When you start singing, it might occur that the voice is either 'there' or not. But the more we explore it's possibilities the more we uncover them. Sometimes a voice can even become another voice cathegory because you've uncovered it, what it really is. If you truly wanna sing, then you already have it and you will find yourself, that is your voice.
Although I'm a rock/pop singer, I have always categorized me as a baritenor. My influences have been David Bowie, Bryan Ferry, and even Elvis. I find that they range in that sweet spot. I've been active since 1985 fronting several groups, opening for majors acts, and was the 10-year frontman to the late Jorge Santana (97-07). Have been releasing well-received original music singles since 2020. You can catch more at my channel, but I'd be curious to hear if I'm in that category according to you ears! Thanks!
I believe this is where I’d put myself. I really appreciate your work and beautiful voice, Michael. I’ve loved opera for years! It’s wonderful having a word-class talent so close to home.
This is also where I would put myself. I seem to have a full baritone and tenor range even extending low and high for both but my voice seems to literally sit/rest right in between the two so now that I can sing well I can actually do both well.
My vocal range reach from G#2 to A#4 and I'm Baritenor. For what I was searching on internet Kurt D. Cobain and Gustavo Cerati have this tessitura. It's a dichotomy weird, idk, I can sing low or high but not too low or too high, but I'm in peace with my voice.
Yeah, Cobain had A4 often in his repertoire. Best teachers are great artists. I think still that the range might still be extended sometimes. The are a vast ammount of ways (might yet uncovered) to become a more free voice from constraints.
Happy to find some pro explaining categorization. First time I come across the etymology of tenor and baritone. Highly interesting. I was drawn to Spyres channel by a video that laudated its "vocal range". That's not my use of the term range. Range to me is about hitting high and low. Spyres seems (only one video I watched) to "never have wanted to to this". Aha, that's the "can sing" up above in the description, the word "repertoire" above I myself overread This channel enables me, to think over, what I just said too, it's lyrical, it's on the side of deliberated ambiguity. Edit as some later summing up: yeah: those two words have it all. A male voice that is must have "tenacity", endurance to compensate for what always is "light" in timbre which are frequencies made by the chord muscles you are born to, in physical lenght. With perseverance comes virtuosity, it's no "just jump". The baritone hasn't got the higher frequencies in built, and - no summing up, writing away: - to my mind it's the agility, it might be a paradox: It's the nerves that enable to sing high, with the baritone, and, just opposed, it's the muscle training as sheer strength that gives power - having worked-out a lot, I mean, the chords - to the tenor. Both intertwine. If you stretch in different direction you enlarge the repertoire of different angels, you get more i.e. different muscles that add to sheer strenght. Thus, the nerves make you stronger. Actually, getting on anyone nerves (smile; because it occured to me that "coldplaying" Chris Martin didn't say "everybody", and presumably as a master of saying didn't say anyone but said everyone, sorry for talking too much, this is "personal") will make you really want to survive or will not. Up above, in description text, "when a singer can sing both" I thought summed it up without explaining too much - the author is not bragging his explaining, he "says" more than he "tells" which suits me very fine as I tend to think and am easily hurt in my feelings. That much that I overread "repertoire". And there is German Fach. So there are challenges. Colloratura come to my mind as related to "lyrical" (Fach) opposed to "we can be hero" - new look at Bowie's lyrics among pros and non-pros - "just for a day". Beats me for the moment, I will be back, here, and hereby recommend this channel very much. Last thought: Spyres is not in for "tenacity", as it now occurs to me: colloratura I wouldn't have put to "virtuosity"; in my previous perception trying successfully to expand your range amounted to success, and at this place here I change my understanding of the term "virtuosity", as like in heavy metal to my mind there is sheer range, then belting, which, too, I conceive anew: belting is trying well to be tenacious; we do not want to lose our voice in a stadium. (I would like to note one more thought... lyricism and colloratura newly seen as virtuosity (the latter ter, from now on, does not primarily relate to hitting outside range any more, but took on blue, walk on the wild side) are some playful ability to handle not with care what you are doing, as you sure "can sing". To keep up the good work, that is performing and repertoir, you "cunningly" make the most of any error that thus does not even show. As it now occurs: as this might keep it from being boring, that can do, you may not "pro vise" different possibilities that exist, that happen. That's my tentative etymology of the word "to improvise". Collaratura, not just another word for improvising? To foresee the error is different from avoiding it. I think if you really understand the last sentence of the video saying that there are still baritones around you have it all. I should be one. (But no, as I couldn't do the Sinatra lows, Frank is not just a gigolo to me, he's among the baritones that are no more. Many more years of such kind and highly enlightening videos I herby wish). The "repertoire" is humbling pie. Thank you for your patience, should you read "that". If you manage to consider war as useful (and just) just do not read the following but delete now. "Just do it." I warned you. Just edited "cas ing both" (can sing both!), it's a typo I found, and I now find "lyrical" - as "it shows" the etymology of Casey and the sunshine band. "How" intersting - as I, "formerly", thought to have set up "to cash in on". That should teach about America as a land of plenty and of possibilites which are not even opportunites, lest "only way out". There's always some last exit. Drama exists. You should not deliberately opt for waging war; it's a mess in the end. However, some new start sure will have some "chances" then, as war goes with not being ambigous, mentally. Do or die. Don't ovedoe; for instance I could have put the above, formally into a reply to my reply: that would have easily been framed by the up town people as "lyrical gangster" I guess, a fine romantic young criminal, some blue, call it "what you want". Seen from that side to be categorized at all is the biggest picture to a frame. Again, guess you call that puttn on the Ritz, there are intervals; I will try that Astair song soon. Much is underrated and vice versa, thank you - which means: not fully understood. As US v. British is understanding versus commanding, U.S. as some Sam sung em - don't know "whose" - goose - bruise choose spruce ((via cannon, adderly, Adele is not too far out of reach, across the sky) --- it's Warhol: "Dont' know what's good any more." I shouldn't be "they drive them hard, sometimes it blows up" all the time. Some times does it Thank you for letting me try to pro-gress on some idiom I thought I knew quite well. This is being modest as some "rest" - as the latest is "ablatest", ablation from theory. Its later than late now i.e. too late to say sorry. Sorry is a word when it is hard to stop. "I'm a kind of guy hu". At least, this formally this is commenting on correcting a typo that admittingly, before, I did not manage to consider a huge one. As there was some use too it. See Edit of the Edit above.
