My brother in Christ, I came here thinking I was going to find an argument for infant baptism when in reality God sent me here to overcome my own anxiety of baptism. Similar to you I come from a reformed Baptist background and as my wife and I get closer to having children I have been diving into baptism specifically. Throughout this process I have also gained anxiety over my own baptism. I was 15 when I was baptized and back slide in my behavior and really was in unrepentant sin well into my early 20s struggling with lust. And this has really bothered me. This video has been of great comfort to me. Baptism is not my profession of faith, but God sealing his promises to me.
I am in a similar situation! Lived with anxiety over if my baptism was 'valid' since I had no fruit of repentance for years... amyway, We recently decided to baptize our firstborn baby boy, and I am so happy about it
I think that your point with regard to an overall paradigm shift is extremely important. Too often we tend to argue the issue of baptism as an isolated doctrine via proof-texting. For me my acceptance of covenant baptism came as a quite natural result of my new understanding of God's dealings with His covenant people. Yes God deals with us as individuals but He also deals with us in the context of families, clans, communities, and nations.
My husband and I journeyed from the Assenblies of God to Methodist and now to Anglicanism. He has been pastor/priest in all of those faith communities. We’ve gained appreciation and insights with all the groups but have felt like we are home in our Anglo-Catholic setting.
The position of credo baptism may seem very strong if we don't understand covenants properly. But the bible very clearly teaches infant baptism because of the never ending Abrahamic covenant.
I read every Baptism verse. As for Baptism preformed by John the Baptist it ended after Jesus died and was rose again. Christian Baptism is what the Apostles did. Everyone that was baptized was a believer before they were baptized and they were not infants.
@@Johnkoth "I read every Baptism verse" - why did you read only a small selection of baptism verses out of context, instead of the entire scripture of God's covenantal dealings with his people? You can believe anything if you narrow the scope enough.
While I do not concur, I very much appreciate your discussion on this and especially your pointing out how peer associations and backgrounds influence our theology... something to be aware of to be sure. Very much appreciate your thoughts on the issue :)
Thank you for this video. Could you possibly make another one going into more detail about the paradigm shifts that you talked about in the first half of the video? Also, on those subjects, are there any resources that you’d recommend? I myself grew up in a very charismatic church context and then in my early adulthood discovered reformed theology. I still currently hold to a reformed Baptist conviction, but I find myself arguing with my Baptist friends on the subject of baptism due to becoming more pursued of infant baptism over the last year or so. It’s still hard for me to commit fully or to say “this is my conviction”. Thank you again for these videos.
Excellent treatment of this vital topic. I believe that the revival of true Christianity will entail a widespread adoption of this kind of pedobaptism.
thank you for this thoughtful exploration. the adoption of the infant accepted as a member of the family,long before the child realizes it is in a family, was something i'd not really considered even thoughthe NT is all about our adoption into His family
Baptism points to the work of our Lord Jesus Christ and is a sign of Christ's blessings and Promises and this ordinance is for believers and their Children (Acts2:39) which is a sign of Gods Holy covenant people and then we have circumcision of the heart which is eternal life(Ezekiel36:25-27). We need to understand that the outward signs , Baptism or phyical circumcision is not eternal life. It's a outward sign of what is to happen inwardly (jeremiah 4:4).
You basically described all that I am considering in my life as a baptist right now. Maybe one other factor that is pushing me towards this change of mind is my own children, I've got three little ones. And being a reformed calvinist, I see a lot of inconsistencies in the way we baptists handle our childrens education and church life. I don't see a basis in which we should work with them if they are totally depraved, which they are. And so, the covenant... Does that make sense?
Households in the bible wasnt just parents and children. Also what about all those that are afar off? What about grandchildren Nowhere is the it found tgat children of "believing parents" aee to be baptised. The abrahamic seal of the covenant was circumsision, given to boys, and has nothing to do with being buried with Christ. The permission for baptism is "if thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest" acts 8,37. I pray for my children, i bring them to Christ, but baptism is for the time they come to me and say "i believe, i trust in Christ" and i will say"with your whole heart? Then you may".
