Mine just arrived, works perfectly! The pony looks nothing like yours. The screw is fully tightened and the wheels are free rolling. Most impressed with the model.
"Oh, my giddy aunt." I had to look that one up. Turns out it was said quite a bit on "Top Gear". I had never heard it before, or if I did, I didn't understand the words.
good to see a higher frequency of TT releases recently! It'll really help keep the scale alive in the long run. We can only hope that they continue to release TT gauge models in the future.
I'm guessing production is getting back to something like normal after all the Covid shutdowns in China. I believe they had shortages of some materials too.
Great to see you reviewing more TT, Sam. I'm very enthusiastic about it. Steam isn't really my jam but the diesels I've had so far, despite a few teething issues with some of them, have really impressed me. Shame about the rear pony truck issue. Hopefully other people will be more lucky.
As Bachmann attacks on OO9 (and soon, on NG7), Hornby goes all out on TT. Nice idea, and it seems Hornby does everything to make TT last, that's a good thing overall, and I am more and more inclined to think they will succeed. They do everything to get it, anyway : 1/120 scale, so no mismatch between gauge and engine scale, all recent DCC sockets (Next 18 everywhere, as far as I know), same for couplers (the model standardized by Tillig). So, if they don't go full Heljan, they are on the right track. This one is a jewel, period. I'm glad they have such a fine model in their offer; despite some drawbacks.
I have this exact model from the IO scale range. I got it in 2020 during the Hornsby Centenery Range, the weight and box artwork completely blew me away. Fantastic Review Sam, keep up the good work, kind regards, Dan
Just arrived in the UK and there it is...a review from Sam waiting for me! My son and I are visiting a model train shop in Tooting Bec and I'm gonna buy something...good... I've seen on this channel, just because! 🤗
Hi Sam, I just wanted to give you a update on my GER P43 project. I've just finished rebuilding the cab of the locomotive, and now I'll be measuring it to fit on a hornby caledonian single chassis. I'll keep you updated. Cheers Jasper & Willow
That certainly is a good looking model. May I just say for the first time in memory I don’t quite agree with the outcome of the review. I don’t see how the no.1 loco in this scale this year can have a design that means it doesn’t work properly. Yes, you correctly say it doesn’t derail going forward and only occasionally in reverse, but you also correctly point out it should not have made it to the public like this anyway! Only my opinion of course, me with zero reviews and you with….well…..quite a few 😂 Best
What an elegant locomotive. As a GWR modeller I still find this class so impressive and they exude power and presence. Nice quality model with great fidelity at a reasonable price.
The new TT LMS Princess Coronation Pacific from Hornby is a nice model. It is the 1st model to have a die cast boiler and an easy access to the dcc socket in the tender Sam. It is a shame that the rear trailing wheels base keeper plate will not let the wheels turn properly because the base plate will lock them into place which is not normal at all. Still, it is a pretty good model. By the way Sam, do you plan to review the more modern Hornby Princess Coronation pacific without the streamlined casing.
Great review, great loco! I've never liked those fixed rear pony trucks with flangeless wheels on Hornby's OO models - shame they're now using them on TT. This toy-like solution is odd when the manufacturer strives for realism in most other aspects.
How much movement do you think there was on the real locomotives? The frames were fixed and the Cartazzi axle (LNER) had sideways play only. The LMS Pacifics had rear pony trucks but then again the movement was minimal and constrained within the rear frames. If we want these models to go around 3rd radius curves and still look realistic this is the only solution. This is before you add ejector/injector pipework. I have an old OO gauge A4 "Seagull" and to my eyes it is the all too obvious rear pony truck swinging out around bends that is the "toy" solution.
@@jamesgilbart2672We agree! Hornby supplies flanged wheels for those who prefer that solution for display or for very large radius curves. The practicalities dictate the "floating" wheel" as one solution for 3rd radius curves and perhaps even 2nd radius curves as some insist. It does look odd to have a static wheel, but so does an articulated rear pony truck sticking out from under the cab sides on bends. Modelling sometimes requires compromise and it can be down to personal opinion - and manufacturing costs - as to what is acceptable. It was bad luck that Sam's Duchess had an assembly fault. I am still waiting for my TXS Duchess but I have checked my Blink Bonny and that is perfectly set up with minimal but adequate clearance. When the 4-6-0 models are (hopefully) developed this problem will disappear. 😎
What an amazing looking duchess. I’d be happy with that detail in OO but to have it in TT is awesome. Pity the obvious fault made it into production. Yeah lighting and speaker would be nice but that would drive the price up I guess . Great review Sam
About time theres some non-LNER steam in Hornbys TT range. Really should have been released at launch. Hopefully theres some GWR and Southern steam coming soon.
What a beautiful model Sam, especially in this colour. It wouldn't be H without some weird quality issue somewhere would it hahah. Very fair review and a good well done once again. Cheerio.
Great video. It looks beautiful and the temptation to buy one is big. Besides the pony issue I notice d something else. The main piston rod isv wobbly. Instead of siding straight in and out. It shifts down as it pulls out then straightens going back in. It works well. However I expect a little more. Thanks for the review.
Hi Sam. I'm still waiting for my Duchess to arrive (from TMC); it is the sound-fitted version (who would have thought that sound slows down a model [LOL]). I understand your frustration(?) about the lack of a flywheel, but I have seen models a flywheel no better than the Duchess. An alternative to loosening the pony truck screw may be to add a thin washer beneath it (with possibly exchanging the countersunk screw with round- or cheese-head screw - Yes, I know it shouldn't be necessary on a brand-new model). I just hope my model has fewer issues!
I got a Bachmann Tornado, Hornby Mallard and a Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart Victory. All with sprung buffers, but I still don't know why that's so important. What does it matter? You never use them as in real life.
