Intention is not to be conflated with the outcome. Player safety is paramount. Personally, I felt sorry for Joseph but I felt deeply concerned for Reece. The send off was righteous.
It’s a sendoff. It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. It was shoulder to head with a lot of force. Suaalii tried to put on a big hit and he got it wrong. He paid the price.
@will it is that simple...QLD simply out DISCIPLINED!!!..out played and out muscled stop sooking new south Wales. Valid excuse down to 12 on the field. 12 players have won rugby league games before..you need near perfect tackling technique to pull that shot off..thigh area would have been a safer target for defender but if he gets that wrong he'll wear hip or a knee..due to rule change maybe??When he gets it right I wouldn't like to be on the end it.. TECHNIQUE brother..give him another chance!
What was he meant to do. Answer is simple. Look at the Liam martin hit. Best shot of the whole game. Raced up and in , but got low and drove up through his ribs. Was a perfect tackle.
How can Wing sit across from Lewis & say that shouldn't be a send off. Wally's situation exemplifies why the game has to be serious about concussion. Graham is spot on calling the referee's actions smart - for the future of the game, even if this particular game was reduced as a spectacle.
I tend to disagree it’s a contact sport and you get risk pay very well for it. I still box even though everyone knows what happened to Muhammad Ali. HIAs are ruining the game.
@@sloppygoo I box, or more accurately, used to box. I don’t now, and was never very good, but I always prided myself on the fact that I wasn’t worried about taking a punch. I stopped because I’m older now, but I’m l glad I did. I got hit hard quite a few times, but was constantly hit by jabs. I watched Ray Price in an interview. He’s got signs of dementia. He was asked about the HIA policy. I thought he’d rubbish it, given his contrary nature, but all he said was if they don’t protect the players one day they won’t have any players.
Needs to be a send of. Can’t have that in the game. Wally, Corey Parker and many other players with brain injuries are an example of what happens if we allow that to continue.
@@unclejeda1 aside from the fact the slip didn't change his height (re watch the footage if you aren't aware) slipping is irrelevant. The play was reckless which is grounds for send off.
It can also be a send off in golden oldies, do many people watch that? People say you don't have a game without a ref, but you don't have origin without viewers.
Have no doubt that Sua'ali did not mean to hit Walsh in the head but it is utter rubbish to suggest he wasn't tryinging to take a shot at him. Walsh was already hit late while kicking (no penalty) and if you watch it again and you'll see he never had any intent to use his arms (shoulder charge in the face). He was taking a shot at the most dangerous opponent and things went wrong.. Walsh won't play for 3 weeks and everyone is highlighting how tough it is for Sua'ali. How about the victim! To suggest NSW were victimised is rubbish, QLD played without their best player for 72 mins
We'll said. Something that's missing from this conversation is the fact it denied Reece his opportunity to play an origin match in addition to the short andong term health consequences.
@@moneymarv6861 well what about the ‘spectacle’, the ‘product’ and the origin career of a young player (never mind that he’s off to union) ? What about all those poor NSW fans who were SAD because their team LOST ?Many say that they won’t watch origin again (until origin 2). It’s gone soft, it’s touch football, Krause will be dead soon and we’ll all be watching Union…. Waaaahhh.
They tried to take Walsh out plain and simple. And the fact he didn't play any more after that reckless hit made the decision a no brainer. He had to be sent off otherwise the referee is sending a message that reckless play is OK and that's how people get seriously injured. Right decision was made and NSW need to play the ball not try taking out key players to get the win.
100% not an accident. Supposed to be a professional player. He lined Rease up and let him have it. And it says a lot about anyone who condones that kind of play.
"What is he supposed to do" How about tackling legally. When you jump, leading with your shoulder, the only intent is to knock someone out. "Rhys slipped and his head lowers 6 inches" 😂😂😂😂 walsh is only starting to slip after the shoulder is already 2 inches from his head. It was 100% intent, 100% illegal and dangerous and 100% worthy of a send off. If it was cleary (if he was playing) or tedesco who had their head taken off, and a QLDer being sent off. Noone would even be discussing if it was or not worthy of a send off.
@@jaromeasdale7157 he 100% intended to take him out/injure him, that was nsw’s gameplan and it was clear from minute 1. Nothing wrong with that if you manage to stay in the rules but you cant cry like bitches when you face the consequences.
@@Plugitinbby no ones crying mate, the OP said his intent was to knock him out. I just said that is BS, the intent was to flatten him no doubt and within the rules, but saying he wanted to hit is head is reaching.
watch the replay he led with his shoulder straight to his head i agree tackle legally bloody oath its worth a send off . let me tackle you like that see what you say if you wake up . walsh could have been a paraplegic you want that idiot
Anyone who thinks Walsh slipped into it go and rewatch the footage. He is a player with a low centre of gravity, he is often low when he passes. He loses his footing a milisecond before impact and it doesnt affect his height at all, it was always going to be high. This has been a send off for over 10 years.
100% sent off. Nearly every head high tackle send-off is unintentional. Once he turned his head and left his feet, he automatically became responsible for anything that went wrong. Blues fan here. I think the send-off and Teddy are the main reasons we lost any chance of winning. How could he not tackle Hunt?? Shocking. And every time he batted the ball onto the winger, it went out. WTF.
Mate Craig wing said it perfectly. Once Reece starts slipping down, what possibly can he do. Even Wally said, it became worse when Walsh slipped. The whole responsibilty can't be on the defender. It just can't, accidents happen. The whole of NSW got punished for one players mistake
He decided to go Up an in, when he could have held the line and slid across. Qld targeted suaalii because he likes to defend up and in and there's so little margin for error that not only did he fail to stop walsh from passing (which put hammer into a hole where suaalii should have been) but he also managed to get hmself sent off.
I don't get how ppl think it isn't a send off. Then just hire head hunters and take ppls careers from them if they know you only get 10 in the bin. James Graham is spot on, ppl just want it to happen, until someone gets disabled for life then suddenly everyone forgets what they wanted. This is how you protect players, just don't do a shit tackle?
Alex mckinnon ring a bell? If you don't want to risk injury, dont play, and maybe people like you shouldn't watch. You drive a car knowing all too well you could get killed doing so, yet you take the risk. Anyone who played any contact sport knows that shit happens
@@shane1899 can understand shit happens, especially in contact sport. But you can still mitigate the amount of injuries long term to players by putting in strict red lines. I’m a QLD supporter and don’t really feel like we won that game, would honestly have loved for it to be 13 v 13 but that was a send off no matter what team.
Idea...how about the player instead of binned for a period, he stays off the field until the player he injured cones back.on, if the player doesn't return, you don't too, your team plays one man down till the opposition player returns to the field
How could he do it differently? Try doing it like many defenders do weekly when tackling a fullback who is wrapping round the back without knocking them unconscious. To listen to Wing you would think it is impossible to tackle legally.
Wingy. Joseph didn't plant his feet, he was 1 foot with right foot lifted and right shoulder forward. Right leg lifted is because his shoulder is furthest from his hip meaning he is going with shoulder.He was 2 metres from the after hitting Reece meaning he launched himself with shoulder.
Just because it’s origin doesn’t mean all the rules are a little more lenient. A player hits the head of their opponent, with their shoulder, it’s a minimum 10 minutes in the sin bin; maximum send off. No matter the colour of the jersey, that was a send off. I understand it’s a split second decision by the defender and it may not be intentional, but it’s still a send off because the shoulder contacted the head. My grandsons’ under 8s game is refereed to penalise contact with the head. The rule is there for a reason. Wally is a perfect example of that reason.
So it's a send off, why not just call it full time? having 12 v 13 at origin level is stupid, it was club game scores. Why even bother with origin, after the 7th minute it was a pointless game that just risked more injury, there's two players in the incident and how many more potential injuries did the NRL risk? If this is going to be the outcome of rep footy in the mid season, it needs to go.
