I love how these videos, despite being extremely brief, manage to achieve an incredible level of information density while also demonstrating so clearly that there’s more available without having to say it outright in the video itself at all For example, just by starting the video with “That said,...” instead of a fraction of a second later on, “This initial rise in pitch...” you can say so much, and yet it’s straight to business. And right onto the very practical, real-world level, at that And on the topic of editing, replaying a highlighted clip for emphasis is actually a really nice touch! It was just slightly jarring at first because it being the exact same threw me off a bit, so the quick-thinking part of my mind thought something was wrong and had to hand it over to slow-thinking to read the screen and process because I was so not used to that, haha. That said, I actually _like_ that it’s the exact same as it eliminates variables so to speak and provides familiarity in repetition, which puts the focus on relistening. I go back on RUclips videos to reabsorb or for various reasons rather commonly anyways, so having it built into a video as a feature seems pretty cool as it’s actually strategically planned by the teacher to help the learning process Not to imply that that’s in any way objectively superior to having something explained in a new way, but that goes both ways. They’re just different approaches to different situations, whichever is most suitable, and this works very well here imo I’m probably overthinking the crap outta this right now, lol, but as someone who loves to learn and is interested in pedagogy I appreciate good teaching methods when I find them. Even if they don’t particularly appeal to my style, as learning is so diverse on so many levels Dōgen a very targeted technique, explaining everything that needs to be explained beforehand and then diving right in, going straight for the vital points (while not getting tunnel vision either). Both of the language learning process itself or the speech production, like when he applies sounds, the most fundamental blocks of language itself, that are unfamiliar to anglophone ears to their own mother tongue so they don’t seem so different anymore, from where it can be applied right back into Japanese immediately because it’s made more familiar and therefore more tangible, maybe even a paradigm shift. Overall, he has a very clear and simple (yet not oversimplified) style with many digestible examples and exercises that are extremely easy to bite into yet give a lot to chew on and are very filling food for thought Just thought I’d share 😆
Your videos are really helping me get more confident with my Japanese. I'm currently too scared to use it in public (plus no one in Australia speaks it I swear) but I'm trying really hard to incorporate it whenever I can. :) Thank you!
最近は、意図的に高低アクセントを変えて話す若者が、増えました。 たとえば、彼氏( かれし )。 これは、「か( - )れ( _ )し( _ )」が正しいのですが、「か( - )れ( - )し( - )」と言う若い女性が多い。 この手の棒読みは他にもあって、最初は「なんのこっちゃ?」と思います。 Recently, the number of young people who intentionally change the pitch accent to speak has increased. For example, 彼氏< かれし a boyfreind >. This is correct as "か (-) れ (_) し (_)", but many young women say "か (-)れ (-) し (-)". There are other stick readings of this kind, and at first I think, "What is this?"
@Nekotaku TV それ言い始めるとローマ字での日本語の表記が統一されてなくて"si"も訓令式だと正しいのだからキリが無いのでは... "し"の発音は"si"じゃなくて"shi"だと言いますけどそもそもローマ字で日本語の発音を考えること自体間違ってますよ "し"の発音は"shi"でもないし"si"でもない あと本当に日本語学習者のことを考えるならローマ字で日本語を考えるのは絶対にやめた方がいいと思うんですけどね If you say that, the way to write Japanese in Latin alphabet is not united and "si" for "し" is correct in 訓令式ローマ字(kunreishiki romaji), so it's endless First of all, the pronunciation of "し" is neither "shi" nor "si" When you are talking about Japanese pronunciation, it's wrong to think it in Latin alphabet
@@中山健太郎-o5k I know there is a way to write like that. But it's very bad because it confuses beginners AND isn't accurate to Japanese pronunciation. It becomes a problem with names too. And many Japanese people aren't aware of this so it causes weird Japanese romaji. Yes し is "shi"... Well we have to use it and you did. So please don't use that way unless you're only writing Japanese on a keyboard.
to me, the first vowel in watashi is reduced and sounds sort of like w'tashi in quick conversations. but the remarkable point is the following "ta" and "shi" sound like they are both stressed
-Dogen, are you from the Pacific Northwest by any chance? The way you say "saying" sounds like that accent!- Edit: According to Wikitubia, the answer is yes. Man, when I learned about that quirk years ago, I did _not_ expect it to be that reliable for identifying that accent.
my Japanese teacher would get on my butt for this, I remember he would be like no no no you're not saying it right you're going up pitch. But like, it's how I best process the words so, big rip
I am really want improve my speaking and I am interested in buying access to your Patreon videos but I’m not completely sold yet. Can you post one complete lesson on RUclips so I can see what I’m buying?
