In the 1858 GC p. 107 2nd para . I quote “individuals among the Jews will be converted; but as a nation they are forever forsaken of God. “ Mrs. White in vision.
@@krisellis6384 The point to be made, is God is not in the temple that Jerusalem is going to try to rebuild. Our Focus should be the heavenly sanctuary. 😉
How about a focus on simply not hating to start? The medieval arguments that screechy voice glutton was spewing , all it does is spread bitterness like the one I feel now. Instead of focusing on others. Focus on yourself. I know. I will regret But I could not stay silent. I've lived around people like him all of my life.
The only real argument is the 50:50, that the state of Israel had helped to bring light to Biblical Archeology. However, there is no connection between Today's Israel and the people of Israel in the Bible. Most of the talk is theological and does not imply the right to the land in any place. Are we ignoring Paul now when he says about the heavenly Jerusalem? So, theologically no significance, archeologically very significant. Adventists should not take sides in this fight, the people of palestine also are tidily connected to the land. Lets not forget it
The Divine Purpose in It Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:5 The Faithful Remnant At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
22:25 IMPORTANT POINT! Jesus did not put a curse on the Jews for killing him. The crowd said, "His blood is on our hands". Jesus forgave them! God wants us to respond like Jesus did, not curse the Jews for the crowd's guilt.
If anyone rejects Christ they are subjects of the curse. Gentile, Christian, Muslim or Jew. PERIOD. To escape the curse all must deny themselves and accept Christ wholeheartedly as their Saviour. That's it. No nation remains chosen while rejecting Jesus.
Cause if you look to the tree of life. The middle pillar is the one that goes to God or the Crown and you pass Christ on that same pillar as the Crown. On that middle pillar that is in the center of up and and down and left and right. The balance, it's the Christ or christ consciousness. @lisaal-shaater5433
Thanks for the open discussion. I am surprised that no reference was made to the writings of Ellen White. She has made some strong statements on this topic. For example: Looking upon the smitten Lamb of God, the Jews had cried, “His blood be on us, and on our children.” That awful cry ascended to the throne of God. That sentence, pronounced upon themselves, was written in heaven. That prayer was heard. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse. Terribly was it realized in the destruction of Jerusalem. Terribly has it been manifested in the condition of the Jewish nation for eighteen hundred years,-a branch severed from the vine, a dead, fruitless branch, to be gathered up and burned. From land to land throughout the world, from century to century, dead, dead in trespasses and sins! -DA p. 739 Let the mind be educated to look to Jesus. Let an effort be made to become doers of his word. The curse of God is upon Jerusalem and its surroundings, and the land is defiled under the inhabitants thereof. There is no real foundation for feelings of awe in looking upon the land of Palestine. In revering these earthly things, men clothe them with a false glory. R&H Feb. 25, 1896
BTGOG. I am a Apostolic Jewish believer who attends the SDA church in Boston, but who is also an active member of my local Shul. I am pleased to hear other Jewish SDA’s who share the views I’ve been teaching for the last 40 years, but which have fallen mostly on deaf ears. I am a Jewish Reader and Scholar of the New Testament. I have a masters degree in Jewish Studies from Hebrew College and would be very happy to join your team and collaborate with you. B”H
Thank you for your well organized presentation of thoughts on the matter. I'm hoping it will be seen by many. Looking forward to your next discussion. My prayers are for education, comfort and compassion. I hope this is coming, but I fear that it is not.
Shalom friends, a great topic. I believe it is not difficult to ascertain the position of Israel as an “elect of God” in Adventist theology on the context of theology covenant. However, the position of Israel as a political entity/ state within Adventist theology or even related to on a eschatological perspective seems more difficult to locate to me. Perhaps because that is not a topic central to Adventist theology - despite its validity in itself. Any insights in that direction would be great. Maranatha!
THE GREAT APOSTASY The Jews who first aroused the rage of the heathen against Jesus were not to escape unpunished. In the judgment hall, as Pilate hesitated to condemn Jesus, the infuriated Jews cried, “His blood be on us, and on our children.” The FULFILLMENT OF THIS TERRIBLE CURSE curse - which they called down upon their own heads - the JEWISH NATION HAS EXPERIENCED. The heathen and those called Christians alike have been their foes. Those professed Christians, in their zeal for Christ, whom the Jews crucified, thought that the more suffering they could bring upon them, the better would God be pleased. Many of the unbelieving Jews were therefore killed, while others were driven from place to place and were punished in almost every manner. The blood of Christ and of the disciples, whom they had put to death, was upon them, and they were VISITED WITH TERRIBLE JUDGMENTS. The CURSE OF GOD FOLLOWED THEM, and they were a byword and a derision to the heathen and to so-called Christians. They were degraded, shunned, and detested, as if the brand of Cain were upon them. Yet I saw that God had marvelously preserved this people and scattered them over the world that they might be LOOKED UPON AS SPECIALLY VISITED BY THE CURSE OF GOD. I saw that God had forsaken the Jews as a nation; but that INDIVIDUALS among them WILL YET BE CONVERTED and be enabled to tear the veil from their hearts and see that THE PROPHECY CONCERNING THEM HAS BEEN FULFILLED; they will receive Jesus as the Saviour of the world and see the great sin of their nation in rejecting and crucifying Him.
Not being a 7th Day Adventist myself, but having had enough exposure to their fundamental beliefs to know that their aim is to align with scriptural truths, and believing that they generally do, I think it can accurately be said that they correctly do not see the _State of Israel_ as the subject or object of end-times prophecies which refer to "Israel". I think the scriptural rationale for this position can be explained well enough as follows: God's definition of Israel, as of the New Testament, has been expanded and refined to mean those who accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality. Even the original branches of the Olive Tree, which was once literal, physical Israel but is now spiritual Israel, do not retain by default, simply as a virtue of their heritage, their position in the present redefinition of Israel as far as God sees it. The condition of faith in Christ must be met to allow for their re-inclusion. Any promises of God to Israel, unconditional or otherwise qualifying for fulfillment, which are as yet unfulfilled will still be kept, but only according to God's definition of Israel at the moment of their fulfillment. Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise . Romans 11:20 "...They were broken off because of unbelief , but you stand by faith...." Romans 11:23 "And if they do not persist in unbelief , they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again ."
