Ernst Krenek - Piano Sonata No. 7, Op. 240 (1988) [Score-Video]

Ernst Krenek - Piano Sonata No. 7, Op. 240 (1988)
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[@adigozelov-enjoyer]

Excellent, enjoyable atonal piece

[@scottgilesmusic]

This is an excellent performance of a fascinating work that captures some uncommon emotions.

[@jamesgorman8751]

I think I heard, in the opening , the opening of To Kill a Mockingbird' No?

[@Sulsfort]

What does the round arrows in the beginning mean?

[@igorkreszow8983]

It's a slight accelerando or ritardando.

[@michaeledwards1172]

Which is which? When I look at it, it's not immediately obvious.
This seems to be a case of a composer needlessly inventing a new notation for something that already has a standard notation - that is, in this case, the instructions "accel." and "ritard.".

[@faktablad]

​@@michaeledwards1172 obviously the forward pointing arrows = push ahead and the backwards arrows = hold back

[@michaeledwards1172]

@@faktablad I've just seen the footnote at the bottom of the first page of score.
The meaning might seem obvious - but the arrows didn't quite suggest anything to me intuitively in that context. That is, if I were sight-reading this at the piano for the first time, I wouldn't instantly, instinctively, know what to do, but would have to think about it for a little, even if it were just a couple of seconds.
If I had written this, I would more likely have used a series of "poco accel." and "poco rall.", or if that became too cluttered and awkward, I might have used Cage-ian spatial notation, where the horizontal spacing of the notes suggests faster or slow (together with an explanatory footnote). (Using it only for those cadenza, not the whole score.)

[@michaeledwards1172]

The first bass note is not found on most pianos - like maybe 99 out of 100 pianos, if not 999 out of 1,000, or even 9,999 out of 10,000. So would it be better to play the whole chord an octave higher, or perhaps change the low Ab to A (which is the bottom note of almost all pianos)?
I do sometimes wonder what composers are thinking when they write things that almost no-one can play as written.

[@arielorthmann4061]

Better to play a flat A same octave, no one will hear the difference at such a low level

[@gerardbegni2806]

I fully agree with you. For instance, in Messiaen's "Vingt regards" (1944) tou can find the low xluster A - Bb- B with pedal. Indeed, the composer was awaaiting a low percussive sound. Nobody can alayze this cluster a such a low level with pedal.

[@adigozelov-enjoyer]

Yes, at that register it would be more of a textural element than a discernible sound...

[@michaeledwards1172]

@@arielorthmann4061 I wonder if it is possible the low notes are intended to bring out overtones and sympathetic vibrations in the right hand. In that case, keeping the exact note might matter, and if the low A-flat is unavailable, maybe it would be better to shift it up an octave rather than changing it to the neighbouring A-natural.
In another example of dealing with the problems around desired but unavailable low notes, I am a little surprised that Ravel, in "Jeux d'Eau", accepted (and wrote in the score) the low A in a passage that obviously really calls for the unavailable low G-sharp. I think, in this situation, that you can distinguish the pitch, and, while I try to accept the low, out-of-tune A, because Ravel clearly accepted it, I nonetheless feel that it doesn't sound right. An alternative would be to make do with the lowest G-sharp, even though It's an octave higher than the desired lower G-sharp.

[@michaeledwards1172]

@@arielorthmann4061 Hmm... I wonder.... If you can, could you go to a piano and play, first of all, the bottom two As - just that bare octave. Now, change the low A to Bb and play it with the upper A. You can't hear the difference? I certainly can. Now play the low A by Itself, and then the Bb. You can't clearly hear the semitone interval there? I can.
There are a few pieces where the composer writes in the low A where the context would suggest Ab/G# instead, or even G. I grant that, because of the instruments playing with the piano at the end of Ravel's Piano Concerto in G major, you can't really tell that the piano is playing the wrong note - although, if it were practical for me at the moment to try playing that final note of the concerto, using good-quality loud-speakers, I would like to check, just to make sure. But when the low A substitutes for G# in Ravel's "Jeux d'Eau", and for G in Bax's 4th Piano Sonata, I can clearly hear the difference, and those passages have never felt quite right to me.

[@CatkhosruShapurrjiFurabji]

Based

[@정유찬-d8z]

1:45

[@chloroxiphite]

Is this a serial piece?

[@JaredRedmondPianist]

is this the Madge recording?

[@adigozelov-enjoyer]

Yes

[@TheCitybike]

I Like a lot this sonata. But the first chord with the left hand is too deep. I have not Ab in my piano