Ugh, I wish I had the Japanese speaking level to start being aware of these things and applying them in a fluent manner. Language phonetics and the awareness of intonation and pitch are such cool subjects!!
Dude I'm going to Japan for a mission's trip in the summer and I'm THIS close to buying your Patreon!! I just don't know much of any grammar or vocab... I feel like I should learn that stuff before I buy your thing
what's the point when it doesn't change meaning like chinese or vietnamese tones, non natives never can sound like natives if the started learning as adults anyway
Late reply but: bad pitch accent can make you very difficult to understand. Have you ever heard someone speak your language with a foreign accent and have a lot of difficulty understanding them? it's like that. that is why learning pitch accent is important
This issue does not sound like one of pitch *accent* - - rather it sounds like a matter of sentence intonation. Of *course* in a sentence beginning with 'watashi', the pitch goes up and stays up. Only in a rather artificial situation, where some one is answering in a one word (and incomplete) sentence 'watashi' would the pitch go up and then back down on the 'shi'. And of course, for real pitch accent fun, Dogen should give us sentences with hana = flower and hana = nose;)
It's true that pronunciation and grammar are perfect, but if your intonation is different, your Japanese sounds really bad. If you pronounce "Subarasi desune" as "suburusi desun", it will sound like that if you intonation is perfect. If it's said in a weird intonation, it can be difficult to understand even if the pronunciation is close. Your intonation is pretty close to native, so why don't you verify that Japanese people can only hear intonation words? I think it's safe to say that Japanese is a language of intonation, although foreigners worry about pronunciation. 確かに発音も文法も完璧でも、イントネーション？ピッチ？アクセントが違うと、めっちゃ日本語が下手クソに聞こえます。 あなたのイントネーションはかなりネイティブに近いので、日本人がイントネーションのみで言葉を聞き取れる検証したらどうでしょうか？外国人は発音を心配しますが、日本語はイントネーションの言語だと言っても間違いないと思います。
I feel more tone-deaf everytime I try to speak Japanese
That’s a sign that you’re starting to get it, lol
Then start learning italian and you'll became an opera singer.
@@leopoldonapos7433 -machita
日本人の私でも興味深くて見に来てしまう…！日本語が外国の人からどんなふうに見られてるのか分かって面白い😌✨
Language is always so interesting and there are so many cool things to learn about every individual language, and Japanese is no exception
日本人です
確かに｢わたし｣という言葉は日本語を学ぶ時に一番最初に習うものだと思いますが、それくらい超超初歩の単語である｢わたし｣でさえ0:36~0:38のピッチアクセントで話している外国人(特に英語圏の出身の方)はかなり少ないように感じます
それなりに日本語の日常会話ができるレベル(つまり上級に位置すると言えるレベル)の外国人でも0:44~0:45の言い方をしている人をたくさん見ます
なんというか、これは外国人の方が0:36~0:38流の言い方はやりづらいからおれはこっち(0:44~0:45)でいいやと割りきっているというよりは(そういう人もいるでしょう)、そもそもこの違いを感覚的に認識していないのだと思います
道元氏はRUclipsにおいてこのテーマの第一人者だと思いますが、私が興味があるのは、道元さんがこのテーマというかこの差異に関してどのようにして自覚的になったかという点です
学習初期の段階で学校機関でこのテーマに詳しい、また重視するいい先生に出会ったのがきっかけか
当初は認識していなかったが書物を読んで知ったのがきっかけか
学習初期は知らなかったが、あとになってこのテーマに詳しい、また重視する先生に出会ったのがきっかけか
そして、上のいずれでもなく自分で学習していく中で、日本人の音声を聞いていて自分の中で違和感を覚えたのがきっかけか(つまり自力で認識したのか)
多くの外国人がスルーしてしまうこのテーマ(スルーしていることの認識すらせずスルーしている)に道元氏が気がついたきっかけに興味があります
これについて動画をつくってみますね！
@@Dogen おおお、すみません(と言ったらいかにも日本人的だな)
ありがとうございます！
guys please i can literally only say like 15 words
日本語を勉強しているほとんどの人は日本語には高低アクセントがあることが知らないでしょうね。普通の教科書にも載ってないし、学校機関でも高低アクセントに触れるところが極少ないようです。僕が通っていた言語学校の日本語の先生はネイティブの日本人だったのに、アクセントには一度も触れませんでした。日本語を勉強しはじめてから数年後、初めて何かしらのアクセントがあることがわかりました。でも、当時はネットで調べても資料とかあまりなかったから、アクセントをちゃんと意識するまでさらに数年かかりました…
@@doormaat5033 same
I love how this was actually like 10 seconds of content repeated into a minute
It's better than 10 seconds of content stretched to 10 minutes..