Hi Sam, great video as always. I'm not planning on converting from OO to TT but this is certainly a fantastic model! At 9:14 when you say that they were the most powerful steam locomotive ever used in Great Britain, I must disagree there. You quoted the tractive effort to back this up but the Peppercorn A2, Gresley P2, LNER U1, the original Kings, and many others had higher tractive efforts. Tractive effort isn't a great measure of power though, and whilst it is true that the hightest *recorded* peak power output on a British railway was a Coronation, the highest sustained power output to be recorded was on an A2. I think it very likely that the P2s smashed the Coronations in terms of power output. Anyway, just wanted to say that. Have a good evening :)
Hi Sam , Good video, as always. It's great stuff. For me, the rear pony has to be a factory fault - they messed up the slots that allow compensation on the rear pony and bodged it with not fitting the screw properly....Hornby have designed way to many of these floating rear pony's in both TT and 00. It's so obviously wrong in reverse that the designers would have seen it in preproduction....just a guess... but we'll never really know. I would send it back for a replacement , (well after I removed the rear pony just to check, nothing obviously preventing the bogie from lifting correctly).
Yeah I think so - it's a bad design - the pony needs some springing too! I have been able to fix the issue by fitting the plate upside down - it's not ideal as the axle still drops lower than it should, but at least that way you can tighten the screw! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, a nice “non permanent “ alternative to hold a screw from loosening is to use nail polish. Clarinet and saxophone players often use it to keep the fine adjustment screws where they want it. It’s very easy to remove the screw deliberately but it will hold it and prevent the screw from loosening on its own
On the basis of your review I purchased this loco, hoping to put the dreaded issues with the A1/3/4 motor issues behind me, as has 5 pole motor instead of 3 pole motor, fist thing to say was very impressed with the model and looks better in real life, and my bunny wheels was tight not loose, which was a concern you had, so thought happy days, linked to ipad app ready to run in, but as soon as set speed to 50 it was incredibly slow, matches speed of scotsman 17, was very upset I had this issues straight out of the box. returned to Hornby so they could check it out. I asked them to send a direct replacement as it was brand new out of box and should not have any issues, not company policy tech. team said, they said there Chinese manufature does not have as stringent QC checking as in UK, and Hornby then batch check 3 out of twelve in a box (25%), so could not guarantee, even if sent a new one it would be correct. This as is seems is just Russian roulette, Come on Hornby this is unacceptable to all TT 120 customers, feel Hornby are relying on customer good grace to put up with there issues and penalise customers. Sorry for the rant but can you contact Hornby and get some answers on there QC issues and customer treatment. Keep up the good work Sam, are others sick of these issues and should we have to put up with clearly faulty goods and there longevity as we put a lot of time, effort and money into the train hobby..
Got quite a few of these in OO including the Streamlined version which is Duchess of Hamilton, as for Duchess of Atholl I do have that one myself but it’s the old hornby dublo one converted to 2 rail, going by when it would originally have been released it has to be the oldest model locomotive I have in my whole collection.
I would argue that's why they've done it the first one released model was just pre war. Bearing in mind that mine is around 1948, the modelling was awesome then.
The Princess Coronation is one of my favorite classes from Britain, so you can say that I am a sucker for a good Coronation (I have 3 in OO). This isn't just a good one, it is a great one.
It’s a good locomotive, love the colour. I am torn between TT and N. As I am stumbling, N still has my vote as there is more choice. But if southern appears, it might be a win. Good video though. 🎉
If only you could experience building a Brassmasters Coronation Sam. Few other models shout high quality and weight like those! Now if only Hornby decided instead to make their new line 0 gauge, or H0 gauge, they would have been able to do even more! Thanks as always.
@@SamsTrains its the opposite problem! XD They're still testing and refining the kit, the best part being that all the difficult parts are cast in resin, so only minimal soldering/gluing skills are necessary! They do have a Princess Royal. You can read about the test builders progress by looking up Brassmasters Dutchess. BTW, the paint is nigh on perfect on the diecast parts on the Hornby model. It takes so much extra effort to make a perfect looking LMS/Midland Crimson, that I personally cannot believe or take fault with Hornby's excellent colour choice and application, which is something that I never thought I'd end up saying!
Hi Sam, thanks for the review. Regarding the rear pony, would it help to put a very thin washer under the plate where the screw is to raise the plate slightly, so you can tighten the screw and ease the pressure on the axle? Regards Barry.
Sam. There are 3 of these in preservation. The City of Birmingham still exists as a museum exhibit in original condition. The three in preservation have had guage modifications carried out while the City of Birmingham is all original. When Boris Johnson was London Mayor he wanted to buy it, and put it back into steam as the City of London. Birmingham refused to sell. When they were taken out of steam, all of the Cities were offered to the city they were named after. Birmingham was the only city to take up the offer.
When did Johnson want to do this, I don’t recall this about City of Birmingham*? Seems odd as there was also Duchess of Hamilton and Duchess of Sutherland. * I know enthusiasts for decades have wanted it restored to working order rather than being mothballed now at Thinktank.
It would have been interesting to see what the slots the pony wheels are in look like, is there a moulding defect or just some flashing that wasn't cleaned up. Seem to me the wheels should sit a bit deeper in the slots so as that screw can be fully tightened plus allow the drivers to sit on the track fully.
I have now checked that - there's nothing obviously wrong. But yeah, the tolerances seem to be out... the fit is perfect with no allowance for any clearance. It's improvable by fitting the keeper plate upside down, which still allows too much vertical movement in the axle, but at least allows you to tighten the screw, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sorry Sam but you just said that they were built with Streamlining. Not all were and if you don't believe me look in your hand. Atholl was built without streamlining from the factory. You can also tell that because she is LMS without it, no smoke deflectors and no slope on the front by the chimney.
Thankyou Sam for another great review. I'm starting to become more optimistic for the survival of Hornby's TT scale. I would like to see some Great Western engines and rolling stock. On another subject, have you reviewed the Bachmann Class 40. It's in your book of stats as coming 6th but I can't find the review. Cheers!
It would be interesting to hear from you about the viability of this scale now. In some of your videos you have been critical of Hornby introducing TT120.
I think my criticisms still stand - there's still not enough in the scale for it to attract serious modellers in my opinion, but it's good to see Hornby sticking with it - this will change if they continue to develop the range! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A quick fix without sending the loco back would be fitting a pony axle with a slightly smaller wheel diameter, if available or if a lathe is on hand,-) Quite sure the loco will pull much more then. I wonder why they did not make the pony swing in the first place. Anyway, congratulations to Hornby for continuing the TT range!
