All I remember from that matchup was mover saying “You have a WSO, that’s bullshit!” Ahahah I’m accepting that as him admitting family model Eagles are the better airplane 😎
wish you'd do more content like this! really cool and fascinating. What improvements would need to happen in DCS / combat sims so you'd consider flying more often? Haptic feedback so you get a feel for things like speed, G, flow separation? cheers
Viper pulling 30° alpha? Does DCS even attempt to simulate different aircraft flight models and control systems? Watching you guys really shines a light on the poor fidelity of these sims.. (but that's part of what makes this channel so great -- keep up the great content, guys)!
DCS is a video game primarily aimed at people with no formal education or experience in the topic. If it were to replicate everything accurately to real life, average laypeople wouldn't be able to play it at all. It's entertaining enough for everyday folks, fighter pilots (or real pilots in general) tend not to like it too much but at some point you have to balance realism and other considerations, such as the time and resources required to implement certain aspects, the sensitive or ITAR restricted nature of data or the amount of depth it would bring that would raise the barrier of entry too high.
@@appa609 Seems likely. There is a manual pitch-override switch on the left-hand side panel but it not something you could ever press and hold under high G.. but I think Hornet stick has a paddle to override the AOA limiter? If so, they probably mapped that MPO switch to the paddle on the Hornet stick.
@@agostonbazmajer1100 Yeah .. I'm a Falcon BMS guy -- but it has all those problems you outline. Super high barrier to entry and, while the Viper is high fidelity, they can't invest to that level of depth for all the other aircraft.. or any other aircraft, really.. heck BMS doesn't even model the whole range of F-16 variants now (the new F-16V).
I'm actually going to go out on a limb here and say the Jet's AoA is not "True" AoA and that's what DCS's API reports to programs like TacView. When I say "True" AoA, I'm referring to the concept of "Units" of AoA vs Absolute Angle "AoA". Like the F-14, "Units" of AoA is not the same as degrees because the "Units" are measured relative to the airframe's aerodynamics and not the true path vs wing angle. Only way to know for sure is for Gonky to go back to the same pit he flew the F-16 in, and watch the AoA indicator in the cockpit.
Great stuff, I’d love to see you guys in airframes that you have no experience with, to eliminate the juxtaposition between reality and the sim. Another comment that comes up a lot on the DCS Viper that I’ve heard you guys make is how badly it bleeds airspeed with even a little alpha. A lot of players have been saying this for a while, also based on SME feedback. It frankly never made sense compared to the other jets, as the degree of difference is quite stark…especially given how small of a wing the aircraft has, it doesn’t seem to logically follow that there’s even enough surface area to suffer that much induced drag (compared to other aircraft).
I'm sure there are issues in all modules and all flight regimes, but it's important to note that the F-16 DOES match it's published E-M charts. I helped an F-16C guy in the 107th test it out the other day and it was within a tenth of a G and his performance capabilities. Does that mean the F-16 flight model is perfect? No. I'm guessing there are issues with the GE-F110 programming which has killed some of the ability to add and maintain energy in a fight. Thing is, I think people honestly believe the F-16C can pull 9G at 25k feet fully loaded and the charts just don't support that. A clean F-16C big mouth GE F110-129 is going to have huge parts of the flight regime where it cannot sustain 9G or max rate when loaded. It's not surprising... the F-16C has tiny ass wings... like legitimately the size of the STABILATORS on the F-14...
How much could you see comfortably when looking backward to your 6 o'clock in real life in Viper (let's assume no extreme G's involved, just relaxed flight)? How does it compares to playing in VR? I feel reasonably fit person and yet in VR can't see much on my 6 when dogfighting (it feels difficult to see my tail at all). I was wondering how it relates to wearing jetfighter helmet and overall sitting position in Viper. Thank you.
could you compare the flight characteristics of some DCS Modules like the 16 to the real life counterpart? Of cause only the stuff you are allowed to talk about. The is a lot of confusion about the performace of some modules. or a review of DCS in generals would be very interesting.
I'd guess you are going to get a hard "No" given the sensitive nature of aircraft performance and the intentional changing of performance characteristics by ED to not run afoul of those legal minefields.
