"How dare you say Etie is highinvestment, all you gotta do is waste Lyn, master seal, second seal, give her the best bow in the game and she'll get 8200% of your kills. You must have a sad life and run only safe units, leave the challenge of maddening to us bruh." -The life of an Etie simp.
@@veiotisligon9140I mean relative to engage her strength is very high growth wise. The typical strength growth for physical units is about 30% and most units in these classes want a class that actively boost their strength like wyvern or warrior. Etie’s 40% just wants classes that boost her speed instead and she literally has the option to promote into one no second seal needed in the form of bow knight. Bow knight is in the upper half of classes she could be in at least and most the cast honestly are in the lower half by base and kagetsu and pannette are just legitimately in the worst physical classes for themselves the only thing worse would be if they started in magic like how clanne or Anna start in a class that uses the wrong stat for them. I’d argue etie is low investment but also low reward. You can get a meh unit out of her very easily. It’s easier to get her to start doubling then some other high strength low speed units because she can promote into a class which helps on the speed front. Then She can shoot fliers fine with little investment and she can even double some enemy types as a bow knight. That +3 speed on promotion just helps her so much but you still have a unit that at most survives 1 hit and her strength is only above average not stellar.
good list personally I would put Ivy in lower since I think the speed fixing she needs takes more effort then just giving her lyn and her hit rates can get pretty bad once you reach endgame.
they would get exp and become better. More interesting is all of the units that coffee thinks that are bad he should do a playthrough with only those units.
Great video as always, you are the one not with only theoretical information but with practical uses and tests. I feel like Goldmary has a low investment usage case (middle to top of A tier), with 1800 starting and SP she has lance hero class and 200 SP away from Dual assist+, no seal needed. She is bulky enough to not die unless you play her too aggresively and she'll provide chip damage to help treshold for 1 turn kill on your selected main squad on player turn. Basically a filler for maps where you can field 11+ characters.
Celine can also use Levin Sword with Corrin as her emblem in her Vidame class. Plus as a mystical unit she can use Fire Vein without needing to be a Sage. She can also use Byleth for the spell range +2 Thyrsus offers. Divine Pulse is another good tool for Celine that can use status staves. Citrinne could get Hold Out from Roy if you want her to be a meat shield and then Generous Gift + Gentle Flower could be a method of a pseudo full heal with an elixir.
As someone who has used vander I think he should have his own little tier just called don't even bother I'll be honest I think that with a lot of obstruct use jean isn't really that hard to get to level 10, the one time I've used him he got into berserker before chapter 10 As for the dlc units I personally think nel requires a decent amount of investment because she sorta has the lorenz effect of being too balanced(not to mention that magic of her will barely matter in her personal class because flame lance bad), though maybe she can be a dragon vein spammer, rafal typically wants a reclass because his base class gives really bad stat modifiers, madeline typically only needs hit fixing and a reclass to be able to use swords though I suppose her high bulk could become a detriment on maddening all I know is on hard she is seth tier braindead and definitly more worth investing in then alfred, gregory also needs hit fixing though he does have some special niches like being one of the best res tanks and having inherent staves, zelestia I honestly don't know because I wasn't a fan of her so I haven't used her though looking at her bases and growths the only thing ivy has over zelestia is staff access otherwise zelestia has the same strenghts without needing anything close to as much hit and spd fixing so honestly ivy probably should drop a tier from that perspective because ivy does need a big amount of investment to fix her issues while zelestia doesn't
Im glad someone else has seen how great Fogado is. I remember that people used to say Fogado was bad or "he works maybe as a warrior". And I was just like, it sounds like you havent used him to me. At one point I thought Fogado was the best unit in the game flat out. Maybe Pandreo is idk, but hes close.
He is best on his default, but his growths are so bad that he requires an insane amount of investment to make him as good as many others. His caps are very high, especially in speed and magic, so he will become the best Radiant Bow user eventually... but that eventually is post game only. The big thing that hurts him is his bad dex, which gets fixed in post game. S tier post game unit, B tier story game unit.
His lord promo has a garbage ability, but his speed lets him leverage doubling with radiant bows. The other unit who does well with radiant bows is Anna, but she needs leveling, a seal, and some sp assistance to get the minimum speed to make it work well.
@@MasterStaconahe is only slowed by radiant bow with lyn engrave by 1 point post promotion, which also fixes his accuracy issue, I have no idea how you are not doubling with him when he joins immediately able to inherit speed+3 and around the time enemies are heavily weighed down by their weapons.
@@klodpraisor he still cannot double, does even less damage, gives one shoting fliers, and waste a hit engrave on a dedicated archer. He is a great post game unit that is average for the story game.
I guess most are kinda fine on the list, the only outliers for me: Framme, she is lvl 1, it's gonna take you like 100+ heals to get her to promotion lvl, so she probably doesn't belong in Low investment. I don't think I can even get her lvl 7 with just healing + chain guard when going into C7 with lvl 10+ units joining. Clanne, he is lvl 1 and Alfred joins lvl 5 the very next map, Clanne is never gaining +4 lvls in just 1 map with his competition Alear. Even Etie is lvl 4 the next map and is entitled most of the exp from all the fliers in that map. Timerra, yea I don't know how you get a lvl 18/1 unit +4 lvls without doing the Lyn paralogue Grind. That's more work getting Zelkov lvl 17 out of thief class who gains more exp and also needs +4 lvls.
I want to try boucheron with a level 5 Solm donation. It would be a very high investment of course but that axe would solve his damage and he has the highest build in the game so he wouldn’t be hindered speed wise. Emblem/Skills can focus on everything else
Etie is an amazing Lucina user, she have an stupid amount of supports with a lot of units, as an enchanter she is amazing as she doesnt really want that much exp or anything and bennefits a lot in supporting with daggers, but i guess we cant take into account the dlc classes, overall pretty bad as you said, is just that as an enchanter is pretty good imo, Also if you plan on using Alear as a support, he doesnt even need that much exp either, depending on who will be your early units i feel she can be used and fed a little bit and make her kinda functional, i feel she would be low end C
currently on my first maddening run of engage. i found etie and clanne to be really useful, with some minimal investment. i gave clanne a elsurge by CH6 for massive damage, and etie got a forged +3 steel bow. they were able to do REALLY WELL with just some useful weapons, and when promoted to a mage knight and bow knight, they serve as really good early game ranged damage users, along with great counters to tikis map. giving either sigurd is also a great idea, though i gave that to other units who would want the canter or momentum. though i dont know if this is 100% consistent, i think my clanne and etie have gotten really lucky with level ups.
@@PetraMacneary if you know how to work with someone who only has high strength, she will be great. Coffee likes jacks of all trades, masters of none. If he sees any weakness, then he thinks they are bad; those characters are also not good at anything. Assigning roles to characters will actually be a stronger army with a balance of tanks - supports - damage. This is why Louis is very underrated because he is a tank that carries with his damage output and he has a good passive too. Tanks you want both true tanks and avoid tanks to deal with situations; only really need 1 avoid tank though to lure in enemy magic damage. [General and Wolf Knight. Wolf Knight also provides the -2 movement which is handy and can give Lucina ring for the dagger chain attacks to apply poison stacks for the army does even more damage (I ban Bonded Shield usage personally, it makes the game boring and too easy if you use it). Swap on General can actually be pretty useful sometimes, there have been very cool strategic moments I have done with it to get the squishy damage to safety to kill a target.] Supports you want someone with little to no investment, so someone like Citrinne who only needs magic is great since all the other stats are irrelevant except for dex; so she only needs thoron and can hold 4 staves for more utility options to deal with every situation. [Mage Cannoneer, Enchanter, Martial Master, and somewhat Griffin Knight other options for support classes. Royal Knight is F tier, never run.] Damage is those that deal the most damage, probably the highest investment characters, and naturally will get the most kills and kill exp.
