You can see the moment Apollo seals his own fate. If u go back u will hear Apollo tell Kirk to scrape the ship for supplies they will need "...and I'll crush its empty hull". As soon as he said that, it was all over for him. You can physically beat Capt. Kirk. U can torture Capt. Kirk. U can do all manner of harm to the man BUT once they threaten the Enterprise. They might as well be committing suicide.
@@rickjohnston2667 That probably explains why Scotty kept charging at Apollo at the risk of his own life. He was only hiding his devotion to the Enterprise by claiming it was concern for Lt. Palamas.
As a kid watching this I thought it was just another fun episode, but watching it as an adult, it falls into the category of one of the sadder episodes. Kirk’s line at the end, “Would it have hurt us, I wonder, just to have gathered a few laurel leaves?” always stabs at my heart. (btw… loved the Star Trek Continues episode that closes out this storyline!!)
In 2012, at the age of 83, Actor Michael Forest(Apollo) reprised his role as Apollo in the excellent fan-produced series, Star Trek Continues, in which, in an interesting twist of fate, the character of Apollo earns his redemption. By the way, Michael is not only very much alive today(as you might expect from a "god"😊), but he will be celebrating his 95th birthday next month.
She was also in The Manchurian Candidate (1962). I found it funny her voice sounds so light (almost makes you think she's an airhead). But she was a fine actress. She worked on good causes too. So she was not just beautiful, but seemed to be a very wonderful person.
This also shows off a common misconception about her. People tend to assume that she is a xenolinguist, like the communications officer on "Enterprise". But if she was, she would wear a blue science department uniform. She wears Engineering red, because she's actually a communications technician.
You really have to admire Michael Forrest's commitment to the role of Appolo. Much like Roy Jenson as Cloud William did, he had to sell a character in a ridiculous outfit and make him believable and understandable.
The fan production known as Star Trek Continues produced an excellent episode called “Pilgrim Of Eternity” that is a direct followup to “Who Mourns For Adonais?” It reveals what happened to Apollo and even brings back Michael Forrest to reprise his role. It’s quite decent. Also of note is that Chris Doohan, the son of James Doohan (who played Scotty) assumes the role his father made famous. ruclips.net/video/3G-ziTBAkbQ/видео.html
Agree. I love Star Trek Continues. I really hope BunnytailsReacts will watch and comment on all those episodes of Star Trek Continues after TOS. Hope she also watches the Animated Series which is basically another season of TOS.
A little bit late for that comment, but yes, absolutely right. And it is not owned by Paramount, it would probably not be a copyright claim to make one-on-one reaction videos to them. Since I've seen this fan series, I think this could have been the fourth season, as well as it captured the reality of the original series. Like say the animated series is the fifth.
Star Trek Continues has its moments, and its production quality is outstanding, but it’s not above criticism as an authentic followup to TOS given a lot of its sensibilities and perspectives are rooted in today rather than the 1960s.
There is a series on RUclips called Star Trek Continues (2015?). Its a fan made series about the original Star Trek series. One of the episodes revisits with an older Apolo (original actor)
Rod Roddenberry, Gene Roddenberry’s son said if his father were alive, his father would put his stamp of approval in making Star Trek Continues as canon completing Kirk’s Enterprise five year mission leading up to the motion picture.
James Doohan's Montgomery Scott is a combination of utter competence in keeping the Enterprise running constantly, and occasional lapses into impetuosity. He is a lifelong bachelor, who responds to beautiful women who appreciate him. Great character portrayal.
Her reaction to “Wolf in the Fold” (coming up after the next two outstanding episodes) will be… interesting. Scotty is even more problematic in that ep.
I'll give you a pass for praising Doohan's portrayal of Scotty in this episode, but the writing of his behavior in the script is asinine. He wasn't an "impetuous" adult in this episode. He was a ridiculous, immature, love-struck adolescent, written out of character just to drive the plot. In storytelling, that's an unpardonable sin.
This episode, and The Lights Of Zetar, shows Scotty at his love-lorn worst , IMO. Scotty is great almost all the time, but Scotty in love is so cringey.
Two things I always enjoy in this episode: Spock expressing his confidence in Uhura always blows me away. I don't think Spock ever complimented anyone else to that degree, ever, and the battle between the Enterprise and Apollo. So cool. And Spock on the bridge during the conflict is so calm and chill about it
Spock definitely proves his command abilities here. And the two characters who were the biggest stretch to be there at all, a black woman and an alien, showing competence and mutual respect under stress presented a signature moment of what Star Trek was about.
Bit of trivia: the outfit Adonais gives Lieutenant Parish was designed by William Theiss. The part covering her chest was basically only held in place by the train going over her shoulder and gravity. He once said : "The sexiness of an outfit is directly proportional to the perceived possibility that a vital piece of it might fall off."
Let's go even further. Leslie wore that same dress several months later, playing a character posing for a sculptor on an episode of Star Trek's fellow Desilu/Paramount show, Mannix, which was in its first season. In that same episode were two actors who guest-starrred in two classic Star Trek episodes coming up very shortly for Bunny.
Kirk's line about needing only one God is less about the character or society of the 23rd century, but more about getting past mid-20th century censorship. The content of TV shows was strictly curtailed in the day, and had to toe the line when it came to controversial subjects. I suspect that Kirk saying we needed no God would have fallen flat.
From what I've read and heard about this episode, this is literally true. The point of this episode is to endorse the idea of more advanced humankind not "needing" gods, or indeed God. But yes, the network insisted on the "one God" line to stave off accusations of "atheism."
Gene Roddenberry was a very outspoken atheist, but in the 1960s, an atheistic message on television would have been considered communist talk. Roddenberry was already on thin ice having a Russian character on the show.
This is one of my favorite episodes. As a kid, I felt really sad for the lost gods. The thing with the original series was its exceptionally intelligent writing, acting, n directing. Subsequent TV iterations are basically soap operas
Okay, “Got your nose!” is perhaps the first time I’ve laughed out loud for a sustained length of time in years! 😆😆😆 Thank you for that; I hadn’t realized how badly I’d needed it! 🥰
"Who mourns for Adonais?" comes from Percy Shelley. It was simultaneously intended to be a reference to the Greek god Adonis, and also a pun on Adonai, one of the Hebrew spoken names for God.
Following Kirk's orders would not be slavery in any sense. As Kirk said, it was her duty and her responsibility to her shipmates. She took an oath to Starfleet.
Interesting commentary on Scotty. 👍 I always saw him as a top-notch engineer and Starfleet Officer, but also a lonely sailor, who would be a sucker for any beautiful woman who was nice to him. His lonely life in the Service was his biggest weakness.
@@indetigersscifireview4360 It's my first memory of watching TV, not my first memory ever (: With that said those aren't bad ones either though they're a bit blurry.
@@sterlingphoenix no I get it isn't your first memory. In fact I was only four years old when the show originally debuted so it's one of my earliest memories of TV as well.
I totally agree about Scotty’s behavior in this episode. He’s far too chill and calculating to be reacting the way he does here. I do like the idea of ancient gods actually being advanced extraterrestrial beings. It’s kind of a pre runner of Stargate in that way.
Scotty's usually calm, deliberate and professional, but he does have a few hot buttons. For example, insult the Enterprise and he can go off. He can really take it personally if it's implied that someone else could improve on his engineering prowess. And without trying to get into spoilers, there are some relationships/interactions with women that affect his professionalism a few different times in the series.
The last scene of the episode in an exchange cut from the final shooting script but presented in the novelization of this episode, McCoy announces that Carolyn is pregnant with Apollo's baby. She decided to name the baby Athena.
The idea of Apollo and his colleagues landing on Earth and being taken for gods is a demonstration of the famous axiom from writer Arthur C. Clarke….”Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”
Keats was a Romantic poet like Shelly. Keats died at 25 of tuberculosis. Shelly wasn’t close with Keats like he was with Byron, but apparently Keats death hit him hard. Shelly and Byron also died young. Shelly died in a boating accident and Byron died of disease on his way to join the Greek War of Independence. Byron is considered a national hero in Greece despite never actually seeing battle.
Fun Fact: this was the first aired episode with Chekov. He has a nameless appearance in Cat’s Paw which was shot earlier (maybe as a screen test) but the episode was aired later.
A lot of people have the same feelings about the way Scotty was written in this episode. It seems very out-of-character, but then again maybe Scotty is just one of those people who goes over-the-top when he falls in love. Incidentally, the original draft of this script had Carolyn pregnant with Apollo's child at the end of the episode. I'm glad they took that out.
They went over the top with this episode.Very profane .Even thinking about what kirk and spock did,staggers the imagination. They actually "literally" killed the god that visited earth and created religion and mythology!
@@ArtificialintelligentleYes, but Apollo wanted to take away their freedom. To keep them captive (and forced to worship Apollo) forever. It was self-defense. It's not like Apollo showed even the slightest bit of willingness to negotiate their freedom.
Carolyn, the lieutenant in this episode, was called the NBC color girl during this time because she has two different colored eyes and near perfect skin tone. As a result, at this time NBC would often use her to set their color balance accurately.
This episode is probably the best example of the work of one of the original "Star Trek" series' most important innovators: that being costume designer William Ware Theiss. In addition to creating the framework for the Starfleet uniform (with most iterations still following the familiar gold/blue/red coloring scheme), he was also the designer of most of the alluring (albeit racy) outfits made for the female guest stars, which miraculously passed inspection by the NBC censors because they were revealing, but not to the point of truly being scandalous. Thus by technicality, the censors could not come up with a credible excuse to forbid any of Theiss' designs. The style and method is known as (and yes, this is the actual name) the Theiss Theory of Titillation (again, I WISH I was making this up), in which the degree in which a costume is considered sexy is directly dependent upon how accident-prone it appears to be. It bugged NBC's S&P department, it made most guest actresses a little nervous (not so much Leslie Parrish here in this episode; she LOVED that pink Greek-inspired dress so much, she wore the exact same outfit again just a few months later for an episode of "Mannix," another production of Desilu Studios), and it puzzled the crew to no end...I mean, seriously! Minimal attachment to the beltline, backless, strapless, a large track of fabric draped over a single shoulder...How DID that thing manage to stay on? Theiss stayed on with "Star Trek" to its very end. After that, he began to do costuming work in feature films in addition to his work on television, even garnering three nominations for Best Costume Design at the Academy Awards. Gene Roddenberry brought Theiss back to "Star Trek" to design the uniforms and guest star costumes for "The Next Generation." This turned out to be a fortuitous career decision, because he finally earned a major award for his work, receiving the 1988 Emmy for Outstanding Costume Design for a Series. It was the perfect way to wrap up a nearly thirty-year career in triumph. Theiss retired from the industry after TNG's first season due to ill health (I'm sad to say one of far too many victims of the AIDS epidemic) and handed the day-to-day costuming duties for "Star Trek" to his protégé, Durinda Wood. He passed away in 1992 at the age of 61. His name may not be that well known, even among most Trekkies, but his stitched imprint can forever be seen within the very fabric of the "Star Trek" universe and felt every time an episode airs, with scores of Starfleet officers proud to wear the very uniform that regardless of iteration, can in some way be traced back to the classic look and design crafted by William Ware Theiss.
Thanks for very good comment. But occasionally Standards and Practices put their foot down. IIRC a small square of fabric had to be added to Lee Meriwether's "Losira" outfit to cover her navel in "That Which Survives," much as Barbara Eden's navel had to be covered in "I Dream of Genie."
The writers of Star Trek have often shown how well read they are in all forms of literature. The lyricist/drummer for the famous prog band RUSH, Neil Peart, was as well. They came up with a brilliant musical interpretation of Greek mythology in their "Hemispheres" album. Also their great song "Xanadu" was inspired by the famous Coleridge poem "Kubla Khan".
Michael Forrest reprised the role of Apollo in the first episode of Star Trek Continues where the character is redeemed when he discovers that worship, love and adoration is not the only thing that can give him what he needs to survive.
21:59, Scotty's has three great interests in life - engineering, scotch and sexy gals in Starlet uniforms. This won't be the last time we see Scotty go gaga for a nice set of gams.
