My last career, I was working as an aircraft mechanic (A&P). One of our customers went to an auction and bought an engine that supposedly had just been overhauled and was "ready to install". He wanted to do just that for his homebuilt plane. I suggested he let us look it over first and had to talk to him a while. He did bring it over and we 'scoped the cylinders. We saw "stuff" inside them that shouldn't be there. Seems someone decided to sabotage the engine. Every cylinder had about 4 or more tablespoons of sand in them. Made me decide to NEVER buy stuff from an auction unless I could closely inspect it.
ya I bought a 'freshly rebuilt" 383 from a guy who got it in an Estate Sale, called the company that rebuilt it and it all checked out, except it had a 400 crank in it, but ok, I had to get a flywheel specially balanced for that application, stuck it in, ran ok, except it kept fouling one spark plug, only got worse so did a compression test on that cylinder, no compression, pulled it apart just to find a blown head gasket on that side, ok no problem right? no, gets worse, one of the wrist pins had been creeping back and forth gouging the cylinder wall to the point where we had to sleeve it, but we did, new crank, rods, pistons, bored over, did the heads, all back together been in the car ever since
If we're sharing horror stories.... my cousin bought a "freshly rebuilt" Ford 300 Six for what seemed ridiculously cheap to replace the one in his truck. Funny thing was, a month prior, I scored him an entire TRUCK with a running 300 Six for half what he paid for this engine. He wisely chose not to use the engine he could hear run because that engine was newer, and was missing a drilled/tapped hole that was necessary for his mechanical clutch linkage. What I found very odd was he's a 25+ year, seasoned mechanic and claimed he'd never drilled or tapped cast iron before. I told him it was like cutting butter.... but I guess I'm an idiot. Well, one weekend we swap in his "rebuilt" six even though he wisely chose not to at the very least, remove the pan and double check the work. You know.... trust, but verify. Nope, let's just throw it in. After 2 solid days, it's in, hooked up, primed, fueled.... he turns the key.... and it runs.... but it sounded like a steel drum full of cats and hammers being rolled down a hill. It ran for about 45 seconds before he shut it off. I'm standing in front of the truck and he kinda stares at me through the windshield. I must've had an "I told you so look" on my face. A couple weeks later after licking his wounds, he phones me and says "Hey uh.... I learned how to drill and tap cast iron." Oh yeah, and after he swapped in the engine that RAN.... we disassembled his "fresh rebuild" and yeah.... he'd been took. Completely stock, worn-out bottom end, flapping in the breeze timing chain and completely mismatched pistons. The #6 hole was .030" over and the others were stock bore. It was a total rattle-can rebuild. Somebody made it pretty for a few bucks and rolled it.
@@barto6577 that's right, we put a 440 steel crank in it, over-stroked, chevy 454 rods and it was bored .030 or .040 over, can't remember specifically but we did the math at the time and it came out to about 438 cubic inches
One of these days, maybe not so far in the future, we will get to hear you say: "And remember, disassembly is not necessarily the reverse of assembly". I am really looking forward to that video, and the two or three that will precede it. Thanks Jamie, for doing the stuff (that I'm no longer physically able to do).
Actually, they do! Look at the two center cylinders; they are mirror images. (I thought what you thought, until I looked again after reading your comment).
It looks like that engine was sabotaged. Like someone dumped some metal down the intake on purpose. That sand didn't help either. YIKES! Good thing they didn't run it too long. I know you guys will get it right, though. It is in good hands. Great video!
Start to finish, I enjoy watching you because you take things I didn't necessarily want or need to know, and somehow you make me glad I know them, usable or not.
I’m happy to help, if it can be called that. Haha. If some day the average DDG viewer could slay a mechanic based trivia night, I will deem this operation a success.
I had some work done at a "recommended" machine shop, in Clearwater, Florida. I had recently moved here and knew no one. Anyway, I went to pick up my engine and as I was driving into their parking lot, I saw the overhead door open on the side of their shop and noticed just inside was a 40" industrial shop fan, blowing into the shop and directly at sevewral engines on stands. The entrence was all loose stone and sand. (Florida). I parked and went inside to fins my engine on a stand. NOT BAGGED and directly infront of the fan blowing all the parkinglot sand directly into it!!! I LOST MY MIND at the owner... WTF kind of idiots would do enginework and NOT bag the engine up to keep it clean????? but adding insult to injury, aim an industrial fan directly at it on high with a sand filled driveway?????? That was nearly 30 years ago and I STILL feel that RAGE!!!!!
I work in a shop rebuilding massive industrial twin rotor refrigeration compressors. We scrub parts by hand only and cover palletized clean parts with plastic sheets. Some yahoo landscaping guy came by and started leaf blowing in the vicinity of our clean area. My boss?? Yeah he had your reaction at that guy about being a careless moron. 🤣
Dyna-Mod is from Performance Distributors in Memphis, Tennessee. They were one of the originators of the HEI distributor on other brands of engines - the DUI (Davis Unified Ignition).
You are correct in that they are wrong - but they should not look the same. The valve reliefs are flipped in the middle two pistons. The valves go in an E-I, I-E, E-I, I-E pattern. The pistons were installed E-I, E-I, I-E, I-E
Yea if it was my beater I'd run those pistons in a heartbeat, after a little clean up, but.... It does look like deliberate sabotage, between the kibbles and the sand. Luckily not enough run time to stir up and suck sand into the oiling system. I've mostly been into GM engines over the years for my projects, but I can't lie, I really like Chrysler engines, especially the B / RB engines, and of those, the 440. They made a positive impression on me as a youngster. And the names..... How can you beat 440 TNT, or 440 Magnum !! Fond memories of high school parking lot burnouts!
