Me too. Trap bar deadlifts are much safer, in my experience. Never felt any of that sagittal plane instability. Never heard of it until this video (had to google it). He's dogmatic and old school in his approach; probably still uses a rotary dial phone.
James DeSantis he already said if you're so worried about your back you can squat which has its own advantages over the trap bar. the trap bar is literally a half squat. there's no benefit. also if you want to avoid training your back at all. you'll forever have a weak back
Bro I’m giving up on squats and deadlift I had an injury in both knees at least I can use the leg curl machines and press but you are right the hex is easy
@@mmartinisgreat I KICK ASS ON THOSE TWO non stop And slow :) well synchronized I like those two machines they are fun it really sucks I injury my two knees I was rope skipping single legged with a ten pound vest and that’s how I got injured really bad
@@ixcoatl0013 Good luck with your injuries, if you can tolerate without pain also try backwards pulling a sled or heavy object even at my worst it didn’t give me pain & helped strengthen the legs
Rip is missing the point of why this is added to military fitness tests. A soldier is much more likely to do weighted carries in the field than static lifts. Trap bar deadlift training carries over (pun intended) to operational fitness more than a conventional competition deadlift.
Plus the trap bar deadlift allows for a more upright body posture and even distribution of weight throughout joints during the lift. Also a plus for long-term health fitness and medical readiness of soldiers.
That makes sense, although in that case I would ask why not use the farmer's carry instead as a military test? Surely that is the movement that most directpy simulates what they would be doing in the field?
Dead lift has more potential to make you stronger because the back angle is the same all the time. That specific back angle allows the posterior chain to be trained fully each session. Therefore, it makes you a stronger human being, which in turn makes the same weighted carries easier.
I have the solutions to all the problems created in this video. 1. Don't let someone push your trap bar during the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 2. Don't rock your hips forwards and backwards with your body while peforming the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 3. Don't supinate and pronate your wrists or move your arms while performing the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane. 4. Avoid Mark Rippetoe while doing Trap Bar deadlifts to avoid movement in the sagital plane. This made me think. If a movement has so many ways of being "unsafe" doesn't it indirectly prove that it requires proper technique to perform?
1. the movement is bound to happen with heavier lifts, even experienced lifters dont perform every lift correctly 2. isn't it the basis of the movement pattern though? rocking/moving your hips back and forwards? 3. just an extra precaution but my no.1 proves it wont matter with heavier weights 4. Sure this should work I disagree rippletoe on this being unsafe, but I do agree about the repeatability of the exercise and its very little use in any training format. Does this mean I dont like trap bar? NO, does this mean it does not help you ? no? But the point of any equipment in the gym in my opinion is that you should be able to train with it with high repeatibility. You can get better at lots of stuffs with trap bar deadlift, but I have only found literally two uses for it and it being a plyometric jump with weight, and a farmers walk, any other stuffs with it requires a lot of expertise and lots of "feel dependent" movement to perform it to an equal ability. There's ways you feel like you are doing it like you did last time, but no, due to the equipment allowing me to freely move my hands, hips anywhere I want, at any angle I want and less clue, it can affect the way I execute the deadlift with same repeatibility. Farmers walk , it does not matter where I put my hands and during jumps, I am focusing on jumping with the weight without worrying my back angle and hand positions, So I find it very useful in those But perhaps I have heard people telling me how useful it is for those who have back pains and stuffs,
@@ankitpradhan4183 If your argument was correct for the trap bar deadlift then it would also apply to squats which are also open to motion in the sagittal plane. As with squats, motion in the sagittal plane does not mean that form is unrepeatable - it simply means that form needs to be learned until it becomes repeatable.
@@gsquared2394 bad comparison, your feet are on solid ground when using a trap bar. Literally no science supports the trap bar as being inferior to the barbell conventional deadlift
why are you so mad on behalf of rip when i dont doubt that rip would agree that he is dogmatic, and his reasoning would be something along the lines of "im dogmatic because i've figured out what actually works." he wasnt even insulting him
Zha roon Studies show that sumo deadlifts are closer to a squatting movement than a trap bar... basic anatomy being a safer position for the back, neutral grip to place biceps in a safer position etc. Anatomically if you want to hinge you do good mornings, stiff legged or romanian deadlifts, even damn kettlebell swings. Hurr durr straight bar is the best is dogmatic and stupid.
Why does this guy keep popping up on my feed? Studies have shown the trap bar produces more force, can be used more for greater force. Also may be better for those with lower back problems.
Exactly. You can build power through the legs, and hips as you would during a deadlift without the worry about smoking your back. Plus the hand position and bar path helps you train more lats and traps. So if power and speed from the ground is the goal then this is GREAT. His whole argument is shit form and inconsistencies in movement makes it dangerous 😂
I've been wondering the same thing. Anyone with questions regarding the trap bar should look at the article Greg nuckols has. Actual science and not "it looks different than a conveniental deadlift so it's bad!!!!"
@@tylerweibel8049 "put him against some boxer or athlete same age and weight", um, what strength coach wouldn't that argument apply to lol? yeah ofc boxers will beat up ppl who lift barbells up for a living, what does that prove
This dude is the most dogmatic person I have ever seen. I love the Hex bar at my gym (no high handles, so you are at the same depth, and its a 70lb bar) It is so much more comfortable, and natural feeling. Pull 500 off the ground is pulling 500 off the ground. Do it anyway you want that will keep you healthy, and happy.
It probably feels easier because your shoulder, and hands are in a far more comfortable position. I only pull about 5 percent more with a trap bar than I do a conventional.
@@markus64s By his own definition, strength is how much weight you pull. Trap bar allows you to pull more weight. It's also considered better for power production and athletic performance in general.
@@kurtisbaxter6422 Stronger where? Not your lower back, abs or forearms. I could leg press more than I can squat, but strengthening muscles in isolation is not efficient. A barbell is more consistent with his philosophy.
I’ve never hurt my back with a trap bar… barbell has slipped a disc twice. couldn’t walk for 3 weeks on both injuries. I’ll stick with the trap bar thanks brah
this is good especially if your leverages dont support a neutral spine because the bar has to pass the knees, thats what happens to me and i tweak my back when i get to my knees with a strict conventional form, bulging disk that causes daily pain.
Well, it does sterilize everything. If it was cooked you don't have to worry about e coli and you are not going to develop botulism overnight - or at all since you have salt and acidity in chili.
I actually understand exactly what he's talking about. He makes perfect sense, but only for a certain set of individuals, training for certain goals. I dint recommend a trap bar for new lifters , powerlifters , or other small groups of people who need to be locked into a specific position while training, but for the rest of people, its absolutely fine. I always recommend a rotating routine, switching between bars on a week to week basis. There is no reason not to use both. These bars are tools, use them, and have a greater range of increasing strength and movement. Only when training for a specific goal should be cutting things out and concentrate on a lift like the deadlift. The deadlift is very important, training it is a staple of my training, but how i train it isnt locked in, unless im competing soon. Train however your most comfortable. Its always uo to the individual doing the work, im sorry the trap bar is far from trash, i love it personally. Im getting older, and it makes training a bit easier on my joints and adds more longevity to my training. If i had a show, id train with sololy and Olympic bar, but that would be the only reason, and im done with that for the most part. Lift as you will, brother. If the hex bar adds years to your training and movements , do it.
Completely disagree. You’re still picking up a weight from the floor. Yes it changes the position of the back and the location of your grip, but to call it useless and “so dissimilar” from the deadlift is wrong. We trained novice athletes on this and when they transitioned to a barbell, their conventional deadlift increased.
Iron Adversity wouldn’t novice athletes increase performance rather quickly with proper training due to being a novice? Don’t novice lifters progress initially faster than advanced lifters? May be a factor.
Richard Mann trap bar deadlifts are far less technical and allow newer lifters to pick up weight off the floor without so much gamble on their form killing their lumbars. My point is that the trap bar is not useless.
