Utah’s Decent Train
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Have you heard of the FrontRunner? It's a train that runs between Ogden, UT and Provo, UT, passing Salt Lake City along the way. This route serves close to 81% of the entire state of Utah's population. Trains run on their own dedicated tracks, seeing frequencies as high as 2 trains per hour per direction during rush hour, and a minimum of hourly service at other times. But don't bother trying to ride the train on Sunday...
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Chapters
0:00 The Problem with Commuter Rail
3:24 Regional Rail Explained
4:33 Introducing FrontRunner
5:36 Why it's good
8:55 Problems with FrontRunner
9:40 Conclusion 
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One of the big reasons FrontRunner can't run more frequently and run on Sundays is because most of the line is single track. There's limited passing space, and it also means the tracks wear out faster from the "high" level of service. The only day left for maintenance is thus Sunday
I work on the FrontRunner and actually the reason is it's the only day we can do track maintenance
I used to reverse-commute on Frontrunner 5 days a week from Salt Lake to Provo! It was actually very reliable even in the snow (much faster than driving on snow days)
I’m sure it was a fairly relaxing way to travel!
Actually, on weekday mornings between Draper and Provo, the commute pattern is towards Provo because of BYU and UVU.
Now imagine doing it out of a good train station. You should check out the Rio Grande Plan!
same
5:19 SLC resident here, I think I know the reason why Utah still cares more about public transit than other Republican-controlled local governments, the reason being that most are also Mormon. Many Mormons go on religious missions to other countries and many have to rely on the public transit in said places to get around. I believe many come back to Utah and want a piece of that here.
The state gov fought train expansion every step of the way. They are starting to open more to it but only FrontRunner since it serves the more Republican areas.
I think it was more because of the big smog issue here, too. Republicans seem to hate Ev's here too
While not all Mormons are politically conservative, even those that who are are have some pretty unique stances compared to non-Mormon conservatives. Makes for some surprising distinctions between a Republican-led Utah and any other Republican state particularly in issues of immigration, public transit, social welfare, and (perhaps to a lesser degree) LGBTQ issues.
@@Goffdude24 Utah resident here, many Mormons do consider themselves conservative, but prefer not to be affiliated with the main party (in my experience) Its almost a party within a party because many candidates will platform with Republicans despite the fair difference in viewpoints
Yep, two years in Japan, and I would love to have anything close to their amazing train systems!
Right now Frontrunner doesn’t run on Sundays because that’s when they do maintenance. Once more double track is laid Frontrunner will run seven days a week
Utah native. Frontrunner is acutally on a single track for most of its route, but this is changing. They are doing construction slowly but surely to double track it so it can run more frequesntly, and from what I understand there are plans to make it electrified at some point in the future. As far as the Sunday service is the demand just isn't there. One day it will be, but most businesses are closed here on Sunday, so people really don't need this transit option on Sunday.
They're already in talks with the company that will build the electric trains. The benefit is it's a local company, so the trains will be built right here in Utah. They'll also be at an advantage a bit costwise as well because before the company built their own building UTA allowed them to temporarily utilize some of their train buildings that UTA wasn't using over by the refinery for Frontrunner.
The company is called Stadler.
Utah's urban development along the Rockies is perfect for a line like this. It's why Colorado is attempting to replicate this kind of Regional Rail, however they're doing so with Amtrak and a state-supported corridor along the Front Range. Colorado is also uniquely urbanized in basically a straight line along the mountains, and that makes it perfect for this kind of service, especially when supplemented with Denver's up and coming Regional Rail network. It's a good move and really nice to see Central States are really starting to take rail more seriously
That's the convenient thing about mountains. You get corridors like the Willamette Valley, Central Valley, and the Wasatch Front, and Front Range. And the Taiheiyou belt in Japan
I think the initial plan is for 3 trains each way per day between Ft. Collins and Colo Springs (via Denver obviously) with one daily continuing north to Cheyenne and one south to Pueblo. Much better than what the Front Range has now (which is nothing) , but pretty abysmal compared to the Frontrunners half hourly all day service. Even Rail Runner in Albuquerque manages 8ish trains per direction per day. Even more sad considering the Front Range’s population is just over 5 million, the Wasatch Front is 2.6 million and the I-25 corridor around ABQ is barely over 1 million.
My dream for the Front Range would for RTD to scrap the D light rail line and B commuter rail line and replace these with a combined, single RER/ S Bahn-like line that runs from Castle Rock to Longmont making local stops (the stops that the D line currently serves and the proposed B line would serve) with 15 minute all day service. Overlayed on this service would be a regional service stretching from Pueblo to Cheyenne that would act as a more express like service, serving only the major stops along the “RER” (Castle Rock - Longmont) section. I could see hourly all day service from Colo. Spgs. To Ft. Collins with possible half hourly peak service depending on demand. Im thinking maybe 5-8 daily trains continuing north to Cheyenne and south to Pueblo. The Silverliners could serve the “RER” line for fleet commonalities, and perhaps Flirt or KISS diesel electric trains for the Pueblo to Cheyenne segment.
One can dream…
@@Dimewick21 the reason why the corridor will only see 4 round trips a day compared to a front runner style service is because of distance, Pueblo to Cheyenne is around 220-230 miles compared to the front runner’s 80 miles and the Rail runner’s 90 miles.
Though they are planning rta regional service to boulder so it’ll start improving.
