Dear Tourists: We're not that imaginative with naming places. So if we call something "Death Valley" or "Devils Den" or "Famine Peak"... beware. There's some obvious backstory involved.
You are not wrong. I live in WV, and there’s an area about 25 miles north of me that’s known as “Murder Mountain.” I brought it up to an exchange student friend of mine from the Philippines, and he asked me why we called it that. I told him, “Because people had been murdered on it.”
Neither are us germans. We just put words together like Lego. So they should have guessed. There is a mountain range called "the sleeping Virgin". You can take a guess how it looks.
This must have been a very tragic ending for them 😰 maybe the childrens bodies gave up first and the parents buried them. Horrible thought but the „best“ guess under these circumstances, would’ve been even more horrible if a child survived the parents. Unimaginable 😰 but these searchers are superheroes to me ❤️❤️
Americans are always totally exaggerating with their shit. Heck, you call a 100 year old house "historic". So no, the names of places are dramatic, but nowhere close to reality. Fail.
People who never give up finding the missing, who reject ending the search and want to bring closure, answers and the people back... they are the silent heroes.
@@dtaylor10chuckufarle Yep. Not to mention the fact that it is entirely legal to hike the backcountry of the National Parks! Just be sure you know what you're doing and are fully prepared.
To give you an idea of how hot Death Valley can get, there are numerous RV camper rental agencies who specifically won't let you drive them through Death Valley because the temperatures get hot enough to melt/deform the vehicle's plastic paneling and sealants.
As a German who's been to the US, I can tell you that we are not used to the sheer scale of things in the US. In Germany it's hard to go anywhere where there isn't some small village a few kilometers away at the most, and maybe 10 km from the nearest Autobahn. (Look up the English Calamity that happened in 1936 where a group of English students got 'lost' in the Black Forest, they met half a dozen people and came across several dwellings during their day of hiking. After the alarm was raised that they needed help, they were all found within 3 hours. (still too late for some)). Germany is on a entirely different scale than the US. For comparison: The biggest national park in Germany is 123 square miles, just NYC is over twice that with 300 sqm. They only had paper maps, and if they were only used to German maps, I can see how they misjudged the distances so severely. If there were lots of labeled point on them like the military base, they might have assumed that there was more infrastructure than there actually was. Also, they were used to kilometers, not miles. If they saw a distance of 8 miles and assumed it was just 8 kilometers (~5miles), that would have factored into how they determined if a trek was possible or not. Obviously they made bad choices and mistakes, they should have realized they were in over their heads waaaay before they even made it far into Death Valley. This is just for the people wondering how they thought this was a good idea. They probably had a completely different frame of reference with how they were judging distances and the weather. (Until the past couple of years, temperatures in the high 90ies were unheard of in Germany, that was a freak occurrence. When I was in school in the early 00s a day with 95F had kids rioting to be let out of school early (and I live in the very south in basically the hottest place in the entire country and that was unusually hot for us))
I can't imagine having so many people and buildings around. I live in a large city in southern Arizona, but I'm out in the middle of nowhere in an hour.
those of us on the east coast have a hard time too with the vast differences out west, so don't feel bad. have been all over Europe myself, never felt lost even when I was lost.
Thanks for that explanation. It certainly does make sense. I lived on the East Coast and when I traveled to the west coast last winter, it was an extremely different terrain Arizona is nothing like Pennsylvania.
Thanks for explaining those differences. It does make it clearer why they might have made the choices that they did. It's really sad what happened to them.
I worked at Death Valley over the winter, before it became a National Park. It was a Monument at the time. The place was super popular with Germans. Though one day, in the Spring I found a car broke down on a remote road. They recommend you carry at least 1 gallon of water per person in you car at all times. It is (or was) actually illegal to not stop and give assistance yo someone stranded in the desert. I found a family of 4 (s adults, two kids) broke down on the side of the road. I stopped and asked how long they had been there and how much water they had. About half an hour and none. I gave them both gallons of my water and told them to drink it all between them, even if they didn't feel thirsty. I then left to call for help. I picked up 4 more gallons of water 2 to replace what I had given away, and 2 more for the family. The tow truck showed up in about an hour, with us all talking and drinking our water. The tow truck driver handed out even more water. The dad laughed making fun of how obsessed we were about water. I said, "In this place, when it's hot and dry like it is now, if you find yourself stranded without water in the morning, you will be dead before sunset. Drink more water. This place is seriously intense. Temperatures can climb to over 125 degrees every day, and temperatures over 130 are not rare. With humidity of around 0.25% you don't get thirsty before your brain begins to be effected by your dehydration. It's a bit safer these days (opposed to 35 years ago) with cell phones, but service can be spotty, and it is so hot, it can cause your cell phone to shut down. Let someone know where you are going and when you expect to be back, even if it's the Ranger Station. That way, if you get stuck, they can send a rescue to you before it becomes a body recovery. Just make sure you check in so they know you are safe. Also, take water. Lots and lots of water. And yea, I know this story. I didn't know the resolution though.
living up at arctic latitudes can't relate to dessert heat, but I know about irresponsible tourists, when it is colder than -35 in snowstorm you have litterally minutes to live with light cloghing (something like jeans and a sweater), even walking briskly at best have 45 minutes before you can't move anymore, and half that time before you have severely degraded mental abilities. we try telling people and yet... a tourist was found last winter, dead in a snowdrift, he went out to walk a mere 280m in a snowstorm, he was wearing just a linnen shirt and suit pants, he thought he knew better, "just going to the corner store for snacks". walking 200m in summef is easy, but in a storm like that, they, can drop 25cm/hour, slogging through knee deep snow is slow work, and in clothes like that you get wet all over from your bodyheat initially melting snow, then wet snow packs onto that which cools you like a full body ice pack, now ad storm winds at near huricane speeds... almost cartoon parody, you know the "instant human ice block" .
18 July 2024 Worked in Saudi Arabia for 4 years. 10 liters (about 2.5 gallons) per day was recommended for driving in the desert. Now back in Sacramento California. About a week ago, the temperature was 110F / 43C. Temperature in Death Valley was reported in a YT video as about 130F / 54C with people flocking there for the heat. I understand there were some deaths.
@@RobertJarecki The really big problem with Death Valley comes more from the humidity (or rather lack of it). I have personally seen humidity bellow 1% in Death Valley. It is so dry you really don't need a towel as when you get out of the pool, by the time you walk to where your towel is, you are already dry. It feels like you are not sweating because perspiration evaporates too quickly. On top of that, you don't feel thirsty. They don't call it Death Valley for nothing.
As a German, I first, have never heard of this (might be a bit too young), and second, can assure you that it would too easy for any European really to underestimate a desert. We just don't have the "great outdoors" and surely no desert anywhere near. Most Europeans will never experience one in their lifetime, surely not in the 90s. I can easily see how they underestimated whatever they tried to do and died.
The same warnings apply for European tourists in central Australia. There are good roads between major cities and big towns, but poor dirt roads to most other places; and little shade or drinkable water in the summer when it's 100-120F. Even night time temperatures can be mid 80'sF. On the longer desert main roads, you often see signs saying "NEXT PETROL xxx KMS" and you'd best not ignore them.
@@hectorpascal There are similar signs like that all over the western US, albeit they're labeled "NO SERVICES NEXT ___MILES" in ominous capital lettering. (The longest stretch of uninterrupted US Interstate is about 215 miles long, or about 346 kilometers) Those signs always spooked me as a kid when my family would drive through the deserts near the Utah border. There's not much out there aside from maybe a ghost town or two. Gas/Petrol stations near huge serviceless stretches of the interstate will stock all sorts of things if you're caught without something important, like gallon jugs of water, pet food, non-perishables, first aid supplies...the list goes on. Now that i think about it, the deserts here in the US do bear some similarities to the deserts in Australia at least climate-wise (American deserts are notably lacking in the taipan and roided up alpha male red kangaroo departments, plus the elevations here are a bit higher) so i'd imagine the average Aussie might be better prepared than the average European, or at least able to shrug off the heat with plenty of water.
@@hectorpascal as a german i would definetly underestimate fahrenheit and miles. at some point i already stopped caring about googling "20miles in kilometers" and just settled with "its a bit more than 20km" - why do we even have diffrent metrics 😭
@@zoe.lilith I agree wholeheartedly about universal use of the metric system. But the other thing all Europeans (except uk and ie) would be unhappy about, is that Australians still drive on the left hand side of the road!
There are a multitude of signs all over the park saying that driving there is prohibited because of the danger. These people would have driven past all of them, thinking they knew better. They also did not bring water, but alcohol, which is absurd. Stop making excuses for these people. I live in California. I've never been to the antarctic, yet common sense says I shouldn't just wander off into the snow and ice without proper gear. It doesn't take a genius to know that you need to bring water into a desert and not take your car off road into a prohibited area.
I can't even imagine their horror when the realization of their fate set in...especially having your two small children with you. May they rest in peace.
I'm an eagle scout with over 800 miles of hiking while doing that. After i turned 18 i continued hiking and im 33 now. I've hiked places all across America. I always warn foreigners to be extra careful when hiking because our trails and our parks can be thousands of miles or millions of acres. Sometimes people don't realize how truly large and sparce a lot of America is
I remember when I hiked up to Carr Peak in Arizona. It was me and a friend. On the way down, he said "let's take a shortcut" We ended up on a cliff and lost. We began the trail at noon and finally found his car at 9 PM... Last time I follow someone who decides to take a "shortcut"
Some years ago a colleague was excitedly telling us (Limeys) about her forthcoming first ever trip to America, and all the things she wanted to see - New York, the Great Lakes, the Big Muddy, Chicago, Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, Vegas, and Frisco. (and a few other, less well known places, like Gettysburg and Atlanta) Something made me ask how long she was going for. One week....... I sensitively suggested she prune her itinerary a little......
@@JohnDavies-cn3romy family’s from Ireland and when my aunts came to visit, they were expecting to do all those things, my father looked at them and said “you do realize, Ireland fits in our state five times and would take the entire day, just to get out of our state” 😂 took them a minute to get it
@@NekoHazrd I was hiking with a friend that wanted to do some _shortcut bushwhacking_ on our way back and I said I'd be staying on the trail but he was welcome to bushwhack on his own and I'd meet him at the bottom of the hill/mountain. He kept strongly trying to get me to bushwhack with him. Saying look, we can see the trail from here and this way is shorter. I advised him that looks can be deceiving and there may be a lot of stuff between here and there we are not able to see from here. Things like high bush, impenetrable thorn bushes, large patches of mud/quicksand, small or large bodies of water... He kept insisting and I kept telling him to go ahead and that I wasn't stopping him. He decided to stay with me and we both made it back safely. I am pretty sure I did both of us a favor.
There's actually a somewhat common problem of people on poorly maintained desert roads getting confused by a wash, thinking it is another road. There's actually been a lot of deaths not from hikers but from drivers who turned off a road onto a wash and didn't realize it until they are lost or stuck. It's a well known phenomenon because sometimes people with cell phones are able to get a signal and call for help if they aren't too remote. It's just the way the run off paths during the rare rains causes these smooth natural paths through the landscape that with other atmospheric factors can look indistinguishable from man made dirt roads.
@Lugeix I highly doubt Nan Dixon's disappearance was from bad driving. Pieces of electrical tape, some had hair and possible human tissue attached. Bloodstains in the trunk and wheels and other places. An unsigned suicide note.. I'm not convinced her death was an accident. It just doesn't add up
"Poorly maintained" That's not only an understatement, but also a misrepresentation. A lot of "numbered roads", that do appear on Google Maps, are not roads in the normal sense. Many are unpaved dirt roads at best. Many are jeep trails. I've been on many, as I've explored the California deserts, not too far from Death Valley. As a kid in the San Gabriel Mountains, in the 1970s, we use to hike many so-called roads, that have the "N" prefix (such as N4). They are dirt hiking paths, at best. I wouldn't even take a 4WD vehicle on them, unless you have a lot of experience. Welcome to the western United States !
Not really safe to visit off trails and roads at anytime. Most dangerous thing about Death Valley now is the 10,000-50,000 abandoned mines you can fall into.
Having used a doge grand caravan as a farm vehicle for several years let me tell you: a V6 front wheel drive minivan can do terrain that you would never expect and it will go go go until it can't. I can absolutely see a family getting turned around, maybe thinking that they need to back track instead of continue through because of a lack of fuel, or something, going off the road figuring it would be shorter and they could find their way back again, getting disoriented, and driving deeper and deeper into the desert until the heat finally killed the tires.
Mahood worked with the Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit for a while, so he was definitely familiar with this rule. Edit: this is now the second time that I've written something about him mere seconds before Kyle mentions it in the video.
The children likely succumbed a day or so before the adults. I think the reason that no one found their remains is that the parents might have buried them knowing they'd likely never be found.
Yes totally agree. it wouldn't have taken much and the alternative would have been to leave the babies on that open plain of sand and seeing those lonely little bodies Disappearing behind them would have been too much. So even knowing they were wasting precious Time and body water they would have dug little holes with their hands ---unless they held them until they died too And all were scattered by the same means. Small dehydrated bones don't weigh much and could easily be blown around just like sand.
Alternatively, and it's a grim thought, they are small enough that they could have just been dragged off by wild animals. I don't know how much actually lives out there, but some sort of small wild dog or fox could be possible in that environment, or more likely large carrion birds come in and carry away most of them.
@@bensmith5720 Not a chance. The area is so remote and hostile no other human would live out there. No shot they encountered anything other than wildlife and a complete lack of water.
I rarely react to share feelings about a story. I was impressed by Mahood's (sp?) reading of the topography and diligence and hiking effort and research and his ability to get into the minds of the stranded Germans. I’ve 4-wheeled the dirt roads of Death Valley. Three days ago, I returned from a 3-day solo off-trail trip in the high Sierra, where I committed a few near errors. That sort of technical stuff is what usually interests me; been studying topographic maps for 5 decades. But, watching this video, I was instead captured and saddened by my glimpse of the horror that the Germans likely felt as they walked: the horror and panic and who knows what emotions follow as logical thinking no longer serves and the water runs out and the terrain ahead goes on forever.
Legitimately one of the most heartbreaking and tragic but totally preventable cases in national parks history. I worked in Death Valley National Park for 3 years as a ranger before transfering and the amount of tourists who tried to hike with very little water was astounding. I personally was part of 2 missing persons/body recoverys while there in the mid 2000s.
A lot of people do not realize that water doesn't really hydrate you. We've been lied to. Our body is mostly water. The H30 in fruit hydrates Your body better than water.So no matter how much water you take it could still be your fate out in those conditions This versus water and fruit and because we have been lied to the entire time about water And not been told the truth about H30. This is why no matter how much water in that heat like that, It will not work as good as H30 in fruit.
Yup, always make sure you learn about the conditions in the area you visit and make appropriate preparations. Things can be very, very different elsewhere.
I just don't get it, how people can be so ignorant. Hiking in extreme and unknown environments, as a recreational activity. With children... But then again, every year you hear about people leaving dogs, children in cars, while they go shopping, whatever. Autopilot, something like that...
My dad lived in vegas for years when i was about 9-14urs old. We went threw death valley several times, usually during summer break. I remember my dad telling us as we drove past the sign that we could NEVER stop, NEVER turn off our car and if our car broke down to stay with the car and never walk away. I was terrified of death valley for years thinking everytime we drove threw we were gonna die. My dad always had like 6 gallons of water in the back at all times.. just in case for us or the car. Ive still never actually stopped there. I couldnt imagine the horror these ppl felt. 😥
Omg yes. People don’t realize today just how dangerous it was to drive through there even on many of the paved roads back then. Cars today can easily handle it but just 30 years ago, the heat could easily take out a car and even if your cooling system held up, it could cause the fuel consumption to go way up and I remember when I was kid and we went through there, it was common for gas stations to be a hundred miles apart or more and they would often be closed, or closed at night so there was no messing around just getting through that area.
I'm from San Bernardino County originally, my parents would sometimes drive through Death Valley on the rare vacations we took (one of them being to Vegas). Every time we drove past Death Valley, I was always kinda fascinated with it but it was a fearful fascination. It didn't look different from where I had lived (SB county is very very desert-y for those who've never been), but I knew from a really young age it was so much dangerous than my hometown. It was understood that if you're in Death Valley and you get stuck there, or if you're simply there by yourself, you're done for. My mom's best friend and her boyfriend actually had their car break down there once. Thankfully, they were only stranded for a couple hours before a person drove by and helped them out. I remember when my mom told me that, I got really scared and asked, "why were they there in the first place?!" I was really young but even then I understood that they got very, very lucky. I don't live in Cali anymore, but I still have a little bit of a fascination with Death Valley. I'd like to drive through it again, but only with a full tank of gas and water just in case. The desert is cool looking, even beautiful at times, but it is fucking scary.
I am a german myself, while I am sure those guys would have been terrified I am also 100% sure that at some point one of the grown ups looked at the other and saif something among the lines of "Trotzdem nett hier" (Despite everything, nice here). We are usually taught from a young age to embrace the beauty despite everything else happening around us. Didn`t help them survive, but probably still a nice afterthought when thinking about the case.
i work for the arizona highway patrol, and we had a vacationer from China take an indian route, approx 50 miles off the interstate, and then lost gps, signal, and followed that road over 100 miles into empty desert because he mistook the off-roading trail for an actual road. if it weren't for cell phones that dude would have 1000% died out there with no one having any idea where he was,.
Tourists do the strangest things. While hiking I ran across a family from Japan that had wandered onto a jeep trail in the Pike National Forest near where I live. Their car was high centered and they had to walk a few miles to cell coverage and call someone to come get them. I'm sure that was a bad day.
Isn't america known for having unkempt roads? A disused goat track might be a reasonable consideration when you've been driving on cracked tarmac riddled with scars and squares of a few decades patchwork.
@jameswalker199 possible, but National Parks are very clear about where visitors can and cannot go. After passing through this same desert by car in the summer, to get to Vegas, I can confirm it isn't exciting or inviting at all.
On a 4-wheeler trail high up in the Pintler wilderness of Montana, I once came across a large RV that had gotten stuck trying to drive through a stream that crossed the road. It was actually "broken" in half as its frame had bent because the stream was of course in a small valley or ditch. I couldn't even figure out how these idiots had managed to get as far as they had. This was a one-lane, rugged, rocky trail clearly only intended for OHVs. The RV had Texas plates.
One thing worth noting, vans are actually significantly better at rough terrain than most would expect. They have a nice, long wheelbase and tend to be a bit "over built" at least relative to other vehicles that have similar purposes, like sedans. They also have pretty decent weight distribution for that sort of thing, just by nature of how they're designed. Not saying it's a suitable offroad vehicle, just that they're often significantly more capable vehicles than they would appear to be.
When I was a teenager i figured that out, I had a 1/4 ton pickup that was only rear wheel drive so when ice and snow was really bad I'd borrow my moms minivan if i could.
We have a chrysler grand voyager, pretty much the same vehicle as in this video but more modern. We have driven to places and then some guys in jeeps and landrovers etc show up with surprised looks because they think them driving on those rough roads is something special. These minivans are really capable at off road driving in the right hands, and especially if you have an awd version which we do not.
@@rafox66 To be fair, those are probably not roads that come close to the limit of what those jeeps and land rovers can do. But there are lots of "off roaders" who think taking their jeep down a bumpy trail is off roading.
@@simonbarabash2151 Yeah, you're right about that to be fair. I guess you could say they confuse 'off-road' with 'of road'. Obviously a vehicle that's actually designed for off-road driving will have far more capabilities, but my point was more that you shouldn't underestimate the capabilities of other types of vehicles. I think that I've driven my beater Peugeot 206 (small FWD hatchback) harder on the same kind of roads as the type of guys you are talking about, bumpy trails but at 80 mph. Those roads are very different from what I consider actual off-road driving.
There's off road, and then there's dirt roads. Not remotely the same thing. This was a dirt road, most cars probably could have made it out there with maybe a few tricky parts. Trying to paint this as an impossibility is a waste of time and poor narration as it brings in questions that genuinely don't matter. "How did this van get here?" It drove.
As soon as he said German I was like, 'ah, yep, makes sense now.' I have a German friend who regular hikes mountains on the weekend for fun who would probably take a look at Death Valley and call it easy. I've never met people with such insane wanderlust.
😂 well, nature can be very beautiful, especially if it doesn't constantly tries to kill you. I try to get my 8-10km (~5 to 6,2m) in at least every other day, on foot through as much nature as I can. 😊 Also, what people also underestimate is that this happened before the internet really was a thing, so you couldn't just google questions you had or for general tips, you mostly relied on travel books and how good or bad those were.
@@di115 We are talking about basic senses neccessary for survival. Babies know when they are thirsty. They know when they are hungry. They know when they are uncomfortable. Uncomfortably wet, soiled, hot, cold, hurt, tired. What they wouldn't understand it why those things weren't being corrected and that would be scary for the 5 yr old. They are aware of those things at birth because those things evolved to keep you alive.
I can understand why the authorities got angry, but the man is a hero!! I'm a third generation Angeleno and I can tell you, Death Valley is even dangerous in the winter. I feel so bad for them, tourists from a very different country just trying to have a wonderful, memorable vacation. So sad. Thank you for always being compassionate when relaying these tales.
