Who is measuring proper time and proper length?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- If two observers are travelling at a high relative speed to each other, they will measure different times and lengths. The effect is described in special relativity as time dilation and length contraction. But who is measuring the dilated, longer, time, and who is measuring the proper time? Similarly, who is measuring the contracted, the shorter length, and who is measuring the proper length? The goal of this video is to help you figure it out.
Thanks a lot mate and to Bob
Bob and I are happy that the video is helpful
My notes are now written in terms of Bob. Very simple straightforward explanation, thank you!
Bob is going to be famous ;-)
@@StefanBracher Relativity is just an optical illusion, and because all of modern physics is based on Relativity, modern physics is fundamentally wrong and needs to be rethought. Relativity has a simple built in logical fallacy, and no theory based on a logical fallacy can be true, no matter how many experiments seem to prove it, or how many people say it is true. Below is a very simple logical argument highlighting the logical fallacy, using the same terminology Einstein used to derive Relativity.
According to Relativity, observers on a moving train and on a stationary train platform will disagree on the size of the ""Train"" and the passage of time on the ""Train"". This is a complete logical contradiction if the size and the passage of time of the train are real. If the size of the train is real, then the ""Train"" can not be both contracted and not contracted. The same goes for the observed passage of time on the ""Train"". If these effects are observed, then the only possible conclusion is that it is an optical illusion. Things that are real must appear to be same from all frames of reference. If not, then by definition it is an illusion.
Again the argument is very simple and it is the argument Einstein used to derive Relativity, and no acceleration is used in the argument. A train with length (L) traveling at constant velocity (v) relative a stationary observer on a station platform. According to Relativity, the stationary observer will see the train contracted (L/r, where r is the Relativistic gamma), whereas an observer on the train will see it not contracted (L). So the train is both contracted (L/r) and not contracted (L) depending on the observer. This is a complete contradiction (L not equal L/r) and can not be true if length is real. The same argument applies to passage of time on the Train, where both observers will disagree on the passage of time. If time is real, it can not be both dilated and not dilated (T not equal rT). If space and time are observed to be both large and small simultaneously for one inertial reference frame, such as the ""Train"", then it must be an optical illusion.
This argument is only the tip of the iceberg. There is much more evidence including both theoretical and experimental, so please keep reading. Hi my name is Dr William Walker and I am a PhD physicist and have been investigating this topic for 30 years. It has been known since the late 1700s by Simone LaPlace that nearfield Gravity is instantaneous by analyzing the stability of the orbits of the planets about the sun. This is actually predicted by General Relativity by analyzing the propagating fields generated by an oscillating mass. In addition, General Relativity predicts that in the farfield Gravity propagates at the speed of light. The farfield speed of gravity was recently confirmed by LIGO.
Recently it has been shown that light behaves in the same way by using Maxwell's equations to analyze the propagating fields generated my an oscillating charge. For more information search: William Walker Superluminal. This was experimentally confirmed by measuring radio waves propagating between 2 antennas and separating the antennas from the nearfield to the farfield, which occurs about 1 wavelength from the source. This behavior of gravity and light occurs not only for the phase and group speed, but also the information speed. This instantaneous nature of light and gravity near the source has been kept from the public and is not commonly known. The reason is that it shows that both Special Relativity and General Relativity are wrong! It can be easily shown that Instantaneous nearfield light yields Galilean Relativity and farfield light yields Einstein Relativity. This is because in the nearfield, gamma=1since c= infinity, and in the farfield, gamma= the Relativistic gamma since c= farfield speed of light. Since time and space are real, they can not depend on the frequency of light used. This is because c=wavelength x frequency, and 1 wavelength = c/frequency defines the nearfield from the farfield. Consequently Relativity is an optical illusion. Objects moving near the speed of light appear to contract in length and time appears to slow down, but it is just what you see using farfield light. Using nearfield light you will see that the object has not contracted and time has not changed. For more information: Search William Walker Relativity.
Since General Relativity is based on Special Relativity, General Relativity must also be an optical illusion. Spacetime is flat and gravity must be a propagating field. Researchers have shown that in the weak field limit, which is what we only observe, General Relativity reduces to Gravitoelectromagnetism, which shows gravity can be modeled as 4 Maxwell equations similar in form to those for electromagnetic fields, yielding Electric and Magnetic components of gravity. This theory explains all gravitational effects as well as the instantaneous nearfield and speed of light farfield propagating fields. So gravity is a propagating field that can finally be quantized enabling the unification of gravity and quantum mechanics.
The current interpretation of quantum mechanics makes no sense, involving particles that are not real until measured, and in a fuzzy superposition of states. On the other hand, the Pilot Wave interpretation of Quantum Mechanics makes makes much more sense, which says particles are always real with real positions and velocities. The particles also interact with an energetic quantum field that permeates all of space, forming a pilot wave that guides the particle. This simpler deterministic explanation explains all known quantum phenomena. The only problem is that the Pilot Wave is known to interact instantaneously with all other particles, and this is completely incompatible with Relativity, but is compatible with Galilean Relativity. But because of the evidence presented here, this is no longer a problem, and elevates the Pilot Interpretation to our best explanation of Quantum Mechanics.
*RUclips presentation of above argument:
ruclips.net/video/sePdJ7vSQvQ/видео.html
*Paper it is based on: William D. Walker and Dag Stranneby, A New Interpretation of Relativity, 2023: vixra.org/abs/2309.0145
Stefan you are a king mate
thank you bob
Taking my final and this is such an easy way to understand. Thanks!
Glad Bob helped
fantastic video thanks for explaining
Very helpful and clear. Thank you!