@@MasterStacona i hear this a lot, and there's probably good reason for it. but clanne has pretty nice bulk, honestly. which gives him a unique role, similar to odin in fates, where he can tank a hit and hit back with decent magic. though ill probably switch him to physical in the late game if his magic is TOO unimpressive.
@@MasterStaconathis is a pretty silly point Its a strategy game, specialists are nice, but if you have units that can do everything with little investment, then of course they're better. Less you have to put into them the better they are Also saying they're not great at anything is just not true haha
As the Boucheron guy I can say all he requires is damage fixing and you can give him early Noatún refines which is pretty accurate and gives him damage. When he gets into Warrior he's pretty good and he's honestly one of the best early options for investment, granted he does need to promote and the early game Master Seals are highly contested. All in all, I can see him being in the spot he is in, but personally I find him easy to get working and would probably put him at the bottom of B.
All he needs is brute force, lunar brace+, or axe power - just one of these - and he is good. If you make him an axe griffin knight then he will maintain double/quad status for the entire game against most units (except the really fast enemy units that no one can double on Maddening).
It does not take much for Boucheron to be good pre-chapter 10. Like you said, just give him a noatun, and he is very serviceable. But investing in him long term just feels like a waste. His base stats look like they are better then they are, because he is starting in a class with high base strength. But once you are comparing units in the same class, it becomes pretty clear that he is just outclassed in every way. If you prioritize him for exp, and you give him a master seal, and you keep focusing him down for exp to him up to internal level 15 (Warrior 7 if you promote at 10), then after the investment you get a unit who is worse then kagetsu and merrin, who join at IL 15 with no investment. If you put them in the same class, and hand all three of them ANY weapon, no matter how heavy, Merrin and Kagetsu will both be faster then him. Because their speed difference is greater then their build difference. AND they will have a 3-5 strength lead on him. The further into the game you go, the bigger the damage difference will be as well, because his strength growth is so low at 20. They will always be stronger, and they will always be faster. So, if you make him into a combat unit, he will be a slower AND weaker version of your speedy options, and he will be MUCH weaker then your massive strength options like Panette and Amber. All that to say, Boucheron is not a bad unit. He is ~fine.~ But he requires mild investment to just be ~fine~ (early exp and early master seal), and then takes even more investment to actually be good (multiple stat boosters to be on par with the better units at their base) and even more investment to actually be amazing. I would call that above average personally.
@@LAaronB10 boucheron is insanely good end game, you slap him on axe griffin at level 10 and does not need much after that point - tomahawk and well axe and you good at level 40, merrin and kagetsu could have 2 more speed, and then would be weighed down by the same weapons as boucheron and be slower. So bouch is faster the whole game
@@MasterStacona "at level 40, merrin and kagetsu could have 2 more speed," I don't know where you got your numbers from, but this is not right. Here is all three at IL 40, Griffin Knight (assuming immediate re class into Griffin) Boucheron. Str-20, Spd-33, Bld-14 Kagetsu. Str-28, Spd-40, Bld-10 Merrin. Str25, Spd-40, Bld - 10 Boucheron has a 4 Bld lead, but a 7 speed deficit. He is always slower. Is is also 5/8 strength weaker. And this is assuming he ever actually catches up to the two of them, and they are even levels. When in practice, they will likely be a couple levels higher then him all game. Again, Boucheron is a fine unit, and is certainly usable. But he both requires more investment than, and is still outclassed by, both merrin and kagetsu.
I would argue Chloe is more on the average side than on lower side, before promotion i find her strenght to be somewhat lacking and her low build means that her speed is also getting hampered by stronger weapons, i believe the fensalir weighs her down by at least 2/3 points, she's much in need of an emblem ring hower she makes up for that by being very damn solid when she gets going. All in all i will say this list is pretty accurate tho
IMO, she requires the least amount of resources to be get going long term of any pre-10 unit. But obviously more then the prepromotes that come later. Everything that she needs to get going is The Standard Things you should be giving to any of the early units you plan on using long term. Namely: a master seal, an emblem ring so she can gain SP, and a forged weapon so she can kill stuff right away. Every pre-chapter 10 that, if you want to use them long term, needs all 3 of those things, except yunaka who can skip the master seal. But everyone else needs further investment to turn into solid end game units. For the record, at base Chloe with a +3 fensalir is slowed down by 1. If you give her the sigurd ring or the sigurd engrave, she is not slowed down at all. But even with -1, she will be way faster then anyone else you have at that point.
I dont tend to use celine but one thing she has going for her is she's the only unit who can use levin sword, Thoron, AND staves. But her stats dont really back it up sadly.
i would argue goldmary's a low investment unit by virtue of starting in hero and being two levels away from getting brave assist and having 2000 SP to inherit dual assist+. trying to make her work as a combat unit isn't really worthwhile as there are other combat units you'll want to sink EXP into but she's helpful to deploy on a map as just a utility dual assist unit once you get those two levels in
Goldmary above average investment huh. When she just need dual assist+ and 2 levels to be a meaningful contribution. Interesting. Not necessarily saying the build is good but it’s not about build strength but how quickly you get there and honestly you might could argue she’s lower investment then fogado. You either go out of your way to forge the radiant bow or you have to wait a bit to get the chest one and then you should probably forge that and just use him for combat he’s naturally good at. You stop deploying him he will eventually stop being good. 2 small sp books and a small amount of exp to get her to 5 is what goldmary needs. And if when you get late in the game you are looking for a 14th unit cuz you got more deploy slots and are looking for someone to just throw in there and do ANYTHING useful since all the units with good combat are already deployed dual assist + heros are handy for that similar to staff units.
You could consider her lower investment as a dual assist bot. As a hard carry she is more, so I could have specified that build archetype and mentioned it is more or less free to run
Depends on perspective lol. If you want Seadoll to hard carry on dancer you need... Lucina bond lvl Flashing fist +5 Lunar brace+ Gentility+ (8k total sp) 1 spirit dust So his definitely the highest investment unit 😂 jk Just use him for dancing don't do this lol.
I'm not really sure I can get behind this concept. It just doesn't play nice with the way Engage is structured. The idea seems to be the amount of work it takes to get a unit up to parity with your team so they can contribute for the whole game. But many units are quite frankly, not meant to be used for the whole game. Vander is the classic example. His job is mainly tanking hits and dealing chip damage up through chapter 8 or so. And he requires 0 investment to do that. Etie's job is killing fliers until you get Alcryst, and if you want 2 anti-flier units, she can fulfill that role effectively through chapter 10. Again, no investment required. Celine is a good magic attacker capable of doubling nicely... until you start getting units that can double with Bolganone. Minimal investment. I'd be interested in a "lifespan usefulness" tier list. Roughly, how many chapters of the game will a unit be a strong option, minus the number of chapters in the game it takes to make them into a good option. Once a unit becomes a bad option, you stop counting. And of course, you'd have to weigh them (more subjectively) based on just how good/bad they are, and also some by chapter length (counting chapters 1 and 2 the same as chapter 25 would be silly.) The lowest score would be 0. Useless when recruited. Impossible to make into a good unit. The highest would be a unit available for the full game that is always the best character. That character gets 1 point for 30 chapters, for a total score of 30. A character that needs to be brought along for training purposes, but is entirely dead weight for 3 chapters, then the best unit for 10 chapters, may get -1 for each of the 3 chapters, +1 for each of the 10 chapters, for a total score of 7. A unit that is always average for 20 chapters may get 1/2 point fer each chapter, for a total of 10. A unit that is your best unit for 8 chapters, then becomes completely useless and is benched gets 8 points. No penalty for later chapters, since you can just bring somebody else in and this unit is causing you no harm. It's kind of like just promoting into the new weakest contributor on your team worth bringing. And of course, a unit that would be dead weight for 20 chapters, then your best unit for 10 chapters, gets a score of 0, because those 20 chapters are simply not worth the payoff.