@@CreatorPolar you’re pretty much echoing what I said about the extreme ends of the line. I agree that 5-8 trains to Pueblo and Cheyenne would likely suffice, likely less at least initially. But Ft. Collins to Colorado Spgs (obviously via Denver, possibly as separate services) could justify far more service. The distance from Ft C to ColoSpgs via Denver is 133 miles. While I agree that is a fairly long distance for commuter/regional rail, it is basically the exact same distance from Lancaster CA to San Bernardino CA via LA. These combined routes see hourly commuter rail service.
Love transit in the SLC area. Stayed about 20 minutes from downtown. Never once needed a car or Uber. Also love the light rail from the airport!
A former SLC resident here. Wasatch Front managed to build a great transportation system for its size. I was not a regular Frontrunner passenger, but the transfer between TRAX and Frontrunner is quite decent, even for a person not from the US.
Seattle, take note. They run two trains in the morning from Everett to Seattle and two trains back in the evenings, weekdays only. Nobody thinks that the 110,000 people in Everett might want to spend an afternoon in Seattle? Or go on a weekend?
I’m hoping one day Link will just be extended to Everett.
Fun video. One cool thing about the fare is that you should never have to pay more than $15 per day to ride Frontrunner (and TRAX and regular buses). UTA has a long-standing $15 group pass promotion that
“allows up to four people to ride together on local bus, TRAX, FrontRunner, and the S-Line” until 3 a.m. the following day. If I know I’m going to be riding a lot on Frontrunner and other UTA services, I usually get the pass and don’t worry about fares for the rest of the day.
I was going to comment that there is a catch on the group pass that you can't use it before something like 8:30am, but I just checked the website and it looks like that restriction has been removed. I remember because the last time I was in Utah, I was visiting my in-laws in Ogden and wanted to visit Salt Lake for the day and when I had looked up the fares, it had a restriction on how early you could use it and it frustrated me because it completely ruined my plans for the day. It's nice to see that UTA dropped that (apparently) short lived restriction.
There is also a bus-only Day Pass for $5 if you are going to be traveling a bit more local. It's single person though, so if you have a party of four, the group pass is always superior.
@@soniccookie655 The $5 pass also works on TRAX and streetcar services.
Most of Utah lives in the Wasatch Front because of quite simply, geography. Since the earliest days of European settlement, most of Utah's population has chosen to settle along the Wasatch range's western front, where numerous rivers exit the mountains. For early settlers, the mountains were a vital water source, timber, and granite. Not to mention it's part of the Great Basin. The Great Salt Lake is a remnant of Lake Bonneville, which covered much of western Utah.
Uplift of the modern Wasatch Range only began within the past 12 to 17 million years. However, during the Cretaceous Period (138 to 66 million years ago), compressional forces in the earth’s crust began to form mountains by stacking or thrusting up large sheets of rock in an area that included what is now the northeasternmost part of Utah, including the northern Wasatch Range. This thrust belt was then heavily eroded. About 38 to 24 million years ago large bodies of magma intruded parts of what is now the Wasatch Range. These granitic intrusions, eroded thrust sheets, and the older sedimentary rocks form the uplifted Wasatch Range as it is seen today.
How do you know so much about Utah mister Kim?
What a lovely dedicated track that’s only $12 for 80 miles. How awesome!!!
There's nothing worse than seeing a train station by your hotel and then seeing no weekend service. Come on Sunrail....
Yep…
I found Utah to be one of the easiest places to visit on transit. There are lots of attractions in all three of the major cities as well as their suburbs, and the service level is exactly right on weekdays. Like you I really wish they'd add Sunday service, but that may be too much to ask in Utah.
I don't use the frontrunner often, but when I do one of the things I like funnily enough, is the sheer BASS that emits from the tracks as the train pulls up to the station.
Music to my ears
I actually live right next to a frontrunner station, and used it frequently when attending college. It's a nice, consistent line that I quite honestly enjoyed. The schedule was really nice and fit my school schedule nicely.
it's just a nice line, and I'm proud of it
I am so curious why my SLC content is blowing up right now. Did you just get this video suggested?
@@Thom-TRA Today to me
@Thom-TRA Yeah I just reccomendes a bunch of your stuff as well
utah resident here who commutes to slc via frontrunner several times a week - i just want to shout out the other thing that makes the frontrunner so useful: at least in salt lake proper the busses are also rather good for us city standards. major routes through the city run every fifteen minutes, are pretty reliably on time and stick to their schedule, and transfers from trax and frontrunner are pretty easy. like at least personally, the frontrunner could be fantastic service but if i can't get from its stop to my end destination it doesn't end up being as useful
The rail system here is a source of pride for me. I use it to go to school.
As someone who lives in an apartment next to a train track in SLC I almost never hear the trains pass by me. My job involves driving to several different places per day so it's not practical for me to ride the train but I know many people who do and they say it's nice.
It's very quiet and it's fun to see the train windows lit up at night. Plus, when I ride on the Frontrunner I get to go "hey look, that's where I used to live!".
As a local who uses the system often, heres my input:
1. Many cities, and the Utah Transit Authority themselves, are trying to get TOD at most stations, on both FrontRunner and TRAX. Clearfield is actually currently constructing a pretty massive TOD project right by the station.
2. The Genesee and Wyoming (Utah Railway) actually operates on the TRAX system overnight, and Union Pacific can access certain points on the FrontRunner system overnight to serve many industrial areas.