@@shanerorko8076 you may think it’s stupid, that it’s a waste of time etc….but it’s still an illegal move by the defender. Origin or not, the powers that be have a duty of care. Or would you rather we go back to the days of Les Boyd/Darryl Brohman? I don’t think so. There is too much information available today for this sort of situation to warrant the decision that was made. Players on the field are doing a job. They should be safe. What happened Wednesday night was not safe.
@hellagood67 I never said it wasn't an illegal tackle, I said that if the ref has to send someone off at the 7th minute, what is the point of continuing state of origin? The series was won at the 7th minute, we may as well not bother with the other two games, it's just putting players at more risk.
Enjoyed the show boys.. Awesome seeing more guests come on to the show and its great to see some common sense takes on the matter. I wont leave myself open for much attack as a wests fan 😂😂..... I just wanted to say i enjoyed the show
Thank you Wally for your clarity and honesty on the Sualii incident. It's your honesty and integrity which makes you respected south of the border as well as north. Not a send off in Origin or NRL IMO.
The way they have decided to work in Rugby Union will probably be looked at by the NRL. A player commits a dangerous action resulting in injury, and receives a yellow card (ten minutes in the bin). In the interim, the action will be reviewed. If the action was INTENTIONAL injury (such as an eye gouge, or head stomping) they will be upgraded to a red card, and removed from the game for the rest of the match. However, if it was careless (as the origin incident appeared to be) as opposed to intentional, the player remains removed from the game with a red card, but the team will be allowed to send a replacement on after twenty minutes.
Suali was a victim of destructive coaching with the plan as Benny Elias said their intention and plans were to take Reece out, so a player who is not normally a dirty late hit high player had this in his mind, therefore the hit was intentional and planned...100%...he only had eyes at his head until he decided to launch at him....
It's the defenders responsibility to make sure accidents dont happen. even if it's not in your character or not intentional you get it wrong u pay the penalty. Like gus Gould always says if you wont give the penalty when the game is on the line it's not a penalty. That's a send off no matter if it's the 7th or 77th with the game on the line
That has to be a send off every time if we are going to take this seriously. Too many more hits like that can put a player's entire career into question. Origin or not, the brain doesn't know the difference. That 'slip' is nothing. Watch the footage again. His head does not get closer to the ground from the moment he plants his right foot to the moment he gets hit in the head. He was going to get knocked out regardless.
Bang on, If he had his hips lower and was aiming for his waist/rips, after Walsh slips he might of collected his chest no head, was a poor tackle technique, deserved the send off, and 4 weeks, gutted because the game was done 7min in, and the series that much even harder to try win. Game 3 decider suncorp would be epic
@@honeheke1128yeah because everyone tackles like that in rugby leauge aye? Bro he fkn slipped in to that. If walsh was standing tall that tackle hits him in the chest.
@@taimomatau9606 Look again. When players are running, evading, and passing at the same time - they adopt all sorts of positions, postures, and stances to get the job done. It would be unrealistic to expect Walsh to be 'upright' in that play. He's moving, and doing a lot of things at once. Again - from the moment he plants his right foot, to the moment he gets hit, his head doesn't actually get any closer to the ground. He was always going to get knocked out.
You obviously are an office worker, when your feet are at 45 deg to the ground, gravity takes over your upper body and you start falling. Also the match review committee designated it a carless high, which means no intention....... so the experts disagree with you.
@@shanerorko8076 And yet he was still sent off and is facing a month on the sideline. Have you ever disagreed with the 'experts' before? Do they get it right 100% of the time? Give me a break - like that means anything. Check the tape yourself - use the > key to go frame by frame. You will clearly see from the moment Walsh's right foot is planted solid to the point of impact, his head doesn't get any closer to the ground.
Wake up wingy, thats a send off all day every day. Doesn't matter if it's 'accidental', you smacked someone in the head with your shoulder...red card mate.. wake up
i watched the replay over and over and over and over he purposely did it watch it . Joseph hit the speed and line it up with a shoulder hit or head high ive done it in junior and senior rugby league local footy and even backyard footy heaps of time on smaller players smaller than me and its been done to me by bigger players . even my sister seen it and shes hearing impaired ,not blind theirs no doubt Reece was targeted , Well done REF welldone NRL judges well done send him off forever BANNED
Man could have made a ball and all tackle, he chose to risk the biscuit and the biscuit broke. It sux, but unfortunately that's how the cookie crumbles.
Up and in from Penrith got RW out of the game for weeks- no send off. Let’s do it again in Origin. Watching RW evading the defence is special. Again the game is now robbed of RW for another 2 weeks.
@@broncoscontent303I don’t think people are making that case. It’s more so about the fashion, jamming fast and tight. This desperation to get to one of the most evasive players I have ever seen, panics defenders and leads to recklessness. May and Suaalii, although in different circumstances, were both reckless and careless. I believe the reason May didn’t get 10 or a send off was because he got injured himself.
Sua'ali'i was trying to put a big shot on Walsh but got it wrong! If you make excuses for these types of cases and only give players 10 min in the bin, then it would become a reasonable option for all teams to do it. Why not wipe out the biggest danger threat from the other team, as well as make them play the rest of the game a player down on the bench. Then we can play tough for 10 minutes and have a full side for the rest of the game. Sorry, got to have appropriate consequences for actions.
If the act Suaalii did (irrespective of intent) is made to be only a sin bin, you will get teams bringing in a heavy hitter to "take out" opposition superstars and the offending team training to be down to 12 men for 10 minutes and then play against a less talented team after the man comes back from the sin bin in a 13 on 13 contest.
It was an intentional shot if you look again at the video replay. The ball was offloaded then, Reech was slipped simultaneously. While slipped Suaalii lowered his body and shoulder charged Reech. The send off was the right call.
NSW had a game plan of negativity from the get go - attacking Walsh was part of it - the young NSW player was doing what he was told - blame the NSW coaches. To stop the play they need more players. Also Crichton stopped almost everything without taking anybodies head off.
There is no way that sua'ali wasn't coached to do that. Why all the excuses. He did what he was told to do, and it didn't pay off. Next time, Maguire shouldn't coach that.
@russellross8723 it's been part of their game for Lockyer, Thurston, and now Walsh, and it clearly doesn't pay off, but NSW stick with it. Time for a smarter game plan.
I know right 😊 thanks time for a new game I lost count how many times The legendary JT. Got hit hard just kicking and doing his job did he complain , but Joseph's tackle and such a young age Was taken as targeted ,,, go qld
Given what we know about CTE and the more we find out, the worse it gets, the NRL don't have any other decision they can make (otherwise they will be sued down the track). Up and in defence is fine, but you've got to be trying to hit under the ball these days - even a front on tackle at the ball/top of the chest often will slip up to and hit the head (and risk a send off), but when you're trying to jam a guy on a sweep play and you're trying to hit the ball, it will go wrong more often than not. Plus, and this hasn't been mentioned anywhere near enough, it was a shoulder charge every day of the week - the arms didn't even start to half-heartedly wrap until his shoulder had caught Reece across the chin. Shoulder charge to a legal target area is a sin bin, to the head (regardless of intent) is a send off every day of the week.
According to wings logic the height difference should mean that if Reece was falling, which he actually was not, suali should of missed him completely given the height difference, wing is a former rooster remember
It is a send off for all games so you can’t let the rules change for origin or head hunting might be an excuse. Queensland were penalised by losing one of their best players so you need to show the the rules have meaning.
The ref and bunker would have been roasted by people either way. Game would have been closer with just a sin bin but QLD did plenty of damage in the first 10 minutes Joseph was off anyway
Saying it was an accident is not an argument. Saying he was falling is not a defense. If that was intentional then Joe is suspended for the rest of the year or the rest of his life. The fact is he ended another players origin game (and every origin game is precious) within 10min from dangerous contact to the head. Walsh is also out for his next club game too. And wouldn’t the first thing you do after the game is check in to see if Walsh is okay? And to say sorry for ending your game inside 10mins.