The rear wheels of LNER and most of the LMS Pacifics were hidden between fixed outer frames. Older models made the frames and in some cases even parts of the firebox swing, but this means gaps where there shouldn't be any. Making it all fixed looks better on the straight and arguably no worse on tight curves, but mechanically it isn't ideal.
Hi there, Not really related to this video but I watched your video on Triang Super 4 track. At last, somebody other than me knows about the correct sleeper spacing and brown too! If only a manufacturer would make a modern equivalent! I still think it is good and robust track. I would just politely put you right on one thing though. You say it is stainless steel but stainless steel doesn't go rusty! This is ordinary steel. With kind regards from Zoë.
Mine arrived from Hornby a week or so ago. Got it out to run this weekend... and the gears on one side were bent out of shape and causing the wheels to lock up... Waiting on their customer service to get back to me. Gutted because it is a gorgeous loco for TT and having to wait longer before I can run my own is a pain.
Ahh such a pity - so that's another issue preventing one of these from working properly.... really hope they get in touch with you to fix this soon! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Again, and as always: QC problems. And this is just general with ALL made in china products. Their planes fall out of the sky but all is covered up immediately !
There is a prefitted speaker..... Its under the tender PCB. Another youtuber discovered it when fitting sound to one. Its also confirmed to be a 5 pole motor by Hornby. I don't have one to test of my own as I'm waiting on the BR ones but other reviews clearly show both of those being features. The reason the trailing truck is also 'loose' is its fully replaceable for a tyred version if you have curves that allow for it.
Goodness sake - yes you're quite right! Should have known not to trust the instructions -they're incorrect then. Yes the rear wheels are replaceable, but that's no reason for the screw to need to be loose! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Glad we're getting a lot of stuff in TT However we some more stuff in the range . How about Hornby give us some LNER coaches for the LNER engines we have I also think some DMUs would be cool my pics are the class 101 and the class 143 I also think TT peckets could sell well Terriers and 4 /6 wheels coaches can also be nice
the main thing for me is the wheel flanges aren't so coarse as they are on the A1/A4. not sure if this is how future models will be or if the size of the wheels on this loco made it a necessity
I couldn't decide between this and the Class 50. With that pony truck, I think the Class 50 is the better bet! However, this is a great looking loco. If you didn't know, you could quite believe it was OO! Thanks for uploading.
It's tricky - the class 50 was less problematic on the track, but this looks the best... the 50 is a good call though! Yes the detail is very close to OO this time! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam. Beautiful looking model. So frustrating the basic engineering of the fake pony truck lets it down. I might consider cutting a deeper axle slot in the chassis for the rear pony. That way it rides higher and clear of the track, allowing the rear driving wheels to fully contact the track. I wish Hornby produced Pacific’s with proper pony trucks. I’ve read they consider their alternative design of a fake flange-less simpler for people to place the model on the track. Why not just do it in prototypical fashion?
Because the prototypes did not have to negotiate the equivalent of 3rd radius curves. A flanged wheel-set is included for anyone who wishes to display the model. All it needed was a screw tightening.
Well it needed more than that; fully tightening the screw stopped it rotating. The worst part was the fact when it was off the track the rear drivers were on the track; means the rear pony axle is sat too low; hence cut the axle slot deeper. Simple.
Come on Sam, get a grip, our favourite source of information tells me that the Coronation Class's tractive effort was 40,000 ft lbs, that of the P2s 43,500. Maybe you need to qualify your statement, possibly/probably the most powerful Pacifics. The most powerful locomotive to run on on UK rails was the LNER U1, 60,000 ft lbs, a Garret machine I admit
It's a shame that locos chosen aren't ones that are in preservation since they would appeal to modellers of layouts which are original period correct and also of modern preservation lines (which I am surprised are not more popular since there is so much more potential flexibility/licence in what and how you run on one) Bit odd that there's an era 5 J50 on the Hornby site marked "unavailable" rather than in stock or available to pre-order - wonder why that is?
I kept looking at it and looking at it thinking something is wrong. Then I spotted it. Weren't the Coronation class, after their streamlining was removed, fitted with smoke deflectors?
Yes they did have deflectors, but the 1944 batch was built without them I believe... then, because of smoke issues, the deflectors were soon added, Thanks for watching, Sam :)
TT is one scale that i have not bought into, i am waiting to see if there are further releases at more sensible prices. I still think that at the current retailer prices they are just too high and close to what i feel is reasonable for 00 scale Still good to see an LMS Loco instead of the LNER ones that are of no interest to me.
Narrow gauge Meter or 3ft can be done with 12mm track, some old IOM steam railway kits have used this gauge and European meter gauge Hom also. I have some Rhb / MOB models that goes on HOM track and some dual gauge track that's Standard and Meter .
Regarding the loose pony truck screw, would one or more KaDee fiber washers fit between the plastic cover plate and the chassis and still allow the screw to pass through? Maybe that would allow the screw to be tightened without locking the axle.
Can you please try some Canadian, Japanese, or German locos Sam? Sorry if I’m bothering you but I won’t stop commenting this until I get a response at least.
I much prefer gloss as the real locomotives are like that you can see your reflection in them, they are not satin they are not matt apart from the smokebox.
I agree! I love the gloss finish, I just got a hornby mallard in nrm exclusive gloss finish and it is wayyyy better than the matte/satin finish that hornby usually uses - I did a couple of videos on it, if you want to see what it looks like:)
Heres a question, why is it that a lot of British models don't have moving rear truck or pony truck? They did on the real models, but I've noticed that the majority of models dont
They used to until about 2005 when Hornby redesigned a number of models to replace the ones that were still using tooling from the 80's. The idea is that by having a floating axle the detail around the cab area can be greatly improved without having to worry about wheelbase length or sideways clearances, especially on things like the A4s which had Cartazzi axles in real life and not pony trucks as depicted in model form.
Original locos with Cartazzi trucks did not pivot like a pony. The axles moved very slightly in the axle boxes sideways and self-centred utilising wedges. It's totally impossible to model that in a small scale hence various other methods found on models.
I don't see why they could not have designed the rear pony truck to move especially as TT120 is accurate in terms of track gauge and scale. I am impressed though with what I'm seeing in this new scale.