... except hasn't Israel held the Palestinians basically as hostages (in the very small Gaza Strip) - controlling them? Seems Israel has taken over more and more territory for themselves (at least since 1948) - this seems to be a part of the modern day animosity (as opposed to the ancient fighting between Isaac and his (half-brother) Ishmael.
Hi Lynda! We will be discussing conspiracy theories about Israel in our next video which will address your question here. We will probably do that video in 1 to 2 weeks.
Conspiracy theories? Maybe you could have just said controversies? I’m trying so hard to understand all this, but a comment like that makes me feel less confident in your perspective. 😢
@@HebrewBibleInstitute I am a SDA myself, and I do love and admire the Jewish culture, and their dietary habits. I was saddened and upset by the atrocities that was committed by Hamas in October 7. I also understand their suffering since 1948. But you must condemn the brutality on the Palestinian people by Israel. We are all Gods children. I do believe that Israel has a right to exist; therefore, a 2 state solution is the way to go. No more taking of their property and separating them on 2 sides of Israel from their families. No, I don’t believe that the Jewish people are cursed. They too can, and will be saved in Gods kingdom like all of us, who accept Jesus Christ. 🙏
Are the Jews still the chosen people 🤔..the bible says .... "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be TAKEN AWAY from YOU and GIVEN to a people who will produce its fruit.." Matthew 21:43. (Jesus talking to the Pharises and telling them that they are no longer the chosen people and that the kindgom will be taken from them and given to another..Who is other? The Gentiles and those Jews who accept jesus as the Messiah and spread the gospel that Jesus taught) Matthew 21:43 Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be TAKEN AWAY from you and GIVEN to a PEOPLE who will produce its fruit
"Let's discuss the biblical reasons as to why we should support Israel" There's not one biblical reason. Quite the opposite. Jesus clearly taught us the opposite. These are not the days of Israel anymore. Jesus said, "Live by the sword, die by the sword". He also directed his followers to not fight, but to "flee to the mountains". He also did not condemn the harlot women under the Mosaic law, but saved her from it. Jesus clearly teaches the new covenant strategy. For example, were the Jews given the commission to go out into the world and preach the gospel to all peoples and to separate? Nope, but we were. Therefor what is sin to not follow as Christians, was not sin for the Jews to not follow before Christ and vice versa. In the same way the Jews werent sinning when putting people to death for sin and fighting wars under the direction of God. That was a different period in earths history, a different strategy and covenant. They were following Gods current purpose. The earth was hardly populated and nations were truly independent back then. So when God had them slaughter an entire heathen peoples, it served a purpose because had that society been allowed to grow, perhaps we would have never got to year 2,000. For anyone to support the killing of any peoples in these global wars we knows Rome is behind, you are sinning. To promote the raising of the sword instead of Christ example of non-violence and complete faith in God, youre sinning. So please tell me, why is a Jew pretending to be a Christian SDA? And as of the bible isnt enough, EGW alone wrote very much on this topic and condemns this Jewish woman.
the whole nation was forfeiting His blessing and bringing ruin upon itself. ELLEN G WHITE I can't watch this this is ridiculous BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS GUYS THIS IS REAL - I KNOW PEOPLE ON ALL SIDES THERE this is serious is the church FASTING WE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR PEACE
Super important. I have been sharing about replacement theology on my insta. Unfortunately many sda people hold these ideas and don’t understand the new covenant.
What were Jews chosen to do when God chose them? They were chosen to spread the truth of the ONE God to all the nations and bring the unity to ALL NATIONS under Yahweh, Eloheimm... but sadly when Jesus came they rejected the messiah and his teachings preferred to continue the exclusionary group mindset failing to bring the nations(Gentiles) into unity under one God thus loosing their chosen status. Only Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah remain in a chosen status because they would've continue in the WAY Jesus taught...Jesus a Jew taught the Jews the WAY and they rejected it, and thus are spiritually trapped in time.. whereas those who follow Jesus jew or gentile they are moving in the WAY
God's definition of Israel, as of the New Testament, has been expanded and refined to mean those who accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality. Even the original branches of the Olive Tree, which was once literal, physical Israel but is now spiritual Israel, do not retain by default, simply as a virtue of their heritage, their position in the present redefinition of Israel as far as God sees it. The condition of faith in Christ must be met to allow for their re-inclusion. Any promises of God to Israel, unconditional or otherwise qualifying for fulfillment, which are as yet unfulfilled will still be kept, but only according to God's definition of Israel at the moment of their fulfillment. Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise . Romans 11:20 "...They were broken off because of unbelief , but you stand by faith...." Romans 11:23 "And if they do not persist in unbelief , they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again ."