The speed Walsh plays at means the margin for error for defenders is microseconds. However, when a player falls into a shoulder why didn't they examine that a bit more. It was clear Walsh lost his footing in the pass and Suaali'i kept his trajectory - flying in at normal chest height. But the rules are the rules, and it is hard for the ref to get a good rap either way he adjudicates. If Klein hadn't sent Suaali'i I think Queensland still would have won. Better players and tactics all-round. Sending the player ruins the spectacle though. Why not send the player for 20 minutes and they can't return. After 20 minutes, a substitution comes on. After the match give the offending player penalties and sanctions etc.
Walsh always passes low and is much shorter that Sualii. If you actually watch the hit he loses his feet right before impact and the slip barely impacts his height at all.
I think really the only way to make sense of this situation and the same thing happening moving forward is around the effort that the defending player makes to lower the target. In this instance, Suaalii came at it with a perfect scenario approach which to me is surprising given the fact that it’s stated the height difference between the two players. He didn’t seem to make an attempt to lower his target which to me is why it is a send off. If you can complete your duty of care by aiming low and you still hit the head due to a slip etc, that’s where it should be 10 in the bin rather than a send off (in a realistic scenario).
on the tackle, even though its partly accidental the send off was fair. Qld lose Walsh and Joey gets 10mins? nah bro your gone. Tough luck. Aim and shoot don't close your eyes.
The hit was deliberate and pre-ordained, he missed him on the first attempt, this was not a spur of the moment decision. even if it hit his chest first it would have come up to the chin / head area, this was a deliberate tactic to take out a designated player, this is pre 1980's stuff that the games overlords have been gradually trying to eliminate for over 25 years, ex-players sometimes romanticise past eras as real rugby league but modern head trauma awareness and sports science demands protection for players, this exposes the game to huge legal penalties and compensation and most mums and dads will not let their kids play that game anymore, the fact that he recovered so far apparently fairly well is irrelevant as he may just as easily ended up in a wheelchair for life, the NSW player is not unknown to the judiciary for the same action previously, financial penalties and extended suspensions are the only thing that forces clubs and players to change, failure to penalise the player at that time with the send-off penalty sends a message that it will still be tolerated at certain representative levels which is completely unacceptable, the referee is very experienced and he knows the difference between accidental contact and deliberate attempts to maim a marked potentially game deciding talent the opposition has, Wally this was definitely pure stupidity.
Thing is the ref can't rule on intent. He can only rule on 1. Tackle to head 2. Carelessness 3. Forceful Shoulder charge is ruled out as arms were made in an attempt. So it comes down to the first 3. The shoulder didn't knock Walsh out it was the ground whiplash. Replays show this. So the optics of him getting knocked out and him falling into the tackle makes the severity or "forceful" worse than is. So the ref should have discussed with the TMO and broke it down factoring in Walsh falling and the ground. Sin bin and report should have been the call. Not send off.
Was a shoulder charge. The right arm was vertical and his body was braced for the impact on the shoulder. There was no attempt to grab his with that arm.
That's not what was ruled by Klein🤦♂️ Shoulder charge was cleared. It was contact to head. Forceful is the reason why he was not a penalty or sin bin and escalated to a send-off.
if that was a sin bin, like James brings up, it would have escalated in chaos, there would have been several more sin bins.... Accidental or not, Joseph intended to do a legal take and it went wrong entirely... Forceful contact to the head... If that isn't a send off, what is.. seriously... how much worse of contact to the head does it need to be for a send off ?
@DarkNess24567 Accident, intent doesn't matter. They are not in the rules or law. 1. Contact to head 2. Careless 3. Forceful These are what a determining factors. 3 is the judgement on what is "forceful". If Walsh does not get knocked out is that considered Forceful and sent off or sin bin? Does Walsh falling over give the optics that is was more Forceful than it really was? Did the shoulder knock Walsh out or did the ground knock him out? These are determining factors. Klein and TMO needed to thoroughly discuss this before deciding the outcome or consequence.
Players like Walsh are always dipping as they step, stop or pass. If you aim to tackle his shoulders you will risk getting his head! Have you guys thought about getting a medic on the show to explain the head injury assessment? My understanding is that even passing the tests if you were out cold or having a tonic posture on the field (both in this case) a concussion is diagnosed and there can be no return to play. Helps knowing if you need to send them to hospital for a CT scan though.
Literally gobsmacked by people trying to argue it’s not a red card. By 2024 standards (which I hate) It’s a red card 100% of the time. The conversation is should we change the rules to stop it ruining games
Total sense. I was originally against the softening of the game about 3-4 years ago. But now have opposite view. It's the only way the game can survive.
Suaali' had better learn to tackle better when he goes to Rugby Union where the responsibility to avoid the head is totally on the tackler regardless. It was a send off every day of the week.
Na no accident, other than Walsh being lower than usual. He was leading with his shoulder, he meant to hit him hard, you go in like that and get it wrong, that's the risk you take.
This was hard to listen to. Jam asking highly intelligent nuanced questions about the risk assessment of false positives, false negatives - lesser of two evils - and having Wally and Wing not willing to engage in intelligent debate was annoying AF. Jam you’re an absolute legend. I love your mind - you attack a problem willing to weigh pros and cons is a godsend
I would like to see a 20min sinbin, to be included as part of a referees options. A quarter of a game can be punishment for a team. 10.mins is not enough. But a game can be a dead rubber after a send off. But malice intent deserves a send off.
Facts are, not only were the NSW team punished for Joeys high shot for 70 odf min, the 80 odd thousand blues fans that travelled, payed for tickets were affected, and veiwing within Nsw was affected. That send off was overkill and robbed thousands of watching 26 of our best statesman go at it. 10 would have done, and a 4 week or whatever ban. To mamy variables were affected by that send off. And to anyone saying boo hoo poor Reece got hit high, if that was Nicho, or Teddy you'd all be jacking each other off .. The collision is why we watch the game.......isnt it??
If you watch for this type of collision go watch UFC. This is not rugby league and it hasn't been for a long time. We shouldn't be endangering the players because NSW fans gave up on the whole series after 7 minutes.
First origin game, family at the game, I doubt he intended to hit the head but he did and that makes it a send off. No doubt there will be a future incidents that demand a send off, the precedent has been set.
This was a great podcast thanks to Graham and Wing and Lewis because Reece was falling it was purely and accident 10mins would of been sufficient they passed his HIA imagine?
Jimmy had a good idea that the offender can't return to the field but after 10 mins NSW could use a reserve but not the 18th man. You are left a reserve short for the rest of the game. I think if Walsh is on the field the whole game 13 on 13 QLD win by more points anyway😉✌🍻
I agree with replacing a red carded player after 10 mins. Also the Rugby Union approach of sending a player to the sin bin and having the incident reviewed to see if it's worthy of a red card has some merit.
Can we not have a replaceable send off? In this scenario, Su'ali'i is off for the game (as is Walsh). After 10 minutes NSW can put a 13th back on but Sua can take no further part. QLD get 18th man activated. NSW are down to 16.
I can't believe the apologising about Sua'ali. He was clearly on a mission to hurt Walsh, even though he missed his intended target. A send off every day- and I would say the same if it was a NSW player hit. Hopefully the send-off will prevent it happening again.
People are complaining about how could he have tackled instead .... just look at Liam Martin rushing forward and creating textbook tackles with alot of force.
Wally you disappoint. The question was asked "what is he supposed to do?" Not a single comment on Suallii's poor technique. Your aim up high you run the risk. Ironic this is Ladbrokes sponsored. He placed his bet and lost. Won't be his first time unless he learns aim up lower. 100% a send off.