3. Improvements are coming. Right now, there is a project being worked on to get more double tracking on the system to improve frequency during rush hour. Electrification is in the plans, but is many years down the road, partly because of cost, just like everything else in this great country where we think taxes are the governments way to destroy society.
4. Many people are advocating for Sunday service on FrontRunner. It's not only the religious aspect of Utah preventing it, but also the contracts with the Utah Railway and Union Pacific preventing service on Sunday.
5. The FrontRunner is the only system, that I am aware of, that uses Bombardier Bi-levels, that is fully ADA compliant with the use of high-block platforms.
These are all great points. I did not know about the freight trains sharing tracks with the, eh, TRAX.
@@Thom-TRA I photograph them all the time. They're fun to capture. Although it's most Savage Bingham and Garfield and not Utah Railway
Regarding Sunday service. The main reason is the lack of single track which means Sunday is their maintenance day. If there was a double track, they said they'd be able to have Sunday service, but I don't 100% understand it
@@jameslongstaff2762 With double track, they can shut down one side to do track inspection and maintenance. This is particularly important when they have to do heavy work like repairing switches, replacing worn rail that can't be ground and other such work. With single track, there is no way to that work except to try to get done quickly overnight. However when you have last trains at 1:00 AM and first trains at around 4:00, you don't have much of a window to do that work. Thus the down day.
Wth is TOD?????
Frontrunner is a pretty good system. They have been talking for years about doing more double tracking. About 75% of Frontrunner's alignment is single track(except at stations and a few sidings for passing). Once they get more double tracking done, then the rumor is for electrification, and even Sunday service. Freight trains are allowed to access the main lines of both Frontrunner and Trax after midnight when there is no passenger service so they can service the industries along the lines. Although most of Frontrunner is on single track, UTA did make a good decision on building and using their own tracks. If a train has a mechanical issue away from a siding or station, that creates system wide delays. There are a few points along the alignment that probably will never be able to have doulbe track(lack of room), but that might only amount to 5% at most...which having 95% double tracks would be a great thing for reliability. Thanks for the good video!
As a former Utah resident who still visits family there regularly, Utah as a whole is something of a transit mecca (well, Northern Utah, can't speak for southern Utah). Not only does UTA operate a surprisingly robust system for an urban area the size of the Wasatch Front, but there is also the Cache Valley Transit District in Logan Utah which operates completely fare free (with surprisingly good coverage and frequency for a town of its size, 13 routes, most of which have half hour or better frequency for the entire day, operating every day but Sunday). Park City Utah also operates a completely fare free system with 15 routes, service 365 days a year (I don't think on all routes though), most routes half hour or better.
Others have pointed out that a large part of the amazing transit service in Utah is that a lot of Mormons will go on missions overseas to areas where they can reliably depend on transit and when they come back, they want to be able to continue to have that available to them. I think that another factor is that, much like the online joke about how if you go far enough left you get your guns back, if you go far enough right, you get your trains back. Logan didn't create a fare free public transit system covering the entire community because they are bleeding heart liberals, they did it because it was cheaper than trying to build adequate parking in historic downtown for everyone to drive there and because the increased tax revenues/decreased expenses related to people being able to get better job opportunities thanks to the improved transit access was a net benefit to the city budget. Park City didn't build a fare free system with frequent service 365 days a year because they are bleeding heart liberals, they did it because it's a good selling point to bring in tourists, just use one of the many shuttle services available from the SLC airport to get to Park City and then you can move about the city freely and easily, never worrying about renting a car, paying for gas, or dealing with parking or traffic. UTA didn't become a relative juggernaut because the state is super onboard with the utopian 15 minute city vision, it's become prominent because car dependent infrastructure is incredibly expensive and despite what appears to be a high cost to provide quality transit (because all the costs are concentrated in one budget), it is a lot cheaper than trying to maintain all the car dependent infrastructure that they'd otherwise need (which a lot of people mistake for being less expensive because it is hard to truly grasp the cost unless you look at all the various budgets that it impacts). Utah is incredibly fiscally conservative, in the truest sense of the word, in that they won't pinch pennies at the expense of dimes. They will gladly invest in things that pay off with dividends in the future.
Oh, and one thing to keep in mind about the Frontrunner using diesel, there are multiple refineries along the Wasatch Front (one is literally adjacent to the Frontrunner service depot), so sourcing diesel fuel was/is incredibly easy for UTA.
Appreciate the thorough insights!
I went to school at USU and miss Cache Valley Transit every time I think about using public transit
Linear population corridors are definitely really good for rail service (in fact, just look at the NEC for the best example in the US!). If you want to know about another regional rail system that benefits from a linear corridor, Caltrain would be the most notable one. Its all-day schedule with no distinct "inbound" or "outbound" directions allows it to be useful for everyone living along the corridor, and is why it manages to stay alive despite the massive loss of employment in San Francisco after the pandemic. Plus, after the introduction of the Stadler EMUs next year, it will start to look a lot more like a European regional rail line, which is great news.
Caltrain video coming soon!
I think the potential for a single line system to grow from "commuter rail" to "regional rail" is greater than a larger system of different lines. If there's an influx of funds in a larger system, the temptation is to run additional, new, commuter heavy lines. If there's just one line, the only place that that funding can go is to run more trains on the existing line.