Thanks. Great discussion . In my view he synagogue, the mosque, the church---are all for those called submit to the One. That includes every human. I appreciate the Shema and the Fatiha and the Sermon on the Mount on the way to the Judgment and Last Day... Without semites --the semitic gifts--we'd be worshipping Celtic, Chinese, Dravidian, etc., and Norse gods...not Agapé in the flesh and the community of those. called to the walk of the 7th and the Torah. Disgustingly the Shema and the deep embedding of the Torah in the New Testament was not taught ime in my life in Adventist schools. That needs to change. I was given as a child no understanding to the Qur'an either, a loss. For me as a Seventhy-day Adventist I believe can learn from Muslim, Jew, Christian, and have some things to share, too. My brother spent many years in Japan. We can learn of G*d in Buddhism, too. Our is Tikkun on a grand basis., a healing message to the world, breaking bread together with all humans. Our focus on religious liberty is vital, too. Wthout that we cannot testify. The Qur'an does not see the Torah and the Gospels as irrelevant. We owe debts to all kinds of folks and can break bread together. Thanks so much for the conversation. I am greatly blessed by Jewish materials I find on RUclips as well as from Muslims on our common humanity and the need to submit. I liked what was said about the Jews in Medieval times...Why in the world would they want to become "Christians". In my view modern state of Israel is not that "umma" of those who submit to the One and follow Torah and the call to =the One seen in the Qur'an. So I've said maybe too much, but I'm a 5th generation member of this community with all its positives and negatives. My world has gotten bigger. than a narrow "fundamentalist" view. so many have. .Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim.....we all have a call to the One. The Messiah as rabbi and our brother on the walk is vital. to me. The eastern Christians/Jews/nascent Muslims in the Arabian peninsula had some important things to say., too. Take it easy. Let's keep separation of religion and state in front of us as vital in a time when "Christian Nationalists" in the USA have their objectives.
Adventist's especially need a lot more humility. I know a prominent Adventist pastor who describes the formation of the state of Israel and the current war as a misinterpretation of prophecy which is completely lacking in empathy and sympathy. I mean, people expect that the Jews should just go back to where they were living before WWII? I mean, they tried, but most of the Jews who returned to Poland were shot and thrown into mass graves after the war. So they are supposed to go back to the villages, towns, cities, and countries that gave them up to the Nazis to go to the gas chambers and live there again and pretend like nothing happened? Even most of the Israelis don't support their right-wing governments and want a two-state solution.
I think you guys need new friends! 😂 Pretty much every SDA I know (myself included) considers Jews as our spiritual parents and has a great deal of respect-even intrigue-towards the Jews, as well as supporting the modern nation of Israel. I’ve never heard anyone espouse the kind of replacement theology you’re talking about. But from my understanding of Scripture and SOP, it seems pretty clear that the Jews rejected the Messiah and lost their special position as oracles of God’s lessons to the world moving forward. EGW makes it clear that the Jews suffered terrible consequences for calling Christ’s blood upon themselves and their children. This in NO WAY justifies the horrors of the holocaust or any other atrocities they have experienced, nor does it warrant any disrespect from us today. But if “support Israel” means we need to recognize Israel as having the same blessing and responsibility they had throughout the Biblical era, I’m not finding these arguments convincing.
Thanks for saying this. This is exactly what I wanted to say. You started it so clearly. I don’t know any Adventist who have these ideas they are starting here. In fact I was so excited to find this channel…the Jewish people are family. But the Jewish nation today has no significant role in the end time scenario. They like every one else have to choose Jesus individually.
The Divine Purpose in It Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:5 The Faithful Remnant At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
I am very interested in this discussion - I recently returned to Israel (and Palestine) on tour... I really think this discussion would have been more balanced, and would have added more credibility, had there been some non-Jews on the panel.
Hi Lynda! Thanks for your feedback. We asked several non-Jews to join us and many of them wanted to, but they were tied up with previous commitments. We didn't want to wait any longer to produce this content, so we went ahead. I am curious how you feel the theology in the video would have been more balanced if a non-Jew was present? We did not discuss anything in these videos pertaining to Iran verses Israel. This is purely a theological video.
@@HebrewBibleInstitute Maybe if there was an opposite side to the discussion, or a center of the road point of view, that could outline their beliefs and articulate their evidence supporting the viewpoints . I think there is room for discussion for even a neutral stance on the significance of Judaism and Israel in Adventist/Christian theology. I do appreciate the acknowledging the history, however in present times I do not think it has to tie allegiances because of the historical ties unless it is specifically codified in the bible. If there are pro/con/neutral viewpoints for support, then various viewpoints should be discussed, rather than someone saying "they believe this" and potentially putting words in the mouths of others.
The Divine Purpose in It Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:5 The Faithful Remnant At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
We should not be stressing ethnicity here. Let's stick to the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Based on what we are told, the Jews, as a nation, have been rejected. God is no respecter of persons. What we know that the Christian religion is an exclusive religion. When the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, this was God's message to them that they had rejected God, in the form of his Son, and then the gospel message, preached by the disciples. The Jews were too exclusive. Our parent is God, not Abraham. Too much manmade theory and not trying to understand the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. God was not finished with the Jews as individuals, but as a nation, yes, they are no longer his people. No nation in the current dispensation can truly claim the status of God's chosen. We are saved as individuals, not as a church or nation.
According to the eleventh chapter of Romans, towards the time of the end, many "Jews" will accept Jesus. Note that Paul ilustrates Israel by the symbol of the olive tree. Gentile converts get grafted in and Jews who accept Jesus will be grafted back in. Then, "All Israel will be saved": but note that Paul defines "all Israel" as believers in Jesus, both the natural branches restored and gentiles converted - not everyone who descends from Abraham via Isaac. Read what else Paul says about gentiles who accept Jesus in some of his other epistle.