I believe he was pulling more AoA than they thought a real F-16 would be able to - which is probably due to the DCS F-16's still WIP flight model, but Gonky made it into a joke saying the jet gained super powers because they put him (a navy pilot) in the F-16 (an air force jet).
This is the next step in sim realism already out. They are integrating it with DCS now. ruclips.net/video/F4yKM_FgMOE/видео.html Although I like the cockpit from these guys better, so just need the Varjo Mixed Reality tech from the first video with this cockpit ruclips.net/video/FJm6JB3yf8U/видео.html You can make put this cockpit on a moveable platform so you get the motions too.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Mover over here trying to Cobra the Hornet.
I'm really digging these videos. Informative and entertaining.
That was super cool. Got the "I want to be a fighter pilot" itch again LOL
All I remember from that matchup was mover saying “You have a WSO, that’s bullshit!” Ahahah
I’m accepting that as him admitting family model Eagles are the better airplane 😎
wish you'd do more content like this! really cool and fascinating. What improvements would need to happen in DCS / combat sims so you'd consider flying more often? Haptic feedback so you get a feel for things like speed, G, flow separation? cheers
Another gem of a video! Thank you both!!!
Looking forward to watching the tournament! The "All-Star" panel last year gave great commentary.
CO: Any violations?
The drivers: *It depends*
Great video. Mover v Gonky is always a win for the audience
Gonky was apparently born with a high alpha superpower.
Wonderful you two. Thanks for doing this.
I cannot find "wings" in Pensacola on a web search. Could you please post a link? I'd love to see their sims.
That was entertaining. Thanks guys lookin forward to the tournament
Have you ever done any carrier op videos? That would be cool
Viper pulling 30° alpha? Does DCS even attempt to simulate different aircraft flight models and control systems? Watching you guys really shines a light on the poor fidelity of these sims.. (but that's part of what makes this channel so great -- keep up the great content, guys)!
I'm guessing there was some switch in gonky's fancy cockpit that controls fcs override and was continuously on
DCS is a video game primarily aimed at people with no formal education or experience in the topic. If it were to replicate everything accurately to real life, average laypeople wouldn't be able to play it at all. It's entertaining enough for everyday folks, fighter pilots (or real pilots in general) tend not to like it too much but at some point you have to balance realism and other considerations, such as the time and resources required to implement certain aspects, the sensitive or ITAR restricted nature of data or the amount of depth it would bring that would raise the barrier of entry too high.
@@appa609 Seems likely. There is a manual pitch-override switch on the left-hand side panel but it not something you could ever press and hold under high G.. but I think Hornet stick has a paddle to override the AOA limiter? If so, they probably mapped that MPO switch to the paddle on the Hornet stick.
@@agostonbazmajer1100 Yeah .. I'm a Falcon BMS guy -- but it has all those problems you outline. Super high barrier to entry and, while the Viper is high fidelity, they can't invest to that level of depth for all the other aircraft.. or any other aircraft, really.. heck BMS doesn't even model the whole range of F-16 variants now (the new F-16V).
I'm actually going to go out on a limb here and say the Jet's AoA is not "True" AoA and that's what DCS's API reports to programs like TacView. When I say "True" AoA, I'm referring to the concept of "Units" of AoA vs Absolute Angle "AoA". Like the F-14, "Units" of AoA is not the same as degrees because the "Units" are measured relative to the airframe's aerodynamics and not the true path vs wing angle.
Only way to know for sure is for Gonky to go back to the same pit he flew the F-16 in, and watch the AoA indicator in the cockpit.
Great stuff, I’d love to see you guys in airframes that you have no experience with, to eliminate the juxtaposition between reality and the sim.
Another comment that comes up a lot on the DCS Viper that I’ve heard you guys make is how badly it bleeds airspeed with even a little alpha. A lot of players have been saying this for a while, also based on SME feedback. It frankly never made sense compared to the other jets, as the degree of difference is quite stark…especially given how small of a wing the aircraft has, it doesn’t seem to logically follow that there’s even enough surface area to suffer that much induced drag (compared to other aircraft).
Agreed
@@Mobius118 In fact, small wing causes more induced drag than a big one, because you need more alpha to turn.
I'm sure there are issues in all modules and all flight regimes, but it's important to note that the F-16 DOES match it's published E-M charts. I helped an F-16C guy in the 107th test it out the other day and it was within a tenth of a G and his performance capabilities. Does that mean the F-16 flight model is perfect? No. I'm guessing there are issues with the GE-F110 programming which has killed some of the ability to add and maintain energy in a fight.