I'm a student and I just rode 50 miles on the train on Saturday. It really came in handy. It's also so much cheaper (and more frequent) than the charter bus. I love trains and I'm proud of the good that's happening with transit in Utah.
I went to SLC this past spring and was pleasantly surprised about the quality and range of the light rail so I'm looking forward to that video. Tons of TOD going up around the stations. Didn't have a reason to take the Frontrunner but I'm impressed with the schedule. Whenever I take the Penn Line of MARC I need to look up the timetable beforehand.
Utahns are a different breed. Despite the conservatism it seems a lot of them want better transit. I think a huge part of why is the SLC Olympics prep wanting them to make a world class city. But also, because of the history of Mormon missionaries, a lot of them got worldly travel experience decades ago, more than most Americans have, and they've seen the positives of public transit and so are a little ahead of the game.
Interesting conclusion about Utahns. I don’t know anybody from the state so I’m always glad to hear other people’s thoughts about it.
The TRAX video is gonna be a good one!
So, the interesting thing about Utah and SLC is the reason for the republican supermajority is the Mormon connection. The city itself is very liberal and had a Democrat supermajority in its government. That all being said the need for transit is because in the winter SLC becomes the most polluted city in the country because of inversion. We want to fight it and transit is the best option. We just have some representatives who have an old frame of mind that cars are the end all be all and want to expand our freeways when we really just need better transit. So what needs to happen is the expansion of the UTA Light rail system to be more downtown oriented. I have more details in my comment on this video but check out the Rio Grande Plan!
@@FrederickJenny The transit yt algorithm pointed me to another content creator that is working on the Rio Grande Plan and highlighted Reno as a similar example. I'll need to look into more about it.
@@sebastianjoseph2828 it probably was @CSLenhart. He is one of the guys behind the creation of the plan.
SLC resident, I totally agree with the Olympics idea, but the Olympics were just a great excuse to build out a network like so many people around here have seen elsewhere. Here's hoping that the Olympics come back so we can bust out light rail outside of SLC proper and make a few spurs on the Frontrunner out to Tooele and up into Cache Valley. I dream of rail down to St. George or up to Boise but that's a long shot even though they're talking about doing studies. Long live Frontrunner other than that awful no service Sundays
9:02 I think that the reason it isn’t electrified yet is because it isn’t fully double tracked. UTA has a plan to double track the FrontRunner by 2029, then they might electrify it.
It won't be completely double tracked by 2029. They are aiming for strategic double tracking. When all is said and done, we will go from about 25% double tracked to about 50% double tracked. That's still a good improvement. The rumor is once this is done, we will have 15 minute service on peak hours, 30 minute service the rest of the day, and some Sunday service as well. I could be wrong on the Sunday thing, but that's the rumor I've heard.
@@c216mohl I think you’re correct, and once they do that they might expand service to Payson and Brigham City.
Thank you for this excellent video. I have not tried the Utah Front Runner, but have read much about it. It sounds great as you experienced, and as a great fan of diesel locos, I think those MPI locos are superb - they are probably as emission friendly as any big diesel in the U.S today. I have tried the New Mexico Rail Runner, and that uses identical bi-level cars and locos as Utah. It is excellent, and runs about 100 miles from Santa Fe to Belen to the west of Albuquerque. It has a Sunday service too, and runs four times on Sundays throughout the length of the line ! Well worth a visit !
The railrunner has been on my list for a long time!
Have you come across The Rio Grande Plan? It has been proposed by
Christian Lenhart who has a YT channel devoted to the scheme.
If not, I would thoroughly recommend viewing
Top 10 Favorite Features of The Rio Grande Plan
Is that the one across Colorado?
@@Thom-TRA
I am having problems getting my reply function to work so apologies if you have multiple messages.
The short answer is no. The plan relates to digging a train box along the path of original Rio Grande tracks through SLC.
@@fenlinescouser4105 I brought that up to in my comments! Its a great plan and it needs to happen for anything to improve in SLC.
@@FrederickJenny You hadn't posted prior to my reply getting accepted or at least I was unaware. Apologies, your comment far more informed and detailed than mine.🙂
@@fenlinescouser4105 Oh no worries, my post got deleted, but I love that you brought it up! We need it to happen so bad and @CSLenhart has great videos on it.
I visit Salt Lake City in late May and early June. I booked a hotel near the Frontrunner and the light rail Station . since i return my rental car back to the airport after exploring the northern part of the state of Utah. Took the Green Line from the airport to my hotel. Rode the green line a few other stops. highlight was riding the Frontrunner to Ogden for the day. overall the schedule work well for me. But it would of been great if they had Frontrunner on Sunday.
i love frontrunnner. i live right next to a station and the train bell is honestly kinda nice background noise. i’m a student so i get free transit, and i frequently hop on frontrunner to go to my parents’ house, or go up to salt lake or down to provo, and bc it connects w trax i have a fair amount of mobility it’s pretty nice. it’s also just a nice train w great views of the valley. i just wish there was a sunday service and more frequency. it would also be nice if it went a little further south to connect southern utah valley, but i’ve heard that’s in future plans
Free transit for students is the best thing ever. I’ll be sad to give it up (even if mine is only valid on one agency out of the many we have here).
I used to take FrontRunner on Saturdays to a game night with friends. But COVID happened and one of the effects is that UTA discontinued the very last northbound train to Ogden. So it's back to car as our group finishes in the 11:00pm hour. The last northbound now passing my station runs through in the 10:00 hour. A bit of a bummer, because it saved me from fatigue at the end of the evening, also saved me many dollars in fuel costs.
