Lack of Promotion/Relegation hurts American youth soccer!
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- Опубликовано: 8 июн 2024
- 00:00 Start
00:31 What is Promotion/Relegation?
03:16 Why no Pro/Rel in US?
06:16 Why US should have Pro/Rel
09:23 Affect on the US youth game
#youthsoccer #youthsoccercoach #prorel 
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Great video. You could do a part II. Aren't there other aspects that US soccer is missing? Like end-of-year and January transfer windows that are an effect of the no-relegation system. Also, the limit on the # of high-end player signings affects the total quality of the MLS. My question is, does the US have the "density" of soccer that you see in England (and other countries) since it's their premier sport to have the relegation system, or do we dilute our potential fan base among Am Football, B-Balls, & even Hockey? I'd love to see the relegation system here within 10 years!
Absolutely!
Excellent idea and excellent video. I think one obstacle is also the American sports mindset of having to have playoffs like American football. Which brings me to even ponder this. What if NCAA football did away with conferences and the CFP ranking system and had this system? I know it would be a logistics nightmare for some schools having to travel more, but think about how this would impact recruiting.
Yes 💯. More teams in the playoffs equals more money. By the regular season games mean less and less
I believe soccer also needs to be introduced into lower class neighborhoods. Many many athletes are found there. But for the lower class to be involved reg/pro needs to happen so parents don’t have to pay.
We’re pricing a lot of athletes out at younger and younger ages
@@CoachRorySoccer Agree, where i’m coming at, we’re a little brother club charging our big brother price, issue us our big brother is an hr away and they are the only team in the area meanwhile we have 5-6 clubs charging less around us. I only see 5 teams total practicing when last season it was 12+ teams. Saddening really
5-6 clubs around us.
It is a shame that only MLS academies are free. I have heard there is a lot of politics and favoritism in that process. Unless your kid is supremely talented he has no chance.
@cp_cundo paying $6000 a year for my U11 in Inter Milan academy. Good coaching and facilities but still costs an arm and a leg.
Gracias, Coach. They are trying to implement relegation/promotion in the youth levels in my small state / I would like to suggest an idea ("silly?"): establish clubs and teams around neighborhoods/elementary schools. That would lower the "investment amount", would help create community and a stronger club identity. Maybe parents would volunteer more often and avoid the driving to the "top teams" fields across town.
Creative thinking. You should be on USSF board.
USSF has no leverage. They missed an opportunity to enforce pro/rel in the women's game by giving a worthless D1 status to the USL-WSL. They should have forced them and NWSL into a pro/rel arrangement.
Amazing breakdown. We have the exact same problem in Australia. Thanks for sharing.
here in Argentina we have hundreds and hundreds of small and big futbol clubs.
I wonder if more popular sports in the US have many small clubs, like Basketball and American football
They use the college system mostly to develop their pros. Unfortunately youth games in both sports becoming more commercial/corporate like soccer
En Estados Unidos muchos chicos juegan mas de un deporte. ?Eso pasa en Argentina?
@@angelobenito-aguilar503 no creo
We have "Little League" teams for Baseball for young kids... "Pop Warner" for Football 🏈... when those kids get older, we have lots of Sports in High School. In Basketball we have "AAU" leagues that the best H.S. kids play in to develop. Then there's College Sports and also "Minor League" for Baseball, instead of College or after College. But none of our sports have ever needed Promotion-Relegation.
I’ve always found the franchise system where all profits are shared and ownership is not permitted to almost Communistic and very un-American! Relegation doesn’t necessarily mean disaster. My team was relegated two years ago and now we’re fighting for promotion and getting bigger crowds than when we were relegated from League One. A league without Promotion-Relegation is pointless and boring. Why would I and other fans bother going to games home and away if at the end of the season we came in the top three, but stayed where we were? MLS being a closed shop means it’ll never be taken seriously.
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It’s not at all unamerican. America has socialism for the rich and capitalism for everyone else. The entire point of the American sports system is to protect investors.
What I don’t understand with American soccer is why the style is so risk averse when there’s no relegation. Is that because America hates the idea of losing?
Coach, I've listened to the guys over at 3Four3 make the case for pro rel along with everyone else who follows soccer outside of MLS. I've never been in agreement that pro/rel is the silver bullet in the American soccer market that everyone thinks it will be. I leave you with a few questions, perhaps some might be good for a follow up video:
How will pro/rel impact a league like MLS that has a single entity league structure in a sporting market where soccer isn't in the top 3 of sports in the country? (i.e. what happens to a team once they get relegated? will it be a financial disaster causing clubs to dissolve?)
How do we account for the lack of parity across all of the major football leagues despite pro/rel?
Should USSF be responsible for establishing and clarifying player pathways?
Always appreciate your content, looking forward to the next video.