God works with individuals. Ezekiel 18 & 33 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. (...) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. "Who hath ears to hear, let him hear." - JESUS
an infant can be baptized as long as they have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ and they express that they want to obey him in that way. Acts 8:35-37 King James Version 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. end of story Parents can't make any decisions for a child when it comes to their relationship with God. you can't argue that from scripture
If I may, I'd like to put to you some reasons why I disagree with infant baptism. 1. There is a lack of clear biblical exegesis in your argument. I believe this is simply because there is scant scriptural warrant for baptising babies. 2. There is, I believe, a strong correlation between churches that have strong links to ‘the state’ and infant baptism. So, if a country has been traditionally defined as ‘Christian’ and there is a 'state church', there is a strong incentive from government to ‘Christianise’ the population. So infant baptism, rather than preaching the gospel becomes a way of doing this. In much of Europe, nominal, cultural Christianity has become the norm partly because people have been deceived into thinking they are true Christians by virtue of their baptism as babies. Outside of Europe and the Catholic and Orthodox churches, where church and state are kept separate, believers are more inclined to practice believers’ baptism. 3. The fierce persecution of churches that practise believers’ baptism by state sanctioned churches (Catholic and reformed), and never (to my knowledge) the other way point to (but does not prove, of course) the fact that the Baptists are in the right. 4. The experience of my wife and myself. Both of us decided to get baptised as believers even though we have been Christened as infants. In both cases, we had opposition from our families who had, in our view, been deceived into thinking we were all Christians despite there being no strong commitment to Christ in either of our families. Also, we both felt that many are cheated of the joy of marking our new-found faith through baptism by getting baptised long before they were aware of it. Infant baptism, from our experiences, feeds nominal, cultural Christianity rather than radical, Christ-centred discipleship. 5. I believe you carry the argument of families and communities coming to Christ as a group too far. There is a strong strand of New Testament teaching that suggests the gospel will divide families rather than facilitate families coming to faith together. I could cite lots of scriptures here, but let’s begin with Matthew 10:34-36, Luke 14:25-26.
To be fair, there's scant scriptural warrant for *rejecting* infant baptism, too. As was alluded to in the video, there isn't explicit instruction one way or the other, so either position has to be arrived at based on biblical *principles* and what seems to be the logical result.
Jay McMurdo in regards to the state-church comments. I would pay back and say that the Southeast United States has a de facto state church(the southern baptist convention) which controls a lot of political power in the region. And they(southern) upheld slavery, Jim Crow, and other segregation laws. By your own logic, credobaptism is false because of the bad actions of Baptist’s.
Most of these reason are really bad if I’m being honest. If you want to lay out an argument against infant baptism, you can’t let your bias and personal experience be a part of that. A Baptist who converts to Roman Catholic could cite a bunch of personal experience like you did. You need to use scripture and logic to deduce the best interpretation and frankly you failed at that.
Someone stated that the first ten minutes are purely personal/subjective. The whole 28 minutes strikes me that way. It's an emotional discourse on why he changed his whole train of thought on biblical soteriology. He doesn't like liberal "detached" individualism, but doesn't even question whether there might be a biblical "attached" individualism. As a result, he creates something similar to an OT physical collectivism and a downplaying of faith. I think what he wants is a more sacramental, incarnational understanding of baptism than is often practiced in Baptist circles, including the Reformed variety. It shouldn't be seen as merely humanistic, as merely testimonial. He's right to react. His reaction is misguided.
@@MissingTrails. Incarnationally attached to the family. Not a “flotsam and jetsam” individual, unattached to the family. Not just an individual’s faith. But faith within the bounds of family, the covenant of faith. I think that is a beautiful picture. But waiting until the children come to faith, until they join into that circle, that covenant on their own…only enhances the beauty.
You are very self-aware. Thank you for your honesty, brother.
My brother in Christ, I came here thinking I was going to find an argument for infant baptism when in reality God sent me here to overcome my own anxiety of baptism.
Similar to you I come from a reformed Baptist background and as my wife and I get closer to having children I have been diving into baptism specifically.
Throughout this process I have also gained anxiety over my own baptism. I was 15 when I was baptized and back slide in my behavior and really was in unrepentant sin well into my early 20s struggling with lust. And this has really bothered me.
