Yeah, also Henry Sagerman, whose name was on that paper. (Definitely check out his RUclips if you love math stuff). I suggested all these guys when they first mentioned looking at other shapes for dice. It would have been an amazing collaboration for Diceapaloosa.
Bruh you must, MUST, sell the Gyroids on the website. Mark um up by $5 or something, but you MUST keep selling them. You can't let these mathematical marvels vanish into the ether! Please, I beg of you!!!!!
I agree ❤. Also, those big versions would make amazing learning toys for toddlers and kids. Heck I'd buy them for myself lol. Round the edges and make them out of foam. Give each one a specific background color that matches with its corresponding number color. Make the color and number scheme go from the color spectrum, 1 is red, and so on.
FINE!!! Stop bullying me with Jason being charming as hell as he completely nerds out about dice shapes... I backed Diceapoolza, I want those gyroid's.
It's a manipulative marketing tactic. They create false scarcity by making them a "limited time" thing and that makes people rush to buy it so they won't miss out. Usually making a product takes time, effort, and involves some risk that it might not sell. This method and marketing also removes the risk of not selling well and puts it onto the consumer. Now instead of them risking excess stock that won't get sold as easily, they trick people into buying them out of fear and put the risk on them of regretting their purchase. I believe this is a immoral and wrong method to market your products, especially if you claim to care about your customers. Sadly I can't say it is at all uncommon right now. You see everyone has a makeship product, a youtooz, or some other limited time items. These are made with underpaid labor overseas with horrible quality control but they sell out exclusively because they create false scarcity. They sow anxiety and FOMO to convince you to buy a garbage product at a premium price.
Dear Wyrmwood: I'm so glad you can't patent basic mathematic constructs, because the idea of restricting your Gyroid dice to the Kickstarter is the dumbest idea I've ever heard and a thousand etsy sellers will fill in the production gaps.
Thank you for making this! I've been waiting for more info on Gyroids, and you guys did not disappoint. I finished this video and went straight to the Kickstarter to back!
14:28 So the idea about this is cool and it is a clever way to do this in order to make the most fair die for rolling *averages*. This might not be the most fair numbering though. I'm thinking of the particular ways casino dice are made for example, they optimize not for rolling the average the most, but for rolling every side equally often (by specifically making the pips deeper or shallower so the weight distribution stays the same). What I mean by this is in your variant, you can end up with a die that heavily favours a certain cluster of numbers and almost never rolls the opposite side. This die would be "fair" in a sense that it will roll the average (10,5 for a D20) very well, but it is not fair in a sense through which some numbers are less favoured as they're surrounded by single digits, making that side of the die heavier (less engraving = less material gone). This basically comes down to what your definition of a "fair die" is. In your case it's "a fair die rolls average", while I think that the more conventional definition is "a fair die rolls every face the same amount of times". This is te whole "regular D20" vs. "Spindown D20" debate basically
Maybe you missed the whole "same sum of numbers surrounding any given side/vertex" part. But that's the idea, to never have a number that is surrounded by single digits. Sure you're not getting into absolutely perfect weight distribution, but that would take a lot of time and investment to ensure.
@@kennyvanvliet7569 Please re-read what I wrote. And yes, that this doesn't make for a perfect weight distribution is exactly the issue I was talking about. This arrangement optimizes for maufacturing defects and to have the die roll on average. That is not the conventional definition of a "fair die" though as that optimizes for every face getting rolled an equal amount of times. Those are two different things
Thank you for bringing that up, but I think that considering the cheaper classic dice, makers probably don't have that much care with weight distribution. If one is willing to pay more, then they should absolutely have your argument in mind when choosing!
The G4 is useful, but I'd get all the rest confused for each other. I don't want to have to inspect my dice to figure out which one is which, I'm just grabbing for a few to roll.
@@WyrmLyfe I've grabbed D20's thinking they were D12's before and D12's thinking they were d20's before. Same is true of D8's and D10's. Maybe I'm wrong here but it looks like this would happen even more often with these gyroid dice. Of course I still like the idea but I prefer to buy things and get them right away once they become available online. I hope you change your mind with this one and continue to produce more and more dice with these new shapes and sell them at our website because I like them even if they are harder to identify.
*waves at Jason from the rabbit hole* I dove down here a few decades ago and wondered why nobody came out with these dice back in the 80s. Especially when I saw my first 30-sider (actually numbered 01-30) that we used to randomize what first level Mage spells a Magic User could access.
Right. Of the Platonic solids, the 6 sided and 8 sided dice roll best. The 12 sided and 20 sided tend to roll too far unless stopped. And the 4 sided just doesn't roll. Significantly, dice roll less when the edges are sharp, and more when the edges are rounded. Cube and octahedron roll well regardless, tetrahedron doesn't, no matter what. Dodecahedrons and icosahedrons need sharp edges. Once the edges become rounded, they roll too far.