Hello Mr Spyres. I Discoverd you for Real 2 years ago since i stared to take Voice-Singing lessons. Ive heard you and Mr Brown Lee singing in NYC. Stunning Performance from all of you three. My Question as follows. Could you imagine to sing in a Theaterproduction with Mr Brown Lee together? Like Riccardo e Zoraide? Or Rossinis Otello? Is this possible? You are the greatest two Tenors nowadays for me! And i would been blown away to See and here you both on the same stage!
I believe I’m a bari-tenor as well. At some point early in my singing, I one time went to a vocal coach and she said I’d hit middle C in chest, so I guess I thought I was a baritone. I can hit a C5 in chest now. But I’m definitely lifting a lot of weight up there.
You mean you hit a C5 in mixed voice? No male singer can hit a C5 in full chest (not even tenors), it's always a mix. You could be using a chesty MIX or balanced MIX. Hitting a C5 in full chest (as a male) is like a woman hitting a G5 in full chest. The male chest voice generally stops at D4-G4. What you are using is called “full voice” not “chest voice.”
In your two last sentences you mention "hit" and "weight" - in my opinion you may have left out endurance, tenacity, to be able to sing at the "hit" range for longer; I think it's as simple as that. You got to be trained that much that you can hold a note you hit, and sing that range as long as the director wants you to :-) 2nd I find it interesting that "lifting weight" you correlate somehow to "hitting". This morning, I believe that to hit a note means to be able to literally strongly punch a note which is opposed to falsetto. (Edit: I oddyl said "this morning", as I had some quote in my mind I never was able to from: "do the punch first" Punch I know as the the name of a historical, "satirical", newspapger.) Maybe "lifting" is the word, cp. pop diva Dua Lipa's word "Levitating" (Edit: it occurs that "what we do with our lips" might be modulation and selecting "overtones", the frequencies being "made" by the chords, them levitating...), that encompasses both: the agility to find a specific note correctly in some interval - which to me can be measured by frequency, whether you fail filling in so to say... - and "weight" refering to tenacity in the word tenor which is up to your "whim" as "vis", it's nothing wrong with cutting short; "we got to let go".
In my curren thinking "they" call it chest because it's not modulation with our lips "or so" but "awesome"-ly trained muscles "at work". And these are the chords, the "brakes"; not even the marroons or any hip muscles predominate, but I'm much less sure about it.There may be even more too it, sure is. Thank you!
@@maxpotential-4074 Incorrect, LOL 🤣 There is no such thing as "mixed voice" it's an illusion. There's only lightened chest voice that sounds somewhat similar to head voice. You're either in M1 or in M2.
I am a (young) Leggero who despite an « easy tessitura », is still conquering his highs an lows. I know for sure though that I won’t be a « Bari-Tenor » any soon. However, in regards to Baroque repertoire for Baritenors, I consider myself to be quite well versed (Master in Musicology). Aside from Francesco Borosini (Haendel’s Bajazet), there were lots of other « Baritenors » whose singing varied as much as their range and probably timbre (of which we have no concrete idea how they sounded like). Just to name a few: - Antonio Borosini (Francesco’s father, who at the end of his career sung as a Baritone, with the F clef) - Gaetano Borghi (probably THE Tenor with the most music written for him that has survived, very interesting, limited but agile range when he was hired to sing in Vienna from 1725 up to 1737). - Giovanni Paita (Vivaldi’s Tito) - Giambattista Pinacci (Haendel’s Massimo) - Francesco Tolve (Vinci’s Artabano) - Cesare Grandi (Vivaldi’s Catone) - Pietro de Mezzo (arguably a Baritone by today’s standards) - Marc’Antonio Mareschi (Vivaldi’s Clistene and Bajazet, arguably Baritone today) - Antonio Prati (great Creonte in Traetta’s Antigona) - Annibale Pio Fabbri (Haendel’s Emilio, Vivaldi’s Tamese, though some people nowadays would argue that he was a « lirico puro », probably based on some of his lover type roles) - Antonio Barbieri (Vivaldi’s Mamud) - Gregorio Babbi (Mazzoni’s Antigono and Latilla’s Cosroe) possibly had the same voice as Spyres, but all we know is that he was a dude with massive range. Other superstars like Filippo Giorgi, Angelo Amorevoli, Letterio Ferrari, Antonio Romani, Gaetano Pompeo Basteris and Giovanni Buzzoleni (my master subject) are more likely to be considered Leggeros or Light Lyric Tenors today, based on their usual range. To add to that you also had other amazing Tenors like Gaetano Ottani (also a painter), Francesco Guicciardi, Silvio Garghetti, Francesco Maria Cignoni, Tommaso Lucchi, Giovanni Francesco Costanzi, Ottavio Albuzzi, &c… who due to a more generic range (nevertheless filled with difficult leaps and vocalizations from time to time), would be harder to categorize. At the end of the day, all of those artists sung with the Tenor clef and made extensive careers with their Tenor voice. Haute-contres, now that’s another story, but I’d like to imagine that Amorevoli, Buzzoleni or even Babbi could’ve been Hautes-contre (Jélyotte himself went as low as B flat 2, which would be an A flat 2 today).
Baritenor passagigio C4 to F4, lyric tenor D4 to G4. Jack Jones, Frankie Laine & Bobby Rydell are perfect examples of a Baritenor. I am a singer, and I was friends with Bobby for a period. He has told me in conversation he was a Baritenor, and I agree, so am I.