As a German... You don't need to feel bad for them. Look at Germany today and let's say... They were saved from that. But it is nice to see compassion. Keep yourself and your precious ones safe. No one can save the dumb and nature wins in the end. Make it a lesson for others.
This is the kind of thing that really worries me when I hear foreigners talking about traveling around America, they seriously underestimate the actual danger in this country and think that we as Americans are either lying or exaggerating the severity of risk that traveling through our more isolated areas pose. I can think of one case where a German female hiker almost died while on the PCT due to weather and was only saved because she had mentioned going up there to a local who became extremely concerned about the hiker's plans and called authorities who went out and found her before it was to late. Or you can look towards the very infamous case of Aron Ralston and his experience in Canyonlands which was only in the next state over.
I can't imagine the pure horror of this situation. I was 5 yrs old when my family drove from Michigan to Disneyland in 1970. In a 1970 Plymouth Cuda. No A/C. I remember riding in the backseat through a desert. Don't know which one, but the road was a straight line as far as you can see. The mirage effect and misery index was fully engaged. My little brother and I had to be let out to puke numerous times. I remember the hot air blowing on me in the backseat as we drove. On the way back to Michigan, we took a route through the northern part of U.S. Wyoming, North Dakota, and so on. We never had a car without A/C again.
@tedwlkr8 Somewhere in the Texas panhandle there are two sets of clothes buried. Traveling from California to New Jersey in a new 1956 Ford station wagon (no AC), I was between Dad and Mom in the front seat. I started saying I was going to throw up. Dad wouldn't stop bc he said I was faking. Mom said, "Okay,just throw up on your father." Dad didn't stop and I did as I was told.
I haven’t been back, but I think the road that goes through Death Valley is a straight one. At least if my memory from 14 years ago is still correct (it probably isn’t because my memory is garbage) but then again, this was in 2010 and we had a car that had the power of modern ac technology...and slightly glazed brakes that were fixed by doing a (very sudden) brake check at speed. That was fun.
In California you definitely went through the Mojave at some point (same desert as Death Valley and Las Vegas). If you were down more on like I-10 especially in Arizona, you went through the Sonoran, Utah/Wyoming/etc. with the high desert is Great Basin in the Basin and Range. You would have had to go to Texas and parts of New Mexico for the Chihuahuan Desert. So depending on the route you took, you definitely went through the Mojave (and likely the Great Basin on the way back), and might have actually hit every single major desert in the Continental US on the way there if you went south to I-10 and then west to Anaheim. If you took I-40, you may have skirted around the Sonoran and Chihuahuan deserts, but still would have been in the Mojave. You would have definitely been pressured to stop at the Petrified Forest or go to Sedona with the vibrant red rocks or check out Route 66 or the like along the way. It would be much more mountainous and forested unlike the rest of Arizona which is desert and chaparral/scrub. Any other route pretty much requires you to go over the Rockies at a much higher elevation than Raton Pass on the NM/CO border or at the Continental Divide near Silver City or the road between Santa Fe and Albuquerque. All of those areas are a bit awkward for a car not used to steep hills, but aren't like mountain switchbacks (though Raton Pass to Trinidad, CO is a bit mountainous and daunting. Driving through the Rockies from CO into Utah to not go into Arizona to reach Disneyland would have meant going over passes between some of the highest mountains in the Continental US and you would have remembered that for sure. So, likely you went around the Rockies to the south via New Mexico and Arizona. Your description actually sounds a bit like the technically not desert chaparral area between Tucson, AZ and Deming, NM or the cutoff route that connects up to I-25 between Deming and Hatch going up to Truth or Consequences. Though it also kinda resembles the drive from Yuma to San Diego, that is on I-8 not I-10, and you take I-10 to Anaheim. The Sonoran is a lot more green than the Mojave or Chihuahuan, with saguaros 🌵 and quite a few short trees with small leaves like mesquite and a lot of cacti and shrubs and succulents (like agave and yucca). Weird plants tend to abound in the Sonoran Desert. The Mojave will have more in the way of tree-like yucca than trees and it is much drier so the plants are more sparse. It is more likely to have areas that are mostly sand and even to have dunes in areas. To me the Mojave just feels like a more generic desert but with lots of yucca and a fair amount of creosote. I don't have as much personal experience with the Chihuahuan Desert. I have only been to Texas a couple times. It is more like the Mojave than the Sonoran. The Great Basin I also have less experience with, but it is a high desert, which means much cooler but just as dry. This is much of the Badlands and such, and it looks like sparse scrub or a lot of cool geology from what I have seen.
@@samarnadrawow! That’s a lot. In 1977 my family moved from MS to Washington State. I remember a desert that seemed to go on forever. I remember the mirages and it seems like I remember people stopped on the side of the road because their vehicle ran hot. But I was 7 so…not too sure on that. I do remember the vomiting tho. I didn’t make it out of the car. 🤢 We went to Anaheim first to visit my new step grandparents. I remember just a tiny bit of Disney Land. I also remember driving up mountains and how crazy that looked to a little girl who had never been out of MS. 14 months later, we made the drive back. I wish I could remember more.
Actually, it was stuck on a old dirt road that followed a dry wash back to Warm Springs Camp on the main road. It had been closed by the Park Rangers for at least 10 years to reclaim the land. The van was stuck near the Geologists' Cabin. The German male didn't know that the track (road) was closed because his map showed it as a short cut back to Warm Springs Camp.
@@leahlewis6487I seem to remember from the blog that this contributed to why the search was so off. The family had stopped or signed a logbook at a cabin they had passed and I think the place was still stocked. So they maybe could have hunkered down there a for awhile which is why the military base theory became so significant. The guy didn't just want shelter, but people.
@@suzannetf The military base is like 39 miles away and not 9 miles. I don't think that was a part of the Germans story. I think they came across real trafficing criminals or were followed to that location, taken and father was left to die.
Authorities look for the spot light but ordinary people follow their hearts moved by compassion and empathy for human beings and animals. Such a sad story . Something about her picture . She looks so sad. Great video. Much success.
I don't know, in Australia we have signs for tourists like 400 kilometres to the next petrol station. To pass this point have at least 2 spare tyres, 20 litres of water, in case of an emergency NEVER leave your car, call this number to tell the local police of your plans etc.
We have similar signs in the South Western U.S. Next Gas Station 100 miles, Turn off AC next 20 miles to avoid overheating, Call this Number for Weather information. Doesn't mean tourists read them or bother to follow them.
This is a national park. There aren't any services outside of the main entrances. There are many dirt roads for explorers and it's easy to mistake a wash for a road.
I've known Europeans who would be preparing to fly to New York City and try to plan a "day trip" for Orlando because they'd "be in the area." I can completely understand them underestimating the distance even with a map. Those poor people.
Yeah, I don't think Europeans can even conceive the fact that there are more than 3 THOUSAND miles between New York and LA. I'm not sure but I don't think the entire continent of Europe is that wide from east to western-most point. Point is, America is massive....
Honest to God, people in the U.S. do the same thing. I live in N. Florida and will have friends from another state go to Miami. They get a hold of me and say "Hey, we'll be in Florida, want to meet for lunch?. I'm like "I would love to but I'm not driving 8 hours to go to lunch".
@@0116Lori See, but that's just small states not understanding big states (I live in Texas so I know this pain) but to think you could pop into a state on the opposite side of the country for a day trip is hilariously off.
I grew up in Ridgecrest, China Lake. I went back for a High School reunion and I took my wife up to Lone Pine for some Ice Cream. On our way back we decided to take the scenic route through the Coso Mountains and skirting just west of Death Valley. We were having a blast in a Mustang convertible, just cruising and vibing, when all of a sudden, the pavement ended. This is the main road north and south on the way to Trona. Having grown up out here, I was aware that this road goes all the way through, so I had a moment of doubt, wondering if we needed to backtrack, or to go forward. We decided to keep going and keep an eye out for a road sign. Fortunately there was one within a few miles but man, I thought about these Germans when we were making that decision.
The children were probably small enough for scavenging animals to scatter their remains easier than that of the adults. The elements also destroy DNA in the picked over bones, which is why it's not a surprise that the incomplete remains were only enough to identify one of them. The few animals that venture into that barren landscape will make the most of remains. Also, pretty sure vultures are known to break apart and scatter bones when they eat the marrow as well as the contents of skulls. So yeah... You aren't going to find much of a person unless you find them fairly quickly. What a sad case and horrific death.
@@bradsanders407Or he died first from drinking beer in the heat and the lady kept going with kids. I doubt she would leave her entire wallet as a breadcrumb tho.
I'm not really comfortable saying this but since you brought it up. Several years ago I had to drive down the same country road every day over a few seasons. It was not that hot up there in summer when I first started going that way, and the road was in the shade because of all the trees. There was a struck deer on the side of the road. It was not there that long, less than 6 months. No service picked it up bc it was a neglected rural road. It just disintegrated and got pulled apart and I noted the condition each drive. I always thought there would be evidence of missing people for, like, 150 years or more if you could find where they had expired or been placed. But if they are near the surface they will be basically totally gone pretty quickly :( The thing that protects them is burial. But then you can't find them in the first place
Could be , the adults could have left the children somewhere they considered" safe and carried on within them as time was a factor and they would have been slowing them down. Id assume they fully believed they would make it to the base and receive rescue.
I think many in Europe get used to the idea that “countries” can be crossed in about a day, then believe that is true of the US….thereby drastically under-estimating the size of the US. I have on multiple occasions run into seemingly bright European travelers in the US who clearly did this. For example, family friends from the UK visiting my parent’s house near Washington DC asked if they could drive to see California “for the weekend” (thinking California was an afternoon drive away)….and they were shocked to hear it takes a week of full time driving to reach California, Or while at a scientific conference in Texas, a European at dinner said they were flying home out of New York City the next afternoon…..as they wanted to see NYC while in the US. They were surprised to hear that you can’t reach NYC from Texas in even 20 hours driving, let alone 6 hours,
I've encountered that; back in the 1970s at a party in Glasgow. A distant relation was excited to hear I was from Canada because she had a future vacation planned to New Brunswick so she would "pop over" to visit me . . . in Toronto. Not going to happen - 15 hours behind the wheel now and much longer 50 years ago.
This is true even of many Americans. If they have never been out here to the southwest, folks from the eastern US often have no idea how big the states get. Seeing a map of it is one thing, but being in the middle of one of these vast expanses is something else altogether. Having lived in Tucson AZ and made many trips across Death Valley over the years, I can say with great certainty that people who have never been in these climates tend to underestimate how hostile they are to human life.
It's kinda the same with people planning road trips in Norway, including Americans. Since the country is fairly small, about the same size as Japan, people assume they can see the whole country in a short period of time. Mostly people from central Europe, and the US/Canada. The Europeans because they're used to highways and everything being close, and Americans because they're used to the long distances on open highways. But driving through Norway takes a long time due to the mountains and fjords. Things look close on a map, but it's deceptive due to the terrain and roads. It's quicker to drive from southern Norway to Rome, than it is to drive to northern Norway (and usually that involves driving through Sweden and Finland to save time). You can wave to someone across a fjord, and it can take 3 hours to drive to them. People make assumptions based on what they're used to, which is often a good thing in your own environment, but not such a good thing when you're far away from home.
beer is the last beverage that you want to drink in those scorching conditions! This reminded me of a similar tragedy where an Asian family from SF took a remote logging trail in Oregon in the winter. They got stuck on the road, and then a storm came in. The husband left looking for help with no survival skills or winter gear at all and later found dead 6 miles away. Good job with covering this story, people should never underestimate mother nature!
Great to see Tom Mahood get a shout out. I found his blog during lock down and was fascinated both by the story of the Death Valley Germans and his descriptions of his adventures looking for them. I'm here because of him. He kick started my interest in the American wilderness that had lain dormant since I watched Grizzly Adams as a child (yes I'm old).
Grizzly Adams!! As a child I had always planned on living in the wilderness hoping to run into Grizzly Adams so we could become a team and hike around the uninhabited wilderness making friends with the animals and of course some Native Americans along the way. I grew up and have been hiking around the wilderness (not full time and not homeless) needless to say no Grizzly Adams but lots of animals some friendlier than others . Not many near death experiences and I have never gotten lost except almost in the Maine woods. Going away from the bear got me back on track. Nice to see there are still people out there who were affected by Grizzly Adams.
@@LAWandCoach As a kid we had a massive Newfoundland dog. Because of Grizzly Adams people thought country folk lived with bears and when people got lost they would drive up to our farm for directions and the massive newfie would run up to the car and the people never got out as they didn't want to be eaten by a bear.
Death Valley National Park is 3M+ acres, China Lake NAWS is 1M+ acres most of which is untouched. They got close to a boundary between vast nothingness and more vast nothingness.
As a Geologist working in Death Valley over 40 years, I can attest to the remoteness of much of that country. However, aside from the summer months, the weather is not dangerous (in fact, it can be cold during winter). However, it is always dry: there are no springs of potable water. If you get lost, dehydration is what is going to get you.
If you trespass onto a military base, in a non-emergency you will likely be arrested and charged. However, if you trespass onto a military base because you are lost and need help, they will provide that help. They will never just shoot you on site, or secret you away in case you saw something. At most they might make you sign an NDA, but they will certainly not put you in prison. In an emergency most laws are void. Let's say, for example, you are waiting for a red light to change when the location you are waiting in becomes unsafe, you can proceed, carefully, before the light turns green. I was with my nephew once when I looked over as saw a shit ton of cops pointing guns at a store front. I had no idea what was happening but I wasn't going to take the chance someone might start shooting at the police, the could hit me or my nephew. I looked, saw no cars coming and ran the red light. My nephew was a bit upset but when I told him it was okay because the police were trying to arrest someone, and I didn't want to be directly behind the cops if someone started to shoot. I dropped my nephew with my sister then drove to the police station. I wanted to get something from the police, to prove the place I was waiting for the light had become unsafe. The cop looked on the computer, found my violation in the camera log and deleted it. The cop still gave me a note to take to court just in case, but I never needed it.
The unfortunate likely assumption the tourists made is that their would be military personnel at the station that could assist them. But China Lake is a bombing range; it is neither actively patrolled or even manned most of the time. Even if they managed to reach it, there wouldn't have been anyone there to help them.
I was in rural Thailand, our group met a German woman who invited us to hike to the other side of the island, through the jungle, a local man offered to take us in a boat as he said there were big snakes in the jungle, that was enough for me but the woman insisted he was ripping us off and we should hike, I went a short distance where I couldn’t even see my feet then said forget it. She was pissed, thinking us whimps lol, better a live whimp than a snake dinner😱
@@lealovesthesea I tend to forget to tip too when I am in countries where tipping is the custom because it just isn't done in my country. Finland. As far as I know the German culture is similar, tipping has become a lost custom because most times you pay for some sort of service a service fee is included in the bill. This has happened here during my lifetime, when I was a child in the 60s and early 70s I remember my parents leaving a tip for the waiters in restaurants at least, but when I started to go out by myself it was no longer done by anybody. But the end result is that when I visit countries where you are supposed to leave a tip, first, I tend to forget the whole thing completely sometimes, second, I most times have no idea who to tip or how much to tip, so often enough I will not leave a tip when I am probably supposed to, either just because I don't think about it, or because I am not sure if I should, or how much would be appropriate, and then may end up leaving without tipping just because it seems the easiest route, and besides I have never been exactly rich so my travel funds are usually on the low side so I am not fond of the idea of doing something like tipping when it maybe would not have been necessary, or of giving more than would have been necessary either. Most times I remember to tip waiters, but that is one of the few situations when I am most likely to remember to do it. And that is mostly due to American movies and television serials. I suppose it's even a stronger association for generations younger than I am - as said, there was at least some tipping still done here when I was a child - who probably would have no idea that such a custom even exists anywhere without American movies, but due to those may connect it only to America. Would actually be kind of nice if places like resorts in those countries would have lists for "who, when, and how much to tip" available, or visible around the place.
In her defense I gotta say scamming tourists is almost like an acceptable hobby in Thailand. My (Finnish) mom has spent her winters there for a decade now and shes been had a few times, the attempts are in the double digits. There is plenty of good people in Thailand, but when even the police takes part in it, its not a good look. But yeah, I think I wouldve taken the boat ride too, not a fan of wondering in thick jungle in that eternal heat :)
I spent 45 years working in remote desert telecom sites in California and Nevada, including the general area where this case occurred. I cannot stress enough how dangerous these areas can be to anyone who is unprepared. Something as innocuous as a flat tire can quickly become a life-threatening event. Have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. And as part of all of those plans, include the ability to survive on your own for a week while you're being searched for. My plans included several ways to communicate with the outside world not using cellphones. This sort of environment WILL kill you if you let it.
I think he did an extraordinary job in preparation and finding the IDs/bones. I realized he put himself in danger but it’s his puzzle solving just knowing where to look, incredible!
The Germans had stopped at the Geologist's Cabin in Striped Butte Valley. This place is always stocked with food and water and also provides shelter. The Germany had left an entry in the Guest-Book there indicating that they were heading for Mengel Pass and Goler Wash. I've been offroading in DV since 1997 and I'm somewhat familiar with the area. I did the Warm Springs - Striped Butte - Mengel Pass - Goler Wah - Barker Ranch - Ballarat trip over half a dozen times. I dn't think Mahoods assumption, that Rimkust tried to reach China Lake is correct. I'm pretty sure, the Germans blew out at least one tire already between Warm Springs Camp and Striped Butte Valley. Once they realized they couldn't make it across the boulders at Mengel Pass they turned around and eventually saw the headlights of cars travelling on the main road on the floor of DV - between Ashford Mills ruins and Badwater. After dusk it's possible to see those lights from up at the higher positions in Striped Butte Valley. And the most direct way down to "civilisation" at that pont appears to be Anvil Springs Canyon. I'm pretty sure the Germans wanted to make it back to the valley floor as fast as possible and the headlights in a distance made them chose the apparent shortest route. Keep in mind: They made this decission while in esy walking distance from the Geologist's Cabin - which they knew and where they've stopped and entered the stucture earlier! They knew that there was shelter, water and food. Also they must have met some other people on their way, because Warm Springs camp, the cabin and even Mengel pass and Goler wash are rather popular among the offroad community. There's no exactly heavy traffic obvisously, but even during the summer at least a hand full of offroad enthusiasts go there every day. Also: The Germans had only three days in order to make their flight out of SFO. They still wanted to go to Yosemite. The route over Mengel pass would've meant a detour since the fastest route of DV and towards Panamint and Owens Valley to the 395 and north to the eastern park entrance to Yosemite near Lee Vining would've been the 190 over Towne Pass past Stovepipe Wells and out of DVNP. The NPS-issued maps of the time were easy to read and labeled Mengel Pass clearly as "High Clearance, 4WD required / Experienced drivers only". I'm pretty sure Egbert Melkus was completely ignorant not just to the distances, the dangers of the desert travelling, but also to any common sense at all. It's a tragedy that three innocent people, including two children, had lost their lives because of his actions.
But they did find bones on the way to the military base, so that is proof for Mahoods theory. And as a german, the decision between a cabin and the military in an emergency will always be the military. I am pretty sure that the heat at that point had made a huge impact to the brain, the train of thought and reason... I would assume that Egbert had served in the military as a young man and with the damage from the heat they both just clutched onto that thought, because for us, a military base also means at least a little sick bay with a doctor, which would be very important for the kids.
Common sense is only common sense once you have learned something. Ex: common sense not to stick your hand on the lit stove after you have done it as a child.
Southern California native here. Please don't ever go to death valley. If you want to see a desert, go to Yucca valley. It's gorgeous and full of life. Desert trees, covered with scraggly desert bushes, massive hills. The rare sight of cute little road runners, bobcats, and coyotes. The coyotes there are so damn smart I heard a story of a puppy that pretended to limp toward someone and when they approached the parents leaped out! I got lost on a hiking trail as a teen when I was with a group and our leader took a wrong turn. I showed up at the parking lot right when they gathered a crowd to come search for me and my friends. Maybe it's because there is more infrastructure, but it really is far less dangerous. And far less HOT! The temperature is actually mild for a desert.
You can see coyotes in South Pasadena. Who needs to go to the desert? We have a lot of wildlife where I live and the last thing I'd ever do it waste time on hiking the desert.
If I want to see all that I will go to Yucca Valley. But I love the washes, canyons and valleys of Death Valley. Its like an alien world, crazy hot in the day and brutally cold at night. I backpack there at least twice a year but never in July or August.
No, DO go to Death Valley! It's beautiful and amazing. Just go when it's not 120 degrees! And do it smart. I've been twice, and it's totally worth it. There's no place like it.
We go to Death Valley every year in Jan/Feb. My Dad was the assistant to the Director of Furnace Creek Inn in 1935. I have deep roots! But NEVER in the summer.
I am so hooked on your videos. My husband and I love taking our dog on long walks on trails that are easy to moderate, albeit beautiful, peaceful and gets us out into (relatively tame) nature. So no hard-core hikers here, but it is fascinating to read about them. Thank you for taking the time to share and educate.
