoew5473 I checked what its advertised minimum engagement altitude is. its 20m. idfk where you got 1,5km from but can you provide a source?
the problem with R-27 is not only it's maneuvering and chaff ignoring but that it can re-lock on targets instantly multiple times untill they fly by the target and miss while other missiles with re-lock capabilities just do a flip and shit themselves after witnessing a single chaff\enemy turning 30 degrees.
In short; skill issue
I've never had issues with the Sparrows.
We could consider the remote possibility that, in a game notorious for spaghetti code, the “changes that weren’t nerfs”, still managed to break something in the Sparrow’s behavior
I’m sure that player skill has something to do with it, but a ton of people including other RUclipsrs have reported that the sparrow is acting funky
@@donbusu yeah, I don't know what the guy in the video is on about, sparrows are kind of broken right now
After managing to not score a kill on a F-104 that was:
-not using chaff
-not evading
-not flying low
-coming straight at me in a straight line
-getting 4 AIM-7F fired at it
I thoroughly have to question my sanity how this is even possible.
I will upload the video soon.
Heya great video! I managed to reach F-14 in the last anniversary by being a gunslinger with f-5c. The BVR missile is still little confusing, but I say I am doing pretty well with the engagements for my first top tier air. Also, riding f-4j to practice BVR was also good practice for me as well. But, I say you should definitely make a guide on notching. I think you are the first one to present notching without making it too complicated to understand from enemy's perspective (that f-15 was not doing at all). I always cranked with aim-9e so I got that! also, never knew about the missile acceleration on the sparrow too. I knew I had to build up speed for the phoenix . Anyways thanks for a great coverage!
Server side issues? clipping a house 5m above its roof? never! snail hamsters never fail!
I'm relatively new to air battles in war thunder despite having 2 techtrees maxed out, i still can't make it past 1.0KDR because im having a hard time learning every tactics and standards. But i can affirm that Sparrows are as reliable as other counterparts, they are just a bit worse in some very specific statistics compared to R-27ER for example, which connects a bit more consistently. I am trying my best at BVR but still end up doing like 2 kills or something per match so... but yeah sparrows don't have any "issues", they are not bugged nor they are less efficient than other SARH missiles it's simply that people use them as if they were guided by god or something..
Me cheering as soon as I hear meteor
7:00
Well theoretically the lock sensitivity could make sparrows more susceptible to server issues if the sparrows are more sensitive
Also anything that would allow for self requisition (fox 1 and fox 3’s) of an enemy would also not exhibit issues as much as any minor server issues could be self resolved by the missile in flight not requiring player input
The dumbass K:D ratio NCD karmafarming "meme" debunk was what sealed the deal for me. You got yourself a new subscriber.
This addressed exactly 0 of all the clips of sparrows completely spazzing out after launch lol
I'm happy for you you're skilled at the game after thousands of hours, but other than this there's no takeaway on the documented issues
There’s a catastrophic cultural interplay between nafoids and r/warthunder and I seriously doubt it won’t just keep getting worse, free kills tho ig
I can’t imagine the ruski bias shrieks if Gaijin actually started modeling conscan vs inverse monopulse lmao
anyways you earned yourself a sub 07
Ok so the problem is of me not knowing how to actually use flares/chaff properly, having no idea on how the radar works even when I research, not paying attention and getting too focused on one target, and now knowing that I have a big connection to server issue I need to work out.I need to see what I need to do with my internet.
The destruction time of AIM-7M buff after losing lock is not the same as the R-27ER where the ER can still predict the last known flight path of the target where the AIM-7F/M resets its position to 0-0-0 meaning it only flies straight when you lose lock of the target. Which is why we badly needing the AIM-7MH and AIM-7P where it can predict the last known flight path of the target when you lose lock that is the same on the R-27ER, but gaijin says "Nah, we don't want something that can have the same tech as our legendary R-27ER's".
Also remember that the R-27ER's are late 1980's and AIM-7M is early 1970's. Which is why we are needing the later 1980's version of the Sparrows.
This "prediction" is inertial guidance and it is present also on R-24Rs
Not even late 80s, its 90s.
And after 1 year, AMRAAM got deployed too.
shrimply wrong about the 0-0-0 thing, get good
@@Skinny6539the aim7 loses lock and is unable to regain it, you and the guy who made this video are just yapping lmao, the sparrow will not regain lock after 3 seconds of losing signal
@@DigitalShaolin you just said it is unable to regain the lock after its lost, and its unable to regain the lock after 3 seconds in the same sentence.. if anyone’s yappin its you lil bro 💀 🙏
Just revisited top tier with F15 and our experience is strongly different. 3 games, 12 sparrows launched in optimal conditions, only 1 tracked properly xD Vs non manouvering tunel visioned targets, headon, at high alt with strong lock shot within 10km range being higher than a target. Only one from TWELVE hit. Rest didn't even flew in right direction :D
I think just from my experience. The major problem is not the pull or the speed or the range. But the fact that half the time when I started the sparrow, it would just stop trying to lock like I never tried to spool it up. In comparison for me the R-27ER would 99% always spool up properly. And it failing is why in head ons people with sparrows end up locking you long before launching.
Do you use fire missile key to spool up or lock missile key?
