and that's basically what i said lol. i'm super lucky for sure, but i spent 10 years devoted to the sport, without any success, before i had any sponsors.
Good stuff. I love "hacking" the cost of race bikes. I bought a used 2018 Tarmac SL6 with eTap for $2215, swapped the wheels from my old bike (ENVE SES 5.6 that I've trained/raced on for over 5 years, so that investment has more than paid off) and created a legit road rocket for less than the cost of the standard SL7 frameset. While I'm not competing in Pro 1/2 races, it has helped me reach occasional Cat 3 glory. Even better is hitting Strava PR's in my 50th year of life (beating times I set as a racer when I was 5-15 years younger RULES)
@@AndrewCJXing It was in the "before times" (before supply chain issues) and it's rim brake (everyone wants disc) but it was a really good deal and has been a phenomenal race bike
@@robthompson6674 Oh I miss that time so much. But anyway, sl6 rim for 1 grand and eTap for another grand either it's force or red, is simply a no-brainer deal. Could you share some pictures of the bike?
They're awesome bikes and standard issue for crit racers. An Allez Sprint with Rival AXS and Winspace Hypers is probably the best, fastest race bike for the money you're gonna find.
I think the allez sprint is a great choice, especially for not very technical or hilly crits. pair it with fast wheels/tires and that's a very capable setup.
@@bernardo9202FYI, Merida can't be sold in USA. They are the best value mainstream brand here in Australia last time I checked. If I was to buy new i would probably get a Reacto if there was sufficient tyre clearance.
@@richardggeorge yeah i know because of the deal with specialized whey yhey bought 20%. I was with same though, still looking for the domane or the cx trek released some time ago
Thank you Jeff for the honesty. For those questioning the accuracy - what, you think suddenly your 'improvements' are going to yield differences that can justify (and let's all remind ourselves here...) a $5,000 difference?! I can't even conceive of a performance increase that could justify that. PLEASE, let's all quit this delusion that we're getting 'value for money' from the bike industry. You're paying $5,000 for a decal. If that's how much you value 'street credibility', then knock yourselves out, but stop with the post hoc justification based on zero measurable value. They're skinning us alive and we're lapping it up like thirsty puppies [/mixedcliches], and so long as we do, they'll keep jacking the prices up every year for their "7% more aero performance" marketing claims.
it's lighter and comes with a faster wheel/tire setup, so the difference isn't nothing. if you're at the absolute peak of training/fitness, justifying the extra $$ might make sense. I hope my video makes that clear so people make informed purchase decisions.
@@dutypaidrock What you seem to neglect is that $2,500 isn't worth the same to everyone. For some people it is literally pocket money, while others might need a long long time to save that up. So yeah, I think if you have to compromise any other aspect of your life to buy the $5000 bike frame (!) over one with much better value, it's not worth it at all.
Great video Jeff, just 2 things to improve on for the next tests: 1. Weight yourself before every run and make sure to weight the same (adjust with water). The body weight difference between runs due to sweat is usually a LOT more than you think (1lb+) 2. The difference in power between runs look small, but 3w on 300w is already a 1% difference. So you should try to take it into account in your conclusions, or try to make them exactly the same by looking at a "lap power" field in you garmin and adjunting throughout the run. I did a similar test in a video but with different PSI on the wheels, and had to take into account all these "small" details for the test to really be relevant.
Top end bikes from 5 years ago is also a great alternative. Last year I sold my S-Works SL7 to get a Rim brake supersix. Never been happier! Wallet is so much heavier though :P
Love the segment, super valuable for a casual rider like me to make an evidence-based decision about how much money to spend on a road bike. Keep them coming!
And the white sl7 pro to me definitely looks a lot cleaner, the paint on the sworks sure looks nice but a clean white bike is just chef's kiss worthy. And mind if I ask, but is the 2000$ racebike/setup video still coming? Love the content!
SL7 pro just has this heavy groupset and this is the main reason it's loosing time uphill, otherwise it's nearly the same as the s-works model. Put a dura ace on it and I'm sure there will be no difference.
I upgraded my ride to a Bianchi Oltre XR4 with all the DuraAce and Ceramicspeed goodies. I don't race, but I enjoy the livelier acceleration and (strangely) reduced harshness. I'd say that the bike subjectively "feels" like 10-15% better than what I'd had, but at double the cost. As a MAMIL, however, I'm okay with that. It's very subjective, but it works if it's worth it for you.