@@Bartholamue more adds
repetition legitimizes
@@abb5643 repetition legitimizes
@@Vulcapyro repimizes legitition
This video game me anxiety. Too many watashiwas in a just minute. My month limit is exhausted.
Absolutely devastated this wasnt a new comedy skit
Nah juz kidding i needed this thanks Dogen senpai !
The comedy in this case is interactive: hearing yourself fail at intonation is all the humor necessary.
*Dōgen-sensei
@@someguythatplaysvideogames6177 道元先生
Language really do be, pitch perfect.
😂
I love how these videos, despite being extremely brief, manage to achieve an incredible level of information density while also demonstrating so clearly that there’s more available without having to say it outright in the video itself at all
For example, just by starting the video with “That said,...” instead of a fraction of a second later on, “This initial rise in pitch...” you can say so much, and yet it’s straight to business. And right onto the very practical, real-world level, at that
And on the topic of editing, replaying a highlighted clip for emphasis is actually a really nice touch! It was just slightly jarring at first because it being the exact same threw me off a bit, so the quick-thinking part of my mind thought something was wrong and had to hand it over to slow-thinking to read the screen and process because I was so not used to that, haha. That said, I actually _like_ that it’s the exact same as it eliminates variables so to speak and provides familiarity in repetition, which puts the focus on relistening. I go back on RUclips videos to reabsorb or for various reasons rather commonly anyways, so having it built into a video as a feature seems pretty cool as it’s actually strategically planned by the teacher to help the learning process
Not to imply that that’s in any way objectively superior to having something explained in a new way, but that goes both ways. They’re just different approaches to different situations, whichever is most suitable, and this works very well here imo
I’m probably overthinking the crap outta this right now, lol, but as someone who loves to learn and is interested in pedagogy I appreciate good teaching methods when I find them. Even if they don’t particularly appeal to my style, as learning is so diverse on so many levels
Dōgen a very targeted technique, explaining everything that needs to be explained beforehand and then diving right in, going straight for the vital points (while not getting tunnel vision either). Both of the language learning process itself or the speech production, like when he applies sounds, the most fundamental blocks of language itself, that are unfamiliar to anglophone ears to their own mother tongue so they don’t seem so different anymore, from where it can be applied right back into Japanese immediately because it’s made more familiar and therefore more tangible, maybe even a paradigm shift. Overall, he has a very clear and simple (yet not oversimplified) style with many digestible examples and exercises that are extremely easy to bite into yet give a lot to chew on and are very filling food for thought
Just thought I’d share 😆
i agree with everything that youve said! you put that very well.
Your videos are really helping me get more confident with my Japanese. I'm currently too scared to use it in public (plus no one in Australia speaks it I swear) but I'm trying really hard to incorporate it whenever I can. :) Thank you!
Thanks for the help, I'll need it as I move up in my Japanese studies
I like how Dogen *uses* the video medium to his benefit often clipping and repeating sequences as required.
ah AH AH, ah AH AH, Digimon are the champions
Sorry...but I keep on hearing 'Japanese people aren't sane' xD
The going up and staying up is very interesting :o
I read this as he was saying it, and I heard it too. xD
Dogen is going to have to start shadowing English. His Japanese has gotten too good, lol.
He might just be from the Pacific Northwest; they tend to pronounce "ing" at the end of words in this manner.
Merci Dogen, this was really clear explanation !