State of origin should be a seperate system for suspension,dont penalise the clubs that have lent these players for a totally different game from club football.Clubs must be sick of these extra games ruining there season through suspension 🤷♂️
😢 what about the targeted player taken out of club games thru foul play. Reece has lost 8 games already because of illegal play by the opposition. He is tough to keep putting himself in the position to get targeted every game
A send off at the beginning of the game is game over, but if it happens at the end of the game there's still hope. So it's an inconsistent punishment, for the same offence. That's not fair to fans or good for the game. Here's a solution: Suaali'i does a head high meaning Walsh is out of the game. So then, QLD get to choose a player to remove from the NSW team for the remainder of the game, they can choose Suaali'i or someone else. That means if Walsh is QLDs best player, QLD get to eject NSW best player. That's makes it unappealing for a coach to tell players to "sweep the leg" i.e. do an illegal tackle to hurt a player on purpose just to get rid of them. So that's that part sorted. Then NSW have to play with a man down for 10mins, but can bring a player from the bench after that to being them back up to 13 players, but they'd be down to 3 on the bench for the remainder of the game. That would have been fair. QLD would lose Walsh for the game. NSW would lose their best player, and QLD would get a penalty and 10mins with an extra man on the field, and a whole game with an extra man on the bench. NSW would be at a disadvantage, but still a hope of winning, which is good for the game and the fans.
it was 100% accidental. Take out the slip and its a tackle with perfect technique. The slip caused the head high, not the tackler. sin bin move on. Liam Martin did the exact same tackle on Hopgood but because there was no slip there was no high contact.
Yes you can. Everyday people get into car accidents because they’ve driven recklessly, they didn’t set out with the intent to crash their car it was an accident. Avoidable accident does not equal intentional
@@sloppygoo again, my point is that the tackle was reckless, not intentional. So whether he had intent or not is irrelevant as he was reckless. So you can't use it being accidental as a defence.
How is Craig not open to other options for the defender? Thinking there is no other way for the defender to shut the play down. Easiest way for the player running up and in that fast to be safer for the attacker would be to get lower. They said if he didn’t slip would’ve got him in chest. Therefore if he targets his abdomen and he slips maybe he gets him in the chest
For illegal reckless tackle, if victim leaves the field so should the aggressor. Penalty given & play with 12 for ten minutes, after that then both teams continue on with 13 players. If victim returns to play later in the game so should the aggressor. Any second instance in the game by the original aggressor team then player sent off.
think it through. if that became the standard coaches would plan even more to take out high quality players with a 'sacrificial' enforcer. essentially an ice hockey goon brought on for that purpose, with a sub ready to take his place. it'd a glorified sin bin and a situation that can be deliberately gamed to no benefit of the sport.
I have been critical of Ashley Klein in the past for times where he was too afraid to send players off the field for dangerous play. He should have sent Willie Mason to the sin-bin for punching Stuart Fielden in a test-match but he took the easy option and just put him on report. In 2021 he should have sent Latrell Mitchell off for his dangerous shot on Joseph Manu where he broke his cheekbone, but he didn't. In this game he did the right thing. Yes it may have ruined what could have been a great contest but as the referee you can't allow that to spook you. Sua'ali'i got it wrong, the onus was on him. I feel bad for him because he was just trying to put on a big hit, but he got it all wrong. Queensland lost Walsh as a result, Sua'ali'i had to go, and I commend Klein for not being swayed by the fact that it would have a huge impact on the contest.
The send off was fair but if anything should change, maybe if a ref deems the contact to not be intentional, then that team is allowed to engage the 18th man?
10 mins penalty for the other player has to leave the whole entire game is ridiculous argument this guy is a clown! If he is in Reece’s shoes you wouldn't agree! What a clown!!!🤡🤡🤡
To solve this problem maybe just maybe, instead of sending off a player you sin bin them for 10mins and for those that should be send off, sin bin them for 20mins. That might work.
Those that should be sent off should be sent off. That is why a send-off exists because sometimes players make a bad decision. Yeah, it's in the moment, but that is too bad. You chose the action.
Yer tuff for both players. Dont rekon its joes nature to do an tall man. Maybe like union after 20 nother guy so games still somewhat competitive. Cheers
Weather the send off was justified or not, is irrelevant to the fact that Rugby League doesn't work 12 v 13 anything over 15 minuets, especially at rep level. In the case of origin Kline might as well have blown full time at the send off, that is how significant that is.
So, one minute, Wingy and Wally are saying no one goes out their with intent to take people out. Then, when, James suggests the send-off, but after 10 minutes, you can bring in a substitute, they say, but then people will pick an expendable player purely to target the opponents best player. So, which is it? Do players intentionally target or do they not?
You can't say it's an accident therefore only 10 mins in the bin, so what happens if this happens in the next game and they break someone's face, is it still only an accident? Is it still only 10 mins? Or is it now a send off due to the injury? Any head high collison should be a send off.
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Intention is not to be conflated with the outcome. Player safety is paramount. Personally, I felt sorry for Joseph but I felt deeply concerned for Reece. The send off was righteous.
Don't conflate player safety with the game of rugby league. Players get knocked out from colliding with their own team mates.
It’s a sendoff. It doesn’t matter if it’s intentional or not. It was shoulder to head with a lot of force. Suaalii tried to put on a big hit and he got it wrong. He paid the price.
@will it is that simple...QLD simply out DISCIPLINED!!!..out played and out muscled stop sooking new south Wales. Valid excuse down to 12 on the field. 12 players have won rugby league games before..you need near perfect tackling technique to pull that shot off..thigh area would have been a safer target for defender but if he gets that wrong he'll wear hip or a knee..due to rule change maybe??When he gets it right I wouldn't like to be on the end it.. TECHNIQUE brother..give him another chance!
What was he meant to do. Answer is simple. Look at the Liam martin hit. Best shot of the whole game. Raced up and in , but got low and drove up through his ribs. Was a perfect tackle.
Exactly . As a Qlder I totally agree. Getting a bit sick of people blaming Reece.
This, as a Qlder I 100% agree - Liam's tackle was a ripper and rattled them...next tackle up and in and cause an error.
How can Wing sit across from Lewis & say that shouldn't be a send off. Wally's situation exemplifies why the game has to be serious about concussion. Graham is spot on calling the referee's actions smart - for the future of the game, even if this particular game was reduced as a spectacle.
I tend to disagree it’s a contact sport and you get risk pay very well for it. I still box even though everyone knows what happened to Muhammad Ali. HIAs are ruining the game.
quite easily
@@sloppygoo I box, or more accurately, used to box. I don’t now, and was never very good, but I always prided myself on the fact that I wasn’t worried about taking a punch. I stopped because I’m older now, but I’m l glad I did. I got hit hard quite a few times, but was constantly hit by jabs. I watched Ray Price in an interview. He’s got signs of dementia. He was asked about the HIA policy. I thought he’d rubbish it, given his contrary nature, but all he said was if they don’t protect the players one day they won’t have any players.
Needs to be a send of. Can’t have that in the game. Wally, Corey Parker and many other players with brain injuries are an example of what happens if we allow that to continue.
It was a send off in the 79th minute of a club game and in the 1st minute of an Origin game no matter who the player is or what team.
You are wrong sorry. He slipped
Soft, watch another sport
@@unclejeda1 aside from the fact the slip didn't change his height (re watch the footage if you aren't aware) slipping is irrelevant. The play was reckless which is grounds for send off.
@@DavidT97 go watch UFC, we care about the players
It can also be a send off in golden oldies, do many people watch that? People say you don't have a game without a ref, but you don't have origin without viewers.
Craig talking is the reason why it was a send off and the NRL is trying to stamp this out. I think he's been clipped high too many times.😂😂
Have no doubt that Sua'ali did not mean to hit Walsh in the head but it is utter rubbish to suggest he wasn't tryinging to take a shot at him. Walsh was already hit late while kicking (no penalty) and if you watch it again and you'll see he never had any intent to use his arms (shoulder charge in the face). He was taking a shot at the most dangerous opponent and things went wrong.. Walsh won't play for 3 weeks and everyone is highlighting how tough it is for Sua'ali. How about the victim! To suggest NSW were victimised is rubbish, QLD played without their best player for 72 mins
Maybe if Klein had pulled up that late hit after Walsh kicked it then maybe the send off may never have occurred
On the money...dead on!