I saw the RUclips video of Rip answering an older lifter's question about the trap bar. Two weeks later, this video feels like Rip doubling down on silliness. 1. Talking about the sagittal plane and grabbing another person's trap bar at its high point in order to make it swing reminds me of watching a fast talking infomercial huckster do their thing. Nobody grabs another person's bar at its high point. And small movements of a bar at its high point (e.g. the press) requires the body to work on stabilization which doesn't strike me as being a bad thing. But I'd also add, I started using the trap bar 6 months ago and have been lifting over the 405 lbs Rip mentioned in this video, and I have never noticed any swing of the bar in any of my lifts and certainly never felt at risk or any after effects from lifting heavy with a trap bar. 2. I've always assumed that the spotters behind deadlifters at events are because people have passed out after deadlifting to the maximum of their capacity - and having felt briefly light headed after some heavy deadlift pulls, I still think that's the reason. 3. I've never met a person who has injured themselves using a trap bar for heavy lifts. I've met plenty of people who have injured themselves deadlifting with a conventional bar. 4. Greg Nuckols has a really interesting article "Trap Bar Deadlifts are Underrated" comparing the conventional and trap bar deadlifts. He beings with: "I’m a bit ashamed to admit that I used to be a barbell purist. I’m not sure how the idea got lodged in my head, but I spent quite a few years working with the assumption that barbell exercises were always (or almost always) superior to their biomechanically similar, non-barbell counterparts. It took me way too long to realize and accept that trap bar deadlifts are a superior option for most people in most contexts than the straight bar deadlift. Both research and my own self-experimentation helped me see the light." Clearly Rip's not there yet.
"Talking about the sagittal plane and grabbing another person's trap bar at its high point in order to make it swing reminds me of watching a fast talking infomercial huckster do their thing." This is great line - and accurate.
My best deadlift is 630. I tried to deadlift about 350 on a trap bar and had to drop it because it started to swing just a little bit. You probably wouldn't have been able to see that swinging motion, so Rip exaggerated it to make his point.
@@sleepingtube sorry, but that sounds weird. I trap bar for variations and out pull conventional all the time with zero swings. This sounds like bollocks to me...
Gareth, I saw that video too and if RIP replied to my reasonable question the way he did that guy he would have had issues. Utterly rude and disrespectful to a paying customer asking a teacher a fair question. Money back moment.
I used a trap bar with the raised grips, because I have an L4-L5-S1 full fusion, and I can't do squats with heavy weight. I'm incredibly sore in the correct places a day later, so it's clearly hitting the right areas. It seems a lot safer than having the weight way out in front of your legs, putting your lumbar spine in an awkward position.
So it's a physical therapy tool. Not saying it doesn't have it's place, but the whole "awkward position" of your lumbar that you elude to is precisely the point of the deadlift.
@@adammeade2300 if you have perfect form, and you've always had perfect form, it's fine to deadlift. No one can maintain perfect form when lifting for a PR. I used to be an Olympic lifter and powerlifter, so I've seen this first hand hundreds of times, if not more. If you have a spinal injury, or if your family has a history of lumbar spinal injuries, they're not a good idea. For me, they're out of the question, as are heavy squats. I suppose it depends if you're doing them to build strength with good form, or you're doing them for a competition. Competitive weightlifters are typically pretty busted up in their 50s, if not sooner. This kind of reminds me of the CrossFit debate. I'm old enough to remember when it first became a craze. Everyone was begging me to start doing it with them, almost like a cult. I'm sure they have fun, and there's a sense of camaraderie. I imagine they make a lot of friends. But, I don't know a single CrossFit practitioner who hasn't been injured at least once. I was an ex collegiate wrestler. I came out of undergrad with a bunch of overuse injuries already. I didn't need any more.
@@DDDYLN You’ve certainly got more experience with the lift than I do. I’m 42 and have done a lot of training over my lifetime, but I come from a martial arts/boxing background. It’s only recently that I began to squat, bench, ohp, deadlift. I’ve grown to love the deadlift but, to your point, I’m just training to get stronger. PR’s seem like a young man’s game and a great way to injure yourself. I can’t say I have “perfect” form, but my background in martial arts certainly instilled in me the importance of proper and efficient mechanics, so I always warm up well and would rather lift less weight with correct form than go for a record and achieve nothing but accolades. I’m a small guy, like very close to Bruce Lee’s size and build, so I’ve no illusions of becoming some hulking mass of man. Also, I remember well that it was Bruce Lee’s simple neglect of a regular warm up routine on “good mornings” that resulted in his chronic and horrible back pain. I’m also an MRI technician and I scan janky backs everyday, so I do appreciate the potential dangers. Just seems like an earnest focus on sound physiology and the avoidance of ego lifting can make this a profitable and sustainable movement.
@@adammeade2300 100%. I was 23 when I was training for a powerlifting meet. I never even got to compete, because I injured my lumbar spine. I'm 47. Even if I could go back and tell my 23 year old self not to do it, I know he wouldn't listen! I was built like a hulk at that point in my life. I didn't think I could be hurt. I was very wrong. I had been captain and MVP of my collegiate wrestling team. I came out of undergraduate, and went to graduate school, with a lot of unaddressed injuries from wrestling. I tried to ignore them. However, they didn't ignore me. And those overuse injuries, combined with my ego, were what led to injuring my lumbar spine.
It's dogmatic because the trap bar is a viable option for some people, in some situations. For example, to reiterate Alan Thralls point in a recent video of his, the trap bar is a great tool if you want a less taxing deadlift variation using the "high handles" whilst still getting decent work in. Implementing this every month or so, for me at least, has worked wonders for my overall ability to recover.
Yeah.. there is. DOD isn’t going to spend time how to properly deadlift, and the trap bar is more natural for people. We’re talking about training marines and grunts, not oly and powerlifters. Rip’s opinions on military fitness are always redundant.
This persuaded me to buy a trap bar: it felt like I was listening to someone forcefully explaining why, say, guns would never hold a candle to bows and arrows.
Your analogy is defective. The trap bar is like a bee bee gun or air gun. The Olympic bar is like a proper magnum. You don't see professional powerlifters or weight lifters turn up at an official competition to lift a trap bar, do you?
@@spursblood1 buddy like 95% of people who lift are not competing in powerlifting/weightlifting competitions and could not give 2 fucks if their lift gets them 3 white lights or what their raw wilks is or how much they can squat jerk. Most people are lifting for fun and health, not for numbers. Get off your high horse.
I'm getting a trap bar because I want to increase my verticle jump. The motion of lifting with a trap bar is more accurate to actually jumping than the motion of lifting a deadlift. You're inertia is being pulled forward with deadlifting, but with trap bars, it mimics a free-weight jump. I don't see how you think it isn't good for strength training though?
You can just be stronger and increase your vertical jump, i.e squat/deadlift. The implication that you have to do some sort of weighted jump exercise to increase your vertical jump that way is retarded (aka functional training).
@@wreagfe you have to practice explosive training to increase your vertical. You also have to practice explosive training with weights using proper form.
@@datguy4104 If anyone was ever injured from the trap bar, they deserve the injury. AGAIN, the trap bar's selling point IS its stability. Your center of gravity is not pulled like the deadlifts with bars. You are supposed to lift straight up with your feet nice and planted underneath you. How could you fuck this up?! Its not that hard to control.
I know plenty of ppl including myself who pulled something on deadlifts with a bar. How many ppl do I know hurt themselves with a trap bar? Zero. Not saying it never happens. But this is retarded to say the trap bar deadlift is dangerous
Just wait. The Army is implementing the new test now. Although you wouldn't know it since it still hasn't figured out how to issue enough equipment to actually run a test...
I totally disagree. I have a trap bar and an Olympic barbell. I’ve done deadlifts with both on many occasions, and prefer the trap bar. I can do the same amount of weight on either at the trap bar puts the weight in the correct alignment to start with. I think it’s a better way to do deadlifts.
I'm a collegiate strength and conditioning coach with quite a few years of experience, and my default deadlift is the trap bar deadlift, precisely because it keeps the athlete in a more verticle torso position, which is very similar to a basic athletic position, which is almost univerally common to most sports. You see this position across a mutitude of different sports, from a DB in football, to tennis, to baseball, to wrestling. If I were to just write deadlift on my athlete's chart, they would automatically reach for the trap bar. I'd have to specify conventional deadlift in order for them to use a barbell.
The trap bar is great for mimicking a squat (hips low - knees forward) and keeping the barbell weight off my back. You get a great amount of leg volume with the trap bar without any pressure on the back from a barbell being on it.
The overhead press is also unstable at the top of the movement. Farmers walks and shrugs with the trap bar are hugely better than with a barbell. Also, farmers walks are very unstable.
