The Greatest Forgotten Chess Puzzle
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- Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2022
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Puzzle FEN:
2b5/4R3/5P2/5k2/5p1B/7P/ppp3P1/4K2R w K - 0 1
Puzzle Details:
❓❔❓❔❓❔❓
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The Board: bit.ly/3b3B8pb
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Хобби
Lesson to learn - if you have one pawn ready to become a queen, don’t wait for 2 more.
Fr
Except in situations where getting the queen isn’t possible or would be a bad move for whatever reason. Chess is a crazy game.
@@HarleyMaebry yeah but usually u only need 2
3 is very unlikely
Me: pushing the side pawns
Me: getting a queen 😎
Me: getting checkmated right after
uhhh
That basically combines every weird rule in chess into one puzzle, ie
- double pawn first move
- En passant
- Castling
- Promotion and under promotion
Well spotted. The combo of en passant capture, castling and underpromotion is known as the Valladao theme.
Castling with check, no less.
Frankly, castling wasn't even on my mind. Maybe because it's so late in the game and I assume that both sides somehow lost their castling rights that far in lol
From what we see here, how is anyone supposed to just know that castling is possible? How do we know that the king and rook haven't moved?
@@drewharrison6433 It's actually a chess puzzle convention to assume that castling is possible by default, unless it can be proven that it's impossible. Makes things more interesting this way.
The real puzzle is how the king and the other rook didn't move while three pawns made their way into the second rank
Sanest chess puzzle setup:
Lol
I was just thinking that! I guess puzzles are made-up and never part of a real game.
I love the thing that the bishop at c8 is just chilling and watching his king and pawns fight for the king's life
These puzzles where you have to randomly castle are really wierd. How could I have known, this was still an option?
In puzzles you always have to assume you can castle. If it is not allowed, it will be specified.
According to the rules of chess composition, if both the king and the rook are on the starting squares, castling is possible unless it can be proven that the position could not arise from the normal starting position without king and/or rooks moving.
General speaking if King and Rock was on starting possision on puzzle O-O or O-O-O was playable
Same goes for en passant; if the configuration is correct with no other information, assume it’s possible.
Yeah, this type of puzzle is to make people feel smart, more than to learn anything. as soon as i saw underpromotion i rolled my eyes.
"Imma castle with no pawns on the 2nd rank, in the end game, on move 30-something." Utter madness lol.
The castle move is hard to spot because it is not even clear that casteling is still alowed, in a position this late in the game the king or rook most probably moved at some point (and end up at starting squares) making casteling ileagal.
In Chess puzzles it's always allowed if the king and the castle are on their starting squares.
This is a puzzle, not a position in the middle of a game
@@nomms that's not true?
ileagal
@@JMZReview That is the case, unless specified in the puzzle.
A Google search says that this problem was composed by Yochanan Afek in 2011. I don't think that RUclips will allow me to post a link, but try searching for the ARVES chess endgames study association.
Actually this puzzle shows the so-called "Valladao-Task": an en-passant capture, castling and pawn promotions in the same chess puzzle :)
please help me reach out to nelson by liking my comment you will find it, because at 5:20, its a draw, you can run it on stockfish, i just randomly saw it, and put it in stockfish, and i want nelson to know so please help
@@nevermind994 who cares if that position is a draw?? White has a winning position, it doesn’t matter if there is a draw somewhere else
@@bdogpimpsause bro its a month old comment why reply?
@@bdogpimpsause Stockfish is infamous for ruining chess puzzles.
Great find! This is the so-called Valladão Task, a problem showing promotion, en passant capture and castling. The underpromotion to a knight is a bonus. Btw., I have not found this problem in the known problem databases. Probably someone else will have more luck.
Ah. Hidden castling. I hate those, since you can‘t know if the move is legal.
This
The purpose of the bishop on c8 is to prevent quicker checkmates that include Rf5
Just to clarify: it's a convention in chess problems that castling is valid unless you can prove it isn't. The convention is made that way round, because, otherwise, problems wouldn't be able to involve castling, because you can't *prove* that castling is valid.
In some problems it looks as if black may castle, but something about the position means you can prove that black has lost the right to castle, so white may do something which works, but would fail against castling.
Hard to plan a move if castling is unknown to be available this late in a game.