Ive just bought the Hornby Eastener. Sorry but i found the 120 size fiddly to set up. Im 76 so thats probaby why. Im going to stick to my 00 and 0 gauge. Much easier to use.
Those rear Cortazzi wheels are a pain. My Blink Bonny arrived as a 4-6-0, i.e. with the wheels missing, and in all scales they run poorly and don't help the riding of the loco.
It's a very tough thing to get right - they've got to be just at the right height otherwise it doesn't work... on this example it was wrong! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Is the round buffers on the tender and oval buffers on the locomotive correct? Just wondering because I swear Ive seen a picture of the tender with oval buffers but I may be mistaken
This model looks great. Shame about that rear pony. Unfortunately, you got a lot of the history wrong... Most of the design was by Tom Coleman of Derby Works, as Stanier was in India. The streamlining was in response to the LNER's A4s, built to hug the locos because they were so big and barely fit the loading gauge, but was found to be as effective as other forms of streamlining. It was the GWR's "streamlining" that had little to no effect. 24 were built with streamlining (batches 1 (5), 2 (5) , 4 (10), and 5 (4)), 9 were built without streamlining or deflectors (batches 3 (5) and 6 (4)), 3 were built unstreamlined with deflectors (batch 7 (3)), and the final 2 were a modified design by Ivatt (batch 8). 6234 (the last of batch 3) was the first to gain the double chimney as a modification, with batch 4 onwards being built with them (hence the need for deflectors), and the rest being modified with them. Only the first 5 locos, outshopped in the blue and silver, had matching coaches (the 3 Coronation Scot 9-car rakes). The rest ran with standard LMS stock, and I'd imagine the 5 blue locos weren't always on the Coronation Scot (and the Coronation Scot didn't always have a blue loco on it). The reason for not doing the streamlined versions here will be because they'd need a completely new body, which is a lot of time and money when Hornby are trying to churn these out as fast as possible. I eventually ran in my class 50 today, and it runs very well. A bit slow at 50%, but the top speed is absolutely fine. And she sounds great too. The mk2Fs run well as well, no issues with them. Are you going to review the mk3s and the mk2Fs?
Thanks a lot for the info! I was under the impression that Stanier knew the streamlining was largely pointless, but did it to make a statement. Yeah the 50 is fantastic - really like that! I've got more models in other scales that need attention now, so the coaches will wait - but hopefully I'll cover those at some point! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, I think you will find that it does have a pre fitted speaker.... Set inside a very good sound chamber. Speaks volumes that after all your probing and prodding that you didn't research the model enough to know that. Otherwise not a bad review.
I missed the speaker due to the instructions being wrong - the diagram shows the speaker in a different location, and says there’s space for one, not that one was fitted. See the video description for more info.
Honestly this engine looks pretty good and I’m glad that it’s working properly but that whole decision to make the pony truck part of the chassis mold is not acceptable in my opinion. There’s no benefit for doing it and honestly it doesn’t look as good as one that actually moves like it’s supposed to
I could only DREAM to afford an all-new Hornby diecast locomotive. 😅 Though, I am thinking of picking up a similar Tri-ang Princess at some point, one of my dream models... 🤔
That's right - at the very least it should be sprung... as it is, if you have any inclines, the rear drivers will lift off the track and the loco will loose a lot of it's traction! Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Mine just arrived, works perfectly! The pony looks nothing like yours. The screw is fully tightened and the wheels are free rolling. Most impressed with the model.
"Oh, my giddy aunt." I had to look that one up. Turns out it was said quite a bit on "Top Gear". I had never heard it before, or if I did, I didn't understand the words.
My memory of that phrase comes from rewatching Doctor Who episodes from the 60s. Patrick Troughton's 2nd Doctor said that a lot.
It's quite a well known expression here, if a little old fashioned.
My gramp used to say it all the time.
I never knew Sam was in Top gear.
good to see a higher frequency of TT releases recently! It'll really help keep the scale alive in the long run. We can only hope that they continue to release TT gauge models in the future.
I think so too - this one was back to back with the 50!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I'm guessing production is getting back to something like normal after all the Covid shutdowns in China. I believe they had shortages of some materials too.
There is a speaker under the PCB. Another RUclipsr spotted it even though the instructions give the impression there isn’t one
Came looking to see if someone else had made this comment! It’s a plus on features and a minus on Instructions!
Great to see you reviewing more TT, Sam. I'm very enthusiastic about it. Steam isn't really my jam but the diesels I've had so far, despite a few teething issues with some of them, have really impressed me.
Shame about the rear pony truck issue. Hopefully other people will be more lucky.
Wow this guy is still uploading this is my childhood
As Bachmann attacks on OO9 (and soon, on NG7), Hornby goes all out on TT. Nice idea, and it seems Hornby does everything to make TT last, that's a good thing overall, and I am more and more inclined to think they will succeed. They do everything to get it, anyway : 1/120 scale, so no mismatch between gauge and engine scale, all recent DCC sockets (Next 18 everywhere, as far as I know), same for couplers (the model standardized by Tillig). So, if they don't go full Heljan, they are on the right track.
This one is a jewel, period. I'm glad they have such a fine model in their offer; despite some drawbacks.
I have this exact model from the IO scale range. I got it in 2020 during the Hornsby Centenery Range, the weight and box artwork completely blew me away. Fantastic Review Sam, keep up the good work, kind regards, Dan
Just arrived in the UK and there it is...a review from Sam waiting for me! My son and I are visiting a model train shop in Tooting Bec and I'm gonna buy something...good... I've seen on this channel, just because! 🤗
I hope the trip from France across to Dover was not too wet for you... those dingys can be a bugger in bad weather!,😂
@@GaryNumeroUno I have no means of knowing...I didn't arrive from France. 🤷♂️
@@joek5882hehehe... I'm glad someone finally arrived in the country legitimately!!! 😂😂😂
Hi Sam, I just wanted to give you a update on my GER P43 project. I've just finished rebuilding the cab of the locomotive, and now I'll be measuring it to fit on a hornby caledonian single chassis. I'll keep you updated.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
That's super exciting - best of luck with the rest! :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
That certainly is a good looking model.