Hopefully they’ll restore it someday
I actually saw in the local news that FrontRunner is planning on adding Sunday service sometime in the next 10 years. Not exactly very soon, but it is exciting.
Great commuter rail maps!!! That looked like the result of quite a bit of editing time. I 100% screenshoted and saved them for reference.
0:00 I see you have experienced the glory that is the College Park MARC station. I expect a dedicated station review within the next few weeks ;)
SLC native here and the frontrunner is great. It runs on time and the trains are always clean
As a utahn, the title made me chuckle
i live in utah and i use to ride the front runner everyday to work and back i love that train more then anything great video on it
Your intro alone was so spot on, I’d even forgotten I clicked on this video because it’s talking about Frontrunner til you spoke on the Front runner. Nice 👍🏽
Awesome! Thank you!
There are plans in place for both Sunday service, and for electrification(and they are currently converting over to 'cleaner' diesel engines in the mean time). The reasons they give for both is the need for more double tracking, as Sunday is the day they do major maintenance since the majority of the route is on single track, and I haven't seen the exact reason on waiting until it's fully doubletracked for electrification, but I guess it'd be simpler? The doubletracking and electrification will also have the benefit of more periods of 15 minute frequency as well. Unfortunately this is still over a decade out between the continued need to get funds/construction, but over the next ten years there should be enough double track for the Sunday service and some express services. It's glacially slow but I'm hopeful it will continue moving forward as to some extent as some voices in the government have started pointing out there's no space to continue adding more lanes to the freeway, which is one reason for the support for the Frontrunner
Will they be getting Siemens chargers? Glad to hear a lot of improvements are on their way!
@@Thom-TRA I think right now they are looking at chargers but there was a great video done by
Christian Lenhart encouraging UTA to buy Stadler locomotives: ruclips.net/video/pq5pvAis6uk/видео.html&ab_channel=ChristianLenhart
@@Thom-TRA I haven't looked too far into if they've got planned rail stock for once it's electrified, though part of me would hope they get some trains from Stadler with it being right in town
On the topic of the cleaner diesel engine conversion: it is a slow effort to upgrade the existing locomotives up to EPA Tier 2. I believe they have to be sent off to Boise for that, so it isn't fast or cheap. No plans in the short term to get all new units though.
A quote from UTA spokesman Carl Arky “Double tracking is necessary for us to be able to perform our preventative maintenance requirements on our rail infrastructure, This work currently occurs on Sunday or during the short window of time between the end of Front Runner’s regular service at night and the start of service the next day (about 3 hours).” Currently, it only runs on Sundays during special events. When they get it double tracked, they can maintain one track while the other is being used for low density use.
Plans are in place to add Sunday service on frontrunner now!
I heard about that! Great future developments for FrontRunner
I moved to Utah 3 years ago for school and have been blown away at the quality of its public transit. Before I got a car I exclusively used the bus system to get around. I still use it every day to get to school. Additionally, I hate driving on I-15 and genuinely prefer to use the front runner when I want to go to Salt Lake. Lastly, almost every college in the state provides its students with a free UTA pass.
There's the Trinity Rail Express, Fort Worth to Dallas. It is all day but I don't know about weekends.
It runs on Saturdays,but it doesn't run on Sundays except for special events(state fair). The TRE Saturday headways are hourly in each direction, although that is better than pre 2016 Saturday schedules.
It's also the only railroad that uses the bombardier bilevels with level boarding. I think freight trains have clearance issues when the platforms are that high up.
Those dang freight trains…
In the DC context, one thing that surprised me is MARC's lack of service on the Brunswick line on weekends or in the middle of the weekdays. Harper's Ferry seems like quite a popular tourist spot and people might go out there by train. The best you can do right now is get there at 7pm and leave the next day at 6am.
As a Utahn I adore the front runner. I use to commute every day on it
But I wish america had more
That last sentence is a mood
I remember riding the Frontrunner when I was a kid, usually to North Temple. I loved their service and scenery. Very occasionally I ride Frontrunner if I ever have the time. I like how they use different signals and equipment that UP uses. From a railfan perspective the only problem I have with Frontrunner is that the whole line is a quiet zone, I really would like hearing their horns more if at least parts of the line wasn't a quiet zone.
The only other problem I think some will have with Frontrunner is that there was very limited service to Pleasant View since they shared with UP on that section of the route and had low ridership.
I honestly think Frontrunner is a very cool railroad they have a nice schedule and is easy to understand rather quickly, I definitely agree that Sunday service would be a better option even if its limited. Here and there I film them and some crews will honk which is nice. Cool video!
I actually rode the FrontRunner a few times and it's very convenient when you need to avoid the freeway and commuting hours. The FrontRunner has its own WiFi so those who need to work can pull out their laptops or tablets and do it while on the way to a business meeting or a conference. Regarding the diesel: it was like that when it first opened.
Also most churches are usually on Sundays so you don't have many commuters or people using them. Especially when there's churches and chapels on almost every other street corner and street.