Pollux IV is a fictional planet that orbits a real star. Pollux is the brightest star in the constellation Gemini. It's 34 light years away from our solar system (a little close to be getting its first visit from a Federation starship, but it fits in with the episode's Greek mythology theme).
There is a follow up to this episode, is in a show called Star Trek Continues which is a RUclips series founded by the fans, but don’t let that fact deter you from watching, they recruited original screen writers that worked on the original episode and they even got the original actors who played Apollo. It’s free to watch and as a huge Star Trek fan myself I thought the show was very good they even got James Doohan’s son to play his dad “Scotty” and build all the sets using the original blueprints. There’s 11 episodes the first episode is called Pilgrim of Eternity and continues this story of what happened next. Nice reaction 🫡
It never mattered to 10-year-old me, back in the day, that there were so few episodes of TOS. Re-watching over and over again in syndication was par for the course back when there were only 3 television networks and PBS. The Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, and Star Trek extended their lives by decades in syndication before the expansion of cable television, and later, streaming.
Michael Forrest was the pilot in Cast Away who flew Tom Hanks home for Christmas before his fateful final flight. He was also a biker/hoodlum/alien in The Twilight Zone ("Leather Jackets"). In his interview for the syfy channel he said people see him on the street and say: "Are you an actor?" "Yes." "Were you in Star Trek?" "Yes." "Were you Apollo?" "Yes." "Oh my God. Apollo!"
Michael Forest, who played Apollo, also appeared as: Ugundi on Gilligan’s Island Pilot Jack in Cast Away Among his 263 acting appearances, plus two more currently pending. Born 17-April-1929, he is still alive and well today!
0:37 that scene is so funny in German that I have to translate it here😂😂😂: After she goes for Spock they added a line for Scotty: "I'll also make you a filtered (Coffee) one" Kirk to Bones: " Bones, can you remember that he have filtered one for you?" Bones: " I really don't know if he can filter, his hands will shake by excitement." Scotty: I dont find thats fair(in og he just says Gentleman here) Then after he left the bridge, Kirk to Bones: And I always thought, Scotty is only in love with his Warp Drive...und suddenly he starts to filter. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 So much for the cliche Germans have no sense for Humor. 😅
14:40, one of the things that becomes clearer with each successive Star Trek series is the mindset of humans in the Federation. They seem outwardly similar to us but their inner thinking has evolved. Humans in this time period see the main drive of life is to improve yourself to your highest potential not building wealth. Along your personal journey you are encouraged (almost expected) to use your talents and gifts for the betterment of society. But for this journey to happen, people must be free to choose their own path. Sure Lt. Palamas is infatuated with Apollo. But eventually without Kirk's reminder, she couldn't have stayed in love or loyal to him. Even a gilded cage is still a cage.
About the “one God” line… that was added late in the process. The original script didn’t include it and basically said “we don’t need gods,” period. If memory serves, it came from a network note. One of those things where it would have been too controversial to lean into a post-religion subtext.
The impact of this episode on culture is enormous. There are a couple of short stories with similar themes but this episode changed the image of what aliens could potentially be like in popular culture. It spawned the aliens visiting ancient earth craze of the 70s and you couldn't have the MCU without it. Marvel had Thor before this episode, but the comics didn't explain that Thor was more or less an alien(he was a god and used magic). Essentially this episode establishes the idea of "magic" as advanced technology in the minds of the general public.
Yeah, most everything you say here is nonsense. Sorry. The idea of aliens-being-gods goes back to science fiction of the 1930s and was used in hundreds and hundreds of stories by a hundred other science fiction writers long before 1960.
The title is taken from Adonais: An Elegy on the Death of John Keats by Percy Bysshe Shelley. Line 415 reads "Who mourns for Adonais?". Shelley's Adonais is derived from Adonis, a male figure of Greek mythology associated with fertility. Also, "Adonais" would be the English plural of the Hebrew Spoken Name of God (the Hebrew word 'adonai' simply means 'lord'), so it would mean "Who Mourns for the Gods?
Always loved this episode, such a neat concept, that the Roman/Greek gods were aliens. It also has a lot of Scotty, and that's always great. It's a great friendship episode, if you notice there's a lot of them praising and trusting each other in this one, and that makes it feel good to re-watch. Carolyn is a hottie for sure, and she uses her feminine and compassion energy to great effect. And I actually feel sorry for Apollo. He could have been a LOT more cruel with that power but exercised a surprising amount of restraint (other aliens couldn't). It's funny how you took notice of the first guy to take a hard fall, but I was waiting to see how you reacted to that MASSIVE stunt with Scotty being FLUNG backwards like 15 feet to his ass, but you were speaking and didn't really notice it. That stunt guy needed a case of beer for that. On to how Scotty was behaving, I really think it's playing on that generation's idea of how casual "guy's guys" would be quick to their fists. Star Trek is really like a Navy show, this gives the vibe of those bar room brawls between WWII era sailors, that every shore leave you can expect to have to go round a few up in the jails to get them back to sea. That sort of fist-to-cuffs culture is what Scotty represents. Double that with how they like to make him the most pussy-whipped one; yes, I do believe he's more girl crazy than anyone, Kirk included. Kirk may get in their panties, but Scotty is different, he behaves straight-up falling in love and "catchin' feelings" with babes. So, those combined things make Scott "act out" hardcore and need reeling back in, and from a dude's perspective, he still comes off very relatable. It doesn't come off as undermining his loyalty and discipline. Not quite. Anyway, like all OT Trek, it's kinda corny, but it really taps into my additional side interest in mythology (not unlike Clash of the TItans, etc). Great reaction too! You (like usual) were totally figuring shit out way to quick! LOL!
Young me, seeing that for the first time, thought two things: 1. Uhura really knows her stuff. No way is she the "glorified telephone operator" she was accused of later in my life. She's down in there with a welder, making their comm system do something it couldn't before. 2. Spock, despite his lack of emotion, is an amazing leader, coolly expressing his confidence in his officers' abilities. I would argue all of this shaped my young mind. To me, Uhura being a woman or a person of colour didn't enter into it, and as I grew up, that's how I approached everyone. This was absolutely ground-breaking for its time (the late 60s), and even moreso for the kids like me who would experience it in reruns in the mid-70s.
I have always loved Greek Mythology and for that reason I always loved this episode. Apollo is presented as initially very arrogant. He does not credit humanity advances' in wisdom and technology. It is interesting to see his people, the Olympians had not really advanced at all in five thousand years. I truly felt sorry for him at the end though. The arrogant tyrant became a lost soul. It takes a lot to make a man cry openly. I also really liked the distaste that a worldly sophisticated person like Captain Kirk had at the prospect of having to herd livestock and bow down to someone who would condemn him to a life of slavery. "Damn it Bones I am a Starship Captain not a Sheep Herder!" Lt. Palamas displayed great strength of character when she rejected Apollo after she fell in love with him. One of the reasons that I really identify with Star Trek TOS is the concept of sacrifice. It demonstrates the growth that humanity has attained in this better future. That is why I truly loved The City on the Edge of Forever. Captain Kirk slowly fell in love with Edith Edith Keeler but he knew if he followed his heart and saved this wonderful beautiful woman it would lead to a bleak dark future for all his people. He made the hard choice and the right choice but it cost him dearly quite possibly for the rest of his life. This is humanity at its finest in the most demanding of times. I really liked when Apollo grew in size to intimidate Kirk and his crew. The end was also very sad but poetic. When Apollo asked Kirk, Did I ask so much? and he responded that We have outgrown you. You ask for something we can no longer give. Kirk also talks to Bones asking if it would have hurt us I wonder to gather just a few Laurel Leaves. The Laurel tree was what Daphne, daughter of a river god turned into to escape the advances of Apollo. It was sad that the humans that no longer valued him considered that perhaps gathering a symbol of his unrequited love would be appropriate. It also my guess that the writers of Star Trek TOS series just unconsciously gave humanity a Christian like religion. I do not think it was a deliberate decision. I will also try to not be too repetitive but PLEASE try the Star Trek Continues Web Series before going on the Movies and or the Next Generation. It is of the HIGHEST quality and really connects with the continuity and cannon of the Series and Movies. It is available for free on RUclips.
Great episode. Kirk delivers one of the best closing lines. Very tense resolution 😮. Apollo says that the gods coul😅n't leave earth, which begs the question how he was able to leave.
Agreed. This episode is one of my favorites from the early stages of season two. Some excellent dialogue, fascinating ideas and an emotionally charged ending. Scotty behaves out of character, but a strong infatuation can make almost anyone do stupid things. The writers definitely wanted Scotty to add another dimension to the conflict with Apollo. Leslie Parrish is very convincing in her role as Lieutenant Palamas. She defends Apollo, but acknowledges her duty when Kirk admonishes her to remember that humans were not meant to be enslaved. This was a very well written scene.
@@bunnytailsREACTS There's an ending scene I believe was edited out of this episode,but,I don't know why.The scene is where Dr McCoy told Kirk Lt Palamas was pregnant,I think this scene took place in sick bay.And of course she's pregnant by Apollo.
@@bunnytailsREACTS I remember watching TOS over the years,some tv stations would show viewers favorite TOS episodes ( during the mid-80s-and early-90s )they'd feature this episode in it's entirety.Then on repeat on said episode that ending scene was cut.I have a theory on why it was cut,but,it's not a pleasant subject.
The fan-series Star Trek Continues brings back the actor who played Apollo to reprise his role in their first episode. It was a decent production. Incidentally, the episode also had a guest star who played "Apollo" in the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
Star Trek had some books of short stories by the original writers of each of these episodes back in the 70's that was published by Bantam Books . In this storie, Who Mourns for Adonais, in the end of that story you find Carolyn is with child from Apollo. .
The short story "novelizations" of episodes published by Bantam were all written by James Blish (and increasingly partially and then totally by his wife, J. A. Lawrence), not by the original writers of any episodes. Pocket Books, of course, later obtained the rights to all of ST and has published approximately 2 gazillion original novels by now. Some great, some horrible, many in-between.
Apollo was the god of many things; high-ranking in the Greek pantheon. He was the son of Zeus and Leto, and the twin brother of Artemis. He was the epitome of male beauty, and spoke through the oracle at Delphi.