If the corrosion in the coolant galleries is a concern, & it was for me in my 325 Hemi, see if you have a Redi Strip place in your area. I had my block hot tanked, & it cleaned almost all the sludge & crud from the block. Then off to my local Redi Strip shop & a week later, it came back sterile clean. There was NO corrosion whatsoever in the coolant galleries. It was cleaner than it was during the factory machining of a new casting. No core sand, no nothing, so off to the machine shop it went. They were surprised at just how clean it was.
We’re still stuck on the “have it hot tanked” phase… turns out that’s getting harder and harder to find. Machine shops are using a very different cleaning process these days that doesn’t involve caustic solution. Unfortunately that cleaning process involves steel shot, which will rough up our shiny new bores in this engine.
Been there.. i was asked to reassemble a 1972 Mercedes 3.5 V8 . The car was painted etc and the owner told me the engine was locked solid . I looked in the car thinking that i could see bondo dust everywhere .it was 4" deep on the floors . The painters didn't botther to clean the car before painting,which included soda blasting . They had been driving ybe car around their shop without the aircleaner ( which was blocked with soda ) and of course Bi carb sucked into the engine in sufficient quantities to seize it .😮
Ironic that not long after watching this, MotorWeek posted a video about the new Challenger EV coupe!😂 Stellantis is definitely doing a great job at burying the Mopar name for good. Thank God people like you are around to keep the glory days alive!
Did you get a piston to head / valve measurement? It's really easy to have those 915s hit and a few of these angles looked like the piston was hitting the pad.
Near as I could tell, there was no pad contact outside of the foreign debris. There are blue paint marks inside of every spark plug hole, in case that’s what you’re seeing.
It seems almost like a tale of two engines- the reciprocating assembly/intake/waterpump drive looks more like a 1hp+/CI build, but the heads/cam/ block prep look like a quick & dirty weekend overhaul on an old motorhome engine. Then there's the 'foreign object damage'- FOD- ask the folks on the last Concord flight about that...
That is the nicest looking, trashed engine I have ever seen. I've torn down a few Chevy SB's that leaked out of every possible spot, but looked WAY better than that stored rebuild. Probably a good thing it made the horrible noise, because it would have ground itself apart in short order with all the grit that was in it.
This 440 was in a shop where tjey were doing extensive bodywork beside it and they didn't cover up and seal off the engine.. a buddy of mine ended up 😭 a 79 mercury Capri 351 4spd and it also sat in a shop where massive or extensive bodywork on vehicles and sand or Media blasting anyway he ended up with the car because it had very low compression on every cylinder on the Dr side made horrendous grinding noises but the guy drove it almost 3 years until it simply locked up, turned out to have sand in the top of the motor and in the oil, the 3 and 5 cylinders mashed the piston rings in place and the number 1 piston had several pieces of busted piston rings on the top of the piston and scarred the cylinders pretty badly and the dr side head was junk it was going to need extensive work new valves machining and atleast 3 valve springs replaced, my buddy pulled it out swapped in a 77-79 Thunderbird 302 and sold the car
I used to do crankshaft balancing and I’m gonna guess due to removing lots of weight on those pistons when they removed the pads the crank required material removal to compensate for what was lost in the reciprocating mass. Both the flange and post ends should have lots removed from the outer counterweights, or on the flange end they used inner counter weights also to remove material (drilling , grinding etc)
JAMIE could be debris for the valve seat job that was cleaned up before heads installed or someone didn't like the person that owns the engine, if you know what I mean 🤔
My armchair quarterback sleuthing thinks: Either it was sitting on the ground next to a workbench and the metal bits fell into the intake. Or a very upset engine builder didn't like someone and sabotaged it by tossing metal bits down the intake before finishing the motor. And that was a super minimal amount of oil on those rockers. Dear old Dad always said "Lube is cheap, Parts aren't" as he's stirring his coffee with his little Snap-On flat head he just adjusted a carb with.
I’d be tempted to reuse that piston again but a super stock racer told me years ago that those hyper-eclectic pistons don’t crack, they don’t bend, they shatter like glass! lol Edit - To be fair, I own two sets of KBs, great street/performance pistons, his point was that they can’t take a steady diet of ‘all out’, all the time.
Hypers are not forgiving. If you have enough ring gap, good fuel and a good tune they are okay. Get greedy and.... A lot of issues I've seen with KB is their recommended ring gaps and wall clearances seem to be for low power engines. Set them up like the LS Boys do their 5 second stock bottom end engines and they have a lot less issues.
Ah my body shop days….. The painter who was a Tweaker that took the valve covers and carburetor off a customer Corvette that That sat for years in our shop. Of course he didn’t cover anything (The hood was closed!) High production body shop = sandblasting, body filler dust, rodents, Flying metal, sparks…. Two years later, the customer was coming to pick up the car and the carburetor and valve covers were quickly reinstalled. We were told the engine locked up during the New engine break-in . Hmmmmmm……
Jaime, great teardown work! ok, I really do not like that piston design: I know loads of them out there are running well and getting beat on but that second land relief design is really archaic and was left behind many many decades ago by the OEMs and the aftermarrket. it pushes the top ring up(towards the heat, therefore the larger gaps needed) and just doesn't work well. that and with the amount of Silicon in it(the eutectic line for cast aluminum alloy is above 16%, up to about 19%) is stronger but ends up more brittle after hardening. gives good wear characteristics. I checked on DSS website, they do not list a 440 Mopar piston, have used DSS with good success in the past and have a couple Ford builds going together now. please use a good sealed power cast piston or someone's modern Forged pistons with a thinner ring pack with a coating on top ring. will make more power, be lighter(help with that butchered crank!) and the engine will be happier overall. looking forward to some builds! I'll be building 3-4 engines here in Chicago this winter( 351W Ford, 428FE Ford, a 1600ti BMW, an S52 BMW and another 395" small block Ford that shakes like it's mixing paint!) I play your vids in the garage while working. thanks!