This video has been of great comfort to me. Baptism is not my profession of faith, but God sealing his promises to me.
I am in a similar situation! Lived with anxiety over if my baptism was 'valid' since I had no fruit of repentance for years... amyway, We recently decided to baptize our firstborn baby boy, and I am so happy about it
I think that your point with regard to an overall paradigm shift is extremely important. Too often we tend to argue the issue of baptism as an isolated doctrine via proof-texting. For me my acceptance of covenant baptism came as a quite natural result of my new understanding of God's dealings with His covenant people. Yes God deals with us as individuals but He also deals with us in the context of families, clans, communities, and nations.
Very holistic, honest, delightful and clear. God bless you Dr. Roberts!
My husband and I journeyed from the Assenblies of God to Methodist and now to Anglicanism. He has been pastor/priest in all of those faith communities. We’ve gained appreciation and insights with all the groups but have felt like we are home in our Anglo-Catholic setting.
The position of credo baptism may seem very strong if we don't understand covenants properly. But the bible very clearly teaches infant baptism because of the never ending Abrahamic covenant.
Amen!
Thats not true
I read every Baptism verse.
As for Baptism preformed by John the Baptist it ended after Jesus died and was rose again.
Christian Baptism is what the Apostles did.
Everyone that was baptized was a believer before they were baptized and they were not infants.
@@Johnkoth none of them already in the covenant.
@@Johnkoth "I read every Baptism verse" - why did you read only a small selection of baptism verses out of context, instead of the entire scripture of God's covenantal dealings with his people? You can believe anything if you narrow the scope enough.
While I do not concur, I very much appreciate your discussion on this and especially your pointing out how peer associations and backgrounds influence our theology... something to be aware of to be sure. Very much appreciate your thoughts on the issue :)
Thank you for this video.
Could you possibly make another one going into more detail about the paradigm shifts that you talked about in the first half of the video? Also, on those subjects, are there any resources that you’d recommend?
I myself grew up in a very charismatic church context and then in my early adulthood discovered reformed theology. I still currently hold to a reformed Baptist conviction, but I find myself arguing with my Baptist friends on the subject of baptism due to becoming more pursued of infant baptism over the last year or so. It’s still hard for me to commit fully or to say “this is my conviction”.
Thank you again for these videos.
Extremely helpful, thank you Dr. Roberts
This topic is what shifted me from baptist to Presbyterian, brother I really appreciate everything you said, truly.
Excellent treatment of this vital topic. I believe that the revival of true Christianity will entail a widespread adoption of this kind of pedobaptism.
thank you for this thoughtful exploration. the adoption of the infant accepted as a member of the family,long before the child realizes it is in a family, was something i'd not really considered even thoughthe NT is all about our adoption into His family
His family IS the Church and baptism is into the Church and Christ. IMHO
I came all the way from Dispensationalism to Presbyterian within the span of a year and a half 😅
thank you for all your videos
Thank you!
Baptism points to the work of our Lord Jesus Christ and is a sign of Christ's blessings and Promises and this ordinance is for believers and their Children (Acts2:39) which is a sign of Gods Holy covenant people and then we have circumcision of the heart which is eternal life(Ezekiel36:25-27).
We need to understand that the outward signs , Baptism or phyical circumcision is not eternal life.
It's a outward sign of what is to happen inwardly (jeremiah 4:4).
You basically described all that I am considering in my life as a baptist right now. Maybe one other factor that is pushing me towards this change of mind is my own children, I've got three little ones. And being a reformed calvinist, I see a lot of inconsistencies in the way we baptists handle our childrens education and church life. I don't see a basis in which we should work with them if they are totally depraved, which they are. And so, the covenant... Does that make sense?
Andrey Consalter yep. The reformed and other paedobaptists argue along with this reason too
Thank you
Excellent again!
Households in the bible wasnt just parents and children. Also what about all those that are afar off? What about grandchildren
Nowhere is the it found tgat children of "believing parents" aee to be baptised. The abrahamic seal of the covenant was circumsision, given to boys, and has nothing to do with being buried with Christ. The permission for baptism is "if thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest" acts 8,37. I pray for my children, i bring them to Christ, but baptism is for the time they come to me and say "i believe, i trust in Christ" and i will say"with your whole heart? Then you may".