The more people like yourself able to share info with a guy like myself who is currently unable is only going to help push things further farther and faster. Thanks.
Thanks Jeff for the video. This is exactly why I got the SL7 Pro (Di2) instead of the S-Works for $5000 more. I am not good enough to benefit from the 1-2% benefits and don't care about the S-Works badge on the frame to make me feel fast.
That was awesome! I just got my Favero Electronics Assioma Duo-Shi in yesterday and now I can finally train with power. Keep up the good work. You're videos are awesome!
Nice info/video. I would have liked to see what the SWorks mounted with the SL7 wheels would reveal. I’d also like to see what a neutral low/mid profile wheelset on both bike would show weight, segment times and subjective “feel” of the two bikes.
Pretty much confirms the conventional wisdom: a. Weight savings are for climbers (and weenies); and b. to paraphrase Mars Blackmon: "It's the wheels, Money! It's the wheels!" Thanks, Jeff!
Nice content that clearly illustrates the law of diminishing returns when it comes to barrister price bikes and the importance of decent hoops and rubber and how they are such a big factor in overall performance.
I can’t really tell the difference between the two, except for the paint job. They both look like pretty top end bikes anyway. I wouldn’t be riding the more expensive bike in crits as we all know accidents happen and I’d cry if my best bike got destroyed. Always race a bike that you can crash and can afford to replace if it breaks.
Not sure if you’ve done this before-would love to hear you thoughts and analysis on the latest tire trends and get your thoughts on how they impact speed and climbing. I’m thinking like tubeless vs. super light clincher/latex tubes setup, or something along those lines. I know there’s a lot of “tech” vlogs out there, but your real world experience would be really cool to see here!
I love how his bikes worth more than his car. This is why the Sprint Allez is a Champ of a bike for crits. The weight is negligible, but put on some fast wheels on a $1500 frame and you got a bike as fast or even faster than the sl7. And if you do crash.. its an aluminum bike that cost $1500 and not a $$ carbon bike.
I agree 100%, for crits, there are 2 possibilities and they depend on the course. If the course requires hard braking and sprinting out of corners, you want the lightest wheels possible. On the other hand, if you can take good lines in the corners and not have to sprint out of them, you want the most aero wheels possible. Most everywhere, except steep hills where you are going less than 20 Km/h, aero trumps weight every time - up to a certain point - it is not worth it to spend to save less than 1 Kg on a bike with no other advantages (exemples: swapping all the steel screws for titanium screws or changing thru-axles for lighter ones).
For the difference of $5,000, the time difference is not big enough. Especially for general riders like me who does not participate in racing will not make sense at all to buy the S-Works. However, to ride the S-Works is just cool. The big question is I wonder why Specialized decided to put $5,000 price difference? I wonder if they were trying to push the sales on PRO model versus the S-Works?
I kinda have the same problem, don’t know which bike to ride; it’s either my Pinarello F with shimano 12 speed and DT Swiss wheels or my Colnago V3RS with Campy groupset and Campy wheels. I promise they both exist, they are in my garage, in my apartment
Definitely like this content Jeff! Would love to see an off season training/couch to crit series where you instruct a newer cyclist on off-season workouts on the bike and in the gym too!
@@NorCalCycling oh yea I’ve watched the whole series already! Wondering if you plan on doing something similar but for the off-season prep for next years race season
Most cycling is about the look and sensation. If it makes you want to go out and ride, get it. If you're after some dubious claims about extra speed, just get a $150 road bike at a garage sale where you'll get the best value. With that said, I got a Winspace, and I'm confident that my T1500 frame is better than any S-Works bike lol
Definitely one of your more scientific videos. I agree with everything you said...but have one question/point. The S-Works excels at uphill because of the 2+ lbs lighter weight. You did a constant power test. If you are doing a crit, though, it's constant accelerations - whether out of tight turns or attacking. Over the course of an hour or more of accelerating, don't you think your legs would thank you for those 2+ lbs less? Don't you think (if there was a way to test) there may be some statistical difference? Thanks for the vids.
It's a good point. When you are accelerating/decelerating, the power cost to maintain a given average speed scales with the cube of the speed, just like the relation everybody knows for aerodynamic drag. The difference is that the proportionality constant is the total mass of the bike and rider, rather than the total "CdA" of the bike and rider for air resistance.
I guess technically it would be faster, lighter always would be, even if it is minute. But that's like saying, can you accelerate noticeably faster after having a shit, which is obviously ridiculous. It's also so tiny that it makes the 5k extra even more laughable.