WHY NOT MAKE THEM AVILBLE POST KICKSTARTER????? like, I get it, trying to build hype, but if this'll take of you'd literally have a monopoly and something that makes you completely uniqe (at least until other dice makers catch up) I understand not commiting to it as, yeah, you have no idea how it'll go and it might follow in the way of the high variance dice, but to straight up shut it down is closing the door on what can be a major opportunity imo
At least part of the reason is marketing... FOMO is a powerful Kickstarter booster, and they're still actively promoting the Kickstarter... if the Kickstarter is a huge success and they're seeing a big market for it, I wouldn't be surprised if we see gyroid dice continue longer term... or at least show up as part of future crowdfunding campaigns. As much as I hate to say it, having "exclusive dice designs" that only become available during crowdfunded campaigns is probably a good way to squeeze a little extra engagement out of the campaign... a year from now I still probably won't be in the market for an MGT, but if I wind up needing more G4 dice and the only way to get them is the next MGT campaign, I'd probably back at the cheap level to be able to get those dice. Plus, if they introduce different designs each time, they'll lure the dice goblins back repeatedly. I can talk myself out of buying a second set of dice in this campaign by choosing my favorite, but will I be able to do the same a year from now when they're offering something I might like MORE than the design I already have?
As a recently graduated college student in geology, coccolithophores are ancient, historic, and microscopic algae found on the seafloor. Felt like this is a review relearning dodecahedron and hexahedrons all over again. As a geologist, I approve, Im in the campaign and sold. These gyroids will be the star of my campaigns
Do we want dice to roll a long distance? Because the closer a die is to a sphere the more it rolls but also the more carefully it needs to be made so there's no bias. A D4 on the other hand can be quite badly made and still work.
I just managed to get enough money for floor seats thanks to a gallery downtown selling one of my pieces! Glad to finally be a part of something Wyrmwood related. Now I just need to figure out which resin set to get. I’m considering both Rainbow Road and Sea Glass, but they all look good…
I initially backed this project on Kickstarter. Then cancelled my pledge. Why? Because the gyroid G10 dice they are proposing is numbered not with 0 to 9 digits (like standard non-gyroid D10 dice) but with 1 to 10 numbers. Which is kind of annoying when you try pairing a gyroid G100 dice with a gyroid G10 dice to generate a percentage because... according to the creators you then have to ADD the results of the two dice. Basically you have to learn and remember how to use this pair of dice because it's not working as we are all used to with a pair of one standard non-gyroid D100 and one standard non-gyroid D10 (that you're not adding as one is giving you the tens and the other the units). Examples with a G100 + G10 pair: 00 (on the G100) + 10 (on the G10) = 10... 00 + 6 = 6... 10 + 1 = 11... 90 + 10 = 100... etc. If it's something you can live with then by all means go ahead and get those. In terms of shapes (but IMHO not numbering for G10 dice) they are a great idea. And I have others dice I got from previous Wyrmwood KS campaigns and I'm really happy with the quality.
These are amazing and need to be sold ❤. Also, those big versions would make amazing learning toys for toddlers and kids. Heck I'd buy them for myself lol. Round the edges and make them out of foam. Give each one a specific background color that matches with its corresponding number color. Make the color and number scheme go from the color spectrum, 1 is red, and so on.
What about the weight distribution of the dice? I'm honestly surprised that wasn't mentioned as weighted dice are a real thing and imperfections in craftsmanship can cause even the best of shapes to roll far less than the desired average.
Numbering doesn't matter much if the shapes and weighting is perfect, and the rolling is fair - you need a uniform dendity material, you need to machine the numbers and fill them with material of the same density. And long rolling distance is BAD. The cube and octahedron are ideal. So your dice are not good for use unless something stops them from rolling off the table. And I have had list of dice go off the table.
My biggest concern was being able to differentiate between each die and I'm still not perfectly sold on the point made that each side is different. The G4 and the G10/G100, and the G8 is similar to the G20. Not exactly, but seem to be similar enough to still warrant concern. Either way, I may still be convinced to get a set because the idea is still really cool!
Same. But I took a look at the campaign and some of the resin dice sets have intentional color differences between the different die sizes. I think I'm going to go with a gyroid Sea Glass - maybe the faces will be enough, but worst case I should be able to pick them out by color after a while.