Utah native, can’t help but notice that you left UVX bus route in Orem station and Provo central. I use it a bit to get to places in BYU and Provo in general. I will add that one flaw of front runner is if you live in places like cedar valley or Spanish fork its a bit hard to get to stations as there isnt many buses running in those areas
As I student, I LOVE the frontrunner. Several if not all of the universities nearby provide free transit passes which makes the frontrunner a really attractive option
I love free student passes
As a salt lake city local, I really can't disagree with anything said here. Any questions, or comments, I'm happy to answer. I'm a local railfan, and ride almost daily.
I’m glad I captured it well! I’m working on my TRAX video soon so if I have any questions, I’ll know where to ask!
Never took Frontrunner but it is a system that's gaining popularity. Caltrain is also available all day. There are some tracks on the C-train that are owned 100% of the system.
Great video on the front runner and looking forward to seeing another video on the light-rail system of uta
Thanks!
@@Thom-TRA I am also looking forward to your next video about Trax! Hope you have a section that talks about possible expansion and what you would reccomend.
Utah resident here. The front runner and the trax (the street cars in salt lake) during a Christmas event called temple square Christmas lights are absolutely packed and is actually quite fast because it avoids traffic and is also nice because it is very hard to find parking there during the temple square event
I’d love to see that!
It's probably already been said, but, after riding frontrunner for a few years the biggest issue I've had with it is that most of the line is single-track. Therefore, if there is any sort of mechanical delay (which usually occur only in the morning when it is below freezing outside) or accident you can expect every train thereafter to be impacted. Wonderful video though!
i rode the front runner before its cars are clean (maybe not as much as the MP36PH-3C) and there is always trains and sometimes during special events on sundays they run but not much
Ive used front runner a handful of times, they are adding a station to my city in the next decade it sounds like.
I would use it more if:
1. 15 min intervals
2. Faster travel (driving is like 35% faster)
3. better connections in non-slc areas (work in lehi, but 3 miles from station. with a bike it wont be bad, but not always convenient in a very winter state)
A couple things here. I operate frontrunner, and i do want to say that the reason it’s generally slower than cars is because of track speed, where the max we can go is 79 mph, and often slower around bends, like in the jordan narrows, plus we have to stop at each station, so that’s why it’s slower lol. and for better connection to work, yeah, i’d love if UTA could expand bus and light rail better for things like this
I had to live up in Clearfield for a time for roughly a year. FrontRunner was the only reason I was able to regularly visit family down in Salt Lake. It was also kind of a highlight- purely because I'm always happy to take a train anywhere! =D
Love the attitude!
Never been so early without being subbed
Impressive
They are working on changing Frontrunner over to electric. In fact, the plan is to get brand new trains to replace the gasoline powered ones in the next 5 years.
They also do occasionally have Sunday service. Twice a year in the first Sunday of April and first Sunday of October.
There's also talks about expanding the line up to Logan, they just need to decide the best way to keep the line safely cleared in the canyon they would go through and decide where to lay the tracks. They also are working on funding for it, since it would be costly.
They also have a group pass for only $15 that's good for all day service, round trip, and you can use it to switch to the lightrail service called Trax as well for up to 4 people.
Exciting stuff!
Honestly I'm not here to say PATH is not commuter rail, because it runs ghastly 15 minute headways for huge stretches on weekdays, asinine limited service on weekends, and half-hour headways for an embarrassingly large number of hours each week. So being legally classified as a commuter service isn't just an artifact of its origins, or the fact it has direct track connections to the NEC. It's actually the only lens you can view PATH through that makes it seem pretty good. As rapid transit, it's pretty craptacular, but compared to a lot of commuter services it's awesome (and its weird little trains are then suddenly quirky and fun).
Heads up, I’m living @ one of the universities here in Ogden - there’s a service called the OGX “Ogden express.” You’d imagine it’d be another rail system, however sadly it isn’t.
The OGX is a express bus line that operates very similarly to the light rail system you road, the “Trax” city trains.
The OGX is an express bus line that has both shared and dedicated bus roads/pathways that make “express” travel decently possible through the city of Ogden - and sick side note, the express line will be FREE for the next 2 years (it originally was 3, but 1 year has already gone by since it’s introduction.
The OGX has a start from the Frontrunner’s “Ogden Central station,” connecting you almost instantly from the station platform and onto the bus stop hut. Runs about every 10-15 minutes on weekdays, and every 30 minutes on weekends I believe
( YES it has Sunday service
( AND ALSO YES the bus is ELECTRIC!
I knew the OGX existed but I didn’t realize it was electric!
When I worked in Salt Lake City I took Frontrunner from Orem to Draper then Trax to Salt Lake. It was way faster than driving in rush hour traffic.
As a Utahn, it’s fantastic. You nailed it.
Thanks!
I use the FrontRunner when I go up to Salt Lake City (and sometimes Ogden) from Provo, there's even rumors of expansion south to Springville, Spanish Fork and Payson, Utah.
When the Inland Empire/Orange County line on the Metrolink in Southern California first opened (the one you mentioned not going to Los Angeles itself), they made a big deal about how it was the first suburb to suburb commuter line in the country. It's not really that, in that it's still mostly for people who live in the IE and work in the OC, with almost no commuter traffic the other way.
Another weird line is the Perris/91 line. It starts way out in the desert in Perris, with most of the people taking it in that section working in downtown Riverside, but then it continues down the IE/OC route, but heading north to downtown Los Angeles instead job centers like Irvine like the IE/OC line does. And there is also a different, quicker, line from Riverside to Los Angeles-but that doesn't stop in places like La Sierra and Corona.