A story from the book of 1 Kings, where a prophet by the name of Elijah when he beheld 400 false prophets of the false object of worship called Baal said to them if you think you're God to be the answer then assemble yourselves and call me fire down from heaven; Elijah said to them likewise shall I do the same as the story goes the 400 false prophets of the false being made themselves a bunch of ruckus calling out to the lie they believed. Elijah surely used scripture from the word of God the Old Testament or Old Covenant or Agreement and fire did fall from heaven. The more you get right about God the more he shows up. God is a spirit those that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth. John 4:24 Don't just have faith, have faith in God, and his word. There is surely a type of extreme unpleasantness already in the Earth, have you seen it, are you delivered from it? Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?" Job 38:33 "33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?" As a child, I would have dreams in be in many nightmares where underground tentacle monsters could sense my slightest movement and impel me, wars, dreams of persecution, the grim Reaper, things would get wild. I remember calling on the Old Testament name of God Jehovah, and I remember things did not end well for me when I was being assaulted by a witch. However, ever since I was a child the name of Jesus has never failed me, when I began to call on his name Even recently, a spider demon with a human face around the size a 42" TV was crawling on my wall when I awoke from my sleep. I spoke the name of Jesus quite a few times and I attained Mercy unto myself, for that because Jesus has the authority for this reason. John 3:35 " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." 1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." I believe that God cares for his creation and doesn't want to lose them, because I believed in Jesus and had the humility to honor his name many times throughout my life. I attained mercy through the New Covenant, agreement, or Testament. Only parts of the old still apply. The old prepared place for the New. I believe Love is many things, and is doing many things read 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (KJV) and study the langauge of the time (Middle English) and do for yourself an order of operations properly like you would use in Algebra. A few things I believe Love does it when you matter greatly it is a kindness(: an act to preserve and help you), that never lies to you. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." John 1:14 "And the Word:λόγος(in ancient Greek) message, expression of God's ideas), was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." For if I read James 1:5 (KJV), do not leave out James 1:6,7, and 8 (KJV), and while we at it live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. If there are 18000+ religions in the world I know to whom I say go to save me trouble, the name and the ideas that I will confess as Lord to be serving of and to call my friend. Proverbs 4:19 “The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.” A concept of the word is the idea that is behind it or what should pop into your head by what the author is meaning. If you do not have the idea of the word correct you have a misconception and it changes the whole story. Read the KJV, pray for wisdom, pray without ceasing: don't go a day without it.
Interesting 🧐 it’s not what Adventist teaching. People of Israel can come to Jesus and accept him as the Lord like anyone else. The remnants church is the real Israel. Jesus is coming for the one who keeps the commandments and hold the testimony. You don’t need to look at the current political Israel as a holy nation and they are not our spiritual parents. Holy spirit is the spiritual parent and lead anyone to salvation. As long as Israel did not identify Jesus as the Lord and the messiah there is no hope.
Gala3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The early church were CHRISTIANS not Jews. Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Excellent discussion! Great points. We need to study more on this topic. Unfortunately, Adventists pick and chose verses that support replacement theology.
People, listen to yourselves, you say you don’t believe replacement theology but then talk of Israel losing God’s covenant. That is what we are trying to teach against! Look at Joshua vs Achan. Paul vs Judas. All Israelites and yet some choose God others forsake Him. Let’s get away from lumping whole nations into one path or another!
But that’s exactly the point, Israel was chosen as a national of priest to carry the oracle of God to the nations, to reconcile them back to God, they failed as a nation, but individual Jews who understood the mission were successful thus the mission went to the gentiles. Individual Jews will be save if they accept Christ like everyone else, but they will not be save as a nation with special privileges.
But to say the nation failed and now we are the spiritual Israel is exactly what we need to move away from and recognize that it was the Jews who gave us the scriptures, we are grafted into the Olive root of God of their beliefs. Yes some of them rejected the Olive tree but our forefathers adopted us into the Way. Paul, Peter etc were all Jewish believers. Just as the Seventh day Adventist church is not the remnant, the people who will stand at the end will be composed of sheep of many folds God will bring into one faith, one baptism, one salvation. But the Adventist pillars just as the Israel faith is what we need to present in our teachings. But having the Israelite label didn't save or condemn the whole nation as the Adventist doctrines do not condemn or save members. Every person will have a personal account to their Maker. @@niaukatu8737
The Divine Purpose in It 1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:5 The Faithful Remnant At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377 6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. 7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded 8(according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. 9And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, And a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, And bow down their back alway. 11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? 13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14if by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. 15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? 16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
@@bridge.across.storm. the Jewish people will be save once they accept Christ. No one gets to heaven but by accepting Christ righteousness. That’s the theme throughout scripture. Instead of lying to these people that God loves so much that they have some special clearance other than Christ to make to heaven we should be praying for them and preaching the truth to them. The Jewish people prophetic mission ended with the rejection and death of Christ. God still loves them, and they as individuals still have access to heaven through the person of Christ.
The Divine Purpose in It Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, 3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. 4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. 5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 11:5 The Faithful Remnant At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
In the 1858 GC p. 107 2nd para . I quote “individuals among the Jews will be converted; but as a nation they are forever forsaken of God. “ Mrs. White in vision.
Well that is basic com.mon sense...that goes for all demoninations..that was in the bible a long time before E.G. white was born...
@@krisellis6384 The point to be made, is God is not in the temple that Jerusalem is going to try to rebuild. Our Focus should be the heavenly sanctuary. 😉
How about a focus on simply not hating to start? The medieval arguments that screechy voice glutton was spewing , all it does is spread bitterness like the one I feel now. Instead of focusing on others. Focus on yourself. I know. I will regret But I could not stay silent. I've lived around people like him all of my life.
The only real argument is the 50:50, that the state of Israel had helped to bring light to Biblical Archeology. However, there is no connection between Today's Israel and the people of Israel in the Bible. Most of the talk is theological and does not imply the right to the land in any place. Are we ignoring Paul now when he says about the heavenly Jerusalem? So, theologically no significance, archeologically very significant. Adventists should not take sides in this fight, the people of palestine also are tidily connected to the land. Lets not forget it
The Divine Purpose in It
Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
11:5 The Faithful Remnant
At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
God rejected the nation of Israel but not as individual. Not all of Israel are Israelites. But whoever accepts christ are Abraham's seeds
WRONG. God did NOT reject Israel as a nation. He still chose them as a nation.
The spiritual Israel are those who have the faith of Abraham.
22:25 IMPORTANT POINT! Jesus did not put a curse on the Jews for killing him. The crowd said, "His blood is on our hands". Jesus forgave them! God wants us to respond like Jesus did, not curse the Jews for the crowd's guilt.