Dogenさん ブルーの瞳が素敵！
Japanese phonetics are fascinating
Experience taught me that keeping my foreign accent/intonation is an advantage. 😌
How so? Genuinely curious.
@@She-wolf3636 cuz at least people there would give u a more simple answer rather than the more complicated one by knowing that you are still learning
The whole time i am singing a waltz with you 😂👍🏼
Damnit man you really show how a foreigner can really achieve the beautiful Japanese sound that natives just have when the speaker.
Thank you Dōgen, very cool!
Oh my Good, how many times are you saying it? Now I will never forget it!
Hey dogen. I don't have anything interesting to comment but I love all your videos
Thank you for his video
ahh I want this series so bad ;-;
It's available on his patreon.
@@XGD5layer yeah I know, can't afford it right now sadly
I can't imagine how it's going to turn out if it's wa(↑) tashi(↓) instead of wa(↓) tashi(↑)
Probably Japanese sounds really funny right now
最近は、意図的に高低アクセントを変えて話す若者が、増えました。
たとえば、彼氏( かれし )。
これは、「か( - )れ( _ )し( _ )」が正しいのですが、「か( - )れ( - )し( - )」と言う若い女性が多い。
この手の棒読みは他にもあって、最初は「なんのこっちゃ?」と思います。
Recently, the number of young people who intentionally change the pitch accent to speak has increased.
For example, 彼氏< かれし a boyfreind >.
This is correct as "か (-) れ (_) し (_)", but many young women say "か (-)れ (-) し (-)".
There are other stick readings of this kind, and at first I think, "What is this?"
Don't forget to write "shi" instead of "si" to not confuse beginners. You don't say si in Japanese, you say shi.
@Nekotaku TV それ言い始めるとローマ字での日本語の表記が統一されてなくて"si"も訓令式だと正しいのだからキリが無いのでは...
"し"の発音は"si"じゃなくて"shi"だと言いますけどそもそもローマ字で日本語の発音を考えること自体間違ってますよ
"し"の発音は"shi"でもないし"si"でもない
あと本当に日本語学習者のことを考えるならローマ字で日本語を考えるのは絶対にやめた方がいいと思うんですけどね
If you say that, the way to write Japanese in Latin alphabet is not united and "si" for "し" is correct in 訓令式ローマ字(kunreishiki romaji), so it's endless
First of all, the pronunciation of "し" is neither "shi" nor "si"
When you are talking about Japanese pronunciation, it's wrong to think it in Latin alphabet
@@中山健太郎-o5k I know there is a way to write like that. But it's very bad because it confuses beginners AND isn't accurate to Japanese pronunciation. It becomes a problem with names too. And many Japanese people aren't aware of this so it causes weird Japanese romaji.
Yes し is "shi"...
Well we have to use it and you did. So please don't use that way unless you're only writing Japanese on a keyboard.
@@Nekotaku_TV Thank you. I say し in Japanese.
@@中山健太郎-o5k Thank you. 「訓令式」が、なにかも、知りませんでした。
thank you a lot
very good
Did anyone else see the "Don't come to Miyazaki" ad? Reverse psychology works too well on me.
A-A-A reminds me of the Digimon theme in the first movie
0:35 hey that's the digimon theme
意識してなかったけどそうだね
to me, the first vowel in watashi is reduced and sounds sort of like w'tashi in quick conversations. but the remarkable point is the following "ta" and "shi" sound like they are both stressed
-Dogen, are you from the Pacific Northwest by any chance? The way you say "saying" sounds like that accent!- Edit: According to Wikitubia, the answer is yes. Man, when I learned about that quirk years ago, I did _not_ expect it to be that reliable for identifying that accent.
yeah im tone deaf when it comes to my own voice so thats fun
Wait dogen actually makes real lessons
he makes full lessons regularly for access on patreon :) link in the description.
@@hrashidi100 How much money does this dude need? I'm already paying for his Onlyfans, so it's not reasonable for me to pay for his Patreon too.
@@cutecommie i think that he lives off of it. what's onlyfans?
@@hrashidi100 I think he was joking xD, but it’s like a thing people pay for to access... erm... adult content, if I’m not mistaken
@@hrashidi100 to my knowledge I highly fought Dogen has an Onlyfans, but I could be wrong
I see..so that works for Eng native speakers, does it work on other languages too?