Thing is, I think people honestly believe the F-16C can pull 9G at 25k feet fully loaded and the charts just don't support that. A clean F-16C big mouth GE F110-129 is going to have huge parts of the flight regime where it cannot sustain 9G or max rate when loaded. It's not surprising... the F-16C has tiny ass wings... like legitimately the size of the STABILATORS on the F-14...
Gonky looks like he partied hard last night and doing all he can to keep his eyes open
Can't wait for the Fight for Honor tournament this year, last year's was awesome. Any plans to bring back Oral and/or Special for the commentary?
Yup
DCS forum blowing up after this.
I think tacview should be used as an visual aid for debriefings. The French do.
Don’t they use ACMI at Red Flag?
"Don't shoot until their airplane fills your windscreen" wasn't a quote from Richthofen, it was from Eric Hartman.
Love the commentary! Where's the peanut gallery located so I can bring the fresh roasted ones and enjoy the live stuff? :D
Gonky seems absolutely thrilled.
Gonky looks frustrated lol
How much could you see comfortably when looking backward to your 6 o'clock in real life in Viper (let's assume no extreme G's involved, just relaxed flight)? How does it compares to playing in VR? I feel reasonably fit person and yet in VR can't see much on my 6 when dogfighting (it feels difficult to see my tail at all). I was wondering how it relates to wearing jetfighter helmet and overall sitting position in Viper. Thank you.
Wait, What did the Red Baron say about holding fire until...? @ Mover/ Gonky ?
...Beuller?!
Very cool guys! Thanks so much :)
Does anyone know what software he is using to play back the Track? Is that the normal replay option? I am new to DCS.
could you compare the flight characteristics of some DCS Modules like the 16 to the real life counterpart? Of cause only the stuff you are allowed to talk about. The is a lot of confusion about the performace of some modules.
or a review of DCS in generals would be very interesting.
I'd guess you are going to get a hard "No" given the sensitive nature of aircraft performance and the intentional changing of performance characteristics by ED to not run afoul of those legal minefields.
They took the blue from the sky and a pretty girls eye and a touch of Old Glory's hue........Go Air Force!
CW off topic. I saw prices on used C7 ZR-1. Your car is worth $200k. Congrats. That is a hell of a car. Very cool.
Interesting to hear about NEGATIVE G.
Actually Gen (ret.) Atighechi did also the same thing to force an Iraqi Mig-23 to overshoot his F-4 Phantom!
Wings is also really good for Student Naval Aviators if you want more T-6 or T-38 time!
It’s good to see two professionals doing their thing.
After that second engagement on the second merge it suddenly hit me how fighter pilots keep drawing phallic symbols in the air.
What's the floor?? 50'??
Mover are you going to watch the Battle of Midway in CoD Vanguard? Nobody was wearing a parachute.
Plot twist: Gonky was in MPO all the time.
I know one thing - if I ran into either of these guys on GS server, I'm gonna die!
Can someone please explain the joke Gonky made when he said "this is what happens when you give a Navy guy an Air Force jet" ?
navy pilots are much more lax with rules
@@appa609 What kind? Does the Air Force kind of limit the way pilots are allowed to fly an aircraft while the navy doesn't?
I believe he was pulling more AoA than they thought a real F-16 would be able to - which is probably due to the DCS F-16's still WIP flight model, but Gonky made it into a joke saying the jet gained super powers because they put him (a navy pilot) in the F-16 (an air force jet).
Hi Mover i am playing carrier landing hd f-14 f-18 it's mini dcs on iOS only
😎😎
This is the next step in sim realism already out. They are integrating it with DCS now. ruclips.net/video/F4yKM_FgMOE/видео.html Although I like the cockpit from these guys better, so just need the Varjo Mixed Reality tech from the first video with this cockpit ruclips.net/video/FJm6JB3yf8U/видео.html You can make put this cockpit on a moveable platform so you get the motions too.
Its clear from your commets that the F-16 is underpreforming... Maybe you can help the devs getit right 😁 @C.W.Lemoine
Fun stuff! Too bad you did not have a polaroid camera to record the international "inverted" incident.