I think in some ways this episode is speaking more to our traditions of the past 200 years than to the Classical Era that figures like Apollo and Pallas Athena exemplified - Apollo and the Classical Era exemplify Reason and Science, and Roddenberry himself was a firm Apollonian with his own Progressivism - Adonis in my mind has always stood for a fragile Beauty, something worshipped by the Romantics like Shelley in their opposition to the Enlightenment faith in Science - Romantics believed in Passion and the forces of the Irrational, and it's this Romanticism I think this episode is addressing most directly, ironically manifested in the figure of Apollo This is a long comment - because I think this episode is touching on the heart of what this show represents, in ways that connect w many other episodes and their explorations into our values - what would someone like Apollo mean to these showrunners? You ask these searching questions, so I'm putting these considerations on the table CLASSICAL HERITAGE Let me map out my point w some broad strokes - our Western civilization envisions itself as the offspring of Classical Greece, especially Hellenic Athens, which we see as the birthplace of democracy, philosophy, and many other foundational disciplines (including drama), driven by a belief in unobstructed clear-headedness and human inquiry (very much a guiding value of Star Trek) - this tradition we see culminating in the glory of Rome, before collapsing into what we call the Dark Ages, which we see as 1,000-odd years where we reverted to a primitive state, dominated by political fragmentation and blind faith in the Church (keep in mind that I'm describing how Roddenberry and the show-runners would have viewed all this in the 60s - I'm trying to chart out a world-view that would have shaped Star Trek) REBIRTH AND REVIVAL - THE TRIUMPH OF SCIENCE Now we shift to the Early Modern Era of the past 500 years or so - in this view, we rediscovered our Classical roots, and this led to a Rebirth and new flourishing of our Civilization, which we call the Renaissance, which led to the Enlightenment and the triumph of Science as a guiding principle, and this led to the Reformation, where we presumably applied these principles of Inquiry to challenge the Authority of the Church - and this conflict w the Church threatened to throw Europe into a new chaos - (the 60s show-runners would have seen the US itself as a largely Protestant country, founded by Enlightenment thinkers as an experimental attempt to re-create Athenian democracy - and Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek's optimistic future and its utopian Federation is very much a continuation of this American Experiment - the Federation itself is perhaps a vision of America having grown into a new interstellar Rome, founded on the classical democratic principles of Greece and the Enlightenment) Coming to the past 200 years or so - this embracing of Science led to Industrialization, and provoked a cultural backlash against the Enlightenment, known as Romanticism - Romantics like Shelley and Byron valued Passion and Beauty, which they saw in the wild, uncontrolled forces of Nature and the Irrational APOLLO VS DIONYSUS And, more recently, the philosopher Nietzsche has framed human history as a struggle (or a dance?) between Apollo and Dionysus - the Greeks attributed gods in human form to the various forces of nature - both external and our own internal nature - Zeus for the sky and its thunderstorms, Poseidon for the sea and its tempests, etc - and Zeus' children Apollo for Culture (and prophecy), and Dionysus for Wine (and drama) - so, for Nietzsche, Apollo represented Reason and the Rational, and Dionysus represented Passion and the Irrational RELIGION AND AUTHORITY So, this is what I think this episode is trying to do: I think the show is responding to Religion itself here. For 60s Progressives like Roddenberry, in their minds the phenomenon of Religion would appear in the image of the Medieval Church - in their view, this Church would represent everything that their show Star Trek is battling against The Progressives of the 60s would likely see themselves and as championing the Rational, trying to push humanity Forward, and they would see this Church as a force of the Irrational, trying to push humanity Backward, back into the Dark Ages, with their presumed primitive superstitions and blind adherence to Authority - and Star Trek’s image of a heroic martyr would be someone like Galileo, opposing superstition and authority for the sake of Science (note - I'm not necessarily speaking about the actual religion per se - I'm referring to this "Church" as a cultural-political entity that had great power during a certain time in history - I'm outlining a narrative that's taught in any generic high school classroom - this is a widely cited traditional narrative that almost certainly would have shaped the views of the 60s showrunners re their vision of Progress, and how their Future ties into an ongoing History, and what Forces are in conflict over this struggle to realize Utopia) THE TWIST - STAR TREK ACTUALLY DOES WORSHIP APOLLO But here is where Roddenberry and the show demonstrate their own humility and wit, in their penchant for Paradox - just as Space Seed turned the WW2 spectre of the Master Race upside down, positing a dark-skinned Khan as a genuine “Aryan” superman from North India - in the same way, I think, when challenging Religion, I think these writers on some level started by asking themselves “what is MY religion? Who is my “god”? And I think the showrunners realized that Apollo is their god. Apollo is the God of Culture and Enlightenment, the very god of Light that shines on human potential, and points the way towards Progress (Apollo is even depicted as the Sun itself, for Plato the ultimate signifier of Good). This episode could have chosen any god, but it chose Apollo - this is the showrunners’ profound awareness that the best place to seek an adversary is by looking first in the mirror. This is where the show gets its depth. So we see the title is a quote from the Romantic poet, Shelley. The religion of Star Trek is Reason and Progress, and I think the showrunners are asking themselves what they might be sacrificing in leaving Religion behind, what part of themselves might be lost. The content of the show is speaking of a god in general - in fact, this vision of a god as a parental Authority, who demands love and slavish devotion, is actually closer to the Medieval Church and its view of God as a Shepherd - whereas the Greek gods like Apollo were actually more like landlords, who largely left humans alone, apart from demanding their rent So, yes, this Apollo does fall in love, like the Greek gods often did (tho we never heard of such a god offering to make his mortal a “queen” - these encounters were more like brief ... trysts - rather than full-blown affairs involving commitment) But if we remove that romantic sub-plot, then they could very well have used Christ here instead of Apollo, and it would have likely been closer to their main point. So, a Greek god may well have been ... safer, re their audiences - but, again, why Apollo and not Zeus? And, again, IMO because Apollo (as well as Athena) is perhaps closest to conveying what Star Trek itself worships.
Bunny, I noticed that line that Captain Kirk said, too. Just the one God is enough. My thoughts on this are simply that Star Trek is largely a reflection of its time. In this case, the 60s. America 🇺🇸 was still predominantly and unapologetically Christain based. Even though the series was considered pretty liberal for its time. Ironically, this series might probably be seen as conservative today. My, how things have changed. Anyway, I think Captain Kirk told Klingon Commander Kor, back in season 1, that Starfleet is a democratic organization, and Kor interjected, stating that he wasn't referring to ideological sentiment but that they are basically both forces with teeth. Wolves among sheep. Something like that. This tells us that the future adopts a democratic ideology. But probably not like today. Because we'll learn later how much reverence and respect Kirk has for Abraham Lincoln. -OG
Clarifying. Adonias is the name of the festival mourning the death of Adonis. Adonis was said to be the god of plants that lived died and was reborn. As the myth has it, Aphrodite acted as a second mother to Adonis. He was revered by her. Adonis went into the forest and was gored by a boar, said to be Aphrodite's lover Ares in disguise because Ares was jealous. The festival was a sort of representation of a symbolic rebirth of the plants each year. "The Festival of Adonias" (with the different spelling) is a linguistic grammar change that means something (but don't ask me what). In Greek mythology, it's important to understand that he was chosen instead of Adonis because Apollo was a male and the woman in the story was, well, a female. Adonis was said to be loved by both Aphrodite (and other women) and also loved by Apollo (and other men). Adonis was described as androgynous. Who mourns for Adonis? Everybody at the Festival of Adonais. Men and Women.
For a fun overview of Greek mythology you might want to check out the 1981 classic Clash of the Titans. Ray Harryhausen did the special effects, it was his last film before retiring, worth it just for seeing his work at its peak, but it is a great movie overall.
I think that Scotty's reactions reflected what men (or women) felt about the gods 5000 years ago. They believed themselves to be holier than thou and lived off the love and adoration of humans while taking the fruits of their labor too (taking anyone as a mate they wanted, preventing humans from working for themselves or thinking for themselves or making for themselves, baiscally being an overbearing parent)
I really never thought about the title before other than the Greek Myth reference. I guess it could mean "Who mourns for the handsome man?" Michael Forest actually reprised his role as Apollo on the 21st century in the first episode of the fan series, "Star Trek Continues". I know you don't like future information but this is something you wouldn't ever know from watching TOS though the second appearance is non-canon. I never before thought about the similarity of plots with Khan's appearance. Female crew member falls for him, joins him and ultimately double-crosses him to save her crew. The only difference is that Carol didn't get to go with Apollo.
Michael Forest, Apollo, is still alive at 94! I'm always surprised that he was never the lead actor on a 1960's detective, or western, show. He certainly did the rounds; he was on ALL of them! Yet, I would think, with his looks and stature, he would have had his own show. However, I was just now shocked to see how much anime he voiced in later years! LET'S GO, Apollo!
I look at Star Trek (The Original Series) through mentally squinted eyes. The writer/producers are figuring out their universe as they go along. Remember, this was a TV show that had a limited budget where each episode would be shown only once (some episodes a second time during summer reruns) and that would be the end. There were no VCR's, CD's, DVD's, BluRay's or streaming. It's remarkable there is so much consistency! Due to time and story constraints, we, the viewer, are left to fill in some pieces of the puzzles. Apollo and his other gods may have visited other planets where they didn't find the love and adoration they found on earth. Imagine them on the Klingon home world! (I don't want to jump ahead, but the Klingons supposedly killed their gods!) As for Scotty, we've seen him tough and smart when he was in command. In this episode, he has the luxury of not being the captain. He can be a raw nerve and someone the viewers can relate to on a visceral level. Did he act out of character? This is where I mentally squint a little. I'd like to think he would've acted differently if he were captain. Quick aside: I love the character Montgomery Scott and the late James Doohan! I saw him at a convention. He had a good ear for speech patterns and was a natural mimic. Someone in the audience ask James an elaborate question about accents and the questioner had an unusual speech pattern. Doohan answered him in his own speech pattern! When he auditioned, Doohan was asked to do several accents for the Enterprise engineer, French, English, etc. It was his idea to make him Scottish who, traditionally, were ship builders.
I actually read "Chariots of the Gods" and found it to be hilariously unpersuasive. Basically, if the author couldn't figure out how, say, pyramids were constructed, his goto explanation was that alien technology must have been involved.
@@josiahslack8720 Velikovsky was totally a crank and an idiot, but unfortunately we see more than enough people of like-mind all over the internet nowadays.
@@josiahslack8720 For the most part I'm with you on that. I do however like the way it was written. The way he would ask the reader questions, letting us think for ourselves.
Great reaction and insight into the meaning of this episode. Adonai is a word for god. "Who Mourns for Adonais" simply means, "who mourns for the gods". A rather poetic and haunting title for this classic.
"I would suggest, Mister Sulu, if you cannot find out where the power source is, you should find out where it is not. A simple process of elimination." Whenever I can't find something, I remember these words of Spock and follow his advice.
Apollo's flaw was equating worship with love. True love is always bonded with trust and respect - not fear and punishment. Apollo saw humans as something between pets and slaves. When you use cruelty to "make" people love you, your idea of love is a lie.
Ah, yes, this was the upskirt episode. Those costumes were glued on. And Scotty got beaten up more than usual. He is a bit of a hothead and always ready for a fight. We've seen him eager to blast some Klingons on a couple of occasions, and he was pretty combative in the episode "A Taste of Armageddon". He's been concussed and killed so many times, and he enjoys the occasional wee nip, gotta wonder about the damn brainage. Michael Forest reprised his role as an aging Apollo in the first episode of the Star Trek Continues fan series, "Pilgrim of Eternity". His wife plays Athena in that episode. Jamie Bamber ("Battlestar Galactica", "Law and Order UK") also appears. If you get the chance, after finishing TOS, consider watching Star Trek Continues. For what it is, its 11 episodes are very well done. And they hired some talent: Grant Imahara (presenter of Mythbusters and inventor of Geoff, Craig Furguson's late night robotic side kick) played Sulu, Marina Sirtis ("Star Trek, the Next Generation") voiced the ship's computer, and Chris Doohan (son of James Doohan) played Scotty. You might recognize Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant of Doctor Who fame (the 6th Doctor and Peri Brown, respectively) in their guest appearances. Eugene Wesley "Rod" Roddenberry, Jr. also had a cameo. There are a lot of other recognizable actors having parts in the series, as well as offspring of actors from the original series. In the last years of her life, Dorothy "D. C." Fontana did several interviews about the original series, and she had some interesting things to say about this episode and its characters. On the topic of fan series, I'll plug "Star Trek: New Voyages" as well. Also very well done, and many of the original cast reprised their roles in ten episodes. This one has a Sulu episode, starring George Takei, that's a real tear jerker. Regretfully, some episodes were left unfinished due to the legal controversy around "Prelude to Axanar".
It's unfortunate that Prelude to Axanar screwed it all up for the fan based series. We did get a good 2 part ending for Star Trek Continues. Much better than the last episode of the third season of the original series.
BunnyTails, you bring me such joy every time you react to a new episode, for you that is, of the original Star Trek series. Thank you for your wonderful gift and making my day. 😊
Michael Forest is still with us at 94, always a bit of a health nut, with regular visits to the gym to this day. Although he retired from his live acting many years ago, he has been a prominent voice actor for a ton of anime, which may explain how Vic Mignogna was able to snag him for Star Trek Continues. 😃
I was literally getting ready to comment about the sequel done by Star Trek Continues. I'm looking forward to Bunny reacting to that excellent fan series!
Bunny, there's a web series on RUclips called "Star Trek Continues". It's a continuation of the original series, and a few of the episodes are sequels to episodes in this series. In fact the first episode of Star Trek Continues is a sequel to Who Mourns for Adonis. Michael Forest returns in it to play Apollo.