The designer of the original trap bar (Al Gerard) used it to train his back and avoid injury that his deadlifting was creating. So he designed the trap bar and trained with it. A month or so away from a competition, he would train the conventional deadlift, to "groove" the movement back in, then he would deadlift in the competition. This almost completely counters what Mark is saying. Who do you believe? Even if Mark is correct, (and I don't think he is) the trap/shrug bar is useful for other movements where it is clearly superior to the straight bar. Completely useless piece of junk? "I don't think so, Tim."
@@Rothbardy They have their purpose and emphasize different areas than traditional deadlift. I personally like Sumo and hexbar. My quads aren't what I want them to be and those two work them quite well.
Rip is just about in tears over this LOL. The trap bar is an awesome peice of gear, if you have to get an entire army training then of course trap bar will be easier to teach them.
And you don't need your soldiers constantly out due to back injuries or rolled shoulders. Rip can't think three dimensional... he only sees competitive lifting avenues. When you've got to grab to cans or boxes of extremely heavy ammo to one point or another in battle. You are NOT going to pick them up from the front and run with them. There is such a thing as specific type training.
Plus it's much easier to properly execute a trap bar deadlift than a barbell one when someone is exhausted. When would that person be exhausted? Maybe in the middle of a PT test where the soldier has just run 2 miles, done sled drags, pushups, sprints, etc. As mentioned above, he's approaching this from the perspective of a powerlifting coach and not from someone familiar with the needs of the military.
@@whenhen no, he's approaching it from a follow-me-cultishly-and-buy-my-books standpoint. You don't have to read far to find out he has no credibility among actual powerlifters.
It's an excellent bar for a hybrid exercise of a squat and deadlift. It's amazing for supplemental exercise Adding these allowed me to add more volume while easing the load on my lower back I pull over 600
The trap bar gives you a fantastic workout. My deadlift improved drastically after working out with the trap bar. I like old school training but I gladly accept newer technology.
The conventional deadlift and trap bar deadlift are non-specific to military tasks. Why does it matter? They are soldiers, not powerlifters. I think both are perfectly fine for non-specific resistance training. I personally prefer the conventional deadlift, but it does not matter for their purposes.
@Southside Kettlebell Why? In the military you carry things at your side just like with a trap bar. It really doesn't matter which deadlift you use. As Eli said, soldiers are not powerlifters. Unless you're a powerlifter there is not need to pick the conventional deadlift over a trap bar.
We don't deadlift because it's in powerlifting. Deadlift is in powerlifting *because* we do it. If trab bar was the best exercise, powerlifting would've adopted it instead.
My lower back is trashed and the hex bar helps me deadlift and squat without exacerbating the problem. Is it for everyone? Probably not. Does it help me? Definitely yes
The risk of injury doing traditional deadlifts is quite high, especially for taller longer athletes like basketball players and football players. In a perfect world everyone have the proper training and flexibility to learn how to do a deadlift correctly, but often times that isn't realistic. The trap bar deadlift is an excellent alternative, and anyone who has actually worked with athletes knows this.
I would argue the risk of injury for any improper lifting is quite high. Someone deadlifting properly will be just fine and can handle a lot of weight. I agree Mark is a bit negative at times possibly for the sake of his product but he's not wrong here just a bit exaggerated.
"You can tailor your grip..." so long as you're internally rotated at the GHj. "The carrying angle..." happens to be perfect (~30deg ABd) for maximising upper trap activation. And functionally we happen to do most things in the saggital plane.
@@resellworld nonsense. I will take Nuckoll's thoughtful and evidence based reasoning on the matter over RIP's dogma and continue to do BOTH for variation.
I can only imagine how many prospective kids would get hurt doing straight bar deadlifts on a PT test. I'm willing to bet the majority of these kids have never deadlifted and you really don't want to jump straight to maxing (since you're going for a high score) on a somewhat technical lift. So many people new to deadlifting put their feet in the wrong spot, let their hips sink like it's a squat and round their back to accommodate the sunken hips and having to lean forward at the start so they can balance.
Trap bar will build the overall legs when you hinge properly while bending the knees slightly. A regular bar will target the back side far better. Best to incorporate both exercises for overall leg development.
trap bar is just like the iron on your stove top. those iron mallets well they are used by Special Ops for forearm and wrist and hand conditioning DIS CONDITIONING as well.
In a military context the trap bar deadlift is a more realistic movement. When humping ammo a soldier would lift and carry boxes of ammo on the side of his body, not in front. He may have a point in a power lifting context but I doubt he has any experience carrying ammo boxes over adverse terrain for many miles.....
@@joshuatate5671 yes, but BM left precisely because SS refused to adapt to new information. Come on, does RIP strike you as someone with an open mind to new things? Really?
Personally I use both. The trap bar is just another tool. There are days when I can't spend as much time as I want in the gym due to my work schedule. When that happens I can hit trap bar for heavy singles and it takes much less time to get to a high weight. I also use the high grip on the trap bar which allows me to feel more weight in my hands so I get used to it. I prefer this to rack pulls. I love Mark's teaching but he is an absolutist. It's either his way or not al all. Hell he may be right but I like the trap bar. I'm 45 and I've got a 450lb. traditional deadlift and a 500lb. high grip trap bar deadlift.
I never train with the hexbar for ACFT. It's basically a squat move for that event. The Army meant it to simulate soldiers carrying a litter with a grown man with full battle rattle on it.
The goal for so many athletes is beyond simply raw strength. Ie. the benefit to football players in a movement that activates the legs more and a more natural stance is great with the trap bar
But Rip! With sagittal instability I will have to use my stabilizing muscles and get my core stronger, ain't it? How else am I supposed to confuse my muscles?! ( o.o)
I’m gonna show this to my platoon tomorrow, this guys hilarious 😂😂 but in all seriousness he’s absolutely correct. I can pickup way more weight on trap bar then a straight bar. So I use a straight bar to train for the ACFT and maxing the deadlift (which is 340) is no problem. 🤙🏾
Ahhh...I get it! The bench press is useless because it is unrestricted in the sagittal plane! Only Smith Machine bench presses have a stable lockout, and it's been stable all the way up without any freedom to move in the sagittal plane. A traditional bench press completely removes that limitation. During a traditional bench press, the bar can swing anywhere it wants to in the sagittal plane. It can swing on the way up and most importantly it can swing at the top in lockout. Thanks, Mark!!! When are you going to post your "Why the Bench Press is Completely Useless with Mark Rippetoe" video???
Please look up the optimal bar path of a bench press. (Spoiler alert: it's not completely vertical, hence why the Smith machine is suboptimal, as doing the bench press in a stable is one of the points of the lift.)
All the poor lifters competing at America's Strongest Man were so confused by picking up a 900 pound trap bar deadlift, saying, 'Whoa, the "sagittal instability here!"--it's almost like the 900 isn't just hanging straight down as I pick it up and stand upright!' Lolz
I can get into a pretty strong biomechanical position with the trap bar, with a barbell I have to go quite a bit lighter and its very difficult to get into position. I do agree with what he's saying, especially the grip width. I wish the trap bar I have was a little narrower.
On the hinge to squat continuum, the trap bar deadlift is more of a hinge than a sumo deadlift. Which means a sumo deadlift is closer to a squat than a trap bar deadlift. Are you calling a sumo deadlift a squat variation now?
Dumbbell deadlifts are deadlifts and have the absence of a central shaft. They don't limit movement in the sagittal plane. Reproducibility comes from load; your form will be optimal for you - maybe even better than it could be with a straight bar - when you pull your max. Rip asserts that you can pull more weight with a barbell than a trap bar; is that true in your experience? Stance can be as wide or narrow as you like with a trap bar.
Says the man whose elbows are nearly even with his belt. I have a super long back and I enjoy reducing the moment arm with the trap bar. Can still stick my ass up high and load back but I prefer to be medium upright. So much more natural for me as a super tall lifter.
High handle trap bar deadlift it's good for the quads, low handle you can do some RDL... Rows... But deadlift, the proper deadlift need to be on straight bar. Said that, I still think that the Trap Bar it's one the best barbell to have in any gym. And Actually I like to use the high handle doing some RDL and combining with "deadlift", trap bar it's a useful, execelent tool for bodybuilding, not so much for raw powerlifting.
Biggest advantage of the Trap Bar is that you don't need any sort of cage or rack. You can just shove it under you bed when you don't use it and it doesn't take up any permanent space.