Great video. This is the content bike lovers worldwide need, so we stop unnecessarily handing over all our money to these bike manufacturers due to their marketing crap.
I think people who purchase an S-works know damn well there's no discernable different between an S-works and the 2nd tier model. You just can't put a price on pride of ownership.
I'd like to see the difference in an aero bike vs. a "light" non aero bike when it comes to riding within a bunch and then in a field sprint. The vast majority of races end in a field sprint and most people aren't going to be riding off the front solo to get all of the aero benefits (x-seconds faster over 40k and such) . Not sure how you'd do that kind of test.
Good question. Sounds like the sprint is the important part of that question. A sprint test of light bike vs. aero bike would be very interesting... I would bet money the aero bike wins. The acceleration would favor lightweight, but high speed favors aero and as speed goes up aero drag is squared. Aero is also stiffer, which sprinters prefer.
@@wbhandy I would think the aero bike would be quicker, and even a fraction of a speed bump would be worth it in a drag race. I doubt acceleration from an already high speed would really benefit too much from the low weight bike. I think aero benefit in the group is interesting because as a pure sprinter I'm looking to do as little as possible until the last lap. If I could be a good number of watts lower over the course of a race it should make me fresher at crunch time.
How can you neglect to mention that the input difference was 3 watts which is about 1%. That may seem insignificant but when the time differences are only 2.4% apart, you can see how that matters
Thx Jeff. I’ve contemplating this question for awhile. This vlog absolutely answered all my questions made it clear to me. By the way, 5k difference in price in USD is more like 7k or 8k in CAD$ for me. Cheers and many thx on a great vlog. More content like this is greatly appreciated 👍😃
🧐 2.4% or 1.1% over a mere 3.8 miles? That's utterly unbelievable. I suspect on a 100, as the pace degrades the gap would grow. The $5k is easily worth it given you found any difference at all. S-Works is a no-brainer. Great test.
How about the S-Works Aethos vs the S-Works SL7. Will be a good side-by-side on both the flats and climbs. Have we all been punked by the aero movement only to now find out that round tubes and traditional appearance is just as good/fast?
Weight is a factor whenever, and only, when acceleration is involved. Acceleration can come from gravity (hill climbing) or increasing velocity (accelerating out of a corner in a crit). So, yes, in a straight line on level ground, the frame (and therefore weight) won't make any difference. However, your test should have covered increasing velocity to accurately predict the difference the two frames would make for a crit rider (perhaps a series of intervals).
greetings, why do they advertise only S-Works as a super light and fast bike for all trails from flat to uphill and downhill when we also have Pinarello, Colnago and Cervelo. and one more question, which of them is the most comfortable for long drives
I don't like Specialized as a company, mostly because of the pricing.... but the design and the performance speak for themselves and that's why I've ordered my Allez Sprint frameset.
I own the allez sprint 1x and I love it. But since I installed a quarq pm I’m stuck with an fsa chainring that drops the chain. Now I focus on chain drops and my 1x seems antiquated. Falling outta love with my 1x.
I’m just a beginner rider doing this for fun and fitness and i’m smashing segments with my Base Allez. If you put me on a S-Works the only difference would be I could flex like polar bear outside a Morgan Hill coffee shop lol
Random thought, but surely you don't just leave the second bike out by your car while you're riding the first one right? And if you do put it back on the rack, is it locked?
Why do you think the CLX wheels are so much faster? From the looks of it the difference is: higher spoke count up front, round spokes, higher weight, slower tire. If we disregard the tire, can the weight of the wheels really make that much of a difference?
I really enjoyed the video (which applies to all of your vids) and fully agree with your conclusion. Great job. I also like how you store your bikes. Is this a Thule rack from which you picked the SL7?
Seeing Jeff's arms with the long-sleeved kit feels so weird since it looks bread stick thin in the car shot but after watching all the Alviso videos I know how beefed it actually looks from the chest cam.
what wheel set would you recommend on 22/23? I'm between Enve ses 6.7 or DT Swiss arc 1100 or the Roval Rapide on the S-works build (the ones you ride pretty much) Thanks in advance, great video and editing.
I've always thought that best bang for buck is going from aluminum to big brand budget carbon frames and then upgrading wheels. The marginal gains going from base carbon to top of line is negligible
I guess those percentages might make a difference if you're Pogacar or Roglic. Reason regular folks buy S-Works is same reason they buy designer clothes, for the bragging rights, ego, confidence boost. I've over-reached and owned a bunch in the past when showing off was important. Now I can easily afford them but I'm too old to care lol, so choose not to buy them (ride Pro versions of Roubaix and Stumpjumper Evo). Good video.