I will research the term you use passagigio, what is it. I expected the 5 ("Mambo numba..."). What would that be: passagio C5 to F5, does ist exist. What is passagigio anyway? Range of unease opposed to "endurance" and "tenure". Opposed might be the belting that is deemed to fail, and this is "tragedy" (spelled like Bee Gees lyrics). Thanks a lot for advising, that's for taking note: there is some range called passagigio. Just one more thought I would like to inflict here: in that "range" my guess is that it's the half notes that appear as gigantesque, wheras the lyricism might lie in the wider intervals you sure can hit correctly. Thus, the term "Diva" might denot a person the repertoir cannot be sure of and I might mistake "colloratura" as like "passagigio" now looks ambigous to me. There is Jackson's "thriller" - there is "Triller" and Fach in German. And Capital Capa-Cities. My understanding is: the word Baritenor somehow denotes that it does not matter much if it's C4 to F4 or D4 to G4. On the other hand: whow, what a differenc one note makes. Interestingly, what you say relates to "why are there no black key there and there on the piano keyboard" ("St. I Wonder, blunder :-)).
@@sherom Thank you for minding me. Wikipedia is all about primo and secondo passagio, is that correct? C4-F4, D4-G4 refers to primo passaggio? If you feel like sparing even more time, some riddle: What passagio would you expect underneath a cry out of C6! I hit C6 first time, thanks to your advice I took to the piano keyboard. My regular speaking voice is plain C3.
C4 to F4 is dramatic tenor and heldentenor too and therefore spinto tenor at C#4 to F#4. Were there any baritenors singing dramatic and spinto tenor rep in addition to Domingo?
@@bradleymonroe6443 Yes, it's all crowded on that spot. I suppose for now that a Heldentenor and Baritenor are very related but that the first one has, by nature, without much training, already a loud voice so that the continuous high volume required, is for him is not so much a problem as it would be for the baritenor heavily relying on training, who would probably soon get exhausted.
Amazing. How did you know that you’re a baritenor as opposed to a baritone with an upper extension or tenor with a lower extension? This is something I’m currently trying to figure out with my teacher so any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated!
I'm gonna take a guess here and then I'll see if I was close when the upcoming vids are out :) My guess is that the baritone with a high extension would not be able to sustain the tenor tessitura for more than two arias. As for the converse, I'm guessing the lower range will never sound as convincing and dark and resonant as a bari's. Mainly speculation here of course, let's see what Mr. Spyres has to say about it in the next vids! :D
This a much needed discussion because the Classical singers place heavy emphasis on Timbre as if it automatically will agree with Range. Many of us find that our range agrees with Tenor range while our vocal weight and size agrees with Baritone. I find that in all regards, my passaggio is absolutely a very high Tenor but I use the term "Baritenor" out of a fatigue because in most cases people will think you're just a baritone with great range even if you blow tenors out of the water on top notes.
If you find you’re more comfortable as a tenor but have a heavy tone then you may just be one of the heavier set tenors, like a dramatic or a spinto tenor. Or even perhaps “Heldentenor,” but that is specifically a voice that specializes in Wagner.
@@joshuamclean4588 Hi, I posted this a year ago and I thought I'd update!, I've been tenor trained and my coach agrees with dramatic/spinto. Either way my passagio is about a G4 so we've been using that for technical reasons as my benchmark. It's very funny to know this because I went a lot of my life thinking that I was either a bass/baritone due to depth of tone, but alas, a lot of people confuse timbre for pitch.
@@Sloppyjoey1 right very good point. I also thought I was baritone a long time and in fact I am comfortable in that range a d can get pretty low, but my teacher also thinks my voice works more like a low tenor rather than high baritone. But I will just focusnon good singing technique and being comfortable and healthy and general good sjnging with what I’m singing and learn different styles etc… and the other stuff will work out such as what fache I would be best if I choose to sing classical.
@@Sloppyjoey1 plus Dramatic and low tenor are sometimes used interchangeably, but that isn’t always the case. It’s more tone. So me, I could possibly be a Baritenor because where my voice is comfortable and can get rich low notes and also tenor high notes but my teacher says I lean more towards low tenor and she says mainly because of the tone and warmth etc and I can see what she means. Where a high baritone can hit the high notes, they still sound like a baritone while a tenor has a register flip. I still get some heavy sounding notes too hence “baritenor,” or “heavy sounding tenor.” I can get quite high and also pretty low but whats important is where the voice shines and is most comfortable and resonant.
@@Sloppyjoey1 I’ll also not that even after finishing school Franco Corelli thought he was baritone for years but realized he was tenor and early on had to overcome challenges with his voice but ended his career known as one of the greatest tenors of all time. He specifically was a dramatic/spinto tenor like you. I have a great voice too but am only just starting classical training so not outting labels on it. I do seem to have a rich baritone like low range but am still able to sing the tenor part and as mentioned my teacher thinks I lean more towards tenor. Though personally I find my low range may be even stronger than some of the other low tenors but we will see. Not focused on labels just singing well with my unique voice.
Even the term baritone is a rather defuse one. When you look into old vocal scores of Mozart you don't find it. Almaviva, Figaro etc. all roles were categorised as bass. In Beethoven ninth Sinfonie you find the baritone, but today the audience expect more to hear a bass and at the end in the solo a capella quartet a baritone would disappear at the low f sharp. In the early 19th century "baritone" had an other meaning than today. An American who uses the word baritone sees in his inner eye a tall and big, strong man with a deep voice, which we Europeans would see as a serious bass. Perhaps the Italian composers invented the category of baritone in the 19th century, a dark voice with a high tessitura. In the sec. decade of the 20th these category became a fix standard. The gramophone was an instrument of globalization and standardisation. These super speciality of a "baritenor" could not find entrance into such fix thinking.