This from a guy who stole 'starting strength' method from Bill Starr's strong shall survive and who couldn't run a mile under 10 mins or do 50 push ups or 10 chins. Trap bar DL puts a LOT less shearing forces on the lower lumbar spine and it MUCH better and easier on the spine than traditional deadlifting. The ONLY reason to do traditional deadlifting is if you are a powerlifter competing in this lift OR are looking to see how much you can traditionally deadlift for some reason and it is safe for your structure. From SPINAL/BACK EXPERT Dr John Rusin's website- During the traditional deadlift, the center of mass (barbell) falls in front of your body, therefore causing the axis of rotation of the movement to be farther away from the load itself. This all translates into increased shearing forces at the joints of the lumbar spine, putting all the structures, including intervertebral discs and ligaments at increased risk of injury with faulty mechanics of movement. ADVANTAGES OF THE TRAP BAR DEADLIFT When compared to the straight barbell deadlift, the trap bar deadlift seems like a no brainer as a safe and effective alternative. Some of the most important advantages to the trap bar deadlift are: Decreased Shear Forces on Lumbar Spine Ability to Lift Heavier Loads Stabilize your Shoulders in Neutral Simple to Setup and Learn Proper Mechanics Who would you listen to? An EXPERT IN SPINAL HEALTH or an out of shape high school strength coach?
People argue about range of motion like it's a science, the fucking height of a bar is literally defined by the random universal size of Olympic plates, that varies depending on how tall you are.
To me it seems fantastic replacement for squats.Why? In conventional squatting you have all the weight too high up which makes no difference for legs, but huge difference for you spine, plus, trap bar strenghtens your upper body and arms. Much better for my lower back which immediately stopped hurting after squatting in this way.
Guys please keep in mind this man claims “you cannot increase your vertical jump, it’s genetic”. He’s an old head with lots of knowledge but shit changes get with it or be left behind..
After multiple back fusions and being a tall rangy guy whose low back couldn't handle barbell deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts have allowed me to get "inside" the weight and build my power strength and size. Rip's wrong on this one
In summary: “I don’t like the trap bar cuz it’s not a barbell deadlift”. That’s like saying you hate dumbbells because they’re not a barbell bench press
the wheelbarrow is loaded and anchored on the front wheel. This movement ( I don't think it is an exercise due to it's unrestrictive movement) allows you to ride the swing. That is not something that can be reproduced and thus not effective as I can see. It probably closest resembles a squat - so squat ! unless you want to hop on the swing after each rep. Good breakdown of this movement as it is easy to see it as an easy lift.. ... too easy
Thanks for the video. After watching it I've come to the conclusion that I'm still going to use my trap bar.
Absolutely!
Shhhhhhh rip will hear you and send guys!!!😳
Me too. Trap bar deadlifts are much safer, in my experience. Never felt any of that sagittal plane instability. Never heard of it until this video (had to google it). He's dogmatic and old school in his approach; probably still uses a rotary dial phone.
@@jamesdesantis9420 a special made rotary dial iPhone, for calling Joe Rogan
James DeSantis he already said if you're so worried about your back you can squat which has its own advantages over the trap bar. the trap bar is literally a half squat. there's no benefit. also if you want to avoid training your back at all. you'll forever have a weak back
"these damn pesky kids with there music and trap bars are ruining the neighborhood"
😂🤣
Get off my lawn!!!
Hahaha
😂😂😂
He'll have an aneurysm when he finds out about trap music.
Trap bar is the best way to train for bringing in the groceries in one trip and flexing on neighbour Dads.
Db farmer carries are better for that.
HAHAH
@@anaussie213 idk if I’m strong enough to carry a farmer let alone farmers
I routinely put all my grocery bags on my trap bar to carry it all in one trip.
Functional!
The grumpiest man in fitness.
dogmatic
Hes in another video complaining about racking weight plates. The comments are hysterical!!!!!!
The Hoodlum link it 🤣🤣 would love to see
Who’s not even fit lol
It's all that protein powder, backs him up, the guy hasn't dropped the kids off in weeks.
The most dangerous thing about a trap bar is having a fat guy appear from nowhere and start pushing it around at the top of your lift
😂
Damn 😂
🤣🤣🤣
He's not appearing out of no where though.
@@dababy824 get a load of mister literal, here ☝️
Have had both knees replaced and the trap bar has been a tremendous assist to be able to continue weight training vs a barbell deadlift
How dare you
Bro I’m giving up on squats and deadlift I had an injury in both knees at least I can use the leg curl machines and press but you are right the hex is easy
@@ixcoatl0013 what about hip thrusts and glute adducteurs and abductors?
@@mmartinisgreat I KICK ASS ON THOSE TWO non stop And slow :) well synchronized I like those two machines they are fun it really sucks I injury my two knees I was rope skipping single legged with a ten pound vest and that’s how I got injured really bad
@@ixcoatl0013 Good luck with your injuries, if you can tolerate without pain also try backwards pulling a sled or heavy object even at my worst it didn’t give me pain & helped strengthen the legs
Rip is missing the point of why this is added to military fitness tests. A soldier is much more likely to do weighted carries in the field than static lifts. Trap bar deadlift training carries over (pun intended) to operational fitness more than a conventional competition deadlift.
Plus the trap bar deadlift allows for a more upright body posture and even distribution of weight throughout joints during the lift. Also a plus for long-term health fitness and medical readiness of soldiers.
That makes sense, although in that case I would ask why not use the farmer's carry instead as a military test? Surely that is the movement that most directpy simulates what they would be doing in the field?
@@michaelthimes Okay, that makes sense for extraction. It is a similar movement.
Dead lift has more potential to make you stronger because the back angle is the same all the time. That specific back angle allows the posterior chain to be trained fully each session. Therefore, it makes you a stronger human being, which in turn makes the same weighted carries easier.
@@Account2129 isn't the discussion about testing in the military though, not necessarily training.
After watching this, I've decided to order a trap bar
me too, srsly. I want one now
They're amazing. I love training with my trap bar.
So much easier on my lower back
I use mine for frame carry, hits my traps (get it?) better then anything.
Mine is on the way lol
I have the solutions to all the problems created in this video.
1. Don't let someone push your trap bar during the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane.
2. Don't rock your hips forwards and backwards with your body while peforming the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane.
3. Don't supinate and pronate your wrists or move your arms while performing the lift to avoid movement in the sagital plane.
4. Avoid Mark Rippetoe while doing Trap Bar deadlifts to avoid movement in the sagital plane.
This made me think. If a movement has so many ways of being "unsafe" doesn't it indirectly prove that it requires proper technique to perform?
1. the movement is bound to happen with heavier lifts, even experienced lifters dont perform every lift correctly
2. isn't it the basis of the movement pattern though? rocking/moving your hips back and forwards?
3. just an extra precaution but my no.1 proves it wont matter with heavier weights
4. Sure this should work
I disagree rippletoe on this being unsafe, but I do agree about the repeatability of the exercise and its very little use in any training format. Does this mean I dont like trap bar? NO, does this mean it does not help you ? no?
But the point of any equipment in the gym in my opinion is that you should be able to train with it with high repeatibility.
You can get better at lots of stuffs with trap bar deadlift, but I have only found literally two uses for it and it being a plyometric jump with weight, and a farmers walk, any other stuffs with it requires a lot of expertise and lots of "feel dependent" movement to perform it to an equal ability. There's ways you feel like you are doing it like you did last time, but no, due to the equipment allowing me to freely move my hands, hips anywhere I want, at any angle I want and less clue, it can affect the way I execute the deadlift with same repeatibility.
Farmers walk , it does not matter where I put my hands and during jumps, I am focusing on jumping with the weight without worrying my back angle and hand positions, So I find it very useful in those
But perhaps I have heard people telling me how useful it is for those who have back pains and stuffs,
@@ankitpradhan4183 If your argument was correct for the trap bar deadlift then it would also apply to squats which are also open to motion in the sagittal plane.
As with squats, motion in the sagittal plane does not mean that form is unrepeatable - it simply means that form needs to be learned until it becomes repeatable.
@@ozzy6162 yes but bar is attached to your body, its not floating around to put more stress
You can’t lift heavier weights in an unstable environment. Try lifting on a boat, your body wont let you fire all of your muscle units.
@@gsquared2394 bad comparison, your feet are on solid ground when using a trap bar. Literally no science supports the trap bar as being inferior to the barbell conventional deadlift
that gym is stacked with curl racks, love it!