The baby and child breaks me… so much suffering and by no mistake of their own. 💔💔💔 I couldn’t imagine watching my baby die and know I couldn’t do anything to help them besides die alongside them, so far from home….
Seeing the picture of the mother and her child I questioned when it had been taken. She looked so sad. Her child happy. Such different responses to a common experience. Her face is flushed and the child appears to be wearing a shirt on his head as a sun guard. Was this photo taken on that fatal trip? So sad.
@susantharaldson529 that had to be an old photo bc Kyle said her child, a son, was I think either 4 or 9 years old, and the man's son was 11. I am not certain of the kids exact ages he told us, but they were a lot older than in the pictures shown.
His son was 11 and her son was 4. It would be horrible if the parents died first and the little ones would have no clue what to do. Coyotes are everywhere and desert nights are full of a universe of stars and the howling of coyotes - otherwise silence.
I watched your ranger's horrible passings video and was brought to this video next and i have to say you make very good content and are very thorough in your explanation of these stories through research. Very well done!
I kept a 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager I inherited from my parents. They came with AWD as an option, I have it on mine. Ive pulled an F250 with a tandem axle trailer out of the mud with my van, Ive pulled a Silverado stuck at the bottom of a wet/grassy embankment back onto the highway with my van, and Ive "pulled" a flatbed towtruck with its front wheels burried up to the axles in mud back onto dry ground. Mine also has 436,000 miles. Theyre amazing vans. With the cast iron V6, its definitely a vehicle that will safely carry you to hell and back.
They really are amazing vehicles. My dad had a 96 and it did everything for the family and more. I remember how comfortable it was to ride in on a highway trip. 300k miles with the V6. Im not surprised the Germans made it to that point.
My father owned a cattle station in the 1960s in one of the hottest areas of the Northern Territory in Australia. His best friend, Uncle Paul, was the local Police Officer in the last small town in the area, about 6 hours drive away, before travelling into the true Red Centre. Dad was driving along the road and came across some English tourists, a family with 4 young children. Their car had overheated in the middle of the day because the radiator had run out of water. He gave them water because they had less than a gallon for the entire family and car. Their only food was a few sandwiches the mum had made. Remember that this was a time before airconditioned cars. They seemed oblivious to how dangerous their situation was. The father said they were "on an adventure". They were going to drive through the town and then onto the red centre. Dad got the car going and asked them to say hi to the Police Officer in the town for him and he'll look after them. They were very thankful. He saw them off then radioed his mate and told him a group of insane tourists were on the way to see him. His friend talked to the couple, realised how daft and totally unprepared they were, and told the father that if he didn't get his car checked, get properly provisioned and drive back to the city he would arrest him for child endangerment. Whether the tourist realised it or not, after the grumbles, Dad and his friend did look after them. Dad and Uncle Paul, and many of the locals had been part of search and rescue efforts a few times for crazy tourists, and Uncle Paul did all he could to stop them when they had young children.
all i can think about reading some of these stories of dumb tourists (and parents at that) is that so many of these people should NOT be allowed to have children. or vote. or do anything without supervision tbh
I am so grateful for people like your dad that care about other people enough to actually take the time to help and warn, even if it may be not immediately appreciated. :-D But I am sure this family later realized that your dad had saved them. Really heartwarming that these kids, and their parents as well, were granted the chance to continue to live there lives happily. Incidents like this make me so thankful and happy that there are 'indeed' ;-) real and good people out there that will act upon gut feelings and on the behalf of others. This is what makes us human(e). ❤❤❤
This always makes my teeth itch.. I've visited Death Valley a few times (from the UK) and have nothing but respect and pretty straight up fear for the environment. Last trip we met a couple who ripped a tyre on a side road but happily caught a ride to the nearest visitor station for help. We were in a 2 seater before you ask but able to report their location. Things can go very bad very quick. Stay hydrated folks. Don't take chances.
I've been through Death Valley one time and kept going. The last two signs you see is no gas or water for 100 miles and Remember to turn your air conditioners off. Me and ex were long haul drivers and it was 120 degrees of the most hellish heat I've ever experienced in my life. First time and the last time
@@razzor8970because turning your air conditioning on works the motor harder and heats up the engine more. In that kind of intense heat you don’t want the motor running hotter. You want to keep the motor as cool as possible so it keeps running and the water/antifreeze doesn’t boil out and kill the radiator. The radiator being the part of the engine that keeps the engine cool.
@@shelbykurmey4581there has been times when my car started to overheat and you turn on the heater, it is afterall a small radiator, not something desirable on a hot sunny day but better for the engine, living in Britain we have never had experience of the sort of heat described so it's almost impossible to comprehend, one thing I did read many years ago was to remove a wheel and burn the tyre as a way of attracting attention, don't know why but have watched various things over the years on desert survival, never had any inclination to go to one.
In Germany, there's nothing even remotely as remote as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as hot as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as dry as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as unpopulated as Death Valley. In Germany, should you ever get lost in whatever we have that might qualify as wilderness, all you'll have to do is walk consistently downhill and you'll stumble upon a little brook in pretty much no time flat. Follow that, and you'll get to some settlement within the day. In alpine regions things might be a bit of a different story. But other than that, there's no way to really get lost in Germany, or go places where there's neither any water nor shelter to be found anywhere within miles. So I can very easily imagine Germans far underestimating the dangers of places like Death Valley.
I've come across many of them out on BLM land in California/Nevada/Arizona. Usually they've been shot up for target practice, with spent shotgun shells, beer cans, and other trash scattered around. There's all sorts of 50+ year old appliances and other junk out there that people have dumped. It's not like the minivan in this video, where it's a wilderness area and you can tell that it was recently occupied by a family.
i live in an area with trails crisscrossing everywhere in the forest - old animal trails, abandoned railway beds, old logging roads, even tracks from when they used horses for logging. Every hike i've been on i've seen at least one abandoned car. most of them are 50+ years old. I'm not sure at this point i'd even notice a recent one unless the ground was obviously recently disturbed. it would be super creepy to find one with an old skeleton in it though.
There is an old battleground turned state park near my house. Went walking one day and found one bloody sneaker, on the inside. Like someone stepped on a nail or something. No one around and the shoe was gone on the return trip. Still wonder wtf.
I, as a native German, can say that this is a total normal behaviour. I think/know, I also would have locked the car, especially when it is a rentet car. The fact that I´m in the dessert, with 3 flat tires and sand til the axles, does NOT change the fact that I´m responsible for the (rentet) car. I can´t let it alone in the dessert WITHOUT locking it :-))
I remember when I went to Germany a few years ago that driving to places felt incredibly short; I would pull out my sketch pad or take a nap and suddenly two hours later, we’re at our destination, even with a few traffic jams/staus that we sat through. For context, I’m American and had to do 14-hour car rides every year when I was small. You learned to get used to it, because there sure as hell isn’t any other way to get there. I would imagine the opposite is true for a German visiting here; the western states are vast and there’s no way to make the journey faster unless you speed on the interstate (risking your car’s health if you’re running it for too long) or take a plane (can be expensive and a hassle with security, alongside the fact that you’ll still probably need a car AFTER getting off the plane). It is scarily easy to take the wrong route if you aren’t paying attention. Hell, I’ve done it and I live in an environment like this one (albeit much cooler due to my hometown being 4500+ feet above sea level). It’s better to be safe and late, than dead and on schedule. So, if you’re wanting to visit the western US, I can at least give the tips I’ve learned: -Most town visitor centers are located directly off of an interstate exit, and they will usually stock paper maps for the area. They’re almost always free, and if you’re there during the day, somebody is usually working there who can give tips or warnings about road conditions you wouldn’t know otherwise. -Try not to take obscure county roads to cut time or distance. Keep to either the interstate (the roads marked with the blue and red shield looking symbol) or federal highways (symbol looks somewhat similar but is in black and white) as these roads are typically much better traveled and a breakdown can be much easier to get help for. -If you’re driving a rental car, do not be afraid to check any of the car’s components before a long drive. Make sure your oil isn’t black ooze, your coolant is filled a good amount, etc. -If you are driving through the desert and happen upon something resembling a dirt road with grooves in it; check it first. You might have found a wash. *If it is not marked on your maps as a road, DO NOT take it.* Washes tend to have fine, soft sediment that crumble easily thanks to them being places where water drains. You run a risk of being stuck on a path that goes nowhere. -If there is rain in the forecast, or you have a way to check radar, and see rain near your location in the desert, avoid washes and slot canyons. These spots are places where flash floods can hit with very little warning. Water can also fool you into thinking it’s shallower than it appears; don’t try to drive your car through it, even if it’s a big ass truck. A flood will not give a shit if your rental Ram 1500 is heavy. Follow the saying: Turn around, don’t drown. -Americans tend to look more at travel time more than raw distance. This is just because so many things can effect the roads here (extreme curves that require slower speed, inclement weather, construction, etc) that a bad bout of weather can make a 150 mile drive go from about an hour and a half to three hours in minutes. -Miles are weird. I’m saying this as an American. However, something that helps me to figure out rough travel times is that 120 kph is very close to our standard interstate speed - 75 mph. (Some states set the limit at 80 mph - you can go either, just make sure you stay in the right lane except to pass large trucks if you’re going 75! This makes passing a lot easier for everybody involved). The raw conversion is 1 kilometer is roughly about .62 of a mile. -American cars do have kilometer speed measurements. On traditional speedometers the kilometers are labeled in slightly smaller numbers underneath the miles. On electric speedometers there’s usually a way to make it display kilometers instead of miles. Don’t be afraid to check the owner’s manual (if it’s in the car) or look up a tutorial (nothing wrong with that, either)! -Don’t push yourself. You will not cross the country in a day. Drowsy driving is not fun or enjoyable, for you and everybody on the road around you. Plan your travel times in advance, or find a place to rest. -Finally: Trust your gut. If something feels unsafe or you feel like you’re out of your depth, don’t be afraid to retreat and try another route. If you can’t go another way, then drive carefully and give yourself plenty of space between you and the car in front of you, in case you need to stop (traffic, wildlife, etc) Places like Death Valley are named that way for a good reason; they’ve earned it. If you must go through it in the warmer months, *do not stop the car*. Any time the car is off in the valley gives a risk of it not turning on again. Even on the paved highway that goes through the valley, heatstroke can hit fast thanks to the dry air dehydrating you before you even realize it’s happening. Respect the desert, because fighting it during the day is a losing battle. Keep your strenuous activity to the night hours. Stay safe out there, fellas.👍
Ambient temp of 107 degrees, but the flat sand may exceed 140 degrees, and reflected heat may create an oven effect in spots. It's cooler to walk at night, but it's too hot to sleep in the daytime. There are others to think about.
There is a shallow shelter you can make in the sand to keep cooler during the day. You need a folding shovel and a poncho. I venture that many or most people don't know about this. It pays to have a survival app on your phone. Study and memorize it if you can't take a paper copy. These manuals can increase your survivability in many adverse situations
@@christow7989 Clear plastic may be used to improvise a solar still in many deserts. Headliners and carpet are not real expensive, and hubcaps can be used to dig and for signaling. There are floor mats to keep the feet from getting burned. But in Death Valley, there would still be only a day or so to reach better ground.
sht honey, lets take a trip to death valley, sounds exiting, yeh, o.k. do your research, before you step out the fkn door.. i wander who, they told were they were going, or did anyone warn them.. not even the car rental.. it should be closed or have bloody big signs.. do not enter between bla, bla, make sure you have 300 gallons of water, & a sat ph.. record your trip with a ranger station.. same as planes.. we get the same sht here in aus. tourists die in the desert..even locals..
We used to go ATV'ing at Dumont dunes when it was 107 degrees. Big deal. it's when you ran out of beer, I mean water is when it got hot. Dunes are 30 miles north of Baker, CA in Death Valley.
As a local resident, I would like to advise tourists to stop visiting here (Death Valley) in June, July, and August. This is a serious PSA. I am tired of the constant news stories of tourists dying from heat stroke. No one living here goes outdoors during the heat of the day. You have about 2 hours after sunrise, and maybe 1 hour around sunset that it is safe to venture outdoors for any activity. Your car is not safe. Vehicles break down very easily in the extreme heat. Tires overheat and explode, engines overheat and fail, next you overheat and die. Don't drive out here at noon, it is an honest death wish. Once your vehicle overheats and the engine no longer starts, it quickly turns into a solar oven. You will have to almost immediately seek shade, and there is very little or possibly none. Death Valley can be a very beautiful place 9 months of the year, come during those months.
Tourist maps can be hard to read. My boyfriend and I got lost one winter while hiking from Govetts Leap to Evan’s Lookout in the Blue Mountains in Australia. He had purchased a new book about day hikes, and we followed the instructions down to the floor of the valley, but couldn’t find the way back up. The sun was setting so finding shelter was a challenge. We finally found a rocky overhang with a dead tree leaning against it. Fortunately I had been a Scout and never went hiking without high energy foodsAND MATCHES. We took turns all night napping or keeping the fire going in the near freezing conditions. In the morning we still couldn’t find the way out by following the book, so we retraced our steps and made it out safely. Oh yeah, and we threw the book away!
I gotta think that a situation like that would make or break a relationship. Either you learn that you work well as a team and you can count on the other person in the most dire circumstances or you learn that either they or yourself is potentially dead weight. Just imagining my ex-girlfriends in a situation like that with me... I guess there is a reason I'm still single...
Rental car companies have cars stolen from them all the time, it just goes to collections and gets processed by some employee. A month sounds reasonable.
I rented a car at the Nashville Airport but when I got there they upgraded me to a cherry red convertible with 23 miles on it. I asked the lot guy to trade it for something "less bold" as I was heading to libraries and small town cemeteries outside Nashville. He did and I had a great week and went to take the car back and was told " Oh you have that. Glad you brought it back it wasn't signed out properly so we had no idea who had it or when to expect it back." That flashed back to a Uhaul trailer with my husband's grandmother's effects we got home late Sunday evening and parked it on the Street in front of our house. It was due back by Tuesday. Neighbor decided to call in that there was a stolen truck and Uhaul came and towed it with the papers in the glove box. Police had said there was no report of call for a tow so it was a private tow. Called Uhaul and at first they didn't want to tell us they towed it then they would not go get the papers out of the glove box to see we had it until Tues. Then they tried to tell us we should have called them and told them it was on town. New rule just for us. We threatened to call the police if they did not let us take it and empty it before bringing it back. The Uhaul place was not a place we wanted to.leave a loaded truck overnight while they decided "what to do". I immediately had visions of ending up in jail in Nashville for Grand Theft Auto with only my words as to how it happened.
I had a rental one day past my contract due to insurance company issues. they called me and reported the car stolen immediately. I had to leave work and drive back to the rental car place to sign a new contract and them to tell the police it wasn't stolen anymore. I couldn't believe it.
What a horrible mistake they made. I've been reading the comments section for 30min. Truly one of the best parts of the internet. The sad condolences among the warnings, near-tragic stories, experienced people describing similar... captivating and educational. Hope it helps prevent more stories like this.
Whilst it’s not quite the same in terms of a long time mystery, this particular story reminds me of something that happened in my home state of Oregon not too terribly long ago. In 2006, the Kim family was driving from the Seattle area, where they had spent Thanksgiving, to the Oregon coast. They missed their exit and, due to poor weather conditions, became stuck on a logging road they initially believed to be an alternative route. Unfortunately, Mr Kim ultimately lost his life after hiking out into the elements to find help. The rest of the family was okay because they were rescued after a few days. I think many people consider the mystery and tragedy of this story to be the fact that Mr Kim decided to hike out so soon; this is because people knew where they were headed and the family was expected to arrive there in a certain amount of time. This knowledge is what ultimately lead to the rest of the family’s rescue. It’s still a little unclear why Mr Kim made the decision he did. Similarly to the missing Germans, I believe one Mrs Kim stated that, after looking at a map, they believed to they were much closer to an area inhabited by other humans than they were in reality.
I remember that story. If I'm not mistaken they burned their tires thinking it could be seen from the sky. ( It didn't work) Then a bear came around and they were running out of food. I think they found him face down in a river. Very sad 😢🥺
you skipped the most important part of that rescue, his tech industry friends used the first ever method of retrieving cell tower phone ping data to triangulate and map out their possible location. I recall that they drove onto a forest mountain pass road that should have been gated closed for the season. Speculations were that Kim died of hypothermia while hiking back out uphill to the last road intersection they passed.
I recall this story too! The things we are capable of in terms of endurance when we’re pushed and facing eminent death is Incredible! We are made to endure so much more than we realize but naturally the elements are always going to prevail in time. Always sad when it’s an entire family or group of people.
What a great video. I’ve always wanted the full story because Death Valley is in my backyard. If anyone wants to go to the desert, be it Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and even California and Texas, please know that in the summer it is HOT. Like serious HOT. 107 degrees is just a normal summer day in the desert. And it’s not just hot, it can also be windy. Ever experienced 18 mph wind when it’s 110? It’s like being inside the clothes dryer. Just hot air that never stops hitting you. And that hot air is dry, so dry it pulls moisture out of you every minute. If I hang my wet laundry on a hot day, it’s completely dry as a bone in 2 hours. Yes, even jeans and towels. The desert is dangerous for many reasons but the heat and dry environment will attack you like you would not believe if you’re not acclimated to it. It takes about two weeks to fully acclimate to a new climate. So if you’ve never been here and you want to go hiking in the summer, deep into the backcountry of the desert for a couple days, expect to end up in a survival situation. There’s nothing out here, I mean nothing. For vast stretches of miles, nothing. Everything looks the same so it is easy to get lost and not be able to find your way back. In many places your gps won’t work, or even worse, will give you wrong directions. Ask me how I know, lol. It’s burning during the day, then when the sun goes down, depending on where you are, it can then get very cold. It is a place of extremes. Please, I am begging you, take the desert seriously. It is an unforgiving place that will kill you easily and no one will hear you scream.
I live near there too. Many people have died from following GPS directions down those dirt roads! And there is no water anywhere. You need a gallon per day per person out there in summer!
Agreed! A gallon per person per day and that’s just for drinking. That doesn’t even count washing up or putting water on your face to cool off. I always keep a sincere respect for this desert and never underestimate what the heat can do. I’m sure you get it if you’re out here too. And hey, hope you’re keeping cool. It’s only 95 where I am today, a nice cool summer day!
Ever family member that has ever lost a relative in a National Park would be lucky to have someone like Tom investigating especially when the N Park has given up.
Thank you for your videos, you actually inspired me to start volunteering at our local search and rescue org a couple months back. I may not be able to afford to donate money, but I can give my time to help other people.
As a European who visited Death Valley in summer (the temperature at that time was about 115 F (or 46 C) I can say what is was hard to imagine for me, how deadly this place is, before I entered it. We went two people with a car, had lots of water in it. I lived in the USA for two years at that moment, traveled for some time and was kinda used to long distances with no infrastructure around. And still for me was unimaginable the place like Death Valley. Honestly, I was terrified to lose my car out of sight, then we went out for very short hikes. Later we decided just skip hikes and mostly stay in a car. We left a car just for several minutes to make some photos nearby. And even this looked dangerous to us. It was so deadly hot, it seemed that you can succumb just from walking short distance. We crossed a part of the Valley in one day. As we left it at night and parked at the lounge next to the Valley border, I counted how much water we both consumed in that long day. I found 8 empty bottles (2 liters or 0,5 gallons each). So it means everyone of us drunk 8 liters (more than 2 gallons) of water. Couldn't believe my eyes. And I don't remember using a restroom that day:)))
I dont get why anyone would even go there during the summer. with those temperatures, I would expect that car to heat up to a point where being inside would be as unbearable as outside
@@sshreddderr9409 it was before I left USA for good. We made a goodbye trip and timeline change wasn't an option. And as I told, I didn't imagen before I went, how hot it is for real:) And we were not alone - it was a bunch of turist where. I do not regred going, it was a huge impresion for me. And we stayed on main roads, didn't do anything stupid. As we went in, we realized very quickly that this place needs to be respected and operated in that manner.
Oh yeah? You done a study to determine what most Europeans conceptualize the desert as? How did you go about this? What was the parameters of the control group?
@@daenwallace5487 I've heard similar from Europeans generally. When planning a US trip that requires overland travel -- especially a first trip -- they often don't conceptualize the distances involved.
I live in the Mojave desert between DV and JTNP and got excited when I saw the thumbnail because I recognized the photo of the van immediately. Such a tragic and easily avoidable story, yet not actually that uncommon out here... people die all the time in the desert getting stuck on remote roads not appropriate for their vehicle (or as in this case, driving on a non-road), or choosing to hike at the peak of summer during the height of the day refusing to believe you can become disoriented with heat stroke within minutes *in view of your car.* What made the Death Valley Germans so crazy is just how far they got before they became stuck. What's sad is that the park service CLEARLY WARNS people in every way in their power not to do these things and yet they keep doing them... 4x4 High Clearance Only doesn't mean a car or van, *but also doesn't mean a Subaru or other AWD vehicle, don't do it.* If you do get stuck in a vehicle in a remote area, DON'T LEAVE THE VEHICLE. After all, look what was found first. I suppose there are a VERY few exceptions, but in almost all cases it's a bad idea *even if* you think you see something that might be a good target. It's probably not, like how the military base wasn't. Even if you think you're going to die if you stay where you are, you almost certainly will if you try to walk out, so stay with your big, obvious, much-easier-to-spot-from-the-air-than-you car. Plus the vehicle provides some survival materials, you can at least huddle in the shade and as someone else already mentioned use the materials it provides to make a signal fire with a lot of black smoke.
