We would have had to lift the rock up by pulling if it wasn't for the Z2R - we've come so far in our outdoor testing! 20% off Z2Rs until December 18th!
Perfect Descent uses a centrifugal clutch style device, looks like a drum break activated by the spin. Trueblue uses an eddy-current breaking system it looks like.
My trust in gear goes up with every episode, even though we're seeing things break. The insane measures you had to take to damage an old auto belay under worst case conditions with gratuitous overloading just goes to show how amazingly safe these are. Thank you for your gear fear breaking services.
Yep that's exactly what it is and it comes with the advantage of no wear on the break pads, since it doesn't have any. Would be interesting to see how quickly the pads wear on a perfect descent. And it would also be interesting to see if the permanent magnets lose magnetic force over time. Maybe one day a gym could send in their worn auto belays for further testing. I'd be curious to see how the gears wear as well.
@@mobbat42 The main reason magnets lose their strength is through heat, but it's pretty high like 80C (176F) for N52 neodymium magnets. The internal metal parts are pretty beefy so I'd be surprised if it got that hot inside, but would be interesting to know how warm it gets during back-to-back-to-back descents.
We've had 2 major injuries at the gym I work in since they opened 10 years ago, both were caused by customers not clipping into the auto belay, it's kinda of wild to me that they didn't even notice while climbing
Even with some pretty massive tarps in front of them it's amazing how people still don't clip in. But in my gym I think bouldering and belayer incompetance still have accounted for more serious injuries in the past 10 years than the autos.
The magnetic version probably experiences less wear over time, just because you're not using sacrificial pads and a clutch. It does use black magic to work, though. Magnets induce eddy currents which induce an opposite magnetic force which causes a ton of drag.
I have a number of friends who work at Trublue. They work through magnetic eddy currents like this video describes: ruclips.net/video/NqdOyxJZj0U/видео.htmlsi=jxTShFhWIbAxSCmV. The big advantage of that is that there is no contact between a brake pad and a rotor/drum. That means there are no pads that need replacing and the braking force wont change over time as the pads wear down. My guess on how it failed is that the heat built up faster than it was designed which caused the magnet to explode. Personally though, if I wanted a personal autobelay that I was going to trust to work for years without annual servicing, I'd choose a Trublue. If I owned a Perfect Descent, I'd definitely be sending it in for servicing as those brake pads will wear away.
I don’t think they understood how dangerous that spring is. It could literally kill you - that much force on a thin strip of metal can easily cut an artery. Yes - PD uses a friction-based mechanism and True Blue uses a magnet-based mechanism. I’d trust these (in a reputable gym) over a human belayer 100% of the time. To add to the conclusion - the complexity of the True Blue meant that it failed in an obvious way - it had failed internally and no longer worked. The simplicity of the PD meant that it had failed (the retention screw was bent, compromising the device), but it still appeared to work. I’d rather have a device that’s more likely to fail safe than to fail dangerous. Of course, this was only one break test on each, so we can’t draw sweeping conclusions.
when i worked at a climbing gym we had trueblue reps come and explain the equipment. it uses "lenz's law," like this video, ruclips.net/video/KNbtopgzwCQ/видео.html i also think they said something about how it fails too, but i forget. but they did say even if it broke inside it would never just drop the climber. but im pretty sure it also wont keep the climber stuck up there if that makes sense. that might be why it didn't seize and still lowered the rock.
Considering how long the pads on car last and how little pressure the pads on the autobelay had to withstand I would imagine it would never be a problem. The webbing and other components probably would wear way faster.
really hate to be the guy, but could you please annotate important measurements such as how heavy those boulders were in non-freedom-units? no need to talk/discuss in metric, I‘m fine with that, but if you could add some small texts in post the first time you name such important metrics, that would really add some QOL for us others ;) thanks!
We would have had to lift the rock up by pulling if it wasn't for the Z2R - we've come so far in our outdoor testing!
20% off Z2Rs until December 18th!
Perfect Descent uses a centrifugal clutch style device, looks like a drum break activated by the spin. Trueblue uses an eddy-current breaking system it looks like.
My trust in gear goes up with every episode, even though we're seeing things break. The insane measures you had to take to damage an old auto belay under worst case conditions with gratuitous overloading just goes to show how amazingly safe these are. Thank you for your gear fear breaking services.
Nice to see Bobby again!
So I can fall in confidence. Thank you.
But even with the 900lb load on the True Blue, yes you would have had a hard landing, but you would have almost certainly survived.
Agree, you might come away with a limp, but given 3x the rating and slack I will take it.