Very good video. It is the same piece of advice that Pedro Delgado sais on Spanish TV many years ago. So you have confirmed the same thing than a former TdF winner. Btw I had followed his piece of advice.... and now yours. Thank you.
I agree in general. Alwasy get second tier bike if you're not sponsored. Expert or Pro instead of S-Works. If I may suggest, please use metric weights as well as most of the world is using them instead of funny ounces, gallons and elbows. Top wheels are overrated too. Don't get Roval CLX. Get CL. 2 watts difference.
But then... wouldn't it make even more sense to go back to a Venge ? (One from the last generation only, as these had pretty much same level of integration at the cockpit, previous ones would lose too much aero points for cables sticking out i guess)
It's been proven that the faster bike is the one with tan side walls
And gold chain adds 5 Watts!
False… it’s the red bike. Always the red bike.
They're called "dick skins".
@@ruffrydazz2032 😂
Aligned valve stem to logo adds another 5% of power as well.
This is basically what I heard: "If I crash, it isn't my bike". Man I need a sponsor.
and that's basically what i said lol. i'm super lucky for sure, but i spent 10 years devoted to the sport, without any success, before i had any sponsors.
@@NorCalCycling Jeff, what is your occupation?
@@NorCalCycling I'm not hating. I'm totally envious of your abilities and both bikes.
I heard i'm gonna be winning crits. wow!
@@geraldtone5914 he's a freaking scientist. Fact. And he actually looks like Tony Stark! Haha
This is the video we all wanted and no one else "in the industry" will make. Thanks!
Good stuff. I love "hacking" the cost of race bikes. I bought a used 2018 Tarmac SL6 with eTap for $2215, swapped the wheels from my old bike (ENVE SES 5.6 that I've trained/raced on for over 5 years, so that investment has more than paid off) and created a legit road rocket for less than the cost of the standard SL7 frameset. While I'm not competing in Pro 1/2 races, it has helped me reach occasional Cat 3 glory. Even better is hitting Strava PR's in my 50th year of life (beating times I set as a racer when I was 5-15 years younger RULES)
wow, that’s an amazing deal for a 2018 sl6 with etap.
@@AndrewCJXing It was in the "before times" (before supply chain issues) and it's rim brake (everyone wants disc) but it was a really good deal and has been a phenomenal race bike
@@robthompson6674 Oh I miss that time so much. But anyway, sl6 rim for 1 grand and eTap for another grand either it's force or red, is simply a no-brainer deal. Could you share some pictures of the bike?
@@AndrewCJXing
No clue how to attach an image to a reply on RUclips. Sorry.
U got me into cycling and now I cycle every day
Enter the Allez Sprint, relatively cheap frame, rigid enough and ideal for crits. Fair test. Would like to see you get your hands on one
They're awesome bikes and standard issue for crit racers. An Allez Sprint with Rival AXS and Winspace Hypers is probably the best, fastest race bike for the money you're gonna find.
isnt the merida reacto or scultura a better option? for a first road bike?
I think the allez sprint is a great choice, especially for not very technical or hilly crits. pair it with fast wheels/tires and that's a very capable setup.
@@bernardo9202FYI, Merida can't be sold in USA. They are the best value mainstream brand here in Australia last time I checked. If I was to buy new i would probably get a Reacto if there was sufficient tyre clearance.
@@richardggeorge yeah i know because of the deal with specialized whey yhey bought 20%.
I was with same though, still looking for the domane or the cx trek released some time ago
Thank you Jeff for the honesty. For those questioning the accuracy - what, you think suddenly your 'improvements' are going to yield differences that can justify (and let's all remind ourselves here...) a $5,000 difference?! I can't even conceive of a performance increase that could justify that.
PLEASE, let's all quit this delusion that we're getting 'value for money' from the bike industry. You're paying $5,000 for a decal. If that's how much you value 'street credibility', then knock yourselves out, but stop with the post hoc justification based on zero measurable value. They're skinning us alive and we're lapping it up like thirsty puppies [/mixedcliches], and so long as we do, they'll keep jacking the prices up every year for their "7% more aero performance" marketing claims.
I mean, it was 2 pounds lighter. That ain't nothing. It's not significant for most people, but not nothing.
it's lighter and comes with a faster wheel/tire setup, so the difference isn't nothing. if you're at the absolute peak of training/fitness, justifying the extra $$ might make sense. I hope my video makes that clear so people make informed purchase decisions.