Using either is sometimes unreliable due to server issue and is recommended to have both binded in the case of failure
This only happens when you try to warm up the missile with the missile launching keybind.
I've had that happening on all missiles when using the same key to fire and spool it up, both ir and radar guided, NATO or Redfor, it's a common problem for every jet
This happens when you try to launch missile that has not finished spooling so it resets timer, or sometimes it just spools abnormally long and i have no idea why. Happens on every missile, frustrating af.
I watched this video first about at the time it came out.
I did not comment back then (I think, or rather I hope) because at the time, the only experience with radar missiles I had, were french and soviet types.
However, now that I am grinding the US and have flown my F-4J for a while, here are my thoughts:
It is entirely possible that this is recency bias, but I do not recall the 530D or R27 really just chasing something entirely unaffiliated with the battle or nosediving for no discernable reason.
So, I am definitely in the camp of "there is something wrong with the sparrow" for now, but not because of the reasons that others have given and rather because there is a separate group on reddit, which is pretty much the complete opposite of the ones you mention in your video:
You can show them that you have a solid radar lock on an enemy, but the sparrow goes 50° off bore and instead TKs someone.
Obviously, unlocking could have prevented this, but when people then spew bullshit like "those are sidelobes, totally normal behavior of your radar" it gets me a little angry, because that is not how sidelobes work.
So, what is my conclusion? Mainly that, after grinding my way up a third time now and really no longer being used to capable radar missiles, I need to up my game because I have a lot of embarassing deaths to R-24Rs and other sparrows and I need to work on that.
I played the f14a back on release and i loved the 6 sparrow combo. But in my opinion the reason why sparrows seem bad now is that people are more educated on how to defeat them. Before on F14A release, no one knew how to dodge them. I believe its a shift in the meta. Also Im only 6.23 into the vid I hope you didnt go over this :D
From my experience sparrow is still a very deadly missile at br 12.0 and below. Planes there don't have complex rwrs and their countermeasures count is usually limited. I enjoy playing f14a with 6 sparrows even though I have unlocked f15 and su27 and from my experience sparrow is the best missile at that br
Your point on amerimains stands,
But the reported problem was that aim7M would literally go straight for ground off the rail.
I got into my f16adf, launched at a easy kill, went straight down. Took my f15, same problem.
F14a, no problems at all with the F or E.
I've had this issue with my 24r's and 27er's too its so cancer watching my missile eat dirt instant esp when I only have 2 ;-;
Props for using the F-14 soundtrack ^^
Something to be said for the ER's too, which are Extended Range not 2x Speed, which Gaijin messed up and clearly won't fix.
ER does not stand for Extended Range. Remember, its a russian designation, not english. In russian its P-27ЭP.
The P, translating to R in english, is "Radar". Same as on the R-27R, R-24R, etc.
The Э's closest translation in english is E, standing for "Energovo-oroozhonaya" in russian, or "High-powered".
The R-27ER is a "high powered" version of the R-27R per its designation, not just an "Extended Range" version.
And yeah, Meteor's soundtracks are incredible. Cant wait for the F-4E one soon so i can start using it in my videos.
@@DonutWithMustache True all of what you say there, but, to pull a Lee: Technically ( 😁) I didn't say it stood for Extended Range, but the ER's primary advantage over the R is indeed Extended Range, regardless the chief intention behind it's design & designation 😊
High powered is all good and nice, but according to Su-27 Flight Manual booklet-1. 2001. p. 129:
R27ER: 2-65.5 km (1.2-40.7 mi) head-on, 0.7-16.5 km (0.43-10.25 mi) tail-on Maximum range: 117 km (73 mi).
Vs
R27R: 2-42.5 km (1.2-26.4 mi) head-on, 0.7-7.5 km (0.43-4.66 mi) tail-on. Maximum range: 73 km (45 mi).
That's an almost insane 60%'ish/30mi increase in range over the R.
I'm not disputing the R27ER being faster than the Aim 7, but the game's R27ER is apparently "5.8 M" which is Mach 1.4 faster than what even Wikipedia entry speculates, an argument could be made they took the HIGHEST speculative number available just to give Russian radar missiles an edge.
It's kinda hard to achieve range improvements that notable by going full blast on both stages at the same time (speed loss when engine is outta fuel, not to mention physical constraints worthy of some worry, such as firing the 2nd stage while the 1st is still attached...).
So specifically, what do you mean "Not just extended range" and "high powered"?
Even if we discarded the above, said source also states:
"Missile cannot be fired at altitude less than 3 km (1.9 mi) against a target with background earth, if launch range is less than 6 km (3.7 mi). Maximum range: 117 km (73 mi). Maximum allowed vertical separation: 12 km (7.5 mi)."
And yet how often haven't we all seen Su-27 and indeed Yak-141 & MiG-29 launched R27ER's easily connect while being well within said altitude and background parameters that according to the manual states would usually cause a clear miss?
In fact I believe I can safely make the claim that namely all that is being constantly done successfully on the regular.
Again not dunking on you or anything, but as far as the Redditor's you're poking fun at, which btw 1) They didn't even bother to google, and 2) I'm not on Reddit (I hope it disappears), while 3) Being factually wrong so it's their bad and is grounds to get destroyed on RUclips video, might not (key words here) be as completely outta ballpark as you're seemingly (also keyword) letting on.