I'm just glad I'm not 900lbs
Really cool to see a video on these. Love all the stuff you guys put out about gear and rope systems. I learn a lot.
9:00 Looking directly into the half-exploded roman candle vibes
I've always wanted to see the inside of an auto belay.
Let's hear it for the Harken snap shackle!
Wichard.
The Trublue one looks like it uses an eddy current brake (magnets induce current in the metal and transfer energy to heat)
Yep that's exactly what it is and it comes with the advantage of no wear on the break pads, since it doesn't have any.
Would be interesting to see how quickly the pads wear on a perfect descent. And it would also be interesting to see if the permanent magnets lose magnetic force over time.
Maybe one day a gym could send in their worn auto belays for further testing.
I'd be curious to see how the gears wear as well.
@@mobbat42 The main reason magnets lose their strength is through heat, but it's pretty high like 80C (176F) for N52 neodymium magnets. The internal metal parts are pretty beefy so I'd be surprised if it got that hot inside, but would be interesting to know how warm it gets during back-to-back-to-back descents.
We've had 2 major injuries at the gym I work in since they opened 10 years ago, both were caused by customers not clipping into the auto belay, it's kinda of wild to me that they didn't even notice while climbing
Even with some pretty massive tarps in front of them it's amazing how people still don't clip in. But in my gym I think bouldering and belayer incompetance still have accounted for more serious injuries in the past 10 years than the autos.
I just got my something-to-one and I love it.
The magnetic version probably experiences less wear over time, just because you're not using sacrificial pads and a clutch. It does use black magic to work, though. Magnets induce eddy currents which induce an opposite magnetic force which causes a ton of drag.
Thanks for showing this and what autobelays look like inside.
Nice to know if I pack on an extra 705lbs and forget how to use an auto belay, I'll still be okay. Wow!
I think you violated the warranty.
I have a number of friends who work at Trublue. They work through magnetic eddy currents like this video describes: ruclips.net/video/NqdOyxJZj0U/видео.htmlsi=jxTShFhWIbAxSCmV. The big advantage of that is that there is no contact between a brake pad and a rotor/drum. That means there are no pads that need replacing and the braking force wont change over time as the pads wear down. My guess on how it failed is that the heat built up faster than it was designed which caused the magnet to explode. Personally though, if I wanted a personal autobelay that I was going to trust to work for years without annual servicing, I'd choose a Trublue. If I owned a Perfect Descent, I'd definitely be sending it in for servicing as those brake pads will wear away.
Commenting to keep Ryan Happy :)
I don’t think they understood how dangerous that spring is. It could literally kill you - that much force on a thin strip of metal can easily cut an artery.
Yes - PD uses a friction-based mechanism and True Blue uses a magnet-based mechanism. I’d trust these (in a reputable gym) over a human belayer 100% of the time.
To add to the conclusion - the complexity of the True Blue meant that it failed in an obvious way - it had failed internally and no longer worked. The simplicity of the PD meant that it had failed (the retention screw was bent, compromising the device), but it still appeared to work. I’d rather have a device that’s more likely to fail safe than to fail dangerous. Of course, this was only one break test on each, so we can’t draw sweeping conclusions.
You were lucky when releasing that spring, to not get hurt. Like your fingers are intact. I was expecting 50 cuts from the spring.
In college, we'd pull armfulls of slack from the auto belay and take huge falls 😂 No wonder my back problems persist.
Brake pads .... means they could wear out. I think magnets are much safer.
That would be cool if one autobelayer could be serviceable or you get so much use, its better to just buy a new one?
when i worked at a climbing gym we had trueblue reps come and explain the equipment. it uses "lenz's law," like this video, ruclips.net/video/KNbtopgzwCQ/видео.html i also think they said something about how it fails too, but i forget. but they did say even if it broke inside it would never just drop the climber. but im pretty sure it also wont keep the climber stuck up there if that makes sense. that might be why it didn't seize and still lowered the rock.
The blue one would probably last longer as the pads in the other one would wear out over time
Considering how long the pads on car last and how little pressure the pads on the autobelay had to withstand I would imagine it would never be a problem. The webbing and other components probably would wear way faster.
Hell yea
really hate to be the guy, but could you please annotate important measurements such as how heavy those boulders were in non-freedom-units? no need to talk/discuss in metric, I‘m fine with that, but if you could add some small texts in post the first time you name such important metrics, that would really add some QOL for us others ;)
thanks!
Dude that guy taking apart that perfect descent could have easily lost a finger. Do not want.
Where is this choss pile?
That spring shooting out looked dangerous. I'm willing to bet the sides of that would cut through your flesh no problem if it hit right. Scary stuff.