@@smith186 Yeah, I was thinking of getting a gyroid set in Rainbow Road specifically so they are each a different color. I also love the idea of this set because it reminds me of old D&D kits that had multicolored dice. :)
All the high faces need to have the different color. Idc if its the logo, but it looks bad when only some or one of the high numbers are a different color
The huge variance in roll distance seems like positive evidence for a highly randomized surface. It's variance in momentum loss shows that it is hitting sides and rolling edges at more random intervals. Whereas most of the 'standard' dice sat in clusters.
There are 4 60-sided Catalan solids, three of which have never, to my knowledge, been made as commercially available dice. All the d60s I own are deltoidal hexacontahedra, but there's also the triakis Icosahedron, pentakis dodecahedron, and pentagonal hexacontahedron. That the d20s are mathematically balanced is nice, but not looking to higher multiples of 20 feels like a missed opportunity. I think it's also worth noting that, since the icosahedron has 5 faces per vertex, and the average value for a D20 face is 10.5it's impossible for every vertex to have the same sum(the sum would need to be 52.5) and that mathematically balanced D20s instead have 6 vertices with a sum of 52 and 6 with a sum of 53.
I was about to comment the same, glad I saw your comment. All d60's I own are also deltoidal hexacontahedra. Not that big a fan of the 2 with triangular faces, the triakis icosahedron is not very well suited to be numbered with its thin triangles, and the pentakis dodecahedron feels in some way wonky to me. But it would be cool to see a pentagonal hexacontahedron. Especially if they were available in both chiralities. Sadly non of these polyhedra would fix the numbering issue, as they all have vertices of odd order. For a perfectly balanced numbering you would need to go up to a 120 sided disdyakis triacontahedron, having vertices of order 4, 6 and 10. Although, using these for a d20 numbering would be a bit overkill imho.
@@Pjotr1998 I'm not the biggest fan of the kis platonics(triakis tetrahedron excluded) either, especially since they are redundant to the deltoidal and pentagonal icositetra/hexacontahedra, but I still want a full set of Catalan dice if only for the sake of completion, even if I can't think of a good reason to have 3 distinct d12(I'm including the classic platonic version as well), 4/5 distinct d24, and 4/5 distinct d60. Then again, I also want a complete set of Archimedean dice even knowing they won't be fair, I'm just a massive geometry geek with a passion for polyhedra(and an addiction to alliteration).
I am pretty sure Lou Zocchi started this drive toward perfect accurate dice back in the 80's with GameScience dice. Glad to see another company taking a crack at this in the modern era.
Lou Zocchi is crazy he tested a d5 to make in perfectly fare die and has a single die that can roll every die in rpg games. The guy has contributed multiple titles to gaming. They need to do an interview with him because he is the OG dice guy.
Have you seen the Dice Lab's D4s of equal width with G2 smooth surfaces (Orbiform D4s)? - Make for extremely well-rolling D4s Would love these Gyroid Dice getting that treatment additionally to what you already did!
Too damn difficult to find the dice you actually need with the gyroids. Having some d4's might be cool .. but the others will just cause you to be looking for the right dice on your turn when initiative comes around.
Something to keep in mind is that a lot of people out there have trouble with color. You can always ink in some different colors yourself, tho. That's the easiest part of making dice.
Would be much more likely to buy these if one or more of the high faces have a different background color, or very strong textual highlighting. Since these are unfamiliar shapes, I'd like it to be easier to identify them if I'm actually going to use them. Otherwise I might just get a bunch of g4s and leave the rest.
Interesting. I guess the nerdier and more useful measure, as far as rolling goes, is the angle of the vertices, rather than the number or size of the faces
The issue I see for gyroid dice (outside of the d4 cuz screw that bare foot killer) is that it will be a pain to realize which dice I am holding unless they are in a labeled area.
shoutout to henry segerman! He makes dice. He makes weird dice of weird sizes and shapes. they are called the dice lab. speaking of, they could have done a 60 sided G20. They shouldn’t, the normal D20 rolls well enough, but they could have.
Yes, they don't have a direct backing level for it, but you can add them on in the backerkit after the campaign. That said, if you back a full set of dice, you're committing to getting a set of dice, you can't repurpose those funds to buy only g4 dice. For that reason, I backed the minimum amount and plan to buy a bunch of g4 in the backerkit later for extra funds.
Would Jason be willing to publish his information on the gyroid dice? Like, the intended dihedral angles and sizeing? I understand wanting to make them limited but establishing a standard would be invaluable. We could even call it the Wyrmwood standard. I would even like having a name for that more fair D20 mapping. Countdown dice is the only mapping that really has a name so it would be nice to ask "does this dice have the Wyrmwood number mapping?" Or if that feels like taking credit then give it a name pointing to that paper.
Yeah, especially if they don't intend on selling these in the future, it would sure be nice if they made the concepts available to the larger community.