Also, I realize you had to play a bit to get good footage so not to clunk your efforts in any way, but you claim F-15 players are not smart. And indeed, from what I'm seeing in your footage you're getting easy mode left, right and center.
So if you want a challenge try EU servers at late night for GMT +1 'ish vs true sweats with somewhat more intelligence (not that I ever made the claim) and you'll see F-15's aren't entirely the "muh 100:1" free kills as you show.
Anyway, enough rambling from me.
Also looking forward to the F-4E, it's gonna be rad 👍
Sry for wasting your time, see you on the flight line! 🙏
Womp Womp
@ToreDL87 statcard 5.8M is bullshit and even at optimal (damn high) altitude by the end of booster phase ER can't reach this speed. Just in general take everything on the WT statcards with a grain of salt, they are often questionable lol
As for the "can't engage targets below 3km" it's not as clear as it says, it applies to all SAHR and basically means when both launching aircraft and target are below 3k the radar interference is large enough to potentially disrupt tracking. It doesn't apply when shooting at high targets or low targets from high altitude not to mention in general there are a lot of variables (for ex. what is target background? )
@@m1sz3lpl24 Yo! Yeah that's all fair points 100%👍
On the subject of B$ though, important to note and make clear the fact that while quoting Gaijin's 5.8M number, that's not to mean I'm saying the in-game R27ER and it's export variants reached 5.8M in a couple seconds within current in-game parameters.
But it do be a fast telephone pole alright👌
As for the speed itself, yeah valid point and like I said they probably took the highest possible number from somewhere.
Probably Gaijin tested at MUCH higher altitude than what constitutes the norm in the current meta (20000 meters or thereabouts).
Clearly I never stated most launched R27ER's in the game goes Mach 5.8, as for what speed it reaches in current meta I don't know, but it's clearly enough to be wildly superior in current meta.
"Current meta" being keywords I say often here, though not to annoy you or anything, but because simply put, current meta is always in a state of flux, as a matter of course.
And with the introduction of dynamic BR ratings, it will be even more so.
The in-game R27ER accelerates and goes way faster, and keeps it's faster speed for longer, and outmaneuvers it's counterpart, the Aim 7 in most if not all launch conditions in the current meta.
Heck I've had multiple CC's and multiple of their affiliates & squadron mates, all with great stats in other top tier jets, telling me straight out that as fun as it can be to challenge or use a cracked radar missile, it's downright criminal how it hasn't been adjusted not just given what little is known about it, but also in the name of fair play.
You can 1) Be way slower than your opponent, wait until he launches Aim 7F/M at you before you fire R-27ER, and your R-27ER still connects way before. Done deal there, as most can agree.
And 2) Given a bit of speed, you can literally Matrix dodge the Aim 7F/M, as illustrated and substantiated in Seek's "How To EVADE Radar Missiles | War Thunder" video.
Of course if it were just 1 of the above, that'd be a different story and maybe Reddit wouldn't be exploding like it is or whatever the story is over there.
As for what target background, again, valid point, so let's look back at what's stated:
"Missile cannot be fired at altitude less than 3 km (1.9 mi) against a target with background earth, if launch range is less than 6 km (3.7 mi)"
"background earth" And no offense but it doesn't get any clearer, there's the parameter, background earth, i.e LOWER than the Su-27 or pressed up against a mountain.
And again, haven't we all hugged the ground or a mountain vs a Su-27/MiG-29/Yak-141 less than 6km out and 1.5-3km off the ground while we're WAY down counting flower petals, and the sodded thing still connects to our face? 🙂
I've been grinding 4 top tier aircraft and unlocked 3 of them (incl the corresponding assortment of aircraft in lower BR) within 12 days, so while not the best player (nor have I ever claimed I was or am) I've at least been online for a bit in the current top tier meta.
I've either seen or done a lot of launches at those parameters, and seen them connect clean.
Now, I've been getting enough (valid, mind you) feedback here, so to make it clear: I'm not saying those desperate lower altitude R27-ER launches ALWAYS connects on planes all but growing on the ground.
But it does(!!) happen a lot.
I'd be pretty much well within my rights to claim all that probably happened to Donut while he was making footage for this video too, rest assured he would have interjected right about when I said it the first time around.
He didn't, and that, could be argued is telltale that I'm at least somewhere within earshot of ballpark'ish.
In my current opinion, in those launch parameters, the R27ER is both too slow and heavy (still on first stage and so will not have burned as much of it's fuel, thus, heavier, slower, not as maneuverable) to connect as much as it does.
Worryingly more so in fact, that, in my opinion, it warrants a few small adjustments to acceleration and maneuverability.
Mind you, not be confused with me saying it's top speed has to be nerfed. But nowhere (that I'm currently aware) has the subject of the R27ER's acceleration and maneuverability been brought up in any capacity to speak of.
So I'm saying it's acceleration and maneuverability might do with getting dialed down a bit given the current meta.
Anyway, in the words of Reagan, there I go again.
Sorry if anything I've said rubs off on you the wrong way.
Assuming you have no issues with current missile performances, rest assured I'm not here to take away from that.