@@Kent-j1i ? I'm not saying don't go out into remote areas of the desert. I'm saying don't be an idiot about how and when you do it. If that's slavery to you, you do you.
@@Faretheewell608 - exactly. I almost lost a hiking pal mid 90's Anvil Trail Acadia Nat'l Park. This was way before Missing 911 became known. Hiking pal fit the Missing 411 'profile points, including 'point of separation' near the summit.
I live in the Arizona Desert. Never been to Death Valley, but I understand how hot it gets. What I do not understand is why the park administration allows tourists to go in on the hottest days of the year when the hiker passed away.
I remember Kyle Hates Hiking when you and your friend were taking us on trails, staying at motels (showers!), meeting people. I think you had about 15,000 subscribers then. I knew you were going to grow. Handsome, charismatic, and informed! Well done, Kyle!
@@KyleHatesHiking Kyle, I will give you some advice on improving your commentary. You have a good talent for storytelling, assembling the facts in a logical concise manner, and the ability to concentrate all of the information overload into a well-presented video. However, I am a grammar Nazi (I study Latin and Hebrew for fun) and there are two things that you and a lot of other documentary creators overlook and that is using "like" and "that being said". When you proofread your content, please don't use those terms. They don't add anything to the story. I know "liking" is very common among your generation and "that being said" is common in most news organizations. For instance, my wife's home health care nurse (masters in nursing and other advanced degrees) cannot say 2 sentences without inserting "like" 4 times. Yes, I am a subscriber and knew about the German family when it happened. When a person gets dehydrated (I was a marathon runner and century cyclist) their ability to think clearly is impaired. Then they fall victim to tunnel vision (I have to finish the marathon (me) and I only have 7 more miles to the finish line) and have only one goal in mind. I have seen and experienced soldiers collapse from heat stroke, and I totally collapsed on a 75-mile bicycle race, I have seen marathon runners collapse from dehydration several times... The effects of dehydration and impaired judgment are killers and no one ever realizes it until they collapse or a friend rescues them before the collapse.
When I go to national parks in the US and Canada, I always book day trips/guided tours. I was told a few times by ''adventurous'' people that these tours are such a tourist trap and ''where is fun in going on a tour with other tourists''. I do this because I have no idea how to navigate through these remote places and the last thing I want is to get lost in a national park on a different continent. I can only imagine how easy it is to get lost in an area I know very little about in the middle of nowhere. I grew up in Slovakia, we have several national parks with deep forests full of bears and a lot of people get lost/injured in there, on average, 30 people die in the Slovak mountains every year. There is a national park outside of my hometown and if you get lost in there, you can easily end up in 2 other countries within a few hours, which makes the search even more challenging. This spring, they found an unexploded bomb from WW2 while building a new cycle path through the national park. You are safe on the official, marked trails, but that doesn't stop people from exploring other areas. And there are people who specifically go there to search for ''souvenirs'' from WW2...stuff that German/Russian soldiers left behind during the war. It's fascinating but also terrifying.
My family all came from Slovakia, Sadok and Krusovce area. Go there often. Once, my two Slovak girlfriends who are sisters [long and dicy story] Made the trek from my home near Yosemite to the grand canyon and thought they would hike down and up to the canyon bottom in one day with 100+ F heat. like 8 miles. Well known to kill tourists that underestimate our deserts. They made it down and halfway up where they were rescued [water] by some real hikers. I had to laugh at them as it took over a week where they could walk normally again, massive ankle and leg pain. We also went to death valley - my favorite spot in California - but I kept them poolside at Stovepipe wells.
I tell people. Turn your oven on high for half an hour. Then open the door and put your face up to it. That's what the summer time temps feel like is the Southwest U.S. It is dangerously hot outside
Kyle: I just discovered your channel, and for once (at least on RUclips) it doesn't feel like you're exploiting horrific stories for views. Instead, I feel moved - and (generally) saddened by the people of all genders, races, age and humanity that sadly find themselves in irreversible situations. Your storytelling is profound, supported by research and not exploitative, and even with mostly traumatic endings, at least we can examine our own perspectives and derive our own conclusions. Hats off to you and the many heroes, discoverers and simply out-there explorers who have helped to solve these mysteries, and in some cases, even save lives.
Thank you for making this channel, I myself lost someone to a tragic hiking accident. I believe these incidents are more common, and the public should be informed on the dangers of mother nature and how serious we need to take outdoor adventures. Thank you for giving warnings and explaining risks of the wild.
it's like parents leaving their child in a hot car, a gun in an unsafe spot, hot tea on the table... No amount of warning will help, it's the incidental death which teaches most people - sadly. Like seeing is believing. Most of these people must have been told, or could've known. DEATH valley...
I'm a logger in northern California's remote mountains. The things I've seen people do. My favorite from them, "It's fine, we have four wheel drive." My favorite from me (a few hours later after I go looking for them), "Well... you can stay here with your stuck four wheel drive and die or you can let me rescue you. Your choice." And some of them stay with their rig. They're usually a little more open to being rescued the next day after spending a freezing night in their rig.LOL
@@APersonOnRUclipsX I wouldn't even bother to rescue them at all, unless they had kids. They ignored common sense and a warning from someone who knows better? They can deal with it themselves.
@Wobblesandbeans Would you trust every stranger despite being warned of cartels and other mad people? Let’s not blame them for something that we call others stupid for.
I live in the desert a few hours away from death valley and even in my area, it'll hit 125 during summer with 30-75% humidity. I've also saw videos on this years ago prior to 2020. i forgot all about this case.
I came across Tom's blog several years ago when I did a deep dive into Death Valley. Such a haunting story but Tom's investigation what so thorough and methodical. Glad you covered this!
I did the same thing maybe 6 or 7 years ago and spent an entire day at work reading the whole blog; thankfully it was just a plain-looking document and my boss had no idea!
I've hiked numerous times in Phoenix which has two seasons. Summer and Super Summer. I can imagine what it's like to have a hike in Death Valley National Park. When I lived in Phoenix visitors would look at me like I was crazy for wearing a long sleeved shirt and jeans while they were wearing shorts and t-shirts. Jokes on them, I was cooled down while they were overheating and suffering heat strokes.
I live by china lake and the main part of the base is miles away from Death Valley, even trying to get there would be almost impossible for anyone to reach
I live in Arizona and lemme tell you- tourists almost never take the desert seriously. We (as a state) are always trying to rescue idiots hiking at the hottest time of the year without hiking experience and a dangerously low amount of water. EDIT: tourism isn’t a bad thing. But stupid tourists are still stupid if they’ve been warned and hike ill-prepared anyway. The taxes spent on the rescues aren’t quite as bad as I thought so I’ll drop that point, but I’ll note the city pays for the rescues unless the hikers get an ambulance.
While it's not always a serious thing, tourists not taking their destination and its locales seriously is very common. Most of the time, it just leads to annoying or embarrassing situations, but sometimes they do something so monumentally stupid, it gets them hurt or even killed. Tourists just don't care. They're so set on having an enjoyable, relaxing vacation, they have a bad tendency to flaunt the local rules of the place they're visiting like it somehow doesn't apply to them and things will be fine. Like them being on vacation gives them some kind of superpower where nothing bad can happen to them until it inevitably bites them in the ass.
Just this past summer a motorcyclist tried to cross Death Valley. He didn’t get lost but the temperature was so hot that he died from hyperthermia. People found him and tried to help but his core temperature was too high and he was already unconscious. Ambulance services were hours away and The temperature was so high that helicopters couldn’t safely land and take off because air density is too low for the rotors to create lift.
They might have left the kids in the shade somewhere like a small cave and tried to hike in the heat to the base. The gf might have even stayed with the kids but when the bf didn’t come back she ventured out herself. Just some theories
The children probably perished prior to their parents since their bodies are smaller and weaker. I assume their bones were never found since they are easy for scavengers. Just horrifying to think how awful their last few days must have been
@@michaelblankenau6598 There's caves everywhere. Unlike videogames or movies, caves are very small. It's reasonable to not consider them caves based on their size.
I don't know, I'd give this situation less than 4 hours. There are a ton of coyotes around Furnace Creek, I'm sure there are birds of prey out there too.
Great coverage of a missing person case I am fairly familiar with. I have followed Tom Mahoud's adventures for quite a few years. Here are a couple small details I noticed in your report that probably weren't quite right. First, the ranger that spotted the van while on an air patrol was probably in a helicopter if he landed anywhere near the van as there is nowhere nearby for a small plane to land. Also, at the very end you mentioned that people should not venture into unknown territory. The guide that the Germans bought showed the road past the mining camps and up and over Mengel Pass as well as the road down which they drove and got stuck. The map they were following was not meant to be used for navigation and was out of date as the road they ended up on had been closed to traffic for years even though it was still on the map in the guidebook they purchased.
What nonsense … he was German and it was US beer … same as water … what should he have done? Leave it forth the kids and drink their water? It was 1996 … adults drink beer … kids water! You cannot see it from a 2024 perspective … thats nonsense!
@@GanymedeXD "You cannot see it from a 2024 perspective...." 😂 I was 21 years old in 96 and grew up in SoCal. I'm very familiar with hiking in the desert and drinking in the 90's. But..... maybe you're right. Drinking beer in the desert is a super smart decision. You should go do it and prove me wrong.
@@GanymedeXD Alcohol and carbonation both exacerbate dehydration rather than make it better, which makes beer a doubly bad thing to drink in summer in a desert. And that's not become less true since 1996.
I drove cross country on pavement the whole way but was worried about car trouble in an area with no cellular coverage, so I bought a personal locator beacon. My daughter thought I was nuts. Imagine if this family had one.
Yes, PLB is a fine idea. There was a case several years ago near me in highly populated Southern California where someone drove off busy Hwy 60 on a curvy hilly area nicknamed the Badlands, and nobody found her vehicle for many days. But for this family on what seemed to be an unplanned venture off-road in Death Valley in 1996, their technology-aided options were limited.
Yes I drove across country In the late 90s and just taking I-80 across the country there were 100 or longer mile stretches With no water, no rest stops, no gas stations, and no shade whatsoever. no greenery. you could pee in the middle of the road because You'd see a car coming long before it could see you. but if you didn't know there were no signs warning you Or if you were looking for signs other than green and white official signs you could miss the warning no gas station for the next 100 miles. those were posted on the existing gas stations to Drama business as much as warn people and so if you add three quarters of a tank you might not even glance at the gas station. there were no official government signs saying the danger and if I had run out of gas there it was winter so I would have frozen to death or died of dehydration and hypothermia rather than dehydration and hypothermia. I had pets with me too. I would not Willingly drive as I did if I had had a choice. nor would I ever go again without a Personal locator device. I'd be better parking on the side of the road for naps instead of a hotel and using the money for that GPS If I had to choose for financial reasons. and I promise you if you drove along across those same plains and mountains you would be thinking the same thing now. I think a lot of us would have some idea how to prepare for winter and I did build quite the winter survival kit. I plan to be able to survive at least a week with my two little dogs and parrot buried under snow on the side of the road. but summer there's a lot less you can do. The amount of water you'd need would be very heavy to tow across the country and there would be no shade to protect you and no way to air condition your vehicle With it being parked on the motor off. There are just so many things that are so much more deadly in the summer amazingly.
I took a roadtrip through Death Valley in fall and even then, it was hot! Those lonely roads were eerie because I didnt see a vehicle for miles and it would have sucked breaking down
I used to be unsure about your channel BUT the more I watch, the more your videos are constantly on throughout all of my days. The way you tell the stories whilst remaining so respectful is fantastic. We appreciate you shining light on how dangerous and relentless Mother Nature can be
Shame on the cops who scolded him for putting in the time and effort to help solve the case. He is a grown man who makes his own decisions. He didn't break any laws. If he chooses to put himself in harms way to help bring closure to the case, then i applaud him. Outstanding job sir!!!
What could they do? If they thanked him, then there would be a wave of other people trying to solve some mysteries. At least what they did was safe and did not put other people in danger, even though it could have been handled better.
@@personifiedmarvel6964 - What these old guys did was NOT safe in the least! One twisted ankle, one episode of heart palpitations from the extreme heat, one snakebite and DOZENS of Search & Rescue People would have immediately mobilized to save their sorry butts. They were, in a word: LUCKY. The next word is INCONSIDERATE, and follow that up with just plain STUPID. Mother Nature will ALWAYS prevail in extreme conditions like these, the odds are with the House. That is why Search & Rescue endevour to get out there as fast as the can, every last one of them: the odds are ALWAYS that it will be a RECOVERY (of a corpse) and not a Rescue. It is ALWAYS a race against DEATH. and the rescuers are at as great of risk of losing their lives as the "victims". often even more so. Whether at the edge of town or at the edge of civilization, someone will volunteer to save a strangers life at the possible cost of their own, do it gladly, simply for it's own reward, sometimes just for a memorial on the wall inside some lonely Fire Hall given posthumously. Idiots that think they'll beat ALL the odds who walk out into the Desert with 100 pounds of water on their back, a couple of Band-Aids and a compass need to get HEFTY FINES when they are discovered. Add one day in jail for every person that was, or would have been called out to help get their "fat out of the fire", and maybe there would be less such foolishness. Or, maybe consider just leaving them out there, if they truly knew the risks.
It's the "nanny complex" that government officials always seem to have. If you're an every day civilian citizen, you are assumed to be an idiot. You are a child to them and they are your nanny that knows better. This attitude makes them feel superior and that therefore helps to bloat their smug egos. I mean they've had training and whatever!! Ummm, we can be trained too and also know what the F we're doing, just like them. I disagree with their attitudes, obviously.
@@personifiedmarvel6964if other people want to go out looking, who are they to stop them, at least as long as they stick to areas it's legal to be? I absolutely have the right to go out and die in the desert if I so choose. The government isn't there to keep you from doing things just because they're not safe for yourself.
Another factor many people don't consider beforehand: you can't count on cell phone reception for VAST areas out there. I was there (Death Valley [Furnace Creek]) with my wife & son roughly around the time the later searcher was probably formulating his theories. It was wintertime and we stayed in well traveled places, but I think we went about a week with no contact with the outside world until we got close to Pahrump, NV on the way back to our flight out of Las Vegas.
I read the guy's blog...wow. You could do another video on what happened after Ms. Meyer's remains were found. That was a LOT of work over a very long time. The dedication to finding them is commendable.
I've always had a healthy appetite for going down rabbit holes. Was on a subgroup on Reddit showcasing bones and in the comments were talking about the mystery of the Death Valley Germans. Tom's OtherHand blog was linked and last night went down the rabbit hole into the story. While I stayed up late past sleep time, I finished the story earlier this morning and have since been watching videos to gain other perspectives. Tom is a SAR member and if you haven't read his blog on this mystery or even the others he has assisted in, I highly recommend it!
The government that couldn't find this family has no business scolding these men for finding them. What an abuse of authority. I hate this "for your own protection" crap.
Their attitude reminds me of when Mel Fisher's team found the sunken treasure galleon _Atocha_ . Bureaucrats in the state of Florida said, "Um, that belongs to us." But they had never done a darn thing to find it.
@@DarkMatterBurrito And your best chance of being found is by the sort of volunteer rescue team that is NOT affiliated with the government. The government has the material resources, but actual government or military personnel with the search and rescue expertise are in extremely short supply.
@@fast_richard most search and rescue teams are Sheriff's dept volunteers (or even reserves). I suspect that any grief they got was due to the fact that they got a hold of information that was part of the official search and wasn't meant to be shared to people who weren't involved. Random hikers find clues all the time for old cases - like w/ Bill Ewasko.
![[DRAGON BALL LEGENDS REVEALS ＆ STUFF] LEGENDS FESTIVAL 2024 Special Edition Part 1](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/mV5bGIswTtQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Dear Tourists: We're not that imaginative with naming places. So if we call something "Death Valley" or "Devils Den" or "Famine Peak"... beware. There's some obvious backstory involved.
You are not wrong. I live in WV, and there’s an area about 25 miles north of me that’s known as “Murder Mountain.” I brought it up to an exchange student friend of mine from the Philippines, and he asked me why we called it that. I told him, “Because people had been murdered on it.”
Ahh yes good old knife point,
Neither are us germans. We just put words together like Lego. So they should have guessed.
There is a mountain range called "the sleeping Virgin". You can take a guess how it looks.
This must have been a very tragic ending for them 😰 maybe the childrens bodies gave up first and the parents buried them.
Horrible thought but the „best“ guess under these circumstances, would’ve been even more horrible if a child survived the parents.
Unimaginable 😰 but these searchers are superheroes to me ❤️❤️
Americans are always totally exaggerating with their shit. Heck, you call a 100 year old house "historic". So no, the names of places are dramatic, but nowhere close to reality. Fail.
People who never give up finding the missing, who reject ending the search and want to bring closure, answers and the people back... they are the silent heroes.
You should look into David Paulides and the missing 411...if u haven't heard about all that yet. Very very intriguing stuff!
Exactly. And these two chaps got dope slapped for their efforts, instead of a simple "thank you".
I extremely disagree. There is not a nary hero or heroin that is silent you fool. 4:56
@@dtaylor10chuckufarle Yep. Not to mention the fact that it is entirely legal to hike the backcountry of the National Parks! Just be sure you know what you're doing and are fully prepared.
whether or not a horse would’ve solved the pr
To give you an idea of how hot Death Valley can get, there are numerous RV camper rental agencies who specifically won't let you drive them through Death Valley because the temperatures get hot enough to melt/deform the vehicle's plastic paneling and sealants.
Interesting
That was the case when I took an RV up into the Mojave many years ago.
@@leosmith848 "Patrolling the Mojave makes me wish for a nuclear winter."
Lol real Life though I love the heat, I shiver at 75F ffs
Here's a better way to explain to euros, it reaches 60c
@@ScootsMcPoot 140°F? No. The record is 134°F which is 56.7°C
As a German who's been to the US, I can tell you that we are not used to the sheer scale of things in the US. In Germany it's hard to go anywhere where there isn't some small village a few kilometers away at the most, and maybe 10 km from the nearest Autobahn. (Look up the English Calamity that happened in 1936 where a group of English students got 'lost' in the Black Forest, they met half a dozen people and came across several dwellings during their day of hiking. After the alarm was raised that they needed help, they were all found within 3 hours. (still too late for some)). Germany is on a entirely different scale than the US.
For comparison: The biggest national park in Germany is 123 square miles, just NYC is over twice that with 300 sqm.
They only had paper maps, and if they were only used to German maps, I can see how they misjudged the distances so severely. If there were lots of labeled point on them like the military base, they might have assumed that there was more infrastructure than there actually was.
Also, they were used to kilometers, not miles. If they saw a distance of 8 miles and assumed it was just 8 kilometers (~5miles), that would have factored into how they determined if a trek was possible or not.
Obviously they made bad choices and mistakes, they should have realized they were in over their heads waaaay before they even made it far into Death Valley.
This is just for the people wondering how they thought this was a good idea. They probably had a completely different frame of reference with how they were judging distances and the weather. (Until the past couple of years, temperatures in the high 90ies were unheard of in Germany, that was a freak occurrence. When I was in school in the early 00s a day with 95F had kids rioting to be let out of school early (and I live in the very south in basically the hottest place in the entire country and that was unusually hot for us))
I can't imagine having so many people and buildings around. I live in a large city in southern Arizona, but I'm out in the middle of nowhere in an hour.
those of us on the east coast have a hard time too with the vast differences out west, so don't feel bad. have been all over Europe myself, never felt lost even when I was lost.
Thanks for that explanation. It certainly does make sense. I lived on the East Coast and when I traveled to the west coast last winter, it was an extremely different terrain Arizona is nothing like Pennsylvania.
Thanks for explaining those differences. It does make it clearer why they might have made the choices that they did. It's really sad what happened to them.
Vos Es Los Duetch Mien Hier Gutten Morgen. Do Verstien KillZone. NENA Ich Libre Dich Sien Hunden. Shatsei.
I worked at Death Valley over the winter, before it became a National Park. It was a Monument at the time.
The place was super popular with Germans. Though one day, in the Spring I found a car broke down on a remote road.
They recommend you carry at least 1 gallon of water per person in you car at all times. It is (or was) actually illegal to not stop and give assistance yo someone stranded in the desert.
I found a family of 4 (s adults, two kids) broke down on the side of the road. I stopped and asked how long they had been there and how much water they had. About half an hour and none.
I gave them both gallons of my water and told them to drink it all between them, even if they didn't feel thirsty.
I then left to call for help. I picked up 4 more gallons of water 2 to replace what I had given away, and 2 more for the family.