God works with individuals.
Ezekiel 18 & 33
The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. (...)
The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
"Who hath ears to hear, let him hear."
- JESUS
an infant can be baptized as long as they have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ and they express that they want to obey him in that way.
Acts 8:35-37
King James Version
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
end of story
Parents can't make any decisions for a child when it comes to their relationship with God. you can't argue that from scripture
If I may, I'd like to put to you some reasons why I disagree with infant baptism.
1. There is a lack of clear biblical exegesis in your argument. I believe this is simply because there is scant scriptural warrant for baptising babies.
2. There is, I believe, a strong correlation between churches that have strong links to ‘the state’ and infant baptism. So, if a country has been traditionally defined as ‘Christian’ and there is a 'state church', there is a strong incentive from government to ‘Christianise’ the population. So infant baptism, rather than preaching the gospel becomes a way of doing this. In much of Europe, nominal, cultural Christianity has become the norm partly because people have been deceived into thinking they are true Christians by virtue of their baptism as babies. Outside of Europe and the Catholic and Orthodox churches, where church and state are kept separate, believers are more inclined to practice believers’ baptism.
3. The fierce persecution of churches that practise believers’ baptism by state sanctioned churches (Catholic and reformed), and never (to my knowledge) the other way point to (but does not prove, of course) the fact that the Baptists are in the right.
4. The experience of my wife and myself. Both of us decided to get baptised as believers even though we have been Christened as infants. In both cases, we had opposition from our families who had, in our view, been deceived into thinking we were all Christians despite there being no strong commitment to Christ in either of our families. Also, we both felt that many are cheated of the joy of marking our new-found faith through baptism by getting baptised long before they were aware of it. Infant baptism, from our experiences, feeds nominal, cultural Christianity rather than radical, Christ-centred discipleship.
5. I believe you carry the argument of families and communities coming to Christ as a group too far. There is a strong strand of New Testament teaching that suggests the gospel will divide families rather than facilitate families coming to faith together. I could cite lots of scriptures here, but let’s begin with Matthew 10:34-36, Luke 14:25-26.
To be fair, there's scant scriptural warrant for *rejecting* infant baptism, too. As was alluded to in the video, there isn't explicit instruction one way or the other, so either position has to be arrived at based on biblical *principles* and what seems to be the logical result.
Jay McMurdo in regards to the state-church comments. I would pay back and say that the Southeast United States has a de facto state church(the southern baptist convention) which controls a lot of political power in the region. And they(southern) upheld slavery, Jim Crow, and other segregation laws. By your own logic, credobaptism is false because of the bad actions of Baptist’s.
Most of these reason are really bad if I’m being honest. If you want to lay out an argument against infant baptism, you can’t let your bias and personal experience be a part of that. A Baptist who converts to Roman Catholic could cite a bunch of personal experience like you did. You need to use scripture and logic to deduce the best interpretation and frankly you failed at that.
I looked up everu baptism verse and not 1 verse supports infant baptism.
Infant Baptism is a Catholic Tradition.
j k credobaotism is a upgraded donatist Heresy
Someone stated that the first ten minutes are purely personal/subjective. The whole 28 minutes strikes me that way. It's an emotional discourse on why he changed his whole train of thought on biblical soteriology.
He doesn't like liberal "detached" individualism, but doesn't even question whether there might be a biblical "attached" individualism. As a result, he creates something similar to an OT physical collectivism and a downplaying of faith.
I think what he wants is a more sacramental, incarnational understanding of baptism than is often practiced in Baptist circles, including the Reformed variety. It shouldn't be seen as merely humanistic, as merely testimonial.
He's right to react. His reaction is misguided.
Attached to what?
@@MissingTrails. Incarnationally attached to the family. Not a “flotsam and jetsam” individual, unattached to the family. Not just an individual’s faith. But faith within the bounds of family, the covenant of faith.
I think that is a beautiful picture. But waiting until the children come to faith, until they join into that circle, that covenant on their own…only enhances the beauty.