I believe the link to the poem by Percy Shelley is twofold, the first is that among many other things, Apollo was the God of Poetry to the Greeks, and both Keats and Shelley were poets, and also Apollo is depicted as the most beautiful of the male gods, which links with the theme of the poem and the link to Adonis. Of course, there is also a link that Percy Shelley's wife Mary Shelley is often considered the creator of the Science Fiction genre, with her brilliant novel Frankenstein.
Great reaction! You were really in sync with this one--asking questions which were answered very quickly. The premise that the Greek gods were real space travelers is an interesting one. It makes the point that any sufficiently advanced being could be taken for a god, or even God. I'm not sure that Apollo needed worship as sustenance, because he apparently was able to survive without it for thousands of years. However, it does seem to be something he craves, and thus it is unlikely that he would live without it until humans eventually visited this planet. As you say, there are many other primitive civilizations who would have worshipped him--unless he was incredibly nostalgic for Earth's past. But what is the point of forced worship? As for Scotty, I agree that disobeying a direct order is out of character, but it did lead to the realization that Apollo could be pushed to the point of exhaustion and that lead to his defeat. So it was artistic license. The religious aspect was a thing of its time--I'm not sure it would have been written that way today (or even by the time of TNG). It's possible that denying Apollo's godhead might have led some to believe that all godhead was being denied in the future, and that might have been awkward for a 1960's TV show. It would be interesting to know if that line was in the original script or was added by the production crew or Roddenberry. Religion was a tricky subject back then (and still can be now), and the showrunners had to be careful not to offend viewers in certain areas.
Who Mourns for Adonais was taken from a poem by Shelley on the death of Keats. People often get the names Adonis and Adonais mixed up with this episode title.🖖
False. Shelley was comparing his friend to Adonis from Greek mythology, a handsome young man killed by a wild boar. The episode title refers Adonais a totally different Hebrew word that Shelley misused or arrived at by misspelling. Adonais is a Hebrew title of reverence for God that they used because they don't say/write his real name. Shelley had previously translated a Greek poem called "Lament for Adonis" by Bion and confused the words. Adonis makes no sense for this episode while Adonais does.
I think Appollo was most upset about his gym located behind the temple getting destroyed as well. That dude was ripped. Also they had to have used a lot of sticky tape for that dress...
Apparently one of the most hard-working members of the production crew was the double-sided tape that kept Lt. Palomas' dress in place. About the religious stuff: Roddenberry was an atheist, but surprisingly he wrote some lines in multiple episodes that could make you believe he wasn't. It's a bit of a mystery because no one requested him to do this, and he didn't do it during TNG.
A really fun episode. I think it's meant to be reverent and respectful of ancient myths and beliefs, by making (at least part of them) plausible. But it also provides a good story and challenge for the crew of the Enterprise to deal with. I believe that Adonais is just another spelling of Adonis, the Greek God. Lt Polomas does demonstrate her loyalty and Professionalism to her duty. This makes her an important character in the episode. In the original script, Dr. McCoy states that she is pregnant at the end of the episode. That scene was changed or cut... probably due to the censors of the day. I agree that Scotty goes overboard too many times here... but I think it's to give a chance for Apollo to get mad and throw lightning zaps.
The pregnant scene was on the bridge and McCoy let's Kirk know what happens. It may have been cut from the episode but I believe it still remains in James Blish's written version of the episode.
My rule of thumb is whenever a Star Trek ep has a particularly lyrical sounding title, it's almost always: - a line from Shakespeare - a line from some famous poem - or the title of some famous poem - (or inspired by or a reference to one of those) The connection to Shelley's elegy for Keats *is* extremely poetic though about humans no longer needing the gods and seems like a metaphorical lamentation for humanity's loss of a level of innocence as part of its maturity in leaving their world to travel out among the stars.
Thank you for the nice reaction (as always) Bunnytails. This is one of my favorite episodes. Many comments here but didn't notice mention of the longest sustained phaser fire from the Enterprise in TOS. Love the editing in the exchange of Enterprise phaser fire and lightening bolts thrown by Apollo (rocking the ship). Seemed realistic.
If you enjoyed this particular episode, then I think you will enjoy the sequel episode from "Star Trek Continues". The same actor plays Apollo. Also I think you will love the second episode of Star Trek Continues. It features the rights of a beautiful green Orion slave girl and her master, Lou Ferrigno (TV's Incredible Hulk".
notice the ridiculous wig they had on chekov for the first part of season 2. introducing a new character to add some younger viewers, thinking he could resemble davey jones of the monkees lol. the actor who played apollo (michael forest) had one of the best male physiques of the pre-steroid 60s. looking so forward to 4 of the next 7 or 8 episodes (depending on production or release order). have you decided if you'll be doing the animated series, which is canon, is popular with some of the community, but some of us,like myself, dont care about? or going straight to the tos movies? 1 suggestion is a low-budget, non-canon, fan financed series called "star trek continues". 11 mostly very well-done episodes. with its first episode being a sequel to "who mourns for adonais?". scotty irl son plays scotty. all of the casting is spot-on believable, and they use some actors from the original series. such as michael forest as an older apollo. its a well written and acted series that picks up exactly where tos leaves off. i recommend it if you have time. all 11 episodes are available on youtube. if you dont even want to think ahead yet, i understand. you must be very busy. i dont want to stress you out.
It’s a bit far ahead still, but i plan to make a poll and see what people want me to do as far as the animated series go. Either checking out a few recommended episodes or the whole thing. Many people have suggested Star Trek continues so I am definitely considering it as well.
This one fascinated me. One of the first times I saw it. We had finished studying mythology in school and I was still curious about all the myths and such.
I agree with you about what they did to Scotty. He is unlucky in love, for sure. I figure they gave him this attachment as a motivation for him to be the most belligerent of the crew toward Apollo, setting up some conflict with Kirk as well. It probably would have worked better with some random new one-timer crew member, except then Scotty would have been left behind and not gotten nearly the screen time. The topic of ancient aliens and their contribution to humanity as gods was hot back in the 60s and 70s, so this story fit right in. As far as Kirk's line about the one, if he had said mankind had grown past gods as a sweeping statement, it would never have gotten past the network censors because atheism was a taboo topic. They had to approach religion with a lot of disguise, such as in Return of the Archons.
I was very young when I first watched Star Trek. I remember this episode well and it comes down to a scene I really loved (and still do). Apollo tells Kirk he plans to bring down the crew & needed supplies. Then he will crush the Enterprise's empty hull. Kirk's reaction is Golden. Apollo really crossed a line with that statement. You can see the trigger switch activate in the mind of Kirk. It doesn't matter how powerful you are - The kid gloves just came off. Threaten Captain Kirk's ship and you are messing with real trouble now.
Oooh you looked regal in this video bunnytails 😲 So the part with Uhura fixing the communications hardware: apparently that was considered groundbreaking for the time, because you had a African-American woman portrayed on screen as having advanced technical skills. Star Trek has always been really inclusive like that, from day 1!! 🙂 This is one of the themes of Star Trek, godlike beings and how we interact with them, how we could resist them if they threaten us. So glad you are continuing with the star trek journey, I love it! 🙂Star Trek is easily my favorite TV show....well, it's tied with Dark Angel. That's another show you should look into....only two seasons, about 18 year old Jessica Alba as a genetically engineered warrior who escapes the facility that created her, and uses her powers for good in post apocalyptic Seattle (terrorists detonated a nuclear weapon at high altitude, and the EMP fried all our electronics; we are reduced to a 3rd world country with a 1st world military (military stuff is hardened against that)...rest of world is unaffected)....she has super strength, telescopic vision, photographic memory, super hearing, can dodge bullets, heals quicker than a normal person, etc. Great show, thought provoking like Star Trek too. 🙂 For another day though, like I said I still love your star trek videos! 🙂
You can see the moment Apollo seals his own fate. If u go back u will hear Apollo tell Kirk to scrape the ship for supplies they will need "...and I'll crush its empty hull". As soon as he said that, it was all over for him. You can physically beat Capt. Kirk. U can torture Capt. Kirk. U can do all manner of harm to the man BUT once they threaten the Enterprise. They might as well be committing suicide.
Absolutely! The only one who loves the Enterprise EVEN MORE than Scotty is Kirk.
SO, Kirk's revenge is he kills the god that created our religions. Nice work Jim!
@@ArtificialintelligentleHe kills the god that unjustly kills hundreds of humans
@@rickjohnston2667 That probably explains why Scotty kept charging at Apollo at the risk of his own life.
He was only hiding his devotion to the Enterprise by claiming it was concern for Lt. Palamas.
The TOS Kirk, any way. He had no problem blowing her (The Enterprise) up in the movie. I still hold a grudge over that.
As a kid watching this I thought it was just another fun episode, but watching it as an adult, it falls into the category of one of the sadder episodes. Kirk’s line at the end, “Would it have hurt us, I wonder, just to have gathered a few laurel leaves?” always stabs at my heart. (btw… loved the Star Trek Continues episode that closes out this storyline!!)
In 2012, at the age of 83, Actor Michael Forest(Apollo) reprised his role as Apollo in the excellent fan-produced series, Star Trek Continues, in which, in an interesting twist of fate, the character of Apollo earns his redemption.
By the way, Michael is not only very much alive today(as you might expect from a "god"😊), but he will be celebrating his 95th birthday next month.
That was a great episode!!
And he has made it to 95, and is still going.
Be careful with spoilers because she said she WILL be watching Star Trek Continues after the Animated Series. I can't wait!
I love this series
Leslie Parrish was absolutely lovely in this.
As opposed to being hideous elsewhere?
@@docsavage8640 I’ve only ever seen her in this.
@@Temeraire101 Leslie Parrish starred in a film called Lil Abner (1959). It is a fun film which is worth watching.
@@awall1701 Just YT’d a clip. WOW, what a beauty!😍
She was also in The Manchurian Candidate (1962). I found it funny her voice sounds so light (almost makes you think she's an airhead). But she was a fine actress. She worked on good causes too. So she was not just beautiful, but seemed to be a very wonderful person.
Apollo's son was Asclepius, the Greek god of medicine. That's probably why he never gets angry at McCoy.
I love Uhura's "Rosie the Riveter" moment in this! She is beautiful and so is Spock's respect and subtle affection for Uhura.
Usually she is just a “space” secretary.
This also shows off a common misconception about her. People tend to assume that she is a xenolinguist, like the communications officer on "Enterprise". But if she was, she would wear a blue science department uniform. She wears Engineering red, because she's actually a communications technician.
@@PenneySounds she's both, though you see her linguistics ability more in other iterations of Trek.
@@gregoryeatroff8608 She's not both. The ship has an entire linguistics department. That's not her job.
@@PenneySounds you haven't been watching Strange New Worlds, have you?
You really have to admire Michael Forrest's commitment to the role of Appolo. Much like Roy Jenson as Cloud William did, he had to sell a character in a ridiculous outfit and make him believable and understandable.
Yeah, but he really sells it in the gag reel!
@@paulsander5433 Yeah, that was funny.
The fan production known as Star Trek Continues produced an excellent episode called “Pilgrim Of Eternity” that is a direct followup to “Who Mourns For Adonais?” It reveals what happened to Apollo and even brings back Michael Forrest to reprise his role. It’s quite decent. Also of note is that Chris Doohan, the son of James Doohan (who played Scotty) assumes the role his father made famous.
ruclips.net/video/3G-ziTBAkbQ/видео.html
@Warped9 Very cool. Never watched. One minor flaw! During the voting at the end I was expecting (hoping) for Scotty to say "I Captain"!! 🕊️☮️
It's a great episode.
Agree. I love Star Trek Continues. I really hope BunnytailsReacts will watch and comment on all those episodes of Star Trek Continues after TOS. Hope she also watches the Animated Series which is basically another season of TOS.
A little bit late for that comment, but yes, absolutely right.
And it is not owned by Paramount, it would probably not be a copyright claim to make one-on-one reaction videos to them. Since I've seen this fan series, I think this could have been the fourth season, as well as it captured the reality of the original series. Like say the animated series is the fifth.
Star Trek Continues has its moments, and its production quality is outstanding, but it’s not above criticism as an authentic followup to TOS given a lot of its sensibilities and perspectives are rooted in today rather than the 1960s.