The tow truck showed up in about an hour, with us all talking and drinking our water. The tow truck driver handed out even more water. The dad laughed making fun of how obsessed we were about water. I said, "In this place, when it's hot and dry like it is now, if you find yourself stranded without water in the morning, you will be dead before sunset. Drink more water.
This place is seriously intense. Temperatures can climb to over 125 degrees every day, and temperatures over 130 are not rare. With humidity of around 0.25% you don't get thirsty before your brain begins to be effected by your dehydration.
It's a bit safer these days (opposed to 35 years ago) with cell phones, but service can be spotty, and it is so hot, it can cause your cell phone to shut down.
Let someone know where you are going and when you expect to be back, even if it's the Ranger Station. That way, if you get stuck, they can send a rescue to you before it becomes a body recovery. Just make sure you check in so they know you are safe.
Also, take water. Lots and lots of water.
And yea, I know this story. I didn't know the resolution though.
living up at arctic latitudes can't relate to dessert heat, but I know about irresponsible tourists, when it is colder than -35 in snowstorm you have litterally minutes to live with light cloghing (something like jeans and a sweater), even walking briskly at best have 45 minutes before you can't move anymore, and half that time before you have severely degraded mental abilities.
we try telling people and yet...
a tourist was found last winter, dead in a snowdrift, he went out to walk a mere 280m in a snowstorm, he was wearing just a linnen shirt and suit pants, he thought he knew better, "just going to the corner store for snacks". walking 200m in summef is easy, but in a storm like that, they, can drop 25cm/hour, slogging through knee deep snow is slow work, and in clothes like that you get wet all over from your bodyheat initially melting snow, then wet snow packs onto that which cools you like a full body ice pack, now ad storm winds at near huricane speeds... almost cartoon parody, you know the "instant human ice block" .
Thank you for your interesting input! Cool story!
@@speaklifegardenhomesteadpe8783 freezing cold even
18 July 2024
Worked in Saudi Arabia for 4 years. 10 liters (about 2.5 gallons) per day was recommended for driving in the desert.
Now back in Sacramento California. About a week ago, the temperature was 110F / 43C. Temperature in Death Valley was reported in a YT video as about 130F / 54C with people flocking there for the heat. I understand there were some deaths.
@@RobertJarecki The really big problem with Death Valley comes more from the humidity (or rather lack of it).
I have personally seen humidity bellow 1% in Death Valley. It is so dry you really don't need a towel as when you get out of the pool, by the time you walk to where your towel is, you are already dry.
It feels like you are not sweating because perspiration evaporates too quickly. On top of that, you don't feel thirsty.
They don't call it Death Valley for nothing.
As a German, I first, have never heard of this (might be a bit too young), and second, can assure you that it would too easy for any European really to underestimate a desert. We just don't have the "great outdoors" and surely no desert anywhere near. Most Europeans will never experience one in their lifetime, surely not in the 90s. I can easily see how they underestimated whatever they tried to do and died.
The same warnings apply for European tourists in central Australia. There are good roads between major cities and big towns, but poor dirt roads to most other places; and little shade or drinkable water in the summer when it's 100-120F. Even night time temperatures can be mid 80'sF. On the longer desert main roads, you often see signs saying "NEXT PETROL xxx KMS" and you'd best not ignore them.
@@hectorpascal There are similar signs like that all over the western US, albeit they're labeled "NO SERVICES NEXT ___MILES" in ominous capital lettering. (The longest stretch of uninterrupted US Interstate is about 215 miles long, or about 346 kilometers)
Those signs always spooked me as a kid when my family would drive through the deserts near the Utah border. There's not much out there aside from maybe a ghost town or two. Gas/Petrol stations near huge serviceless stretches of the interstate will stock all sorts of things if you're caught without something important, like gallon jugs of water, pet food, non-perishables, first aid supplies...the list goes on.
Now that i think about it, the deserts here in the US do bear some similarities to the deserts in Australia at least climate-wise (American deserts are notably lacking in the taipan and roided up alpha male red kangaroo departments, plus the elevations here are a bit higher) so i'd imagine the average Aussie might be better prepared than the average European, or at least able to shrug off the heat with plenty of water.
@@hectorpascal as a german i would definetly underestimate fahrenheit and miles. at some point i already stopped caring about googling "20miles in kilometers" and just settled with "its a bit more than 20km" - why do we even have diffrent metrics 😭
@@zoe.lilith I agree wholeheartedly about universal use of the metric system. But the other thing all Europeans (except uk and ie) would be unhappy about, is that Australians still drive on the left hand side of the road!
There are a multitude of signs all over the park saying that driving there is prohibited because of the danger. These people would have driven past all of them, thinking they knew better. They also did not bring water, but alcohol, which is absurd. Stop making excuses for these people. I live in California. I've never been to the antarctic, yet common sense says I shouldn't just wander off into the snow and ice without proper gear. It doesn't take a genius to know that you need to bring water into a desert and not take your car off road into a prohibited area.
I can't even imagine their horror when the realization of their fate set in...especially having your two small children with you. May they rest in peace.
I agree. It must have been awful for them.
awful for everyone involved, obviously. but the last one alive, must have been absolutely tormented.
💛🙏💛
My thoughts are who died first, I know that sounds harsh but who was the last one to die?... Evil thoughts sorry
Omg ! I thought of that too ...
I'm an eagle scout with over 800 miles of hiking while doing that. After i turned 18 i continued hiking and im 33 now. I've hiked places all across America. I always warn foreigners to be extra careful when hiking because our trails and our parks can be thousands of miles or millions of acres. Sometimes people don't realize how truly large and sparce a lot of America is
I remember when I hiked up to Carr Peak in Arizona. It was me and a friend. On the way down, he said "let's take a shortcut" We ended up on a cliff and lost. We began the trail at noon and finally found his car at 9 PM... Last time I follow someone who decides to take a "shortcut"
Some years ago a colleague was excitedly telling us (Limeys) about her forthcoming first ever trip to America, and all the things she wanted to see - New York, the Great Lakes, the Big Muddy, Chicago, Grand Canyon, Mount Rushmore, Vegas, and Frisco. (and a few other, less well known places, like Gettysburg and Atlanta)
Something made me ask how long she was going for. One week....... I sensitively suggested she prune her itinerary a little......
@@JohnDavies-cn3romy family’s from Ireland and when my aunts came to visit, they were expecting to do all those things, my father looked at them and said “you do realize, Ireland fits in our state five times and would take the entire day, just to get out of our state” 😂 took them a minute to get it
@@JohnDavies-cn3ro
@@NekoHazrd I was hiking with a friend that wanted to do some _shortcut bushwhacking_ on our way back and I said I'd be staying on the trail but he was welcome to bushwhack on his own and I'd meet him at the bottom of the hill/mountain.
He kept strongly trying to get me to bushwhack with him. Saying look, we can see the trail from here and this way is shorter.
I advised him that looks can be deceiving and there may be a lot of stuff between here and there we are not able to see from here.
Things like high bush, impenetrable thorn bushes, large patches of mud/quicksand, small or large bodies of water...
He kept insisting and I kept telling him to go ahead and that I wasn't stopping him.
He decided to stay with me and we both made it back safely.
I am pretty sure I did both of us a favor.
You are skilled at turning what should be a 10 minute story into a 30+ minute story. Kudos.
Lmao for real so much fluff
Read the blog of the man who solved it. It took far longer than 10 minutes.
@ hey genuine question. Are you stupid?
There's actually a somewhat common problem of people on poorly maintained desert roads getting confused by a wash, thinking it is another road. There's actually been a lot of deaths not from hikers but from drivers who turned off a road onto a wash and didn't realize it until they are lost or stuck. It's a well known phenomenon because sometimes people with cell phones are able to get a signal and call for help if they aren't too remote. It's just the way the run off paths during the rare rains causes these smooth natural paths through the landscape that with other atmospheric factors can look indistinguishable from man made dirt roads.
Wow, i had no clue how it is made. Thank you!
@Lugeix I highly doubt Nan Dixon's disappearance was from bad driving. Pieces of electrical tape, some had hair and possible human tissue attached. Bloodstains in the trunk and wheels and other places. An unsigned suicide note.. I'm not convinced her death was an accident. It just doesn't add up
🔓 NEW FEAR UNLOCKED
Good to know…
"Poorly maintained" That's not only an understatement, but also a misrepresentation. A lot of "numbered roads", that do appear on Google Maps, are not roads in the normal sense. Many are unpaved dirt roads at best. Many are jeep trails. I've been on many, as I've explored the California deserts, not too far from Death Valley. As a kid in the San Gabriel Mountains, in the 1970s, we use to hike many so-called roads, that have the "N" prefix (such as N4). They are dirt hiking paths, at best. I wouldn't even take a 4WD vehicle on them, unless you have a lot of experience. Welcome to the western United States !
It's named Death Valley for a reason. It should be avoided during summer.
Common sense , right??😂
"Survival of the fittest" both mentaly and physically. right?! RIP. Sad.
Wait you mean people die there? I thought they named it that to be clever. 😂
Not really safe to visit off trails and roads at anytime. Most dangerous thing about Death Valley now is the 10,000-50,000 abandoned mines you can fall into.
@@JustSara376 i would "lol" if it wasnt sad.
Having used a doge grand caravan as a farm vehicle for several years let me tell you: a V6 front wheel drive minivan can do terrain that you would never expect and it will go go go until it can't. I can absolutely see a family getting turned around, maybe thinking that they need to back track instead of continue through because of a lack of fuel, or something, going off the road figuring it would be shorter and they could find their way back again, getting disoriented, and driving deeper and deeper into the desert until the heat finally killed the tires.
The first rule in Search & Rescue is: Do Not Make Yourself Another Victim. We’re taught that on day 1 and it’s drilled into us by our instructors.
When the browns are down, 😅don't come around. Browns are Sheriff Deputies in trouble.
#1 Safety
I commend you for signing up for this sort of thing. Takes a caring person.
Mahood worked with the Riverside Mountain Rescue Unit for a while, so he was definitely familiar with this rule. Edit: this is now the second time that I've written something about him mere seconds before Kyle mentions it in the video.
Even just in general I remember being told to "look after number one, because you can't help anyone if you need help, yourself"
The children likely succumbed a day or so before the adults. I think the reason that no one found their remains is that the parents might have buried them knowing they'd likely never be found.
Yes totally agree. it wouldn't have taken much and the alternative would have been to leave the babies on that open plain of sand and seeing those lonely little bodies Disappearing behind them would have been too much. So even knowing they were wasting precious Time and body water they would have dug little holes with their hands ---unless they held them until they died too And all were scattered by the same means. Small dehydrated bones don't weigh much and could easily be blown around just like sand.
Alternatively, and it's a grim thought, they are small enough that they could have just been dragged off by wild animals. I don't know how much actually lives out there, but some sort of small wild dog or fox could be possible in that environment, or more likely large carrion birds come in and carry away most of them.
Exactly i bet the accidentally bumped into a cartel trafficking something they shouldn't have seen
@@dafoex Coyotes are a plausibility, but if they weren't buried, I would also bet vultures.
@@bensmith5720 Not a chance. The area is so remote and hostile no other human would live out there. No shot they encountered anything other than wildlife and a complete lack of water.
I rarely react to share feelings about a story.
I was impressed by Mahood's (sp?) reading of the topography and diligence and hiking effort and research and his ability to get into the minds of the stranded Germans. I’ve 4-wheeled the dirt roads of Death Valley. Three days ago, I returned from a 3-day solo off-trail trip in the high Sierra, where I committed a few near errors. That sort of technical stuff is what usually interests me; been studying topographic maps for 5 decades.
But, watching this video, I was instead captured and saddened by my glimpse of the horror that the Germans likely felt as they walked: the horror and panic and who knows what emotions follow as logical thinking no longer serves and the water runs out and the terrain ahead goes on forever.
Legitimately one of the most heartbreaking and tragic but totally preventable cases in national parks history. I worked in Death Valley National Park for 3 years as a ranger before transfering and the amount of tourists who tried to hike with very little water was astounding. I personally was part of 2 missing persons/body recoverys while there in the mid 2000s.
I know you mean well but I use the term visitor or resident, when I rescue people.
Heartbreaking.
A lot of people do not realize that water doesn't really hydrate you. We've been lied to. Our body is mostly water. The H30 in fruit hydrates Your body better than water.So no matter how much water you take it could still be your fate out in those conditions This versus water and fruit and because we have been lied to the entire time about water And not been told the truth about H30. This is why no matter how much water in that heat like that, It will not work as good as H30 in fruit.
Yup, always make sure you learn about the conditions in the area you visit and make appropriate preparations. Things can be very, very different elsewhere.
I just don't get it, how people can be so ignorant. Hiking in extreme and unknown environments, as a recreational activity. With children... But then again, every year you hear about people leaving dogs, children in cars, while they go shopping, whatever. Autopilot, something like that...
My dad lived in vegas for years when i was about 9-14urs old. We went threw death valley several times, usually during summer break. I remember my dad telling us as we drove past the sign that we could NEVER stop, NEVER turn off our car and if our car broke down to stay with the car and never walk away. I was terrified of death valley for years thinking everytime we drove threw we were gonna die. My dad always had like 6 gallons of water in the back at all times.. just in case for us or the car. Ive still never actually stopped there. I couldnt imagine the horror these ppl felt. 😥
I learned to take an extra bottle of engine coolant too when in a very hot desert. Don't ask me how I know this....
Omg yes. People don’t realize today just how dangerous it was to drive through there even on many of the paved roads back then. Cars today can easily handle it but just 30 years ago, the heat could easily take out a car and even if your cooling system held up, it could cause the fuel consumption to go way up and I remember when I was kid and we went through there, it was common for gas stations to be a hundred miles apart or more and they would often be closed, or closed at night so there was no messing around just getting through that area.
I'm from San Bernardino County originally, my parents would sometimes drive through Death Valley on the rare vacations we took (one of them being to Vegas). Every time we drove past Death Valley, I was always kinda fascinated with it but it was a fearful fascination. It didn't look different from where I had lived (SB county is very very desert-y for those who've never been), but I knew from a really young age it was so much dangerous than my hometown. It was understood that if you're in Death Valley and you get stuck there, or if you're simply there by yourself, you're done for. My mom's best friend and her boyfriend actually had their car break down there once. Thankfully, they were only stranded for a couple hours before a person drove by and helped them out. I remember when my mom told me that, I got really scared and asked, "why were they there in the first place?!" I was really young but even then I understood that they got very, very lucky. I don't live in Cali anymore, but I still have a little bit of a fascination with Death Valley. I'd like to drive through it again, but only with a full tank of gas and water just in case. The desert is cool looking, even beautiful at times, but it is fucking scary.
I am a german myself, while I am sure those guys would have been terrified I am also 100% sure that at some point one of the grown ups looked at the other and saif something among the lines of "Trotzdem nett hier" (Despite everything, nice here). We are usually taught from a young age to embrace the beauty despite everything else happening around us. Didn`t help them survive, but probably still a nice afterthought when thinking about the case.
Yup
i work for the arizona highway patrol, and we had a vacationer from China take an indian route, approx 50 miles off the interstate, and then lost gps, signal, and followed that road over 100 miles into empty desert because he mistook the off-roading trail for an actual road. if it weren't for cell phones that dude would have 1000% died out there with no one having any idea where he was,.
Tourists do the strangest things. While hiking I ran across a family from Japan that had wandered onto a jeep trail in the Pike National Forest near where I live. Their car was high centered and they had to walk a few miles to cell coverage and call someone to come get them. I'm sure that was a bad day.
Isn't america known for having unkempt roads? A disused goat track might be a reasonable consideration when you've been driving on cracked tarmac riddled with scars and squares of a few decades patchwork.
@jameswalker199 possible, but National Parks are very clear about where visitors can and cannot go.
After passing through this same desert by car in the summer, to get to Vegas, I can confirm it isn't exciting or inviting at all.
You mean tourons.
Known for marxist traitors too @@dafoex
On a 4-wheeler trail high up in the Pintler wilderness of Montana, I once came across a large RV that had gotten stuck trying to drive through a stream that crossed the road. It was actually "broken" in half as its frame had bent because the stream was of course in a small valley or ditch. I couldn't even figure out how these idiots had managed to get as far as they had. This was a one-lane, rugged, rocky trail clearly only intended for OHVs. The RV had Texas plates.
One thing worth noting, vans are actually significantly better at rough terrain than most would expect. They have a nice, long wheelbase and tend to be a bit "over built" at least relative to other vehicles that have similar purposes, like sedans. They also have pretty decent weight distribution for that sort of thing, just by nature of how they're designed. Not saying it's a suitable offroad vehicle, just that they're often significantly more capable vehicles than they would appear to be.
When I was a teenager i figured that out, I had a 1/4 ton pickup that was only rear wheel drive so when ice and snow was really bad I'd borrow my moms minivan if i could.
We have a chrysler grand voyager, pretty much the same vehicle as in this video but more modern. We have driven to places and then some guys in jeeps and landrovers etc show up with surprised looks because they think them driving on those rough roads is something special.
These minivans are really capable at off road driving in the right hands, and especially if you have an awd version which we do not.
@@rafox66 To be fair, those are probably not roads that come close to the limit of what those jeeps and land rovers can do.
But there are lots of "off roaders" who think taking their jeep down a bumpy trail is off roading.
@@simonbarabash2151 Yeah, you're right about that to be fair. I guess you could say they confuse 'off-road' with 'of road'.
Obviously a vehicle that's actually designed for off-road driving will have far more capabilities, but my point was more that you shouldn't underestimate the capabilities of other types of vehicles.
I think that I've driven my beater Peugeot 206 (small FWD hatchback) harder on the same kind of roads as the type of guys you are talking about, bumpy trails but at 80 mph. Those roads are very different from what I consider actual off-road driving.
There's off road, and then there's dirt roads. Not remotely the same thing. This was a dirt road, most cars probably could have made it out there with maybe a few tricky parts. Trying to paint this as an impossibility is a waste of time and poor narration as it brings in questions that genuinely don't matter.
"How did this van get here?"
It drove.
As soon as he said German I was like, 'ah, yep, makes sense now.' I have a German friend who regular hikes mountains on the weekend for fun who would probably take a look at Death Valley and call it easy. I've never met people with such insane wanderlust.
I regularly hiked over a mountain and back to reach my weed plug in the other valley 😂
😂 well, nature can be very beautiful, especially if it doesn't constantly tries to kill you. I try to get my 8-10km (~5 to 6,2m) in at least every other day, on foot through as much nature as I can. 😊
Also, what people also underestimate is that this happened before the internet really was a thing, so you couldn't just google questions you had or for general tips, you mostly relied on travel books and how good or bad those were.
Thinking of those poor babies in the heat, not understanding what’s happening to them, probably seeing their parents freaking out. Breaks my heart.
Hopefully they were given the alcohol to numb them towards the end.
Not just the heat.
While deserts get really hot in the day they get very cold at night.
babies are dumb they probably had no idea what is happening
@@di115
We are talking about basic senses neccessary for survival.
Babies know when they are thirsty.
They know when they are hungry.
They know when they are uncomfortable.
Uncomfortably wet, soiled, hot, cold, hurt, tired.
What they wouldn't understand it why those things weren't being corrected and that would be scary for the 5 yr old.
They are aware of those things at birth because those things evolved to keep you alive.
The husband/father was 100 percent to blame for this.
I can understand why the authorities got angry, but the man is a hero!! I'm a third generation Angeleno and I can tell you, Death Valley is even dangerous in the winter. I feel so bad for them, tourists from a very different country just trying to have a wonderful, memorable vacation. So sad. Thank you for always being compassionate when relaying these tales.
As a German... You don't need to feel bad for them. Look at Germany today and let's say... They were saved from that.
But it is nice to see compassion. Keep yourself and your precious ones safe.
No one can save the dumb and nature wins in the end. Make it a lesson for others.
@@1991YunaleskaBruh, they would have definitely preferred to be alive today.
Wtf are you on about Germany today? You think it’s worse than DEATH VALLEY?
@@caliwagg1898 I believe he was talking politics, not weather.
A question did you mean Death Valley is dangerous even in winter, or it's even more dangerous in winter?
This is the kind of thing that really worries me when I hear foreigners talking about traveling around America, they seriously underestimate the actual danger in this country and think that we as Americans are either lying or exaggerating the severity of risk that traveling through our more isolated areas pose. I can think of one case where a German female hiker almost died while on the PCT due to weather and was only saved because she had mentioned going up there to a local who became extremely concerned about the hiker's plans and called authorities who went out and found her before it was to late. Or you can look towards the very infamous case of Aron Ralston and his experience in Canyonlands which was only in the next state over.
I can't imagine the pure horror of this situation. I was 5 yrs old when my family drove from Michigan to Disneyland in 1970. In a 1970 Plymouth Cuda. No A/C. I remember riding in the backseat through a desert. Don't know which one, but the road was a straight line as far as you can see. The mirage effect and misery index was fully engaged. My little brother and I had to be let out to puke numerous times. I remember the hot air blowing on me in the backseat as we drove. On the way back to Michigan, we took a route through the northern part of U.S.
Wyoming, North Dakota, and so on. We never had a car without A/C again.