Hilarious comment
Ha
Nice
I always feel like I'm in trouble when I watch Rip's videos.
It's like when your dad picks you up from school and he's mad at you
That's what happens when you live life like a coward
🤣😂
@@garbanzosteve6012 lmao
@@absolutelyfookinnobody2843 no you are what happens when no one teaches you how to have some fun and be a little lighthearted
When you look up "dogmatic" in the dictionary there is just a picture of a Mark Rippetoe
exact word i used
I thought it was when you train your dog so well that when you whistle they come to you immediately.
why are you so mad on behalf of rip when i dont doubt that rip would agree that he is dogmatic, and his reasoning would be something along the lines of "im dogmatic because i've figured out what actually works." he wasnt even insulting him
@@TheMonk111 if I had to guess I'd say gasbaroni is projecting his relationship issues with his dad onto rip and as a result got a little defensive.
@@gasbaroni Bruh, you're making that shit up. I checked, and it's some funny looking dude named gasbaroni.
This reminds me of “who needs a computer at home?”
no science just plain ole " get off my lawn" talk
Zha roon Basic anatomy supports the trap bar...
Zha roon do you dumbass?
Zha roon Studies show that sumo deadlifts are closer to a squatting movement than a trap bar...
basic anatomy being a safer position for the back, neutral grip to place biceps in a safer position etc.
Anatomically if you want to hinge you do good mornings, stiff legged or romanian deadlifts, even damn kettlebell swings.
Hurr durr straight bar is the best is dogmatic and stupid.
Zha roon Yes, it allows you, but that doesn’t mean you have to
@@BenBenjaBenjamin And a conventional deadlift is a half squat with the bar hanging in the hands instead of being on your back.
Why does this guy keep popping up on my feed? Studies have shown the trap bar produces more force, can be used more for greater force. Also may be better for those with lower back problems.
Exactly. You can build power through the legs, and hips as you would during a deadlift without the worry about smoking your back. Plus the hand position and bar path helps you train more lats and traps. So if power and speed from the ground is the goal then this is GREAT. His whole argument is shit form and inconsistencies in movement makes it dangerous 😂
I've been wondering the same thing. Anyone with questions regarding the trap bar should look at the article Greg nuckols has. Actual science and not "it looks different than a conveniental deadlift so it's bad!!!!"
@@tylerweibel8049 "put him against some boxer or athlete same age and weight", um, what strength coach wouldn't that argument apply to lol? yeah ofc boxers will beat up ppl who lift barbells up for a living, what does that prove
Daniel Prendergast check your @ bro
Bimarsha Guragain you’re not doing a good job of proving anything here.
This dude is the most dogmatic person I have ever seen. I love the Hex bar at my gym (no high handles, so you are at the same depth, and its a 70lb bar) It is so much more comfortable, and natural feeling. Pull 500 off the ground is pulling 500 off the ground. Do it anyway you want that will keep you healthy, and happy.
Pulling 500 is easier with a trap bar than a barbell tho
Day Man. No , but why you believe this?
Jordbær idk man maybe I just suck at deadlifting. I can pull 500 with a trap bar but not with a barbell.
Day Man
Ok, then put 550 on there
It probably feels easier because your shoulder, and hands are in a far more comfortable position. I only pull about 5 percent more with a trap bar than I do a conventional.
This guy is the definition of I want it my way or no way at all. Trap bar has it's pros and cons but so does the barbell deadlift.
He is white New balance shoes or no shoes at all.
One is better for getting stronger, so yeah, he prefers that one.
@@jonmichaelburgess2654 HAHAHA gold
@@markus64s By his own definition, strength is how much weight you pull. Trap bar allows you to pull more weight. It's also considered better for power production and athletic performance in general.
@@kurtisbaxter6422 Stronger where? Not your lower back, abs or forearms. I could leg press more than I can squat, but strengthening muscles in isolation is not efficient. A barbell is more consistent with his philosophy.
"Why Rippetoe Is Completely Useless With The Trap Bar". Alternate, more appropriate title
I’ve never hurt my back with a trap bar… barbell has slipped a disc twice. couldn’t walk for 3 weeks on both injuries. I’ll stick with the trap bar thanks brah
this is good especially if your leverages dont support a neutral spine because the bar has to pass the knees, thats what happens to me and i tweak my back when i get to my knees with a strict conventional form, bulging disk that causes daily pain.
I quit believing everything Rip had to say when he gave a chili recipe and said it’s ok to leave out overnight because the heat sterilizes it.
Oddly specific
Lol. Good thing I dont come here for cooking advice I guess.
Bahahaha!
Well, it does sterilize everything. If it was cooked you don't have to worry about e coli and you are not going to develop botulism overnight - or at all since you have salt and acidity in chili.
Isn't Rip the guy who proposed "GOMAD"?
I actually understand exactly what he's talking about. He makes perfect sense, but only for a certain set of individuals, training for certain goals. I dint recommend a trap bar for new lifters , powerlifters , or other small groups of people who need to be locked into a specific position while training, but for the rest of people, its absolutely fine.
I always recommend a rotating routine, switching between bars on a week to week basis. There is no reason not to use both. These bars are tools, use them, and have a greater range of increasing strength and movement. Only when training for a specific goal should be cutting things out and concentrate on a lift like the deadlift. The deadlift is very important, training it is a staple of my training, but how i train it isnt locked in, unless im competing soon.
Train however your most comfortable. Its always uo to the individual doing the work, im sorry the trap bar is far from trash, i love it personally. Im getting older, and it makes training a bit easier on my joints and adds more longevity to my training. If i had a show, id train with sololy and Olympic bar, but that would be the only reason, and im done with that for the most part.
Lift as you will, brother. If the hex bar adds years to your training and movements , do it.
Completely disagree. You’re still picking up a weight from the floor. Yes it changes the position of the back and the location of your grip, but to call it useless and “so dissimilar” from the deadlift is wrong. We trained novice athletes on this and when they transitioned to a barbell, their conventional deadlift increased.
Iron Adversity wouldn’t novice athletes increase performance rather quickly with proper training due to being a novice? Don’t novice lifters progress initially faster than advanced lifters? May be a factor.
Richard Mann trap bar deadlifts are far less technical and allow newer lifters to pick up weight off the floor without so much gamble on their form killing their lumbars. My point is that the trap bar is not useless.
Its called the novice effect. Trap bar does not recruit the posterior chain like an actual deadlift.
choose an exercise that is less technically demanding and has a lower risk of injury when teaching a incredibly large number of athletes (soldiers).
All these starting strength moustaches are beginning to make me think Rip has some sort of Cult in Texas.
A mustache cult.
@Pentex dont be silly wrap ur willy
Pentex can confirm. Having a mustache instills a sense of pride and camaraderie and is great for a culture. I exclusively join mustache cults now
He's just angry because that shack outside La Grange closed down in '73
Now I hate Tom Selleck.
I saw the RUclips video of Rip answering an older lifter's question about the trap bar. Two weeks later, this video feels like Rip doubling down on silliness.
1. Talking about the sagittal plane and grabbing another person's trap bar at its high point in order to make it swing reminds me of watching a fast talking infomercial huckster do their thing. Nobody grabs another person's bar at its high point. And small movements of a bar at its high point (e.g. the press) requires the body to work on stabilization which doesn't strike me as being a bad thing. But I'd also add, I started using the trap bar 6 months ago and have been lifting over the 405 lbs Rip mentioned in this video, and I have never noticed any swing of the bar in any of my lifts and certainly never felt at risk or any after effects from lifting heavy with a trap bar.
2. I've always assumed that the spotters behind deadlifters at events are because people have passed out after deadlifting to the maximum of their capacity - and having felt briefly light headed after some heavy deadlift pulls, I still think that's the reason.
3. I've never met a person who has injured themselves using a trap bar for heavy lifts. I've met plenty of people who have injured themselves deadlifting with a conventional bar.
4. Greg Nuckols has a really interesting article "Trap Bar Deadlifts are Underrated" comparing the conventional and trap bar deadlifts. He beings with: "I’m a bit ashamed to admit that I used to be a barbell purist. I’m not sure how the idea got lodged in my head, but I spent quite a few years working with the assumption that barbell exercises were always (or almost always) superior to their biomechanically similar, non-barbell counterparts. It took me way too long to realize and accept that trap bar deadlifts are a superior option for most people in most contexts than the straight bar deadlift. Both research and my own self-experimentation helped me see the light." Clearly Rip's not there yet.