everyone always hates on Clanne but i kid you not..invest in him and make him a wolf knight and you got a even better unit then Yunaka, Merrin and Zelkov! Clanne also has high speed so just put him with Leif and you get a extra avoid boost with knives! my Clanne probably has the highest speed from all my units so hes a dodge tank
Clanne can be a fine unit. But he is not going to be better then Merrin lol If you hyper focus clanne, and get him all the way up to IL 15 (mage 10/wolf knight 7), which is the level Merrin joins at (and it is nearly impossible to feed him this much exp by that point), he will be worse then Merrin's base stats. +5 HP, +4 Str, +3 Mag (lol), +-0 Dex, -1 Spd, +-0 Def, +1 Res, +4 Lck, +3 Build He has +1 Spd, but loses in every other category. And his build is low enough that he is weighed down by a silver dagger, taking away even the slight speed advantage. And that is not going to change with time either, because merrin has equal or better growths in every category, except Strength. But Clanne stars out 4 strength behind her, and only has a 10% higher growth, meaning he would need to level up *40* more times just to catch up and tie her.
I don't want to sound mean but it feels like you haven't used the dlc units enough to give a proper analysis, my presumption is either your dislike with the dlc made you not want to bother or having to play the dlc every run was too much(the latter you can fix by creating a safefile with the dlc beaten and copying it and the former, well to each their own) rafal to me doesn't seem like a good panette equivalent, since you have to kill someone close to him it's a lot less consistent, he is also significantly bulkier then her, I think he is the better dragonstone user as he has better strenght then nel and as such can use them much more effectively, though wyvern knight rafal also isn't bad, I feel he's more of an inbetween of panette's strenght and an armor's tankyness not being as specialized as either but dragonstones are a really good weapon due to the defense resistance halving effect meaning they do good damage even without being able to be forged and having high hit nel feels a bit overrated, from my experience her personal class similar to veyle is better as a support class with dragonveins or something else, I'll be honest I've never used her outside of her personal class but her growths and personal skill don't really impress me that much though she might have a niche as a mage knight with obscurite since veyle is often reclassed into a non tome class like wolf knight or griffin gregory is like a more extreme version of citrinne, that said he has his own issues as well as his own advantages, first off all unlike her he has inherent staves meaning he can access A staves on sage or more importantly B staves on griffin, he's also got some unconventional mage stats, his strenght defense hp and build are pretty decent so he might have some potential in a mixed role, his personal skill could hypothetically make him a great dodge tank but I personally don't think that's best for him, he is also a really good res tank wich while niche did allow me to have him solo the thoron mage reinforcements on the right side on chapter 21 hard mode as he actually instakilled them with his own thoron on retaliation while taking no damage though obviously that would be different on maddening still there are some niche use cases like safely approaching the meteor mage on the sigurd paralog, usually I think the main thing he needs is hit fixing through sigurd's skill, a little speed to prevent him from getting double too often can help but he usually deals around the same damage other units do while doubling so him not doubling isn't that big of a problem, now it does mean that with investment anna can be better though he can still get work done madeline section kinda gave me the view because you really just went I heard she has bad hit and just kinda went based on vibes, now madeline had her flaws but if you invest in her she is typically around the same level as louis, it's not like the other armors have that much more hit then her, madeline's main strenghts are her very big bulk and very big strenght and her bug weakness is her hit and speed depending on what you wanna do with her(res really isn't that much of a big deal, sure if she is in range of a mage she will likely die but at that point you're literally like that really annoying stereotype some people use when being against casual mode of people just being to dumb to not put their fliers outside of an archer's range), like gregory she wants sigurd's hit + skill wich is pretty easy to get since most people recommend doing the dlc around that timeframe, I think she is better as a great knight then a general since it gives her the silver sword wich is stronger then the iron axe while having more hit wich partnered with hector can let her enemy phase really well, though that probably works better on hard then maddening, still she has really high strenght so she is probably one of the best users of brave weapons in the game, I've even heard someone put her in sniper or something and seeing success with her high strenght zelestia is more complicated then ivy2, the big thing ivy has over zelestia is staff access(unless we count micaiah wich doesn't really go that well with zelestia's kit), that said zelestia has several things over ivy, her ivy's personal skill basically doesn't exist while zelestia's can sometimes help especially if you have units with low hit nearby or who just want that extra push to 100% so you don't miss a 90% and screw up your whole strategy, the big thing is her dex and speed, not only are her bases higher, her base growths are higher and when you ad the class bonus onto that there is a significant gap between ivy's dex speed growth and zelestia's, this basically means zelest loses staves in exchange for not having to deal with ivy's biggest problem and unlike ivy you don't need to waste lyn on her, now most of this is just from a surface glance since I've never used zelest outside of the dlc story, but a whole 7 more base speed, 45% dex growth and 65% spd growth are a pretty bug difference overall I think the dlc units could use some more experimentation, especially from someone like you who tries many different builds from what you've said
Here I will change my DLC unit analysis in terms of investment: All are extremely high because you need to pay for DLC then do an entire alternate side campaign to unlock them.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming unless you're able to play this on an emulator. (Which is how I'm able to play, beat the dlc, now going through the rest of the main story)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I guess if you count time investment that is technically true, still disappointing but I guess if you dislike the dlc that much all I can do is respect that
that's always the aspect of this game I disliked compared to FE3H, your gonna struggle to bring your units with you instead of being rewarded for making them mvps of the battlefield.
The default answer is female, because she can proc Louis and Merrin's personal skills You could possibly build a team that would rather alear be male to proc chloe's personal. Like if you are running all/mostly female recruits. Other then that, there is basically no difference between the two genders.
I prefer male alear purely for aesthetic (and if you have a majority female team with Chloe as mentioned) because his eyes are not uncanny and his voice lines are much better delivered.