@tedwlkr8 Somewhere in the Texas panhandle there are two sets of clothes buried.
Traveling from California to New Jersey in a new 1956 Ford station wagon (no AC), I was between Dad and Mom in the front seat. I started saying I was going to throw up. Dad wouldn't stop bc he said I was faking. Mom said, "Okay,just throw up on your father."
Dad didn't stop and I did as I was told.
I haven’t been back, but I think the road that goes through Death Valley is a straight one. At least if my memory from 14 years ago is still correct (it probably isn’t because my memory is garbage) but then again, this was in 2010 and we had a car that had the power of modern ac technology...and slightly glazed brakes that were fixed by doing a (very sudden) brake check at speed. That was fun.
In California you definitely went through the Mojave at some point (same desert as Death Valley and Las Vegas). If you were down more on like I-10 especially in Arizona, you went through the Sonoran, Utah/Wyoming/etc. with the high desert is Great Basin in the Basin and Range. You would have had to go to Texas and parts of New Mexico for the Chihuahuan Desert. So depending on the route you took, you definitely went through the Mojave (and likely the Great Basin on the way back), and might have actually hit every single major desert in the Continental US on the way there if you went south to I-10 and then west to Anaheim. If you took I-40, you may have skirted around the Sonoran and Chihuahuan deserts, but still would have been in the Mojave. You would have definitely been pressured to stop at the Petrified Forest or go to Sedona with the vibrant red rocks or check out Route 66 or the like along the way. It would be much more mountainous and forested unlike the rest of Arizona which is desert and chaparral/scrub. Any other route pretty much requires you to go over the Rockies at a much higher elevation than Raton Pass on the NM/CO border or at the Continental Divide near Silver City or the road between Santa Fe and Albuquerque. All of those areas are a bit awkward for a car not used to steep hills, but aren't like mountain switchbacks (though Raton Pass to Trinidad, CO is a bit mountainous and daunting. Driving through the Rockies from CO into Utah to not go into Arizona to reach Disneyland would have meant going over passes between some of the highest mountains in the Continental US and you would have remembered that for sure. So, likely you went around the Rockies to the south via New Mexico and Arizona. Your description actually sounds a bit like the technically not desert chaparral area between Tucson, AZ and Deming, NM or the cutoff route that connects up to I-25 between Deming and Hatch going up to Truth or Consequences. Though it also kinda resembles the drive from Yuma to San Diego, that is on I-8 not I-10, and you take I-10 to Anaheim.
The Sonoran is a lot more green than the Mojave or Chihuahuan, with saguaros 🌵 and quite a few short trees with small leaves like mesquite and a lot of cacti and shrubs and succulents (like agave and yucca). Weird plants tend to abound in the Sonoran Desert.
The Mojave will have more in the way of tree-like yucca than trees and it is much drier so the plants are more sparse. It is more likely to have areas that are mostly sand and even to have dunes in areas. To me the Mojave just feels like a more generic desert but with lots of yucca and a fair amount of creosote.
I don't have as much personal experience with the Chihuahuan Desert. I have only been to Texas a couple times. It is more like the Mojave than the Sonoran.
The Great Basin I also have less experience with, but it is a high desert, which means much cooler but just as dry. This is much of the Badlands and such, and it looks like sparse scrub or a lot of cool geology from what I have seen.
@@samarnadrawow! That’s a lot. In 1977 my family moved from MS to Washington State. I remember a desert that seemed to go on forever. I remember the mirages and it seems like I remember people stopped on the side of the road because their vehicle ran hot. But I was 7 so…not too sure on that. I do remember the vomiting tho. I didn’t make it out of the car. 🤢
We went to Anaheim first to visit my new step grandparents. I remember just a tiny bit of Disney Land.
I also remember driving up mountains and how crazy that looked to a little girl who had never been out of MS. 14 months later, we made the drive back. I wish I could remember more.
You had intelligent parents, with excellent taste in cars.
Actually, it was stuck on a old dirt road that followed a dry wash back to Warm Springs Camp on the main road. It had been closed by the Park Rangers for at least 10 years to reclaim the land. The van was stuck near the Geologists' Cabin. The German male didn't know that the track (road) was closed because his map showed it as a short cut back to Warm Springs Camp.
Are u thinking he went that short cut and didn’t realize the cabin was near?
@@leahlewis6487I seem to remember from the blog that this contributed to why the search was so off. The family had stopped or signed a logbook at a cabin they had passed and I think the place was still stocked. So they maybe could have hunkered down there a for awhile which is why the military base theory became so significant. The guy didn't just want shelter, but people.
Valid reason to check your map for recent printing. Make sure you're not using an old map
@@suzannetf The military base is like 39 miles away and not 9 miles. I don't think that was a part of the Germans story. I think they came across real trafficing criminals or were followed to that location, taken and father was left to die.
@@suzannetfyes you're correct. I watched a RUclipsr channel he told and explained from A to Z. They got to the cabin but they never stayed etc.
Authorities look for the spot light but ordinary people follow their hearts moved by compassion and empathy for human beings and animals. Such a sad story . Something about her picture . She looks so sad. Great video. Much success.
I don't know, in Australia we have signs for tourists like 400 kilometres to the next petrol station. To pass this point have at least 2 spare tyres, 20 litres of water, in case of an emergency NEVER leave your car, call this number to tell the local police of your plans etc.
We have similar signs in the South Western U.S. Next Gas Station 100 miles, Turn off AC next 20 miles to avoid overheating, Call this Number for Weather information. Doesn't mean tourists read them or bother to follow them.
@@M60gunner1971 Take your meds
@@M60gunner1971 what the …???
Yay for Australia 🦘
This is a national park. There aren't any services outside of the main entrances. There are many dirt roads for explorers and it's easy to mistake a wash for a road.
I've known Europeans who would be preparing to fly to New York City and try to plan a "day trip" for Orlando because they'd "be in the area." I can completely understand them underestimating the distance even with a map. Those poor people.
Yeah, I don't think Europeans can even conceive the fact that there are more than 3 THOUSAND miles between New York and LA. I'm not sure but I don't think the entire continent of Europe is that wide from east to western-most point. Point is, America is massive....
Honest to God, people in the U.S. do the same thing. I live in N. Florida and will have friends from another state go to Miami. They get a hold of me and say "Hey, we'll be in Florida, want to meet for lunch?. I'm like "I would love to but I'm not driving 8 hours to go to lunch".
@@0116Lori See, but that's just small states not understanding big states (I live in Texas so I know this pain) but to think you could pop into a state on the opposite side of the country for a day trip is hilariously off.
I met a doctor who accepted a residency in Buffalo because it's close to Manhattan.
Not as close as he thought, it's a six-plus hour drive.
@@0116Lori Florida is freaking endless. Atlanta is the same distance from the Chicago metro as Miami.
I grew up in Ridgecrest, China Lake. I went back for a High School reunion and I took my wife up to Lone Pine for some Ice Cream. On our way back we decided to take the scenic route through the Coso Mountains and skirting just west of Death Valley. We were having a blast in a Mustang convertible, just cruising and vibing, when all of a sudden, the pavement ended. This is the main road north and south on the way to Trona. Having grown up out here, I was aware that this road goes all the way through, so I had a moment of doubt, wondering if we needed to backtrack, or to go forward. We decided to keep going and keep an eye out for a road sign. Fortunately there was one within a few miles but man, I thought about these Germans when we were making that decision.
The children were probably small enough for scavenging animals to scatter their remains easier than that of the adults. The elements also destroy DNA in the picked over bones, which is why it's not a surprise that the incomplete remains were only enough to identify one of them. The few animals that venture into that barren landscape will make the most of remains. Also, pretty sure vultures are known to break apart and scatter bones when they eat the marrow as well as the contents of skulls. So yeah... You aren't going to find much of a person unless you find them fairly quickly. What a sad case and horrific death.
Id be willing to bet they were burried to prevent that very thing from happening. They certainly would have died first.
@@bradsanders407Or he died first from drinking beer in the heat and the lady kept going with kids. I doubt she would leave her entire wallet as a breadcrumb tho.
I was thinking the same thing. Their bodies would be easy for predators
I'm not really comfortable saying this but since you brought it up. Several years ago I had to drive down the same country road every day over a few seasons. It was not that hot up there in summer when I first started going that way, and the road was in the shade because of all the trees. There was a struck deer on the side of the road. It was not there that long, less than 6 months. No service picked it up bc it was a neglected rural road. It just disintegrated and got pulled apart and I noted the condition each drive.
I always thought there would be evidence of missing people for, like, 150 years or more if you could find where they had expired or been placed. But if they are near the surface they will be basically totally gone pretty quickly :( The thing that protects them is burial. But then you can't find them in the first place
Could be , the adults could have left the children somewhere they considered" safe and carried on within them as time was a factor and they would have been slowing them down. Id assume they fully believed they would make it to the base and receive rescue.
I think many in Europe get used to the idea that “countries” can be crossed in about a day, then believe that is true of the US….thereby drastically under-estimating the size of the US. I have on multiple occasions run into seemingly bright European travelers in the US who clearly did this.
For example, family friends from the UK visiting my parent’s house near Washington DC asked if they could drive to see California “for the weekend” (thinking California was an afternoon drive away)….and they were shocked to hear it takes a week of full time driving to reach California,
Or while at a scientific conference in Texas, a European at dinner said they were flying home out of New York City the next afternoon…..as they wanted to see NYC while in the US. They were surprised to hear that you can’t reach NYC from Texas in even 20 hours driving, let alone 6 hours,
I've encountered that; back in the 1970s at a party in Glasgow. A distant relation was excited to hear I was from Canada because she had a future vacation planned to New Brunswick so she would "pop over" to visit me . . . in Toronto. Not going to happen - 15 hours behind the wheel now and much longer 50 years ago.
Makes me wonder how German nazi were trying to cross Russia with such skewed view of geography.
This is true even of many Americans. If they have never been out here to the southwest, folks from the eastern US often have no idea how big the states get. Seeing a map of it is one thing, but being in the middle of one of these vast expanses is something else altogether.
Having lived in Tucson AZ and made many trips across Death Valley over the years, I can say with great certainty that people who have never been in these climates tend to underestimate how hostile they are to human life.
It's kinda the same with people planning road trips in Norway, including Americans. Since the country is fairly small, about the same size as Japan, people assume they can see the whole country in a short period of time. Mostly people from central Europe, and the US/Canada. The Europeans because they're used to highways and everything being close, and Americans because they're used to the long distances on open highways. But driving through Norway takes a long time due to the mountains and fjords. Things look close on a map, but it's deceptive due to the terrain and roads. It's quicker to drive from southern Norway to Rome, than it is to drive to northern Norway (and usually that involves driving through Sweden and Finland to save time). You can wave to someone across a fjord, and it can take 3 hours to drive to them.
People make assumptions based on what they're used to, which is often a good thing in your own environment, but not such a good thing when you're far away from home.
Don't they study maps? Embarrassing.
beer is the last beverage that you want to drink in those scorching conditions! This reminded me of a similar tragedy where an Asian family from SF took a remote logging trail in Oregon in the winter. They got stuck on the road, and then a storm came in. The husband left looking for help with no survival skills or winter gear at all and later found dead 6 miles away. Good job with covering this story, people should never underestimate mother nature!
Great to see Tom Mahood get a shout out. I found his blog during lock down and was fascinated both by the story of the Death Valley Germans and his descriptions of his adventures looking for them.
I'm here because of him. He kick started my interest in the American wilderness that had lain dormant since I watched Grizzly Adams as a child (yes I'm old).
YAAAA GRIZZLEY ADAMS!!!!!!!
Grizzly Adams!! As a child I had always planned on living in the wilderness hoping to run into Grizzly Adams so we could become a team and hike around the uninhabited wilderness making friends with the animals and of course some Native Americans along the way.
I grew up and have been hiking around the wilderness (not full time and not homeless) needless to say no Grizzly Adams but lots of animals some friendlier than others . Not many near death experiences and I have never gotten lost except almost in the Maine woods. Going away from the bear got me back on track. Nice to see there are still people out there who were affected by Grizzly Adams.
@@LAWandCoach As a kid we had a massive Newfoundland dog. Because of Grizzly Adams people thought country folk lived with bears and when people got lost they would drive up to our farm for directions and the massive newfie would run up to the car and the people never got out as they didn't want to be eaten by a bear.
I'm living out my lifelong dream of living remotely inspired by Grizzly Adams, as well as the Wilderness Family Robinson. 💕
Dan Haggerty was a hunk!!
Death Valley National Park is 3M+ acres, China Lake NAWS is 1M+ acres most of which is untouched. They got close to a boundary between vast nothingness and more vast nothingness.
A boundary between nothingness and nothingness with UXO
As a Geologist working in Death Valley over 40 years, I can attest to the remoteness of much of that country. However, aside from the summer months, the weather is not dangerous (in fact, it can be cold during winter). However, it is always dry: there are no springs of potable water. If you get lost, dehydration is what is going to get you.
If you trespass onto a military base, in a non-emergency you will likely be arrested and charged. However, if you trespass onto a military base because you are lost and need help, they will provide that help. They will never just shoot you on site, or secret you away in case you saw something. At most they might make you sign an NDA, but they will certainly not put you in prison.
In an emergency most laws are void. Let's say, for example, you are waiting for a red light to change when the location you are waiting in becomes unsafe, you can proceed, carefully, before the light turns green.
I was with my nephew once when I looked over as saw a shit ton of cops pointing guns at a store front. I had no idea what was happening but I wasn't going to take the chance someone might start shooting at the police, the could hit me or my nephew. I looked, saw no cars coming and ran the red light.
My nephew was a bit upset but when I told him it was okay because the police were trying to arrest someone, and I didn't want to be directly behind the cops if someone started to shoot.
I dropped my nephew with my sister then drove to the police station. I wanted to get something from the police, to prove the place I was waiting for the light had become unsafe.
The cop looked on the computer, found my violation in the camera log and deleted it. The cop still gave me a note to take to court just in case, but I never needed it.
The unfortunate likely assumption the tourists made is that their would be military personnel at the station that could assist them. But China Lake is a bombing range; it is neither actively patrolled or even manned most of the time. Even if they managed to reach it, there wouldn't have been anyone there to help them.
I was in rural Thailand, our group met a German woman who invited us to hike to the other side of the island, through the jungle, a local man offered to take us in a boat as he said there were big snakes in the jungle, that was enough for me but the woman insisted he was ripping us off and we should hike, I went a short distance where I couldn’t even see my feet then said forget it. She was pissed, thinking us whimps lol, better a live whimp than a snake dinner😱
a precarious situation when a german’s frugal nature and love of hiking converges! 😂
I was the only American in a resort filled with Germans. They loved us because they told us the Germans never tipped.
@@lealovestheseaAmericans are the only ones who really do, it’s considered backwards in most of the civilized world.
@@lealovesthesea I tend to forget to tip too when I am in countries where tipping is the custom because it just isn't done in my country. Finland. As far as I know the German culture is similar, tipping has become a lost custom because most times you pay for some sort of service a service fee is included in the bill. This has happened here during my lifetime, when I was a child in the 60s and early 70s I remember my parents leaving a tip for the waiters in restaurants at least, but when I started to go out by myself it was no longer done by anybody.
But the end result is that when I visit countries where you are supposed to leave a tip, first, I tend to forget the whole thing completely sometimes, second, I most times have no idea who to tip or how much to tip, so often enough I will not leave a tip when I am probably supposed to, either just because I don't think about it, or because I am not sure if I should, or how much would be appropriate, and then may end up leaving without tipping just because it seems the easiest route, and besides I have never been exactly rich so my travel funds are usually on the low side so I am not fond of the idea of doing something like tipping when it maybe would not have been necessary, or of giving more than would have been necessary either. Most times I remember to tip waiters, but that is one of the few situations when I am most likely to remember to do it. And that is mostly due to American movies and television serials. I suppose it's even a stronger association for generations younger than I am - as said, there was at least some tipping still done here when I was a child - who probably would have no idea that such a custom even exists anywhere without American movies, but due to those may connect it only to America.
Would actually be kind of nice if places like resorts in those countries would have lists for "who, when, and how much to tip" available, or visible around the place.
In her defense I gotta say scamming tourists is almost like an acceptable hobby in Thailand. My (Finnish) mom has spent her winters there for a decade now and shes been had a few times, the attempts are in the double digits. There is plenty of good people in Thailand, but when even the police takes part in it, its not a good look. But yeah, I think I wouldve taken the boat ride too, not a fan of wondering in thick jungle in that eternal heat :)
I spent 45 years working in remote desert telecom sites in California and Nevada, including the general area where this case occurred. I cannot stress enough how dangerous these areas can be to anyone who is unprepared. Something as innocuous as a flat tire can quickly become a life-threatening event. Have a Plan A, Plan B, and Plan C. And as part of all of those plans, include the ability to survive on your own for a week while you're being searched for. My plans included several ways to communicate with the outside world not using cellphones. This sort of environment WILL kill you if you let it.
Finding a bottle in a desert is like finding a needle in a haystack. And they found three. Thats impressive.
I think he did an extraordinary job in preparation and finding the IDs/bones. I realized he put himself in danger but it’s his puzzle solving just knowing where to look, incredible!
The Germans had stopped at the Geologist's Cabin in Striped Butte Valley. This place is always stocked with food and water and also provides shelter. The Germany had left an entry in the Guest-Book there indicating that they were heading for Mengel Pass and Goler Wash.
I've been offroading in DV since 1997 and I'm somewhat familiar with the area. I did the Warm Springs - Striped Butte - Mengel Pass - Goler Wah - Barker Ranch - Ballarat trip over half a dozen times.
I dn't think Mahoods assumption, that Rimkust tried to reach China Lake is correct. I'm pretty sure, the Germans blew out at least one tire already between Warm Springs Camp and Striped Butte Valley. Once they realized they couldn't make it across the boulders at Mengel Pass they turned around and eventually saw the headlights of cars travelling on the main road on the floor of DV - between Ashford Mills ruins and Badwater. After dusk it's possible to see those lights from up at the higher positions in Striped Butte Valley.
And the most direct way down to "civilisation" at that pont appears to be Anvil Springs Canyon.
I'm pretty sure the Germans wanted to make it back to the valley floor as fast as possible and the headlights in a distance made them chose the apparent shortest route.
Keep in mind: They made this decission while in esy walking distance from the Geologist's Cabin - which they knew and where they've stopped and entered the stucture earlier! They knew that there was shelter, water and food. Also they must have met some other people on their way, because Warm Springs camp, the cabin and even Mengel pass and Goler wash are rather popular among the offroad community. There's no exactly heavy traffic obvisously, but even during the summer at least a hand full of offroad enthusiasts go there every day.
Also: The Germans had only three days in order to make their flight out of SFO. They still wanted to go to Yosemite.
The route over Mengel pass would've meant a detour since the fastest route of DV and towards Panamint and Owens Valley to the 395 and north to the eastern park entrance to Yosemite near Lee Vining would've been the 190 over Towne Pass past Stovepipe Wells and out of DVNP.
The NPS-issued maps of the time were easy to read and labeled Mengel Pass clearly as "High Clearance, 4WD required / Experienced drivers only".
I'm pretty sure Egbert Melkus was completely ignorant not just to the distances, the dangers of the desert travelling, but also to any common sense at all. It's a tragedy that three innocent people, including two children, had lost their lives because of his actions.
But they did find bones on the way to the military base, so that is proof for Mahoods theory.
And as a german, the decision between a cabin and the military in an emergency will always be the military. I am pretty sure that the heat at that point had made a huge impact to the brain, the train of thought and reason... I would assume that Egbert had served in the military as a young man and with the damage from the heat they both just clutched onto that thought, because for us, a military base also means at least a little sick bay with a doctor, which would be very important for the kids.
Common sense is only common sense once you have learned something. Ex: common sense not to stick your hand on the lit stove after you have done it as a child.
Southern California native here. Please don't ever go to death valley.
If you want to see a desert, go to Yucca valley. It's gorgeous and full of life. Desert trees, covered with scraggly desert bushes, massive hills. The rare sight of cute little road runners, bobcats, and coyotes. The coyotes there are so damn smart I heard a story of a puppy that pretended to limp toward someone and when they approached the parents leaped out!
I got lost on a hiking trail as a teen when I was with a group and our leader took a wrong turn. I showed up at the parking lot right when they gathered a crowd to come search for me and my friends.
Maybe it's because there is more infrastructure, but it really is far less dangerous. And far less HOT! The temperature is actually mild for a desert.
You can see coyotes in South Pasadena. Who needs to go to the desert? We have a lot of wildlife where I live and the last thing I'd ever do it waste time on hiking the desert.
Agree 💯
If I want to see all that I will go to Yucca Valley. But I love the washes, canyons and valleys of Death Valley. Its like an alien world, crazy hot in the day and brutally cold at night. I backpack there at least twice a year but never in July or August.
No, DO go to Death Valley! It's beautiful and amazing. Just go when it's not 120 degrees! And do it smart. I've been twice, and it's totally worth it. There's no place like it.