We'll said. Something that's missing from this conversation is the fact it denied Reece his opportunity to play an origin match in addition to the short andong term health consequences.
@@moneymarv6861 well what about the ‘spectacle’, the ‘product’ and the origin career of a young player (never mind that he’s off to union) ? What about all those poor NSW fans who were SAD because their team LOST ?Many say that they won’t watch origin again (until origin 2). It’s gone soft, it’s touch football, Krause will be dead soon and we’ll all be watching Union…. Waaaahhh.
SEND OFF....SEND OFF....SEND OFF
They tried to take Walsh out plain and simple. And the fact he didn't play any more after that reckless hit made the decision a no brainer. He had to be sent off otherwise the referee is sending a message that reckless play is OK and that's how people get seriously injured. Right decision was made and NSW need to play the ball not try taking out key players to get the win.
Yeah because you were in the blues camp and that's what they talked about aye,?
@@taimomatau9606 two attempts in 7 minutes is not very subtle.
@@Legalpigeon tell him to wear proper metal studs next time so he doesn't slip .. geeeze he saw sualii froze up and thatade him slip lmao
Agreed. Play the game, and they wouldn't have been in that position... Idiots.
This could be the most ridiculous comment ever. 😳😳😳
100% not an accident. Supposed to be a professional player. He lined Rease up and let him have it. And it says a lot about anyone who condones that kind of play.
"What is he supposed to do"
How about tackling legally. When you jump, leading with your shoulder, the only intent is to knock someone out. "Rhys slipped and his head lowers 6 inches"
😂😂😂😂 walsh is only starting to slip after the shoulder is already 2 inches from his head.
It was 100% intent, 100% illegal and dangerous and 100% worthy of a send off. If it was cleary (if he was playing) or tedesco who had their head taken off, and a QLDer being sent off. Noone would even be discussing if it was or not worthy of a send off.
100% intent means you think he saw Walsh and said to himself im going to hit this bloke in the face. that is a ridiculous take.
@@jaromeasdale7157 he 100% intended to take him out/injure him, that was nsw’s gameplan and it was clear from minute 1. Nothing wrong with that if you manage to stay in the rules but you cant cry like bitches when you face the consequences.
@@Plugitinbby no ones crying mate, the OP said his intent was to knock him out. I just said that is BS, the intent was to flatten him no doubt and within the rules, but saying he wanted to hit is head is reaching.
watch the replay he led with his shoulder straight to his head i agree tackle legally bloody oath its worth a send off . let me tackle you like that see what you say if you wake up . walsh could have been a paraplegic you want that idiot
Have you ever played the game mate 😂😂😂 what a ridiculous take
Anyone who thinks Walsh slipped into it go and rewatch the footage. He is a player with a low centre of gravity, he is often low when he passes. He loses his footing a milisecond before impact and it doesnt affect his height at all, it was always going to be high.
This has been a send off for over 10 years.
50 60 years son.....
He clearly slipped into it. Do you run around at a 40 degree angle do you?
@@method6803 re-watch the footage. If you still think that then you are either blind dumb or both.
@@method6803 re-watch the footage. If you still think that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Spec savers bro.
100% sent off. Nearly every head high tackle send-off is unintentional. Once he turned his head and left his feet, he automatically became responsible for anything that went wrong. Blues fan here. I think the send-off and Teddy are the main reasons we lost any chance of winning. How could he not tackle Hunt?? Shocking. And every time he batted the ball onto the winger, it went out. WTF.
Wrong
Mate Craig wing said it perfectly. Once Reece starts slipping down, what possibly can he do. Even Wally said, it became worse when Walsh slipped. The whole responsibilty can't be on the defender. It just can't, accidents happen. The whole of NSW got punished for one players mistake
Never played the game nob hea
D
He decided to go Up an in, when he could have held the line and slid across. Qld targeted suaalii because he likes to defend up and in and there's so little margin for error that not only did he fail to stop walsh from passing (which put hammer into a hole where suaalii should have been) but he also managed to get hmself sent off.
Should have been 10 in the bin because unfortunately Walsh slipped over
I don't get how ppl think it isn't a send off. Then just hire head hunters and take ppls careers from them if they know you only get 10 in the bin. James Graham is spot on, ppl just want it to happen, until someone gets disabled for life then suddenly everyone forgets what they wanted. This is how you protect players, just don't do a shit tackle?
well said i coudnt agree more walsh was targeted
Nob never the game
Go watch Yawnion or soccer
Alex mckinnon ring a bell? If you don't want to risk injury, dont play, and maybe people like you shouldn't watch. You drive a car knowing all too well you could get killed doing so, yet you take the risk. Anyone who played any contact sport knows that shit happens
@@shane1899 can understand shit happens, especially in contact sport. But you can still mitigate the amount of injuries long term to players by putting in strict red lines. I’m a QLD supporter and don’t really feel like we won that game, would honestly have loved for it to be 13 v 13 but that was a send off no matter what team.
Idea...how about the player instead of binned for a period, he stays off the field until the player he injured cones back.on, if the player doesn't return, you don't too, your team plays one man down till the opposition player returns to the field
So when Carrigan broke Hastings leg in a hip drop tackle, Carrigan stays off the field until Hastings returns to the game?
How could he do it differently? Try doing it like many defenders do weekly when tackling a fullback who is wrapping round the back without knocking them unconscious. To listen to Wing you would think it is impossible to tackle legally.
Wingy. Joseph didn't plant his feet, he was 1 foot with right foot lifted and right shoulder forward. Right leg lifted is because his shoulder is furthest from his hip meaning he is going with shoulder.He was 2 metres from the after hitting Reece meaning he launched himself with shoulder.
Totally...went on with it absolutely drilled him...
As a NSW fan, it's 💯 a send off
Just because it’s origin doesn’t mean all the rules are a little more lenient. A player hits the head of their opponent, with their shoulder, it’s a minimum 10 minutes in the sin bin; maximum send off. No matter the colour of the jersey, that was a send off. I understand it’s a split second decision by the defender and it may not be intentional, but it’s still a send off because the shoulder contacted the head. My grandsons’ under 8s game is refereed to penalise contact with the head. The rule is there for a reason. Wally is a perfect example of that reason.
So it's a send off, why not just call it full time? having 12 v 13 at origin level is stupid, it was club game scores. Why even bother with origin, after the 7th minute it was a pointless game that just risked more injury, there's two players in the incident and how many more potential injuries did the NRL risk?
If this is going to be the outcome of rep footy in the mid season, it needs to go.
@@shanerorko8076 you may think it’s stupid, that it’s a waste of time etc….but it’s still an illegal move by the defender. Origin or not, the powers that be have a duty of care. Or would you rather we go back to the days of Les Boyd/Darryl Brohman? I don’t think so. There is too much information available today for this sort of situation to warrant the decision that was made. Players on the field are doing a job. They should be safe. What happened Wednesday night was not safe.
@hellagood67 I never said it wasn't an illegal tackle, I said that if the ref has to send someone off at the 7th minute, what is the point of continuing state of origin?
The series was won at the 7th minute, we may as well not bother with the other two games, it's just putting players at more risk.
Cordner retiring a few seasons ago from all the concussions is another perfect example of
Probably the first time I've actually seen a tackle and thought immediately it's a send off
Enjoyed the show boys..
Awesome seeing more guests come on to the show and its great to see some common sense takes on the matter.
I wont leave myself open for much attack as a wests fan 😂😂.....
I just wanted to say i enjoyed the show
Thank you Wally for your clarity and honesty on the Sualii incident. It's your honesty and integrity which makes you respected south of the border as well as north. Not a send off in Origin or NRL IMO.