S - Seadall (He dances.) Citrinne (She is the second lowest investment unit in the game.) Gregory (Male Citrinne.) Louis (Normal and Hard, brain dead unit. Maddening you have to know how to use him properly as the game goes on, but this unit is insanely great! Tanks and hard carries!) Alear (you don't need to give her any exp to be useful) Veyle (great Byleth user) Amber (Master Seal -> Second Seal into a warrior, pretty low investment to get him going assuming your Warrior carry gets exp) Hortensia (5 staves, no exp needed or weapon) Lapis (Wolf Knight her with Micaiah engrave silver dagger, she becomes an insane avoid tank) Merrin (pretty similar to Lapis, but slightly worse, minus no master or second seal required) Rafal (this unit is so good, great passives and growths, plus is a dragon user) Madeline (She needs hit fixing and lack of supports does not help with that.) A - Framme (she requires a little bit of investment, she is also becoming a carry in every run too) Celine (pretty good initially with good growths, there are multiple classes she can become where she can pop off on) Kagetsu (second seal into a sniper and go for crits) Mauvier (he makes for a great Sage) Panette (make her an axe general with Ike ring, this will work with her passive better, but she won't be a hard tank because she is lower on the defense side) B - Nel (She is hot. Also, she is a dragon.) Boucheron (he gets really good if you know what class to second seal him into, he is slightly easier to get to level 10 than Anna and his growths are very worth it to pop off) Etie (know what class to put her on, she is pretty easy to get to level 10) Jean (if you know what class to put him on, he is pretty low investment and can really pop off. If you second seal at level 1, Archer or Axe Armour, he is very good as an axe general or sniper; or you can keep him on his base class and second seal him at level 10 into a Sage and give him 4 staves with thoron and is he very good this way too.) Zelkov (He ~exists~.) C - Zelestia (need works, but not a trash version of Ivy. Still isn't that good overall though.) Anna (she is worth it, but does require attention) Fogado (he requires an insane investment to do well, his growths are not very good outside of speed, but if you invest heavily into him then he has the stat caps to be really good) Chloe (harder to get going than Anna, she does no damage, a real struggle to get her to level 10 and even if you invest heavily into her she peaks at average performance. Not worth it. You are insanely bias towards Chloe.) Clanne (He has the growths to be good, but he has a lot of investment.) Alfred (he has the growths to be good, just needs a bit to get him going and knowing what class to put him on) Goldmary (she is a pretty bad unit since the only thing she can do is be a physical wall, she does not have the benefit of Louis where he is a physical wall and able to one shot fools with his damage output) Lindon (Pretty bad. Bad growths so not worth investing, decent if you need an extra unit.) Saphir (Pretty much in a similar spot as Lindon. Also a 35 year old that looks 60.) Jade (has pretty bad growths, can be decent) Timerra (she is pretty high investment, she has good growths to eventually get good, but she does need quite a bit of investment) Yunaka (she needs pretty high amount of investment) D - Alcryst (his class is a worse sniper and he doesn't have very good growths, so you have to do a lot to make him work) Bunet (growths are weak) Diamat (He is very bad.) Ivy (This unit is bad.) Vander - Vander (he is Vander, trash past the very early game, very good during that time) Rosado (He keeps dying to the dragon, I don't know what to say...)
“Chloé does no damage?” She is literally about the same strength as the other units on your team whilst being faster than all of them and having access to a Lance that she uses better than all of them.
@@goroadachi9489 What I would do for Chloe is give her a Levin Sword as a Sword Griffin Knight with 4 staves, completely ignore her physical side. Sword power if you want more damage. This would be Chloe's best option. Magic damage dealer with stave utility. Boucheron best is Axe Griffin Knight, naturally has way more damage because of the axes and has a higher crit rate because of his dex growth, so even more kill potential, and his passive is significantly easier to proc - just with Lucina ring being active, you have a 70% chance for +2 might with no setup. And the Well Axe is a crit axe, so it is best on Boucheron, but you prob cap out at +3 because of the forge cost becomes steep after that- but that is +6 might, +14 might if you max it out with increased crit rate (hit rate does not increase with forge). Lance is only good if you are a physical character that either needs more hit rate than an axe and/or want to make use of Sigurd and his ultimate. Otherwise you want swords for their accuracy and lightweight nature or axes for their might.
@@MasterStacona Well in early game she is objectively your best unit as, archers aside, she can survive most encounters and kill quite a number of the enemies. And sometimes even one round the archers, and likely just one rounds mages. Give her the Heroes Lance (which is not being competed for) and she does more damage. You could make her a griffin with 4 staves or just turn her into a Wyvern so she can use two weapons effectively and have better strength. Also Boucheron’s passive in the early game is somewhat dead, while Chloé’s is not, and towards the end game neither make much of a difference.
@@goroadachi9489 Objectively your best units are Alear, Framme, and Louis. Alear because you have to use her and her passive. Framme because she is your only healer. Louis because he is an immortal wall that nukes everything he touches. Chloe kills one mage on her opening chapter, then you have to baby and protect her all while being completely useless and unable to deal damage and unable to tank; and she gets worse as the game goes on, Boucheron scales into end game. Meanwhile, Louis is on his tower of fortitude tanking the entire enemy army solo. This map is well designed in teaching the player though. Teaches you that Louis is an immortal wall and you should run him every time. Teaches you that Chloe sucks butt and you should never use her. Teaches you about Celica's ultimate to save Chloe's useless butt.
@@MasterStacona Oh great you mean Louis who may take forever to kill the enemies around that choke point due to his accuracy issues? Also Chloé more importantly can actually kill those Pegasus knights in that area.
You need to stop with the Clanne slander. Citrinne and Celine better than him?!? Bro is the best early game mage. Celine=low damage and slow Citrinne=really slow Clanne= doubles Idk man. Once you give him Celica with a speed tonic man be cookin
Clanne has so much potential with speed based builds, he just needs so much help fixing either his strength or his magic depending on which way you want to go. As much as I love my boy it's a big flaw he has to roll with
Clanne is not bad, but he takes a lot to fix him for maddening, he might double but it's no use if he does 3x2 damage. He needs a lot of EXP and his low magic growth means damage fixing his magic is hard. And then making him a physical unit means you train him to lvl 10 as a mage with poor str growth, promote him and reclass him, and he still needs str fixing and damage fixing bc he has terrible str bases and his class didnt help for that. Céline is not so slow that a speed+5 or Speetaker can't make her double and on Celica she does the most damage with Warp Ragnarok early game. Citrinne might be slow, but who needs to double when you can make her one shot or deal more than others doubling with just one hit? Also Lyn + Speed+5 just fixes her speed pretty easily specially if you promite her to Mage Knight. So yes Clanne has a lot going against him, but he can work. Mind you on Hard or lower difficulties Clanne can do pretty good damage, but the Maddening thresholds are pretty steep.
@@sergiolink7586 all you said is correct before the well. The well is in the game almost everything can be mitigated away. You only need 24 magic with sword power 5 to be an effective mage knight at endgame. As long as you double
@@godssword6501 Yeah, the well makes things easier, but you know what also becomes easier to do? Making everyone else better too. Again Clanne is not bad, but he still takes more than speed fixing Céline or getting Citrinne to one shotting range. Not that he's not worth it, just still harder to get going.
"How dare you say Etie is highinvestment, all you gotta do is waste Lyn, master seal, second seal, give her the best bow in the game and she'll get 8200% of your kills. You must have a sad life and run only safe units, leave the challenge of maddening to us bruh."
-The life of an Etie simp.
Can confirm, I am the Etie simp
Imagine simping for Etie in a game with Goldmary and Ivy in it.
@@eustacemcgoodboy9702 Hortensia,Framme, and Anna are better.
@@chrishansen8181 fam?
@@chrishansen8181 Why don't you have a seat right over there...
Etie can't catch a break, even on Christmas
I mean they built her like a crummy version of Charlotte from fates but with a worse speed and strength growth
@@veiotisligon9140I mean relative to engage her strength is very high growth wise. The typical strength growth for physical units is about 30% and most units in these classes want a class that actively boost their strength like wyvern or warrior. Etie’s 40% just wants classes that boost her speed instead and she literally has the option to promote into one no second seal needed in the form of bow knight. Bow knight is in the upper half of classes she could be in at least and most the cast honestly are in the lower half by base and kagetsu and pannette are just legitimately in the worst physical classes for themselves the only thing worse would be if they started in magic like how clanne or Anna start in a class that uses the wrong stat for them. I’d argue etie is low investment but also low reward. You can get a meh unit out of her very easily. It’s easier to get her to start doubling then some other high strength low speed units because she can promote into a class which helps on the speed front. Then She can shoot fliers fine with little investment and she can even double some enemy types as a bow knight. That +3 speed on promotion just helps her so much but you still have a unit that at most survives 1 hit and her strength is only above average not stellar.