@@thomasvmanning $2,500 per lb. Just... no.
" a $5,000 difference?! I can't even conceive of a performance increase that could justify that."
...EPO, HGH, and steroids have entered the chat....
@@dutypaidrock What you seem to neglect is that $2,500 isn't worth the same to everyone. For some people it is literally pocket money, while others might need a long long time to save that up. So yeah, I think if you have to compromise any other aspect of your life to buy the $5000 bike frame (!) over one with much better value, it's not worth it at all.
I'm no A/V geek but I feel like editing all this takes a long time. At least to do it well like you've done here. Great content. Thanks.
Much appreciated!
Please do 32c tires vs 25c tires, with a variety of pressures on the same course!
Great video Jeff, just 2 things to improve on for the next tests:
1. Weight yourself before every run and make sure to weight the same (adjust with water). The body weight difference between runs due to sweat is usually a LOT more than you think (1lb+)
2. The difference in power between runs look small, but 3w on 300w is already a 1% difference. So you should try to take it into account in your conclusions, or try to make them exactly the same by looking at a "lap power" field in you garmin and adjunting throughout the run.
I did a similar test in a video but with different PSI on the wheels, and had to take into account all these "small" details for the test to really be relevant.
At the end of the day, the results would still be the same. Small differences for an extra 5000$.
Top end bikes from 5 years ago is also a great alternative. Last year I sold my S-Works SL7 to get a Rim brake supersix. Never been happier! Wallet is so much heavier though :P
Love the segment, super valuable for a casual rider like me to make an evidence-based decision about how much money to spend on a road bike. Keep them coming!
And the white sl7 pro to me definitely looks a lot cleaner, the paint on the sworks sure looks nice but a clean white bike is just chef's kiss worthy. And mind if I ask, but is the 2000$ racebike/setup video still coming? Love the content!
yes, it's coming
I usually would prefer the Sworks. But I went with the pro this time because the white of the pro just, imo, looked so much better
@@NorCalCycling
I was told by Joe Bell a custom frame painter that white bikes are heavier. It takes more paint to cover the frame.
SL7 pro just has this heavy groupset and this is the main reason it's loosing time uphill, otherwise it's nearly the same as the s-works model. Put a dura ace on it and I'm sure there will be no difference.
I upgraded my ride to a Bianchi Oltre XR4 with all the DuraAce and Ceramicspeed goodies. I don't race, but I enjoy the livelier acceleration and (strangely) reduced harshness. I'd say that the bike subjectively "feels" like 10-15% better than what I'd had, but at double the cost. As a MAMIL, however, I'm okay with that. It's very subjective, but it works if it's worth it for you.
One of my favorite RUclips channels. Seems like a real nice guy. Thanks for all the cool racing videos !
The more people like yourself able to share info with a guy like myself who is currently unable is only going to help push things further farther and faster. Thanks.
Thanks Jeff for the video. This is exactly why I got the SL7 Pro (Di2) instead of the S-Works for $5000 more. I am not good enough to benefit from the 1-2% benefits and don't care about the S-Works badge on the frame to make me feel fast.
True. Count me in. Still I always buy S-Works, just to make sure it is definitely me who failed, not the bike.
Maybe on climbing it’s not just 1 to 2 percent difference. I’ll buy the sworks.
This is so much more enjoyable to watch than the GCN tests.
yes, without all the stupid pump track
You are welcome Jeff, enjoy giving you the pleasure do do what you want. :)
just rewatched this twice. Still one of my favorite videos on the tarmac differences
Thank you for sharing this. Been following you since you had around 100 followers. Which road was this? I also live in the Bay Area.
Thanks for your support from the beginning!! steven's canyon road to redwood gulch
Jeff: "On this miserable California winter day"
me: looks outside and sees a lasagna of ice, snow, and sand in central Canada :/
mmm lasagna
Yeah, why he drives a AWD car when there's no snow at all 🌨️
Yeah, we are lucky in California. Just today it was 26 C where I live
Love your videos man. Short, simple, concise, and fun. Just how all contents should be!
S-Works exists so that the price on the "Pro" seems reasonable
That was awesome! I just got my Favero Electronics Assioma Duo-Shi in yesterday and now I can finally train with power. Keep up the good work. You're videos are awesome!