"Talking about the sagittal plane and grabbing another person's trap bar at its high point in order to make it swing reminds me of watching a fast talking infomercial huckster do their thing." This is great line - and accurate.
My best deadlift is 630. I tried to deadlift about 350 on a trap bar and had to drop it because it started to swing just a little bit. You probably wouldn't have been able to see that swinging motion, so Rip exaggerated it to make his point.
@@sleepingtube how the hell is that even possible? I can trap bar dead lift 375, and barbell 385. And I do more barbell than trap bar
@@sleepingtube sorry, but that sounds weird. I trap bar for variations and out pull conventional all the time with zero swings. This sounds like bollocks to me...
Gareth, I saw that video too and if RIP replied to my reasonable question the way he did that guy he would have had issues. Utterly rude and disrespectful to a paying customer asking a teacher a fair question. Money back moment.
I used a trap bar with the raised grips, because I have an L4-L5-S1 full fusion, and I can't do squats with heavy weight. I'm incredibly sore in the correct places a day later, so it's clearly hitting the right areas. It seems a lot safer than having the weight way out in front of your legs, putting your lumbar spine in an awkward position.
So it's a physical therapy tool. Not saying it doesn't have it's place, but the whole "awkward position" of your lumbar that you elude to is precisely the point of the deadlift.
@@adammeade2300 if you have perfect form, and you've always had perfect form, it's fine to deadlift. No one can maintain perfect form when lifting for a PR. I used to be an Olympic lifter and powerlifter, so I've seen this first hand hundreds of times, if not more. If you have a spinal injury, or if your family has a history of lumbar spinal injuries, they're not a good idea. For me, they're out of the question, as are heavy squats. I suppose it depends if you're doing them to build strength with good form, or you're doing them for a competition. Competitive weightlifters are typically pretty busted up in their 50s, if not sooner. This kind of reminds me of the CrossFit debate. I'm old enough to remember when it first became a craze. Everyone was begging me to start doing it with them, almost like a cult. I'm sure they have fun, and there's a sense of camaraderie. I imagine they make a lot of friends. But, I don't know a single CrossFit practitioner who hasn't been injured at least once. I was an ex collegiate wrestler. I came out of undergrad with a bunch of overuse injuries already. I didn't need any more.
@@DDDYLN You’ve certainly got more experience with the lift than I do. I’m 42 and have done a lot of training over my lifetime, but I come from a martial arts/boxing background. It’s only recently that I began to squat, bench, ohp, deadlift. I’ve grown to love the deadlift but, to your point, I’m just training to get stronger. PR’s seem like a young man’s game and a great way to injure yourself. I can’t say I have “perfect” form, but my background in martial arts certainly instilled in me the importance of proper and efficient mechanics, so I always warm up well and would rather lift less weight with correct form than go for a record and achieve nothing but accolades. I’m a small guy, like very close to Bruce Lee’s size and build, so I’ve no illusions of becoming some hulking mass of man. Also, I remember well that it was Bruce Lee’s simple neglect of a regular warm up routine on “good mornings” that resulted in his chronic and horrible back pain. I’m also an MRI technician and I scan janky backs everyday, so I do appreciate the potential dangers. Just seems like an earnest focus on sound physiology and the avoidance of ego lifting can make this a profitable and sustainable movement.
@@adammeade2300 100%. I was 23 when I was training for a powerlifting meet. I never even got to compete, because I injured my lumbar spine. I'm 47. Even if I could go back and tell my 23 year old self not to do it, I know he wouldn't listen! I was built like a hulk at that point in my life. I didn't think I could be hurt. I was very wrong. I had been captain and MVP of my collegiate wrestling team. I came out of undergraduate, and went to graduate school, with a lot of unaddressed injuries from wrestling. I tried to ignore them. However, they didn't ignore me. And those overuse injuries, combined with my ego, were what led to injuring my lumbar spine.
Bro, it fucking sucks get over it pussy
This is the definition of dogmatic
sorry the truth is too dogmatic
@@dors.sc1 It's not truth it's an opinion.
It's dogmatic because the trap bar is a viable option for some people, in some situations. For example, to reiterate Alan Thralls point in a recent video of his, the trap bar is a great tool if you want a less taxing deadlift variation using the "high handles" whilst still getting decent work in. Implementing this every month or so, for me at least, has worked wonders for my overall ability to recover.
@@hugomcdermott2118 just deadlift with less load, is there any argument for the trap bar
Yeah.. there is. DOD isn’t going to spend time how to properly deadlift, and the trap bar is more natural for people. We’re talking about training marines and grunts, not oly and powerlifters. Rip’s opinions on military fitness are always redundant.
This persuaded me to buy a trap bar: it felt like I was listening to someone forcefully explaining why, say, guns would never hold a candle to bows and arrows.
How do you like it? I'm sure you've noticed that nobody tries to push you over at lock out and you can flip it over if you want less RoM 😳😳
Lmao not quite.
Idiot.
Your analogy is defective. The trap bar is like a bee bee gun or air gun. The Olympic bar is like a proper magnum. You don't see professional powerlifters or weight lifters turn up at an official competition to lift a trap bar, do you?
@@spursblood1 buddy like 95% of people who lift are not competing in powerlifting/weightlifting competitions and could not give 2 fucks if their lift gets them 3 white lights or what their raw wilks is or how much they can squat jerk. Most people are lifting for fun and health, not for numbers. Get off your high horse.
I'm getting a trap bar because I want to increase my verticle jump. The motion of lifting with a trap bar is more accurate to actually jumping than the motion of lifting a deadlift. You're inertia is being pulled forward with deadlifting, but with trap bars, it mimics a free-weight jump. I don't see how you think it isn't good for strength training though?
You can just be stronger and increase your vertical jump, i.e squat/deadlift. The implication that you have to do some sort of weighted jump exercise to increase your vertical jump that way is retarded (aka functional training).
@@wreagfe you have to practice explosive training to increase your vertical. You also have to practice explosive training with weights using proper form.
Is mark having an episode of early onset irrelevance?
Rip has nice theoretical arguments as always, but I don't think any of this has been observed in practice.
Literally no one has ever been injured by the trap bar going back and forth. I don't think he's ever actually used one.
What nice theoretical arguments? I didn't here any.
@@datguy4104 If anyone was ever injured from the trap bar, they deserve the injury. AGAIN, the trap bar's selling point IS its stability. Your center of gravity is not pulled like the deadlifts with bars. You are supposed to lift straight up with your feet nice and planted underneath you. How could you fuck this up?! Its not that hard to control.
Huffman_Tree He literally wrote the book. I think he would know.
Lee Everett I’ve been hurt by a trap bar, and I deserved it. Lol I can attest to this
One question: if the trap bar is so dangerous, where are all the bodies?
I know plenty of ppl including myself who pulled something on deadlifts with a bar. How many ppl do I know hurt themselves with a trap bar? Zero. Not saying it never happens. But this is retarded to say the trap bar deadlift is dangerous
Yep, as far as i have heard there are absolutely no statistics to back Rip's claim up, more likely even the opposite.
@@mattzilla331 it tears your biceps easier
Just wait. The Army is implementing the new test now. Although you wouldn't know it since it still hasn't figured out how to issue enough equipment to actually run a test...
Up your butt, Mike.
I totally disagree. I have a trap bar and an Olympic barbell. I’ve done deadlifts with both on many occasions, and prefer the trap bar. I can do the same amount of weight on either at the trap bar puts the weight in the correct alignment to start with. I think it’s a better way to do deadlifts.
I'm a collegiate strength and conditioning coach with quite a few years of experience, and my default deadlift is the trap bar deadlift, precisely because it keeps the athlete in a more verticle torso position, which is very similar to a basic athletic position, which is almost univerally common to most sports. You see this position across a mutitude of different sports, from a DB in football, to tennis, to baseball, to wrestling.
If I were to just write deadlift on my athlete's chart, they would automatically reach for the trap bar. I'd have to specify conventional deadlift in order for them to use a barbell.
I have a 600lb raw deadlift that I trained almost entirely with the trap bar. Never had a single injury. How is it useless?
Is that with using the lower handles?
You mean 600lbs with a straight bar doing only trapbar deadlift leading up to it? If yes you should document it, that sounds interesting.
Prove it
Complete and utter bullshit. A trap bar deadlift is not a "raw deadlift."
It's not useless at all especially if you're not competing.