There is a series on RUclips called Star Trek Continues (2015?). Its a fan made series about the original Star Trek series. One of the episodes revisits with an older Apolo (original actor)
That was a great follow up series. Wish they did more but with so few episodes, it makes that show more unique.
Great series. Vic knew how to use his industry ties to bring in big talent to volunteer for his fan fiction series.
Rod Roddenberry, Gene Roddenberry’s son said if his father were alive, his father would put his stamp of approval in making Star Trek Continues as canon completing Kirk’s Enterprise five year mission leading up to the motion picture.
I hope she will react to it after finishing season 3.
@@Windmerica I'd definitely watch that. The finale was breathtaking.
James Doohan's Montgomery Scott is a combination of utter competence in keeping the Enterprise running constantly, and occasional lapses into impetuosity. He is a lifelong bachelor, who responds to beautiful women who appreciate him. Great character portrayal.
Her reaction to “Wolf in the Fold” (coming up after the next two outstanding episodes) will be… interesting.
Scotty is even more problematic in that ep.
I'll give you a pass for praising Doohan's portrayal of Scotty in this episode, but the writing of his behavior in the script is asinine. He wasn't an "impetuous" adult in this episode. He was a ridiculous, immature, love-struck adolescent, written out of character just to drive the plot. In storytelling, that's an unpardonable sin.
You’re right. It really isn’t out of character for Scotty to behave the way he did .
@@DMichaelAtLarge Agreed. I quite like mush of this episode, but Scotty was just not well served by this story.
This episode, and The Lights Of Zetar, shows Scotty at his love-lorn worst , IMO. Scotty is great almost all the time, but Scotty in love is so cringey.
The actor who plays Apollo is still alive and reprised this role in the really well done fan film series "Star Trek Continues ".
Two things I always enjoy in this episode: Spock expressing his confidence in Uhura always blows me away. I don't think Spock ever complimented anyone else to that degree, ever, and the battle between the Enterprise and Apollo. So cool. And Spock on the bridge during the conflict is so calm and chill about it
Spock definitely proves his command abilities here. And the two characters who were the biggest stretch to be there at all, a black woman and an alien, showing competence and mutual respect under stress presented a signature moment of what Star Trek was about.
It was a good scene and Spock shows his command ability, by empowering the crew.
Bit of trivia: the outfit Adonais gives Lieutenant Parish was designed by William Theiss. The part covering her chest was basically only held in place by the train going over her shoulder and gravity. He once said : "The sexiness of an outfit is directly proportional to the perceived possibility that a vital piece of it might fall off."
Let's go even further. Leslie wore that same dress several months later, playing a character posing for a sculptor on an episode of Star Trek's fellow Desilu/Paramount show, Mannix, which was in its first season. In that same episode were two actors who guest-starrred in two classic Star Trek episodes coming up very shortly for Bunny.
Indeed... The art of the tease lies not in what you see or what you don't see... But what you might see...😉
@libertubey2199 An excellent example of walking the line between “informative” and “non-spoilery”. Also, I didn’t know that. Cheers on both counts.
I was sure there was some kind of tape holding it in place, but maybe it was Andrea in What Are Little Girls Are Made Of?
I have the same excitement with Bunny's little shoe string top😏
Kirk's line about needing only one God is less about the character or society of the 23rd century, but more about getting past mid-20th century censorship. The content of TV shows was strictly curtailed in the day, and had to toe the line when it came to controversial subjects. I suspect that Kirk saying we needed no God would have fallen flat.
Agreed!
From what I've read and heard about this episode, this is literally true. The point of this episode is to endorse the idea of more advanced humankind not "needing" gods, or indeed God. But yes, the network insisted on the "one God" line to stave off accusations of "atheism."
Gene Roddenberry was a very outspoken atheist, but in the 1960s, an atheistic message on television would have been considered communist talk. Roddenberry was already on thin ice having a Russian character on the show.
@@robertstephens1203 There is religion, but not actual gods.
@@robertstephens1203 He only said that humans tend to believe in just one god. Not that one actually exists.
This is one of my favorite episodes.
As a kid, I felt really sad for the lost gods.
The thing with the original series was its exceptionally intelligent writing, acting, n directing.
Subsequent TV iterations are basically soap operas
Okay, “Got your nose!” is perhaps the first time I’ve laughed out loud for a sustained length of time in years! 😆😆😆
Thank you for that; I hadn’t realized how badly I’d needed it! 🥰
I didn't have quite that reaction, but it was definitely charming.
The hand that reaches out and grabs the ship is that of Gene Roddenberry.
"I've got your nooooose". Damn near spit out my wine at that one.
The smirk on our good captains face when Apollo compared him to Hercules always cracked me up.
"Who mourns for Adonais?" comes from Percy Shelley. It was simultaneously intended to be a reference to the Greek god Adonis, and also a pun on Adonai, one of the Hebrew spoken names for God.
Following Kirk's orders would not be slavery in any sense. As Kirk said, it was her duty and her responsibility to her shipmates. She took an oath to Starfleet.
Yeah, it's not slavery if you can resign.
@@dupersuper1938 Even if she didn't resign. Her responsibility was to her captain and shipmates.
Interesting commentary on Scotty. 👍 I always saw him as a top-notch engineer and Starfleet Officer, but also a lonely sailor, who would be a sucker for any beautiful woman who was nice to him. His lonely life in the Service was his biggest weakness.
This episode of Star Trek is the first thing I ever remember watching on TV!
What a great first memory to have. I envy you.
Cool!
@@indetigersscifireview4360 It's my first memory of watching TV, not my first memory ever (: With that said those aren't bad ones either though they're a bit blurry.
@@sterlingphoenix no I get it isn't your first memory. In fact I was only four years old when the show originally debuted so it's one of my earliest memories of TV as well.
I totally agree about Scotty’s behavior in this episode. He’s far too chill and calculating to be reacting the way he does here. I do like the idea of ancient gods actually being advanced extraterrestrial beings. It’s kind of a pre runner of Stargate in that way.
Scotty is a bit out of character
I think women are his weakness. We almost always see him being a serious engineer and officer, but whenever he has a crush on a woman, he loses it.
As soon as I heard Bunny saying about aliens being treated as gods, first thing I thought of was the Stargate movie and series.
Scotty's usually calm, deliberate and professional, but he does have a few hot buttons. For example, insult the Enterprise and he can go off. He can really take it personally if it's implied that someone else could improve on his engineering prowess. And without trying to get into spoilers, there are some relationships/interactions with women that affect his professionalism a few different times in the series.
@@Stogie2112 Why are I reminded of "Goodness Gracious Me", Cheque please!
The last scene of the episode in an exchange cut from the final shooting script but presented in the novelization of this episode, McCoy announces that Carolyn is pregnant with Apollo's baby. She decided to name the baby Athena.
The idea of Apollo and his colleagues landing on Earth and being taken for gods is a demonstration of the famous axiom from writer Arthur C. Clarke….”Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic”
For me, the really important axiom is the corrolary: Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced :p
@@emdeeeff Obnoxious---but humorous.
Or the maxim of mercenarys "A Big Gun"
Keats was a Romantic poet like Shelly. Keats died at 25 of tuberculosis. Shelly wasn’t close with Keats like he was with Byron, but apparently Keats death hit him hard. Shelly and Byron also died young. Shelly died in a boating accident and Byron died of disease on his way to join the Greek War of Independence. Byron is considered a national hero in Greece despite never actually seeing battle.
Had Chekov finished his sentence he would have said "fluffy bunnies" but you knew that.
I think you meant the fluffy death bunnies
@@RLucas3000 For that you would need the Holy Hand Grenade.
Bunnies CAN be dangerous to the heart.
No, no, no! It was "fluffy SPACE bunnies!" This is a science fiction show, after all! :D
@@geminicricket4975- unless you're a Space Bunny, In which case it is simply a bunny and we are the space people.
Fun Fact: this was the first aired episode with Chekov. He has a nameless appearance in Cat’s Paw which was shot earlier (maybe as a screen test) but the episode was aired later.
A lot of people have the same feelings about the way Scotty was written in this episode. It seems very out-of-character, but then again maybe Scotty is just one of those people who goes over-the-top when he falls in love. Incidentally, the original draft of this script had Carolyn pregnant with Apollo's child at the end of the episode. I'm glad they took that out.
They went over the top with this episode.Very profane .Even thinking about what kirk and spock did,staggers the imagination. They actually "literally" killed the god that visited earth and created religion and mythology!
Apollo wasted no time banging her.Less than 60 minutes. It was a godsend of godsperm. 😏
Wait three more episodes ("Wolf in the Fold") for another example of the writers making very questionable choices concerning Scotty and women.
@@ArtificialintelligentleYes, but Apollo wanted to take away their freedom. To keep them captive (and forced to worship Apollo) forever. It was self-defense. It's not like Apollo showed even the slightest bit of willingness to negotiate their freedom.
@@mmattson8947 Right. I deliberately didn't mention that because it's a spoiler! Bunny has said she doesn't want ANY spoilers in the comments.
In Star Trek Apollo used the phrase “You complete me” (13:04) YEARS before the line became iconic in the film Jerry Maguire.
"you complete me" also appeared decades before Star Trek in the book, Cyrano de Bergerac (1897).
Heath Ledger used that line as the Joker, to Batman
Carolyn, the lieutenant in this episode, was called the NBC color girl during this time because she has two different colored eyes and near perfect skin tone. As a result, at this time NBC would often use her to set their color balance accurately.
Wow. 12:06 Two different colored eyes indeed. Thank you for sharing that and all the other information, sir! All of it quite informative.
The ending of this episode was one of the most spectacular things I have ever seen made for television.
For the record. When earth eels use their electric ability, they shock the hell out of themselves.
Really? Didn’t know that
Earth eels?? Welcome to our Planet 😊 Here we just call them EELS! ☮️
@@allengray5748 Good point, Earthling.
Yes, it's like Canadians referring to Canadian bacon simply as bacon.
This episode is probably the best example of the work of one of the original "Star Trek" series' most important innovators: that being costume designer William Ware Theiss. In addition to creating the framework for the Starfleet uniform (with most iterations still following the familiar gold/blue/red coloring scheme), he was also the designer of most of the alluring (albeit racy) outfits made for the female guest stars, which miraculously passed inspection by the NBC censors because they were revealing, but not to the point of truly being scandalous. Thus by technicality, the censors could not come up with a credible excuse to forbid any of Theiss' designs.
The style and method is known as (and yes, this is the actual name) the Theiss Theory of Titillation (again, I WISH I was making this up), in which the degree in which a costume is considered sexy is directly dependent upon how accident-prone it appears to be. It bugged NBC's S&P department, it made most guest actresses a little nervous (not so much Leslie Parrish here in this episode; she LOVED that pink Greek-inspired dress so much, she wore the exact same outfit again just a few months later for an episode of "Mannix," another production of Desilu Studios), and it puzzled the crew to no end...I mean, seriously! Minimal attachment to the beltline, backless, strapless, a large track of fabric draped over a single shoulder...How DID that thing manage to stay on?
Theiss stayed on with "Star Trek" to its very end. After that, he began to do costuming work in feature films in addition to his work on television, even garnering three nominations for Best Costume Design at the Academy Awards. Gene Roddenberry brought Theiss back to "Star Trek" to design the uniforms and guest star costumes for "The Next Generation." This turned out to be a fortuitous career decision, because he finally earned a major award for his work, receiving the 1988 Emmy for Outstanding Costume Design for a Series. It was the perfect way to wrap up a nearly thirty-year career in triumph. Theiss retired from the industry after TNG's first season due to ill health (I'm sad to say one of far too many victims of the AIDS epidemic) and handed the day-to-day costuming duties for "Star Trek" to his protégé, Durinda Wood. He passed away in 1992 at the age of 61. His name may not be that well known, even among most Trekkies, but his stitched imprint can forever be seen within the very fabric of the "Star Trek" universe and felt every time an episode airs, with scores of Starfleet officers proud to wear the very uniform that regardless of iteration, can in some way be traced back to the classic look and design crafted by William Ware Theiss.