May I just say for the first time in memory I don’t quite agree with the outcome of the review.
I don’t see how the no.1 loco in this scale this year can have a design that means it doesn’t work properly.
Yes, you correctly say it doesn’t derail going forward and only occasionally in reverse, but you also correctly point out it should not have made it to the public like this anyway!
Only my opinion of course, me with zero reviews and you with….well…..quite a few 😂
Best
What an elegant locomotive. As a GWR modeller I still find this class so impressive and they exude power and presence. Nice quality model with great fidelity at a reasonable price.
Stanier was at the GWR before he went to the LMS
The new TT LMS Princess Coronation Pacific from Hornby is a nice model. It is the 1st model to have a die cast boiler and an easy access to the dcc socket in the tender Sam. It is a shame that the rear trailing wheels base keeper plate will not let the wheels turn properly because the base plate will lock them into place which is not normal at all. Still, it is a pretty good model. By the way Sam, do you plan to review the more modern Hornby Princess Coronation pacific without the streamlined casing.
Great review, great loco! I've never liked those fixed rear pony trucks with flangeless wheels on Hornby's OO models - shame they're now using them on TT. This toy-like solution is odd when the manufacturer strives for realism in most other aspects.
How much movement do you think there was on the real locomotives? The frames were fixed and the Cartazzi axle (LNER) had sideways play only. The LMS Pacifics had rear pony trucks but then again the movement was minimal and constrained within the rear frames. If we want these models to go around 3rd radius curves and still look realistic this is the only solution. This is before you add ejector/injector pipework. I have an old OO gauge A4 "Seagull" and to my eyes it is the all too obvious rear pony truck swinging out around bends that is the "toy" solution.
@@DavidJones-hd1jj Yes, but the real thing had flanged wheels and the pony truck was able to pivot albeit only a short way.
@@jamesgilbart2672We agree! Hornby supplies flanged wheels for those who prefer that solution for display or for very large radius curves. The practicalities dictate the "floating" wheel" as one solution for 3rd radius curves and perhaps even 2nd radius curves as some insist. It does look odd to have a static wheel, but so does an articulated rear pony truck sticking out from under the cab sides on bends. Modelling sometimes requires compromise and it can be down to personal opinion - and manufacturing costs - as to what is acceptable.
It was bad luck that Sam's Duchess had an assembly fault. I am still waiting for my TXS Duchess but I have checked my Blink Bonny and that is perfectly set up with minimal but adequate clearance.
When the 4-6-0 models are (hopefully) developed this problem will disappear. 😎
Im blown away by this, Hornby TT are making some fine models 🤘
What an amazing looking duchess. I’d be happy with that detail in OO but to have it in TT is awesome. Pity the obvious fault made it into production. Yeah lighting and speaker would be nice but that would drive the price up I guess . Great review Sam
About time theres some non-LNER steam in Hornbys TT range. Really should have been released at launch. Hopefully theres some GWR and Southern steam coming soon.
Very much so - I'm glad to see some more variety now!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Wonder why there has been no G W R?😮
The flanges look much finer on this model, it really shows up in the shots next to the Pullman coaches👍
What a beautiful model Sam, especially in this colour. It wouldn't be H without some weird quality issue somewhere would it hahah. Very fair review and a good well done once again. Cheerio.
Great review Sam, the detail is amazing! Awesome video, keep up the fantastic work.
Thank you! Yeah the detail really is great on this one :D
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great video. It looks beautiful and the temptation to buy one is big. Besides the pony issue I notice d something else. The main piston rod isv wobbly. Instead of siding straight in and out. It shifts down as it pulls out then straightens going back in. It works well. However I expect a little more. Thanks for the review.
Hi Sam. I'm still waiting for my Duchess to arrive (from TMC); it is the sound-fitted version (who would have thought that sound slows down a model [LOL]). I understand your frustration(?) about the lack of a flywheel, but I have seen models a flywheel no better than the Duchess. An alternative to loosening the pony truck screw may be to add a thin washer beneath it (with possibly exchanging the countersunk screw with round- or cheese-head screw - Yes, I know it shouldn't be necessary on a brand-new model). I just hope my model has fewer issues!
For me Sam, this has to be one of Hornby's best TT locomotive. I can't wait to see what else there are going to release next.
Cheers Jasper & Willow
Yeah I think so too - probably their best looking one!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I got a Bachmann Tornado, Hornby Mallard and a Planet Industrials Kerr Stuart Victory. All with sprung buffers, but I still don't know why that's so important. What does it matter? You never use them as in real life.
Hi Sam, great video as always. I'm not planning on converting from OO to TT but this is certainly a fantastic model!
At 9:14 when you say that they were the most powerful steam locomotive ever used in Great Britain, I must disagree there. You quoted the tractive effort to back this up but the Peppercorn A2, Gresley P2, LNER U1, the original Kings, and many others had higher tractive efforts. Tractive effort isn't a great measure of power though, and whilst it is true that the hightest *recorded* peak power output on a British railway was a Coronation, the highest sustained power output to be recorded was on an A2. I think it very likely that the P2s smashed the Coronations in terms of power output. Anyway, just wanted to say that. Have a good evening :)
I suppose the disadvantage to the removable coal load hiding the dcc socket is if you want to add your own coal, that stuff might foul up the gubbins
Peachy has a solution to that!
You can get thread lock that resists vibration but releases when required.
Hi Sam , Good video, as always. It's great stuff. For me, the rear pony has to be a factory fault - they messed up the slots that allow compensation on the rear pony and bodged it with not fitting the screw properly....Hornby have designed way to many of these floating rear pony's in both TT and 00. It's so obviously wrong in reverse that the designers would have seen it in preproduction....just a guess... but we'll never really know. I would send it back for a replacement , (well after I removed the rear pony just to check, nothing obviously preventing the bogie from lifting correctly).