The way they have decided to work in Rugby Union will probably be looked at by the NRL. A player commits a dangerous action resulting in injury, and receives a yellow card (ten minutes in the bin). In the interim, the action will be reviewed. If the action was INTENTIONAL injury (such as an eye gouge, or head stomping) they will be upgraded to a red card, and removed from the game for the rest of the match. However, if it was careless (as the origin incident appeared to be) as opposed to intentional, the player remains removed from the game with a red card, but the team will be allowed to send a replacement on after twenty minutes.
Suali was a victim of destructive coaching with the plan as Benny Elias said their intention and plans were to take Reece out, so a player who is not normally a dirty late hit high player had this in his mind, therefore the hit was intentional and planned...100%...he only had eyes at his head until he decided to launch at him....
Maguires instructions, late hit, high hit, with 100% intention, and Walsh was knocked out before he hit the ground...SEND OFF
it is a tough call when a member in the podcast was known for leading with his head...... go to the video tape.
It's the defenders responsibility to make sure accidents dont happen. even if it's not in your character or not intentional you get it wrong u pay the penalty. Like gus Gould always says if you wont give the penalty when the game is on the line it's not a penalty. That's a send off no matter if it's the 7th or 77th with the game on the line
That has to be a send off every time if we are going to take this seriously. Too many more hits like that can put a player's entire career into question. Origin or not, the brain doesn't know the difference. That 'slip' is nothing. Watch the footage again. His head does not get closer to the ground from the moment he plants his right foot to the moment he gets hit in the head. He was going to get knocked out regardless.
Bang on, If he had his hips lower and was aiming for his waist/rips, after Walsh slips he might of collected his chest no head, was a poor tackle technique, deserved the send off, and 4 weeks, gutted because the game was done 7min in, and the series that much even harder to try win. Game 3 decider suncorp would be epic
@@honeheke1128yeah because everyone tackles like that in rugby leauge aye? Bro he fkn slipped in to that. If walsh was standing tall that tackle hits him in the chest.
@@taimomatau9606 Look again. When players are running, evading, and passing at the same time - they adopt all sorts of positions, postures, and stances to get the job done. It would be unrealistic to expect Walsh to be 'upright' in that play. He's moving, and doing a lot of things at once. Again - from the moment he plants his right foot, to the moment he gets hit, his head doesn't actually get any closer to the ground. He was always going to get knocked out.
You obviously are an office worker, when your feet are at 45 deg to the ground, gravity takes over your upper body and you start falling. Also the match review committee designated it a carless high, which means no intention....... so the experts disagree with you.
@@shanerorko8076 And yet he was still sent off and is facing a month on the sideline. Have you ever disagreed with the 'experts' before? Do they get it right 100% of the time? Give me a break - like that means anything. Check the tape yourself - use the > key to go frame by frame. You will clearly see from the moment Walsh's right foot is planted solid to the point of impact, his head doesn't get any closer to the ground.
Wake up wingy, thats a send off all day every day. Doesn't matter if it's 'accidental', you smacked someone in the head with your shoulder...red card mate.. wake up
i watched the replay over and over and over and over he purposely did it watch it . Joseph hit the speed and line it up with a shoulder hit or head high ive done it in junior and senior rugby league local footy and even backyard footy heaps of time on smaller players smaller than me and its been done to me by bigger players . even my sister seen it and shes hearing impaired ,not blind
theirs no doubt Reece was targeted , Well done REF welldone NRL judges well done send him off forever BANNED
So if you know the play as well as Graham described then you as the defender could adjust the height at which you choose to tackle before going in
Man could have made a ball and all tackle, he chose to risk the biscuit and the biscuit broke.
It sux, but unfortunately that's how the cookie crumbles.
Why did that comment suddenly make me hungry?
Up and in from Penrith got RW out of the game for weeks- no send off. Let’s do it again in Origin. Watching RW evading the defence is special. Again the game is now robbed of RW for another 2 weeks.
People are forgetting that the Penrith game was a head clash, not a shoulder to the head
@@broncoscontent303I don’t think people are making that case. It’s more so about the fashion, jamming fast and tight. This desperation to get to one of the most evasive players I have ever seen, panics defenders and leads to recklessness. May and Suaalii, although in different circumstances, were both reckless and careless. I believe the reason May didn’t get 10 or a send off was because he got injured himself.
The number of Ex players, so called expert commentators, and podcasters who don't understand that it is IRRELEVANT if it is INTENTIONAL or not
Sua'ali'i was trying to put a big shot on Walsh but got it wrong! If you make excuses for these types of cases and only give players 10 min in the bin, then it would become a reasonable option for all teams to do it. Why not wipe out the biggest danger threat from the other team, as well as make them play the rest of the game a player down on the bench. Then we can play tough for 10 minutes and have a full side for the rest of the game. Sorry, got to have appropriate consequences for actions.
If the act Suaalii did (irrespective of intent) is made to be only a sin bin, you will get teams bringing in a heavy hitter to "take out" opposition superstars and the offending team training to be down to 12 men for 10 minutes and then play against a less talented team after the man comes back from the sin bin in a 13 on 13 contest.
It was an intentional shot if you look again at the video replay. The ball was offloaded then, Reech was slipped simultaneously. While slipped Suaalii lowered his body and shoulder charged Reech. The send off was the right call.
NSW had a game plan of negativity from the get go - attacking Walsh was part of it - the young NSW player was doing what he was told - blame the NSW coaches.
To stop the play they need more players. Also Crichton stopped almost everything without taking anybodies head off.
I think they conveniently forget the shoulder charge is intentional.
It Was May that smashed his face in !!!
Walsh and May both tried to avoid head contact, it is why May's chin hit Walsh on the cheek. Two super fit athletes running flat out ......
There is no way that sua'ali wasn't coached to do that. Why all the excuses. He did what he was told to do, and it didn't pay off. Next time, Maguire shouldn't coach that.
Amen brother or sister that is so so true like Mark geyer days man he was paid to target THE KING WALLY LEWIS and failed hah ha
@russellross8723 it's been part of their game for Lockyer, Thurston, and now Walsh, and it clearly doesn't pay off, but NSW stick with it. Time for a smarter game plan.
I know right 😊 thanks time for a new game I lost count how many times The legendary JT. Got hit hard just kicking and doing his job did he complain , but Joseph's tackle and such a young age Was taken as targeted ,,, go qld
😂😂😂
A number of ex player from NSW have admitted they were told to take a player out. They play with hatred where as Qld players play to their abilities.
Given what we know about CTE and the more we find out, the worse it gets, the NRL don't have any other decision they can make (otherwise they will be sued down the track). Up and in defence is fine, but you've got to be trying to hit under the ball these days - even a front on tackle at the ball/top of the chest often will slip up to and hit the head (and risk a send off), but when you're trying to jam a guy on a sweep play and you're trying to hit the ball, it will go wrong more often than not. Plus, and this hasn't been mentioned anywhere near enough, it was a shoulder charge every day of the week - the arms didn't even start to half-heartedly wrap until his shoulder had caught Reece across the chin. Shoulder charge to a legal target area is a sin bin, to the head (regardless of intent) is a send off every day of the week.
100% right, it’s bloody simple stuff
I'm nsw but send off every day.i thought he should got 7 to 8
According to wings logic the height difference should mean that if Reece was falling, which he actually was not, suali should of missed him completely given the height difference, wing is a former rooster remember
How can you compare the young send off to last night? Young connected with a swinging arm and sualii connected in a tackling action with the shoulder
Both hits to the head, coming in on a fullback.
It is a send off for all games so you can’t let the rules change for origin or head hunting might be an excuse. Queensland were penalised by losing one of their best players so you need to show the the rules have meaning.
