Good stuff. I think part of the problem is the inexactitude of the language we use to discuss these things. Another problem is that people are looking for easy answers, like "I know what a horse goddess is, and that's good enough."
I've just discovered you. Pease don't stop... it's so refreshing to hear you speak with such a lack of 'agenda'... you are a true scholar....so very interesting
Thanks for this Gwilym. There is soooo much history to attempt to comprehend that we naturally try to simplify. When it comes to horse goddesses, evolved over such a long period of time it's interesting to consider the evolution of our relationship to horses themselves during this time. They were once fully wild, later beasts of burden, later still breed for particular qualities and ridden, and addition to our battle strength etc etc.
When I was trying to study the Picts and Celtic background 30 years ago, it was so hard to get real information once I left Scotland again. It is so amazing to me to hear people speaking about it with conversations, and it isn't even tied to colleges. I wish that it had been easier to track verbal passdown of information. It is wonderful to hear different variations on each story based upon people's memories and memories.
So more of an ancestral lineage, family tree, descendant sort of thing? Thats what popped into my mind. They're connected but more through a family line sort of connection rather than one original horse goddess full stop. Then another version full stop. It is more interconnected.
And we might remember we have personal relationships with these beings which are clouded or coloured by the relationships we've had in our lives, particularly childhood. Just as the past experiences colour or cloud our current relationships. Be they outward or internal archetypes. I love that you teach nuances. Thank you 💙
It's very similar to, and has overlaps with, the arguments for soft polytheism (multi-god inclusive monotheism ascribing all gods as aspects of "the One") and hard polytheism (they are different persons, not just all facets of one person).
Interesting. I personally feel like communal expresssions of the divine are more unique to those communities than we often allow for. We make these sweeping back projections which misses that crucial relationhsip which is at the heart of all of this.
Great video. I was just in a mode of exploration the other day in a group of mine on Facebook and was exploring the different Proto Horse Goddesses and came to the same conclusion. However, I have a condition that I have forced upon me that won't let me understand until I uncover every facet of information no matter the damage to specific cultural ideas. People are creatures of habit and constantly make patterns and this is the only reason for the quest to associate. I do understand the cultural significance of a localized deity however, I feel that specific religious groups exploit the fact that local trumps the history of other cultures, so they call it heresy when this happens. In order to stop a very powerful group of people in destroying some very sacred ideas of the old gods and goddesses we must not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
I always wondered about the relationship of Macha to older traditions, especially since I heard a rumor that Macha's association with horses may have been the result of a mistranslation or clerical error. This obviously isn't a definitive answer to those curiosities, but it is helpful.
I think there's a veru explicit connection between Macha and horses, it's found across a few significant sources, so unlikely to be an error, it also chimes with lots of other traditions
Sorry I'm late to this party 😄 I didn't know about the linguistic difficulty of trying to trace Welsh Dôn back to the same root as Danu, really interesting! I'm curious - apols if this is a dumb question, we've established historical linguistics isn't my area - how does the Irish figure Donn fit into this picture, if at all?
indeed, and moon / river / mountain deities of all kinds. I suppose the important thing is that each historical community finds its own embodiments of the sacred
Good stuff. I think part of the problem is the inexactitude of the language we use to discuss these things. Another problem is that people are looking for easy answers, like "I know what a horse goddess is, and that's good enough."
Black and white thinking helps people feel safe, even if they are deluding themselves.
indeed
I've just discovered you. Pease don't stop... it's so refreshing to hear you speak with such a lack of 'agenda'... you are a true scholar....so very interesting
I really ❤ this telling their story in the forest presentation. Please keep doing it this way!
If I must! I do like being outside, a lot.
Great video thanks for posting.
you're welcome
Thanks for this Gwilym. There is soooo much history to attempt to comprehend that we naturally try to simplify. When it comes to horse goddesses, evolved over such a long period of time it's interesting to consider the evolution of our relationship to horses themselves during this time. They were once fully wild, later beasts of burden, later still breed for particular qualities and ridden, and addition to our battle strength etc etc.