Yeah I think so - it's a bad design - the pony needs some springing too! I have been able to fix the issue by fitting the plate upside down - it's not ideal as the axle still drops lower than it should, but at least that way you can tighten the screw!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sam, a nice “non permanent “ alternative to hold a screw from loosening is to use nail polish. Clarinet and saxophone players often use it to keep the fine adjustment screws where they want it. It’s very easy to remove the screw deliberately but it will hold it and prevent the screw from loosening on its own
Fantastic! Finally loco tested on points 🙂Have been looking for this for quite some time 🙂
On the basis of your review I purchased this loco, hoping to put the dreaded issues with the A1/3/4 motor issues behind me, as has 5 pole motor instead of 3 pole motor, fist thing to say was very impressed with the model and looks better in real life, and my bunny wheels was tight not loose, which was a concern you had, so thought happy days, linked to ipad app ready to run in, but as soon as set speed to 50 it was incredibly slow, matches speed of scotsman 17, was very upset I had this issues straight out of the box. returned to Hornby so they could check it out. I asked them to send a direct replacement as it was brand new out of box and should not have any issues, not company policy tech. team said, they said there Chinese manufature does not have as stringent QC checking as in UK, and Hornby then batch check 3 out of twelve in a box (25%), so could not guarantee, even if sent a new one it would be correct. This as is seems is just Russian roulette, Come on Hornby this is unacceptable to all TT 120 customers, feel Hornby are relying on customer good grace to put up with there issues and penalise customers. Sorry for the rant but can you contact Hornby and get some answers on there QC issues and customer treatment. Keep up the good work Sam, are others sick of these issues and should we have to put up with clearly faulty goods and there longevity as we put a lot of time, effort and money into the train hobby..
Honestly if Hornby keeps up with bringing in more locos to this scale I might consider switching to tt.
Ive been wondering lately if Gordon's Hill on your layout was intentional
It wasn't - it was made because of the slight slope of the floor!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Got quite a few of these in OO including the Streamlined version which is Duchess of Hamilton, as for Duchess of Atholl I do have that one myself but it’s the old hornby dublo one converted to 2 rail, going by when it would originally have been released it has to be the oldest model locomotive I have in my whole collection.
Yeah absolutely - I like the OO ones too!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I would argue that's why they've done it the first one released model was just pre war. Bearing in mind that mine is around 1948, the modelling was awesome then.
The Princess Coronation is one of my favorite classes from Britain, so you can say that I am a sucker for a good Coronation (I have 3 in OO). This isn't just a good one, it is a great one.
It’s a good locomotive, love the colour. I am torn between TT and N. As I am stumbling, N still has my vote as there is more choice. But if southern appears, it might be a win. Good video though. 🎉
If only you could experience building a Brassmasters Coronation Sam. Few other models shout high quality and weight like those! Now if only Hornby decided instead to make their new line 0 gauge, or H0 gauge, they would have been able to do even more! Thanks as always.
That sounds wonderful - are they still available to buy anywhere??
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains its the opposite problem! XD They're still testing and refining the kit, the best part being that all the difficult parts are cast in resin, so only minimal soldering/gluing skills are necessary! They do have a Princess Royal. You can read about the test builders progress by looking up Brassmasters Dutchess. BTW, the paint is nigh on perfect on the diecast parts on the Hornby model. It takes so much extra effort to make a perfect looking LMS/Midland Crimson, that I personally cannot believe or take fault with Hornby's excellent colour choice and application, which is something that I never thought I'd end up saying!
well Sam you now have to make a landscape for your TT scale trains, we are the haulage up Gordons hill etc
Hi Sam, thanks for the review. Regarding the rear pony, would it help to put a very thin washer under the plate where the screw is to raise the plate slightly, so you can tighten the screw and ease the pressure on the axle? Regards Barry.
Hi Sam, Looks a good little engine 🚂😅, TT coming along 😁, thanks for the review, All the best Brian 😊
Sam. There are 3 of these in preservation. The City of Birmingham still exists as a museum exhibit in original condition. The three in preservation have had guage modifications carried out while the City of Birmingham is all original.
When Boris Johnson was London Mayor he wanted to buy it, and put it back into steam as the City of London. Birmingham refused to sell. When they were taken out of steam, all of the Cities were offered to the city they were named after. Birmingham was the only city to take up the offer.
When did Johnson want to do this, I don’t recall this about City of Birmingham*?
Seems odd as there was also Duchess of Hamilton and Duchess of Sutherland.
* I know enthusiasts for decades have wanted it restored to working order rather than being mothballed now at Thinktank.
It would have been interesting to see what the slots the pony wheels are in look like, is there a moulding defect or just some flashing that wasn't cleaned up. Seem to me the wheels should sit a bit deeper in the slots so as that screw can be fully tightened plus allow the drivers to sit on the track fully.
I have now checked that - there's nothing obviously wrong. But yeah, the tolerances seem to be out... the fit is perfect with no allowance for any clearance. It's improvable by fitting the keeper plate upside down, which still allows too much vertical movement in the axle, but at least allows you to tighten the screw,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Sorry Sam but you just said that they were built with Streamlining. Not all were and if you don't believe me look in your hand. Atholl was built without streamlining from the factory. You can also tell that because she is LMS without it, no smoke deflectors and no slope on the front by the chimney.
Yes that’s completely true - I’m not arguing with that 😂
fabulous looking locomotive and with TT becoming more important to the hobby how about a larger more detailed test track?
Sam, I'm curious to know how you measure the pulling force and how you convert this into number of coaches?
Fantastic rating Sam and nice review video I love it 38:08
Thanks Dennis!
@@SamsTrains My pleasure Sam
Hi sam good to see another video 👍🏻😊
Why wasn't the Flying Scotsman in the rating book? You could compare the pony truck between the two of them and see if there is a visible problem.
Thankyou Sam for another great review. I'm starting to become more optimistic for the survival of Hornby's TT scale. I would like to see some Great Western engines and rolling stock. On another subject, have you reviewed the Bachmann Class 40. It's in your book of stats as coming 6th but I can't find the review. Cheers!
It would be interesting to hear from you about the viability of this scale now. In some of your videos you have been critical of Hornby introducing TT120.
I think my criticisms still stand - there's still not enough in the scale for it to attract serious modellers in my opinion, but it's good to see Hornby sticking with it - this will change if they continue to develop the range!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
A quick fix without sending the loco back would be fitting a pony axle with a slightly smaller wheel diameter, if available or if a lathe is on hand,-) Quite sure the loco will pull much more then. I wonder why they did not make the pony swing in the first place. Anyway, congratulations to Hornby for continuing the TT range!