0:58 "to be honest ... a lot of singers didn't know..." - Admittingly I haven't learnt the continuation by heart viewing first or second time uh the third time my guess is - and I must thank the author for inducing what only seems my own associative thinking uh - -- that somehow the singers had to catch up with some better precision and/or loudness of the "orchestration". So, what is meant by "bigger and bigger"? Is it loudness, power or is it precision and virtuosity of better built metal instruments? Or, and that's my own point: is it the introducton of "metal" to orchestration? As the introduction of the electric guitar induced the heavy metal singing as adapting to new loudness and uh as it now occurs, thanks to this video, as adaptation to the "baryness" of the e-guitar that only by sheer strength in the endurance, in the tenoricity, the holding of one one and playing around, that thus just became some unexpected competitor to the singer. Heavy metal as the exaggeration of the electrical power caused force and strength of the belting. Actually, quite important, the difference between pop and classical genre may lie in the belting or not. Edit: meanwhile I listened to what Spyres told next. The word is "large". Still the same, in my brain, same ambiguity as "big". One alternative is that instrumental industrial production of high quality metal and wood ware gave the orchestration a wider range, maybe just better highs and lows. As large and big both seem ambigous let me assume Spyres alludes to both: loudness, the baryness, and tenacity. As is occurs only now: the ""Fach" be it that German term or the categorization as more and more specification which in some interesting way underwent in the era of industrializiation and population "explosion" (that's some German term, "Kindergarten" is of comparison) both imply the task and the challeng of some "role", both categorization may be at the same level, refering to "what's given, what you have" and what you are "up to". Baritone and tenor maybe "well meant" categorization however they indicate what's the intricacy in the specific category, what they sure are gonne be lacking in some words. To verify this understanding of mine: The baritone needs strength - - to memorize: this looks like a paradox, intuitively the tenor, vice versa is weak in the lows which leads to: --- in the baritone range. As the force is "with him", there lies no fear or make me do in that range for the baritone, this strength must "descend from above. This way of understand, indeed, makes the baritenor look like the regular case, as it apparently before 1840. How could a baritone "gain" the baryness if he is no tenor, and vice versa.
Edit as low down: The visuals make me find some possible etymology of the word "to cover" and to elaborate on that. Here's the blogg to it. That kind of visual starter - what is the categorization of that laughter, "I'd be interested" (literal translated from German: "würde mich interessieren" to be added to what you may be some question (with Spyres you might as well to find the wit in skipping the quotation mark which ain't easy: to skip it you got to be able to put it). To me some plausible etymology for "to cover" came to my mind, gazing the brick wall in the background: it's "to go for". What I said ain't no talking along. I'm sure sure there is "sing along with me" all right, on one side, on the other sider there lies the cover which has strict double meaning: to cover with beauty might demean a perfect copy - why not take the original, kind of boring unless you "let me simply adore you", the mastery which surely is technical and thus "dramatic", not lyrical, it's do or die, it's "high c battle", in the end (not boring, it's the failure that makes a difference, only the "strong" survive..) --- on the other hand "to go for", to cover, may be illustrated by hitting different bricks of that wall in the background to find about the consistency of the tiles. So there is some Rohe Grohe faucet tab to it, but we all need the good rhyme. There are videos and even shorts where Paul McCartney tells about his song writing. It seems easy. It's not. There must be the pressure of assimilation, and I think '"to cover with beauty" might even demean lyrical songwriting that dwells on blunders and blue notes. There "must" be "composition" thought that reaches out and has Wagnerian mind which I hereby assume "takes on" - aha - a singer that may be "some" baritenor - see co comment from an old pro: pejorative - but "just" only just hits the E5 sharply. Does not suffice, we strive for a different continuation in our composing then. Tears for fears.
so absurd, lol. A tenor that thinks he's a baritone by singing woofy and tongue tensed/forcing the larynx down. And the fact that he thinks he has a low speaking voice is hilarious, legitimate baritones speak lower than he does (search cornell macneil for reference).
I defunti grandi interpreti d'opera del passato confuterebbero la tua presunzione soggettiva, non radicata nei fatti. Manuel Garcia I, Domenico Donzelli e Andrea Nozzari, ecc. erano entrambi tenori eppure erano noti per cantare anche ruoli da baritono, cosa che non si vede spesso, anche durante quest'ultimo, il cosiddetto "Golden Revival" degli anni '30- anni '50. Infatti Manuel Garcia I riuscì anche a padroneggiare la fonazione vocale in falsetto a tal punto che, in una sua tonadilla, El poeta calculista, poté eseguire un duetto con se stesso, dove cantò sia la parte del tenore che quella del soprano. Qualcosa che anche gli ultimi tenori più moderni come Franco Corelli, Mario del Monaco, Richard Tucker, ecc. non sono riusciti a imparare e raggiungere.
@@EmilyGloeggler7984 Parli già l’italiano ?! Bravo ! Un mese fa parlando di Rigoletto avevo spiegato a un giovane baritono che il Baritono durante il ruolo deve servirsi della vocalità del baritono, basso baritono, tenore leggero e del tenore drammatico. Questa è la mia modesta opinione. Sono un vecchio fan accanito di Garcia e la sua scuola . Poi cosa stai dicendo tu di me purtroppo non ha nessun valore perché ? 1 Non mi conosci 2 Non hai sentito mai come cantavo all’epoca . Mi conosci ? No. Hai cantato con me ? No. Alla fine dei conti mi chiedo a cosa serve il tuo monologo ?! Da anni la vera arte lirica è morta sepolta per sempre. Non lo sapevi prima ?!… il vecchio
@@EmilyGloeggler7984 segue Quando non sai di che cosa sto parlando perché sei ostile ?! Informati piccolino prima di sparare delle sentenze… 66-70 anni fa l’espressione baritenore purtroppo non era un complimento, anzi … Anche per il Grande Enrico Caruso i saccenti di quest’epoca in Italia dicevano che è un baritono non è un tenore vero !!!!! Informati. Parlare a vanvera come lo fai tu è una cosa , di riuscire alla fine della recita di Rigoletto di far piangere il pubblico con il tuo canto completamente un altra. Bravo per il tuo italiano! Così all’avvenire avrò la fortuna di capire meglio il tuo pensier profondo… Un consiglio , cerca di evitare di parlare di cose e persone che non conosci. Saluti . il vecchio
When you start singing, it might occur that the voice is either 'there' or not. But the more we explore it's possibilities the more we uncover them. Sometimes a voice can even become another voice cathegory because you've uncovered it, what it really is. If you truly wanna sing, then you already have it and you will find yourself, that is your voice.
Although I'm a rock/pop singer, I have always categorized me as a baritenor. My influences have been David Bowie, Bryan Ferry, and even Elvis. I find that they range in that sweet spot. I've been active since 1985 fronting several groups, opening for majors acts, and was the 10-year frontman to the late Jorge Santana (97-07). Have been releasing well-received original music singles since 2020. You can catch more at my channel, but I'd be curious to hear if I'm in that category according to you ears! Thanks!