Just for comment, it appeared to have a chevrolet base oil filter on it ,and it should have had a ford base filter. Very close to a filter failure if it was left together very long. This appears to be an engine that was assembled and left sitting in the shop for a while. It was left open and collected some debris and sand, was fired up and had bad results. I would like to hope that a disgruntled employee didn't drop some roll pins or u-joint bearings into it to get back at someone. But, I've worked in a few shops and saw a lot of ignorant/immature behavior. * Had to add this .... I once went with a friend to one of his friends shops. (okay, actually he was working out of his garage) and the genius was running an engine at fast idle and sprinkling borax down the carb "trying to get those hard chrome - moly rings to seat". I dunno what, but I never went there again.
Lots of odd things going on here. Maybe the guy built it on a beach😂 maybe extra things were added to the intake because someone was not happy. This is a long shot but check the valve seats. I did a 67 as i told you years ago that had the wrong pistons because 67 is special do to the 915 heads. But when i took the heads apart one exhaust seat was broken. Not sure why. The machine shop was how and why shocked too. Kb makes nice pistons but those are weird.
I may have missed it, but did you determine what the pieces of metal were? Aluminum, cast iron, or steel? A magnet can be used to determine if it is ferrous or not, of course. A spark test can be done to differentiate between cast iron and steel. Touch the end to a grinding wheel, long yellow sparks = steel. Short red sparks = cast iron. The 'sand' or grit may be from the machining for the new seats. And was never properly cleaned.
the volvo/penta Inboard Outboards or XP engines are a regular 350 GM engines, they have all the accessories on one big plate, similar as seen here. I like them, i can have the power steering pump, tensioner, alternator and raw water pump off the front of the engine quicker than i can disconnect the power steering hoses.
You are rebuilding Christmas because you have to be a skill mechanic to build them in the beginning most people will shovel lace because they're easier and cheapray keep app the good work
It seems to me that bits and pieces could be carb parts and or linkages that vibrated loose and fell in. Doesn't feel like they hot tanked that block to get it clean. That could be casting sand that never came out too. @Jamie the blown Hemi idea...the manifold seems to be the most expensive part of the kits so Ebay and Racing Junk plus hot rod hi performance swap meets are a good bet. As far as a 6-71 look for rebuilt GMC cased kits instead of the modern 9-12 rib cases since its a street motor.
Did I say I was going to run a blower? I mean I’ve been considering it… but I don’t think I said it here. Haha. Honestly, for what you’re getting, I don’t think the kits seem that outlandishly expensive. Not cheap… but it’s not supposed to be.
The poly head engine did have a drain back hole, but it’s not there at all on the LA engine. I’ll try to point that out next time I’m doing poly stuff.
I can prolly remove the oil pan on my 440 e-body with the engine in place, but is there enough room to remove the pick up tube? Its a milodin 7 quart deep sump. And thanks for the info.
It's really weird that it can appear so nice on the outside but ugly on the inside. This is an actual example of why car guys have trust issues. It's because of getting burned a time or two, so now we don't trust a strangers work. You'll get it fixed I'm sure, but going with a full rebuild would be best. Tanked, checked for cracks the whole 9.
These days, 440 parts aren't as popular as they were 20 years and now cast piston for 440's are nearly as expensive as forged pistons. The 440-6 barrel engines originally got a thicker timing cover gasket to allow for machining variations in the 440 block that might run the thicker chain too close to the timing cover. Many C-body oil pans will fit into many B-body cars. Some non-high performance 383 oil pans will not clear the 440 crankshaft, as they run closer to the crankshaft than 440 pans and engines with windage trays. Some aftermarket windage trays require trimming, but Mopar windage trays usually fit alright, unless they changed at some point. Comp Cams Hi Energy cams have mild cam lobes that don't require as much valve springs as the more aggressive Magnum and Xtreme Energy cam lobes require. I've had good luck with the KP pistons in small block bores, such as the 360, but the larger diameter ones, such as the 440 seem to fail more easily and they are designed to run tighter in the bores than forged pistons. The forged pistons are so much stronger. The Hi Energy cam lobes are more aggressive than the factory cam lobes and might better with slightly heavier springs than the Comp Cams springs. Isky makes very high quality Six-Pack replacement valve springs, designed to be installed at 1.850". They make good 340 replacement springs too. The 10 degree retainers and keepers from Comp Cams prevents the springs from "settling" at a 0.020" longer length, common with 7 degree locks.
Lots of good info here, but I do have to wonder what 383 pans you’re referring to. That’s news to me. Don’t think I’ve ever put together a 383 without a windage tray. Early stuff? I know the C-body pan generally works. The only setup that sticks out in my mind as being really picky about only fitting the right pan is the ‘73+ B-body.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The 383 High Performance engines got 440 oil pans so they clear the windage tray. Many 361-383 B-body windage trays that are not high performance versions with windage trays have the ends / side narrower. The 67-68 but not the 69 A-body pans may be similar. They have more taper on the front and back than the 440 oil pans. Early 383 pans, before the 68 383 HP windage tray models are usually tapered on the ends, if they haven't been changed. The tapered end 361-383 pans won't allow a windage tray, unless the tray is trimmed in length, on both ends, to be just over the sump. 440 Isky single valve spring with damper, made of really good steel is PN 3605-D. Isky says height is 1.875", but that's a bit light and can be 1.83" - 1.86". Their 340 valve spring is PN 3105-D @ 1.700" which is much better than the originals. The current best mechanical 440 fuel pump available I've found is the one still branded as "Carter". Better than Holley or Edelbrock pumps and the Holley is better than the Edelbrock.
I’ve seen it before. Raised top ring. Someone in another comment was discussing that design, and how it’s a bad idea and pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.
4:34 Worst oil pans to remove in the world ever!… were the 7.3 international v8’s in around 99’-01’ that Ford used in the super duty truck line. They sucked!! Only oil pans I ever saw that rotted away from the inside out.