We go to Death Valley every year in Jan/Feb. My Dad was the assistant to the Director of Furnace Creek Inn in 1935. I have deep roots! But NEVER in the summer.
I am so hooked on your videos. My husband and I love taking our dog on long walks on trails that are easy to moderate, albeit beautiful, peaceful and gets us out into (relatively tame) nature. So no hard-core hikers here, but it is fascinating to read about them. Thank you for taking the time to share and educate.
Tom Mahood is heroic. This man deserves the highest praise.
Please read his journals. He is an excellent writer. "Otherhand".
The baby and child breaks me… so much suffering and by no mistake of their own. 💔💔💔
I couldn’t imagine watching my baby die and know I couldn’t do anything to help them besides die alongside them, so far from home….
Seeing the picture of the mother and her child I questioned when it had been taken. She looked so sad. Her child happy. Such different responses to a common experience. Her face is flushed and the child appears to be wearing a shirt on his head as a sun guard. Was this photo taken on that fatal trip? So sad.
@susantharaldson529 that had to be an old photo bc Kyle said her child, a son, was I think either 4 or 9 years old, and the man's son was 11. I am not certain of the kids exact ages he told us, but they were a lot older than in the pictures shown.
@@susantharaldson529I agree. The mother looked so sad.
@@susantharaldson529She looks unhappy.
His son was 11 and her son was 4. It would be horrible if the parents died first and the little ones would have no clue what to do. Coyotes are everywhere and desert nights are full of a universe of stars and the howling of coyotes - otherwise silence.
I watched your ranger's horrible passings video and was brought to this video next and i have to say you make very good content and are very thorough in your explanation of these stories through research. Very well done!
I kept a 1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager I inherited from my parents. They came with AWD as an option, I have it on mine. Ive pulled an F250 with a tandem axle trailer out of the mud with my van, Ive pulled a Silverado stuck at the bottom of a wet/grassy embankment back onto the highway with my van, and Ive "pulled" a flatbed towtruck with its front wheels burried up to the axles in mud back onto dry ground. Mine also has 436,000 miles.
Theyre amazing vans. With the cast iron V6, its definitely a vehicle that will safely carry you to hell and back.
In this case, their van didn't have the clearance to go up Mengel Pass. That's why they had to turn around.
I'll stick with my Jeep Wrangler.
Wish the newer dodge vans came with awd
@@joshmanis9860They do! Costs extra.
They really are amazing vehicles. My dad had a 96 and it did everything for the family and more. I remember how comfortable it was to ride in on a highway trip. 300k miles with the V6. Im not surprised the Germans made it to that point.
My father owned a cattle station in the 1960s in one of the hottest areas of the Northern Territory in Australia. His best friend, Uncle Paul, was the local Police Officer in the last small town in the area, about 6 hours drive away, before travelling into the true Red Centre. Dad was driving along the road and came across some English tourists, a family with 4 young children. Their car had overheated in the middle of the day because the radiator had run out of water. He gave them water because they had less than a gallon for the entire family and car. Their only food was a few sandwiches the mum had made. Remember that this was a time before airconditioned cars. They seemed oblivious to how dangerous their situation was. The father said they were "on an adventure". They were going to drive through the town and then onto the red centre. Dad got the car going and asked them to say hi to the Police Officer in the town for him and he'll look after them. They were very thankful. He saw them off then radioed his mate and told him a group of insane tourists were on the way to see him. His friend talked to the couple, realised how daft and totally unprepared they were, and told the father that if he didn't get his car checked, get properly provisioned and drive back to the city he would arrest him for child endangerment. Whether the tourist realised it or not, after the grumbles, Dad and his friend did look after them. Dad and Uncle Paul, and many of the locals had been part of search and rescue efforts a few times for crazy tourists, and Uncle Paul did all he could to stop them when they had young children.
Wild. I heard most of Australia's interior is inhospitable to human life. I can't imagine how a family from cool, green wet England would manage.
all i can think about reading some of these stories of dumb tourists (and parents at that) is that so many of these people should NOT be allowed to have children. or vote. or do anything without supervision tbh
I am so grateful for people like your dad that care about other people enough to actually take the time to help and warn, even if it may be not immediately appreciated. :-D
But I am sure this family later realized that your dad had saved them.
Really heartwarming that these kids, and their parents as well, were granted the chance to continue to live there lives happily.
Incidents like this make me so thankful and happy that there are 'indeed' ;-) real and good people out there that will act upon gut feelings and on the behalf of others. This is what makes us human(e). ❤❤❤
Thank you Tom Mahood for doing what other's couldn't do.
This always makes my teeth itch.. I've visited Death Valley a few times (from the UK) and have nothing but respect and pretty straight up fear for the environment. Last trip we met a couple who ripped a tyre on a side road but happily caught a ride to the nearest visitor station for help. We were in a 2 seater before you ask but able to report their location. Things can go very bad very quick. Stay hydrated folks. Don't take chances.
I've been through Death Valley one time and kept going. The last two signs you see is no gas or water for 100 miles and Remember to turn your air conditioners off. Me and ex were long haul drivers and it was 120 degrees of the most hellish heat I've ever experienced in my life. First time and the last time
This has to be the scariest sign I can imagine.
Why would you turn your AC off?
@@razzor8970because turning your air conditioning on works the motor harder and heats up the engine more. In that kind of intense heat you don’t want the motor running hotter. You want to keep the motor as cool as possible so it keeps running and the water/antifreeze doesn’t boil out and kill the radiator. The radiator being the part of the engine that keeps the engine cool.
@@shelbykurmey4581there has been times when my car started to overheat and you turn on the heater, it is afterall a small radiator, not something desirable on a hot sunny day but better for the engine, living in Britain we have never had experience of the sort of heat described so it's almost impossible to comprehend, one thing I did read many years ago was to remove a wheel and burn the tyre as a way of attracting attention, don't know why but have watched various things over the years on desert survival, never had any inclination to go to one.
That’s why you drive through at night not day
In Germany, there's nothing even remotely as remote as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as hot as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as dry as Death Valley. Nothing even remotely as unpopulated as Death Valley.
In Germany, should you ever get lost in whatever we have that might qualify as wilderness, all you'll have to do is walk consistently downhill and you'll stumble upon a little brook in pretty much no time flat. Follow that, and you'll get to some settlement within the day.
In alpine regions things might be a bit of a different story. But other than that, there's no way to really get lost in Germany, or go places where there's neither any water nor shelter to be found anywhere within miles. So I can very easily imagine Germans far underestimating the dangers of places like Death Valley.
I get it.
I found an abandoned vehicle hiking, it really freaked me out, I contacted the forest service and never got any answers.
Where at?
@@devan9774 it was on Estes lake trail Flathead national forest Montana, a year later it was gone. Probably was removed by forest service
I've come across many of them out on BLM land in California/Nevada/Arizona. Usually they've been shot up for target practice, with spent shotgun shells, beer cans, and other trash scattered around. There's all sorts of 50+ year old appliances and other junk out there that people have dumped. It's not like the minivan in this video, where it's a wilderness area and you can tell that it was recently occupied by a family.
i live in an area with trails crisscrossing everywhere in the forest - old animal trails, abandoned railway beds, old logging roads, even tracks from when they used horses for logging. Every hike i've been on i've seen at least one abandoned car. most of them are 50+ years old. I'm not sure at this point i'd even notice a recent one unless the ground was obviously recently disturbed. it would be super creepy to find one with an old skeleton in it though.
There is an old battleground turned state park near my house. Went walking one day and found one bloody sneaker, on the inside. Like someone stepped on a nail or something. No one around and the shoe was gone on the return trip. Still wonder wtf.
They locked the van that was undrivable in the middle of one of the most remote places on earth. "If I could drive out here, so can the thieves."
Yeah i was wondering about that detail it doesn’t make sense but it’s probably just out of habit or something
@@BriannWhitee-du2gy or in case they mightve thought they'd be back
I, as a native German, can say that this is a total normal behaviour. I think/know, I also would have locked the car, especially when it is a rentet car. The fact that I´m in the dessert, with 3 flat tires and sand til the axles, does NOT change the fact that I´m responsible for the (rentet) car. I can´t let it alone in the dessert WITHOUT locking it :-))
I laughed out loud too 😂
@@klospikethat’s so german . I’m saying that with love for Germans.😊
I remember when I went to Germany a few years ago that driving to places felt incredibly short; I would pull out my sketch pad or take a nap and suddenly two hours later, we’re at our destination, even with a few traffic jams/staus that we sat through.
For context, I’m American and had to do 14-hour car rides every year when I was small. You learned to get used to it, because there sure as hell isn’t any other way to get there. I would imagine the opposite is true for a German visiting here; the western states are vast and there’s no way to make the journey faster unless you speed on the interstate (risking your car’s health if you’re running it for too long) or take a plane (can be expensive and a hassle with security, alongside the fact that you’ll still probably need a car AFTER getting off the plane).
It is scarily easy to take the wrong route if you aren’t paying attention. Hell, I’ve done it and I live in an environment like this one (albeit much cooler due to my hometown being 4500+ feet above sea level).
It’s better to be safe and late, than dead and on schedule. So, if you’re wanting to visit the western US, I can at least give the tips I’ve learned:
-Most town visitor centers are located directly off of an interstate exit, and they will usually stock paper maps for the area. They’re almost always free, and if you’re there during the day, somebody is usually working there who can give tips or warnings about road conditions you wouldn’t know otherwise.
-Try not to take obscure county roads to cut time or distance. Keep to either the interstate (the roads marked with the blue and red shield looking symbol) or federal highways (symbol looks somewhat similar but is in black and white) as these roads are typically much better traveled and a breakdown can be much easier to get help for.
-If you’re driving a rental car, do not be afraid to check any of the car’s components before a long drive. Make sure your oil isn’t black ooze, your coolant is filled a good amount, etc.
-If you are driving through the desert and happen upon something resembling a dirt road with grooves in it; check it first. You might have found a wash. *If it is not marked on your maps as a road, DO NOT take it.* Washes tend to have fine, soft sediment that crumble easily thanks to them being places where water drains. You run a risk of being stuck on a path that goes nowhere.
-If there is rain in the forecast, or you have a way to check radar, and see rain near your location in the desert, avoid washes and slot canyons. These spots are places where flash floods can hit with very little warning. Water can also fool you into thinking it’s shallower than it appears; don’t try to drive your car through it, even if it’s a big ass truck. A flood will not give a shit if your rental Ram 1500 is heavy. Follow the saying: Turn around, don’t drown.
-Americans tend to look more at travel time more than raw distance. This is just because so many things can effect the roads here (extreme curves that require slower speed, inclement weather, construction, etc) that a bad bout of weather can make a 150 mile drive go from about an hour and a half to three hours in minutes.
-Miles are weird. I’m saying this as an American. However, something that helps me to figure out rough travel times is that 120 kph is very close to our standard interstate speed - 75 mph. (Some states set the limit at 80 mph - you can go either, just make sure you stay in the right lane except to pass large trucks if you’re going 75! This makes passing a lot easier for everybody involved). The raw conversion is 1 kilometer is roughly about .62 of a mile.
-American cars do have kilometer speed measurements. On traditional speedometers the kilometers are labeled in slightly smaller numbers underneath the miles. On electric speedometers there’s usually a way to make it display kilometers instead of miles. Don’t be afraid to check the owner’s manual (if it’s in the car) or look up a tutorial (nothing wrong with that, either)!
-Don’t push yourself. You will not cross the country in a day. Drowsy driving is not fun or enjoyable, for you and everybody on the road around you. Plan your travel times in advance, or find a place to rest.
-Finally: Trust your gut. If something feels unsafe or you feel like you’re out of your depth, don’t be afraid to retreat and try another route. If you can’t go another way, then drive carefully and give yourself plenty of space between you and the car in front of you, in case you need to stop (traffic, wildlife, etc)
Places like Death Valley are named that way for a good reason; they’ve earned it. If you must go through it in the warmer months, *do not stop the car*. Any time the car is off in the valley gives a risk of it not turning on again. Even on the paved highway that goes through the valley, heatstroke can hit fast thanks to the dry air dehydrating you before you even realize it’s happening. Respect the desert, because fighting it during the day is a losing battle. Keep your strenuous activity to the night hours.
Stay safe out there, fellas.👍
Ambient temp of 107 degrees, but the flat sand may exceed 140 degrees, and reflected heat may create an oven effect in spots. It's cooler to walk at night, but it's too hot to sleep in the daytime. There are others to think about.
There is a shallow shelter you can make in the sand to keep cooler during the day. You need a folding shovel and a poncho. I venture that many or most people don't know about this. It pays to have a survival app on your phone. Study and memorize it if you can't take a paper copy. These manuals can increase your survivability in many adverse situations
@@christow7989 Clear plastic may be used to improvise a solar still in many deserts. Headliners and carpet are not real expensive, and hubcaps can be used to dig and for signaling. There are floor mats to keep the feet from getting burned. But in Death Valley, there would still be only a day or so to reach better ground.
sht honey, lets take a trip to death valley, sounds exiting, yeh, o.k. do your research, before you step out the fkn door.. i wander who, they told were they were going, or did anyone warn them.. not even the car rental.. it should be closed or have bloody big signs.. do not enter between bla, bla, make sure you have 300 gallons of water, & a sat ph.. record your trip with a ranger station.. same as planes.. we get the same sht here in aus. tourists die in the desert..even locals..
@@harrywalker968 And they made a few wrong turns,
We used to go ATV'ing at Dumont dunes when it was 107 degrees. Big deal. it's when you ran out of beer, I mean water is when it got hot. Dunes are 30 miles north of Baker, CA in Death Valley.
I've been on the internet far too long because I knew what that picture was instantly. Such a tragic story
Me too!
I immediately knew what it was about too. It's an especially tragic tale because of the poor children.
Same here. A tragic tale...
As a local resident, I would like to advise tourists to stop visiting here (Death Valley) in June, July, and August. This is a serious PSA. I am tired of the constant news stories of tourists dying from heat stroke. No one living here goes outdoors during the heat of the day. You have about 2 hours after sunrise, and maybe 1 hour around sunset that it is safe to venture outdoors for any activity. Your car is not safe. Vehicles break down very easily in the extreme heat. Tires overheat and explode, engines overheat and fail, next you overheat and die. Don't drive out here at noon, it is an honest death wish. Once your vehicle overheats and the engine no longer starts, it quickly turns into a solar oven. You will have to almost immediately seek shade, and there is very little or possibly none. Death Valley can be a very beautiful place 9 months of the year, come during those months.
Tourist maps can be hard to read. My boyfriend and I got lost one winter while hiking from Govetts Leap to Evan’s Lookout in the Blue Mountains in Australia. He had purchased a new book about day hikes, and we followed the instructions down to the floor of the valley, but couldn’t find the way back up. The sun was setting so finding shelter was a challenge. We finally found a rocky overhang with a dead tree leaning against it. Fortunately I had been a Scout and never went hiking without high energy foodsAND MATCHES.
We took turns all night napping or keeping the fire going in the near freezing conditions. In the morning we still couldn’t find the way out by following the book, so we retraced our steps and made it out safely.
Oh yeah, and we threw the book away!
well that terrified the poo outta me
Wow thank God you made it out safely
I gotta think that a situation like that would make or break a relationship. Either you learn that you work well as a team and you can count on the other person in the most dire circumstances or you learn that either they or yourself is potentially dead weight. Just imagining my ex-girlfriends in a situation like that with me...
I guess there is a reason I'm still single...
Relationship training 101 !! Make it or break up ! Maybe should be a requirement before marriage!
That was nice of the rental car company to not say anything for a whole month but not in this situation
I agree. They would've known they were tourists but not sure if they knew the destination.
Rental car companies have cars stolen from them all the time, it just goes to collections and gets processed by some employee. A month sounds reasonable.
I rented a car at the Nashville Airport but when I got there they upgraded me to a cherry red convertible with 23 miles on it. I asked the lot guy to trade it for something "less bold" as I was heading to libraries and small town cemeteries outside Nashville.
He did and I had a great week and went to take the car back and was told " Oh you have that. Glad you brought it back it wasn't signed out properly so we had no idea who had it or when to expect it back."
That flashed back to a Uhaul trailer with my husband's grandmother's effects we got home late Sunday evening and parked it on the Street in front of our house. It was due back by Tuesday. Neighbor decided to call in that there was a stolen truck and Uhaul came and towed it with the papers in the glove box. Police had said there was no report of call for a tow so it was a private tow.
Called Uhaul and at first they didn't want to tell us they towed it then they would not go get the papers out of the glove box to see we had it until Tues. Then they tried to tell us we should have called them and told them it was on town. New rule just for us. We threatened to call the police if they did not let us take it and empty it before bringing it back. The Uhaul place was not a place we wanted to.leave a loaded truck overnight while they decided "what to do".
I immediately had visions of ending up in jail in Nashville for Grand Theft Auto with only my words as to how it happened.
Why did the neighbor presume it was stolen ? @@peaceseeker52
I had a rental one day past my contract due to insurance company issues. they called me and reported the car stolen immediately. I had to leave work and drive back to the rental car place to sign a new contract and them to tell the police it wasn't stolen anymore. I couldn't believe it.
What a horrible mistake they made.
I've been reading the comments section for 30min. Truly one of the best parts of the internet. The sad condolences among the warnings, near-tragic stories, experienced people describing similar... captivating and educational. Hope it helps prevent more stories like this.
Whilst it’s not quite the same in terms of a long time mystery, this particular story reminds me of something that happened in my home state of Oregon not too terribly long ago.
In 2006, the Kim family was driving from the Seattle area, where they had spent Thanksgiving, to the Oregon coast. They missed their exit and, due to poor weather conditions, became stuck on a logging road they initially believed to be an alternative route. Unfortunately, Mr Kim ultimately lost his life after hiking out into the elements to find help. The rest of the family was okay because they were rescued after a few days. I think many people consider the mystery and tragedy of this story to be the fact that Mr Kim decided to hike out so soon; this is because people knew where they were headed and the family was expected to arrive there in a certain amount of time. This knowledge is what ultimately lead to the rest of the family’s rescue. It’s still a little unclear why Mr Kim made the decision he did. Similarly to the missing Germans, I believe one Mrs Kim stated that, after looking at a map, they believed to they were much closer to an area inhabited by other humans than they were in reality.
I remember that story. If I'm not mistaken they burned their tires thinking it could be seen from the sky. ( It didn't work) Then a bear came around and they were running out of food. I think they found him face down in a river. Very sad 😢🥺
you skipped the most important part of that rescue, his tech industry friends used the first ever method of retrieving cell tower phone ping data to triangulate and map out their possible location. I recall that they drove onto a forest mountain pass road that should have been gated closed for the season. Speculations were that Kim died of hypothermia while hiking back out uphill to the last road intersection they passed.
So sad
I thought of this story too. So sad!
I recall this story too! The things we are capable of in terms of endurance when we’re pushed and facing eminent death is Incredible! We are made to endure so much more than we realize but naturally the elements are always going to prevail in time. Always sad when it’s an entire family or group of people.
What a great video. I’ve always wanted the full story because Death Valley is in my backyard. If anyone wants to go to the desert, be it Utah, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and even California and Texas, please know that in the summer it is HOT. Like serious HOT. 107 degrees is just a normal summer day in the desert. And it’s not just hot, it can also be windy. Ever experienced 18 mph wind when it’s 110? It’s like being inside the clothes dryer. Just hot air that never stops hitting you. And that hot air is dry, so dry it pulls moisture out of you every minute. If I hang my wet laundry on a hot day, it’s completely dry as a bone in 2 hours. Yes, even jeans and towels. The desert is dangerous for many reasons but the heat and dry environment will attack you like you would not believe if you’re not acclimated to it. It takes about two weeks to fully acclimate to a new climate. So if you’ve never been here and you want to go hiking in the summer, deep into the backcountry of the desert for a couple days, expect to end up in a survival situation. There’s nothing out here, I mean nothing. For vast stretches of miles, nothing. Everything looks the same so it is easy to get lost and not be able to find your way back. In many places your gps won’t work, or even worse, will give you wrong directions. Ask me how I know, lol. It’s burning during the day, then when the sun goes down, depending on where you are, it can then get very cold. It is a place of extremes. Please, I am begging you, take the desert seriously. It is an unforgiving place that will kill you easily and no one will hear you scream.
I live near there too. Many people have died from following GPS directions down those dirt roads! And there is no water anywhere. You need a gallon per day per person out there in summer!
Agreed! A gallon per person per day and that’s just for drinking. That doesn’t even count washing up or putting water on your face to cool off. I always keep a sincere respect for this desert and never underestimate what the heat can do. I’m sure you get it if you’re out here too. And hey, hope you’re keeping cool. It’s only 95 where I am today, a nice cool summer day!
It's 103 today yesterday was 113 can get up to 122. Phx Az
@@glow1815 - With Phoenix, the problem really isn't the heat, it's the ETERNAL DAMNATION.
@@glow1815 Didn't have anything like this this summer so far, but then, it's been raining since march.
Ever family member that has ever lost a relative in a National Park would be lucky to have someone like Tom investigating especially when the N Park has given up.
If Law Enforcement doesn't want the publics help, then they should stop asking for it.