I used to downplay the importance of pro/rel but have grown to feel it is maybe not a silver bullet, but by far the biggest thing holding back our country.
MLS single entity structure may very well be prohibitive. If perhaps you gave people some kind of notice. Like say, we are going to pro/rel in 2034. Those investors with stock in clubs going down would lose value and those going up would gain value? I don't know. Honestly feel like a attorney specializing in corporations would know best. My understanding is its an LLC that owns the MLS franchises.
Pro/rel isn't supposed to lead to parity. The best are the best. Over the entire league schedule. So its not about a handful of playoff games its about the entire season. Its a different structure that I have learned to really enjoy.
USSF should be responsible for creating the environment of player pathways. But they have little interest in doing so.
Not an expert, but Academy cohorts that do not get picked up by the top tier club are a continuous source of professionally trained mid, or lower tier players.
Football academies are not only developing their talent for onward sales or club positions, they are providing the lower leagues with a constant stream of trained professional footballers.
💯 this is a great point.
Quality breakdown. But I don't see a solution anytime soon. Even in my tiny town, there are 3-4 club teams with different associations micro managing who they can and cannot play, who the best team is, and who the best players are. US soccer would need to come up with some drastic solutions and we as americans dont typically make decisions like that until our backs are against the wall. Never proactive, always reactive.
Totally agree. I think a possible first step is to implement pro/rel at the youth level. But the powers that be would likely not allow it.
Some of the US youth leagues your showed in the video actually have pro/rel. At least I know EDP does. @@CoachRorySoccer
@@Tundey which EDP leagues? In my region they don’t. Unfortunately the “highest” youth leagues are invite only (ECNL, MLSNext)
Not quite sure. But my son played on a pre-academy team for a couple of years and there was talk of relegation and promotion. We're in Maryland, so we play in the South Atlantic conference. @@CoachRorySoccer
Hey man, sometimes I feel insane with what I see from Americans on this subject. To hear someone who actually understands why pro/rel matters is such a rarity. Even most of the people who talk of pro/rel don't understand how most other problems stem from it.
Also in other countries they have the youth compensation payments. Everything is geared towards making there be value in developing or helping develop top players. In the US it's purely business, how many parents can you get to spend money.
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💯 agree on the lack of promotion/relegation. Good video as always! But one thing that curious to me and maybe there will be videos on this topic - how does the school/college system fits into soccer in US. It seems to me as a parent in US you have more choices. When it’s time to do college you don’t have to decide between education and sport for your kid, you can end up in good college, play soccer at a decent level and go pro after that. In Europe unfortunately you have to make a choice of either college education or sport, it’s rarely that you can do both. Curious to hear your thoughts coach Rory.
Good topic for a video likely. Unfortunately there aren’t a lot of pro options here in the states largely because of lack of pro rel. I personally think you should go to college to get an education. The sport shouldn’t really be a factor in that decision unless scholarships are involved. If you do play college soccer it’s still really unlikely you will go pro.
In the US, top flight players sometimes will skip college to go straight into a professional league depending on their abilities. Unfortunately, the US system doesn't always allow for the best talent to be found due to the pay-to-play model that's set up.
While it is true that players can get college scholarships to play soccer, there's a very minimal chance a talented player would be identified by a college if said player's family isn't already sinking thousands upon thousands dollars for them to play for clubs that participate in ECNL for example. Other countries fund team academies to identify players based on talent and not their parent's ability to pay.
Like you brought up though, players that don't make it through the academies to the senior team are put at a disadvantage when acclimating back into the "real world". I know recently that Trent Alexander-Arnold of Liverpool recognized this being a problem and started The After Academy to help people in positions like this. Hopefully that catches on and spreads because the need is definitely there.
@@kyleblessing8820 great points!
@@CoachRorySoccer I guess maybe my confusion comes when looking at the women’s soccer mostly. If I look up any player on USWNT roster all of them went and played for a college team and are pro soccer players today. But maybe the men’s ecosystem is different here.
In the European soccer world, if you’re not good enough at 16-17 years old you will probably never become successful in soccer (it is a too technical sport requiring years of training). Most of the players had their first pro game at 16-19 years old. That’s why they don’t go to college (but having finished their high school). A 22-24 years old player has to be fully developed to be competitive in Europe.
A 23 years old player developed under the US college system will be not enough competitive compared to a player having the same age but who played professional since is 17 in a good league in Europe.
We cannot use the US women college system as a fair exemple because most of the foreign countries USWNT faced did not have professional women soccer league (notably European countries, e.g. the French women soccer league will become fully professional next year). Now, the other countries are organizing/professionalizing their women soccer leagues such as the men system (with promotion/relegation) and the gap between USWNT and other teams is decreasing. To stay competitive, the US will have to draft their young player earlier than 23-24 years old.
