So many people fall into the trap of automatically thinking lighter or "family" games are automatically bad. It's the worse thing about this hobby. People will see a game on the shelf at Target and automatically assume it's not good because it isn't a heavy mini filled kickstarter.
Yup. I’m shocked that the others think El Dorado is much heavier. I have frequently played El Dorado with 5 year olds! It’s a fantastic family game that is accessible to pre-readers as well as being fun for adults. The ability to play different maps makes it easy to adjust El Dorado’s difficulty. Summer Camp’s cards have a lot of text; I can’t see this being playable for most 5-6 year olds.
@@ginsbu I think Tom and Zee (maybe Zee a little more so) either underestimate people ability to learn a game or over overestimate the complexity of games. I'm assuming it's from their own experiences so I can't fault them for that, but in my experience you can get people to play and do well at some really complicated games as long as they are motivated to learn.
@@ginsbu I agree that El Dorado can certainly be a kid friendly game that scales well over time as they grow up. That was my family's experience with it. You could easily setup a small map of El Dorado with just a few easy tiles and just the initial offering of cards to purchase and play it with very young children. The iconography makes reading optional.
There’s a great example of why foursquare reviews are so good. I know normally the person who likes the game the most reviews it. To show this game ranges from 7 to 9 for all of you really makes it a nice well Rounded review. Thank you for doing these.
When I want to play a game with someone who doesn't play games I do try to minimize the complexity, but I do want them to have fun interesting decisions. If not, you may not get the "what else is there" that Tom alluded to. Tom's comment also makes me believe that no one will want to play it again after the first play. Also Mike is absolutely on point with The Quest for El Dorado.
This was such a great review. I managed to pick this one up online and got it shipped to Canada. I think it being a Target exclusive limits the audience quite a bit as I could easily see this in the top 10 family games on BGG. I sleeved the cards…and I NEVER sleeve cards…because they wouldn’t survive the constant shuffling (especially with kids shuffling). Mike is right. It’s similar to El Dorado, but I think the theme of this is something that has an even wider appeal. It is VERY thematic with a lot of the mechanics fitting well with the activities. For example, cave exploration allows you to blindly take one of the top cards that are face down! Dodgeball rewards you and hurts others by causing them to lose a card! Secret Admirer gives you five energy…and then you have to give it to another player! We love to play this one over and over! The one thing not mentioned in the review is that it REALLY feels like a race! It’s also really fun to figure out what order to play your cards in to maximize all of those combos.
Go figure, right? He also once put Caverna on a family games list… except that time he was right: I’ve found Caverna works really well with kids (as long as they have the patience for a game that length)!
No. That's not what he's saying at all. He was arguing that Targi and 7WD were in the Casual as opposed to Heavy category. Now he's arguing that Quest for El Dorado isn't *as* light as Summer Camp. Context matters. The two opinions are unrelated. I'm sure he would still put SC and QED both in the Casual category as opposed to Heavy right along with Targi and 7WD. It's a very broad category.
MSRP at Target is $24.99. Seems like a decent one to pick up for the family when there is a sale. I'd say the same for Trails, too. I like the idea of having some cheaper games to get and I am really glad that Target is trying to bring more kinds of board games to the store, rather than Candy Land, Trouble, and Monopoly.
I think that’s an amazing price, even with the modest components. I’m with Zee, if you want to play a fun game with non-hobby gamers, it looks great for that.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m super green to board gaming and really appreciate your candid feedback for light and heavy players. Looks like a great game for the cabin collection!
For people checking out this game and want a fix to the card situation. I highly recommend buying 3 cheapo 100 baseball card sleeves and putting them all in there. Use a spare baggy to put all the merit badges found within the deck boxes. Also you'll notice they fit really snug into the deck boxes and don't close all the way. I cut off the opener part of the boxes and put them in. They get in there nice and tight and only come out when you pull them out. It's a quick easy fix that adds a lot more shelf life to the game as it improves game feel, and the longevity of the cards. Especially because they're easier to shuffle. Imo i'll easily forgive this, because there's a surprising amount of stuff in that box for only 25 bucks. I find it kind of remarkable sometimes. So I understand they had to cut some corners to get it on the shelves at that price. I'm a light to medium weight gamer who has the occasional tasting for heavier games like Scythe and Root. But Summer Camp is one of my favorite games up alongside PARKS. Highly recommend this game to people who enjoy light games that enjoy a game with options. Because Summer Camp has such a direct way of communicating ideas to you, that I've introduced it to people who never play games like this. And even they get insights into more interesting strategies, and can see ways to "abuse" mechanics to boost their ability to win. It's very exciting!