The rear wheels of LNER and most of the LMS Pacifics were hidden between fixed outer frames. Older models made the frames and in some cases even parts of the firebox swing, but this means gaps where there shouldn't be any. Making it all fixed looks better on the straight and arguably no worse on tight curves, but mechanically it isn't ideal.
Hi there,
Not really related to this video but I watched your video on Triang Super 4 track. At last, somebody other than me knows about the correct sleeper spacing and brown too! If only a manufacturer would make a modern equivalent! I still think it is good and robust track. I would just politely put you right on one thing though. You say it is stainless steel but stainless steel doesn't go rusty! This is ordinary steel.
With kind regards from Zoë.
Mine arrived from Hornby a week or so ago. Got it out to run this weekend... and the gears on one side were bent out of shape and causing the wheels to lock up... Waiting on their customer service to get back to me. Gutted because it is a gorgeous loco for TT and having to wait longer before I can run my own is a pain.
Ahh such a pity - so that's another issue preventing one of these from working properly.... really hope they get in touch with you to fix this soon!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
@@SamsTrains Again, and as always: QC problems. And this is just general with ALL made in china products. Their planes fall out of the sky but all is covered up immediately !
Try the other wheel set in the pony truck.nice loco wish hornby would do some southern railway locos or Western.
Sadly that won't work on anything but the broadest of curves - the flangeless ones are essential for train set curves!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
There is a prefitted speaker..... Its under the tender PCB. Another youtuber discovered it when fitting sound to one. Its also confirmed to be a 5 pole motor by Hornby. I don't have one to test of my own as I'm waiting on the BR ones but other reviews clearly show both of those being features. The reason the trailing truck is also 'loose' is its fully replaceable for a tyred version if you have curves that allow for it.
Goodness sake - yes you're quite right! Should have known not to trust the instructions -they're incorrect then. Yes the rear wheels are replaceable, but that's no reason for the screw to need to be loose!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Glad we're getting a lot of stuff in TT
However we some more stuff in the range .
How about Hornby give us some LNER coaches for the LNER engines we have
I also think some DMUs would be cool my pics are the class 101 and the class 143
I also think TT peckets could sell well
Terriers and 4 /6 wheels coaches can also be nice
Dear Sam, If you have time, can you please Review the Frateschi giant Electric GE EP-4 in HO Scale? Looking forward!
the main thing for me is the wheel flanges aren't so coarse as they are on the A1/A4. not sure if this is how future models will be or if the size of the wheels on this loco made it a necessity
I couldn't decide between this and the Class 50. With that pony truck, I think the Class 50 is the better bet! However, this is a great looking loco. If you didn't know, you could quite believe it was OO! Thanks for uploading.
It's tricky - the class 50 was less problematic on the track, but this looks the best... the 50 is a good call though! Yes the detail is very close to OO this time!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Great review Sam. Beautiful looking model. So frustrating the basic engineering of the fake pony truck lets it down. I might consider cutting a deeper axle slot in the chassis for the rear pony. That way it rides higher and clear of the track, allowing the rear driving wheels to fully contact the track. I wish Hornby produced Pacific’s with proper pony trucks. I’ve read they consider their alternative design of a fake flange-less simpler for people to place the model on the track. Why not just do it in prototypical fashion?
Because the prototypes did not have to negotiate the equivalent of 3rd radius curves. A flanged wheel-set is included for anyone who wishes to display the model.
All it needed was a screw tightening.
Well it needed more than that; fully tightening the screw stopped it rotating. The worst part was the fact when it was off the track the rear drivers were on the track; means the rear pony axle is sat too low; hence cut the axle slot deeper. Simple.
Come on Sam, get a grip, our favourite source of information tells me that the Coronation Class's tractive effort was 40,000 ft lbs, that of the P2s 43,500. Maybe you need to qualify your statement, possibly/probably the most powerful Pacifics. The most powerful locomotive to run on on UK rails was the LNER U1, 60,000 ft lbs, a Garret machine I admit
It would be nice to know where your figure of hauling specifically 27 coaches comes from?
It's a shame that locos chosen aren't ones that are in preservation since they would appeal to modellers of layouts which are original period correct and also of modern preservation lines (which I am surprised are not more popular since there is so much more potential flexibility/licence in what and how you run on one) Bit odd that there's an era 5 J50 on the Hornby site marked "unavailable" rather than in stock or available to pre-order - wonder why that is?
I kept looking at it and looking at it thinking something is wrong. Then I spotted it. Weren't the Coronation class, after their streamlining was removed, fitted with smoke deflectors?
Yes they did have deflectors, but the 1944 batch was built without them I believe... then, because of smoke issues, the deflectors were soon added,
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
TT is one scale that i have not bought into, i am waiting to see if there are further releases
at more sensible prices.
I still think that at the current retailer prices they are just too high and close to what i feel
is reasonable for 00 scale
Still good to see an LMS Loco instead of the LNER ones that are of no interest to me.
22:15. You were given a flanged set to put in its place. Did you even try it out?
I honestly believe that TT scale could be used as a size of narrow gauge in HO or OO scale. Maybe 3ft or Meter Gauge.
Hmmm not quite - for narrowgauge at OO you want N gauge track!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Narrow gauge Meter or 3ft can be done with 12mm track, some old IOM steam railway kits have used this gauge and European meter gauge Hom also.
I have some Rhb / MOB models that goes on HOM track and some dual gauge track that's Standard and Meter .
Awesome video! Hopefully my next model.
Sam did you remove the Plate where the Decoder fits there maybe a sugar cube speaker
Regarding the loose pony truck screw, would one or more KaDee fiber washers fit between the plastic cover plate and the chassis and still allow the screw to pass through? Maybe that would allow the screw to be tightened without locking the axle.
How can I purchase HORNBY TT 120 model with track & bogies & what is the cost in Indian corrency
Can you please try some Canadian, Japanese, or German locos Sam? Sorry if I’m bothering you but I won’t stop commenting this until I get a response at least.
I much prefer gloss as the real locomotives are like that you can see your reflection in them, they are not satin they are not matt apart from the smokebox.