In puzzles if king and rook are on starting squares it’s always available unless specified
Study by Yochanan Afek from 2011 (a famous israelien chess study composer and also IM as a chess player). He received 3rd commendation for this Valladao theme study (but in his carreer he often got first prizes in many tournaments).
Love these types of videos!
Chess Vibes uploading chess puzzle videos speaks for itself.
Great composition! It has all of the little tricks that make a puzzle interesting.
Thank you for the amazing video!
Your lessons are the best on RUclips.
You didn’t forget the “en passant” rule. Pawn to G4. F4 takes G4 by moving to G3. I was very surprised when I learned that rule.
Problem though, unless it’s literally the only move you can make en passant is an illegal move to get out of check
@@Soulessnight4 False, you can make an en passant to get out of check
en passant is the most obscure move in chess, yet it makes this puzzle so much harder...
Thought I was clever for seeing the pawn to g4 forcing en passant but I missed the castle check and never would have gotten the rest of the puzzle lol. Great but very complex
I knew that as soon as I saw the white king and rook's position in the thumbnail, that there was going to be a hidden castling move here
Nelson really found a good study
The castle was the first thing I spotted, it would've been my first move if I were working through this puzzle myself
As @TeaInTheMorning4929 pointed out earlier, it is not clear that castling is possible. I have seen puzzles where the king and a rook were on their starting squares with solutions which hinged on proving the fact that castling was not possible. Accordingly, does it not make sense to provide a proof game for the given position to show that this position (with castling allowed) is feasible?
What's the problem with castling first and then playing g4?
En passant, castling, and underpromotion! Love it!
I started with 0-0 as the 1st move, and I still do not see why it does not win. White threatens mate in 3 (g4+, Rh7+, Bg5X), and it seems that after 1....Kg6 2.g4 we are back to the propsded solution (B:g4 does not help). So the interesting defense is 1....f3 2. R:f3+ Kg6 3. Rg3+ Kf5 (3.... Kg6 4. Bg5+ and mates) 4. Rg5+! Kf4 (4....K:f6 5.R5-g7+ Kf5 6. g4+ Kf4 7. Rg-f7+ Bf5 8.R:f5X) 5.f7! letting black to promote 2 queens, but it looks like they can't help, like 5.... c1-Q+ 6.Kh2 b1-Q 7. g3+ Kf3 8. f8-Q+ Bf5 9: R:f5+ with mate, or 5....b1-Q+ 6.Kh2 Qg1+ 7.K:g1a1-Q+ 8.Kh2 Qh8 9.Rg8 and wins.
So it looks like the solution is not really unique. Or did I miss something?
please help me reach out to nelson by liking my comment you will find it, because at 5:20, its a draw, you can run it on stockfish, i just randomly saw it, and put it in stockfish, and i want nelson to know so please help btw thanks for recap
@@nevermind994 its a draw because white had misplayed, nelson shows that the bishop check is needed.
Castling first would lose to Be6 and the king would run to e5 and escape.
I swear I've seen this one too but couldn't tell you where sadly
You're part of the reason this is a forgotten puzzle........
Pretty sure I found the solution from the picture
Push pawn, opponent queens , you move king, opponent takes rook, you queen mate, but they will probably defend the promotion with the queen
Tip for doing puzzles: A check is usually the answer
I feel like the castling was a bit of a cheat, as it seems unlikely that castling would still be possible this late in a game.
At 8:11 the checkmate could still be delayed
If the black king move to Kh4 the white queen can try to move Qh6 for check
Black queen can blocked Qh5 but the bishop for white will checkmated at Bf5#
Wouldn't that be white to Qg4 checkmate?
This 76 year old remembers my favorite puzzle where both kings were almost totally locked into their respective back two ranks and the drawing side had to “ match” squares with the side trying to win…. I loved that long lost puzzle.
Underpromoting to a knight is subtle - and brilliant!
Pretty good puzzle, like that it uses enpassant, which I have never been able to use in an actual game XD
Anyone else thinking that there is no way that king and rook hasnt move this whole game to even think that castling was an option
Black's bishop: 🍿
The Greatest Forgotten Chess Puzzle speaks for itself
Superb puzzle as usual 🎉
2:14 so unless it’s the only move you have you can’t en passant out of check.
Wtf are you talking about
@@bdogpimpsause sorry, I misunderstood the google search
En passant is forced
Since it initially looked impossible, I realized that there had to be a castling move to gain tempo while protecting the king. :-)
He didn't mention that the king could castle, that information is crucial and he left it out.