Really liking your 4 Squares Reveiws...it's nice to see multiple points of view for a single game vs a single reviewer IMO. I haven't seen one yet where you really disagreed (like two of you loving it, and two hating it), that's not to say you haven't done one, but I haven't seen one yet...and I look forward to it.
The current decks are still rather vanilla, so I lean towards a 7(recommend to some), but there's room for more. So if they ever add expansions to give the decks a little extra depth to them, I can see this going to an 8. I think another valid comparison is Dale of Merchants in how you can sub in groups of cards and is fairly easy to teach. While I prefer that as well, I still think this is a very good game for its intended audience.
I really think especially for the price, The game is really fun with good replayability and components in my opinion. Really fun for my fiancée and I to play together lately
This measured rules explanation is SO much better than the normal on-the-fly style. Improv is awesome for the opinion-based segments, but rules are so much better with a script.
I am somewhat curious about the game but if really it's way lighter than the super light game that is El Dorado, it's a no go for me (and I'm a medium-light gamer).
I think this is a great welcoming game, like the guys said. I do wish some of the decks felt a bit more varied to me. But it’s so accessible and easy to get into.
It’s a very light game, almost too light. I agree it’s the perfect intro to deck-building for casual gamers. I didn’t like that there’s no way to trash cards out of your deck. Also I had so much energy the whole time there was no tension when I had to choose which cards to buy. At the end it was just about buying the cards that offered me the most points. 7/10 is right for me.
Honestly depends if you're using the cooking module or not. Without the cooking module I found getting high enough consistent energy to be difficult to always buy the higher point cards. With the cooking module it's easier since that deck throws tons of extra energy cards at you.
Harry Potter Hogwarts Battle has a similar deckbuilding situation in which there is no deck thinning. Instead you have draw and discard options that allow you navigate your deck quicker.
I think this one isn’t going to be one I buy because I have Hogwarts Battle, which with the first couple levels are float away light, but it has more to throw in. I wish this one would have had those extra swap out decks add additional mechanisms that could have upped the complexity a bit. Too bad, it looks pretty and I like the theme a lot, but I don’t have money to double up on games that don’t offer anything more than what I already have.
For this type of game I find your final thoughts lots more useful than the rating. It is about the right game for the right group and there are loads of people this could be the game for.
Fantastic welcoming game. Would rate it an 8. Rules overhead is very low and fun is high. Cards are the only complaint. They’re thick but flimsy. I’ve already sleeved them after 3 plays and I don’t usually sleeve cards.
As a certified camping apologist, I'm sorry all of your childhoods were diminished by a lack of propper summer camp goodness. 😁 Especially for Mike. I hate hearing when someone has had a single bad experience and it tarnishes the adventure for the rest of their life. Everyone that does anything slightly adventurous has stories about "that time X happened," but working through unexpected and unpleasant experiences is part of the rewarding experience of adventure, and there is usually enough fun and memory-making over the years to more than make up for it. Not that Mike's example was this lame, but I've heard people say, "I tried camping once, but it rained, so I'm never doing that again!" In such cases, that might be for the best. But for you guys, you're certainly not too old and "grown-up" to get out and have fun. And now you're old enough to avoid Summer Camp and experience outdoor activities on your own terms. I hope y'all are able to take advantage of the near-endless options and have some fun!
@@gs24-xor I have not played that game. Camp Pinetop is quite good with multi-player and solo, and is not much more money than Summer Camp but a lot more game it seems. I do not know about Quest for el Dorado
If your family likes Harry Potter I highly recommend that one. It starts out very basic with years 1-3 then increases difficulty and complexity. The later years the games can be longer (2ish hours) so that is potentially an issue but if the family likes the theme I feel like it keeps you very engaged.
Looks like another Phil Walker-Harding game that people play once, like it, but move on and never play again. Yet when asked, they say it's a great game. See Gizmos, Barenpark, etc.
No one mentionned that all decks are the same? Half of each deck is just cards with move 1 2 or 3 spaces on different paths. Giving it a 9? Wow... Also what makes the others think that El Dorado is less accessible to non-gamers? Move on the path and/or buy cards until one wins. The only difference is when purchasing cards you can buy from the market only unless one deck in the market is empty then you can buy from whichever you want. A 7 year old could play it.