Plus, none of what I say here is ever taken close at heart by anyone at Gaijin anyway 😅
I came here chiefly just because I wanted to interact with Donut & his community, give him a like & comment because I like the content ☺
I'm happy to say both have exerted top notch responses 😁
If'n I wasted your time and you don't reply I wish many more successful Aim 7 engagements go your way (yes they DO happen) and see you on the flight line 🙏
I had a vacant thought I was killing F-15s too easily in the MiG-23ML.
530D hate? I always considered it a sidegrade to the sparrow considering the acceleration and G-limit.
same here, cuz I also got a decent amount of kills in cases, where the Sparrow couldn't.
don't know why the hate, constantly seeing magic's hit anything you wish to unlike sparrows.
my sparrows are just flying right up and blows up 50% of the time
50%?????? What are you doing?
honestly my r27s hit every time i have a good lock and sometimes my sparrows forget they theyre meant to be missiles
People do forget that this is a game and Gaijin has to balance things out. The game is Semi-historically accurate at best.
Also, AIM-7 isn't exactly the best missile historically speaking.
Rarely have issues with my AIM-7F's
US mains can stay coping
damn you ppl are cancer. The AIM-7s work as intended but they dont compete with the R-27 which is the issue. Also why irl the Us rarely uses them over Aim-120s if ever. Plus most ppl refer to Aim-7s just going off on their own even in optimal launch conditions.
and before you use the excuse of "skill issue" I actually have a 60%+ win rate in the thing with a decently high k/d
Luckiest sparrow user*
AIM-7F's are very good , they just yap.
@@Ambush_yt yeh very good at 11.0 but bring them against an R-27 or planes at low alt and you’re better if just bringing extra aim-9s
@@F-18Super the normal R-27R Is shit , I'm a Russian main and i know how bad that shit is , the R-24 is way better , the only good missiles Russia have is the R-27ER , R-27ET and R-24R
This video shows perfectly what's wrong with the top tier (I'm not a good player myself but doing Japanese and Russian trees for F15j and Mig 23s I learned something) the US players often are keyboard-clicking monkeys and sometimes they'll get something right but too often being the only Japanese F15 or F16 on the US team I knew it would be a loss.
I do not want to offend anyone because I know very well that everyone has their own problems I myself am a wallet warrior but still my 1st top tier premium was bought after i had jets with missiles
OK here is my several paragraphs as requested, admittedly bit longer that I intended but I wanna get my thoughts and experience down, this is kinda just thrown down with no real structure sooo I’m gonna ramble.
One thing this video didn't address that I was hoping it would is that clip of the AIM-7 nose diving into the dirt immediately after launch, I'm not some level 12 base bomber, I've been using the AIM-7's almost as long as they have been in the game and this issue is very new, my missile sometimes pull max G in a random direction (Aim-9's sometimes included in that but hard to tell coz it's the 9M) with no noticeable reason why or the other times it will work perfectly and miss the target because... reasons. The target is flying in a straight line, no countermeasures, at 5-7km's not notching or not flying close to the ground (whatever that is called) where RADAR's all go fucky wucky, a trick I use all the time but despot having the perfect shot the missile misses at the last second or if it doesn't someone with an R-27ER behind me who launched the missile after me kills the oblivious prick because his missile is faster
Other issues I more commonly find in the F-16C (with the HMD) is why I would be included in the "Noob US player not defending flying in a straight line" because I'm trying to figure out what the fuck my RADAR is doing, the ACM mode will lock onto everything that isn't the enemy (mostly another missile) and TWS does... things. Resulting in me dying because I'm paying attention to that for 2-3 seconds which is a long time to not be paying attention.
99% of my deaths are to Friendly fire, an enemy I didn't see (because you can't look every direction all the time while flying at 1500km/h between trees’ and the spotting system is a bit shit at this tier) or because most planes are sluggish at supersonic speeds and can’t get close to the ground fast enough to use that trick when an R-27ER is launched at me at close range… but I can do it against AIM-7’s and R-530D’s… so yes the R-27ER is objectively better in every meaningful way than the AIM-7, Shut up (not saying we need the AIM-120, no we DO NOT NEED THAT, all people who say that are fucking idiots)
Though one thing I have noticed is my missiles don't fail when I attack players away from the main fur-ball but in the chaos they do. If I catch a player out in the flanks, as one of the last few or in a custom match to test it, I can get it to work but the instant I'm around most of the enemy’s team, things just stop working. But if I only target stragglers I either get no kills or stuck in a 10 V 1, no thank you.
While I don't have any top MiG’s, yet I do have the MiG-23 MLA and have use it... a lot, and I’ve had none of these issues, I fly both planes the exact same way and the 16 suffers but the MiG doesn’t (maybe bullying F-4S’s during an event would cause the... not sure). The R-24's most likely reason to miss was either target flew at tree top level, or they died to something else (which is fair and part of the game). Though I will have the MiG-29G soon (when the 30% sale drops), so I can test that... once I suffer the stock grind.
I was hoping this video would be a helpful guide to adjust my play style to a new mechanic, but Donut essentially just said “it’s a skill issue” and doesn’t even address the clip he showed of the AIM-7 nose diving after launch. I thought he was going to say something along the lines of “the AIM-7 doesn’t work at low altitude because something something ground BS and they work better at higher altitudes.” But on that, every time I climb I get swatted by an R-27ER using the lock-on-after-launch thing, so never knew it was coming. But the fly low theory I had falls apart when I remember the R-24 works perfectly fine close to the ground. Though I can say with confidence I never die to an F-16’s AIM-7’s, I do to F-15’s and even thinking about it I don’t die to Gripens or Mirages SARHM’s either, so I’m not just another shit US premium bomber player. Just saying “Get Good” doesn’t help solve anything except A-10’s dying to MiG-19’s.