"And you know what else grinds my gears!?!??" Is all I heard during this video.
What if you have massive issues with your hip mobility and this is the only way to get serious weight on your legs?
Work on your hip mobility
@Southside Kettlebell cheers
Yeah work on your hip mobility. In time you'll be able to deadlift.
The trap bar is great for mimicking a squat (hips low - knees forward) and keeping the barbell weight off my back. You get a great amount of leg volume with the trap bar without any pressure on the back from a barbell being on it.
Why mimick as squat when you can squat?
The overhead press is also unstable at the top of the movement.
Farmers walks and shrugs with the trap bar are hugely better than with a barbell. Also, farmers walks are very unstable.
Yea but you’re stabling 135lbs of weight above your body. Tell me one exercise that strengthens your serratus anterior like OHP.
The designer of the original trap bar (Al Gerard) used it to train his back and avoid injury that his deadlifting was creating. So he designed the trap bar and trained with it. A month or so away from a competition, he would train the conventional deadlift, to "groove" the movement back in, then he would deadlift in the competition. This almost completely counters what Mark is saying. Who do you believe? Even if Mark is correct, (and I don't think he is) the trap/shrug bar is useful for other movements where it is clearly superior to the straight bar. Completely useless piece of junk? "I don't think so, Tim."
I’d like to hear what Mark thinks of Sumo deadlifts, lol.
Soon2Be91 their a trick to reduce the length of pull and should’ve been banned the instant it was seen in a professional meet
@@Rothbardy They have their purpose and emphasize different areas than traditional deadlift. I personally like Sumo and hexbar. My quads aren't what I want them to be and those two work them quite well.
Oh and I'm pretty sure he does not like Sumo either.
Also known as *Cheating Deadlifts*
SS is not powerlifting, why would they ever do sumo if the whole point is to stress your back?
Rip is just about in tears over this LOL. The trap bar is an awesome peice of gear, if you have to get an entire army training then of course trap bar will be easier to teach them.
And you don't need your soldiers constantly out due to back injuries or rolled shoulders. Rip can't think three dimensional... he only sees competitive lifting avenues. When you've got to grab to cans or boxes of extremely heavy ammo to one point or another in battle. You are NOT going to pick them up from the front and run with them. There is such a thing as specific type training.
It's a phenomenal piece of equipment.
Plus it's much easier to properly execute a trap bar deadlift than a barbell one when someone is exhausted. When would that person be exhausted? Maybe in the middle of a PT test where the soldier has just run 2 miles, done sled drags, pushups, sprints, etc.
As mentioned above, he's approaching this from the perspective of a powerlifting coach and not from someone familiar with the needs of the military.
@@whenhen no, he's approaching it from a follow-me-cultishly-and-buy-my-books standpoint. You don't have to read far to find out he has no credibility among actual powerlifters.
The trap bar is like stress free deadlifting. Rip is being overly dramatic .
It's an excellent bar for a hybrid exercise of a squat and deadlift. It's amazing for supplemental exercise
Adding these allowed me to add more volume while easing the load on my lower back
I pull over 600
You could say the same thing about the OHP and Beach Press and Rows and ....
The trap bar gives you a fantastic workout. My deadlift improved drastically after working out with the trap bar. I like old school training but I gladly accept newer technology.
The conventional deadlift and trap bar deadlift are non-specific to military tasks. Why does it matter? They are soldiers, not powerlifters. I think both are perfectly fine for non-specific resistance training. I personally prefer the conventional deadlift, but it does not matter for their purposes.
The conventional deadlift is only specific to powerlifters yes but it is still the best and most efficent way to get anyone strong period.
You make a good point, nothing matters if nothing matters.
@Southside Kettlebell Why? In the military you carry things at your side just like with a trap bar. It really doesn't matter which deadlift you use. As Eli said, soldiers are not powerlifters. Unless you're a powerlifter there is not need to pick the conventional deadlift over a trap bar.
charlie don't deadlift or surf
We don't deadlift because it's in powerlifting.
Deadlift is in powerlifting *because* we do it.
If trab bar was the best exercise, powerlifting would've adopted it instead.
My lower back is trashed and the hex bar helps me deadlift and squat without exacerbating the problem.
Is it for everyone? Probably not.
Does it help me? Definitely yes
The risk of injury doing traditional deadlifts is quite high, especially for taller longer athletes like basketball players and football players. In a perfect world everyone have the proper training and flexibility to learn how to do a deadlift correctly, but often times that isn't realistic. The trap bar deadlift is an excellent alternative, and anyone who has actually worked with athletes knows this.
I would argue the risk of injury for any improper lifting is quite high. Someone deadlifting properly will be just fine and can handle a lot of weight. I agree Mark is a bit negative at times possibly for the sake of his product but he's not wrong here just a bit exaggerated.
But it doesnt work the posterior chain, which is the entire point of the deadlift.
@@dankdark974 it actually does and thats why this video is so silly
@@dankdark974 By this logic the squat doesn't work the posterior chain.
"You can tailor your grip..." so long as you're internally rotated at the GHj. "The carrying angle..." happens to be perfect (~30deg ABd) for maximising upper trap activation. And functionally we happen to do most things in the saggital plane.
Trap bar deadlifts are still deadlifts, the weight starts dead on the floor
It's still a pointless lift with not enough benefits. Which means it's DEAD to me. So yeah I guess you could say it's a "DEAD-lift"
@@resellworld nonsense. I will take Nuckoll's thoughtful and evidence based reasoning on the matter over RIP's dogma and continue to do BOTH for variation.
@@fabioq6916 WHOOOOOSH!!
You must be fun at parties...
It was a joke dumbass.
@@resellworld yep.
@@fabioq6916 word.
I had to check the posting date just to be sure it wasn't on April 1st.
As one fitness professional to another, people are much more likely to curl their back with a straight bar deadlift. I like the trap bar.
I feel like trap bar deadlifts also help me generate more power in my legs which benefits me as a rugby player
I can only imagine how many prospective kids would get hurt doing straight bar deadlifts on a PT test. I'm willing to bet the majority of these kids have never deadlifted and you really don't want to jump straight to maxing (since you're going for a high score) on a somewhat technical lift. So many people new to deadlifting put their feet in the wrong spot, let their hips sink like it's a squat and round their back to accommodate the sunken hips and having to lean forward at the start so they can balance.
Trap bar will build the overall legs when you hinge properly while bending the knees slightly. A regular bar will target the back side far better. Best to incorporate both exercises for overall leg development.
trap bar is just like the iron on your stove top. those iron mallets well they are used by Special Ops for forearm and wrist and hand conditioning DIS CONDITIONING as well.
What if your using it for its intended purpose and not deadlifting with the trap bar?
Rip is correct about a lot of things, but he couldn’t be more wrong about the Trap Bar Deadlift.
In a military context the trap bar deadlift is a more realistic movement. When humping ammo a soldier would lift and carry boxes of ammo on the side of his body, not in front. He may have a point in a power lifting context but I doubt he has any experience carrying ammo boxes over adverse terrain for many miles.....
Litter carries, too.
I love my trap bar and so does my back that is recovering well from previous squatting and deadlifting exercises 😃.
Alan Thrall doesn’t see anything wrong with them
Bar Bell medicine waits for any position starting strength takes them stands on the opposite side...🤨
@@Buzz_Kill71 opposite way around
@@Delta3angle Ss came first😉
@@joshuatate5671 yes, but BM left precisely because SS refused to adapt to new information. Come on, does RIP strike you as someone with an open mind to new things? Really?
Frank Carter I mean they’re jacked and strong compared to Rip, so...
Isn't the squat and bench Unrestricted in the sagittal plane? Pull up, ohp, bb row, etc.
ok at this point im out. no more starting strength for me. it gets ridiculous
Stay weak
Personally I use both. The trap bar is just another tool. There are days when I can't spend as much time as I want in the gym due to my work schedule. When that happens I can hit trap bar for heavy singles and it takes much less time to get to a high weight. I also use the high grip on the trap bar which allows me to feel more weight in my hands so I get used to it. I prefer this to rack pulls. I love Mark's teaching but he is an absolutist. It's either his way or not al all. Hell he may be right but I like the trap bar. I'm 45 and I've got a 450lb. traditional deadlift and a 500lb. high grip trap bar deadlift.
I never train with the hexbar for ACFT. It's basically a squat move for that event. The Army meant it to simulate soldiers carrying a litter with a grown man with full battle rattle on it.