That's right - especially with the Coronations!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
I agree! I love the gloss finish, I just got a hornby mallard in nrm exclusive gloss finish and it is wayyyy better than the matte/satin finish that hornby usually uses - I did a couple of videos on it, if you want to see what it looks like:)
The crawl on blinkhonney is amazing. Better than the coronation you've got
Fantastic looking engine👍😊🤩😎
Thanks Sam, it sure is!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Bachmann just announce the all new tooling class 08 / class 09
Heres a question, why is it that a lot of British models don't have moving rear truck or pony truck? They did on the real models, but I've noticed that the majority of models dont
They used to until about 2005 when Hornby redesigned a number of models to replace the ones that were still using tooling from the 80's. The idea is that by having a floating axle the detail around the cab area can be greatly improved without having to worry about wheelbase length or sideways clearances, especially on things like the A4s which had Cartazzi axles in real life and not pony trucks as depicted in model form.
Original locos with Cartazzi trucks did not pivot like a pony. The axles moved very slightly in the axle boxes sideways and self-centred utilising wedges.
It's totally impossible to model that in a small scale hence various other methods found on models.
Hello, you did not mention that there is only one slide bar and sould be two.
Looks like they could have fitted pony wheel of too larger diameter. Is the flanged axle set any smaller in diameter or the same as fitted one?
Awesome video Sam's trains 🚆 😊
Cheers Brian!
@@SamsTrains you're welcome Sam's trains 🚆 😊
I don't see why they could not have designed the rear pony truck to move especially as TT120 is accurate in terms of track gauge and scale.
I am impressed though with what I'm seeing in this new scale.
You need to build a bigger TT layout now Sam 👍
haha yeah I do!!
A good review for a Lovely little Loco 🙂🚂🚂🚂
Peachy found a speaker in his after digging a bit more trying to fit one of his own!
It would be wonderful to have a TT Great Western Express Engine in the line!
It would be - a nice Manor or Hall would be great!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Ive just bought the Hornby Eastener. Sorry but i found the 120 size fiddly to set up. Im 76 so thats probaby why. Im going to stick to my 00 and 0 gauge. Much easier to use.
Those rear Cortazzi wheels are a pain. My Blink Bonny arrived as a 4-6-0, i.e. with the wheels missing, and in all scales they run poorly and don't help the riding of the loco.
It's a very tough thing to get right - they've got to be just at the right height otherwise it doesn't work... on this example it was wrong!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
How do you write blue tec ? Can't find it on the internet
Hi Sam your my favorite RUclipsr
Thank you so much! :D
just noticed that Hornby messed up the alignment of the return crank and the crosshead bounces about in the slidebars. what a shame.
Is the round buffers on the tender and oval buffers on the locomotive correct? Just wondering because I swear Ive seen a picture of the tender with oval buffers but I may be mistaken
I'm pretty sure it's correct - there may have been exceptions though!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
The price is still an unbelievable bargain. Incredible.
This model looks great. Shame about that rear pony. Unfortunately, you got a lot of the history wrong...
Most of the design was by Tom Coleman of Derby Works, as Stanier was in India. The streamlining was in response to the LNER's A4s, built to hug the locos because they were so big and barely fit the loading gauge, but was found to be as effective as other forms of streamlining. It was the GWR's "streamlining" that had little to no effect. 24 were built with streamlining (batches 1 (5), 2 (5) , 4 (10), and 5 (4)), 9 were built without streamlining or deflectors (batches 3 (5) and 6 (4)), 3 were built unstreamlined with deflectors (batch 7 (3)), and the final 2 were a modified design by Ivatt (batch 8). 6234 (the last of batch 3) was the first to gain the double chimney as a modification, with batch 4 onwards being built with them (hence the need for deflectors), and the rest being modified with them.
Only the first 5 locos, outshopped in the blue and silver, had matching coaches (the 3 Coronation Scot 9-car rakes). The rest ran with standard LMS stock, and I'd imagine the 5 blue locos weren't always on the Coronation Scot (and the Coronation Scot didn't always have a blue loco on it). The reason for not doing the streamlined versions here will be because they'd need a completely new body, which is a lot of time and money when Hornby are trying to churn these out as fast as possible.
I eventually ran in my class 50 today, and it runs very well. A bit slow at 50%, but the top speed is absolutely fine. And she sounds great too. The mk2Fs run well as well, no issues with them.
Are you going to review the mk3s and the mk2Fs?
Thanks a lot for the info! I was under the impression that Stanier knew the streamlining was largely pointless, but did it to make a statement. Yeah the 50 is fantastic - really like that! I've got more models in other scales that need attention now, so the coaches will wait - but hopefully I'll cover those at some point!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam, I think you will find that it does have a pre fitted speaker.... Set inside a very good sound chamber. Speaks volumes that after all your probing and prodding that you didn't research the model enough to know that. Otherwise not a bad review.
I missed the speaker due to the instructions being wrong - the diagram shows the speaker in a different location, and says there’s space for one, not that one was fitted. See the video description for more info.
Honestly this engine looks pretty good and I’m glad that it’s working properly but that whole decision to make the pony truck part of the chassis mold is not acceptable in my opinion. There’s no benefit for doing it and honestly it doesn’t look as good as one that actually moves like it’s supposed to
I could only DREAM to afford an all-new Hornby diecast locomotive. 😅 Though, I am thinking of picking up a similar Tri-ang Princess at some point, one of my dream models... 🤔
Well this one's a good bit cheaper than their OO ones!!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)
Hi Sam I’ve seen other reviews of the other steam engine and they say the same thing about the pony wheels so must be the only downside of tt
Sam, I'd love you to review the new tooled OO gauge Dapol tank wagons, which retail much higher than the wagons by Rapido or Accurascale.
We need more British regions and different haulage intensity represented in TT. Getting tired of the default express LNER
Hey Sam, just to let you know, I think you might have said the price wrong here? 40:04
Haha that’s a weird one - thank you for letting me know!
That rear pony axil should have been sprung and given some more sideways movement.
That's right - at the very least it should be sprung... as it is, if you have any inclines, the rear drivers will lift off the track and the loco will loose a lot of it's traction!
Thanks for watching, Sam :)