(I'm Italian)
0:43 I've seen shit like human centipede, but i still hold on the opinon that the weirdest thing ever is an american trying to speak japanese.
But is the centipede atamadaka, nakadaka or heibon?
my Japanese teacher would get on my butt for this, I remember he would be like no no no you're not saying it right you're going up pitch. But like, it's how I best process the words so, big rip
At this point you could publish a research paper about Chinese tones because apparently your work on Japanese phonetic intonation may help that lol
uP
Anyone else hear “Engwish”?
Gweat
あ゛あ゛あ゛
I though I was the only one...
あ、まじめな配信もあるんだ…
waTASHI
Hi Dogen I always watch your videos. Do you know some japanese thesaurus?
Let your ancestor teaches you,which is me, 米春燕. Your name in fact is "热本". 我们现在也叫"热头". Thanks.
Yeah, hearing someone curse "chikSHOU!" sounds correct whole "chiKUshou" sounds just weird.
ああ
あ
たし
わ
I think I've figured it out!
**Is speaking in nose**
Yeah still not hearing any differences
A lot of Japanese nowadays say わたしは in the same pitch though.
that was mentioned at the start
a a a ... I think I finally understand
デゥーシュバッグ
I am really want improve my speaking and I am interested in buying access to your Patreon videos but I’m not completely sold yet. Can you post one complete lesson on RUclips so I can see what I’m buying?
I think he has posted the full episodes 1,2 and 3 already
So early that i don't know what to comment.
お菓子！
I have to ask, is the 1$ patron membership level have access to japanese phonetics?
Ugh, I wish I had the Japanese speaking level to start being aware of these things and applying them in a fluent manner. Language phonetics and the awareness of intonation and pitch are such cool subjects!!
日本語上手ですね。
Dude I'm going to Japan for a mission's trip in the summer and I'm THIS close to buying your Patreon!!
I just don't know much of any grammar or vocab... I feel like I should learn that stuff before I buy your thing
Yea best to study a bit beforehand!
@@Dogen AAAAAH THANKS FOR RESPONDING I LOVE YOU AND YOUR VIDEOS
Holy dix
gollum
what's the point when it doesn't change meaning like chinese or vietnamese tones, non natives never can sound like natives if the started learning as adults anyway
Late reply but: bad pitch accent can make you very difficult to understand. Have you ever heard someone speak your language with a foreign accent and have a lot of difficulty understanding them? it's like that. that is why learning pitch accent is important
no views but 5 likes. i came too fast i guess :/
@@HenryYoungx a she would never come too fast. and even if she did, a she can repeat, where as most hes cannot unfortunately for the shes.
this is why we dont stalk..... 🤣😛💞
This issue does not sound like one of pitch *accent* - - rather it sounds like a matter of sentence intonation. Of *course* in a sentence beginning with 'watashi', the pitch goes up and stays up. Only in a rather artificial situation, where some one is answering in a one word (and incomplete) sentence 'watashi' would the pitch go up and then back down on the 'shi'.
And of course, for real pitch accent fun, Dogen should give us sentences with hana = flower and hana = nose;)
Hi! Not sure what you mean. Pitch never goes back down on the ‘shi’, and people regularly say ‘watashi’ in isolation in Japanese.
Listening to you makes absolutely no sense. Repeating after you on the other hand.
bok bok?
I'm so bad at intonations with Japanese...
It's true that pronunciation and grammar are perfect, but if your intonation is different, your Japanese sounds really bad.
If you pronounce "Subarasi desune" as "suburusi desun", it will sound like that if you intonation is perfect. If it's said in a weird intonation, it can be difficult to understand even if the pronunciation is close.
Your intonation is pretty close to native, so why don't you verify that Japanese people can only hear intonation words?
I think it's safe to say that Japanese is a language of intonation, although foreigners worry about pronunciation.
確かに発音も文法も完璧でも、イントネーション？ピッチ？アクセントが違うと、めっちゃ日本語が下手クソに聞こえます。
あなたのイントネーションはかなりネイティブに近いので、日本人がイントネーションのみで言葉を聞き取れる検証したらどうでしょうか？外国人は発音を心配しますが、日本語はイントネーションの言語だと言っても間違いないと思います。