It looks nice but super super super light. I'm a massive fan of deck builders but this one I doubt would entertain me over time and there are other simple deck builders out there, ones I think I must show Chris 😂
@@DTChrisYi Ha ha well I'm not saying they are simpler than this, I think Summer Camp will hold the gold star for that one. But lately I've fallen in love with Rune Stones as a light deck builder, that can easily be made a little more gamer-y with expansions.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I used to think I prefer heavier games. But now that I have dipped my toes in different depths, I think I just like games regardless of complexity.
Same!
So many people fall into the trap of automatically thinking lighter or "family" games are automatically bad. It's the worse thing about this hobby. People will see a game on the shelf at Target and automatically assume it's not good because it isn't a heavy mini filled kickstarter.
There seems to be an accidental transition mistake at 6:47 and the Final Thoughts timestamp should be 6:57
Thank you for such a great explanation I never played such type of the game and was absolutely lost.
Mike is right in comparing this to El Dorado.
This reminded me of El Dorado as well. I’m not sure you would need both in your collection
Indeed he is.
Yup. I’m shocked that the others think El Dorado is much heavier. I have frequently played El Dorado with 5 year olds! It’s a fantastic family game that is accessible to pre-readers as well as being fun for adults. The ability to play different maps makes it easy to adjust El Dorado’s difficulty. Summer Camp’s cards have a lot of text; I can’t see this being playable for most 5-6 year olds.
@@ginsbu I think Tom and Zee (maybe Zee a little more so) either underestimate people ability to learn a game or over overestimate the complexity of games. I'm assuming it's from their own experiences so I can't fault them for that, but in my experience you can get people to play and do well at some really complicated games as long as they are motivated to learn.
@@ginsbu I agree that El Dorado can certainly be a kid friendly game that scales well over time as they grow up. That was my family's experience with it. You could easily setup a small map of El Dorado with just a few easy tiles and just the initial offering of cards to purchase and play it with very young children. The iconography makes reading optional.
There’s a great example of why foursquare reviews are so good. I know normally the person who likes the game the most reviews it. To show this game ranges from 7 to 9 for all of you really makes it a nice well Rounded review. Thank you for doing these.
When I want to play a game with someone who doesn't play games I do try to minimize the complexity, but I do want them to have fun interesting decisions. If not, you may not get the "what else is there" that Tom alluded to. Tom's comment also makes me believe that no one will want to play it again after the first play.
Also Mike is absolutely on point with The Quest for El Dorado.
My library teacher’s brother helped design this game
This was such a great review. I managed to pick this one up online and got it shipped to Canada. I think it being a Target exclusive limits the audience quite a bit as I could easily see this in the top 10 family games on BGG. I sleeved the cards…and I NEVER sleeve cards…because they wouldn’t survive the constant shuffling (especially with kids shuffling). Mike is right. It’s similar to El Dorado, but I think the theme of this is something that has an even wider appeal. It is VERY thematic with a lot of the mechanics fitting well with the activities. For example, cave exploration allows you to blindly take one of the top cards that are face down! Dodgeball rewards you and hurts others by causing them to lose a card! Secret Admirer gives you five energy…and then you have to give it to another player! We love to play this one over and over! The one thing not mentioned in the review is that it REALLY feels like a race! It’s also really fun to figure out what order to play your cards in to maximize all of those combos.
Tom was arguing Targi and 7 wonders duel were casual games in the last top ten and now el Dorado isn't? 🤔
Go figure, right? He also once put Caverna on a family games list… except that time he was right: I’ve found Caverna works really well with kids (as long as they have the patience for a game that length)!
No. That's not what he's saying at all.
He was arguing that Targi and 7WD were in the Casual as opposed to Heavy category.
Now he's arguing that Quest for El Dorado isn't *as* light as Summer Camp.
Context matters. The two opinions are unrelated. I'm sure he would still put SC and QED both in the Casual category as opposed to Heavy right along with Targi and 7WD. It's a very broad category.
People muddle "casual", "family", and "gateway" way too often and try to paint them all with the same broad stroke.
MSRP at Target is $24.99. Seems like a decent one to pick up for the family when there is a sale. I'd say the same for Trails, too. I like the idea of having some cheaper games to get and I am really glad that Target is trying to bring more kinds of board games to the store, rather than Candy Land, Trouble, and Monopoly.