09:33 "everybody's got to eat"
Marks becoming a socialist day by day.
The goal for so many athletes is beyond simply raw strength. Ie. the benefit to football players in a movement that activates the legs more and a more natural stance is great with the trap bar
But Rip! With sagittal instability I will have to use my stabilizing muscles and get my core stronger, ain't it? How else am I supposed to confuse my muscles?! ( o.o)
Brian Shaw found a way to use the trap bar for a shoulder exercise. He put the trap bar in a squat rack and put weights on it. Looked pretty effective
Other than farmers walks. It's the only thing I use it for
I’m gonna show this to my platoon tomorrow, this guys hilarious 😂😂 but in all seriousness he’s absolutely correct. I can pickup way more weight on trap bar then a straight bar. So I use a straight bar to train for the ACFT and maxing the deadlift (which is 340) is no problem. 🤙🏾
That’s the case for everyone , you have more room to place your feet how you want and the weight is at your side
@@fares.b1301 my form is the same for both lifts. Literally nothing changes. Hex bar is just easier 🤷🏾♂️
Ahhh...I get it! The bench press is useless because it is unrestricted in the sagittal plane! Only Smith Machine bench presses have a stable lockout, and it's been stable all the way up without any freedom to move in the sagittal plane. A traditional bench press completely removes that limitation. During a traditional bench press, the bar can swing anywhere it wants to in the sagittal plane. It can swing on the way up and most importantly it can swing at the top in lockout. Thanks, Mark!!! When are you going to post your "Why the Bench Press is Completely Useless with Mark Rippetoe" video???
Please look up the optimal bar path of a bench press. (Spoiler alert: it's not completely vertical, hence why the Smith machine is suboptimal, as doing the bench press in a stable is one of the points of the lift.)
@@wreagfe Ahhh...you get my point...according to Mark Rippetoe, all that instability in the sagittal plane makes the bench press "completely useless."
All the poor lifters competing at America's Strongest Man were so confused by picking up a 900 pound trap bar deadlift, saying, 'Whoa, the "sagittal instability here!"--it's almost like the 900 isn't just hanging straight down as I pick it up and stand upright!' Lolz
Using exceptions to... what are you actually trying to prove with that comment?
I can get into a pretty strong biomechanical position with the trap bar, with a barbell I have to go quite a bit lighter and its very difficult to get into position. I do agree with what he's saying, especially the grip width. I wish the trap bar I have was a little narrower.
I enjoy being lectured to by obese, fluorescent, crustaceans. I think I'll subscribe to the starting strength channel.
Best described as a ‘squat lift’. It feels like a squat but with the weight in your hands. Doesn’t feel like a conventional deadlift
On the hinge to squat continuum, the trap bar deadlift is more of a hinge than a sumo deadlift. Which means a sumo deadlift is closer to a squat than a trap bar deadlift. Are you calling a sumo deadlift a squat variation now?
@@charlieparkeriswhat even funnier is that the trap bar deadlift was more of a hinge than the low bar squat was a pure squat
The ron swanson of strength.
Dumbbell deadlifts are deadlifts and have the absence of a central shaft. They don't limit movement in the sagittal plane. Reproducibility comes from load; your form will be optimal for you - maybe even better than it could be with a straight bar - when you pull your max. Rip asserts that you can pull more weight with a barbell than a trap bar; is that true in your experience? Stance can be as wide or narrow as you like with a trap bar.
I can see this guy in some little town being the BS legend in fitness. 😆
Says the man whose elbows are nearly even with his belt. I have a super long back and I enjoy reducing the moment arm with the trap bar. Can still stick my ass up high and load back but I prefer to be medium upright. So much more natural for me as a super tall lifter.
The best thing is this guy is still living in the 1970’s
As you say it's for "testing" rather than training strength. The military are building soldiers not athletes.
High handle trap bar deadlift it's good for the quads, low handle you can do some RDL... Rows... But deadlift, the proper deadlift need to be on straight bar. Said that, I still think that the Trap Bar it's one the best barbell to have in any gym. And Actually I like to use the high handle doing some RDL and combining with "deadlift", trap bar it's a useful, execelent tool for bodybuilding, not so much for raw powerlifting.
Biggest advantage of the Trap Bar is that you don't need any sort of cage or rack. You can just shove it under you bed when you don't use it and it doesn't take up any permanent space.
Rip needs a Dylan Mulvaney special edition trap bar, paid for by a federal subsidy for inclusion
Extremely optional piece of equipment he says. Fair enough, I choose hex bar anyway. Because I enjoy it more. That's all the reason I need.
W R O N G...... Hex takes massive load off the lower back for doing bentover rows, deadlifts etc
I like using the trap bar for farmer's walks.
Al Gerard is turning over in his grave 😂
You need to control the weight, whatever you’re lifting, otherwise bad shit happens. Isn’t that lifting anything?
This from a guy who stole 'starting strength' method from Bill Starr's strong shall survive and who couldn't run a mile under 10 mins or do 50 push ups or 10 chins. Trap bar DL puts a LOT less shearing forces on the lower lumbar spine and it MUCH better and easier on the spine than traditional deadlifting. The ONLY reason to do traditional deadlifting is if you are a powerlifter competing in this lift OR are looking to see how much you can traditionally deadlift for some reason and it is safe for your structure.
From SPINAL/BACK EXPERT Dr John Rusin's website-
During the traditional deadlift, the center of mass (barbell) falls in front of your body, therefore causing the axis of rotation of the movement to be farther away from the load itself. This all translates into increased shearing forces at the joints of the lumbar spine, putting all the structures, including intervertebral discs and ligaments at increased risk of injury with faulty mechanics of movement.
ADVANTAGES OF THE TRAP BAR DEADLIFT
When compared to the straight barbell deadlift, the trap bar deadlift seems like a no brainer as a safe and effective alternative. Some of the most important advantages to the trap bar deadlift are:
Decreased Shear Forces on Lumbar Spine
Ability to Lift Heavier Loads
Stabilize your Shoulders in Neutral
Simple to Setup and Learn Proper Mechanics
Who would you listen to? An EXPERT IN SPINAL HEALTH or an out of shape high school strength coach?
The trap bar is not comparable to the standard deadlift... it's comparable to the farmers walk! Or walking with two heavy suitcases!
People argue about range of motion like it's a science, the fucking height of a bar is literally defined by the random universal size of Olympic plates, that varies depending on how tall you are.
To me it seems fantastic replacement for squats.Why? In conventional squatting you have all the weight too high up which makes no difference for legs, but huge difference for you spine, plus, trap bar strenghtens your upper body and arms. Much better for my lower back which immediately stopped hurting after squatting in this way.
Guys please keep in mind this man claims “you cannot increase your vertical jump, it’s genetic”. He’s an old head with lots of knowledge but shit changes get with it or be left behind..
The bar is at a dead stop on the ground, and you lift it. It’s an Deadlift.
Peak “Old Man Yells At Cloud”
I know this was almost 3yrs ago but it's funny that the Christmas tree is still up on the 16th of January 😂😂
After multiple back fusions and being a tall rangy guy whose low back couldn't handle barbell deadlifts, trap bar deadlifts have allowed me to get "inside" the weight and build my power strength and size. Rip's wrong on this one
In summary: “I don’t like the trap bar cuz it’s not a barbell deadlift”.
That’s like saying you hate dumbbells because they’re not a barbell bench press
What matters is that you get your ass in the gym and deadlift. Use whichever bar and weight load that best suits you.
It’s not completely useless, it’s a good tool for variation on certain exercises.
This is why I will never use a wheelbarrow, I’ll be dammed if I don’t respect the Sagittal plane
Never admired the strength of those landscapers anyway.
This made me laugh. 😂😂
Good one! 😆
You just pointed out the logical reason why this guy is blowing smoke.
the wheelbarrow is loaded and anchored on the front wheel. This movement ( I don't think it is an exercise due to it's unrestrictive movement) allows you to ride the swing. That is not something that can be reproduced and thus not effective as I can see. It probably closest resembles a squat - so squat ! unless you want to hop on the swing after each rep. Good breakdown of this movement as it is easy to see it as an easy lift.. ... too easy
“The back is the legs of the upper body” Dom’ Mazzetti
Randy Gravel I'm fat natty but look decent bc I always hit the back hard lol
The chest is just the arm's butt.