My issues in the F-16C are my missiles have ADHD, my RADAR locking onto everything but the enemy and the R-27ER (and ET to an extent) is too good. Also, not enough countermeasures (if I run mixed, I run out to quickly). I Haven’t played the F-15 since patch day, purely because I want to save it’s RP bonuses for the next top fighter (I have every US plane) and most of its success was from bullying little Timmy and his GE Su-27, so not much to draw on (though the stock grind was painful a usual). And the F-14 is too slow for my liking, hence why I only play the F-16C at top tier US.
Though on a kinda related note, for the memes and the pure chaotic bullshit it would unleash on the game would be only planes marked as "Bomber" can bomb bases, just to watch people who bomb with F-4S's and F-20's panic as they have no clue what the fuck to do. And just for the fun of it, the ground units don't spawn in for the first 10 minutes... because everything is a fighter if you try hard enough (I have a reputation for using 4 engine bombers as gunships... coz fuck it). Air RB is team death match and I want a team I can at least rely on to attempt to fight the enemy and not a building.
And make the Ju-288 a Strike Aircraft and move it to 7.0, coz suffer bitch. You ruined 6.0
I literally wrote a 1000+ word essay on this... god I'm... fucking stupid... I hope this is some what coherent
i aint reading allat
@@henryz7158 the TLDR is he spent 20 ish minutes to say "it's a skill issue"
fun fact, i was the f16c that posted that clip in the video to Reddit, but for some reason the title was different, but the name and f16c decals are 100% mine, i have 1000s of clips of 7ms going completely dumb with optimal lock conditions, while at this time the aim7F worked like a charm, the 7m now works perfectly fine though
@@Thunderbox247 exactly, he actually went into one of the reddit comment sections of a post that was made about the video, and got cooked, rightfully so for just making a video saying "U.S. players just shit"
@@marshall-yo5ho since seeing this video I have been trying to find put why the 7M sucks, the R-27R will do it to BUT the ER won't. Still wanna do further testing to see I am correct or just a coincidence
Saying this after the Seek & Destroy update; I still have my F-4S AIM-7Fs occasionally going in the opposite direction of a target I lock.
I observed that happening in a test flight of the F-4S.
Something tells me Russian Bias.
The real reason people are upset about the Sparrow missile is that they just don't work like they did around two years ago. The Sparrow missiles have been in a bad spot for a while, but it was only when the F-15 came out that many players finally recognized that something had changed. There are many reasons, but the primary one is the R-27ER. That missile outclasses the Sparrow in every category so the Sparrow can't win in a fair fight. This helped drive the meta to be dominated by nimble light fighters, and the US, Japan, and Israel all had great F-16s so those players just stopped using planes that relied on Sparrows. The transition to the F-15 was extremely rough and most players did poorly in the F-15. Another issue is that players are much more knowledgeable on how missiles work so they are better able to defeat them. This has made it harder to kill people with the missile. The missile also just became funky a year ago where it just stopped making hits it used to be able to do.
The Sparrow missile can still do extremely well, but it has a much tighter window of effectiveness. If you haven't played the Sparrow in over a year, you pretty much have to learn a new weapon.
7:01 that f16 for sure saw his great grandma flashing in front of his eyes with that sparrow right behind his ass
After playing DCS I am so positively surprised that the Sparrow doesn't just give up all tracking capabilities at 5km. I do think that the F-4EJ with the AIM-7E is a genuinely ass weapons platform, but through no fault of the missile.
9:17
THAT KILL WAS INSANE!!!
I always wondered why IR missile seekers could lock out to like 11 miles, THAT WAS GENIUS!
Imagine the kid on the tricycle from the Incredibles...
THAT WAS TOTALLY WICKED!!!
That was my reaction once I figured out what you did about 2 seconds after launch.
Wait what?
"Forcing BVR engagements"
Cuts to montage of kills below 10km.
Oh boy this is off to a good start.
5:31, any other questions?
@@DonutWithMustache Ah yes. That one clip in this video surely negates all complaints. It definitely wasn't just you cherry-picking the one time it actually worked as advertised.
The sparrow certainly never wobbles around in flight or goes off on its own after being fired despite a solid lock and optimal launch conditions.
@@clivedoe9674 Exactly.
You are absolutely correct, Sparrows truly aren't R27-ERs, but every time these players that complain are 1 month old toptier players, not knowing what to do.
I’m just curious, where’s your footage of your sparrows when they miss? Did you seriously go 2 whole weeks without any incident where your sparrows went wild?? Or is this just your opportunity to be a jerk towards US mains?
I’ll admit that a lot of players, regardless of nation, don’t know what they’re doing… but I do know what I’m doing. I usually do quite well, however, I have had sparrows go wild several times.
I’ve had them nose dive for no reason, I’ve had them pass right by an enemy and not detonate. There is something up with the Sparrows, or atleast was during the timeframe I was using them.