Won't stop me from using her 🙏
good list personally I would put Ivy in lower since I think the speed fixing she needs takes more effort then just giving her lyn and her hit rates can get pretty bad once you reach endgame.
I cant wait to watch this. Merry Christmas everyone!!!
The perfect holiday gift; more Engage tier lists!
It would be interesting to see a “lowest investment” challenge run, in which you tried to invest the fewest resources into your units as possible.
they would get exp and become better.
More interesting is all of the units that coffee thinks that are bad he should do a playthrough with only those units.
Great video as always, you are the one not with only theoretical information but with practical uses and tests.
I feel like Goldmary has a low investment usage case (middle to top of A tier), with 1800 starting and SP she has lance hero class and 200 SP away from Dual assist+, no seal needed. She is bulky enough to not die unless you play her too aggresively and she'll provide chip damage to help treshold for 1 turn kill on your selected main squad on player turn. Basically a filler for maps where you can field 11+ characters.
Thank you for fixing "D High", the lack of a dash was killing me
Celine can also use Levin Sword with Corrin as her emblem in her Vidame class. Plus as a mystical unit she can use Fire Vein without needing to be a Sage. She can also use Byleth for the spell range +2 Thyrsus offers. Divine Pulse is another good tool for Celine that can use status staves.
Citrinne could get Hold Out from Roy if you want her to be a meat shield and then Generous Gift + Gentle Flower could be a method of a pseudo full heal with an elixir.
This is all very accurate and even if it's not intended as a power ranking it ends up looking almost the same as a power ranking tier list.
Merry Christmas ICG, may Sommie leave you with nice presents.
Happy holidays!
isvander the fastest out scaled jigan in series?, I think even jigan of fe1 lasts awhile
As someone who has used vander I think he should have his own little tier just called don't even bother
I'll be honest I think that with a lot of obstruct use jean isn't really that hard to get to level 10, the one time I've used him he got into berserker before chapter 10
As for the dlc units I personally think nel requires a decent amount of investment because she sorta has the lorenz effect of being too balanced(not to mention that magic of her will barely matter in her personal class because flame lance bad), though maybe she can be a dragon vein spammer, rafal typically wants a reclass because his base class gives really bad stat modifiers, madeline typically only needs hit fixing and a reclass to be able to use swords though I suppose her high bulk could become a detriment on maddening all I know is on hard she is seth tier braindead and definitly more worth investing in then alfred, gregory also needs hit fixing though he does have some special niches like being one of the best res tanks and having inherent staves, zelestia I honestly don't know because I wasn't a fan of her so I haven't used her though looking at her bases and growths the only thing ivy has over zelestia is staff access otherwise zelestia has the same strenghts without needing anything close to as much hit and spd fixing so honestly ivy probably should drop a tier from that perspective because ivy does need a big amount of investment to fix her issues while zelestia doesn't
Im glad someone else has seen how great Fogado is. I remember that people used to say Fogado was bad or "he works maybe as a warrior". And I was just like, it sounds like you havent used him to me. At one point I thought Fogado was the best unit in the game flat out. Maybe Pandreo is idk, but hes close.
He is best on his default, but his growths are so bad that he requires an insane amount of investment to make him as good as many others. His caps are very high, especially in speed and magic, so he will become the best Radiant Bow user eventually... but that eventually is post game only. The big thing that hurts him is his bad dex, which gets fixed in post game.
S tier post game unit, B tier story game unit.
His lord promo has a garbage ability, but his speed lets him leverage doubling with radiant bows.
The other unit who does well with radiant bows is Anna, but she needs leveling, a seal, and some sp assistance to get the minimum speed to make it work well.
@@chaseong9560 Fogado will never double with radiant bow and his accuracy is butt. You have to be post game for Fogado to be good.
@@MasterStaconahe is only slowed by radiant bow with lyn engrave by 1 point post promotion, which also fixes his accuracy issue, I have no idea how you are not doubling with him when he joins immediately able to inherit speed+3 and around the time enemies are heavily weighed down by their weapons.
@@klodpraisor he still cannot double, does even less damage, gives one shoting fliers, and waste a hit engrave on a dedicated archer.
He is a great post game unit that is average for the story game.
hi mister coffee merry Christmas!! Tier list of chapter maps one day?
I guess most are kinda fine on the list, the only outliers for me:
Framme, she is lvl 1, it's gonna take you like 100+ heals to get her to promotion lvl, so she probably doesn't belong in Low investment. I don't think I can even get her lvl 7 with just healing + chain guard when going into C7 with lvl 10+ units joining.
Clanne, he is lvl 1 and Alfred joins lvl 5 the very next map, Clanne is never gaining +4 lvls in just 1 map with his competition Alear. Even Etie is lvl 4 the next map and is entitled most of the exp from all the fliers in that map.
Timerra, yea I don't know how you get a lvl 18/1 unit +4 lvls without doing the Lyn paralogue Grind. That's more work getting Zelkov lvl 17 out of thief class who gains more exp and also needs +4 lvls.
I want to try boucheron with a level 5 Solm donation. It would be a very high investment of course but that axe would solve his damage and he has the highest build in the game so he wouldn’t be hindered speed wise. Emblem/Skills can focus on everything else
17:40 "He is a free...dude."
That's how I'm gonna summarize Fogado from now on
Etie is an amazing Lucina user, she have an stupid amount of supports with a lot of units, as an enchanter she is amazing as she doesnt really want that much exp or anything and bennefits a lot in supporting with daggers, but i guess we cant take into account the dlc classes, overall pretty bad as you said, is just that as an enchanter is pretty good imo,
Also if you plan on using Alear as a support, he doesnt even need that much exp either, depending on who will be your early units i feel she can be used and fed a little bit and make her kinda functional, i feel she would be low end C
currently on my first maddening run of engage. i found etie and clanne to be really useful, with some minimal investment. i gave clanne a elsurge by CH6 for massive damage, and etie got a forged +3 steel bow. they were able to do REALLY WELL with just some useful weapons, and when promoted to a mage knight and bow knight, they serve as really good early game ranged damage users, along with great counters to tikis map. giving either sigurd is also a great idea, though i gave that to other units who would want the canter or momentum. though i dont know if this is 100% consistent, i think my clanne and etie have gotten really lucky with level ups.
Clanne is good on physical.
Etie better as a Warrior to get more strength.
@@PetraMacneary if you know how to work with someone who only has high strength, she will be great.
Coffee likes jacks of all trades, masters of none. If he sees any weakness, then he thinks they are bad; those characters are also not good at anything.
Assigning roles to characters will actually be a stronger army with a balance of tanks - supports - damage. This is why Louis is very underrated because he is a tank that carries with his damage output and he has a good passive too.
Tanks you want both true tanks and avoid tanks to deal with situations; only really need 1 avoid tank though to lure in enemy magic damage.
[General and Wolf Knight.
Wolf Knight also provides the -2 movement which is handy and can give Lucina ring for the dagger chain attacks to apply poison stacks for the army does even more damage (I ban Bonded Shield usage personally, it makes the game boring and too easy if you use it).
Swap on General can actually be pretty useful sometimes, there have been very cool strategic moments I have done with it to get the squishy damage to safety to kill a target.]
Supports you want someone with little to no investment, so someone like Citrinne who only needs magic is great since all the other stats are irrelevant except for dex; so she only needs thoron and can hold 4 staves for more utility options to deal with every situation.
[Mage Cannoneer, Enchanter, Martial Master, and somewhat Griffin Knight other options for support classes. Royal Knight is F tier, never run.]