The ref and bunker would have been roasted by people either way. Game would have been closer with just a sin bin but QLD did plenty of damage in the first 10 minutes Joseph was off anyway
Banger show. Very informative
Craig wing breaks things down very efficiently. Articulate and Intellectual bring him on more Jimmy
I agree but to say that Suaalii was on his feet for the tackle is just false
Showing his colours here. Sualii being nsw and roosters oh same as craig. Muppet
And handsome
Wing might need a CTE assessment after him saying a penalty only🥴
15 minutes in and hes a certified idiot. “Deal with illegal tackles when you come to it”… thats literally what they did.
Man gotta love how clear Dylan is at communicating his thoughts!! UP THE WAHS💚💙❤️🤪
3:26 In years to come this will go down in folklore as the Suaali series....
He didn't pass the hia test, he passed the scat test, which just means he is safe from extended time off.
Saying it was an accident is not an argument. Saying he was falling is not a defense. If that was intentional then Joe is suspended for the rest of the year or the rest of his life. The fact is he ended another players origin game (and every origin game is precious) within 10min from dangerous contact to the head. Walsh is also out for his next club game too.
And wouldn’t the first thing you do after the game is check in to see if Walsh is okay? And to say sorry for ending your game inside 10mins.
The speed Walsh plays at means the margin for error for defenders is microseconds. However, when a player falls into a shoulder why didn't they examine that a bit more.
It was clear Walsh lost his footing in the pass and Suaali'i kept his trajectory - flying in at normal chest height.
But the rules are the rules, and it is hard for the ref to get a good rap either way he adjudicates.
If Klein hadn't sent Suaali'i I think Queensland still would have won. Better players and tactics all-round.
Sending the player ruins the spectacle though.
Why not send the player for 20 minutes and they can't return. After 20 minutes, a substitution comes on. After the match give the offending player penalties and sanctions etc.
Walsh always passes low and is much shorter that Sualii. If you actually watch the hit he loses his feet right before impact and the slip barely impacts his height at all.
@@Legalpigeon Do think players know he's the shortest player on the field and know to adjust their defense/attack? Genuine question.
@@MowMowMowDiittyMow they bloody well should with the amount of game management they get drilled with in training camp.
@@MowMowMowDiittyMow if they don't then they're negligent. Onus is always on the defender. Welcome to the NRL.
What complete rot
Fair enough Jimmy, send him off if that's what they need to do but bring on the 18th man to keep it a contest for the fans.
I think really the only way to make sense of this situation and the same thing happening moving forward is around the effort that the defending player makes to lower the target. In this instance, Suaalii came at it with a perfect scenario approach which to me is surprising given the fact that it’s stated the height difference between the two players. He didn’t seem to make an attempt to lower his target which to me is why it is a send off. If you can complete your duty of care by aiming low and you still hit the head due to a slip etc, that’s where it should be 10 in the bin rather than a send off (in a realistic scenario).
on the tackle, even though its partly accidental the send off was fair. Qld lose Walsh and Joey gets 10mins? nah bro your gone. Tough luck. Aim and shoot don't close your eyes.
The hit was deliberate and pre-ordained, he missed him on the first attempt, this was not a spur of the moment decision. even if it hit his chest first it would have come up to the chin / head area, this was a deliberate tactic to take out a designated player, this is pre 1980's stuff that the games overlords have been gradually trying to eliminate for over 25 years, ex-players sometimes romanticise past eras as real rugby league but modern head trauma awareness and sports science demands protection for players, this exposes the game to huge legal penalties and compensation and most mums and dads will not let their kids play that game anymore, the fact that he recovered so far apparently fairly well is irrelevant as he may just as easily ended up in a wheelchair for life, the NSW player is not unknown to the judiciary for the same action previously, financial penalties and extended suspensions are the only thing that forces clubs and players to change, failure to penalise the player at that time with the send-off penalty sends a message that it will still be tolerated at certain representative levels which is completely unacceptable, the referee is very experienced and he knows the difference between accidental contact and deliberate attempts to maim a marked potentially game deciding talent the opposition has, Wally this was definitely pure stupidity.
if you think he saw Walsh and thought to himself, im going to hit this bloke in the face, your dull. thats what deliberate means. l
Thing is the ref can't rule on intent. He can only rule on
1. Tackle to head
2. Carelessness
3. Forceful
Shoulder charge is ruled out as arms were made in an attempt.
So it comes down to the first 3. The shoulder didn't knock Walsh out it was the ground whiplash. Replays show this.
So the optics of him getting knocked out and him falling into the tackle makes the severity or "forceful" worse than is.
So the ref should have discussed with the TMO and broke it down factoring in Walsh falling and the ground.
Sin bin and report should have been the call. Not send off.
The shoulder leading had the arm straight down. That is a shoulder charge.
Suali was unlucky,as was Walsh. Still a send off
Was a shoulder charge. The right arm was vertical and his body was braced for the impact on the shoulder. There was no attempt to grab his with that arm.
That's not what was ruled by Klein🤦♂️ Shoulder charge was cleared. It was contact to head. Forceful is the reason why he was not a penalty or sin bin and escalated to a send-off.
if that was a sin bin, like James brings up, it would have escalated in chaos, there would have been several more sin bins....
Accidental or not, Joseph intended to do a legal take and it went wrong entirely... Forceful contact to the head... If that isn't a send off, what is.. seriously... how much worse of contact to the head does it need to be for a send off ?
@DarkNess24567 Accident, intent doesn't matter. They are not in the rules or law.
1. Contact to head
2. Careless
3. Forceful
These are what a determining factors. 3 is the judgement on what is "forceful".
If Walsh does not get knocked out is that considered Forceful and sent off or sin bin?
Does Walsh falling over give the optics that is was more Forceful than it really was?
Did the shoulder knock Walsh out or did the ground knock him out?
These are determining factors. Klein and TMO needed to thoroughly discuss this before deciding the outcome or consequence.
Players like Walsh are always dipping as they step, stop or pass. If you aim to tackle his shoulders you will risk getting his head!
Have you guys thought about getting a medic on the show to explain the head injury assessment? My understanding is that even passing the tests if you were out cold or having a tonic posture on the field (both in this case) a concussion is diagnosed and there can be no return to play. Helps knowing if you need to send them to hospital for a CT scan though.
Literally gobsmacked by people trying to argue it’s not a red card. By 2024 standards (which I hate) It’s a red card 100% of the time. The conversation is should we change the rules to stop it ruining games
Total sense. I was originally against the softening of the game about 3-4 years ago. But now have opposite view. It's the only way the game can survive.
I hate this term, but Craig Wing is victim blaming. The ref, by giving a send off, prevented Suallii getting knocked out by 5 Queenslanders.
Suaali' had better learn to tackle better when he goes to Rugby Union where the responsibility to avoid the head is totally on the tackler regardless. It was a send off every day of the week.
The King... Why i watch SOO... He took on NSW with 11 men.
Was the try scorer in front of the kick?
Na no accident, other than Walsh being lower than usual. He was leading with his shoulder, he meant to hit him hard, you go in like that and get it wrong, that's the risk you take.
Agreed except 18th man is not activated , bench player comes on to make is 13 but they play from 16 total
This was hard to listen to. Jam asking highly intelligent nuanced questions about the risk assessment of false positives, false negatives - lesser of two evils - and having Wally and Wing not willing to engage in intelligent debate was annoying AF.
Jam you’re an absolute legend. I love your mind - you attack a problem willing to weigh pros and cons is a godsend
I would like to see a 20min sinbin, to be included as part of a referees options. A quarter of a game can be punishment for a team. 10.mins is not enough. But a game can be a dead rubber after a send off. But malice intent deserves a send off.
Facts are, not only were the NSW team punished for Joeys high shot for 70 odf min, the 80 odd thousand blues fans that travelled, payed for tickets were affected, and veiwing within Nsw was affected.
That send off was overkill and robbed thousands of watching 26 of our best statesman go at it.
10 would have done, and a 4 week or whatever ban.
To mamy variables were affected by that send off.
And to anyone saying boo hoo poor Reece got hit high, if that was Nicho, or Teddy you'd all be jacking each other off ..