If anyone rejects Christ they are subjects of the curse. Gentile, Christian, Muslim or Jew. PERIOD.
To escape the curse all must deny themselves and accept Christ wholeheartedly as their Saviour. That's it.
No nation remains chosen while rejecting Jesus.
No Abrahamic religion denys the importance of Jesus.
But how is the "through Christ" philosophy good for the world.. it's a ride "cop out clause"
No such thing as a curse in religion. Many clever Jews became too proud as if they are selves.
All Monotheists have a special place with God.
The truest scripture is evidently the Qur'an.
You are entitled to your opinion but that's your opinion
Cause if you look to the tree of life. The middle pillar is the one that goes to God or the Crown and you pass Christ on that same pillar as the Crown. On that middle pillar that is in the center of up and and down and left and right. The balance, it's the Christ or christ consciousness. @lisaal-shaater5433
Thank you all so much for watching! What did you think of our discussion today? :)
Thanks for the open discussion. I am surprised that no reference was made to the writings of Ellen White. She has made some strong statements on this topic. For example:
Looking upon the smitten Lamb of God, the Jews had cried, “His blood be on us, and on our children.” That awful cry ascended to the throne of God. That sentence, pronounced upon themselves, was written in heaven. That prayer was heard. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse.
Terribly was it realized in the destruction of Jerusalem. Terribly has it been manifested in the condition of the Jewish nation for eighteen hundred years,-a branch severed from the vine, a dead, fruitless branch, to be gathered up and burned. From land to land throughout the world, from century to century, dead, dead in trespasses and sins! -DA p. 739
Let the mind be educated to look to Jesus. Let an effort be made to become doers of his word. The curse of God is upon Jerusalem and its surroundings, and the land is defiled under the inhabitants thereof. There is no real foundation for feelings of awe in looking upon the land of Palestine. In revering these earthly things, men clothe them with a false glory. R&H Feb. 25, 1896
BTGOG. I am a Apostolic Jewish believer who attends the SDA church in Boston, but who is also an active member of my local Shul. I am pleased to hear other Jewish SDA’s who share the views I’ve been teaching for the last 40 years, but which have fallen mostly on deaf ears. I am a Jewish Reader and Scholar of the New Testament. I have a masters degree in Jewish Studies from Hebrew College and would be very happy to join your team and collaborate with you. B”H
I think they could use you. Baruch Hashem! David BenChayim Christensen
Thank you for your well organized presentation of thoughts on the matter. I'm hoping it will be seen by many. Looking forward to your next discussion.
My prayers are for education, comfort and compassion. I hope this is coming, but I fear that it is not.
Shalom friends, a great topic. I believe it is not difficult to ascertain the position of Israel as an “elect of God” in Adventist theology on the context of theology covenant. However, the position of Israel as a political entity/ state within Adventist theology or even related to on a eschatological perspective seems more difficult to locate to me. Perhaps because that is not a topic central to Adventist theology - despite its validity in itself. Any insights in that direction would be great. Maranatha!
THE GREAT APOSTASY
The Jews who first aroused the rage of the heathen against Jesus were not to escape unpunished. In the judgment hall, as Pilate hesitated to condemn Jesus, the infuriated Jews cried, “His blood be on us, and on our children.” The FULFILLMENT OF THIS TERRIBLE CURSE curse - which they called down upon their own heads - the JEWISH NATION HAS EXPERIENCED. The heathen and those called Christians alike have been their foes. Those professed Christians, in their zeal for Christ, whom the Jews crucified, thought that the more suffering they could bring upon them, the better would God be pleased. Many of the unbelieving Jews were therefore killed, while others were driven from place to place and were punished in almost every manner.
The blood of Christ and of the disciples, whom they had put to death, was upon them, and they were VISITED WITH TERRIBLE JUDGMENTS. The CURSE OF GOD FOLLOWED THEM, and they were a byword and a derision to the heathen and to so-called Christians. They were degraded, shunned, and detested, as if the brand of Cain were upon them.
Yet I saw that God had marvelously preserved this people and scattered them over the world that they might be LOOKED UPON AS SPECIALLY VISITED BY THE CURSE OF GOD. I saw that God had forsaken the Jews as a nation; but that INDIVIDUALS among them WILL YET BE CONVERTED and be enabled to tear the veil from their hearts and see that THE PROPHECY CONCERNING THEM HAS BEEN FULFILLED; they will receive Jesus as the Saviour of the world and see the great sin of their nation in rejecting and crucifying Him.
Not being a 7th Day Adventist myself, but having had enough exposure to their fundamental beliefs to know that their aim is to align with scriptural truths, and believing that they generally do, I think it can accurately be said that they correctly do not see the _State of Israel_ as the subject or object of end-times prophecies which refer to "Israel". I think the scriptural rationale for this position can be explained well enough as follows:
God's definition of Israel, as of the New Testament, has been expanded and refined to mean those who accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality. Even the original branches of the Olive Tree, which was once literal, physical Israel but is now spiritual Israel, do not retain by default, simply as a virtue of their heritage, their position in the present redefinition of Israel as far as God sees it. The condition of faith in Christ must be met to allow for their re-inclusion. Any promises of God to Israel, unconditional or otherwise qualifying for fulfillment, which are as yet unfulfilled will still be kept, but only according to God's definition of Israel at the moment of their fulfillment.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise .
Romans 11:20 "...They were broken off because of unbelief , but you stand by faith...."
Romans 11:23 "And if they do not persist in unbelief , they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again ."
Very interesting and enlightening. I have been taught about spiritual Isreal. But I am adopted.
... except hasn't Israel held the Palestinians basically as hostages (in the very small Gaza Strip) - controlling them?