It’s worse than that, because once you’ve jacked the engine up to just barely get the pan out, you have to wait a week for oil to stop leaking down the back wall of the block to have any hope of sealing it with silicone - which, because there is no gasket, is all you can use! I have a pair of pants and one of my favorite shirts that are both permanently marked with gray silicone from the one I did. Anyway, related, I did recently replace an oil pan on a 4.0 Jeep because it was rusting half way up…
The only engine from the leaded fuel days that I've seen need valve seats was an aluminum headed engine. I'm not quite sure why but iron heads seem to be ok
I'm ASSUMING the jamming was from the chunks of debris? Seems like sabotage with a handful of sand and a couple of machine screws or some such down the intake...
Yes, what’s odd is that I swear I got a clip showing that it turned freely once the bits were out, but that seems to have missed the cut? I’m not sure what happened there - but it turned smoothly once the heads were off. You’re not the only one with that theory. Personally, I prefer to imagine negligence. But I could be wrong.
It was either sabotaged by someone or the builder was a full hacktivist. Oh man!!!
I don’t know about all that.
My last career, I was working as an aircraft mechanic (A&P). One of our customers went to an auction and bought an engine that supposedly had just been overhauled and was "ready to install". He wanted to do just that for his homebuilt plane. I suggested he let us look it over first and had to talk to him a while. He did bring it over and we 'scoped the cylinders. We saw "stuff" inside them that shouldn't be there. Seems someone decided to sabotage the engine. Every cylinder had about 4 or more tablespoons of sand in them. Made me decide to NEVER buy stuff from an auction unless I could closely inspect it.
ya I bought a 'freshly rebuilt" 383 from a guy who got it in an Estate Sale, called the company that rebuilt it and it all checked out, except it had a 400 crank in it, but ok, I had to get a flywheel specially balanced for that application, stuck it in, ran ok, except it kept fouling one spark plug, only got worse so did a compression test on that cylinder, no compression, pulled it apart just to find a blown head gasket on that side, ok no problem right? no, gets worse, one of the wrist pins had been creeping back and forth gouging the cylinder wall to the point where we had to sleeve it, but we did, new crank, rods, pistons, bored over, did the heads, all back together been in the car ever since
If we're sharing horror stories.... my cousin bought a "freshly rebuilt" Ford 300 Six for what seemed ridiculously cheap to replace the one in his truck. Funny thing was, a month prior, I scored him an entire TRUCK with a running 300 Six for half what he paid for this engine. He wisely chose not to use the engine he could hear run because that engine was newer, and was missing a drilled/tapped hole that was necessary for his mechanical clutch linkage. What I found very odd was he's a 25+ year, seasoned mechanic and claimed he'd never drilled or tapped cast iron before. I told him it was like cutting butter.... but I guess I'm an idiot.
Well, one weekend we swap in his "rebuilt" six even though he wisely chose not to at the very least, remove the pan and double check the work. You know.... trust, but verify. Nope, let's just throw it in. After 2 solid days, it's in, hooked up, primed, fueled.... he turns the key.... and it runs.... but it sounded like a steel drum full of cats and hammers being rolled down a hill. It ran for about 45 seconds before he shut it off. I'm standing in front of the truck and he kinda stares at me through the windshield. I must've had an "I told you so look" on my face.
A couple weeks later after licking his wounds, he phones me and says "Hey uh.... I learned how to drill and tap cast iron."
Oh yeah, and after he swapped in the engine that RAN.... we disassembled his "fresh rebuild" and yeah.... he'd been took. Completely stock, worn-out bottom end, flapping in the breeze timing chain and completely mismatched pistons. The #6 hole was .030" over and the others were stock bore. It was a total rattle-can rebuild. Somebody made it pretty for a few bucks and rolled it.
@@Fongolitusa 400 sbc crank in a 350 sbc is what makes it a 383. That and a .030" overbore.
@@sinformant His was most likely a MOPAR 383. B block.
@@barto6577 that's right, we put a 440 steel crank in it, over-stroked, chevy 454 rods and it was bored .030 or .040 over, can't remember specifically but we did the math at the time and it came out to about 438 cubic inches
One of these days, maybe not so far in the future, we will get to hear you say: "And remember, disassembly is not necessarily the reverse of assembly". I am really looking forward to that video, and the two or three that will precede it. Thanks Jamie, for doing the stuff (that I'm no longer physically able to do).
13:05 those pistons are bugging me. The valvles are arranged E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E but the valve reliefs in the pistons don't match that at all.
#4 & 6
Actually, they do! Look at the two center cylinders; they are mirror images. (I thought what you thought, until I looked again after reading your comment).
@@61rampy65 yep, assuming #2 and #8 are correct then swapping #4 and #6 would be the ticket.
Yup, noticed it right off.
You’re right, and I didn’t notice at all while I was testing it down. I was too busy marveling at the chunks…
It looks like that engine was sabotaged. Like someone dumped some metal down the intake on purpose.
That sand didn't help either. YIKES! Good thing they didn't run it too long.
I know you guys will get it right, though. It is in good hands.
Great video!
Start to finish, I enjoy watching you because you take things I didn't necessarily want or need to know, and somehow you make me glad I know them, usable or not.
I’m happy to help, if it can be called that. Haha. If some day the average DDG viewer could slay a mechanic based trivia night, I will deem this operation a success.
I had some work done at a "recommended" machine shop, in Clearwater, Florida. I had recently moved here and knew no one. Anyway, I went to pick up my engine and as I was driving into their parking lot, I saw the overhead door open on the side of their shop and noticed just inside was a 40" industrial shop fan, blowing into the shop and directly at sevewral engines on stands. The entrence was all loose stone and sand. (Florida). I parked and went inside to fins my engine on a stand. NOT BAGGED and directly infront of the fan blowing all the parkinglot sand directly into it!!! I LOST MY MIND at the owner... WTF kind of idiots would do enginework and NOT bag the engine up to keep it clean????? but adding insult to injury, aim an industrial fan directly at it on high with a sand filled driveway?????? That was nearly 30 years ago and I STILL feel that RAGE!!!!!