I really enjoy these videos. Thanks for all your content Jeff. Really enjoyable and really educational content. Much respect and kudos to you man. 🤙🏻
Nice info/video. I would have liked to see what the SWorks mounted with the SL7 wheels would reveal. I’d also like to see what a neutral low/mid profile wheelset on both bike would show weight, segment times and subjective “feel” of the two bikes.
Recently, I saw the White Tarmac at Specialized Store and it looks really really amazing, I felt in love with it 😍.
Adding the music in now makes the videos super more pro. Love the video and the channel all the way from Auckland, New Zealand 🇳🇿
wheel setups are most important part of any bike, thats true in every discipline
So jealous of your Garage. So neat and organized for the videos.
Also, Your welcome?
Pretty much confirms the conventional wisdom: a. Weight savings are for climbers (and weenies); and b. to paraphrase Mars Blackmon: "It's the wheels, Money! It's the wheels!" Thanks, Jeff!
Nice content that clearly illustrates the law of diminishing returns when it comes to barrister price bikes and the importance of decent hoops and rubber and how they are such a big factor in overall performance.
I can’t really tell the difference between the two, except for the paint job. They both look like pretty top end bikes anyway. I wouldn’t be riding the more expensive bike in crits as we all know accidents happen and I’d cry if my best bike got destroyed. Always race a bike that you can crash and can afford to replace if it breaks.
Not sure if you’ve done this before-would love to hear you thoughts and analysis on the latest tire trends and get your thoughts on how they impact speed and climbing. I’m thinking like tubeless vs. super light clincher/latex tubes setup, or something along those lines. I know there’s a lot of “tech” vlogs out there, but your real world experience would be really cool to see here!
You name the hobby, diminishing returns are a thing. Cycling, photography, shooting, speakers/audiophile equipment, pens, watches, etc, etc.
Thank you Jeff, Perhaps your thoughts on SRAM red vs Force and why you like SRAM over Shimano
Jeff - I love this - do more of what you do. Just do what you find fun cuz that carries over to the content.
I love how his bikes worth more than his car. This is why the Sprint Allez is a Champ of a bike for crits. The weight is negligible, but put on some fast wheels on a $1500 frame and you got a bike as fast or even faster than the sl7. And if you do crash.. its an aluminum bike that cost $1500 and not a $$ carbon bike.
I agree 100%, for crits, there are 2 possibilities and they depend on the course. If the course requires hard braking and sprinting out of corners, you want the lightest wheels possible. On the other hand, if you can take good lines in the corners and not have to sprint out of them, you want the most aero wheels possible. Most everywhere, except steep hills where you are going less than 20 Km/h, aero trumps weight every time - up to a certain point - it is not worth it to spend to save less than 1 Kg on a bike with no other advantages (exemples: swapping all the steel screws for titanium screws or changing thru-axles for lighter ones).
For the difference of $5,000, the time difference is not big enough. Especially for general riders like me who does not participate in racing will not make sense at all to buy the S-Works. However, to ride the S-Works is just cool. The big question is I wonder why Specialized decided to put $5,000 price difference? I wonder if they were trying to push the sales on PRO model versus the S-Works?
I love your in-depth, unbiased videos. Please do a full length feature on the SL7 "recall".
What is the point of the "high end" race bike, if you don't race it?
love these jeff - they make me a better and more informed cyclist.
I kinda have the same problem, don’t know which bike to ride; it’s either my Pinarello F with shimano 12 speed and DT Swiss wheels or my Colnago V3RS with Campy groupset and Campy wheels.
I promise they both exist, they are in my garage, in my apartment
🤣
Fun video. Curious, what’s the brand of the bike rack you have in your garage? Thanks!
Definitely like this content Jeff! Would love to see an off season training/couch to crit series where you instruct a newer cyclist on off-season workouts on the bike and in the gym too!
I have a series called couch to crit! check the channel
@@NorCalCycling oh yea I’ve watched the whole series already! Wondering if you plan on doing something similar but for the off-season prep for next years race season
I never realize how much of an impact good wheels can have! Great video!
Yes and No right? Like it is an investment of $1k-$2k for a 1-3% improvement!
@@sebaslap you know what? I think you're right. I never really considered it that way.
what if you instead spend your money on a bike that has a properly engineered steerer tube
You are in the wrong comment section, close the door on your way out 👍
@@jcollins782 🤣🤣🤣
No thank you Jeff for providing the world with dope insights and strat!!
I come back to this video every time I’m itching to get a new bike. I’m riding a specialized tarmac sl7 w roval rapide clx wheel set.