Thanks for very good comment. But occasionally Standards and Practices put their foot down. IIRC a small square of fabric had to be added to Lee Meriwether's "Losira" outfit to cover her navel in "That Which Survives," much as Barbara Eden's navel had to be covered in "I Dream of Genie."
"How did that thing manage to stay on?" His designs probably didn't always stay on; they just threw away the takes in which that happened.
This was the first episode I saw. I still treasure it. Michael Forest had the physique and acting chops for the role.
The writers of Star Trek have often shown how well read they are in all forms of literature. The lyricist/drummer for the famous prog band RUSH, Neil Peart, was as well. They came up with a brilliant musical interpretation of Greek mythology in their "Hemispheres" album. Also their great song "Xanadu" was inspired by the famous Coleridge poem "Kubla Khan".
Michael Forrest reprised the role of Apollo in the first episode of Star Trek Continues where the character is redeemed when he discovers that worship, love and adoration is not the only thing that can give him what he needs to survive.
So this is how Stargate started. I think Bunny would love Stargate SG1. How come nobody reviews that show. One of the greatest of all time.
Completely agreed!
21:59, Scotty's has three great interests in life - engineering, scotch and sexy gals in Starlet uniforms.
This won't be the last time we see Scotty go gaga for a nice set of gams.
Pollux IV is a fictional planet that orbits a real star. Pollux is the brightest star in the constellation Gemini. It's 34 light years away from our solar system (a little close to be getting its first visit from a Federation starship, but it fits in with the episode's Greek mythology theme).
There is a follow up to this episode, is in a show called Star Trek Continues which is a RUclips series founded by the fans, but don’t let that fact deter you from watching, they recruited original screen writers that worked on the original episode and they even got the original actors who played Apollo. It’s free to watch and as a huge Star Trek fan myself I thought the show was very good they even got James Doohan’s son to play his dad “Scotty” and build all the sets using the original blueprints. There’s 11 episodes the first episode is called Pilgrim of Eternity and continues this story of what happened next.
Nice reaction 🫡
STC and Phase 2 are really good productions, all involved have such attention to detail.
It never mattered to 10-year-old me, back in the day, that there were so few episodes of TOS. Re-watching over and over again in syndication was par for the course back when there were only 3 television networks and PBS. The Brady Bunch, Gilligan's Island, and Star Trek extended their lives by decades in syndication before the expansion of cable television, and later, streaming.
those are my favorite shows, along with dukes of hazzard and twilight zone too.
Michael Forrest was the pilot in Cast Away who flew Tom Hanks home for Christmas before his fateful final flight. He was also a biker/hoodlum/alien in The Twilight Zone ("Leather Jackets"). In his interview for the syfy channel he said people see him on the street and say:
"Are you an actor?"
"Yes."
"Were you in Star Trek?"
"Yes."
"Were you Apollo?"
"Yes."
"Oh my God. Apollo!"
Michael Forest, who played Apollo, also appeared as:
Ugundi on Gilligan’s Island
Pilot Jack in Cast Away
Among his 263 acting appearances, plus two more currently pending.
Born 17-April-1929, he is still alive and well today!
@SciTrekMan -- I believe he also guest-starred in an episode of The Dick Van Dyke Show (as an old flame/love interest of Laura Petry's).
I love how sensible and analytical you are.
0:37 that scene is so funny in German that I have to translate it here😂😂😂:
After she goes for Spock they added a line for Scotty:
"I'll also make you a filtered (Coffee) one"
Kirk to Bones: " Bones, can you remember that he have filtered one for you?"
Bones: " I really don't know if he can filter, his hands will shake by excitement."
Scotty: I dont find thats fair(in og he just says Gentleman here)
Then after he left the bridge, Kirk to Bones:
And I always thought, Scotty is only in love with his Warp Drive...und suddenly he starts to filter. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
So much for the cliche Germans have no sense for Humor. 😅
14:40, one of the things that becomes clearer with each successive Star Trek series is the mindset of humans in the Federation. They seem outwardly similar to us but their inner thinking has evolved.
Humans in this time period see the main drive of life is to improve yourself to your highest potential not building wealth. Along your personal journey you are encouraged (almost expected) to use your talents and gifts for the betterment of society. But for this journey to happen, people must be free to choose their own path.
Sure Lt. Palamas is infatuated with Apollo. But eventually without Kirk's reminder, she couldn't have stayed in love or loyal to him. Even a gilded cage is still a cage.
About the “one God” line… that was added late in the process. The original script didn’t include it and basically said “we don’t need gods,” period.
If memory serves, it came from a network note. One of those things where it would have been too controversial to lean into a post-religion subtext.
Interesting. The no god line must have been from Gene himself since he was an atheist.
I would have preferred the “no god” line, but I understand why it was changed.
The impact of this episode on culture is enormous. There are a couple of short stories with similar themes but this episode changed the image of what aliens could potentially be like in popular culture. It spawned the aliens visiting ancient earth craze of the 70s and you couldn't have the MCU without it. Marvel had Thor before this episode, but the comics didn't explain that Thor was more or less an alien(he was a god and used magic). Essentially this episode establishes the idea of "magic" as advanced technology in the minds of the general public.
Wait this started the "ancient astronauts" phase? I didn't even think about the timeline and assumed this w as a result of that.
@@grife3000 Yep, you got it. Ancient astronauts came AFTER TOS.
Yeah, most everything you say here is nonsense. Sorry. The idea of aliens-being-gods goes back to science fiction of the 1930s and was used in hundreds and hundreds of stories by a hundred other science fiction writers long before 1960.
The title is taken from Adonais: An Elegy on the Death of John Keats by Percy Bysshe Shelley. Line 415 reads "Who mourns for Adonais?". Shelley's Adonais is derived from Adonis, a male figure of Greek mythology associated with fertility. Also, "Adonais" would be the English plural of the Hebrew Spoken Name of God (the Hebrew word 'adonai' simply means 'lord'), so it would mean "Who Mourns for the Gods?
Thanks
That's a new low, plagiarizing imdb trivia. C'mon. How hard is it to attribute it?
@@firstenforemost Knowledge is knowledge. How do you conflate sharing it with taking credit for it?
Always loved this episode, such a neat concept, that the Roman/Greek gods were aliens. It also has a lot of Scotty, and that's always great. It's a great friendship episode, if you notice there's a lot of them praising and trusting each other in this one, and that makes it feel good to re-watch. Carolyn is a hottie for sure, and she uses her feminine and compassion energy to great effect. And I actually feel sorry for Apollo. He could have been a LOT more cruel with that power but exercised a surprising amount of restraint (other aliens couldn't).
It's funny how you took notice of the first guy to take a hard fall, but I was waiting to see how you reacted to that MASSIVE stunt with Scotty being FLUNG backwards like 15 feet to his ass, but you were speaking and didn't really notice it. That stunt guy needed a case of beer for that.
On to how Scotty was behaving, I really think it's playing on that generation's idea of how casual "guy's guys" would be quick to their fists. Star Trek is really like a Navy show, this gives the vibe of those bar room brawls between WWII era sailors, that every shore leave you can expect to have to go round a few up in the jails to get them back to sea. That sort of fist-to-cuffs culture is what Scotty represents. Double that with how they like to make him the most pussy-whipped one; yes, I do believe he's more girl crazy than anyone, Kirk included. Kirk may get in their panties, but Scotty is different, he behaves straight-up falling in love and "catchin' feelings" with babes. So, those combined things make Scott "act out" hardcore and need reeling back in, and from a dude's perspective, he still comes off very relatable. It doesn't come off as undermining his loyalty and discipline. Not quite.
Anyway, like all OT Trek, it's kinda corny, but it really taps into my additional side interest in mythology (not unlike Clash of the TItans, etc).
Great reaction too! You (like usual) were totally figuring shit out way to quick! LOL!
It was nice to see Spock be so encouraging to Uhura.
Young me, seeing that for the first time, thought two things:
1. Uhura really knows her stuff. No way is she the "glorified telephone operator" she was accused of later in my life. She's down in there with a welder, making their comm system do something it couldn't before.
2. Spock, despite his lack of emotion, is an amazing leader, coolly expressing his confidence in his officers' abilities.
I would argue all of this shaped my young mind. To me, Uhura being a woman or a person of colour didn't enter into it, and as I grew up, that's how I approached everyone. This was absolutely ground-breaking for its time (the late 60s), and even moreso for the kids like me who would experience it in reruns in the mid-70s.
I have always loved Greek Mythology and for that reason I always loved this episode.
Apollo is presented as initially very arrogant. He does not credit humanity advances' in wisdom and technology. It is interesting to see his people, the Olympians had not really advanced at all in five thousand years. I truly felt sorry for him at the end though. The arrogant tyrant became a lost soul. It takes a lot to make a man cry openly.
I also really liked the distaste that a worldly sophisticated person like Captain Kirk had at the prospect of having to herd livestock and bow down to someone who would condemn him to a life of slavery. "Damn it Bones I am a Starship Captain not a Sheep Herder!"
Lt. Palamas displayed great strength of character when she rejected Apollo after she fell in love with him. One of the reasons that I really identify with Star Trek TOS is the concept of sacrifice. It demonstrates the growth that humanity has attained in this better future. That is why I truly loved The City on the Edge of Forever. Captain Kirk slowly fell in love with Edith Edith Keeler but he knew if he followed his heart and saved this wonderful beautiful woman it would lead to a bleak dark future for all his people. He made the hard choice and the right choice but it cost him dearly quite possibly for the rest of his life. This is humanity at its finest in the most demanding of times.
I really liked when Apollo grew in size to intimidate Kirk and his crew.
The end was also very sad but poetic. When Apollo asked Kirk, Did I ask so much? and he responded that We have outgrown you. You ask for something we can no longer give. Kirk also talks to Bones asking if it would have hurt us I wonder to gather just a few Laurel Leaves. The Laurel tree was what Daphne, daughter of a river god turned into to escape the advances of Apollo. It was sad that the humans that no longer valued him considered that perhaps gathering a symbol of his unrequited love would be appropriate.
It also my guess that the writers of Star Trek TOS series just unconsciously gave humanity a Christian like religion. I do not think it was a deliberate decision.
I will also try to not be too repetitive but PLEASE try the Star Trek Continues Web Series before going on the Movies and or the Next Generation. It is of the HIGHEST quality and really connects with the continuity and cannon of the Series and Movies. It is available for free on RUclips.
Great episode. Kirk delivers one of the best closing lines. Very tense resolution 😮.
Apollo says that the gods coul😅n't leave earth, which begs the question how he was able to leave.
Agreed. This episode is one of my favorites from the early stages of season two. Some excellent dialogue, fascinating ideas and an emotionally charged ending. Scotty behaves out of character, but a strong infatuation can make almost anyone do stupid things. The writers definitely wanted Scotty to add another dimension to the conflict with Apollo. Leslie Parrish is very convincing in her role as Lieutenant Palamas. She defends Apollo, but acknowledges her duty when Kirk admonishes her to remember that humans were not meant to be enslaved. This was a very well written scene.
I really loved his closing line in this one!
@@bunnytailsREACTS There's an ending scene I believe was edited out of this episode,but,I don't know why.The scene is where Dr McCoy told Kirk Lt Palamas was pregnant,I think this scene took place in sick bay.And of course she's pregnant by Apollo.
@@kerry-j4m 😱
@@bunnytailsREACTS I remember watching TOS over the years,some tv stations would show viewers favorite TOS episodes ( during the mid-80s-and early-90s )they'd feature this episode in it's entirety.Then on repeat on said episode that ending scene was cut.I have a theory on why it was cut,but,it's not a pleasant subject.
The fan-series Star Trek Continues brings back the actor who played Apollo to reprise his role in their first episode. It was a decent production. Incidentally, the episode also had a guest star who played "Apollo" in the Battlestar Galactica reboot.
Monotheism comes out in another episode about modern gladiatorial games.
Star Trek had some books of short stories by the original writers of each of these episodes back in the 70's that was published by Bantam Books . In this storie, Who Mourns for Adonais, in the end of that story you find Carolyn is with child from Apollo. .