1. I’m buying them. So no worries there. 2. How many sets … unsure. Honest question, and I’m writing this about 10 min in, but what is the point of a G6 when a D12 already exists. Does the G12 help out something more than just doing 1-6 twice on a D12?
I think Matt would point out that normal polyhedral dice have exactly the same statistical probability of rolling each number as these "gyroids". The roundness of a die, placement of the numbers, and roll distance have no discernible effect on its "fairness", assuming we're using a dice tower and not using loaded dice.
How does making the opposite face sum constant make the die fair? Seems to me if there's a bias toward the largest or smallest this maximises the harm.
@@VagabondTE - Apparently it is like what was on the screen. So the high face on the G100 is 90 and the low Is 00 - and the high on the G10 is 10 and the low is 1. This is so when doing normal rolls with the G10 it makes sense. And with percentage rolls you add it together (00+10 = 10 and 90 + 10 = 100) I don’t know what to think about it because it’s different from what I’m used to. But I guess it works and I’m not angry about it.
@@Jovi_97 Yes I understand Jason's method now. But the screen is still wrong. The screen says "High numbers: G10: 90 G100: 00". That's wrong no matter how you do it. Anyway, the conclusion that I've come to is that since they've changed the 0 to a 10, they should have also changed the double zero to a regular zero, or left it blank. That would reinforce their method.
@@VagabondTE - Oh yeah, I didn’t go back to check what they wrote on screen again, you’re right ^^ The double zero doesn’t bother me, but I do agree that it would make sense your way.
Развлечения
This episode would've been the perfect oportunity for a crossover with numberphile or standup maths
Yeah, also Henry Sagerman, whose name was on that paper. (Definitely check out his RUclips if you love math stuff). I suggested all these guys when they first mentioned looking at other shapes for dice. It would have been an amazing collaboration for Diceapaloosa.
Oh bless, had they done something with Matt from Standupmaths, I would be a lot poorer.
That last G12 roll was definitely a Parker Roll.
That would have been great
honestly an even better one would've been Henry Segerman from Dice Labs
Bruh you must, MUST, sell the Gyroids on the website. Mark um up by $5 or something, but you MUST keep selling them. You can't let these mathematical marvels vanish into the ether! Please, I beg of you!!!!!
Agreed I was looking forward to Christmas Money so I could buy more
I agree ❤.
Also, those big versions would make amazing learning toys for toddlers and kids. Heck I'd buy them for myself lol.
Round the edges and make them out of foam. Give each one a specific background color that matches with its corresponding number color.
Make the color and number scheme go from the color spectrum, 1 is red, and so on.
FINE!!! Stop bullying me with Jason being charming as hell as he completely nerds out about dice shapes... I backed Diceapoolza, I want those gyroid's.
15:02 "Gyroids aren't going to be avalible after this campaign"
BOO THIS MF FROM THE NOSE BLEEDS.
For real, this is so dumb. If they won't do it, though, I'm sure there are plenty of companies that'll pick up some of these designs
I'm interested in these gyroid dice but if I can't get them in the store I'm out. Personal preference.
This is some exceptional bollocks if, like me, RUclips suggested this video to you just hours after the campaign has already ended. Oh well.
It's a manipulative marketing tactic. They create false scarcity by making them a "limited time" thing and that makes people rush to buy it so they won't miss out. Usually making a product takes time, effort, and involves some risk that it might not sell. This method and marketing also removes the risk of not selling well and puts it onto the consumer. Now instead of them risking excess stock that won't get sold as easily, they trick people into buying them out of fear and put the risk on them of regretting their purchase.
I believe this is a immoral and wrong method to market your products, especially if you claim to care about your customers. Sadly I can't say it is at all uncommon right now. You see everyone has a makeship product, a youtooz, or some other limited time items. These are made with underpaid labor overseas with horrible quality control but they sell out exclusively because they create false scarcity. They sow anxiety and FOMO to convince you to buy a garbage product at a premium price.
@@SquishyTheBerries WyrmWood does make great products here in the US. I have the coffee gaming table and its the nicest table I have ever owned.
On this episode of Nerdapalooza. We talk about Gyroid dice.
Nerdiest episode ever. Loved it
Dear Wyrmwood: I'm so glad you can't patent basic mathematic constructs, because the idea of restricting your Gyroid dice to the Kickstarter is the dumbest idea I've ever heard and a thousand etsy sellers will fill in the production gaps.
I've been disappointed too many times by Kickstarter campaigns in the past. So I don't do them any more. If Etsy becomes an option I will go there.
Thank you for making this! I've been waiting for more info on Gyroids, and you guys did not disappoint. I finished this video and went straight to the Kickstarter to back!
It's not just the distance that's better but the rotation too.