Seems Israel has taken over more and more territory for themselves (at least since 1948) - this seems to be a part of the modern day animosity (as opposed to the ancient fighting between Isaac and his (half-brother) Ishmael.
Hi Lynda! We will be discussing conspiracy theories about Israel in our next video which will address your question here. We will probably do that video in 1 to 2 weeks.
Conspiracy theories? Maybe you could have just said controversies? I’m trying so hard to understand all this, but a comment like that makes me feel less confident in your perspective. 😢
Hi @@AlinaTowers, thanks for your engagement. If you tune into our next video, you'll know what we mean by conspiracy theories. ;)
@@HebrewBibleInstitute
I am a SDA myself, and I do love and admire the Jewish culture, and their dietary habits. I was saddened and upset by the atrocities that was committed by Hamas in October 7.
I also understand their suffering since 1948.
But you must condemn the brutality on the Palestinian people by Israel. We are all Gods children.
I do believe that Israel has a right to exist; therefore, a 2 state solution is the way to go.
No more taking of their property and separating them on 2 sides of Israel from their families.
No, I don’t believe that the Jewish people are cursed. They too can, and will be saved in Gods kingdom like all of us, who accept Jesus Christ. 🙏
Ironically, they get more territory after they are attacked by those who want to destroy them.
Can you tell me what Daniel 9: 24 -26 mean pls..
Are the Jews still the chosen people 🤔..the bible says .... "Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be TAKEN AWAY from YOU and GIVEN to a people who will produce its fruit.." Matthew 21:43. (Jesus talking to the Pharises and telling them that they are no longer the chosen people and that the kindgom will be taken from them and given to another..Who is other? The Gentiles and those Jews who accept jesus as the Messiah and spread the gospel that Jesus taught)
Matthew 21:43
Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be TAKEN AWAY from you and GIVEN to a PEOPLE who will produce its fruit
"Let's discuss the biblical reasons as to why we should support Israel"
There's not one biblical reason. Quite the opposite. Jesus clearly taught us the opposite. These are not the days of Israel anymore. Jesus said, "Live by the sword, die by the sword". He also directed his followers to not fight, but to "flee to the mountains". He also did not condemn the harlot women under the Mosaic law, but saved her from it. Jesus clearly teaches the new covenant strategy.
For example, were the Jews given the commission to go out into the world and preach the gospel to all peoples and to separate? Nope, but we were. Therefor what is sin to not follow as Christians, was not sin for the Jews to not follow before Christ and vice versa. In the same way the Jews werent sinning when putting people to death for sin and fighting wars under the direction of God. That was a different period in earths history, a different strategy and covenant. They were following Gods current purpose. The earth was hardly populated and nations were truly independent back then. So when God had them slaughter an entire heathen peoples, it served a purpose because had that society been allowed to grow, perhaps we would have never got to year 2,000.
For anyone to support the killing of any peoples in these global wars we knows Rome is behind, you are sinning. To promote the raising of the sword instead of Christ example of non-violence and complete faith in God, youre sinning.
So please tell me, why is a Jew pretending to be a Christian SDA? And as of the bible isnt enough, EGW alone wrote very much on this topic and condemns this Jewish woman.
Matthew 21:43-46, the kingdom of God shall be taken from this generation and given to a nation bringing forth fruit.
the whole nation was forfeiting His blessing and bringing ruin upon itself.
ELLEN G WHITE
I can't watch this
this is ridiculous
BLESSED ARE THE PEACE MAKERS
GUYS THIS IS REAL - I KNOW PEOPLE ON ALL SIDES THERE
this is serious
is the church FASTING WE SHOULD BE PUSHING FOR PEACE
Super important. I have been sharing about replacement theology on my insta. Unfortunately many sda people hold these ideas and don’t understand the new covenant.
What were Jews chosen to do when God chose them? They were chosen to spread the truth of the ONE God to all the nations and bring the unity to ALL NATIONS under Yahweh, Eloheimm... but sadly when Jesus came they rejected the messiah and his teachings preferred to continue the exclusionary group mindset failing to bring the nations(Gentiles) into unity under one God thus loosing their chosen status. Only Jews who accept Jesus as the Messiah remain in a chosen status because they would've continue in the WAY Jesus taught...Jesus a Jew taught the Jews the WAY and they rejected it, and thus are spiritually trapped in time.. whereas those who follow Jesus jew or gentile they are moving in the WAY
God's definition of Israel, as of the New Testament, has been expanded and refined to mean those who accept Jesus Christ as Messiah, regardless of their ethnicity or nationality. Even the original branches of the Olive Tree, which was once literal, physical Israel but is now spiritual Israel, do not retain by default, simply as a virtue of their heritage, their position in the present redefinition of Israel as far as God sees it. The condition of faith in Christ must be met to allow for their re-inclusion. Any promises of God to Israel, unconditional or otherwise qualifying for fulfillment, which are as yet unfulfilled will still be kept, but only according to God's definition of Israel at the moment of their fulfillment.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek , there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise .
Romans 11:20 "...They were broken off because of unbelief , but you stand by faith...."
Romans 11:23 "And if they do not persist in unbelief , they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again ."
Who were the people who shouted crucify him
They belonged to the same people who first shared the gospel message. It's not either or.
I nailed HIM there with my sins
Thanks. Great discussion . In my view he synagogue, the mosque, the church---are all for those called submit to the One. That includes every human.
I appreciate the Shema and the Fatiha and the Sermon on the Mount on the way to the Judgment and Last Day... Without semites --the semitic gifts--we'd be worshipping Celtic, Chinese, Dravidian, etc., and Norse gods...not Agapé in the flesh and the community of those. called to the walk of the 7th and the Torah.
Disgustingly the Shema and the deep embedding of the Torah in the New Testament was not taught ime in my life in Adventist schools. That needs to change. I was given as a child no understanding to the Qur'an either, a loss.