The collision is why we watch the game.......isnt it??
If you watch for this type of collision go watch UFC. This is not rugby league and it hasn't been for a long time.
We shouldn't be endangering the players because NSW fans gave up on the whole series after 7 minutes.
He still leads with his shoulder so he made that choice got what he deserved
Is Hynes a better 6? He seems built for a running/attacking 5/8 role.
Hopefully we don't get to find out at origin level. He had a stinker. Both 6 & 7 need replacing. None of them took control.
First origin game, family at the game, I doubt he intended to hit the head but he did and that makes it a send off.
No doubt there will be a future incidents that demand a send off, the precedent has been set.
This was a great podcast thanks to Graham and Wing and Lewis because Reece was falling it was purely and accident 10mins would of been sufficient they passed his HIA imagine?
Jimmy had a good idea that the offender can't return to the field but after 10 mins NSW could use a reserve but not the 18th man. You are left a reserve short for the rest of the game. I think if Walsh is on the field the whole game 13 on 13 QLD win by more points anyway😉✌🍻
I agree with replacing a red carded player after 10 mins. Also the Rugby Union approach of sending a player to the sin bin and having the incident reviewed to see if it's worthy of a red card has some merit.
Can we not have a replaceable send off? In this scenario, Su'ali'i is off for the game (as is Walsh). After 10 minutes NSW can put a 13th back on but Sua can take no further part. QLD get 18th man activated. NSW are down to 16.
I can't believe the apologising about Sua'ali. He was clearly on a mission to hurt Walsh, even though he missed his intended target. A send off every day- and I would say the same if it was a NSW player hit. Hopefully the send-off will prevent it happening again.
People are complaining about how could he have tackled instead .... just look at Liam Martin rushing forward and creating textbook tackles with alot of force.
Wally you disappoint. The question was asked "what is he supposed to do?" Not a single comment on Suallii's poor technique. Your aim up high you run the risk. Ironic this is Ladbrokes sponsored. He placed his bet and lost. Won't be his first time unless he learns aim up lower. 100% a send off.
State of origin should be a seperate system for suspension,dont penalise the clubs that have lent these players for a totally different game from club football.Clubs must be sick of these extra games ruining there season through suspension 🤷♂️
😢 what about the targeted player taken out of club games thru foul play. Reece has lost 8 games already because of illegal play by the opposition. He is tough to keep putting himself in the position to get targeted every game
A send off at the beginning of the game is game over, but if it happens at the end of the game there's still hope. So it's an inconsistent punishment, for the same offence. That's not fair to fans or good for the game. Here's a solution: Suaali'i does a head high meaning Walsh is out of the game. So then, QLD get to choose a player to remove from the NSW team for the remainder of the game, they can choose Suaali'i or someone else. That means if Walsh is QLDs best player, QLD get to eject NSW best player. That's makes it unappealing for a coach to tell players to "sweep the leg" i.e. do an illegal tackle to hurt a player on purpose just to get rid of them. So that's that part sorted. Then NSW have to play with a man down for 10mins, but can bring a player from the bench after that to being them back up to 13 players, but they'd be down to 3 on the bench for the remainder of the game. That would have been fair. QLD would lose Walsh for the game. NSW would lose their best player, and QLD would get a penalty and 10mins with an extra man on the field, and a whole game with an extra man on the bench. NSW would be at a disadvantage, but still a hope of winning, which is good for the game and the fans.
10 Min in the bin ? bullshit. We lost our most influential player. And major risk of permanent damage.
You cant claim "it was an accident" when he was totally reckless
it was 100% accidental. Take out the slip and its a tackle with perfect technique. The slip caused the head high, not the tackler. sin bin move on. Liam Martin did the exact same tackle on Hopgood but because there was no slip there was no high contact.
Being reckless means there was a lack of intention ie. an accident
Yes you can. Everyday people get into car accidents because they’ve driven recklessly, they didn’t set out with the intent to crash their car it was an accident. Avoidable accident does not equal intentional
@@chrismcmanus867 my point was that being an accident is not a defence because recklessness necessarily doesn't involve intent. So we agree.
@@sloppygoo again, my point is that the tackle was reckless, not intentional. So whether he had intent or not is irrelevant as he was reckless. So you can't use it being accidental as a defence.
How is Craig not open to other options for the defender? Thinking there is no other way for the defender to shut the play down. Easiest way for the player running up and in that fast to be safer for the attacker would be to get lower. They said if he didn’t slip would’ve got him in chest. Therefore if he targets his abdomen and he slips maybe he gets him in the chest
For illegal reckless tackle, if victim leaves the field so should the aggressor. Penalty given & play with 12 for ten minutes, after that then both teams continue on with 13 players. If victim returns to play later in the game so should the aggressor. Any second instance in the game by the original aggressor team then player sent off.
no disrespect, but your saying its all good to do foul plays. makes no sense, especially with the way cte is being highlighted
think it through. if that became the standard coaches would plan even more to take out high quality players with a 'sacrificial' enforcer. essentially an ice hockey goon brought on for that purpose, with a sub ready to take his place. it'd a glorified sin bin and a situation that can be deliberately gamed to no benefit of the sport.
@@Lorenzogino 💯
I have been critical of Ashley Klein in the past for times where he was too afraid to send players off the field for dangerous play. He should have sent Willie Mason to the sin-bin for punching Stuart Fielden in a test-match but he took the easy option and just put him on report. In 2021 he should have sent Latrell Mitchell off for his dangerous shot on Joseph Manu where he broke his cheekbone, but he didn't. In this game he did the right thing. Yes it may have ruined what could have been a great contest but as the referee you can't allow that to spook you. Sua'ali'i got it wrong, the onus was on him. I feel bad for him because he was just trying to put on a big hit, but he got it all wrong. Queensland lost Walsh as a result, Sua'ali'i had to go, and I commend Klein for not being swayed by the fact that it would have a huge impact on the contest.
The send off was fair but if anything should change, maybe if a ref deems the contact to not be intentional, then that team is allowed to engage the 18th man?
Where were the arms? How can none of these experts see that? No arms, leading with the shoulder, pay the price.
10 mins penalty for the other player has to leave the whole entire game is ridiculous argument this guy is a clown! If he is in Reece’s shoes you wouldn't agree! What a clown!!!🤡🤡🤡
Protect the head shocking tackle send off any day
To solve this problem maybe just maybe, instead of sending off a player you sin bin them for 10mins and for those that should be send off, sin bin them for 20mins. That might work.
Those that should be sent off should be sent off. That is why a send-off exists because sometimes players make a bad decision. Yeah, it's in the moment, but that is too bad. You chose the action.
@happytoday333 I get what you're saying, it wouldn't be the first rule to be changed.
Yer tuff for both players. Dont rekon its joes nature to do an tall man. Maybe like union after 20 nother guy so games still somewhat competitive. Cheers
"probably 10 in the bin" 😅
Weather the send off was justified or not, is irrelevant to the fact that Rugby League doesn't work 12 v 13 anything over 15 minuets, especially at rep level.
In the case of origin Kline might as well have blown full time at the send off, that is how significant that is.
So, one minute, Wingy and Wally are saying no one goes out their with intent to take people out. Then, when, James suggests the send-off, but after 10 minutes, you can bring in a substitute, they say, but then people will pick an expendable player purely to target the opponents best player. So, which is it? Do players intentionally target or do they not?
Let the legends talk they make the most sense trying to outlaw accidents is like asking for tag footy lol your crazy
The level of perfection is right there and you guys just trying to ignore it. The send off is good end of story
You can't say it's an accident therefore only 10 mins in the bin, so what happens if this happens in the next game and they break someone's face, is it still only an accident? Is it still only 10 mins? Or is it now a send off due to the injury? Any head high collison should be a send off.
My suggestion is NSW should have played with 16 players with Joseph off permanently. Perhaps with 10min with 12