I also noticed you didn’t use your Su-27 to its full potential, to show how significantly more powerful it is than the F-15.
Comical attempt at being “logical”, drenched in derision towards US players.
> sparrow missing
Yeah so have you even watched the video? I admitted the sparrows missed a few times, but not only was it very little (less than 5% of launches), but it also happened to other missiles (R-27ER and 530D)
@@DonutWithMustache You're not gonna convince him of jack, he doesn't care about anything you have to say he thinks you've attacked his video game faction and wants to discredit you.
@rogeryoung9934 It's the latter. lol
So me firing a sparrow at a perfect target and the missiles goes to the opposite side of the map and tks is a skill issue is what I’m being told
yep, this video is just USSR main bullshit, you may ignore since F-15A really was underpowered before the ARH deployed.
‘R-27ER superiority’ was the worst nightmare of top-tier jet balance, even was harder than ‘danger zone’ update.
@@Takamiya_Mio usa mains coping:
what if my sparrow after launch go 90 degree up in the sky and doesn't even track
that literally happens to almost every missile , even my ER' sometimes do that. that's literally just on the servers.
^ What he said. What makes the R27 a lot more bearable is datalink, which lets it reacquire targets after losing signal. Something the Aim-7M lacks
that happend to my R27ER recently i lock someone throw it but the missile go to different direction probably because my Internet issue tho.
@@Ambush_yt I have 250 matches in 23ML and my R-24R never do this. Maybe a dozen times. Meanwhile every second sparrow goes crazy.
@@makarevych its mostly ping related and not missile related
i watched the whole video, and i have not disagreed to even SINGLE point/sentance you made
as a french OTP, this is truly one of the videos of all the time.
As a US main I don't know how I should feel. Part of me feels insulted by the fact Donut just keeps insulting every US player, and the other part completely agrees with him. Would I be considered a US noob since I got to top tier with the A10 premium when the F14A just came out? Never really bombed bases much but I did use the AIM9L so it took me some time getting used to the lower pulling rear aspect missiles. And a hot minute learning to not spam flares in an aircraft with only a few. But I did my time with the F4J and F8E and eventually the F14A. And I have just recently finished researching all the US planes and getting starting on Israel. Maybe I'm just getting pressed for feeling like I'm being attacked even though I'm not :/
There are times when the AIM 7 is great and there are times when they fail to track and just today for some reason my f15 radar keeps losing lock on planes flying towards me every single time I try to lock them up like the same bug that pretty much everyone experienced in the test server when the f15, su 27, and gripen were said to come out.
Edit: nearly forgot I experienced the same thing while playing the mig 29 for a short bit, so it maybe the return of that specific bug, but I haven't seen any recent posts about this yet
I haven't played in a while and I came to this video wondering "what did gaijin do to the sparrows? They were fine when I left?" I'm relieved that everything is fine
Can't believe they're complaining about sparrows. I've been playing top tier for 2 weeks and never got killed by R-27. Instead, i ALWAYS get killed by a random Sparrow, even notching, chaffing and jinking can't trash the missile, and yet they still complain?
I think the main issue with sparrows that makes their problems so noticeable is just how good the r74 is that thing is nuts especially when used with the helmet mounted thingy also while I do think the sparrow is good they always seem inconsistent at the worst times possible on like rear aspect stuff or even easy head ons
Idk I've kinda stopped playing anything above 10.7 to 11.0 anything above that is to much of "hey have you played ace combat yeah well check this out"
Hear me out ive got 1000 hours I know how to use my radars and it's just kinda inexplicable how the aim 7 sometimes shits the bed
Anyways for those of you struggling in general focus on learning energy management and defensive flying first then aiming and bvr I say this because those first two things will keep you alive while the second will let you get kills and be aware always be looking up and around you even in fights you need to have good situational awareness of not just yourself but everything going on around you
Us mains always cry its a fact of life at this point
I had a whole essay typed up and ready to send but then I realized its mostly just a bunch of yappin so all I got to say is
AMERICA RAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!
it has been 1 month, I've just watched my 8th or so r24r not go for a clearly painted enemy and instead kill my teammate even after I noticed and took off the lock. truly a us main skill issue and defiantly not at all in any way a bug.
This video feels like calling the problem "skill issue, git gud america" and skips over actual random and strange sparrow behavior outside of launching under bad parameters. You never talk about experiencing erratic missile behavior like point a missile head on onto an enemy and watching it travel 90 degrees horizontally across the screen.
Issue is, that happens with my R-23, 24 and 27s quite a lot too, radar itself isn't very reliable in this game
But happens to the r27 also, so it’s not an excluded case with only the sparrow
I mean it happens but it’s rare at least for me, it’s most likely a server issue
That happens to R-27ERs all the time. You just don't see other players bitch about it like it's the end of the world.
Exactly.
I have took the F-4S into a test flight, get a good clean lock against the MIG-15... and launch the Sparrow, only to see it go in the opposite direction of the slow moving, easy target that is the MIG-15 not pulling any evasive maneuvers or anything.
Solid take but tbf at 13:30 I feel like the 27er just out accelerates the sparrow even if he cranks. Generally isn’t it better to just not take the joust with 27er?
Edit: Also most players are us mains in air rb so it makes sense the most complaints we hear about missiles going stupid would be from us mains, biasing the data towards the sparrow being bad! When in actuality it’s the second best radar missile lmao.