14:28 So the idea about this is cool and it is a clever way to do this in order to make the most fair die for rolling *averages*. This might not be the most fair numbering though. I'm thinking of the particular ways casino dice are made for example, they optimize not for rolling the average the most, but for rolling every side equally often (by specifically making the pips deeper or shallower so the weight distribution stays the same).
What I mean by this is in your variant, you can end up with a die that heavily favours a certain cluster of numbers and almost never rolls the opposite side. This die would be "fair" in a sense that it will roll the average (10,5 for a D20) very well, but it is not fair in a sense through which some numbers are less favoured as they're surrounded by single digits, making that side of the die heavier (less engraving = less material gone).
This basically comes down to what your definition of a "fair die" is. In your case it's "a fair die rolls average", while I think that the more conventional definition is "a fair die rolls every face the same amount of times".
This is te whole "regular D20" vs. "Spindown D20" debate basically
Maybe you missed the whole "same sum of numbers surrounding any given side/vertex" part. But that's the idea, to never have a number that is surrounded by single digits. Sure you're not getting into absolutely perfect weight distribution, but that would take a lot of time and investment to ensure.
@@kennyvanvliet7569 Please re-read what I wrote.
And yes, that this doesn't make for a perfect weight distribution is exactly the issue I was talking about.
This arrangement optimizes for maufacturing defects and to have the die roll on average. That is not the conventional definition of a "fair die" though as that optimizes for every face getting rolled an equal amount of times.
Those are two different things
Thank you for bringing that up, but I think that considering the cheaper classic dice, makers probably don't have that much care with weight distribution. If one is willing to pay more, then they should absolutely have your argument in mind when choosing!
@@hugofontes5708 These dice are definitely in the "willing to pay more" category though
@@Chaosghoul yes, that's my point on why people need to be aware of what you said here before choosing
This is the best Wyrmwood video and I will die on this hill.
So hyped for my Gem gyroids. But one thing I NEED in my life is the full version of the diceapalooza track at the end of these videos to jam to 24/7
Love the attention to detail, Jason!!!!
The G4 is useful, but I'd get all the rest confused for each other. I don't want to have to inspect my dice to figure out which one is which, I'm just grabbing for a few to roll.
This they need to address. Cool dice but useless during gaming.
Why? They're all different shapes 🙂
@@WyrmLyfe I've grabbed D20's thinking they were D12's before and D12's thinking they were d20's before. Same is true of D8's and D10's.
Maybe I'm wrong here but it looks like this would happen even more often with these gyroid dice.
Of course I still like the idea but I prefer to buy things and get them right away once they become available online. I hope you change your mind with this one and continue to produce more and more dice with these new shapes and sell them at our website because I like them even if they are harder to identify.
Maybe ink the numbers different colours? But that's really just a bandaid fix.
I can admit that, you sold me on the dice campaign from the Gyroid dice. Thank you guys!
I can’t wait to support these! This is long overdue! Oh… the Kickstarter ended yesterday. Great work PR team.
*waves at Jason from the rabbit hole* I dove down here a few decades ago and wondered why nobody came out with these dice back in the 80s. Especially when I saw my first 30-sider (actually numbered 01-30) that we used to randomize what first level Mage spells a Magic User could access.
Some might say too much roll. There's going to be a lot more "No it's under your player desk... to your right. No no YOUR right! Yeah there."
Right.
Of the Platonic solids, the 6 sided and 8 sided dice roll best. The 12 sided and 20 sided tend to roll too far unless stopped. And the 4 sided just doesn't roll.
Significantly, dice roll less when the edges are sharp, and more when the edges are rounded.
Cube and octahedron roll well regardless, tetrahedron doesn't, no matter what.
Dodecahedrons and icosahedrons need sharp edges. Once the edges become rounded, they roll too far.
This may be the nerdiest video I have seen on a purely nerdy subject in a long long time.
Platonic solids or bust.
Cool science experiment!
Well, maybe, but the D4 can still go fuck itself
The format of this episode reminded me instantly of the podcasting format, and it was very cool. I'm down for more of this. =D
I love all of these words! Amazing!
This video- just glorious!
How did I know Henry Sherman's name was going to be on that paper?! How did I know?! Oh yeah.. Because he's the math GOAT!
WHY NOT MAKE THEM AVILBLE POST KICKSTARTER????? like, I get it, trying to build hype, but if this'll take of you'd literally have a monopoly and something that makes you completely uniqe (at least until other dice makers catch up) I understand not commiting to it as, yeah, you have no idea how it'll go and it might follow in the way of the high variance dice, but to straight up shut it down is closing the door on what can be a major opportunity imo
At least part of the reason is marketing... FOMO is a powerful Kickstarter booster, and they're still actively promoting the Kickstarter... if the Kickstarter is a huge success and they're seeing a big market for it, I wouldn't be surprised if we see gyroid dice continue longer term... or at least show up as part of future crowdfunding campaigns.