Ironically though pro rel while it doesn’t apply to higher youth letter leagues does apply to some lower and younger level club leagues. It’s the worst place to apply pro rel when the rest of the system doesn’t have it. It encourages short term thinking from the coaches: boot the ball up, pick tall fast kids closest to the age line, play your goalkicks long, yell at the kids and joystick to get performance.
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Coach, my 10 year old is improving a lot with his weak foot. He can make short passes, dribble, shoot with laces but he can't send a high cross with his weak foot. Can't gain height and they just go flat. Any drills/ video you recommend.
Foot skills. Don’t worry about the rest he will grow stronger on his weak foot.
I think you slightly misunderstand how soccer works in Europe. Professional teams’ academies are a tiny proportion of grassroots soccer. Most kids play for their local club with their parents paying subscription fees. There’s no “end” except your kid having fun and improving. The bigger issue is the scale of fees which I understand are much higher on the US. How many talented kids are priced out of top teams? To what extent do coaches allow kids to just make mistakes? It’s different when the financial stakes are higher.
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Great content would love to talk
Introducing pro/rel is going to have to be forced on MLS to keep its 1st division status by USSF if it’s ever going to happen. The “owners” have paid too big of a franchise fee for that to ever be an option organically. USL-C and its lower leagues could start pro/rel and allow it to grow. I could certainly see a future where once MLS stabilizes with say 36-40 teams it could slowly split into 2 divisions. Say it’s a cumulative 5 year points race, could even give bonus points for MLS cup wins. Top 18 stay up, bottom 6 go down and the middle 16 play a 2-8 team pro/rel tournaments with winner staying up. Then you allow those to move up and down for 2-3 years before adding in USL-C. It’s a long process but with the money involved I don’t see it being a quick change.
Something like this would also make USOC better, allow for balanced league schedules. You could even have top 8 in division 1 play an end of season tourney that we Americans love so much. Lower divisions could do end of season tournaments with semi-finalist achieving promotion and best record quarterfinalist playing 18th place from upper division in a pro/rel match. Not that I’ve given the topic much thought
This is what creative thinking looks like. Too bad you’re not on USSF BODs!
You have to be understanding of the “investor/owner” position as they have put in lots of money. So you have allow these investments to vest…but you can do that and set up a multi year conversion that will it to have an American flavor.
As much as I'd like to see it, I doubt we'll ever get a full open pyramid, due to the nature of American sports and the hundreds of millions of dollars owners have pushed into MLS. I do, however, see an opportunity for MLS to create a "fake" version of pro rel. The league can't expand forever. They could soon cap it at 36 to 40 teams. Now that they have the apple tv deal, they could create a sort of MLS and MLS 2 division, as well as possibly include independent teams from MLS Next Pro. The apple deal would allow MLS and MLS 2 to share equal television revenue, and maintain competitive wages for players and staff. This would help attract players to either division, rsther than them flocking to the top flight, where they suspect they would make significantly more money. To the naked eye, the two divisions would seem identical, as opposed to the drop off in quality we're used to seeing between divisions. To provide incentive to actually strive to be in the top division, only allow champions cup, and leagues cup qualifying spots to the top division, as well as increased prize money for winning the division and open cup. So if you have absent owners with little desire to improve or spend, the hit on their investment is marginal. Even if they may be a 2nd division team, they're still Sharing in revenue and getting television time. In other words, the only way MLS does pro rel is if it finds a way to protect the investment of those whom already bought into the league.
@@jaredhartwell8002 I agree with this. Very spot on and a potential solution
@@jaredhartwell8002 I think it’s also because footie in the US is still relatively young. It’s taken 150 years for the English leagues to be where they are with 92 league clubs plus another 24 in the semi-pro National League. My team were relegated two seasons ago and are now fighting to get promoted back to League One. We’re getting bigger crowds now than when we were relegated from the league above, but we’ve been around for 130 years. So we’re well established with a good fan base. I don’t know how well US teams would fare if they were relegated. Would they still get the supporters going to games?
Seems like a very massive political obstacle to overcome given the initial and now entrenched design. Can you think of a key way of motivating the leagues to change?
Political pressure and/or financial incentives are only ways I could think of. USSF/MLS have little reason to change the current structure. Its about power and control. They (IMO) would make more money if the system was pro/rel.
@@CoachRorySoccerPolitical pressure, meaning long meetings with various consortiums over time, to convince owners that they would make more money in the long run to move to the pro/rel move - sounds great! Who knows what's possible.....? Maybe even the players have to make their voice heard....
Maybe if I wear my new long sleeve CRS T Shirt around town, that will exert my own form of political pressure. I wish it said PRO/REL on the back!
@@MikeBaasnew design idea!!
@@MikeBaaswill take a village.
Coach Rory the US doesn't need promotion relegation. It needs a real youth academy program like La Masia in Barcelona and River Plate academy in Argentina or anywhere else.