I believe this is where I’d put myself. I really appreciate your work and beautiful voice, Michael. I’ve loved opera for years! It’s wonderful having a word-class talent so close to home.
This is also where I would put myself.
I seem to have a full baritone and tenor range even extending low and high for both but my voice seems to literally sit/rest right in between the two so now that I can sing well I can actually do both well.
Это тоже самое как и меццо-контральто, голос сочетающий в себе черты аак и контральто, так и меццо сопрано.
My vocal range reach from G#2 to A#4 and I'm Baritenor. For what I was searching on internet Kurt D. Cobain and Gustavo Cerati have this tessitura. It's a dichotomy weird, idk, I can sing low or high but not too low or too high, but I'm in peace with my voice.
Yeah, Cobain had A4 often in his repertoire. Best teachers are great artists. I think still that the range might still be extended sometimes. The are a vast ammount of ways (might yet uncovered) to become a more free voice from constraints.
Happy to find some pro explaining categorization. First time I come across the etymology of tenor and baritone. Highly interesting. I was drawn to Spyres channel by a video that laudated its "vocal range". That's not my use of the term range. Range to me is about hitting high and low. Spyres seems (only one video I watched) to "never have wanted to to this". Aha, that's the "can sing" up above in the description, the word "repertoire" above I myself overread This channel enables me, to think over, what I just said too, it's lyrical, it's on the side of deliberated ambiguity.
Edit as some later summing up: yeah: those two words have it all. A male voice that is must have "tenacity", endurance to compensate for what always is "light" in timbre which are frequencies made by the chord muscles you are born to, in physical lenght. With perseverance comes virtuosity, it's no "just jump". The baritone hasn't got the higher frequencies in built, and - no summing up, writing away: - to my mind it's the agility, it might be a paradox: It's the nerves that enable to sing high, with the baritone, and, just opposed, it's the muscle training as sheer strength that gives power - having worked-out a lot, I mean, the chords - to the tenor. Both intertwine. If you stretch in different direction you enlarge the repertoire of different angels, you get more i.e. different muscles that add to sheer strenght. Thus, the nerves make you stronger. Actually, getting on anyone nerves (smile; because it occured to me that "coldplaying" Chris Martin didn't say "everybody", and presumably as a master of saying didn't say anyone but said everyone, sorry for talking too much, this is "personal") will make you really want to survive or will not.
Up above, in description text, "when a singer can sing both" I thought summed it up without explaining too much - the author is not bragging his explaining, he "says" more than he "tells" which suits me very fine as I tend to think and am easily hurt in my feelings. That much that I overread "repertoire". And there is German Fach. So there are challenges. Colloratura come to my mind as related to "lyrical" (Fach) opposed to "we can be hero" - new look at Bowie's lyrics among pros and non-pros - "just for a day". Beats me for the moment, I will be back, here, and hereby recommend this channel very much. Last thought: Spyres is not in for "tenacity", as it now occurs to me: colloratura I wouldn't have put to "virtuosity"; in my previous perception trying successfully to expand your range amounted to success, and at this place here I change my understanding of the term "virtuosity", as like in heavy metal to my mind there is sheer range, then belting, which, too, I conceive anew: belting is trying well to be tenacious; we do not want to lose our voice in a stadium. (I would like to note one more thought... lyricism and colloratura newly seen as virtuosity (the latter ter, from now on, does not primarily relate to hitting outside range any more, but took on blue, walk on the wild side) are some playful ability to handle not with care what you are doing, as you sure "can sing". To keep up the good work, that is performing and repertoir, you "cunningly" make the most of any error that thus does not even show. As it now occurs: as this might keep it from being boring, that can do, you may not "pro vise" different possibilities that exist, that happen. That's my tentative etymology of the word "to improvise". Collaratura, not just another word for improvising? To foresee the error is different from avoiding it.
I think if you really understand the last sentence of the video saying that there are still baritones around you have it all. I should be one. (But no, as I couldn't do the Sinatra lows, Frank is not just a gigolo to me, he's among the baritones that are no more. Many more years of such kind and highly enlightening videos I herby wish).
The "repertoire" is humbling pie. Thank you for your patience, should you read "that".
If you manage to consider war as useful (and just) just do not read the following but delete now. "Just do it." I warned you.
Just edited "cas ing both" (can sing both!), it's a typo I found, and I now find "lyrical" - as "it shows" the etymology of Casey and the sunshine band. "How" intersting - as I, "formerly", thought to have set up "to cash in on". That should teach about America as a land of plenty and of possibilites which are not even opportunites, lest "only way out". There's always some last exit. Drama exists. You should not deliberately opt for waging war; it's a mess in the end. However, some new start sure will have some "chances" then, as war goes with not being ambigous, mentally. Do or die. Don't ovedoe; for instance I could have put the above, formally into a reply to my reply: that would have easily been framed by the up town people as "lyrical gangster" I guess, a fine romantic young criminal, some blue, call it "what you want". Seen from that side to be categorized at all is the biggest picture to a frame. Again, guess you call that puttn on the Ritz, there are intervals; I will try that Astair song soon. Much is underrated and vice versa, thank you - which means: not fully understood. As US v. British is understanding versus commanding, U.S. as some Sam sung em - don't know "whose" - goose - bruise choose spruce ((via cannon, adderly, Adele is not too far out of reach, across the sky) --- it's Warhol: "Dont' know what's good any more." I shouldn't be "they drive them hard, sometimes it blows up" all the time. Some times does it
Thank you for letting me try to pro-gress on some idiom I thought I knew quite well. This is being modest as some "rest" - as the latest is "ablatest", ablation from theory. Its later than late now i.e. too late to say sorry. Sorry is a word when it is hard to stop. "I'm a kind of guy hu". At least, this formally this is commenting on correcting a typo that admittingly, before, I did not manage to consider a huge one. As there was some use too it. See Edit of the Edit above.
Hello Mr Spyres. I Discoverd you for Real 2 years ago since i stared to take Voice-Singing lessons. Ive heard you and Mr Brown Lee singing in NYC. Stunning Performance from all of you three. My Question as follows. Could you imagine to sing in a Theaterproduction with Mr Brown Lee together? Like Riccardo e Zoraide? Or Rossinis Otello? Is this possible? You are the greatest two Tenors nowadays for me! And i would been blown away to See and here you both on the same stage!