Glad it helped.
Beautiful, beautiful explanation!
Thanks
i didnt get it
thanks help me to figure out how to mesure the proper time and proper length
So essentially someone can travel at any proper velocity he / she wants right?
For example I can travel to the Andromeda galaxy 2.5 million light years away by having an insane proper velocity millions of times faster than c which doesn't brake relativity because when I eventually do arrive there, I will also be millions and millions and millions of years into the future...
Because even though I was "frozen" in time for all those millions of years of my travel, I only experienced 1 minute of those (because of my insane proper velocity) so if I devide my dx which is going to be not the distance that I measured (which is going to be contracted by a huge factor) but the "true" 2.5 mly distance over my proper time, which was just 1 minute, I will have a huge proper velocity many times faster than light actually 2.5 mly/minute fast!
That's crazy fast, but still like I said doesn't make Einstein mad, cuz I will also arrive there at the year who knows... 2.500.000 AD or something!
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You will drive Einstein (at least the special relativity Einstein) mad because the whole theory of special relativity was built around the weird observation that nothing travels faster than the speed of light.
The speed of light speed limit is not a consequence of special relativity, but an observation made prior to the development of the theory.
If you do want to get there "faster" you will need to do something to space-time, like warping it.
I assume you got to your "insane" velocity by dividing the time of one reference frame over distance in the other... you can't do that. Time and distance need to be in the same frame of reference.
Dude thank you so much🔥🔥❤️
glad you liked it
well explained thank you.
Thanks
Very Helpful Video
good to know it helped
That was great!
thanks
omg, thank you 🥺 Now I understand
you are welcome
No , proper length is determined only for a particular frame of reference, which is arbitrarily chosen.
Bob sees his length as proper because he is not moving relative to himself, even if he is spinning.
Proper length is measured by all inertial reference frames in which the two points between which the distance is measured do not move relatively to the frame of reference.
When you say that proper time is when the object is stationary in your ref frame, does that mean that the object can still be traveling a certain speed if you are traveling the same speed as well?
If I wanted to record an event that is going 0.5c and I am traveling 0.5c as well in the same direction, then would I be timing the proper time since in my reference frame, there is no change in speed between me and the event?
Proper time is measured in the reference frame in which the event occurs at the same location. So if you are travelling at 0.5c and the event (the two events between which you measure the time) happen at the same location relative to you (for example a timer on your wristwatch), then you have proper time. (Starting the timer and the timer beeping happens at the same location for you... But for someone traveling in another direction, the watch would have moved location between event one: timer started, and event two: timer beeps)
@@StefanBracher, two events cannot be determined as simultaneous, so one cannot say they are in the same frame if moving relatively.
@@geronimomiles312 Relativity of simultaneity is another aspect of special Relativity not covered in this video. It means that two observers will not agree if events are simultaneous or not - just like they do not agree on length and time.
To determine proper time between two events, you need the events to happen at the same location, not at the same time.
the problem is bob is so cute I can't focus....use matchbox next time
haha... yeah... was thinking of a train first... but trains get abused quite a bit in this context
@@StefanBracher lol..but you helped me a lot......thanks
this helped thanks.
glad it helped
How about no rest frame. Two objects only in empty space?
If the relative velocity is constant and none of the two is accelerating, then It's the same thing. (Simply consider the object you are on as the "rest frame"...)
@@StefanBracher You mean the other can claim to be at rest frame and I am moving?
Oh wait which one am I?
We are both time dilated and length contracted....?
That is weird.
Motion is relative. The faster you go the slower the other clock ticks. Oh wait, the lower your clock ticks. No the other clock ... oh wait, what did I just say...what did he say...?
What a circus.
@@alchemy1 who is at rest is relative (as long as there is no acceleration)... Everything is relative...except the speed of light, which always stays the same no matter who is observing it.
@@StefanBracher What kind of acceleration you are speaking of?
Proper or coordinate? Coordinate acceeration is pseudo and there are many examples of it.
Proper acceleration reduces to coordinate in flat spacetime (i.e. absence of gravity) It does not warp spacetime which is observer independent.
In the absence of gravity where coordinate system is non-inertial but is accelerated with the observer then g-force that is experience by mechanical force is called fictitious force which is inertial force called weight which appear in all accelerated coordinate system. And it mimicks weight produced by force of gravity.
@@alchemy1 if you want to use special relativity, you can't have either of those. (Also, you and the objects can't be in a gravity field that distorts space-time). In those cases, you will have to "upgrade" to general relativity which is beyond the scope of this video.
You said Dialated Time, I heard Delayed Time ⁉️😕😵🤔
I am using the zame akkzent as Einstein ;-)
Hi Stefan, sorry but rulers and time doesn't change with motion. Why would you think it could? Oh, yes, you probably were naive enough to believe Einsteins nonsense.
It is not a question of believing Einstein or not. His model of special relativity is better than Galilean relativity in predicting the weird observations when there is a high relative motion between the observer and what is being observed (the observed effects are not Einstein's "inventions" they are repeatable observations that predated Einstein). Of course there are even better models that also work if the relative velocity is not constant.
What model do you prefer?
@@StefanBracher Sorry, it is quite clear Relativity is an optical illusion. See my post at the top.
You are NOT clear at all.
First of all, you don't give definitions.
Secondly, you seem to be confused and unsure.
Sorry I failed to help you with this video... The definitions of proper time and proper length are only mentioned (and displayed on screen) shortly as the goal of the video is to figure out who measures which one.
If you happen to find a video with focus on clear definitions, please come back here and post the link, as it might be helpful to others learning about special relativity.
@@StefanBracher thanks for your kind reply.