@@DanielRocha-rn6ii in chess puzzles it is always assumed you can castle unless you obviously can’t or it is specified that you can’t castle
@@DanielRocha-rn6ii I agree 100%, it was just by a process of elimination I decided that it would be impossible without castling.
@@DanielRocha-rn6ii He also didn't mention that it wasn't possible. If it were said, it'd give away a crucial move and spoil part of the puzzle.
I knew it should become a knight at first glance!
The black bishop could take that pawn, then in line of sight to take out the rook, so the rook would have to move, unless you want to sacrifice your rook, or try to keep black's king in check.
I saw that as well, I don’t understand how he stops the video in that position, game’s not over at all.
Mate in two
End game teaching excellent
In this puzzle, It is very good exam that king safety is the most important. Despite has three extra pawn nearly promote, black lose. Fascinating!
1:37 En Passant:
He said it
Holy hell!
Move the white peon two spaces up, you check the king, so has to move from f5 to g6, move tower in front of king g7, only place left to move for the king is h6. Peon that moved two spaces finished the deal
Thing is, if I was white in that position, I would’ve already assumed that I couldn’t castle.
Gonna remember this when i get to this position
You can move 2 to the white paida Or soldier
If castling is available in what's approaching an endgame, it should be stated up front.
Man that was insane and interesting
The purple is wrong
6:20 we can just promote the pawn by pushing it
I finally got one of these puzzles right!!!
The king side castle is dirty. Because, we don't know if it's still available.
Yeah, I've seen parts of it, like first three moves I did it just by looking at the picture, then I got confused somewhat.
At 6:21 I’d like to explore the black pawn moving to G1 and becoming queen instead of taking the bishop. I’m sure it’s clear but my mind can’t work that far ahead.
g1?
if you meant b1 then white pawn just promotes to queen and black cant do anything to stop white next move, laddermate
@@dotwiroh4234 There is another move it's called queen to b6.
@@Crimsonfireball huh? comment above wanted pawn b1, promote to queen so white just goes f8 to promote their own queen and u want qb6 so white just go qh8 check? how does that help?
@@dotwiroh4234 qb6 is check to white king so the white queen can't check on h8. Or am I missing something here?
i saw mate in 3 and thought you lost your edge, then on croissant
I like this dude because he every possible move
NGL this is the first time I've seen An pasant in action. I've only just heard of it
There is a much easier solution, Rock to f5 while bishop is in g5 and king in h5 is the key, you don't need to castle in that position.
Love the cadtling idea but its hard to know if it isnt stated that the king has never moved
hmm, there seems to be an out for black throught promoting pawn C1 into knight and check on the king
1:32 my guess is which should castle to get the rook in like to attack any potential queens.
1:36 en passant... don't need to move the king. Moving the king is a blunder here
I actually thought about Qc1 usntead of Bc1 to trade and maybe bishop & rook vs bishop is winning since they're on opposite squares? I guess not though
Castling in end games are crazy 💀
Wasnt aware the king hasnt move to allow castling.
That's rather cheesy since it's hard to imagine the king has never moved with that kind of carnage on the board.
Very nice puzzle.
At 3:00 how do we know if rook or the king didn't move and we can castle?
We don’t
OMG THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I SAW EVERY BEST MOVE ON A TRICK PUZZLE ON THIS CHANNEL
* _ *
i didn't know castling was an option.
What I don't like about the castling situation in a puzzle is you're assuming up to that point in the game the king hasn't been in check already, either of those 2 pieces has moved or castled already. It's a late game situation, so chances are one of those 3 situations probably has happened.
This puzzle goes crazy. Good explanation though!
Did not see this one. Got distracted by the pawns and tried to figure out how to stop them...Lol
Wow there are so many rules I didn't even know about
7:24 , black moves queen to F2, forcing the trade and ultimately wins? Edit: It leads to situation where you have to choose between eating bishop or a pawn with the king, if you eat bishop you will lose and if you eat pawn it leads to draw.
How will black ultimately win? If qf2, white queen takes on f2, pawn takes, king takes and now black has 1 bishop and 1 pawn versus white’s bishop, pawn and rook
@@vdun Yes well that is the thing, after king takes black rook will take the pawn, this leads to draw!