You were right to be angry
I work in a shop rebuilding massive industrial twin rotor refrigeration compressors. We scrub parts by hand only and cover palletized clean parts with plastic sheets. Some yahoo landscaping guy came by and started leaf blowing in the vicinity of our clean area. My boss?? Yeah he had your reaction at that guy about being a careless moron. 🤣
Wow… just wow. That’s very stupid.
Fascinating postmortem teardown. Thanks for the entertaining narration.
Dyna-Mod is from Performance Distributors in Memphis, Tennessee. They were one of the originators of the HEI distributor on other brands of engines - the DUI (Davis Unified Ignition).
That was a great video, I learn a ton from these breakdown videos.
The owner made the right choice majority of parts can be saved splendid
Great work. Thank you Jamie.
Thank *you!*
13:04 Looks like some of the pistons are facing the wrong way? Thought they should look the same on at least each bank.
Great catch. They are wrong.
You are correct in that they are wrong - but they should not look the same. The valve reliefs are flipped in the middle two pistons. The valves go in an E-I, I-E, E-I, I-E pattern. The pistons were installed E-I, E-I, I-E, I-E
@@DeadDodgeGarage I dont know why, but when I read E-I, I-E, E-I, I-E I though of dolphin sounds.
Much love for Big Blocks! Thank you Jamie
Yea if it was my beater I'd run those pistons in a heartbeat, after a little clean up, but.... It does look like deliberate sabotage, between the kibbles and the sand. Luckily not enough run time to stir up and suck sand into the oiling system. I've mostly been into GM engines over the years for my projects, but I can't lie, I really like Chrysler engines, especially the B / RB engines, and of those, the 440. They made a positive impression on me as a youngster. And the names..... How can you beat 440 TNT, or 440 Magnum !! Fond memories of high school parking lot burnouts!
Some where out there is a 30 year old guy who just remembered dropping a piece of metal into a motor when he was 10 🤣
😅
Looks like you guys are going to be customer of the year at the machine shop, hes got work for the next 6 months now lol.
Ohhhh yeah… we’re keeping them busy.
If the corrosion in the coolant galleries is a concern, & it was for me in my 325 Hemi, see if you have a Redi Strip place in your area. I had my block hot tanked, & it cleaned almost all the sludge & crud from the block. Then off to my local Redi Strip shop & a week later, it came back sterile clean. There was NO corrosion whatsoever in the coolant galleries. It was cleaner than it was during the factory machining of a new casting. No core sand, no nothing, so off to the machine shop it went. They were surprised at just how clean it was.
We’re still stuck on the “have it hot tanked” phase… turns out that’s getting harder and harder to find. Machine shops are using a very different cleaning process these days that doesn’t involve caustic solution. Unfortunately that cleaning process involves steel shot, which will rough up our shiny new bores in this engine.
Cool video, Jamie!
I’m REALLY looking forward to your Poly 318 build.😃
Me too! Never done it before!
Been there.. i was asked to reassemble a 1972 Mercedes 3.5 V8 . The car was painted etc and the owner told me the engine was locked solid . I looked in the car thinking that i could see bondo dust everywhere .it was 4" deep on the floors . The painters didn't botther to clean the car before painting,which included soda blasting . They had been driving ybe car around their shop without the aircleaner ( which was blocked with soda ) and of course Bi carb sucked into the engine in sufficient quantities to seize it .😮
Yiiiikes…
The pistons were installed in the wrong holes.
The exhaust valve reliefs and intakes are reversed on some of the cylinders.
Thanks for sharing. 👍🇺🇸👍
You’re right! I didn’t notice at the time, I was too busy marveling at the chunks of metal…
@DeadDodgeGarage I understand.👍
@@DeadDodgeGarage BUSTED!!😀
Ironic that not long after watching this, MotorWeek posted a video about the new Challenger EV coupe!😂 Stellantis is definitely doing a great job at burying the Mopar name for good. Thank God people like you are around to keep the glory days alive!
Did you get a piston to head / valve measurement? It's really easy to have those 915s hit and a few of these angles looked like the piston was hitting the pad.
Near as I could tell, there was no pad contact outside of the foreign debris. There are blue paint marks inside of every spark plug hole, in case that’s what you’re seeing.
It seems almost like a tale of two engines- the reciprocating assembly/intake/waterpump drive looks more like a 1hp+/CI build, but the heads/cam/ block prep look like a quick & dirty weekend overhaul on an old motorhome engine.
Then there's the 'foreign object damage'- FOD- ask the folks on the last Concord flight about that...
I can't believe that metal in the cylinder didn't get stuck in one them valves WOW 👍🏻✌🏻🎶🎵
So they just took a never ran engine after 20 years and... Dropped it in? Fascinating
Yeahhhh… it was “new” and wrapped up and everything.
@@DeadDodgeGarage i bagged the missus, now i cant find her, forgot to write on bag....
@@DeadDodgeGarage nicks garage, had a ''sand'' infested dodge.. those damn chev guys again....
Interesting how a little piece of metal can cause so much carnage. Looking forward to seeing this one up and running again.
I absolutely love the floating Roadrunner. Now I’ll get back to the program
Keep an eye on local yard sales, swap meets, or auctions, for good cheap engine stands.
I have 7-8 of them at my place. It’s Tom that is experiencing a shortage. I guess I could just send him a bill.
@@DeadDodgeGarage harbor freight engine stands for Christmas 😂
That is the nicest looking, trashed engine I have ever seen. I've torn down a few Chevy SB's that leaked out of every possible spot, but looked WAY better than that stored rebuild. Probably a good thing it made the horrible noise, because it would have ground itself apart in short order with all the grit that was in it.