The reddit is prob the worst part of the community. if you don't go by their exact echo chamber schizo rants then you are wrong. cas=bad, naval is cringe, and air is unbalanced or unfair without any reasoning. Seriously they make the forums look friendly and welcoming in comparison.
you forget the nationalist kooks on Reddit too
@@notafrog2040 TRUUUUUEEE
I was a fairly new player to top-tier as I bought the f4s only having grinded to 10.0 in russian tree but I had no problem using sparrows and honestly in my opinion I think they are one of the most reliable and one of the better missles in the game I rarely have one miss and if I do it's because I lost track on someone doing proper evasive maneuvers (chaffing and notching) it's not difficult to use a sparrow they are proably the most user friendly missles ever all you got to do is watch one youtube video or just test fly a plane with sparrows and you will pretty quickly get the hang of them I got 2 kills my very first match in the f4s with sparrows also being my first top tier game ever it's not hard just stop turning off your brains guys
Exellent video and i agree pretty much 100%
I think its also very much a case of confirmation bias.
The top tier American players complaining about how broken the ER is and how bad the sparrows are only ever see the ER that kills them, not the ones that miss or get easily notched.
People cry about the ER while flying full speed into aircraft that have it and not taking preemptive measures
@@williewilson2250say it to its DL capability.
I played both of them, and Flanker is the most OP since 'Danger Zone' update.
Defensive maneuvers might extend your life but don't give any chance to flankers.
F-15 and Su-27 should have gap within its BR, and its just Mirage 4000 should go 12.3 again.
But, yes. It's also still in compression, so best scenario would be 13.0 flanker & gripens and 12.7 eagles.
@@Takamiya_Mio key word "preemptive"
Aim-7c though is really drunk, kind of 9b of radar missiles, but it might do some fun things
Ah, good ol top tier american players
Useless in ground AND in top tier air
Amazing aint it?
in ground at least it can be excused because most of the team is KVT and M1 Clickbait premium wallet warriors.
In air, especially since the 12.7 change, the US teams can be 100% tech tree vehicles and still throw the game.
Sparrows are 100% broken but just randomly I genuinely watched it actively home I fired on a 29i died but a whole 5 seconds later it killed him when turning
People complaining the most about the AIM7Ms are the same people who got the F-15 to a 38% win rate
Facts my brotha. Spit your shit indeed
FR though, the cope is real. Haven't seen this level of copium since I last visited the local Vatnik sanctuary
How have I not seen you before, this is such a high quality video, when I first watched I thought u were some massive youtuber that I just haven't seen before. Keep up the good work, hope you get a gaijin partnership at some point.
Edit: a tutorial on chaff and chaffing while doing cas would be nice
Thank you GOD for being a voice of intelligence here. I have a few friends who basically went down the conspiracy rabbit hole. One of them even said pretty much "I know I'm right because so many people on the forums and reddit agree with me. And there are thousands of documented examples of Aim-7's failing. Gaijin hates US tech!" (I am not exaggerating this. He even went further). I asked for proof and he basically told me to go do my own research instead of providing one (He either has no source or is just that far up his own ass). I think people tend to forget that just because allot of people scream something is wrong, that does not actually mean there is a problem... Confirmation bias is a bitch sometimes...
The aim7fs are worse than the r27er by a wide ass margin lmao. idk what y’all gripen and su27 mains are smoking
Firstly, I'm not a main of any nation. I play a variety of nations both air and ground. I also tend to prefer NATO vehicles. So suck it there.
Secondly, The comment was never about which missile is better. Your brain is reading what it wants to read. It was, in the context of the video, about how people say the missile itself is bugged, or has been shadow-nerfed, etc. when there is no evidence of that which I have ever been shown. I see these failures with every missile eventually.
Third, to humor you. Yes, the Aim-7F/M is worse than the R-27ER. Who could have guessed the missile like 10+ years newer with an enhanced motor segment would be better. But aside from that, the Aim-7F/M is underperforming a bit from where it should. But even if the missile was accurate, it wouldn't be an equal to the ER. Not that it matters much since Aim-120 and R-77 are not very far away. And those missiles very much ARE more or less equals.
@@Registered_Simp yes, the problem is with having a missile 10+ years newer that literally does everything better than any other radar missile at its tier by a wide ass margin while having missiles like the aim54 phoenix not get their realistic features and the f15a msip we have ingame not even having the right radar. I’m making the point that the problem with the sparrows isn’t some “git gud skill issue” as this video makes it out to be. the missile is just bad along with every other sarh ingame compared to the r27er. also its not like gaijin never nerfed the sparrow unrealistically, for example the missile detonating after losing lock and them making the fins reset to 0 despite the missile having a autopilot irl. In addition to this the top speed ingame of the r27er is Mach 5.8, in real life it’s 4.5. My point is the the r27er is a broken missile, it should’ve never been on the su27.