For me as a Seventhy-day Adventist I believe can learn from Muslim, Jew, Christian, and have some things to share, too. My brother spent many years in Japan. We can learn of G*d in Buddhism, too.
Our is Tikkun on a grand basis., a healing message to the world, breaking bread together with all humans.
Our focus on religious liberty is vital, too. Wthout that we cannot testify. The Qur'an does not see the Torah and the Gospels as irrelevant. We owe debts to all kinds of folks and can break bread together. Thanks so much for the conversation. I am greatly blessed by Jewish materials I find on RUclips as well as from Muslims on our common humanity and the need to submit. I liked what was said about the Jews in Medieval times...Why in the world would they want to become "Christians". In my view modern state of Israel is not that "umma" of those who submit to the One and follow Torah and the call to =the One seen in the Qur'an.
So I've said maybe too much, but I'm a 5th generation member of this community with all its positives and negatives. My world has gotten bigger. than a narrow "fundamentalist" view. so many have. .Whether Jew, Christian, Muslim.....we all have a call to the One. The Messiah as rabbi and our brother on the walk is vital. to me. The eastern Christians/Jews/nascent Muslims in the Arabian peninsula had some important things to say., too.
Take it easy. Let's keep separation of religion and state in front of us as vital in a time when "Christian Nationalists" in the USA have their objectives.
Adventist's especially need a lot more humility. I know a prominent Adventist pastor who describes the formation of the state of Israel and the current war as a misinterpretation of prophecy which is completely lacking in empathy and sympathy. I mean, people expect that the Jews should just go back to where they were living before WWII? I mean, they tried, but most of the Jews who returned to Poland were shot and thrown into mass graves after the war. So they are supposed to go back to the villages, towns, cities, and countries that gave them up to the Nazis to go to the gas chambers and live there again and pretend like nothing happened? Even most of the Israelis don't support their right-wing governments and want a two-state solution.
I m a sda church, God has never rejected Israeli people ...
Love the metaphor about parents, they hold the sabbath etc.
I think you guys need new friends! 😂 Pretty much every SDA I know (myself included) considers Jews as our spiritual parents and has a great deal of respect-even intrigue-towards the Jews, as well as supporting the modern nation of Israel. I’ve never heard anyone espouse the kind of replacement theology you’re talking about. But from my understanding of Scripture and SOP, it seems pretty clear that the Jews rejected the Messiah and lost their special position as oracles of God’s lessons to the world moving forward. EGW makes it clear that the Jews suffered terrible consequences for calling Christ’s blood upon themselves and their children. This in NO WAY justifies the horrors of the holocaust or any other atrocities they have experienced, nor does it warrant any disrespect from us today. But if “support Israel” means we need to recognize Israel as having the same blessing and responsibility they had throughout the Biblical era, I’m not finding these arguments convincing.
Thanks for saying this. This is exactly what I wanted to say. You started it so clearly. I don’t know any Adventist who have these ideas they are starting here. In fact I was so excited to find this channel…the Jewish people are family. But the Jewish nation today has no significant role in the end time scenario. They like every one else have to choose Jesus individually.
The Divine Purpose in It
Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
11:5 The Faithful Remnant
At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
I am very interested in this discussion - I recently returned to Israel (and Palestine) on tour... I really think this discussion would have been more balanced, and would have added more credibility, had there been some non-Jews on the panel.
Hi Lynda! Thanks for your feedback. We asked several non-Jews to join us and many of them wanted to, but they were tied up with previous commitments. We didn't want to wait any longer to produce this content, so we went ahead. I am curious how you feel the theology in the video would have been more balanced if a non-Jew was present? We did not discuss anything in these videos pertaining to Iran verses Israel. This is purely a theological video.
@@HebrewBibleInstitute Maybe if there was an opposite side to the discussion, or a center of the road point of view, that could outline their beliefs and articulate their evidence supporting the viewpoints . I think there is room for discussion for even a neutral stance on the significance of Judaism and Israel in Adventist/Christian theology. I do appreciate the acknowledging the history, however in present times I do not think it has to tie allegiances because of the historical ties unless it is specifically codified in the bible. If there are pro/con/neutral viewpoints for support, then various viewpoints should be discussed, rather than someone saying "they believe this" and potentially putting words in the mouths of others.
The Divine Purpose in It
Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
11:5 The Faithful Remnant
At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
We should not be stressing ethnicity here. Let's stick to the Bible and the Spirit of Prophecy. Based on what we are told, the Jews, as a nation, have been rejected. God is no respecter of persons. What we know that the Christian religion is an exclusive religion. When the Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, this was God's message to them that they had rejected God, in the form of his Son, and then the gospel message, preached by the disciples. The Jews were too exclusive. Our parent is God, not Abraham. Too much manmade theory and not trying to understand the Bible and Spirit of Prophecy. God was not finished with the Jews as individuals, but as a nation, yes, they are no longer his people. No nation in the current dispensation can truly claim the status of God's chosen. We are saved as individuals, not as a church or nation.
I meant to have said that the Christian religion is an inclusive religion.
According to the eleventh chapter of Romans, towards the time of the end, many "Jews" will accept Jesus. Note that Paul ilustrates Israel by the symbol of the olive tree. Gentile converts get grafted in and Jews who accept Jesus will be grafted back in. Then, "All Israel will be saved": but note that Paul defines "all Israel" as believers in Jesus, both the natural branches restored and gentiles converted - not everyone who descends from Abraham via Isaac. Read what else Paul says about gentiles who accept Jesus in some of his other epistle.
A story from the book of 1 Kings, where a prophet by the name of Elijah when he beheld 400 false prophets of the false object of worship called Baal said to them if you think you're God to be the answer then assemble yourselves and call me fire down from heaven; Elijah said to them likewise shall I do the same as the story goes the 400 false prophets of the false being made themselves a bunch of ruckus calling out to the lie they believed.