That cam is milder than the stock HP cam, so no real need for the Edelbrock RPM intake but it looks really cool.
Oh, agreed.
We try do nice work around here..usually. Love it Jaime
Wow another build. Thanks Jamie
Great info, and insights on the engine’s issues. Nice job and tight editing. 😎
This 440 was in a shop where tjey were doing extensive bodywork beside it and they didn't cover up and seal off the engine.. a buddy of mine ended up 😭 a 79 mercury Capri 351 4spd and it also sat in a shop where massive or extensive bodywork on vehicles and sand or Media blasting anyway he ended up with the car because it had very low compression on every cylinder on the Dr side made horrendous grinding noises but the guy drove it almost 3 years until it simply locked up, turned out to have sand in the top of the motor and in the oil, the 3 and 5 cylinders mashed the piston rings in place and the number 1 piston had several pieces of busted piston rings on the top of the piston and scarred the cylinders pretty badly and the dr side head was junk it was going to need extensive work new valves machining and atleast 3 valve springs replaced, my buddy pulled it out swapped in a 77-79 Thunderbird 302 and sold the car
*Apparently* there was a cover on the intake the whole time it was in storage, and at the body shop. But… well, the pictures speak for themselves.
I used to do crankshaft balancing and I’m gonna guess due to removing lots of weight on those pistons when they removed the pads the crank required material removal to compensate for what was lost in the reciprocating mass. Both the flange and post ends should have lots removed from the outer counterweights, or on the flange end they used inner counter weights also to remove material (drilling , grinding etc)
Right, that’s what I was thinking. Just interesting that so much was removed from that one counterweight.
Those metal bits would have made a little noise. Look forward to the finish.
12:11 when i was little i helped my grandma with her clothes washing - it sounds like a maytag ringer washer.
JAMIE could be debris for the valve seat job that was cleaned up before heads installed or someone didn't like the person that owns the engine, if you know what I mean 🤔
It doesn’t look like anything to do with a valve seat.
My armchair quarterback sleuthing thinks: Either it was sitting on the ground next to a workbench and the metal bits fell into the intake. Or a very upset engine builder didn't like someone and sabotaged it by tossing metal bits down the intake before finishing the motor. And that was a super minimal amount of oil on those rockers.
Dear old Dad always said "Lube is cheap, Parts aren't" as he's stirring his coffee with his little Snap-On flat head he just adjusted a carb with.
I’d be tempted to reuse that piston again but a super stock racer told me years ago that those hyper-eclectic pistons don’t crack, they don’t bend, they shatter like glass! lol
Edit - To be fair, I own two sets of KBs, great street/performance pistons, his point was that they can’t take a steady diet of ‘all out’, all the time.
So do hardened pressed end pushrods!!
Hypers are not forgiving. If you have enough ring gap, good fuel and a good tune they are okay. Get greedy and....
A lot of issues I've seen with KB is their recommended ring gaps and wall clearances seem to be for low power engines. Set them up like the LS Boys do their 5 second stock bottom end engines and they have a lot less issues.
Enjoyed that, Jamie - thx!
Ah my body shop days….. The painter who was a Tweaker that took the valve covers and carburetor off a customer Corvette that That sat for years in our shop. Of course he didn’t cover anything (The hood was closed!)
High production body shop = sandblasting, body filler dust, rodents, Flying metal, sparks…. Two years later, the customer was coming to pick up the car and the carburetor and valve covers were quickly reinstalled.
We were told the engine locked up during the New engine break-in . Hmmmmmm……
Weird… supposedly this one was sealed and covered. But the owner couldn’t have been there the whole time, so who knows what happened.
Jaime, great teardown work! ok, I really do not like that piston design: I know loads of them out there are running well and getting beat on but that second land relief design is really archaic and was left behind many many decades ago by the OEMs and the aftermarrket. it pushes the top ring up(towards the heat, therefore the larger gaps needed) and just doesn't work well. that and with the amount of Silicon in it(the eutectic line for cast aluminum alloy is above 16%, up to about 19%) is stronger but ends up more brittle after hardening. gives good wear characteristics. I checked on DSS website, they do not list a 440 Mopar piston, have used DSS with good success in the past and have a couple Ford builds going together now. please use a good sealed power cast piston or someone's modern Forged pistons with a thinner ring pack with a coating on top ring. will make more power, be lighter(help with that butchered crank!) and the engine will be happier overall. looking forward to some builds! I'll be building 3-4 engines here in Chicago this winter( 351W Ford, 428FE Ford, a 1600ti BMW, an S52 BMW and another 395" small block Ford that shakes like it's mixing paint!) I play your vids in the garage while working.
thanks!
@13:06, #4 and #6 pistons, didnt notice 3 and 5 in the video, they are probably wrong too, valve relief in the pistons should be: EI,IE,EI,IE.
Oh that’s funny. I paid no attention to that obviously. Yep, driver is the same. They’re EI,EI,IE,IE… cool trick.
Happy holidays if you celebrate you are still my favorite Mopar guy anywhere . Be dafe enjoy and have fun.
To you as well! Thank you! We got a giant tree this year and lights everywhere. Mrs. Jamie is in an uncommonly festive mood.
19:59 experiment to increase fuel atomization. 🤣 Or for the explosion to have more "grip" to drive the piston down harder.
Those Kieth Black pistons cost someone, good money back in the day.