Actually TV revenue sharing is the best and more fair way to split the pot . The other top countries' clubs take way more money, that they should and that's why Barcelona and Real Madrid can afford galacticos teams and other irregular BS. Like PSG, Man City, Girona. Etc etc.
Youth pay to play is out of control.
Inner city poor kids should have a fair shot to making the MLS team academy of their age group and if they are good enough all expenses to play and go to school are covered.
Every year academys have open free tryouts. Scouts find this players around the country/world.
They keep 22 kids per birth year. You can lose your spot every given year if a better kid makes it. Merit only.
That doesn't change pay to play youth and USL and any other league.
The biggest issue is kids not playing because they can't afford it.
Couldn’t disagree more. Pro/rel is what makes up the ecosystem of foreign countries. It’s drives everything. I used to down play it’s importance. Have to realize it’s the key to everything.
@@CoachRorySoccer none of the other American sports have promotion/ relegation. The country is good at running pro leagues. Is actually the best system. Salary cap, draft. everyone gets equal share of the TV revenue, brand jersey. That's the 2 biggest ticket items.
The youth is run poorly. Soccer nations all have a great academy system. That's how Messi plays at 16 in Barcelona. Maradona plays D1 in Argentina at 15/16. Pele plays his first world cup before 18.
Then you have to be realistic about expectations the US will never have the best league because the best American players have to go to Europe to get better. same in Argentina, Brasil and Uruguay.
The English premier league is good but only produced 1 world cup for England. And Real Madrid has more European Championships that all the EPL teams combined.
It's a pyramid like any other sport . You want to win and be the best, start with youth , world cup U 15 , U 17, Gold Medal at the Olympics and the world Cup.
Man City bought the best U17 player from River Plate El diablito Etcheverri.
He is loaned at River Plate to mature and play copa libertadores. But he is already at Man City payroll.
@@miguelberthet6723 ok….Agree to disagree. Cheers.
The draft system is the most un-American system there is. Pro/Rel is the most meritocratic. We NEED Pro/Rel to be competitive on the world stage.
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Promo>SM
MLS will never adopt pro/rel willingly. They'll never go from a closed system to an open one. The only hope is for another league to emerge with pro/rel (USL?) and for fans, media and eventually sponsors to move their support to that league in enough numbers to, force MLS to the table. However, as fans we have to avoid accepting an MLS offer for a closed pro/rel within the MLS. MLS is not a real sports league. It is a curated sporting experience. Nothing more.
I don't think it makes sense to have pro/rel in a league that's taxpayer-supported like US sports. I don't know if it really makes sense in England either tbh. Imagine paying taxes to support the local stadium and then having the team fall down to D2 lol. I think it makes more sense for genuine "clubs", not businesses owned by billionaires.
Also lower divisions in the US already struggle with finding opponents close enough that they aren't killed by travel costs, moving teams up and down sounds like a recipe for disaster. We don't have the density of teams that Europe does.
the club's journey back to the 1st division would keep people interested
@@Doomclownthe club's journey back to the 1st division would keep people interested
@@khalilshahyd9063 If they do go back, otherwise it's just yet another public burden.
@@Doomclownthen another team will take the stadium. You're a solution looking for a problem
We just have bad coaching in the U.S.
What hurts soccer in the u s most is way simpler. The best athletes that are men don’t play soccer. A larger percentage of good women athletes do here in the us. So we succeed. We would do the same if our best men’s athletes plaid soccer in stead of other sports.
We have plenty of good athletes. That’s not the issue.
@@CoachRorySoccerwhat your nuts. Go to any large community or college. Look at the best athletes. They all play other sports. Look at the newish prototype European pro player Look at their build. Those type of physical traits here in the USA play football and basketball. Because of this our pool is tiny.
No. This is wrong. There are so many incredible athletes playing soccer. Not the issue at all. Not even a little bit of an issue.
What we need is a change of culture. Our most athletic men need to choose soccer instead of a sport that will pay them more if they become professionals. That will only happen when the MLS starts generating more revenue, which will not happen until they become more competitive, which will not happen until they implement a Promotion/Relegation system.
If the desired outcome is a D1 college scholarship then you pursuing an unrealistic expectation if your child is a male. Female scholarships abound so this doesn’t really apply to them but there are ZERO available to US men. Statistically speaking, ALL D1 men’s soccer scholarships go to foreigners so using the Middle/High/University school model will not work.
IMO if we made two changes to our current model, soccer in America will explode.
1. Institute a Promotion/Relegation system at the professional level
2. Demand that no taxpayer funded Division 1 College scholarships go to foreigners.
@@SilverDollar6 I agree with everything except "our most athletic men need to choose soccer" because athleticism is not what separates Europe and South America from the US in terms of their ability to play the game.