As much as I hate to say it, having "exclusive dice designs" that only become available during crowdfunded campaigns is probably a good way to squeeze a little extra engagement out of the campaign... a year from now I still probably won't be in the market for an MGT, but if I wind up needing more G4 dice and the only way to get them is the next MGT campaign, I'd probably back at the cheap level to be able to get those dice.
Plus, if they introduce different designs each time, they'll lure the dice goblins back repeatedly. I can talk myself out of buying a second set of dice in this campaign by choosing my favorite, but will I be able to do the same a year from now when they're offering something I might like MORE than the design I already have?
As a recently graduated college student in geology, coccolithophores are ancient, historic, and microscopic algae found on the seafloor. Felt like this is a review relearning dodecahedron and hexahedrons all over again. As a geologist, I approve, Im in the campaign and sold. These gyroids will be the star of my campaigns
This might be my favorite Wyrmlyfe video of all time.
Do we want dice to roll a long distance? Because the closer a die is to a sphere the more it rolls but also the more carefully it needs to be made so there's no bias. A D4 on the other hand can be quite badly made and still work.
I wasn't sure about the G10/G100 numbering, but taking away the confusion of "00+0" and making it just "add them together" makes this a win.
Im going to be buying a set of these for each player at my d&d table with a link to this youtube explanation. They are too cool!
my gm already regularly throws his dice into the battle mat knocking over minis, this would only make it worse
XD
Bobby’s t shirt is a great Easter egg :)
I’m super excited for the gyroids!
love the diceapalooza =) but also need to say its day #3 for the card throwing challenge i am sending out to Doug =)
I just managed to get enough money for floor seats thanks to a gallery downtown selling one of my pieces! Glad to finally be a part of something Wyrmwood related. Now I just need to figure out which resin set to get. I’m considering both Rainbow Road and Sea Glass, but they all look good…
I just backed my first ever Kickstarter Jason sold me! I gotta have some gyroids!
Gyroids! I'm so hyped! Lets go!
I initially backed this project on Kickstarter. Then cancelled my pledge. Why? Because the gyroid G10 dice they are proposing is numbered not with 0 to 9 digits (like standard non-gyroid D10 dice) but with 1 to 10 numbers. Which is kind of annoying when you try pairing a gyroid G100 dice with a gyroid G10 dice to generate a percentage because... according to the creators you then have to ADD the results of the two dice. Basically you have to learn and remember how to use this pair of dice because it's not working as we are all used to with a pair of one standard non-gyroid D100 and one standard non-gyroid D10 (that you're not adding as one is giving you the tens and the other the units).
Examples with a G100 + G10 pair: 00 (on the G100) + 10 (on the G10) = 10... 00 + 6 = 6... 10 + 1 = 11... 90 + 10 = 100... etc.
If it's something you can live with then by all means go ahead and get those. In terms of shapes (but IMHO not numbering for G10 dice) they are a great idea. And I have others dice I got from previous Wyrmwood KS campaigns and I'm really happy with the quality.
This was the video I was waiting for.
Oooo yeah, diceapalooza right in the face.
I feel like this video needed Jason in a Tweed Jacket and glasses. . Professor Dice!
These are amazing and need to be sold ❤.
Also, those big versions would make amazing learning toys for toddlers and kids. Heck I'd buy them for myself lol.
Round the edges and make them out of foam. Give each one a specific background color that matches with its corresponding number color.
Make the color and number scheme go from the color spectrum, 1 is red, and so on.
Someone needs to get this information to Wil Wheaton. Maybe it can finally break his dice curse!
What about the weight distribution of the dice? I'm honestly surprised that wasn't mentioned as weighted dice are a real thing and imperfections in craftsmanship can cause even the best of shapes to roll far less than the desired average.
Why not roll one a thousand times to prove it's more fair?
Numbering doesn't matter much if the shapes and weighting is perfect, and the rolling is fair - you need a uniform dendity material, you need to machine the numbers and fill them with material of the same density.
And long rolling distance is BAD. The cube and octahedron are ideal.
So your dice are not good for use unless something stops them from rolling off the table.
And I have had list of dice go off the table.
How about a link to Bob Bosch’s paper in the video description?
would've been amazing if you had cameo'd in the video :D
I CAD modeled these to print and send to you guys and lo and behold you already have big bois. You ruined my gift ahha
My biggest concern was being able to differentiate between each die and I'm still not perfectly sold on the point made that each side is different. The G4 and the G10/G100, and the G8 is similar to the G20. Not exactly, but seem to be similar enough to still warrant concern.