Just for comment, it appeared to have a chevrolet base oil filter on it ,and it should have had a ford base filter. Very close to a filter failure if it was left together very long. This appears to be an engine that was assembled and left sitting in the shop for a while. It was left open and collected some debris and sand, was fired up and had bad results. I would like to hope that a disgruntled employee didn't drop some roll pins or u-joint bearings into it to get back at someone. But, I've worked in a few shops and saw a lot of ignorant/immature behavior. * Had to add this .... I once went with a friend to one of his friends shops. (okay, actually he was working out of his garage) and the genius was running an engine at fast idle and sprinkling borax down the carb "trying to get those hard chrome - moly rings to seat". I dunno what, but I never went there again.
😮 supposedly it was covered. But it was also built 24 years ago. Who knows what could’ve happened?
A Dodge Terducken - an orange coated puzzle, obscuring a slagged mystery, wrapped in a sandy 440 enigma....
Lots of odd things going on here. Maybe the guy built it on a beach😂 maybe extra things were added to the intake because someone was not happy. This is a long shot but check the valve seats. I did a 67 as i told you years ago that had the wrong pistons because 67 is special do to the 915 heads. But when i took the heads apart one exhaust seat was broken. Not sure why. The machine shop was how and why shocked too. Kb makes nice pistons but those are weird.
They’re all brand new exhaust seats, but you can bet I’ll be checking them out…
@DeadDodgeGarage as you should young man. And remember believe nothing and check everything. At my age check it thrice.
At least now it will be fixed the right way.
I may have missed it, but did you determine what the pieces of metal were? Aluminum, cast iron, or steel? A magnet can be used to determine if it is ferrous or not, of course. A spark test can be done to differentiate between cast iron and steel. Touch the end to a grinding wheel, long yellow sparks = steel. Short red sparks = cast iron. The 'sand' or grit may be from the machining for the new seats. And was never properly cleaned.
the volvo/penta Inboard Outboards or XP engines are a regular 350 GM engines, they have all the accessories on one big plate, similar as seen here. I like them, i can have the power steering pump, tensioner, alternator and raw water pump off the front of the engine quicker than i can disconnect the power steering hoses.
Funny enough, I own one of those. My SeaRay was repowered with a Volvo Penta 5.7 Duo Drive setup. I haven’t had to had it down to that level… yet…
looks like back to the machine shop for a going through
Yeeeep…
I think we all kno what's gone on here, not all shops/customers are good ppls.
Well… maybe.
Another good video Jaime how the hell did sand to get in the block you’re probably right fell inside the carburetor uncovered lol
Sand would’ve had to go in elsewhere. Either when intake valley was open, or valve covers were off. But who knows.
As Dave would say from EEV "don't turn it on, take it apart"
You are rebuilding Christmas because you have to be a skill mechanic to build them in the beginning most people will shovel lace because they're easier and cheapray keep app the good work
It seems to me that bits and pieces could be carb parts and or linkages that vibrated loose and fell in. Doesn't feel like they hot tanked that block to get it clean. That could be casting sand that never came out too. @Jamie the blown Hemi idea...the manifold seems to be the most expensive part of the kits so Ebay and Racing Junk plus hot rod hi performance swap meets are a good bet. As far as a 6-71 look for rebuilt GMC cased kits instead of the modern 9-12 rib cases since its a street motor.
Did I say I was going to run a blower? I mean I’ve been considering it… but I don’t think I said it here. Haha. Honestly, for what you’re getting, I don’t think the kits seem that outlandishly expensive. Not cheap… but it’s not supposed to be.
@@DeadDodgeGarage No, you didn't say you would but for looks wise either a blower or stacked injection with modern efi.
Jamie, when you get to the A block could you point out the differences in the oil drank back hole location between the A and LA?
The poly head engine did have a drain back hole, but it’s not there at all on the LA engine. I’ll try to point that out next time I’m doing poly stuff.
@DeadDodgeGarage thanx, I'd appreciate it. Been curious for some time now.
Awesome, I'm definitely looking forward to some poly content!
Oof...between the garbage in the cylinders and the 'gritty' oil....I'm surprised the engine is in as good as shape as it is.
The cut bits look like they came from valve reliefs but more likely is from the machine shop and also blasting the block for paint was sand
Not cut off of anything. It was thin, rectangular, straight material. I still don’t know what it came from.
Hey, you know those parts we were missing from the carb, found them!
lol
😅
That counterweight on the crank ... oof. That would give me pause.
Yeahhh… I’ve never seen anything like that. It looks pretty hacky.
I can prolly remove the oil pan on my 440 e-body with the engine in place, but is there enough room to remove the pick up tube? Its a milodin 7 quart deep sump. And thanks for the info.
Slag in the cylinder was not on my 2024 bingo card
It's really weird that it can appear so nice on the outside but ugly on the inside. This is an actual example of why car guys have trust issues. It's because of getting burned a time or two, so now we don't trust a strangers work. You'll get it fixed I'm sure, but going with a full rebuild would be best. Tanked, checked for cracks the whole 9.
These days, 440 parts aren't as popular as they were 20 years and now cast piston for 440's are nearly as expensive as forged pistons. The 440-6 barrel engines originally got a thicker timing cover gasket to allow for machining variations in the 440 block that might run the thicker chain too close to the timing cover. Many C-body oil pans will fit into many B-body cars. Some non-high performance 383 oil pans will not clear the 440 crankshaft, as they run closer to the crankshaft than 440 pans and engines with windage trays. Some aftermarket windage trays require trimming, but Mopar windage trays usually fit alright, unless they changed at some point. Comp Cams Hi Energy cams have mild cam lobes that don't require as much valve springs as the more aggressive Magnum and Xtreme Energy cam lobes require. I've had good luck with the KP pistons in small block bores, such as the 360, but the larger diameter ones, such as the 440 seem to fail more easily and they are designed to run tighter in the bores than forged pistons. The forged pistons are so much stronger. The Hi Energy cam lobes are more aggressive than the factory cam lobes and might better with slightly heavier springs than the Comp Cams springs. Isky makes very high quality Six-Pack replacement valve springs, designed to be installed at 1.850". They make good 340 replacement springs too. The 10 degree retainers and keepers from Comp Cams prevents the springs from "settling" at a 0.020" longer length, common with 7 degree locks.