I Believe I'm a Baritenor/Baritone Martin/Light Baritone
A passaggio points might help in finding identity of a voice. If it's around c4, the first one then it might be it. :)
@@valejkinas2900 thank you
I believe I’m a bari-tenor as well. At some point early in my singing, I one time went to a vocal coach and she said I’d hit middle C in chest, so I guess I thought I was a baritone. I can hit a C5 in chest now. But I’m definitely lifting a lot of weight up there.
You mean you hit a C5 in mixed voice? No male singer can hit a C5 in full chest (not even tenors), it's always a mix. You could be using a chesty MIX or balanced MIX. Hitting a C5 in full chest (as a male) is like a woman hitting a G5 in full chest. The male chest voice generally stops at D4-G4. What you are using is called “full voice” not “chest voice.”
@@maxpotential-4074 What ab counter tenor?
In your two last sentences you mention "hit" and "weight" - in my opinion you may have left out endurance, tenacity, to be able to sing at the "hit" range for longer; I think it's as simple as that. You got to be trained that much that you can hold a note you hit, and sing that range as long as the director wants you to :-)
2nd I find it interesting that "lifting weight" you correlate somehow to "hitting". This morning, I believe that to hit a note means to be able to literally strongly punch a note which is opposed to falsetto. (Edit: I oddyl said "this morning", as I had some quote in my mind I never was able to from: "do the punch first" Punch I know as the the name of a historical, "satirical", newspapger.) Maybe "lifting" is the word, cp. pop diva Dua Lipa's word "Levitating" (Edit: it occurs that "what we do with our lips" might be modulation and selecting "overtones", the frequencies being "made" by the chords, them levitating...), that encompasses both: the agility to find a specific note correctly in some interval - which to me can be measured by frequency, whether you fail filling in so to say... - and "weight" refering to tenacity in the word tenor which is up to your "whim" as "vis", it's nothing wrong with cutting short; "we got to let go".
In my curren thinking "they" call it chest because it's not modulation with our lips "or so" but "awesome"-ly trained muscles "at work". And these are the chords, the "brakes"; not even the marroons or any hip muscles predominate, but I'm much less sure about it.There may be even more too it, sure is. Thank you!
@@maxpotential-4074 Incorrect, LOL 🤣
There is no such thing as "mixed voice" it's an illusion. There's only lightened chest voice that sounds somewhat similar to head voice. You're either in M1 or in M2.
I am a (young) Leggero who despite an « easy tessitura », is still conquering his highs an lows. I know for sure though that I won’t be a « Bari-Tenor » any soon.
However, in regards to Baroque repertoire for Baritenors, I consider myself to be quite well versed (Master in Musicology). Aside from Francesco Borosini (Haendel’s Bajazet), there were lots of other « Baritenors » whose singing varied as much as their range and probably timbre (of which we have no concrete idea how they sounded like). Just to name a few:
- Antonio Borosini (Francesco’s father, who at the end of his career sung as a Baritone, with the F clef)
- Gaetano Borghi (probably THE Tenor with the most music written for him that has survived, very interesting, limited but agile range when he was hired to sing in Vienna from 1725 up to 1737).
- Giovanni Paita (Vivaldi’s Tito)
- Giambattista Pinacci (Haendel’s Massimo)
- Francesco Tolve (Vinci’s Artabano)
- Cesare Grandi (Vivaldi’s Catone)
- Pietro de Mezzo (arguably a Baritone by today’s standards)
- Marc’Antonio Mareschi (Vivaldi’s Clistene and Bajazet, arguably Baritone today)
- Antonio Prati (great Creonte in Traetta’s Antigona)
- Annibale Pio Fabbri (Haendel’s Emilio, Vivaldi’s Tamese, though some people nowadays would argue that he was a « lirico puro », probably based on some of his lover type roles)
- Antonio Barbieri (Vivaldi’s Mamud)
- Gregorio Babbi (Mazzoni’s Antigono and Latilla’s Cosroe) possibly had the same voice as Spyres, but all we know is that he was a dude with massive range.
Other superstars like Filippo Giorgi, Angelo Amorevoli, Letterio Ferrari, Antonio Romani, Gaetano Pompeo Basteris and Giovanni Buzzoleni (my master subject) are more likely to be considered Leggeros or Light Lyric Tenors today, based on their usual range. To add to that you also had other amazing Tenors like Gaetano Ottani (also a painter), Francesco Guicciardi, Silvio Garghetti, Francesco Maria Cignoni, Tommaso Lucchi, Giovanni Francesco Costanzi, Ottavio Albuzzi, &c… who due to a more generic range (nevertheless filled with difficult leaps and vocalizations from time to time), would be harder to categorize.
At the end of the day, all of those artists sung with the Tenor clef and made extensive careers with their Tenor voice.
Haute-contres, now that’s another story, but I’d like to imagine that Amorevoli, Buzzoleni or even Babbi could’ve been Hautes-contre (Jélyotte himself went as low as B flat 2, which would be an A flat 2 today).
Baritenor passagigio C4 to F4, lyric tenor D4 to G4. Jack Jones, Frankie Laine & Bobby Rydell are perfect examples of a Baritenor. I am a singer, and I was friends with Bobby for a period. He has told me in conversation he was a Baritenor, and I agree, so am I.
I will research the term you use passagigio, what is it. I expected the 5 ("Mambo numba..."). What would that be: passagio C5 to F5, does ist exist. What is passagigio anyway? Range of unease opposed to "endurance" and "tenure". Opposed might be the belting that is deemed to fail, and this is "tragedy" (spelled like Bee Gees lyrics).
Thanks a lot for advising, that's for taking note: there is some range called passagigio. Just one more thought I would like to inflict here: in that "range" my guess is that it's the half notes that appear as gigantesque, wheras the lyricism might lie in the wider intervals you sure can hit correctly. Thus, the term "Diva" might denot a person the repertoir cannot be sure of and I might mistake "colloratura" as like "passagigio" now looks ambigous to me. There is Jackson's "thriller" - there is "Triller" and Fach in German. And Capital Capa-Cities.