Jeff, what's your take on the Assioma-Shi pedals? They're exactly what I am looking for but the wider Q-factor is a scare.
Just picked up the black SL7 Pro. Perfect price point for me. Very excited!
Most cycling is about the look and sensation. If it makes you want to go out and ride, get it. If you're after some dubious claims about extra speed, just get a $150 road bike at a garage sale where you'll get the best value. With that said, I got a Winspace, and I'm confident that my T1500 frame is better than any S-Works bike lol
Wait so did u just leave each bike out in the open everytime u went up the climb?!!
Definitely one of your more scientific videos. I agree with everything you said...but have one question/point. The S-Works excels at uphill because of the 2+ lbs lighter weight. You did a constant power test. If you are doing a crit, though, it's constant accelerations - whether out of tight turns or attacking. Over the course of an hour or more of accelerating, don't you think your legs would thank you for those 2+ lbs less? Don't you think (if there was a way to test) there may be some statistical difference? Thanks for the vids.
It's a good point. When you are accelerating/decelerating, the power cost to maintain a given average speed scales with the cube of the speed, just like the relation everybody knows for aerodynamic drag. The difference is that the proportionality constant is the total mass of the bike and rider, rather than the total "CdA" of the bike and rider for air resistance.
I guess technically it would be faster, lighter always would be, even if it is minute. But that's like saying, can you accelerate noticeably faster after having a shit, which is obviously ridiculous.
It's also so tiny that it makes the 5k extra even more laughable.
One guy replies discussing the cube of the speed; one guy replies discussing taking a shit.
@@sunshinecycling doesn't make it wrong though!
yes it's a factor for sure, but hard to test. I made a video specifically about weight where I discuss that topic in more detail
Great video. This is the content bike lovers worldwide need, so we stop unnecessarily handing over all our money to these bike manufacturers due to their marketing crap.
I think people who purchase an S-works know damn well there's no discernable different between an S-works and the 2nd tier model. You just can't put a price on pride of ownership.
I'd like to see the difference in an aero bike vs. a "light" non aero bike when it comes to riding within a bunch and then in a field sprint. The vast majority of races end in a field sprint and most people aren't going to be riding off the front solo to get all of the aero benefits (x-seconds faster over 40k and such) . Not sure how you'd do that kind of test.
Good question. Sounds like the sprint is the important part of that question. A sprint test of light bike vs. aero bike would be very interesting... I would bet money the aero bike wins. The acceleration would favor lightweight, but high speed favors aero and as speed goes up aero drag is squared. Aero is also stiffer, which sprinters prefer.
I don't know how i would test that either, but i tested "aero" vs "climb" models in a video that's on my channel
@@wbhandy I would think the aero bike would be quicker, and even a fraction of a speed bump would be worth it in a drag race. I doubt acceleration from an already high speed would really benefit too much from the low weight bike. I think aero benefit in the group is interesting because as a pure sprinter I'm looking to do as little as possible until the last lap. If I could be a good number of watts lower over the course of a race it should make me fresher at crunch time.
finally some product review and comparison! looking forward to see more!
How can you neglect to mention that the input difference was 3 watts which is about 1%. That may seem insignificant but when the time differences are only 2.4% apart, you can see how that matters
tks so much. love your videos as always, short and sharp, full of solid substance!
Thx Jeff. I’ve contemplating this question for awhile. This vlog absolutely answered all my questions made it clear to me. By the way, 5k difference in price in USD is more like 7k or 8k in CAD$ for me. Cheers and many thx on a great vlog. More content like this is greatly appreciated 👍😃
🧐 2.4% or 1.1% over a mere 3.8 miles? That's utterly unbelievable. I suspect on a 100, as the pace degrades the gap would grow. The $5k is easily worth it given you found any difference at all. S-Works is a no-brainer. Great test.
Jeff, could you do a test of the effect of tire pressures on the same course, please?!
How did you secure your bikes while you were doing individual runs? I hope you didn't just leave them propped against your car lol
I’m amazed you left your bike and camera out without it being taken whilst doing these runs!
What bikestand are you using in your garage?
standing rack i've had for years, got it at sports basement. it just leans against the wall
How about the S-Works Aethos vs the S-Works SL7. Will be a good side-by-side on both the flats and climbs. Have we all been punked by the aero movement only to now find out that round tubes and traditional appearance is just as good/fast?