Damage is those that deal the most damage, probably the highest investment characters, and naturally will get the most kills and kill exp.
@@MasterStacona i hear this a lot, and there's probably good reason for it. but clanne has pretty nice bulk, honestly. which gives him a unique role, similar to odin in fates, where he can tank a hit and hit back with decent magic. though ill probably switch him to physical in the late game if his magic is TOO unimpressive.
@@MasterStaconathis is a pretty silly point
Its a strategy game, specialists are nice, but if you have units that can do everything with little investment, then of course they're better. Less you have to put into them the better they are
Also saying they're not great at anything is just not true haha
@@limechips4289 he only has 10% magic growth, it is really bad
growths only work when you level up with them
As the Boucheron guy I can say all he requires is damage fixing and you can give him early Noatún refines which is pretty accurate and gives him damage. When he gets into Warrior he's pretty good and he's honestly one of the best early options for investment, granted he does need to promote and the early game Master Seals are highly contested.
All in all, I can see him being in the spot he is in, but personally I find him easy to get working and would probably put him at the bottom of B.
All he needs is brute force, lunar brace+, or axe power - just one of these - and he is good. If you make him an axe griffin knight then he will maintain double/quad status for the entire game against most units (except the really fast enemy units that no one can double on Maddening).
It does not take much for Boucheron to be good pre-chapter 10. Like you said, just give him a noatun, and he is very serviceable. But investing in him long term just feels like a waste.
His base stats look like they are better then they are, because he is starting in a class with high base strength. But once you are comparing units in the same class, it becomes pretty clear that he is just outclassed in every way.
If you prioritize him for exp, and you give him a master seal, and you keep focusing him down for exp to him up to internal level 15 (Warrior 7 if you promote at 10), then after the investment you get a unit who is worse then kagetsu and merrin, who join at IL 15 with no investment.
If you put them in the same class, and hand all three of them ANY weapon, no matter how heavy, Merrin and Kagetsu will both be faster then him. Because their speed difference is greater then their build difference. AND they will have a 3-5 strength lead on him. The further into the game you go, the bigger the damage difference will be as well, because his strength growth is so low at 20. They will always be stronger, and they will always be faster.
So, if you make him into a combat unit, he will be a slower AND weaker version of your speedy options, and he will be MUCH weaker then your massive strength options like Panette and Amber.
All that to say, Boucheron is not a bad unit. He is ~fine.~ But he requires mild investment to just be ~fine~ (early exp and early master seal), and then takes even more investment to actually be good (multiple stat boosters to be on par with the better units at their base) and even more investment to actually be amazing.
I would call that above average personally.
@@LAaronB10 boucheron is insanely good end game, you slap him on axe griffin at level 10 and does not need much after that point - tomahawk and well axe and you good
at level 40, merrin and kagetsu could have 2 more speed, and then would be weighed down by the same weapons as boucheron and be slower. So bouch is faster the whole game
@@MasterStacona
"at level 40, merrin and kagetsu could have 2 more speed,"
I don't know where you got your numbers from, but this is not right.
Here is all three at IL 40, Griffin Knight (assuming immediate re class into Griffin)
Boucheron. Str-20, Spd-33, Bld-14
Kagetsu. Str-28, Spd-40, Bld-10
Merrin. Str25, Spd-40, Bld - 10
Boucheron has a 4 Bld lead, but a 7 speed deficit. He is always slower.
Is is also 5/8 strength weaker.
And this is assuming he ever actually catches up to the two of them, and they are even levels. When in practice, they will likely be a couple levels higher then him all game.
Again, Boucheron is a fine unit, and is certainly usable. But he both requires more investment than, and is still outclassed by, both merrin and kagetsu.
@@LAaronB10 look at character growths
I would argue Chloe is more on the average side than on lower side, before promotion i find her strenght to be somewhat lacking and her low build means that her speed is also getting hampered by stronger weapons, i believe the fensalir weighs her down by at least 2/3 points, she's much in need of an emblem ring hower she makes up for that by being very damn solid when she gets going.
All in all i will say this list is pretty accurate tho
IMO, she requires the least amount of resources to be get going long term of any pre-10 unit. But obviously more then the prepromotes that come later.
Everything that she needs to get going is The Standard Things you should be giving to any of the early units you plan on using long term. Namely: a master seal, an emblem ring so she can gain SP, and a forged weapon so she can kill stuff right away.
Every pre-chapter 10 that, if you want to use them long term, needs all 3 of those things, except yunaka who can skip the master seal. But everyone else needs further investment to turn into solid end game units.
For the record, at base Chloe with a +3 fensalir is slowed down by 1. If you give her the sigurd ring or the sigurd engrave, she is not slowed down at all. But even with -1, she will be way faster then anyone else you have at that point.
I dont tend to use celine but one thing she has going for her is she's the only unit who can use levin sword, Thoron, AND staves. But her stats dont really back it up sadly.
Camilla fixes her up quite nicely, and thunder quads mean good odds of ignis procs.
@@chaseong9560 Camilla is DLC-locked though, that'd make Celine actually look more high investment.
Because you know... you're paying actual money 😂.
i would argue goldmary's a low investment unit by virtue of starting in hero and being two levels away from getting brave assist and having 2000 SP to inherit dual assist+. trying to make her work as a combat unit isn't really worthwhile as there are other combat units you'll want to sink EXP into but she's helpful to deploy on a map as just a utility dual assist unit once you get those two levels in
I wish the Lord/Noble characters were better .. they have interesting classes
Goldmary above average investment huh. When she just need dual assist+ and 2 levels to be a meaningful contribution. Interesting. Not necessarily saying the build is good but it’s not about build strength but how quickly you get there and honestly you might could argue she’s lower investment then fogado. You either go out of your way to forge the radiant bow or you have to wait a bit to get the chest one and then you should probably forge that and just use him for combat he’s naturally good at. You stop deploying him he will eventually stop being good. 2 small sp books and a small amount of exp to get her to 5 is what goldmary needs. And if when you get late in the game you are looking for a 14th unit cuz you got more deploy slots and are looking for someone to just throw in there and do ANYTHING useful since all the units with good combat are already deployed dual assist + heros are handy for that similar to staff units.
You could consider her lower investment as a dual assist bot. As a hard carry she is more, so I could have specified that build archetype and mentioned it is more or less free to run
I can't get anyone "online", I'm playing on an emulator on my phone. 😂😢
Depends on perspective lol. If you want Seadoll to hard carry on dancer you need...
Lucina bond lvl
Flashing fist +5
Lunar brace+
Gentility+ (8k total sp)
1 spirit dust
So his definitely the highest investment unit 😂 jk
Just use him for dancing don't do this lol.
I'm not really sure I can get behind this concept. It just doesn't play nice with the way Engage is structured.
The idea seems to be the amount of work it takes to get a unit up to parity with your team so they can contribute for the whole game.
But many units are quite frankly, not meant to be used for the whole game.
Vander is the classic example. His job is mainly tanking hits and dealing chip damage up through chapter 8 or so. And he requires 0 investment to do that.
Etie's job is killing fliers until you get Alcryst, and if you want 2 anti-flier units, she can fulfill that role effectively through chapter 10. Again, no investment required.
Celine is a good magic attacker capable of doubling nicely... until you start getting units that can double with Bolganone. Minimal investment.
I'd be interested in a "lifespan usefulness" tier list.
Roughly, how many chapters of the game will a unit be a strong option, minus the number of chapters in the game it takes to make them into a good option. Once a unit becomes a bad option, you stop counting. And of course, you'd have to weigh them (more subjectively) based on just how good/bad they are, and also some by chapter length (counting chapters 1 and 2 the same as chapter 25 would be silly.)