My understanding is: the word Baritenor somehow denotes that it does not matter much if it's C4 to F4 or D4 to G4. On the other hand: whow, what a differenc one note makes. Interestingly, what you say relates to "why are there no black key there and there on the piano keyboard" ("St. I Wonder, blunder :-)).
@@peterbernhard7415 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passaggio
@@sherom Thank you for minding me. Wikipedia is all about primo and secondo passagio, is that correct? C4-F4, D4-G4 refers to primo passaggio?
If you feel like sparing even more time, some riddle: What passagio would you expect underneath a cry out of C6! I hit C6 first time, thanks to your advice I took to the piano keyboard. My regular speaking voice is plain C3.
C4 to F4 is dramatic tenor and heldentenor too and therefore spinto tenor at C#4 to F#4. Were there any baritenors singing dramatic and spinto tenor rep in addition to Domingo?
@@bradleymonroe6443 Yes, it's all crowded on that spot. I suppose for now that a Heldentenor and Baritenor are very related but that the first one has, by nature, without much training, already a loud voice so that the continuous high volume required, is for him is not so much a problem as it would be for the baritenor heavily relying on training, who would probably soon get exhausted.
Amazing. How did you know that you’re a baritenor as opposed to a baritone with an upper extension or tenor with a lower extension? This is something I’m currently trying to figure out with my teacher so any thoughts you have would be greatly appreciated!
I think this might be covered in on of the upcoming videos
I'm gonna take a guess here and then I'll see if I was close when the upcoming vids are out :) My guess is that the baritone with a high extension would not be able to sustain the tenor tessitura for more than two arias. As for the converse, I'm guessing the lower range will never sound as convincing and dark and resonant as a bari's. Mainly speculation here of course, let's see what Mr. Spyres has to say about it in the next vids! :D
This a much needed discussion because the Classical singers place heavy emphasis on Timbre as if it automatically will agree with Range. Many of us find that our range agrees with Tenor range while our vocal weight and size agrees with Baritone. I find that in all regards, my passaggio is absolutely a very high Tenor but I use the term "Baritenor" out of a fatigue because in most cases people will think you're just a baritone with great range even if you blow tenors out of the water on top notes.
If you find you’re more comfortable as a tenor but have a heavy tone then you may just be one of the heavier set tenors, like a dramatic or a spinto tenor. Or even perhaps “Heldentenor,” but that is specifically a voice that specializes in Wagner.
@@joshuamclean4588 Hi, I posted this a year ago and I thought I'd update!, I've been tenor trained and my coach agrees with dramatic/spinto. Either way my passagio is about a G4 so we've been using that for technical reasons as my benchmark.
It's very funny to know this because I went a lot of my life thinking that I was either a bass/baritone due to depth of tone, but alas, a lot of people confuse timbre for pitch.
@@Sloppyjoey1 right very good point. I also thought I was baritone a long time and in fact I am comfortable in that range a d can get pretty low, but my teacher also thinks my voice works more like a low tenor rather than high baritone. But I will just focusnon good singing technique and being comfortable and healthy and general good sjnging with what I’m singing and learn different styles etc… and the other stuff will work out such as what fache I would be best if I choose to sing classical.
@@Sloppyjoey1 plus Dramatic and low tenor are sometimes used interchangeably, but that isn’t always the case. It’s more tone. So me, I could possibly be a Baritenor because where my voice is comfortable and can get rich low notes and also tenor high notes but my teacher says I lean more towards low tenor and she says mainly because of the tone and warmth etc and I can see what she means. Where a high baritone can hit the high notes, they still sound like a baritone while a tenor has a register flip. I still get some heavy sounding notes too hence “baritenor,” or “heavy sounding tenor.”
I can get quite high and also pretty low but whats important is where the voice shines and is most comfortable and resonant.
@@Sloppyjoey1 I’ll also not that even after finishing school Franco Corelli thought he was baritone for years but realized he was tenor and early on had to overcome challenges with his voice but ended his career known as one of the greatest tenors of all time. He specifically was a dramatic/spinto tenor like you. I have a great voice too but am only just starting classical training so not outting labels on it. I do seem to have a rich baritone like low range but am still able to sing the tenor part and as mentioned my teacher thinks I lean more towards tenor. Though personally I find my low range may be even stronger than some of the other low tenors but we will see. Not focused on labels just singing well with my unique voice.
Ramon Vinay was a good example.
He was a bassitenor
David Muller I agree
@@andrewlauandrade9109 Respectfully disagreed he only sang one bass role and it didn't sound right with his voice.
"Many people think it's a made up word"
Ah yes, as opposed to words we didn't make up
Is the Don Giovanni Canzonetta in the background his version? I have been looking for it for two days
Even the term baritone is a rather defuse one. When you look into old vocal scores of Mozart you don't find it. Almaviva, Figaro etc. all roles were categorised as bass. In Beethoven ninth Sinfonie you find the baritone, but today the audience expect more to hear a bass and at the end in the solo a capella quartet a baritone would disappear at the low f sharp. In the early 19th century "baritone" had an other meaning than today.
An American who uses the word baritone sees in his inner eye a tall and big, strong man with a deep voice, which we Europeans would see as a serious bass.
Perhaps the Italian composers invented the category of baritone in the 19th century, a dark voice with a high tessitura. In the sec. decade of the 20th these category became a fix standard. The gramophone was an instrument of globalization and standardisation.
These super speciality of a "baritenor" could not find entrance into such fix thinking.