@@wexdust How will it lead to a draw? White is up a full rook
@@vdun I wrote that wrong l wanted to say that black bishop will take the pawn if you take black pawn with the king. However l find the move with the rook, it releases black king unfortunately but it lets you eat black 'would be' queen. This leads to semi king and pawn end game except white pawn cannot promote, it's tricky to get the win but at the end that pawn you made sure survives pins black king and you sacrifice the rook in order to do checkmate.
I'm a bit confused since you said if black queen goes to F2 it would ultimately force a trade but white would still win since its up a rook and when does taking bishop or the pawn come up from?
g4+ was the pretty obvious 1st move (only move, w/o much thinking actually.) 0-0 was a bit tricky, as we didn't know if it was still an option at such a late point in the game. Once 0-0 was allowed, rest was also pretty obvious, as all moves are more or less forced.
I first thought about 0-0 as 1st move and afterwards g4+. It works well if black goes directly for a queen, so the only defence against it might be f3.
I too completely missed the castle. It might help if you saw the game from the beginning, but OTOH you might get distracted by other possible moves.
if you played bg6 at 5:20 black would be forced to take the bishop with the queen and afterwards rxg5 if you make a queen it doesnt help because i will play f8=q+ and i think that is loosing for black. and if bg6 qxg6 rxg6 and kxg6 i think h4+ and maybe h4 is not needed because we can promote to a queen ultimately drawing the position
i actually now ran it on stockfish and its a draw
Yeah that is why he needed to play bg5+ before and win
But there is no condition in this problem to determine whether either the rook or king for white has moved already. We don't know whether we can castle.
It was unclear that castling was available because it wasn't stated whether King and Rook had moved.
Yea, thought about this for like 15 minutes and never considered castling was still legal
6:11 (pause and think) A2 Pawn promotes to queen. if you promote your g7 pawn to queen or anything else then black can win because you cant put him in check without saving your king, he can move his queen to a7 delivering a check and if you block with your rook to F2 he can eat the rook with the queen and checkmate you, if you move your king to h1 its checkmate with the bishop to B7 (black wins by checkmate) also if white blocks then queen check with his bishop to E3 then black can simply take the bishop and still checkmate white
If bishop to b7 then white can take the pawn
And he talked about it
I saw correctly until castles part which seemed funny at such an endgame scenario
i knew you would castle
What about king to D2 for white to move on the first move so that way black never gets a queen without it being taken?
6:20 what happens if black pushes the pawn instead of taking the bishop ?
The i guess rook to g5 check, and then f8 queen and h8 would be check mate, checks can be blocked by rook c5 protected by the queen.
6:12 if you look carefully there's that black bishop that can take down the white pawn then threatening the white rook forcing it to move it's position where it's unguarded by the queen. Then black pawn to a1 forcing the rook to take it down and black getting another queen using the b2 black pawn to take down the rook and getting promoted then forking the rook and check matting the white king without yet getting the pawn promoted to a queen forcing the king to move then black queen taking down the rook and threatening the pawn from promoting
And white ultimately lose to game
He didn't talk about that option but I think I would go ahead and queen my pawn anyway and risk losing my rook. If Bishop takes the pawn, then white Pf8 becomes a queen. Then black Bf1 captures the hanging rook but black is always in check after that and never promotes a pawn. White Qf7 check. Black Kg4. White Bc1 discovered check. If Black Kh3 then White Qh5 checkmate. If Black Kh4 then White Qf4 check, forcing black Kh3 then
White Qg4 checkmate.
Black did not have 2 moves to spend just getting a rook that wasn't needed for checkmate anyway.
This is the second time you've done this in a puzzle I've seen. When a game is THIS far along, how are we supposed to know if castling is still possible? Should it just be assumed because they're in the starting positions?
how do it know if there is a castle it is literally like a endgame
I’m getting better at these. I actually called most of these moves
I don’t understand the end, why checkmate? Can’t black go bishop h3 and offer an escape even if white goes queen h8 and then promote a pawn in the meantime?
Black be like: Let promote! PLS LET ME WIN!
7:24 has Qc2 forcing queen trade...but still winnable with bishop and rook....
This is like the opposite of don’t put all ur eggs in one basket, spreading them too far out is too hard to defend and is an inconvenience, if black pushed one of the pawns less he would have gotten another queen already and may have won the game
Always an unfair puzzle when you have to assume that castle is an option