I think that’s an amazing price, even with the modest components. I’m with Zee, if you want to play a fun game with non-hobby gamers, it looks great for that.
I got a damaged box copy on clearance for half off. Girlfriend and I enjoyed our first couple plays.
It's on clearance now, I got it for $7.50.
after watching the play on the summer spectacular i was intrigued now i think i am sold thanks.
I'm still trying to figure out how Mike got chap lips at camp. Was it held in the middle of winter?
Tom is Wrong. El Dorado is DiLisio's Delight, much to Zee's Confusion.
Meep.
I don't know that I would play this on my own, but I've had GREAT success with it with people who don't play a lot of games. A keeper for sure.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I’m super green to board gaming and really appreciate your candid feedback for light and heavy players. Looks like a great game for the cabin collection!
Zee and Chris are spot on. This game is just fun!!!
I like the concept, I will try it! Thanks for the video guys!
For people checking out this game and want a fix to the card situation. I highly recommend buying 3 cheapo 100 baseball card sleeves and putting them all in there. Use a spare baggy to put all the merit badges found within the deck boxes. Also you'll notice they fit really snug into the deck boxes and don't close all the way. I cut off the opener part of the boxes and put them in. They get in there nice and tight and only come out when you pull them out.
It's a quick easy fix that adds a lot more shelf life to the game as it improves game feel, and the longevity of the cards. Especially because they're easier to shuffle.
Imo i'll easily forgive this, because there's a surprising amount of stuff in that box for only 25 bucks. I find it kind of remarkable sometimes. So I understand they had to cut some corners to get it on the shelves at that price.
I'm a light to medium weight gamer who has the occasional tasting for heavier games like Scythe and Root. But Summer Camp is one of my favorite games up alongside PARKS. Highly recommend this game to people who enjoy light games that enjoy a game with options. Because Summer Camp has such a direct way of communicating ideas to you, that I've introduced it to people who never play games like this. And even they get insights into more interesting strategies, and can see ways to "abuse" mechanics to boost their ability to win.
It's very exciting!
Really liking your 4 Squares Reveiws...it's nice to see multiple points of view for a single game vs a single reviewer IMO. I haven't seen one yet where you really disagreed (like two of you loving it, and two hating it), that's not to say you haven't done one, but I haven't seen one yet...and I look forward to it.
The current decks are still rather vanilla, so I lean towards a 7(recommend to some), but there's room for more. So if they ever add expansions to give the decks a little extra depth to them, I can see this going to an 8. I think another valid comparison is Dale of Merchants in how you can sub in groups of cards and is fairly easy to teach. While I prefer that as well, I still think this is a very good game for its intended audience.
yeah, i think the game is very DoM for me!
I really think especially for the price, The game is really fun with good replayability and components in my opinion. Really fun for my fiancée and I to play together lately
What happened at the 6:50 mark? Was it spoilers?
So, how does this compare to Extraordinary Adventures: Pirates? Also a 3 track deck builder racing game.
This measured rules explanation is SO much better than the normal on-the-fly style. Improv is awesome for the opinion-based segments, but rules are so much better with a script.
Thanks! Been waiting for this review. I love Phil Walker Harding but this seems a little too light for me.
Great job guys! Can’t wait to check this one out 💪🏼
I am somewhat curious about the game but if really it's way lighter than the super light game that is El Dorado, it's a no go for me (and I'm a medium-light gamer).
Looks like a perfect palette cleaner, between heavy games.
I think this is a great welcoming game, like the guys said. I do wish some of the decks felt a bit more varied to me. But it’s so accessible and easy to get into.
My family likes this one a lot, especially my 7 year old, but we feel there is a slight first player advantage.
It’s a very light game, almost too light. I agree it’s the perfect intro to deck-building for casual gamers. I didn’t like that there’s no way to trash cards out of your deck. Also I had so much energy the whole time there was no tension when I had to choose which cards to buy. At the end it was just about buying the cards that offered me the most points. 7/10 is right for me.
Honestly depends if you're using the cooking module or not. Without the cooking module I found getting high enough consistent energy to be difficult to always buy the higher point cards. With the cooking module it's easier since that deck throws tons of extra energy cards at you.
@@Aquadoozy ah yes I was using the cooking module. Good to know, should give it a try with some different modules. Thanks.
Harry Potter Hogwarts Battle has a similar deckbuilding situation in which there is no deck thinning. Instead you have draw and discard options that allow you navigate your deck quicker.