The short story "novelizations" of episodes published by Bantam were all written by James Blish (and increasingly partially and then totally by his wife, J. A. Lawrence), not by the original writers of any episodes.
Pocket Books, of course, later obtained the rights to all of ST and has published approximately 2 gazillion original novels by now. Some great, some horrible, many in-between.
@@NoHandleGrr I see. Then I stand corrected.
@@NoHandleGrrIf the TOS novels were considered canon, the five mission was at least ten years long lol.
Apollo was the god of many things; high-ranking in the Greek pantheon. He was the son of Zeus and Leto, and the twin brother of Artemis. He was the epitome of male beauty, and spoke through the oracle at Delphi.
I think in some ways this episode is speaking more to our traditions of the past 200 years than to the Classical Era that figures like Apollo and Pallas Athena exemplified - Apollo and the Classical Era exemplify Reason and Science, and Roddenberry himself was a firm Apollonian with his own Progressivism - Adonis in my mind has always stood for a fragile Beauty, something worshipped by the Romantics like Shelley in their opposition to the Enlightenment faith in Science - Romantics believed in Passion and the forces of the Irrational, and it's this Romanticism I think this episode is addressing most directly, ironically manifested in the figure of Apollo
This is a long comment - because I think this episode is touching on the heart of what this show represents, in ways that connect w many other episodes and their explorations into our values - what would someone like Apollo mean to these showrunners? You ask these searching questions, so I'm putting these considerations on the table
CLASSICAL HERITAGE
Let me map out my point w some broad strokes - our Western civilization envisions itself as the offspring of Classical Greece, especially Hellenic Athens, which we see as the birthplace of democracy, philosophy, and many other foundational disciplines (including drama), driven by a belief in unobstructed clear-headedness and human inquiry (very much a guiding value of Star Trek) - this tradition we see culminating in the glory of Rome, before collapsing into what we call the Dark Ages, which we see as 1,000-odd years where we reverted to a primitive state, dominated by political fragmentation and blind faith in the Church
(keep in mind that I'm describing how Roddenberry and the show-runners would have viewed all this in the 60s - I'm trying to chart out a world-view that would have shaped Star Trek)
REBIRTH AND REVIVAL - THE TRIUMPH OF SCIENCE
Now we shift to the Early Modern Era of the past 500 years or so - in this view, we rediscovered our Classical roots, and this led to a Rebirth and new flourishing of our Civilization, which we call the Renaissance, which led to the Enlightenment and the triumph of Science as a guiding principle, and this led to the Reformation, where we presumably applied these principles of Inquiry to challenge the Authority of the Church - and this conflict w the Church threatened to throw Europe into a new chaos -
(the 60s show-runners would have seen the US itself as a largely Protestant country, founded by Enlightenment thinkers as an experimental attempt to re-create Athenian democracy - and Roddenberry's vision of Star Trek's optimistic future and its utopian Federation is very much a continuation of this American Experiment - the Federation itself is perhaps a vision of America having grown into a new interstellar Rome, founded on the classical democratic principles of Greece and the Enlightenment)
Coming to the past 200 years or so - this embracing of Science led to Industrialization, and provoked a cultural backlash against the Enlightenment, known as Romanticism - Romantics like Shelley and Byron valued Passion and Beauty, which they saw in the wild, uncontrolled forces of Nature and the Irrational
APOLLO VS DIONYSUS
And, more recently, the philosopher Nietzsche has framed human history as a struggle (or a dance?) between Apollo and Dionysus - the Greeks attributed gods in human form to the various forces of nature - both external and our own internal nature - Zeus for the sky and its thunderstorms, Poseidon for the sea and its tempests, etc - and Zeus' children Apollo for Culture (and prophecy), and Dionysus for Wine (and drama) - so, for Nietzsche, Apollo represented Reason and the Rational, and Dionysus represented Passion and the Irrational
RELIGION AND AUTHORITY
So, this is what I think this episode is trying to do: I think the show is responding to Religion itself here. For 60s Progressives like Roddenberry, in their minds the phenomenon of Religion would appear in the image of the Medieval Church - in their view, this Church would represent everything that their show Star Trek is battling against
The Progressives of the 60s would likely see themselves and as championing the Rational, trying to push humanity Forward, and they would see this Church as a force of the Irrational, trying to push humanity Backward, back into the Dark Ages, with their presumed primitive superstitions and blind adherence to Authority - and Star Trek’s image of a heroic martyr would be someone like Galileo, opposing superstition and authority for the sake of Science
(note - I'm not necessarily speaking about the actual religion per se - I'm referring to this "Church" as a cultural-political entity that had great power during a certain time in history - I'm outlining a narrative that's taught in any generic high school classroom - this is a widely cited traditional narrative that almost certainly would have shaped the views of the 60s showrunners re their vision of Progress, and how their Future ties into an ongoing History, and what Forces are in conflict over this struggle to realize Utopia)
THE TWIST - STAR TREK ACTUALLY DOES WORSHIP APOLLO
But here is where Roddenberry and the show demonstrate their own humility and wit, in their penchant for Paradox - just as Space Seed turned the WW2 spectre of the Master Race upside down, positing a dark-skinned Khan as a genuine “Aryan” superman from North India - in the same way, I think, when challenging Religion, I think these writers on some level started by asking themselves “what is MY religion? Who is my “god”?
And I think the showrunners realized that Apollo is their god. Apollo is the God of Culture and Enlightenment, the very god of Light that shines on human potential, and points the way towards Progress (Apollo is even depicted as the Sun itself, for Plato the ultimate signifier of Good). This episode could have chosen any god, but it chose Apollo - this is the showrunners’ profound awareness that the best place to seek an adversary is by looking first in the mirror. This is where the show gets its depth.
So we see the title is a quote from the Romantic poet, Shelley. The religion of Star Trek is Reason and Progress, and I think the showrunners are asking themselves what they might be sacrificing in leaving Religion behind, what part of themselves might be lost. The content of the show is speaking of a god in general - in fact, this vision of a god as a parental Authority, who demands love and slavish devotion, is actually closer to the Medieval Church and its view of God as a Shepherd - whereas the Greek gods like Apollo were actually more like landlords, who largely left humans alone, apart from demanding their rent
So, yes, this Apollo does fall in love, like the Greek gods often did (tho we never heard of such a god offering to make his mortal a “queen” - these encounters were more like brief ... trysts - rather than full-blown affairs involving commitment) But if we remove that romantic sub-plot, then they could very well have used Christ here instead of Apollo, and it would have likely been closer to their main point.
So, a Greek god may well have been ... safer, re their audiences - but, again, why Apollo and not Zeus? And, again, IMO because Apollo (as well as Athena) is perhaps closest to conveying what Star Trek itself worships.
Bunny, I noticed that line that Captain Kirk said, too. Just the one God is enough. My thoughts on this are simply that Star Trek is largely a reflection of its time. In this case, the 60s.
America 🇺🇸 was still predominantly and unapologetically Christain based. Even though the series was considered pretty liberal for its time.
Ironically, this series might probably be seen as conservative today. My, how things have changed.
Anyway, I think Captain Kirk told Klingon Commander Kor, back in season 1, that Starfleet is a democratic organization, and Kor interjected, stating that he wasn't referring to ideological sentiment but that they are basically both forces with teeth. Wolves among sheep. Something like that.
This tells us that the future adopts a democratic ideology. But probably not like today. Because we'll learn later how much reverence and respect Kirk has for Abraham Lincoln. -OG
Great Reaction 👍👍👍 One of fan fiction TOS shows did an episode featuring a reprise of Adonias, staring the same actor.
Clarifying. Adonias is the name of the festival mourning the death of Adonis. Adonis was said to be the god of plants that lived died and was reborn. As the myth has it, Aphrodite acted as a second mother to Adonis. He was revered by her. Adonis went into the forest and was gored by a boar, said to be Aphrodite's lover Ares in disguise because Ares was jealous. The festival was a sort of representation of a symbolic rebirth of the plants each year. "The Festival of Adonias" (with the different spelling) is a linguistic grammar change that means something (but don't ask me what). In Greek mythology, it's important to understand that he was chosen instead of Adonis because Apollo was a male and the woman in the story was, well, a female. Adonis was said to be loved by both Aphrodite (and other women) and also loved by Apollo (and other men). Adonis was described as androgynous. Who mourns for Adonis? Everybody at the Festival of Adonais. Men and Women.
For a fun overview of Greek mythology you might want to check out the 1981 classic Clash of the Titans. Ray Harryhausen did the special effects, it was his last film before retiring, worth it just for seeing his work at its peak, but it is a great movie overall.
I think that Scotty's reactions reflected what men (or women) felt about the gods 5000 years ago. They believed themselves to be holier than thou and lived off the love and adoration of humans while taking the fruits of their labor too (taking anyone as a mate they wanted, preventing humans from working for themselves or thinking for themselves or making for themselves, baiscally being an overbearing parent)
Great reaction .Look forward to each show.The actress was in lots of 60's and 70's TV shows.
Thanks!
I really never thought about the title before other than the Greek Myth reference. I guess it could mean "Who mourns for the handsome man?" Michael Forest actually reprised his role as Apollo on the 21st century in the first episode of the fan series, "Star Trek Continues". I know you don't like future information but this is something you wouldn't ever know from watching TOS though the second appearance is non-canon. I never before thought about the similarity of plots with Khan's appearance. Female crew member falls for him, joins him and ultimately double-crosses him to save her crew. The only difference is that Carol didn't get to go with Apollo.
Michael Forest, Apollo, is still alive at 94! I'm always surprised that he was never the lead actor on a 1960's detective, or western, show. He certainly did the rounds; he was on ALL of them! Yet, I would think, with his looks and stature, he would have had his own show. However, I was just now shocked to see how much anime he voiced in later years! LET'S GO, Apollo!
I look at Star Trek (The Original Series) through mentally squinted eyes. The writer/producers are figuring out their universe as they go along. Remember, this was a TV show that had a limited budget where each episode would be shown only once (some episodes a second time during summer reruns) and that would be the end. There were no VCR's, CD's, DVD's, BluRay's or streaming. It's remarkable there is so much consistency! Due to time and story constraints, we, the viewer, are left to fill in some pieces of the puzzles. Apollo and his other gods may have visited other planets where they didn't find the love and adoration they found on earth. Imagine them on the Klingon home world! (I don't want to jump ahead, but the Klingons supposedly killed their gods!) As for Scotty, we've seen him tough and smart when he was in command. In this episode, he has the luxury of not being the captain. He can be a raw nerve and someone the viewers can relate to on a visceral level. Did he act out of character? This is where I mentally squint a little. I'd like to think he would've acted differently if he were captain. Quick aside: I love the character Montgomery Scott and the late James Doohan! I saw him at a convention. He had a good ear for speech patterns and was a natural mimic. Someone in the audience ask James an elaborate question about accents and the questioner had an unusual speech pattern. Doohan answered him in his own speech pattern! When he auditioned, Doohan was asked to do several accents for the Enterprise engineer, French, English, etc. It was his idea to make him Scottish who, traditionally, were ship builders.
Chariots of the gods, was a book and film about people long ago who might have been visited by aliens they thought were God's.
Chariots of the Gods was published a year after this episode...
@@portland-182 yes I know. I never said they got the idea from it.
I actually read "Chariots of the Gods" and found it to be hilariously unpersuasive. Basically, if the author couldn't figure out how, say, pyramids were constructed, his goto explanation was that alien technology must have been involved.
@@josiahslack8720 Velikovsky was totally a crank and an idiot, but unfortunately we see more than enough people of like-mind all over the internet nowadays.
@@josiahslack8720 For the most part I'm with you on that. I do however like the way it was written. The way he would ask the reader questions, letting us think for ourselves.
Great reaction and insight into the meaning of this episode.
Adonai is a word for god.
"Who Mourns for Adonais" simply means, "who mourns for the gods".
A rather poetic and haunting title for this classic.
Adonai is pronounced eye-dough-nigh. Who Mourns for Eye-Dough-Nizes (the gods).
Great reaction!
Love how you're loving the series. Your drilling down into each episode's background is most excellent. Keep 'em coming, ma'am.