Either way, I may still be convinced to get a set because the idea is still really cool!
Same. But I took a look at the campaign and some of the resin dice sets have intentional color differences between the different die sizes. I think I'm going to go with a gyroid Sea Glass - maybe the faces will be enough, but worst case I should be able to pick them out by color after a while.
@@smith186 Yeah, I was thinking of getting a gyroid set in Rainbow Road specifically so they are each a different color. I also love the idea of this set because it reminds me of old D&D kits that had multicolored dice. :)
All the high faces need to have the different color. Idc if its the logo, but it looks bad when only some or one of the high numbers are a different color
Those are very nice
Calling @standupmaths for even more of a deep dive please!
NERDS!!!! haha love it!
This was rad
Please make them available after the Kickstarter!!!
For how mathematic this video was, I'm hurt that they eyeballed the average roll distance when there was A MEASURING TAPE ON THE TABLE
First but seriously surprise Monday Wyrmwood video, woot!
My brain is absorbing all this info🎉
Nerdgasem noises in this episode were spot on in this episode.
The sound effects are on point 😂 2:26
The huge variance in roll distance seems like positive evidence for a highly randomized surface. It's variance in momentum loss shows that it is hitting sides and rolling edges at more random intervals. Whereas most of the 'standard' dice sat in clusters.
There are 4 60-sided Catalan solids, three of which have never, to my knowledge, been made as commercially available dice. All the d60s I own are deltoidal hexacontahedra, but there's also the triakis Icosahedron, pentakis dodecahedron, and pentagonal hexacontahedron.
That the d20s are mathematically balanced is nice, but not looking to higher multiples of 20 feels like a missed opportunity.
I think it's also worth noting that, since the icosahedron has 5 faces per vertex, and the average value for a D20 face is 10.5it's impossible for every vertex to have the same sum(the sum would need to be 52.5) and that mathematically balanced D20s instead have 6 vertices with a sum of 52 and 6 with a sum of 53.
I was about to comment the same, glad I saw your comment.
All d60's I own are also deltoidal hexacontahedra. Not that big a fan of the 2 with triangular faces, the triakis icosahedron is not very well suited to be numbered with its thin triangles, and the pentakis dodecahedron feels in some way wonky to me. But it would be cool to see a pentagonal hexacontahedron. Especially if they were available in both chiralities.
Sadly non of these polyhedra would fix the numbering issue, as they all have vertices of odd order. For a perfectly balanced numbering you would need to go up to a 120 sided disdyakis triacontahedron, having vertices of order 4, 6 and 10.
Although, using these for a d20 numbering would be a bit overkill imho.
@@Pjotr1998 I'm not the biggest fan of the kis platonics(triakis tetrahedron excluded) either, especially since they are redundant to the deltoidal and pentagonal icositetra/hexacontahedra, but I still want a full set of Catalan dice if only for the sake of completion, even if I can't think of a good reason to have 3 distinct d12(I'm including the classic platonic version as well), 4/5 distinct d24, and 4/5 distinct d60.
Then again, I also want a complete set of Archimedean dice even knowing they won't be fair, I'm just a massive geometry geek with a passion for polyhedra(and an addiction to alliteration).
I am pretty sure Lou Zocchi started this drive toward perfect accurate dice back in the 80's with GameScience dice. Glad to see another company taking a crack at this in the modern era.
Lou Zocchi is crazy he tested a d5 to make in perfectly fare die and has a single die that can roll every die in rpg games. The guy has contributed multiple titles to gaming. They need to do an interview with him because he is the OG dice guy.
Have you seen the Dice Lab's D4s of equal width with G2 smooth surfaces (Orbiform D4s)? - Make for extremely well-rolling D4s
Would love these Gyroid Dice getting that treatment additionally to what you already did!
Too damn difficult to find the dice you actually need with the gyroids. Having some d4's might be cool .. but the others will just cause you to be looking for the right dice on your turn when initiative comes around.
Just pledged, Jason’s mathematical deep dive pushed me over the edge, like how can you not pledge when you see this level 20 math nerd in full plumage
as this becomes a stock video in every gaming, and math class to explain this to high school and collage students....
Can we see some gyroid float tests?
I think it's a massive oversight to not have all of the high faces be a different color.
I think they do in certain colorways, right?
@@lennartbI mean in this video only one was and they even said for the g6 only one face will have the shield
@@lennartbyes. If they aren't all high numbers are the same color I won't be buying lol
Something to keep in mind is that a lot of people out there have trouble with color. You can always ink in some different colors yourself, tho. That's the easiest part of making dice.