The lowest score would be 0. Useless when recruited. Impossible to make into a good unit.
The highest would be a unit available for the full game that is always the best character. That character gets 1 point for 30 chapters, for a total score of 30.
A character that needs to be brought along for training purposes, but is entirely dead weight for 3 chapters, then the best unit for 10 chapters, may get -1 for each of the 3 chapters, +1 for each of the 10 chapters, for a total score of 7.
A unit that is always average for 20 chapters may get 1/2 point fer each chapter, for a total of 10.
A unit that is your best unit for 8 chapters, then becomes completely useless and is benched gets 8 points. No penalty for later chapters, since you can just bring somebody else in and this unit is causing you no harm. It's kind of like just promoting into the new weakest contributor on your team worth bringing.
And of course, a unit that would be dead weight for 20 chapters, then your best unit for 10 chapters, gets a score of 0, because those 20 chapters are simply not worth the payoff.
I like the idea.
everyone always hates on Clanne but i kid you not..invest in him and make him a wolf knight and you got a even better unit then Yunaka, Merrin and Zelkov! Clanne also has high speed so just put him with Leif and you get a extra avoid boost with knives! my Clanne probably has the highest speed from all my units so hes a dodge tank
Clanne can be a fine unit. But he is not going to be better then Merrin lol
If you hyper focus clanne, and get him all the way up to IL 15 (mage 10/wolf knight 7), which is the level Merrin joins at (and it is nearly impossible to feed him this much exp by that point), he will be worse then Merrin's base stats.
+5 HP, +4 Str, +3 Mag (lol), +-0 Dex, -1 Spd, +-0 Def, +1 Res, +4 Lck, +3 Build
He has +1 Spd, but loses in every other category. And his build is low enough that he is weighed down by a silver dagger, taking away even the slight speed advantage.
And that is not going to change with time either, because merrin has equal or better growths in every category, except Strength. But Clanne stars out 4 strength behind her, and only has a 10% higher growth, meaning he would need to level up *40* more times just to catch up and tie her.
I don't want to sound mean but it feels like you haven't used the dlc units enough to give a proper analysis, my presumption is either your dislike with the dlc made you not want to bother or having to play the dlc every run was too much(the latter you can fix by creating a safefile with the dlc beaten and copying it and the former, well to each their own)
rafal to me doesn't seem like a good panette equivalent, since you have to kill someone close to him it's a lot less consistent, he is also significantly bulkier then her, I think he is the better dragonstone user as he has better strenght then nel and as such can use them much more effectively, though wyvern knight rafal also isn't bad, I feel he's more of an inbetween of panette's strenght and an armor's tankyness not being as specialized as either but dragonstones are a really good weapon due to the defense resistance halving effect meaning they do good damage even without being able to be forged and having high hit
nel feels a bit overrated, from my experience her personal class similar to veyle is better as a support class with dragonveins or something else, I'll be honest I've never used her outside of her personal class but her growths and personal skill don't really impress me that much though she might have a niche as a mage knight with obscurite since veyle is often reclassed into a non tome class like wolf knight or griffin
gregory is like a more extreme version of citrinne, that said he has his own issues as well as his own advantages, first off all unlike her he has inherent staves meaning he can access A staves on sage or more importantly B staves on griffin, he's also got some unconventional mage stats, his strenght defense hp and build are pretty decent so he might have some potential in a mixed role, his personal skill could hypothetically make him a great dodge tank but I personally don't think that's best for him, he is also a really good res tank wich while niche did allow me to have him solo the thoron mage reinforcements on the right side on chapter 21 hard mode as he actually instakilled them with his own thoron on retaliation while taking no damage though obviously that would be different on maddening still there are some niche use cases like safely approaching the meteor mage on the sigurd paralog, usually I think the main thing he needs is hit fixing through sigurd's skill, a little speed to prevent him from getting double too often can help but he usually deals around the same damage other units do while doubling so him not doubling isn't that big of a problem, now it does mean that with investment anna can be better though he can still get work done
madeline section kinda gave me the view because you really just went I heard she has bad hit and just kinda went based on vibes, now madeline had her flaws but if you invest in her she is typically around the same level as louis, it's not like the other armors have that much more hit then her, madeline's main strenghts are her very big bulk and very big strenght and her bug weakness is her hit and speed depending on what you wanna do with her(res really isn't that much of a big deal, sure if she is in range of a mage she will likely die but at that point you're literally like that really annoying stereotype some people use when being against casual mode of people just being to dumb to not put their fliers outside of an archer's range), like gregory she wants sigurd's hit + skill wich is pretty easy to get since most people recommend doing the dlc around that timeframe, I think she is better as a great knight then a general since it gives her the silver sword wich is stronger then the iron axe while having more hit wich partnered with hector can let her enemy phase really well, though that probably works better on hard then maddening, still she has really high strenght so she is probably one of the best users of brave weapons in the game, I've even heard someone put her in sniper or something and seeing success with her high strenght
zelestia is more complicated then ivy2, the big thing ivy has over zelestia is staff access(unless we count micaiah wich doesn't really go that well with zelestia's kit), that said zelestia has several things over ivy, her ivy's personal skill basically doesn't exist while zelestia's can sometimes help especially if you have units with low hit nearby or who just want that extra push to 100% so you don't miss a 90% and screw up your whole strategy, the big thing is her dex and speed, not only are her bases higher, her base growths are higher and when you ad the class bonus onto that there is a significant gap between ivy's dex speed growth and zelestia's, this basically means zelest loses staves in exchange for not having to deal with ivy's biggest problem and unlike ivy you don't need to waste lyn on her, now most of this is just from a surface glance since I've never used zelest outside of the dlc story, but a whole 7 more base speed, 45% dex growth and 65% spd growth are a pretty bug difference
overall I think the dlc units could use some more experimentation, especially from someone like you who tries many different builds from what you've said
I use all the dlc units and they're all very good.
Here I will change my DLC unit analysis in terms of investment:
All are extremely high because you need to pay for DLC then do an entire alternate side campaign to unlock them.
@@IcedCoffeeGaming unless you're able to play this on an emulator. (Which is how I'm able to play, beat the dlc, now going through the rest of the main story)
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I guess if you count time investment that is technically true, still disappointing but I guess if you dislike the dlc that much all I can do is respect that
@@IcedCoffeeGamingHe technically admitted he hated the dlc. Idk why this channel got recommended out of nowhere but lol. You suck.
23:24-23:25 how does the well give you passives?
SP books?
Predicting and betting Pandreo is 1
Etie should’ve had at least a 35 dex and 40 spd growth because her Hp, def, and build already doodoo but Intelligent Systems memes her existence
that's always the aspect of this game I disliked compared to FE3H, your gonna struggle to bring your units with you instead of being rewarded for making them mvps of the battlefield.
Stonks tierlist on who has the most stonks pls.
Goldmary has the biggest assets of the bunch.
Who is the best stonker?
For Maddening, which Alear is better, male or female? And why?
The default answer is female, because she can proc Louis and Merrin's personal skills
You could possibly build a team that would rather alear be male to proc chloe's personal. Like if you are running all/mostly female recruits.
Other then that, there is basically no difference between the two genders.
I prefer male alear purely for aesthetic (and if you have a majority female team with Chloe as mentioned) because his eyes are not uncanny and his voice lines are much better delivered.
It's bouching time
Dude... poor etie...
So what’s so good abt staves
Healing, obstruct, physic, rewarp, warp, rescue
S -
Seadall (He dances.)