0:58 "to be honest ... a lot of singers didn't know..." - Admittingly I haven't learnt the continuation by heart viewing first or second time uh the third time my guess is - and I must thank the author for inducing what only seems my own associative thinking uh - -- that somehow the singers had to catch up with some better precision and/or loudness of the "orchestration". So, what is meant by "bigger and bigger"? Is it loudness, power or is it precision and virtuosity of better built metal instruments? Or, and that's my own point: is it the introducton of "metal" to orchestration? As the introduction of the electric guitar induced the heavy metal singing as adapting to new loudness and uh as it now occurs, thanks to this video, as adaptation to the "baryness" of the e-guitar that only by sheer strength in the endurance, in the tenoricity, the holding of one one and playing around, that thus just became some unexpected competitor to the singer. Heavy metal as the exaggeration of the electrical power caused force and strength of the belting. Actually, quite important, the difference between pop and classical genre may lie in the belting or not. Edit: meanwhile I listened to what Spyres told next. The word is "large". Still the same, in my brain, same ambiguity as "big". One alternative is that instrumental industrial production of high quality metal and wood ware gave the orchestration a wider range, maybe just better highs and lows. As large and big both seem ambigous let me assume Spyres alludes to both: loudness, the baryness, and tenacity. As is occurs only now: the ""Fach" be it that German term or the categorization as more and more specification which in some interesting way underwent in the era of industrializiation and population "explosion" (that's some German term, "Kindergarten" is of comparison) both imply the task and the challeng of some "role", both categorization may be at the same level, refering to "what's given, what you have" and what you are "up to". Baritone and tenor maybe "well meant" categorization however they indicate what's the intricacy in the specific category, what they sure are gonne be lacking in some words. To verify this understanding of mine: The baritone needs strength - - to memorize: this looks like a paradox, intuitively the tenor, vice versa is weak in the lows which leads to: --- in the baritone range. As the force is "with him", there lies no fear or make me do in that range for the baritone, this strength must "descend from above. This way of understand, indeed, makes the baritenor look like the regular case, as it apparently before 1840. How could a baritone "gain" the baryness if he is no tenor, and vice versa.
Edit as low down: The visuals make me find some possible etymology of the word "to cover" and to elaborate on that. Here's the blogg to it.
That kind of visual starter - what is the categorization of that laughter, "I'd be interested" (literal translated from German: "würde mich interessieren" to be added to what you may be some question (with Spyres you might as well to find the wit in skipping the quotation mark which ain't easy: to skip it you got to be able to put it).
To me some plausible etymology for "to cover" came to my mind, gazing the brick wall in the background: it's "to go for".
What I said ain't no talking along. I'm sure sure there is "sing along with me" all right, on one side, on the other sider there lies the cover which has strict double meaning: to cover with beauty might demean a perfect copy - why not take the original, kind of boring unless you "let me simply adore you", the mastery which surely is technical and thus "dramatic", not lyrical, it's do or die, it's "high c battle", in the end (not boring, it's the failure that makes a difference, only the "strong" survive..) --- on the other hand "to go for", to cover, may be illustrated by hitting different bricks of that wall in the background to find about the consistency of the tiles. So there is some Rohe Grohe faucet tab to it, but we all need the good rhyme. There are videos and even shorts where Paul McCartney tells about his song writing. It seems easy. It's not. There must be the pressure of assimilation, and I think '"to cover with beauty" might even demean lyrical songwriting that dwells on blunders and blue notes. There "must" be "composition" thought that reaches out and has Wagnerian mind which I hereby assume "takes on" - aha - a singer that may be "some" baritenor - see co comment from an old pro: pejorative - but "just" only just hits the E5 sharply. Does not suffice, we strive for a different continuation in our composing then. Tears for fears.
Could you please put subtitles in Spanish? for the Hispanic public
Done
Thank you very much Michael, I look forward to the contents
我B3一換二換Eb4
But you're a leggero tenor aren't you?
so absurd, lol. A tenor that thinks he's a baritone by singing woofy and tongue tensed/forcing the larynx down. And the fact that he thinks he has a low speaking voice is hilarious, legitimate baritones speak lower than he does (search cornell macneil for reference).
O sei un baritono o sei un tenore vero.
Baritenore è un’espressione negativa , almeno era così 66 anni fa…
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I don't think Manuel García would say the same lol (at least considering his tessitura and his repertoire)
@@eliascastillorivera7130 You are accurate.
I defunti grandi interpreti d'opera del passato confuterebbero la tua presunzione soggettiva, non radicata nei fatti. Manuel Garcia I, Domenico Donzelli e Andrea Nozzari, ecc. erano entrambi tenori eppure erano noti per cantare anche ruoli da baritono, cosa che non si vede spesso, anche durante quest'ultimo, il cosiddetto "Golden Revival" degli anni '30- anni '50. Infatti Manuel Garcia I riuscì anche a padroneggiare la fonazione vocale in falsetto a tal punto che, in una sua tonadilla, El poeta calculista, poté eseguire un duetto con se stesso, dove cantò sia la parte del tenore che quella del soprano. Qualcosa che anche gli ultimi tenori più moderni come Franco Corelli, Mario del Monaco, Richard Tucker, ecc. non sono riusciti a imparare e raggiungere.
@@EmilyGloeggler7984
Parli già l’italiano ?!
Bravo !
Un mese fa parlando di Rigoletto avevo spiegato a un giovane baritono che il Baritono durante il ruolo deve servirsi della vocalità del baritono, basso baritono, tenore leggero e del tenore drammatico.
Questa è la mia modesta opinione.
Sono un vecchio fan accanito di Garcia e la sua scuola .
Poi cosa stai dicendo tu di me purtroppo non ha nessun valore perché ?
1 Non mi conosci
2 Non hai sentito mai come cantavo all’epoca .
Mi conosci ?
No.
Hai cantato con me ?
No.
Alla fine dei conti mi chiedo a cosa serve il tuo monologo ?!
Da anni la vera arte lirica è morta sepolta per sempre.
Non lo sapevi prima ?!…
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@@EmilyGloeggler7984
segue
Quando non sai di che cosa sto parlando perché sei ostile ?!
Informati piccolino prima di sparare delle sentenze…
66-70 anni fa l’espressione baritenore purtroppo non era un complimento, anzi …
Anche per il Grande Enrico Caruso
i saccenti di quest’epoca in Italia dicevano che è un baritono non è un tenore vero !!!!!
Informati.
Parlare a vanvera come lo fai tu è una cosa , di riuscire alla fine della recita di Rigoletto di far piangere il pubblico con il tuo canto completamente un altra.
Bravo per il tuo italiano!
Così all’avvenire avrò la fortuna di capire meglio il tuo pensier profondo…
Un consiglio , cerca di evitare di parlare di cose e persone che non conosci.
Saluti .
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