Lots of good info here, but I do have to wonder what 383 pans you’re referring to. That’s news to me. Don’t think I’ve ever put together a 383 without a windage tray. Early stuff? I know the C-body pan generally works. The only setup that sticks out in my mind as being really picky about only fitting the right pan is the ‘73+ B-body.
@@DeadDodgeGarage The 383 High Performance engines got 440 oil pans so they clear the windage tray. Many 361-383 B-body windage trays that are not high performance versions with windage trays have the ends / side narrower. The 67-68 but not the 69 A-body pans may be similar. They have more taper on the front and back than the 440 oil pans. Early 383 pans, before the 68 383 HP windage tray models are usually tapered on the ends, if they haven't been changed. The tapered end 361-383 pans won't allow a windage tray, unless the tray is trimmed in length, on both ends, to be just over the sump. 440 Isky single valve spring with damper, made of really good steel is PN 3605-D. Isky says height is 1.875", but that's a bit light and can be 1.83" - 1.86". Their 340 valve spring is PN 3105-D @ 1.700" which is much better than the originals. The current best mechanical 440 fuel pump available I've found is the one still branded as "Carter". Better than Holley or Edelbrock pumps and the Holley is better than the Edelbrock.
Just in time on my lunch break 👌
Nailed it!
That highly unorthodox method of weight removal on the counterweight has me intrigued, I hope a viewer will be able to add some more background.
Yeah I definitely have questions about that myself…
Don't eat the forbidden peanut butter!
I don’t recommend it 😅
Yikes, such strange debris to find in an engine.
I would like to find a couple of wore out rebuilds to get. A 426/413 wedge 383 and a slant 6 the good ones.
Is that a crack on the number two piston by the KB cast logo?
I don’t think so? But I’ll look again.
Filter was just used for storage is my guess, or just to test engine, then store it.
Gravy should be chunky.... combustion chambers should not.
In my universe..... EVERYTHING is a core until I see or hear it run.
That’s the right way to operate. I’ve had… mixed luck with “running” engines over the years. Mostly bad.
I was just going to say - " Saboteur' ! ! ? ? " Before scrolling down
me too prolly a chev nut..
Chrysler Archeology !
All those motors to re build. And parts all over and shit getting done !!!!! All talk and no motors !!!! Somebody help this guy !!!!!
I’m gonna be fine
Ever determine what was causing the grind on crank rotation? Bearing? Thrust? Messed up crank?
It was the chunk in #8 crashing into the head… it went away after the head was off. Apparently I forgot to film confirming that.
Gotcha! Thanks for the confirmation. I was at the point of thinking the crank might have been wobbly. ;-)
What was the noise and catch in the crank rotation?
The chunk of metal in the #8 cylinder hitting the head… as soon as that head was off it spun like butter. I guess I didn’t get a shot explaining that.
10:08 doesn’t gas dissolve silicone? Isn’t this a bad idea?
Felpro seem to think it’s a fine idea, given that they ship silicone with the tray and tell you to do it.
Maybe MO Larry and Curly worked on it before why certainly
What would a rough piston surface cause?
'I think this is the nicest looking full of sand engine Ive ever worked on'
I know KB pistans are good stuff but Ive never seen an automotive piston with that type of distance between the top and second rings. Racing design?
I’ve seen it before. Raised top ring. Someone in another comment was discussing that design, and how it’s a bad idea and pretty much doesn’t exist anymore.
I found what looked like sand inside an engine once also, couldn't for the life of me figure where it came from though.
4:34 Worst oil pans to remove in the world ever!… were the 7.3 international v8’s in around 99’-01’ that Ford used in the super duty truck line. They sucked!! Only oil pans I ever saw that rotted away from the inside out.
It’s worse than that, because once you’ve jacked the engine up to just barely get the pan out, you have to wait a week for oil to stop leaking down the back wall of the block to have any hope of sealing it with silicone - which, because there is no gasket, is all you can use! I have a pair of pants and one of my favorite shirts that are both permanently marked with gray silicone from the one I did. Anyway, related, I did recently replace an oil pan on a 4.0 Jeep because it was rusting half way up…
I’ve found coins inside machinery before, if was sitting on the floor at some point, kids love to put coins in the money box.
😮
The only engine from the leaded fuel days that I've seen need valve seats was an aluminum headed engine. I'm not quite sure why but iron heads seem to be ok
Apparently Ford FE heads have issues, among others… but these never seem to.
Had a 427 Chevy that valve seats got smaller. I couldn’t figure out why the lash kept getting loose. Lol
It wasn't solder was it? Maybe they were checking squish then the motor changed hands?
The big chunk certainly wasn’t.
Yeah my 440 has been sitting for 25 years 😅
Incredible….
I'm ASSUMING the jamming was from the chunks of debris? Seems like sabotage with a handful of sand and a couple of machine screws or some such down the intake...
Yes, what’s odd is that I swear I got a clip showing that it turned freely once the bits were out, but that seems to have missed the cut? I’m not sure what happened there - but it turned smoothly once the heads were off. You’re not the only one with that theory. Personally, I prefer to imagine negligence. But I could be wrong.
If those chunks of metal made it through the valves, wouldn't you think there would be some damage to the valve seats and/or valves?
It’s definitely possible. We’ll see.
Lets see the 273 rebuilds
Mine is at the machine shop as we speak! I’m not sure what the plan is for this other one. Pistons will be challenging…
+1 for sabotage,but who really knows what happened and when.Sucks for the owner for sure.
10 engines😮wow
Yeah it’s kind of a lot…
"Let ye who is without compression cast the first block" ?
Someone had a face full of sand and sneezed into that intake and it blew a 16 penny nail in there too. That’s all I got.
😅