"I would suggest, Mister Sulu, if you cannot find out where the power source is, you should find out where it is not. A simple process of elimination." Whenever I can't find something, I remember these words of Spock and follow his advice.
Episode 1 of Star Trek Continues "Pilgrim of Eternity" continues Adonais' story. The same actor plays Adonais.
Apollo.
No spoilers
Apollo's flaw was equating worship with love. True love is always bonded with trust and respect - not fear and punishment.
Apollo saw humans as something between pets and slaves. When you use cruelty to "make" people love you, your idea of love is a lie.
The first scene of the hand and Sulu’s reaction had me expecting him to say something from the Austin Powers film’s ‘describe the satellite’ scenes.😂
Ah, yes, this was the upskirt episode. Those costumes were glued on.
And Scotty got beaten up more than usual. He is a bit of a hothead and always ready for a fight. We've seen him eager to blast some Klingons on a couple of occasions, and he was pretty combative in the episode "A Taste of Armageddon". He's been concussed and killed so many times, and he enjoys the occasional wee nip, gotta wonder about the damn brainage.
Michael Forest reprised his role as an aging Apollo in the first episode of the Star Trek Continues fan series, "Pilgrim of Eternity". His wife plays Athena in that episode. Jamie Bamber ("Battlestar Galactica", "Law and Order UK") also appears.
If you get the chance, after finishing TOS, consider watching Star Trek Continues. For what it is, its 11 episodes are very well done. And they hired some talent: Grant Imahara (presenter of Mythbusters and inventor of Geoff, Craig Furguson's late night robotic side kick) played Sulu, Marina Sirtis ("Star Trek, the Next Generation") voiced the ship's computer, and Chris Doohan (son of James Doohan) played Scotty. You might recognize Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant of Doctor Who fame (the 6th Doctor and Peri Brown, respectively) in their guest appearances. Eugene Wesley "Rod" Roddenberry, Jr. also had a cameo. There are a lot of other recognizable actors having parts in the series, as well as offspring of actors from the original series.
In the last years of her life, Dorothy "D. C." Fontana did several interviews about the original series, and she had some interesting things to say about this episode and its characters.
On the topic of fan series, I'll plug "Star Trek: New Voyages" as well. Also very well done, and many of the original cast reprised their roles in ten episodes. This one has a Sulu episode, starring George Takei, that's a real tear jerker. Regretfully, some episodes were left unfinished due to the legal controversy around "Prelude to Axanar".
It's unfortunate that Prelude to Axanar screwed it all up for the fan based series. We did get a good 2 part ending for Star Trek Continues. Much better than the last episode of the third season of the original series.
BunnyTails, you bring me such joy every time you react to a new episode, for you that is, of the original Star Trek series.
Thank you for your wonderful gift and making my day. 😊
Michael Forest is still with us at 94, always a bit of a health nut, with regular visits to the gym to this day.
Although he retired from his live acting many years ago, he has been a prominent voice actor for a ton of anime, which may explain how Vic Mignogna was able to snag him for Star Trek Continues. 😃
Great episode. There's unofficial sequel done professionally by Star Trek Continues. 👍 👍 👍 👍 👍
I will react to those 😁
I was literally getting ready to comment about the sequel done by Star Trek Continues. I'm looking forward to Bunny reacting to that excellent fan series!
Leslie Parrish was in a movie with Elvis.
She was also in a movie with Shatner-“Kingdom of the Spiders” (1977).
Bunny, there's a web series on RUclips called "Star Trek Continues". It's a continuation of the original series, and a few of the episodes are sequels to episodes in this series. In fact the first episode of Star Trek Continues is a sequel to Who Mourns for Adonis. Michael Forest returns in it to play Apollo.
It's been mentioned many many times. After the Animated Series she will be watching it.
I believe the link to the poem by Percy Shelley is twofold, the first is that among many other things, Apollo was the God of Poetry to the Greeks, and both Keats and Shelley were poets, and also Apollo is depicted as the most beautiful of the male gods, which links with the theme of the poem and the link to Adonis.
Of course, there is also a link that Percy Shelley's wife Mary Shelley is often considered the creator of the Science Fiction genre, with her brilliant novel Frankenstein.
Great reaction! You were really in sync with this one--asking questions which were answered very quickly. The premise that the Greek gods were real space travelers is an interesting one. It makes the point that any sufficiently advanced being could be taken for a god, or even God. I'm not sure that Apollo needed worship as sustenance, because he apparently was able to survive without it for thousands of years. However, it does seem to be something he craves, and thus it is unlikely that he would live without it until humans eventually visited this planet. As you say, there are many other primitive civilizations who would have worshipped him--unless he was incredibly nostalgic for Earth's past. But what is the point of forced worship? As for Scotty, I agree that disobeying a direct order is out of character, but it did lead to the realization that Apollo could be pushed to the point of exhaustion and that lead to his defeat. So it was artistic license. The religious aspect was a thing of its time--I'm not sure it would have been written that way today (or even by the time of TNG). It's possible that denying Apollo's godhead might have led some to believe that all godhead was being denied in the future, and that might have been awkward for a 1960's TV show. It would be interesting to know if that line was in the original script or was added by the production crew or Roddenberry. Religion was a tricky subject back then (and still can be now), and the showrunners had to be careful not to offend viewers in certain areas.
Who Mourns for Adonais was taken from a poem by Shelley on the death of Keats. People often get the names Adonis and Adonais mixed up with this episode title.🖖
False. Shelley was comparing his friend to Adonis from Greek mythology, a handsome young man killed by a wild boar. The episode title refers Adonais
a totally different Hebrew word that Shelley misused or arrived at by misspelling. Adonais is a Hebrew title of reverence for God that they used because they don't say/write his real name. Shelley had previously translated a Greek poem called "Lament for Adonis" by Bion and confused the words. Adonis makes no sense for this episode while Adonais does.
I think Appollo was most upset about his gym located behind the temple getting destroyed as well. That dude was ripped.
Also they had to have used a lot of sticky tape for that dress...
Apparently one of the most hard-working members of the production crew was the double-sided tape that kept Lt. Palomas' dress in place.
About the religious stuff: Roddenberry was an atheist, but surprisingly he wrote some lines in multiple episodes that could make you believe he wasn't. It's a bit of a mystery because no one requested him to do this, and he didn't do it during TNG.
😂
The title is in line 415 of the 1821 elegy Adonais by Percy Bysshe Shelley, and roughly means "who mourns for gods?"
A really fun episode. I think it's meant to be reverent and respectful of ancient myths and beliefs, by making (at least part of them) plausible. But it also provides a good story and challenge for the crew of the Enterprise to deal with. I believe that
Adonais is just another spelling of Adonis, the Greek God. Lt Polomas does demonstrate her loyalty and Professionalism to her duty. This makes her an important character in the episode. In the original script, Dr. McCoy states that she is pregnant at the end of the episode. That scene was changed or cut... probably due to the censors of the day. I agree that Scotty goes overboard too many times here... but I think it's to give a chance for Apollo to get mad and throw lightning zaps.
The pregnant scene was on the bridge and McCoy let's Kirk know what happens. It may have been cut from the episode but I believe it still remains in James Blish's written version of the episode.
When she rejects him and you see the thunderstorm and his face bearing down, that was actually meant to infer she was raped by him.
My rule of thumb is whenever a Star Trek ep has a particularly lyrical sounding title, it's almost always:
- a line from Shakespeare
- a line from some famous poem
- or the title of some famous poem
- (or inspired by or a reference to one of those)
The connection to Shelley's elegy for Keats *is* extremely poetic though about humans no longer needing the gods and seems like a metaphorical lamentation for humanity's loss of a level of innocence as part of its maturity in leaving their world to travel out among the stars.
Thank you for the nice reaction (as always) Bunnytails. This is one of my favorite episodes. Many comments here but didn't notice mention of the longest sustained phaser fire from the Enterprise in TOS. Love the editing in the exchange of Enterprise phaser fire and lightening bolts thrown by Apollo (rocking the ship). Seemed realistic.
If you enjoyed this particular episode, then I think you will enjoy the sequel episode from "Star Trek Continues". The same actor plays Apollo. Also I think you will love the second episode of Star Trek Continues. It features the rights of a beautiful green Orion slave girl and her master, Lou Ferrigno (TV's Incredible Hulk".
notice the ridiculous wig they had on chekov for the first part of season 2. introducing a new character to add some younger viewers, thinking he could resemble davey jones of the monkees lol. the actor who played apollo (michael forest) had one of the best male physiques of the pre-steroid 60s. looking so forward to 4 of the next 7 or 8 episodes (depending on production or release order). have you decided if you'll be doing the animated series, which is canon, is popular with some of the community, but some of us,like myself, dont care about? or going straight to the tos movies? 1 suggestion is a low-budget, non-canon, fan financed series called "star trek continues". 11 mostly very well-done episodes. with its first episode being a sequel to "who mourns for adonais?". scotty irl son plays scotty. all of the casting is spot-on believable, and they use some actors from the original series. such as michael forest as an older apollo. its a well written and acted series that picks up exactly where tos leaves off. i recommend it if you have time. all 11 episodes are available on youtube. if you dont even want to think ahead yet, i understand. you must be very busy. i dont want to stress you out.
It’s a bit far ahead still, but i plan to make a poll and see what people want me to do as far as the animated series go. Either checking out a few recommended episodes or the whole thing.
Many people have suggested Star Trek continues so I am definitely considering it as well.
Hi Bunny,if you plan to watch all the star trek series at one episode a week,it will take you a long time.
This one fascinated me. One of the first times I saw it. We had finished studying mythology in school and I was still curious about all the myths and such.
I agree with you about what they did to Scotty. He is unlucky in love, for sure. I figure they gave him this attachment as a motivation for him to be the most belligerent of the crew toward Apollo, setting up some conflict with Kirk as well. It probably would have worked better with some random new one-timer crew member, except then Scotty would have been left behind and not gotten nearly the screen time.
The topic of ancient aliens and their contribution to humanity as gods was hot back in the 60s and 70s, so this story fit right in. As far as Kirk's line about the one, if he had said mankind had grown past gods as a sweeping statement, it would never have gotten past the network censors because atheism was a taboo topic. They had to approach religion with a lot of disguise, such as in Return of the Archons.
Trivia: The guy who played Apollo later was a character in the soap, " As The World Turns".
Adonis is the Roman name for Apollo, adonais is a misspelling.
I was very young when I first watched Star Trek. I remember this episode well and it comes down to a scene I really loved (and still do). Apollo tells Kirk he plans to bring down the crew & needed supplies. Then he will crush the Enterprise's empty hull. Kirk's reaction is Golden.
Apollo really crossed a line with that statement. You can see the trigger switch activate in the mind of Kirk. It doesn't matter how powerful you are - The kid gloves just came off. Threaten Captain Kirk's ship and you are messing with real trouble now.
Oooh you looked regal in this video bunnytails 😲 So the part with Uhura fixing the communications hardware: apparently that was considered groundbreaking for the time, because you had a African-American woman portrayed on screen as having advanced technical skills. Star Trek has always been really inclusive like that, from day 1!! 🙂
This is one of the themes of Star Trek, godlike beings and how we interact with them, how we could resist them if they threaten us.
So glad you are continuing with the star trek journey, I love it! 🙂Star Trek is easily my favorite TV show....well, it's tied with Dark Angel. That's another show you should look into....only two seasons, about 18 year old Jessica Alba as a genetically engineered warrior who escapes the facility that created her, and uses her powers for good in post apocalyptic Seattle (terrorists detonated a nuclear weapon at high altitude, and the EMP fried all our electronics; we are reduced to a 3rd world country with a 1st world military (military stuff is hardened against that)...rest of world is unaffected)....she has super strength, telescopic vision, photographic memory, super hearing, can dodge bullets, heals quicker than a normal person, etc. Great show, thought provoking like Star Trek too. 🙂 For another day though, like I said I still love your star trek videos! 🙂
I have a Christmas ornament of the hand holding the Enterprise. Great find at Hallmark last year. 😂
Great casting for Apollo and Carolyn. This was one of my favorite episodes as a kid.