Can we have the gyroid's as extras on the european mgt kickstarter?😅
Best show on RUclips
d4 looking back at the d6 and d8 and saying "Why they complainin' bout how I roll"? (and the d12 going by "See ya suckas!")
holy shit that Aladdin edit was gold
Congrats, you made a more compllicated dice.
I'm kind of curious about this paper Jason found regarding numbering the D20
are the gemstone dice safe to roll in the tower? ive been seeing how harder surfaces could damage the dice
This is cool and all, but do you guys make custom sized DM screens?
Would be much more likely to buy these if one or more of the high faces have a different background color, or very strong textual highlighting. Since these are unfamiliar shapes, I'd like it to be easier to identify them if I'm actually going to use them. Otherwise I might just get a bunch of g4s and leave the rest.
I have so much MORE respect for Jason's brain after this ep.
Interesting. I guess the nerdier and more useful measure, as far as rolling goes, is the angle of the vertices, rather than the number or size of the faces
Let's go!
The issue I see for gyroid dice (outside of the d4 cuz screw that bare foot killer) is that it will be a pain to realize which dice I am holding unless they are in a labeled area.
They mentioned in the video that the face shapes will give you a large hint. Once you're using them regularly you'll pick up what's what.
shoutout to henry segerman! He makes dice. He makes weird dice of weird sizes and shapes. they are called the dice lab.
speaking of, they could have done a 60 sided G20. They shouldn’t, the normal D20 rolls well enough, but they could have.
So is Jason getting a new tattoo on his arm with these dice shapes?
This convinced me to upgrade to the g4 lol
Might have to change my pledge tier
When is the Spotify drop for the full Diceapalooza theme song?
will there be single G4s available in the campaign? i want extra to replace in my other sets lol
Yes!
Yes, they don't have a direct backing level for it, but you can add them on in the backerkit after the campaign. That said, if you back a full set of dice, you're committing to getting a set of dice, you can't repurpose those funds to buy only g4 dice. For that reason, I backed the minimum amount and plan to buy a bunch of g4 in the backerkit later for extra funds.
Would Jason be willing to publish his information on the gyroid dice? Like, the intended dihedral angles and sizeing? I understand wanting to make them limited but establishing a standard would be invaluable. We could even call it the Wyrmwood standard.
I would even like having a name for that more fair D20 mapping. Countdown dice is the only mapping that really has a name so it would be nice to ask "does this dice have the Wyrmwood number mapping?" Or if that feels like taking credit then give it a name pointing to that paper.
Yeah, especially if they don't intend on selling these in the future, it would sure be nice if they made the concepts available to the larger community.
I need them all.
It should be noted that you're shooting for maximum randomization. Those short rolls support the fact that they roll randomly. You sold me!
What level do you have to back at in order to get a full gyroid set?
When backing a Floor Seat and beyond, are the Gyroids considered one of the included Dice Sets of 7?
ok, THIS is how you get me.
1. I’m buying them. So no worries there.
2. How many sets … unsure.
Honest question, and I’m writing this about 10 min in, but what is the point of a G6 when a D12 already exists. Does the G12 help out something more than just doing 1-6 twice on a D12?
I feel like Matt Parker would like this episode
They need to colab!
Henry Segerman.
Maybe they tried and he asked them to roll each die a thousand times and record the results, so they took a pass.
I think Matt would point out that normal polyhedral dice have exactly the same statistical probability of rolling each number as these "gyroids". The roundness of a die, placement of the numbers, and roll distance have no discernible effect on its "fairness", assuming we're using a dice tower and not using loaded dice.
How does making the opposite face sum constant make the die fair? Seems to me if there's a bias toward the largest or smallest this maximises the harm.
Any chance we could get the diceapalooza song as a ringtone?
So dam cool
Nerdapalooza!
The “high faces comfirmed” in the edit on screen is different from what was actually said.
Yeah I'm going to go with what Jason said. "Zero is high"
@@VagabondTE - Apparently it is like what was on the screen. So the high face on the G100 is 90 and the low Is 00 - and the high on the G10 is 10 and the low is 1.
This is so when doing normal rolls with the G10 it makes sense.
And with percentage rolls you add it together (00+10 = 10 and 90 + 10 = 100)
I don’t know what to think about it because it’s different from what I’m used to.
But I guess it works and I’m not angry about it.
@@Jovi_97 Yes I understand Jason's method now. But the screen is still wrong. The screen says "High numbers: G10: 90 G100: 00". That's wrong no matter how you do it. Anyway, the conclusion that I've come to is that since they've changed the 0 to a 10, they should have also changed the double zero to a regular zero, or left it blank. That would reinforce their method.
@@VagabondTE - Oh yeah, I didn’t go back to check what they wrote on screen again, you’re right ^^
The double zero doesn’t bother me, but I do agree that it would make sense your way.