Elijah surely used scripture from the word of God the Old Testament or Old Covenant or Agreement and fire did fall from heaven.
The more you get right about God the more he shows up.
God is a spirit those that worship him must do so in spirit and in truth. John 4:24
Don't just have faith, have faith in God, and his word. There is surely a type of extreme unpleasantness already in the Earth, have you seen it, are you delivered from it?
Job 38:17 "Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?"
Job 38:33 "33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?"
As a child, I would have dreams in be in many nightmares where underground tentacle monsters could sense my slightest movement and impel me,
wars, dreams of persecution, the grim Reaper, things would get wild. I remember calling on the Old Testament name of God Jehovah, and I remember things
did not end well for me when I was being assaulted by a witch. However, ever since I was a child the name of Jesus has never failed me, when I began to call on his name
Even recently, a spider demon with a human face around the size a 42" TV was crawling on my wall when I awoke from my sleep.
I spoke the name of Jesus quite a few times and I attained Mercy unto myself, for that because Jesus has the authority for this reason.
John 3:35 " He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."
1 John 2:23 "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also."
I believe that God cares for his creation and doesn't want to lose them, because I believed in Jesus and had the humility to honor his name many times throughout my life.
I attained mercy through the New Covenant, agreement, or Testament. Only parts of the old still apply. The old prepared place for the New.
I believe Love is many things, and is doing many things read 1 Corinthians 13:4-8 (KJV) and study the langauge of the time (Middle English) and do for yourself an order of operations properly like you would use in Algebra. A few things I believe Love does it when you matter greatly it is a kindness(: an act to preserve and help you), that never lies to you.
John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
John 1:14 "And the Word:λόγος(in ancient Greek) message, expression of God's ideas), was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
For if I read James 1:5 (KJV), do not leave out James 1:6,7, and 8 (KJV),
and while we at it live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
If there are 18000+ religions in the world I know to whom I say go to save me trouble, the name and the ideas that I will confess as Lord to be serving of and to call my friend.
Proverbs 4:19 “The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble.”
A concept of the word is the idea that is behind it or what should pop into your head by what the author is meaning. If you do not have the idea of the word correct you have a misconception and it changes the whole story.
Read the KJV, pray for wisdom, pray without ceasing: don't go a day without it.
Israel state of today is not israel of the bible people😂 its israel of sat.n
Interesting 🧐 it’s not what Adventist teaching. People of Israel can come to Jesus and accept him as the Lord like anyone else. The remnants church is the real Israel. Jesus is coming for the one who keeps the commandments and hold the testimony. You don’t need to look at the current political Israel as a holy nation and they are not our spiritual parents. Holy spirit is the spiritual parent and lead anyone to salvation. As long as Israel did not identify Jesus as the Lord and the messiah there is no hope.
The spiritual Israel are those who have the faith of Abraham.
The Adventist church is modern Israel and fast falling in their footsteps
Gala3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
The Jews did not start Christianity..CONSTANTENE did..The Messiah YAHUSHA was NOT a Christian..do your homework....
The early church were CHRISTIANS not Jews.
Galatians 3: 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Excellent discussion! Great points. We need to study more on this topic. Unfortunately, Adventists pick and chose verses that support replacement theology.
People, listen to yourselves, you say you don’t believe replacement theology but then talk of Israel losing God’s covenant. That is what we are trying to teach against! Look at Joshua vs Achan. Paul vs Judas. All Israelites and yet some choose God others forsake Him. Let’s get away from lumping whole nations into one path or another!
But that’s exactly the point, Israel was chosen as a national of priest to carry the oracle of God to the nations, to reconcile them back to God, they failed as a nation, but individual Jews who understood the mission were successful thus the mission went to the gentiles. Individual Jews will be save if they accept Christ like everyone else, but they will not be save as a nation with special privileges.
But to say the nation failed and now we are the spiritual Israel is exactly what we need to move away from and recognize that it was the Jews who gave us the scriptures, we are grafted into the Olive root of God of their beliefs. Yes some of them rejected the Olive tree but our forefathers adopted us into the Way. Paul, Peter etc were all Jewish believers. Just as the Seventh day Adventist church is not the remnant, the people who will stand at the end will be composed of sheep of many folds God will bring into one faith, one baptism, one salvation. But the Adventist pillars just as the Israel faith is what we need to present in our teachings. But having the Israelite label didn't save or condemn the whole nation as the Adventist doctrines do not condemn or save members. Every person will have a personal account to their Maker. @@niaukatu8737
The Divine Purpose in It
1I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
11:5 The Faithful Remnant
At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
6And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8(according as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9And David saith,
Let their table be made a snare, and a trap,
And a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see,
And bow down their back alway.
11I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14if by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
@@bridge.across.storm. the Jewish people will be save once they accept Christ. No one gets to heaven but by accepting Christ righteousness. That’s the theme throughout scripture. Instead of lying to these people that God loves so much that they have some special clearance other than Christ to make to heaven we should be praying for them and preaching the truth to them. The Jewish people prophetic mission ended with the rejection and death of Christ. God still loves them, and they as individuals still have access to heaven through the person of Christ.
Wat n klomp team praat is dit ¿
The Divine Purpose in It
Rom 11: 1. I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
4But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
5Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
11:5 The Faithful Remnant
At the time of the Saviour’s advent there were faithful men and women who had received with gladness the message of John the Baptist, and had thus been led to study anew the prophecies concerning the Messiah. When the early Christian church was founded, it was composed of these faithful Jews who recognized Jesus of Nazareth as the one for whose advent they had been longing. It is to this remnant that Paul refers. AA 377
These people are talking shit.
Anyone can be saved with or without the knowledge of Christ. We can be saved by our own individual righteousness (Ezekiel 14.14, 20).
We blame the Roman catholic sect for their blemish in Christianity.