@@DigitalShaolin Yes, the ER is strong. Yes, it is the best Fox-1 in the game. That much can't be denied. And no, that stat card value is BS. ER does not get past mach 4.5 in most cases. outside of high speed, high altitude. What I'm saying is that yes, there is a large degree of "Skill Issue" in this. Cause many people just can't defend them properly when they are perfectly defendable. In a clean, even situation, yes, the Aim-7 user will be at a disadvantage. But many scenarios are NOT clean an even. That's what I'm getting at with the "Skill Issue" part since allot of US players specifically, even when they are in an advantageous position, will completely fuck it when their hand isn't being held
@@Registered_Simp to actually be in an advantageous position against the r27er it would take a very serious fuckup of the su27 user. you can’t just excuse some broken addition by saying that technically if the person using the busted missile is brain dead and your defyn you can kill them with sparrows. because a good f4e pilot can kill a gripen if the gripen pilot is lobotomized. If it requires a very serious skill issue with the su27 pilot for them to lose, sure us teams are stupid… but having a missile that constantly puts you in a disadvantageous position from the start and having less of them certainly doesn’t help, because it’s not like if the two pilots are equal skill or if the su27 pilot is anything but brain dead, it doesn’t matter what happens; any other plane will lose a sarh engagement
Hey Donut, ran into you in a game a few weeks back!
Also, fantastic vid highlighting a lot of very true things
Man this vid was dissapointing. Thought i was finally gonna learn why my r24rs and aim7ms were managing to miss targets flying in a straight line at 1km alt literally ignoreing the launch. Nope, just a classic "skill issue" ignore the actual issues with sparrows.
Cope
@@wulf4785 that's sad bro.
Classic War Thunder community toxicity. It's just one of many reasons I hate this game.
halfway through the video and donut is blasting people with words and not sparrows
8:37 idk why but when I play F5E I have like 5 kills per game and when I go with my F16 i get killed without getting a kill, that's what u call skill issue
You took 17 minutes to say "git gud" and I am all here for it.
Being both a China main (J-11 and JH-7A for Ground RB) and a USA Main in air and ground RB I will say the difference in the air seems so off. Talking about air RB; I drop consistent 2-5 kill games in the J-11 (it's incredibly fun and op) but in the F-15A and F-16's (A, ADF and C) I cannot get AIM-7 kills for the life of me. They almost always seem to veer way off, basically pull a 90 degree or more turn within a couple seconds of being launched and either fly off and self-detonate or hit the ground if I'm low enough. I've yet to actually get a kill today after over 2 hrs of gameplay. Not too sure where my skill issue is there, but I really don't understand the inconsistencies between the Su-27's/J-11's radar guided missiles and the AIM-7s. They really should be on-par with eachother for balancing reasons but those R-27ER1's absolutely destroy in my hands but I'm a complete potato with the AIM-7Ms. All that said, the AIM-9Ms make up for it a bit and let the US still have some fun, but with how inconsistent the 7M's are I just wish I could carry more than 6 9Ms.
The R-27ER is far better than the AIM-7M/F ingame, there is no denying that.
But just because the AIM-7M/F are not the best, doesn't mean they are bad. They are still the second best radar missiles at top tier, considering far worse missiles like the Skyflash and Super 530F exist on a handful of top tier jets for some reason.
The doppler rates on the R-27ER are far high than those of the AIM-7M/F, meaning that a ER is more likely to track a cold target than a AIM-7M/F, not to mention the ER's datalink; it basically lets the ER be far more forgiving. You can pull off some launches with the ER that a Sparrow will simply not track and veer off into nowhere. Once again, this can be easily fixed by simply learning the limits of the sparrow and using it correctly.
Sometimes, My AIM-7M turns into a makeshift AIM-120.
i cant agree more to say sparrows are like a 50/50, they either do imposible kills, or fly straight to the ground or to space the moment i fire them even at high altitudes
those f15 afterburner textures look amazing
been playing Italian F-16 ADF for a while and love the AIM-7M, get confuse by bunch of people complaining about it. if the country player base had smaller skill level gaijin should know it but they stay at "statistic" rather than reality.
Looking forward to seeing a guide on cranking, notching and all things bvr from you.
I'd also like to point out, on the clip guy yeeted the missle into the ground. I always launch it with a barrel roll to avoid this.
Gaijin be using servers capable of a early 2000 online games for War Thunder today fr
My Sparrow experience goes like this: Completely ignores enemy evasive maneuvers, chaff and will just have its own radar to guide with because my lock is focused on a cloud of chaff, or it will launch from the rail and immediately nose dive into dirt when aiming at co-level/climbing targets.
As someone who caved into my friends and bought the old event Tornado for the Germans (it dipped below 50 gaijin coin, and I don’t regret a thing) I’d love to see a guide on how I can more effectively avoid radar missiles, considering how many times I’ve been obliterated by Strelas in GRB already
Strela is ir missle. And its absolutely bonkers. It dosent care about range or flares or evasive manouvers. If you get locked 90% of time you die thats it. Just fly rly low so they cant see you at all from trees or whatever and you should be fine bcs it dosent have any radar at all.
@@vukasinrebic1707 yeah that’s what I try but then I usually get picked off by either a Pantsir or a 2S6
And this video shows the reason, why i always say that i am a Goodish pilot.
I can hold my self in a Dogfight, but when it comes to BVR? Yea im a bit of a lost cause there… but atleast i am trying to evade incoming missiles?
Idk I've had a few aim 7f fly right over the target after launching in between 10km-5km but I've had some insane launchs land (launch as I was dodging or fast shot while chasing and it went for a different player)