They only want help when it doesn't threaten their job security
@@JKHTX BINGO!💥
If someone is doing something that you can’t do, or are not doing…just say, “Thank you.”
@@libby2012 You're welcome. 😁
Thank you for your videos, you actually inspired me to start volunteering at our local search and rescue org a couple months back. I may not be able to afford to donate money, but I can give my time to help other people.
Beautiful human being. 👍👌💙
As a European who visited Death Valley in summer (the temperature at that time was about 115 F (or 46 C) I can say what is was hard to imagine for me, how deadly this place is, before I entered it. We went two people with a car, had lots of water in it. I lived in the USA for two years at that moment, traveled for some time and was kinda used to long distances with no infrastructure around. And still for me was unimaginable the place like Death Valley. Honestly, I was terrified to lose my car out of sight, then we went out for very short hikes. Later we decided just skip hikes and mostly stay in a car. We left a car just for several minutes to make some photos nearby. And even this looked dangerous to us. It was so deadly hot, it seemed that you can succumb just from walking short distance. We crossed a part of the Valley in one day. As we left it at night and parked at the lounge next to the Valley border, I counted how much water we both consumed in that long day. I found 8 empty bottles (2 liters or 0,5 gallons each). So it means everyone of us drunk 8 liters (more than 2 gallons) of water. Couldn't believe my eyes. And I don't remember using a restroom that day:)))
I dont get why anyone would even go there during the summer. with those temperatures, I would expect that car to heat up to a point where being inside would be as unbearable as outside
@@sshreddderr9409 it was before I left USA for good. We made a goodbye trip and timeline change wasn't an option. And as I told, I didn't imagen before I went, how hot it is for real:) And we were not alone - it was a bunch of turist where. I do not regred going, it was a huge impresion for me. And we stayed on main roads, didn't do anything stupid. As we went in, we realized very quickly that this place needs to be respected and operated in that manner.
Most Europeans have no real concept of the vastness of the desert, nor the heat.
It was so sad
Oh yeah? You done a study to determine what most Europeans conceptualize the desert as? How did you go about this? What was the parameters of the control group?
@@bradsanders407 Well, as a German I think he's right. As a smaller country I often think in smaller numbers when it comes to distances to be honest.
@@daenwallace5487 I've heard similar from Europeans generally. When planning a US trip that requires overland travel -- especially a first trip -- they often don't conceptualize the distances involved.
Makes sense.@daenwallace5487
what i think is the vastness of the desert it really hard to grabs how big it really is
I live in the Mojave desert between DV and JTNP and got excited when I saw the thumbnail because I recognized the photo of the van immediately. Such a tragic and easily avoidable story, yet not actually that uncommon out here... people die all the time in the desert getting stuck on remote roads not appropriate for their vehicle (or as in this case, driving on a non-road), or choosing to hike at the peak of summer during the height of the day refusing to believe you can become disoriented with heat stroke within minutes *in view of your car.* What made the Death Valley Germans so crazy is just how far they got before they became stuck. What's sad is that the park service CLEARLY WARNS people in every way in their power not to do these things and yet they keep doing them... 4x4 High Clearance Only doesn't mean a car or van, *but also doesn't mean a Subaru or other AWD vehicle, don't do it.* If you do get stuck in a vehicle in a remote area, DON'T LEAVE THE VEHICLE. After all, look what was found first. I suppose there are a VERY few exceptions, but in almost all cases it's a bad idea *even if* you think you see something that might be a good target. It's probably not, like how the military base wasn't. Even if you think you're going to die if you stay where you are, you almost certainly will if you try to walk out, so stay with your big, obvious, much-easier-to-spot-from-the-air-than-you car. Plus the vehicle provides some survival materials, you can at least huddle in the shade and as someone else already mentioned use the materials it provides to make a signal fire with a lot of black smoke.
Anvil canyon.
I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery. " Thomas Jefferson
@@Kent-j1i ? I'm not saying don't go out into remote areas of the desert. I'm saying don't be an idiot about how and when you do it. If that's slavery to you, you do you.
They would have been long dead by the time the van was found. Better to hike back to the cabin, where there was food and water.
@@Faretheewell608 - exactly. I almost lost a hiking pal mid 90's Anvil Trail Acadia Nat'l Park. This was way before Missing 911 became known. Hiking pal fit the Missing 411 'profile points, including 'point of separation' near the summit.
I live in the Arizona Desert. Never been to Death Valley, but I understand how hot it gets. What I do not understand is why the park administration allows tourists to go in on the hottest days of the year when the hiker passed away.
See? If it had been a 4-wheel drive, nobody would've ever found it because it would've been even further from civilization.
I remember Kyle Hates Hiking when you and your friend were taking us on trails, staying at motels (showers!), meeting people. I think you had about 15,000 subscribers then. I knew you were going to grow. Handsome, charismatic, and informed! Well done, Kyle!
Thank you for sticking around so long!!
@@KyleHatesHiking Kyle, I will give you some advice on improving your commentary. You have a good talent for storytelling, assembling the facts in a logical concise manner, and the ability to concentrate all of the information overload into a well-presented video. However, I am a grammar Nazi (I study Latin and Hebrew for fun) and there are two things that you and a lot of other documentary creators overlook and that is using "like" and "that being said". When you proofread your content, please don't use those terms. They don't add anything to the story. I know "liking" is very common among your generation and "that being said" is common in most news organizations.
For instance, my wife's home health care nurse (masters in nursing and other advanced degrees) cannot say 2 sentences without inserting "like" 4 times.
Yes, I am a subscriber and knew about the German family when it happened. When a person gets dehydrated (I was a marathon runner and century cyclist) their ability to think clearly is impaired. Then they fall victim to tunnel vision (I have to finish the marathon (me) and I only have 7 more miles to the finish line) and have only one goal in mind. I have seen and experienced soldiers collapse from heat stroke, and I totally collapsed on a 75-mile bicycle race, I have seen marathon runners collapse from dehydration several times... The effects of dehydration and impaired judgment are killers and no one ever realizes it until they collapse or a friend rescues them before the collapse.
When I go to national parks in the US and Canada, I always book day trips/guided tours. I was told a few times by ''adventurous'' people that these tours are such a tourist trap and ''where is fun in going on a tour with other tourists''. I do this because I have no idea how to navigate through these remote places and the last thing I want is to get lost in a national park on a different continent. I can only imagine how easy it is to get lost in an area I know very little about in the middle of nowhere.
I grew up in Slovakia, we have several national parks with deep forests full of bears and a lot of people get lost/injured in there, on average, 30 people die in the Slovak mountains every year. There is a national park outside of my hometown and if you get lost in there, you can easily end up in 2 other countries within a few hours, which makes the search even more challenging. This spring, they found an unexploded bomb from WW2 while building a new cycle path through the national park. You are safe on the official, marked trails, but that doesn't stop people from exploring other areas. And there are people who specifically go there to search for ''souvenirs'' from WW2...stuff that German/Russian soldiers left behind during the war. It's fascinating but also terrifying.
My family all came from Slovakia, Sadok and Krusovce area. Go there often. Once, my two Slovak girlfriends who are sisters [long and dicy story] Made the trek from my home near Yosemite to the grand canyon and thought they would hike down and up to the canyon bottom in one day with 100+ F heat. like 8 miles. Well known to kill tourists that underestimate our deserts.
They made it down and halfway up where they were rescued [water] by some real hikers. I had to laugh at them as it took over a week where they could walk normally again, massive ankle and leg pain. We also went to death valley - my favorite spot in California - but I kept them poolside at Stovepipe wells.
Feedback: Intro is too lengthy. Watch at 8:04 to begin story.
my mom has been hiking death valley for decades. she will not go out there past April and she loves the heat. its not for the amateur hiker.
I tell people. Turn your oven on high for half an hour. Then open the door and put your face up to it. That's what the summer time temps feel like is the Southwest U.S. It is dangerously hot outside
@@MadJustin7accurate!
Kyle: I just discovered your channel, and for once (at least on RUclips) it doesn't feel like you're exploiting horrific stories for views. Instead, I feel moved - and (generally) saddened by the people of all genders, races, age and humanity that sadly find themselves in irreversible situations. Your storytelling is profound, supported by research and not exploitative, and even with mostly traumatic endings, at least we can examine our own perspectives and derive our own conclusions. Hats off to you and the many heroes, discoverers and simply out-there explorers who have helped to solve these mysteries, and in some cases, even save lives.
Thank you for making this channel, I myself lost someone to a tragic hiking accident. I believe these incidents are more common, and the public should be informed on the dangers of mother nature and how serious we need to take outdoor adventures. Thank you for giving warnings and explaining risks of the wild.
it's like parents leaving their child in a hot car, a gun in an unsafe spot, hot tea on the table... No amount of warning will help, it's the incidental death which teaches most people - sadly. Like seeing is believing. Most of these people must have been told, or could've known. DEATH valley...
I'm so sorry to hear this ❤❤
I'm a logger in northern California's remote mountains. The things I've seen people do. My favorite from them, "It's fine, we have four wheel drive." My favorite from me (a few hours later after I go looking for them), "Well... you can stay here with your stuck four wheel drive and die or you can let me rescue you. Your choice." And some of them stay with their rig. They're usually a little more open to being rescued the next day after spending a freezing night in their rig.LOL
4wd gets you stuck twice as far
I like to think that you track em down and just hide and observe them the entire night, rescuing them after a morning coffee
Tourons never cease to anger me.
@@APersonOnRUclipsX I wouldn't even bother to rescue them at all, unless they had kids. They ignored common sense and a warning from someone who knows better? They can deal with it themselves.
@Wobblesandbeans Would you trust every stranger despite being warned of cartels and other mad people? Let’s not blame them for something that we call others stupid for.
I live in the desert a few hours away from death valley and even in my area, it'll hit 125 during summer with 30-75% humidity. I've also saw videos on this years ago prior to 2020. i forgot all about this case.
I came across Tom's blog several years ago when I did a deep dive into Death Valley. Such a haunting story but Tom's investigation what so thorough and methodical. Glad you covered this!
It's an amazing read
I did the same thing maybe 6 or 7 years ago and spent an entire day at work reading the whole blog; thankfully it was just a plain-looking document and my boss had no idea!
I've hiked numerous times in Phoenix which has two seasons. Summer and Super Summer. I can imagine what it's like to have a hike in Death Valley National Park. When I lived in Phoenix visitors would look at me like I was crazy for wearing a long sleeved shirt and jeans while they were wearing shorts and t-shirts. Jokes on them, I was cooled down while they were overheating and suffering heat strokes.
I live by china lake and the main part of the base is miles away from Death Valley, even trying to get there would be almost impossible for anyone to reach
I live in Arizona and lemme tell you- tourists almost never take the desert seriously. We (as a state) are always trying to rescue idiots hiking at the hottest time of the year without hiking experience and a dangerously low amount of water.
EDIT: tourism isn’t a bad thing. But stupid tourists are still stupid if they’ve been warned and hike ill-prepared anyway. The taxes spent on the rescues aren’t quite as bad as I thought so I’ll drop that point, but I’ll note the city pays for the rescues unless the hikers get an ambulance.
Same in the Mojave. Why they don’t go in the winter is beyond me
Thank you for your service 🙏 ❤️
Meh, I could do it. It's not all that.
Sure buddy. Twice every 5 years?
While it's not always a serious thing, tourists not taking their destination and its locales seriously is very common. Most of the time, it just leads to annoying or embarrassing situations, but sometimes they do something so monumentally stupid, it gets them hurt or even killed.
Tourists just don't care. They're so set on having an enjoyable, relaxing vacation, they have a bad tendency to flaunt the local rules of the place they're visiting like it somehow doesn't apply to them and things will be fine. Like them being on vacation gives them some kind of superpower where nothing bad can happen to them until it inevitably bites them in the ass.
I saw this a while back with Explore with Us. Is scary what people do without being prepared, especially with kids.
Just this past summer a motorcyclist tried to cross Death Valley. He didn’t get lost but the temperature was so hot that he died from hyperthermia. People found him and tried to help but his core temperature was too high and he was already unconscious. Ambulance services were hours away and The temperature was so high that helicopters couldn’t safely land and take off because air density is too low for the rotors to create lift.
They might have left the kids in the shade somewhere like a small cave and tried to hike in the heat to the base. The gf might have even stayed with the kids but when the bf didn’t come back she ventured out herself. Just some theories
The children probably perished prior to their parents since their bodies are smaller and weaker. I assume their bones were never found since they are easy for scavengers. Just horrifying to think how awful their last few days must have been
Caves collapse and there is no shade.
What kind of caves are there in Death Valley ?
@@michaelblankenau6598 There's caves everywhere. Unlike videogames or movies, caves are very small. It's reasonable to not consider them caves based on their size.
I don't know, I'd give this situation less than 4 hours. There are a ton of coyotes around Furnace Creek, I'm sure there are birds of prey out there too.
Great coverage of a missing person case I am fairly familiar with. I have followed Tom Mahoud's adventures for quite a few years. Here are a couple small details I noticed in your report that probably weren't quite right. First, the ranger that spotted the van while on an air patrol was probably in a helicopter if he landed anywhere near the van as there is nowhere nearby for a small plane to land. Also, at the very end you mentioned that people should not venture into unknown territory. The guide that the Germans bought showed the road past the mining camps and up and over Mengel Pass as well as the road down which they drove and got stuck. The map they were following was not meant to be used for navigation and was out of date as the road they ended up on had been closed to traffic for years even though it was still on the map in the guidebook they purchased.
Also remember, GPS can lead you astray. Study routes on a map before leaving.
Please don't ever drink alcohol while hiking in the desert in summer. You don't realize how dehydrated you get, very quickly.
What nonsense … he was German and it was US beer … same as water … what should he have done? Leave it forth the kids and drink their water? It was 1996 … adults drink beer … kids water! You cannot see it from a 2024 perspective … thats nonsense!
@@GanymedeXD "You cannot see it from a 2024 perspective...." 😂 I was 21 years old in 96 and grew up in SoCal. I'm very familiar with hiking in the desert and drinking in the 90's. But..... maybe you're right. Drinking beer in the desert is a super smart decision. You should go do it and prove me wrong.
@@GanymedeXD Alcohol and carbonation both exacerbate dehydration rather than make it better, which makes beer a doubly bad thing to drink in summer in a desert. And that's not become less true since 1996.
I drove cross country on pavement the whole way but was worried about car trouble in an area with no cellular coverage, so I bought a personal locator beacon. My daughter thought I was nuts. Imagine if this family had one.
It was 1996 though. I’ve had a cell phone since 1992, but I’m certain it wouldn’t have worked from there in 1996.
Or Satellite phone. If you have $ to travel, the least you can do is prepare to be safe.
@@fnancyb PLBs work off satellite though. They work anywhere in the world as long as you have a view of the sky.
Yes, PLB is a fine idea. There was a case several years ago near me in highly populated Southern California where someone drove off busy Hwy 60 on a curvy hilly area nicknamed the Badlands, and nobody found her vehicle for many days.
But for this family on what seemed to be an unplanned venture off-road in Death Valley in 1996, their technology-aided options were limited.
Yes I drove across country In the late 90s and just taking I-80 across the country there were 100 or longer mile stretches With no water, no rest stops, no gas stations, and no shade whatsoever. no greenery. you could pee in the middle of the road because You'd see a car coming long before it could see you. but if you didn't know there were no signs warning you Or if you were looking for signs other than green and white official signs you could miss the warning no gas station for the next 100 miles. those were posted on the existing gas stations to Drama business as much as warn people and so if you add three quarters of a tank you might not even glance at the gas station. there were no official government signs saying the danger and if I had run out of gas there it was winter so I would have frozen to death or died of dehydration and hypothermia rather than dehydration and hypothermia. I had pets with me too. I would not Willingly drive as I did if I had had a choice. nor would I ever go again without a Personal locator device. I'd be better parking on the side of the road for naps instead of a hotel and using the money for that GPS If I had to choose for financial reasons. and I promise you if you drove along across those same plains and mountains you would be thinking the same thing now. I think a lot of us would have some idea how to prepare for winter and I did build quite the winter survival kit. I plan to be able to survive at least a week with my two little dogs and parrot buried under snow on the side of the road. but summer there's a lot less you can do. The amount of water you'd need would be very heavy to tow across the country and there would be no shade to protect you and no way to air condition your vehicle With it being parked on the motor off. There are just so many things that are so much more deadly in the summer amazingly.
I took a roadtrip through Death Valley in fall and even then, it was hot! Those lonely roads were eerie because I didnt see a vehicle for miles and it would have sucked breaking down
I used to be unsure about your channel BUT the more I watch, the more your videos are constantly on throughout all of my days. The way you tell the stories whilst remaining so respectful is fantastic. We appreciate you shining light on how dangerous and relentless Mother Nature can be
He's one of my favs
Shame on the cops who scolded him for putting in the time and effort to help solve the case. He is a grown man who makes his own decisions. He didn't break any laws. If he chooses to put himself in harms way to help bring closure to the case, then i applaud him. Outstanding job sir!!!
What could they do? If they thanked him, then there would be a wave of other people trying to solve some mysteries. At least what they did was safe and did not put other people in danger, even though it could have been handled better.
@@personifiedmarvel6964 - What these old guys did was NOT safe in the least! One twisted ankle, one episode of heart palpitations from the extreme heat, one snakebite and DOZENS of Search & Rescue People would have immediately mobilized to save their sorry butts.
They were, in a word: LUCKY. The next word is INCONSIDERATE, and follow that up with just plain STUPID. Mother Nature will ALWAYS prevail in extreme conditions like these, the odds are with the House. That is why Search & Rescue endevour to get out there as fast as the can, every last one of them: the odds are ALWAYS that it will be a RECOVERY (of a corpse) and not a Rescue. It is ALWAYS a race against DEATH. and the rescuers are at as great of risk of losing their lives as the "victims". often even more so. Whether at the edge of town or at the edge of civilization, someone will volunteer to save a strangers life at the possible cost of their own, do it gladly, simply for it's own reward, sometimes just for a memorial on the wall inside some lonely Fire Hall given posthumously.
Idiots that think they'll beat ALL the odds who walk out into the Desert with 100 pounds of water on their back, a couple of Band-Aids and a compass need to get HEFTY FINES when they are discovered. Add one day in jail for every person that was, or would have been called out to help get their "fat out of the fire", and maybe there would be less such foolishness. Or, maybe consider just leaving them out there, if they truly knew the risks.
It's the "nanny complex" that government officials always seem to have. If you're an every day civilian citizen, you are assumed to be an idiot. You are a child to them and they are your nanny that knows better. This attitude makes them feel superior and that therefore helps to bloat their smug egos. I mean they've had training and whatever!! Ummm, we can be trained too and also know what the F we're doing, just like them. I disagree with their attitudes, obviously.
@@personifiedmarvel6964if other people want to go out looking, who are they to stop them, at least as long as they stick to areas it's legal to be? I absolutely have the right to go out and die in the desert if I so choose.
The government isn't there to keep you from doing things just because they're not safe for yourself.
@markr.1984 yes! Even though they normally have less knowledge in whatever the topic is (like cops and law/constitution).
It makes one wonder why they would bring alcohol on an excursion into the desert rather than water, especially with such young children.
Another factor many people don't consider beforehand: you can't count on cell phone reception for VAST areas out there. I was there (Death Valley [Furnace Creek]) with my wife & son roughly around the time the later searcher was probably formulating his theories. It was wintertime and we stayed in well traveled places, but I think we went about a week with no contact with the outside world until we got close to Pahrump, NV on the way back to our flight out of Las Vegas.
I read the guy's blog...wow. You could do another video on what happened after Ms. Meyer's remains were found. That was a LOT of work over a very long time. The dedication to finding them is commendable.
I've always had a healthy appetite for going down rabbit holes. Was on a subgroup on Reddit showcasing bones and in the comments were talking about the mystery of the Death Valley Germans. Tom's OtherHand blog was linked and last night went down the rabbit hole into the story. While I stayed up late past sleep time, I finished the story earlier this morning and have since been watching videos to gain other perspectives. Tom is a SAR member and if you haven't read his blog on this mystery or even the others he has assisted in, I highly recommend it!
The government that couldn't find this family has no business scolding these men for finding them. What an abuse of authority. I hate this "for your own protection" crap.
Their attitude reminds me of when Mel Fisher's team found the sunken treasure galleon _Atocha_ .
Bureaucrats in the state of Florida said, "Um, that belongs to us." But they had never done a darn thing to find it.
And yet, if you got lost and were in trouble trying to find someone you would be calling on the same authorities that you were castigating right now.
@@DarkMatterBurrito And your best chance of being found is by the sort of volunteer rescue team that is NOT affiliated with the government. The government has the material resources, but actual government or military personnel with the search and rescue expertise are in extremely short supply.
@@fast_richard most search and rescue teams are Sheriff's dept volunteers (or even reserves). I suspect that any grief they got was due to the fact that they got a hold of information that was part of the official search and wasn't meant to be shared to people who weren't involved. Random hikers find clues all the time for old cases - like w/ Bill Ewasko.
agreed!!