Citrinne (She is the second lowest investment unit in the game.)
Gregory (Male Citrinne.)
Louis (Normal and Hard, brain dead unit. Maddening you have to know how to use him properly as the game goes on, but this unit is insanely great! Tanks and hard carries!)
Alear (you don't need to give her any exp to be useful)
Veyle (great Byleth user)
Amber (Master Seal -> Second Seal into a warrior, pretty low investment to get him going assuming your Warrior carry gets exp)
Hortensia (5 staves, no exp needed or weapon)
Lapis (Wolf Knight her with Micaiah engrave silver dagger, she becomes an insane avoid tank)
Merrin (pretty similar to Lapis, but slightly worse, minus no master or second seal required)
Rafal (this unit is so good, great passives and growths, plus is a dragon user)
Madeline (She needs hit fixing and lack of supports does not help with that.)
A -
Framme (she requires a little bit of investment, she is also becoming a carry in every run too)
Celine (pretty good initially with good growths, there are multiple classes she can become where she can pop off on)
Kagetsu (second seal into a sniper and go for crits)
Mauvier (he makes for a great Sage)
Panette (make her an axe general with Ike ring, this will work with her passive better, but she won't be a hard tank because she is lower on the defense side)
B -
Nel (She is hot. Also, she is a dragon.)
Boucheron (he gets really good if you know what class to second seal him into, he is slightly easier to get to level 10 than Anna and his growths are very worth it to pop off)
Etie (know what class to put her on, she is pretty easy to get to level 10)
Jean (if you know what class to put him on, he is pretty low investment and can really pop off. If you second seal at level 1, Archer or Axe Armour, he is very good as an axe general or sniper; or you can keep him on his base class and second seal him at level 10 into a Sage and give him 4 staves with thoron and is he very good this way too.)
Zelkov (He ~exists~.)
C -
Zelestia (need works, but not a trash version of Ivy. Still isn't that good overall though.)
Anna (she is worth it, but does require attention)
Fogado (he requires an insane investment to do well, his growths are not very good outside of speed, but if you invest heavily into him then he has the stat caps to be really good)
Chloe (harder to get going than Anna, she does no damage, a real struggle to get her to level 10 and even if you invest heavily into her she peaks at average performance. Not worth it. You are insanely bias towards Chloe.)
Clanne (He has the growths to be good, but he has a lot of investment.)
Alfred (he has the growths to be good, just needs a bit to get him going and knowing what class to put him on)
Goldmary (she is a pretty bad unit since the only thing she can do is be a physical wall, she does not have the benefit of Louis where he is a physical wall and able to one shot fools with his damage output)
Lindon (Pretty bad. Bad growths so not worth investing, decent if you need an extra unit.)
Saphir (Pretty much in a similar spot as Lindon. Also a 35 year old that looks 60.)
Jade (has pretty bad growths, can be decent)
Timerra (she is pretty high investment, she has good growths to eventually get good, but she does need quite a bit of investment)
Yunaka (she needs pretty high amount of investment)
D -
Alcryst (his class is a worse sniper and he doesn't have very good growths, so you have to do a lot to make him work)
Bunet (growths are weak)
Diamat (He is very bad.)
Ivy (This unit is bad.)
Vander -
Vander (he is Vander, trash past the very early game, very good during that time)
Rosado (He keeps dying to the dragon, I don't know what to say...)
“Chloé does no damage?” She is literally about the same strength as the other units on your team whilst being faster than all of them and having access to a Lance that she uses better than all of them.
@@goroadachi9489 What I would do for Chloe is give her a Levin Sword as a Sword Griffin Knight with 4 staves, completely ignore her physical side. Sword power if you want more damage.
This would be Chloe's best option. Magic damage dealer with stave utility.
Boucheron best is Axe Griffin Knight, naturally has way more damage because of the axes and has a higher crit rate because of his dex growth, so even more kill potential, and his passive is significantly easier to proc - just with Lucina ring being active, you have a 70% chance for +2 might with no setup.
And the Well Axe is a crit axe, so it is best on Boucheron, but you prob cap out at +3 because of the forge cost becomes steep after that- but that is +6 might, +14 might if you max it out with increased crit rate (hit rate does not increase with forge).
Lance is only good if you are a physical character that either needs more hit rate than an axe and/or want to make use of Sigurd and his ultimate. Otherwise you want swords for their accuracy and lightweight nature or axes for their might.
@@MasterStacona Well in early game she is objectively your best unit as, archers aside, she can survive most encounters and kill quite a number of the enemies. And sometimes even one round the archers, and likely just one rounds mages. Give her the Heroes Lance (which is not being competed for) and she does more damage. You could make her a griffin with 4 staves or just turn her into a Wyvern so she can use two weapons effectively and have better strength. Also Boucheron’s passive in the early game is somewhat dead, while Chloé’s is not, and towards the end game neither make much of a difference.
@@goroadachi9489 Objectively your best units are Alear, Framme, and Louis.
Alear because you have to use her and her passive.
Framme because she is your only healer.
Louis because he is an immortal wall that nukes everything he touches.
Chloe kills one mage on her opening chapter, then you have to baby and protect her all while being completely useless and unable to deal damage and unable to tank; and she gets worse as the game goes on, Boucheron scales into end game. Meanwhile, Louis is on his tower of fortitude tanking the entire enemy army solo.
This map is well designed in teaching the player though. Teaches you that Louis is an immortal wall and you should run him every time. Teaches you that Chloe sucks butt and you should never use her. Teaches you about Celica's ultimate to save Chloe's useless butt.
@@MasterStacona Oh great you mean Louis who may take forever to kill the enemies around that choke point due to his accuracy issues? Also Chloé more importantly can actually kill those Pegasus knights in that area.
who's Saline? lol
The solution we deserve
@@IcedCoffeeGaming I prefer saline dion. Soothes the soul.
You need to stop with the Clanne slander. Citrinne and Celine better than him?!? Bro is the best early game mage.
Celine=low damage and slow
Citrinne=really slow
Clanne= doubles
Idk man. Once you give him Celica with a speed tonic man be cookin
Clanne has so much potential with speed based builds, he just needs so much help fixing either his strength or his magic depending on which way you want to go. As much as I love my boy it's a big flaw he has to roll with
Clanne is not bad, but he takes a lot to fix him for maddening, he might double but it's no use if he does 3x2 damage. He needs a lot of EXP and his low magic growth means damage fixing his magic is hard. And then making him a physical unit means you train him to lvl 10 as a mage with poor str growth, promote him and reclass him, and he still needs str fixing and damage fixing bc he has terrible str bases and his class didnt help for that.
Céline is not so slow that a speed+5 or Speetaker can't make her double and on Celica she does the most damage with Warp Ragnarok early game.
Citrinne might be slow, but who needs to double when you can make her one shot or deal more than others doubling with just one hit? Also Lyn + Speed+5 just fixes her speed pretty easily specially if you promite her to Mage Knight.
So yes Clanne has a lot going against him, but he can work. Mind you on Hard or lower difficulties Clanne can do pretty good damage, but the Maddening thresholds are pretty steep.
@@sergiolink7586 all you said is correct before the well. The well is in the game almost everything can be mitigated away. You only need 24 magic with sword power 5 to be an effective mage knight at endgame. As long as you double
@@godssword6501 Yeah, the well makes things easier, but you know what also becomes easier to do? Making everyone else better too.
Again Clanne is not bad, but he still takes more than speed fixing Céline or getting Citrinne to one shotting range. Not that he's not worth it, just still harder to get going.
TImera is bottom barrel
Stop roasting Etie! Lol