I love the frontrunner and often use it to get to work or visit family
In addition, not shown on the front runner schedule are the busses. Most of the fronter stations have a pretty decent bus system at the train station, that really helps and makes them viable options. Provo and Orem statuons work great
All operators of Bombardier double deck cars should get the new IX cab car like those on Go and Sounder
Plus, students get to ride all Utah public transportation for free! Makes it easy to jump on the train with friends for a day trip.
All students do? That’s great!
Wish they bothered to expand the rail more than just to Payson, UTA needs to restore the rail to Pleasant View and expand further north to Cache Valley and connect the population there. That would benefit a lot of the college students that don't have cars, and alleviate a lot of the traffic through Sardine Canyon and the area in general.
They do have tentative plans in the future to expand back up to pleasant view and eventually up to brigham city as well, though it’s definitely very tentative and would be years down the line
The thing I think is why sunday is a no ride day, is because since all the other stores "many" not all are closed they don't have enough ridership.
It actually has to do with track maintenance I believe
I love the frontrunner!!!!!! It's so nice and convenient.
You bring up some good points. There’s a few ways to describe “commuter” rail in my mind: schedule (which you Focused on), geography (path & station frequency) & alignment type.
For most of the U.S., I think passenger rail that doesn’t connect multiple large or distant communities is commuter-oriented, even if with different setups. Most rail networks are radial for bringing passengers into the CBD for connections anywhere else as opposed to our highway/freeway network being more grid & loop for connecting outside the central city. The schedules might allow for more movement outside peak hours but it’s still oriented to people commuting for work, & secondarily for major events.
I would say that only exclusive alignments should be considered commuter, if we want to use that term. In Denver, we actually segregated our rail network by geography (north is heavy rail & south is light rail), providing longer service hours on light rail & more station density, but it’s all still focused on people with cars who can choose to park for free at a station & ride into the central city.
As a student the Forntrunner is great because it is free for students with a valid student ID. This also transfers over to several city buses and local train
I wish more transit here was free for students. I’d never come home lol
Thanks for sharing this, these do seem to be good bones in the least likely of places. It'd be amazig if they could get Overhead catenary with FLIRTS or KISSes for that 15-minute service given the fact Stadler is right by Salt Lake City. And great point they need get some trains running Sunday, but it's pretty amazing this commuter rail system provides better commuter/regional rail service than in some larger North America cities with well known metro networks like WMATA Metorail or Vancouver Skytrain .
The funny thing with WMATA is that it sort of straddles the needs of both regional rail and an urban metro. When I was first getting into learning about public transit I was confused why cities needed anything but a Metro because that was my DC/MD experience. We love it (and curse it at times) but it shapes our expectation of transit because 95% of transit users (much less the general public) think metrorail only.
Now I definitely understand the benefits, but it's funny to me how the Silver Line travels 36 miles outside from DC's center. No complaints with what's built, but at that distance other modes are useful too. Instead of wanting to extend the Red Line to Clarksburg or the Green Line to Laurel BWI as you sometimes see on transit wishlist maps, we should have a direct branch of MARC spurring off from Gaithersburg straight up I-270 to Clarksburg, Urbana, and Frederick. And so on.
Living here its always been great for concerts or shows in SLC or Ogden. The stations right in Ogden's downtown where everything happens and SLC's stations so well connected and pretty close to the major concert venues as well. Especially because of Utah's especially punitive and harsh on drinking and DUI's it's great to have that option.
Aside from that most my jobs haven't been quite close enough to transit lines. I did have one where I boarded downhill from the station to get to work which made for a nice and easy morning commute into the industrial district.
I have noticed mostly apartment complexes popping up in every possible empty lot near the stations. So land use is going about what you'd expect of it in the less dense areas.
I could go on about our fast growing population here, housing costs, and how our car centric transit infrastructure is just another reason things are so expensive. It all takes up so much space, valuable space here. Though all that doesnt entirely fit here, it's just another reason trains are awesome.
On sunday service: Are stores opened on Sunday or is everyone getting day off? In Qu.bec, we had sunday store closures until the 1980s, so before that, there was much less incentive to travel into town on Sunday to go shopping (or working at a ship that was open).
It varies. A lot of big chains are open, but have strongly reduced demand. Most smaller businesses are typically closed.
The reason Frontrunner is closed is so the workers can get a day off. That said, Frontrunner really should be at least partially automated so it can run on Sundays without requiring workers.
@@Treviisolion It is not so workers get a day off. UTA track maintenance crew is out on the mainline on Sundays. It's a lot of track and not a lot of time to keep it in shape.
Ride Austin’s cap metro rail it has hourly service off peak and half hourly service at peak times. It even runs later in Saturdays but not on Sundays😢
Hey, at least the cars aren't silver 😄and there is decent WiFi. Other than no Sunday service, the other flaw of Frontrunner is that most of it is single tracked right now, so one minor breakdown can trigger cascading delays on the entire line. The Sunday service thing also frustratingly comes down to single tracking, because the maintenance crew has to be out on the line fixing issues, which creates bottlenecks that can't be passed. Other UTA services still run on Sunday. There is funding from the state and fed in place for double tracking now, but it is still in the engineering and right-of-way acquisition phase and won't be complete until 2029-ish. Electrification is in the very long term plan, but has to happen after double tracking.
I always do a little happy dance when I see an American train that actually has color.