Just ordered The Quest for El Dorado. Happy to hear Mikes thoughts on this.
Love the 4 square reviews!
I think this one isn’t going to be one I buy because I have Hogwarts Battle, which with the first couple levels are float away light, but it has more to throw in. I wish this one would have had those extra swap out decks add additional mechanisms that could have upped the complexity a bit. Too bad, it looks pretty and I like the theme a lot, but I don’t have money to double up on games that don’t offer anything more than what I already have.
For this type of game I find your final thoughts lots more useful than the rating. It is about the right game for the right group and there are loads of people this could be the game for.
If you guys ever redo your 10 Horror-Themed Games list, you should have Summer Camp on it. Summer Camp was always a nightmare.
Fantastic welcoming game. Would rate it an 8. Rules overhead is very low and fun is high. Cards are the only complaint. They’re thick but flimsy. I’ve already sleeved them after 3 plays and I don’t usually sleeve cards.
As a certified camping apologist, I'm sorry all of your childhoods were diminished by a lack of propper summer camp goodness. 😁
Especially for Mike. I hate hearing when someone has had a single bad experience and it tarnishes the adventure for the rest of their life. Everyone that does anything slightly adventurous has stories about "that time X happened," but working through unexpected and unpleasant experiences is part of the rewarding experience of adventure, and there is usually enough fun and memory-making over the years to more than make up for it.
Not that Mike's example was this lame, but I've heard people say, "I tried camping once, but it rained, so I'm never doing that again!" In such cases, that might be for the best. But for you guys, you're certainly not too old and "grown-up" to get out and have fun. And now you're old enough to avoid Summer Camp and experience outdoor activities on your own terms. I hope y'all are able to take advantage of the near-endless options and have some fun!
17.99 at Target right now
Anyone else went to Summer Camp and 9 months later got a brother/sister?
Check out Camp Pinetop, similar theme, but a lot more game and a great solo mode too
is Camp Pinetop better than Quest for el Dorado?
@@gs24-xor I have not played that game. Camp Pinetop is quite good with multi-player and solo, and is not much more money than Summer Camp but a lot more game it seems. I do not know about Quest for el Dorado
@@theshogunstein6475 thanks, added to the wishlist
Chris needs to narrate some audiobooks or something.
I want to introduce my kids (11 and 9) to deckbuilding. Would this be a good game for that? Would the Harry Potter deckbuilder be a better?
If your family likes Harry Potter I highly recommend that one. It starts out very basic with years 1-3 then increases difficulty and complexity. The later years the games can be longer (2ish hours) so that is potentially an issue but if the family likes the theme I feel like it keeps you very engaged.
I highly recommend The Quest for El Dorado. Maps are modular so you can scale the challenge up as they learn.
@@ginsbu I've played El Dorado and didn't think it was anything special. I guess it might be good for the kids, though.
Just grabbed at walmart for $2.50. Can't pass up a dice tower recommendation for that price!
The Final Thoughts break in the video timeline is about a minute too late.
tutorial starts at @2:38 haha
Looks like another Phil Walker-Harding game that people play once, like it, but move on and never play again. Yet when asked, they say it's a great game. See Gizmos, Barenpark, etc.
I guess? I've played Gizmos and Barenpark many times.
No one mentionned that all decks are the same? Half of each deck is just cards with move 1 2 or 3 spaces on different paths. Giving it a 9? Wow...
Also what makes the others think that El Dorado is less accessible to non-gamers? Move on the path and/or buy cards until one wins. The only difference is when purchasing cards you can buy from the market only unless one deck in the market is empty then you can buy from whichever you want. A 7 year old could play it.
Chris came out of nowhere!
It looks nice but super super super light. I'm a massive fan of deck builders but this one I doubt would entertain me over time and there are other simple deck builders out there, ones I think I must show Chris 😂
Bring it, name them. Other ones might not charm me the same way, but happy to try stuff out. Also happy to call you out if you're totally wrong 😛
@@DTChrisYi Ha ha well I'm not saying they are simpler than this, I think Summer Camp will hold the gold star for that one. But lately I've fallen in love with Rune Stones as a light deck builder, that can easily be made a little more gamer-y with expansions.
@@DTChrisYi This seems like you could do a deck building games face off with Luke
wow! a seal of excellence for Summer Camp? I seriously think it's time to change the criterion from "the highest rating" to "the average of ratings"