Weight is a factor whenever, and only, when acceleration is involved. Acceleration can come from gravity (hill climbing) or increasing velocity (accelerating out of a corner in a crit). So, yes, in a straight line on level ground, the frame (and therefore weight) won't make any difference. However, your test should have covered increasing velocity to accurately predict the difference the two frames would make for a crit rider (perhaps a series of intervals).
1:30 - Jeff thanks me for watching/subscribing. Me (teary eyed): No, thank YOU, Jeff.
greetings, why do they advertise only S-Works as a super light and fast bike for all trails from flat to uphill and downhill when we also have Pinarello, Colnago and Cervelo. and one more question, which of them is the most comfortable for long drives
I don't like Specialized as a company, mostly because of the pricing.... but the design and the performance speak for themselves and that's why I've ordered my Allez Sprint frameset.
Why am I even here, I ride lowriders and wheelie bikes. But I love this channel 😂😂😂
I own the allez sprint 1x and I love it. But since I installed a quarq pm I’m stuck with an fsa chainring that drops the chain. Now I focus on chain drops and my 1x seems antiquated. Falling outta love with my 1x.
I’m just a beginner rider doing this for fun and fitness and i’m smashing segments with my Base Allez. If you put me on a S-Works the only difference would be I could flex like polar bear outside a Morgan Hill coffee shop lol
Random thought, but surely you don't just leave the second bike out by your car while you're riding the first one right? And if you do put it back on the rack, is it locked?
Another great Video Mr.Alviso
Why do you think the CLX wheels are so much faster? From the looks of it the difference is: higher spoke count up front, round spokes, higher weight, slower tire. If we disregard the tire, can the weight of the wheels really make that much of a difference?
I think it's mostly the tyres, the wheels are almost the same, only difference is the hub and spoke, rims are the same
hey Jeff, what camera (not the GoPros on your bike) do you use to record yourself? e.g you sitting in your garage
sony a6600 sigma 16/1.4. but good lighting is the secret sauce
I really enjoyed the video (which applies to all of your vids) and fully agree with your conclusion. Great job. I also like how you store your bikes. Is this a Thule rack from which you picked the SL7?
Seeing Jeff's arms with the long-sleeved kit feels so weird since it looks bread stick thin in the car shot but after watching all the Alviso videos I know how beefed it actually looks from the chest cam.
Another banger of a vid from NorCal Cycling, lessss gooooo!
Cool video. Did the increased Q FACTOR on the favero duo Shi bother you?
what wheel set would you recommend on 22/23?
I'm between Enve ses 6.7 or DT Swiss arc 1100 or the Roval Rapide on the S-works build (the ones you ride pretty much)
Thanks in advance, great video and editing.
I've always thought that best bang for buck is going from aluminum to big brand budget carbon frames and then upgrading wheels. The marginal gains going from base carbon to top of line is negligible
Top-end aluminum shouldn't be much slower than low-end carbon.
what was different about the wheels and tires? different aero profiles or weight?
I guess those percentages might make a difference if you're Pogacar or Roglic. Reason regular folks buy S-Works is same reason they buy designer clothes, for the bragging rights, ego, confidence boost. I've over-reached and owned a bunch in the past when showing off was important. Now I can easily afford them but I'm too old to care lol, so choose not to buy them (ride Pro versions of Roubaix and Stumpjumper Evo). Good video.
can you take a look at tires?
What was the fancy wheels?
Very good video. It is the same piece of advice that Pedro Delgado sais on Spanish TV many years ago.
So you have confirmed the same thing than a former TdF winner.
Btw I had followed his piece of advice.... and now yours. Thank you.
Love these comparisons! Hey what ever happened to the Couch to Crit series? I loved the theory but never saw any follow-up.
Wich size does that bikes are?. Excelent Video, Thanks
Completely different subject - what brand is that bike stand in your garage? Is it fixed to the wall or just leaning?
Do you have a video on titanium bikes? Looking at a mosaic vs a festka
Whats the difference between the wheel sets?
Whats about the Specialized prevail vs. the evade
How about testing with 2 riders of the same weight side to side and checking the watts difference?
I agree in general. Alwasy get second tier bike if you're not sponsored. Expert or Pro instead of S-Works. If I may suggest, please use metric weights as well as most of the world is using them instead of funny ounces, gallons and elbows. Top wheels are overrated too. Don't get Roval CLX. Get CL. 2 watts difference.
But then... wouldn't it make even more sense to go back to a Venge ?
(One from the last generation only, as these had pretty much same level of integration at the cockpit, previous ones would lose too much aero points for cables sticking out i guess)