I rode it too. More frequent and cheaper than some NJ Transit lines. Comes with outlets and wifi also.
Also, the conductors there are friendly
I noticed a lot of people in SLC were super friendly
@@Thom-TRA Lot of people there are friendly there LDS so there great people, I had relatives and cousin that lives in Salt Lake City.
@@Perich29idk about this one, I work as a frontrunner engineer/conductor and most of the other conductors/engineers and train hosts aren’t LDS, so it’s not religion, most people are just nice in general lol
As a Utahn, my biggest beef with Frontrunner is, by and large, you still need a car to use it; especially if you don't live in the SLC metro area. With the current fare system, driving into downtown, even after paying for parking, is still a little more economical, with the added benefit of not being tied to a departure schedule.
I rode trax all through high school before i got my license and after i bought my first shitbox and when I served at the church office building afterwards. Very convenient, but pre covid, sanitation and security were kind of lacking. I've noticed post Covid it's been improved.
That’s good that it’s improved
You forgot Austin’s CapMetro rail!!!!!. You need to come and ride it
Front runner service is great generally pretty clean. Theres some things holding it back from being fantastic. But for what it is when I go out to SLC on the weekends I take frontrunner. The money I save I spend at local businesses instead of international conglomerates. Plus the fact I can travel so far and not have to consider traffic. Then use the trax rails in the city. I rarely walk more then 4 blocks to any of my destinations in the 60 miles It takes me to get to slc.
So there is an Air show at Hill Air Force base this weekend, and they will have Sunday service for that event as it is a huge ridership day.
That’s awesome! A benefit of owning your own track is you can be flexible for stuff like that
You should look for their long-term plans for frontrunner. One of them is electrification and up to 110 mph in the long term one
I’m thinking about making a follow up on this video. Their plans look great!
Local utahn i work at the amusment park (lagoon) and i take the front runner its about an 50 minutes door to door and about 40 minutes on thebtrain driving is anywhere from 30-60 minutes.
In the defense of VRE/Virginia, at least they have a plan to eventually have weekend service, as well as more Amtrak trains from DC to Roanoke/Richmond/Newport News/Norfolk when the new Long Bridge opens.
I love the front runner and am excited about the talk of expanding it. It is crazy to me they don’t have Sunday service especially with the large religious gatherings like in the beginning of April that completely shut down the roads.
A whole video on Frontrunner boggles my mind, but this is really cool! I haven't been able to use it because of one of its primary weaknesses: unless you are living and working on the East Side of the tracks, there's not enough public transit infrastructure to make a train ride feasible or a faster commute than driving. Utah is informally divided into "East" and "West," where the East side (closest to the Wasatch mountains) tend to feature richer neighborhoods and walk-in businesses, while the "West" side has a more poor housing reputation. Because so much of the west side of the tracks is residential, the public transit is not great, which limits the usefulness of Frontrunner. I'm hoping this will change in the future, because we're in a weird expansion phase where new communities are popping up on the west side of the state. Unfortunately, not even the car traffic infrastructure is in place yet to help alleviate the traffic going to and from the west side of Utah (we're getting new highways and freeways in two years), so it will take quite a few years to catch up.
The biggest population that can really take advantage of Utah's public transit, especially Frontrunner, is the student population. This has only improved with Provo's university bus line, which goes from the Provo Frontrunner station all the way to UVU campus. Provo is a college town but also has a lot of students from out of state/country because of BYU, the Mormon university. With the parking situation in Provo being terrible, the bus system works perfectly with Frontrunner, and most student IDs for the universities also act as Frontrunner and bus passes, meaning students can commute for free. It's a good system that I only hope catches on to the rest of the state and improves over time.
This is RUclips, there are whole videos on everything!
I thought about taking the Frontrunner to work, but I was surprised to learn that would be 4× more expensive than just using my car. I think it only makes sense if you dont have a car
I wonder why it was that expensive
Sorry, not 4× but 2×. I spend about $42 on gas per month driving to and from work. The monthly pass is $85
As a member of LDS,that could be true.
Toronto and surrounding areas have a great commuter system call GO transit which use the Canadian built Bombaridier bi lever trains used all over north america including the ones in Salt Lake CIty...
Are you going to do any videos on MARC? I've always wondered how MARC held up compared to other commuter rail. Great video! I love the in depth explanations that you do.
I've done a video about MARC about a year ago, but living in DC they will definitely be featured often in the future!
Have you heard anything about the news coming out of Raleigh NC leaders allegeding that the FTA isn't interested in funding commuter rail anymore. The GoTriangle proposal isn't quite at this level of investment and service, but would have been closer than say, Seattle Sounder of Metra Heritage corridor
I just read about it. It went from light rail to commuter rail to now maybe BRT. Depressing. A win for the NIMBYs, from the look of it.
I thought I saw you in person outside the Amshack (Amtrak shack)
Could be
Our second grade took the front runner instead of the bus for our field trip.
I bet he had a blast
So I’m not a representative of UTA. However I am an engineer for UTA and I do have an answer for the no service on Sundays. That’s the day we do a lot of our more intensive work along the rails since only about 16% of our track is double track. With the, hopeful, expansion of double track to 25% Sunday service may be a thing eventually but that’s something they haven’t told us about yet
Thanks!
The real problem with it is that UTA considers Frontrunner a "premium" service, and charges for tickets per station passed
I wonder what it costs them to maintain and operate it versus TRAX