We've certainly evolved alongside them in the last few thousand years. In that sense, it's still a relatively new relationship.
When I was trying to study the Picts and Celtic background 30 years ago, it was so hard to get real information once I left Scotland again. It is so amazing to me to hear people speaking about it with conversations, and it isn't even tied to colleges. I wish that it had been easier to track verbal passdown of information. It is wonderful to hear different variations on each story based upon people's memories and memories.
it's the only way culture travels
I love the way you explain the characters!
thanks!
So more of an ancestral lineage, family tree, descendant sort of thing?
Thats what popped into my mind. They're connected but more through a family line sort of connection rather than one original horse goddess full stop. Then another version full stop. It is more interconnected.
Excatly. I fine the grandmother-mother-daughter analogy helps most.
And we might remember we have personal relationships with these beings which are clouded or coloured by the relationships we've had in our lives, particularly childhood. Just as the past experiences colour or cloud our current relationships. Be they outward or internal archetypes.
I love that you teach nuances.
Thank you 💙
you're welcome
Really lovely peaceful walk. Not a soul. Thanks for your wisdom as always
Hello friend. I wonder if you would someday talk about celtic roots in Iberia !
one day I'm sure I will, there's certainly more to be said since the last few decades
Evolution is key. Massive difference between early Bronze Age and subsequent Iron Age.
Indeed
It's very similar to, and has overlaps with, the arguments for soft polytheism (multi-god inclusive monotheism ascribing all gods as aspects of "the One") and hard polytheism (they are different persons, not just all facets of one person).
Interesting. I personally feel like communal expresssions of the divine are more unique to those communities than we often allow for. We make these sweeping back projections which misses that crucial relationhsip which is at the heart of all of this.
Great video. I was just in a mode of exploration the other day in a group of mine on Facebook and was exploring the different Proto Horse Goddesses and came to the same conclusion. However, I have a condition that I have forced upon me that won't let me understand until I uncover every facet of information no matter the damage to specific cultural ideas. People are creatures of habit and constantly make patterns and this is the only reason for the quest to associate. I do understand the cultural significance of a localized deity however, I feel that specific religious groups exploit the fact that local trumps the history of other cultures, so they call it heresy when this happens. In order to stop a very powerful group of people in destroying some very sacred ideas of the old gods and goddesses we must not go gentle into that good night, Old age should burn and rave at close of day; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
We can only ever create these things for ousrelves, reconstructed from bits of the past. Like you say, we make patterns.
@@CelticSource Outstanding! It is so rare to connect to people who make sense. Thank you for what you do.
I always wondered about the relationship of Macha to older traditions, especially since I heard a rumor that Macha's association with horses may have been the result of a mistranslation or clerical error. This obviously isn't a definitive answer to those curiosities, but it is helpful.
I think there's a veru explicit connection between Macha and horses, it's found across a few significant sources, so unlikely to be an error, it also chimes with lots of other traditions
Sorry I'm late to this party 😄 I didn't know about the linguistic difficulty of trying to trace Welsh Dôn back to the same root as Danu, really interesting! I'm curious - apols if this is a dumb question, we've established historical linguistics isn't my area - how does the Irish figure Donn fit into this picture, if at all?
see this video ruclips.net/video/CPED6Nem0kY/видео.html
Any ideas on the Etain story? Surely one of the best : )
Yes, plenty! We cover it on one of the Irish myth courses, it's quite involved . . .
Might we also apply the same logic to "sun" "gods"?
indeed, and moon / river / mountain deities of all kinds. I suppose the important thing is that each historical community finds its own embodiments of the sacred
Gwych, Gwilym! Diolch yn fawr. Defnythiol iawn.
Croeso mawr
Diolch yn fawr
croeso
We are not Indo anything. The first lie you must overcome. Has enough Indo's invaded your lands yet, Aryans? Do tell.