I have 2007 Corolla with a 1zz-fe 1.8 4 cylinder, I was changing the timing chain and the VVT moved back and forth. I removed it from the cam and it rattled inside. Took it apart and one of the leaves(?) of the rotor had broken completely OFF! That was the rattling sound the engine made when started. Changed the VVT gear and no more noise!
The pin has two functions. To locate the cam during start up and as a safety feature if there's an internal oil seal leak. When this occurs the pin will lock in and the ECU will recognize that the cams aren't adjusting at various engine rpm and load points. On each VVT unit there will be 4 sensor points that are spaced uniquely to allow the ecu to know what degrees the cams are set at.
hey, i have the 2015 camry with 2AR 4cyl. I have code P0015 and P0017 with no rattle at startup but rattle when feathering throttle at other speeds. Also get occassional flash of low oil pressure (not sure if sender problem or really oil pressure prob). do you know if there may be oiling issue or just one of the phazers is failing. Sounds like you may be able to help me diagnose or what to check. thanks
P0017 is a cam crank correlation code. It means your timing is off. P0015 is exhaust cam over retarded. Highly probably a failing vvt but it could be related to failure of related timing components.
My 2007 IS350 was making the same sound from a cold start. Finally after months I just took it in and it was vvti gears worn. My warranty had expired but the dealership still did everything for free since I had brought the problem up to them in the past and they had it recorded in their system. This time they were able to figure out what it was. They replaced all sorts gaskets, cylinder heads, camshafts, and more. Probably would have costed me tons of money but thankfully I got taken care of.
The pin locks everything in place. When VVT system needs to change timing, oil is diverted to the pin, pushing it open against the spring, and allowing the gears to move. When oil pressure decreases, the gear locks back into place.
@@somethingelsehere8089On the Honda actuators the pin is the cause of the rattle, caused by the spring becoming weak and shortened. I don't think the purpose of the pin is to prevent the rattle, it's job is to locate the timing back to 0 degrees. As oil pressure decreases the spring then acts upon the pin and the pin then locates itself into it's detent. Having no oil pressure there at startup is what allows the pin to stay locked and not rattle.
I remember taking apart a 2jz vvt-i cam sprocket and was a very different design. Just shows how Toyota has come up with a new way to do the same job more efficiently. Granted it is not as aggressive as a V-tec system which has a different cam shaft profile when commanded but this is how Toyota gives you the performance timing when it is commanded by the ecu when a certain rev is matched.
VVT-i is turned on at set points that use throttle angle and engine rpm as input signals. The engine ecu has a map and when the inputs are good it turns on an "oil control valve" that sends oil pressure to the vvt-i gear to turn it on
hey, i have the 2015 camry with 2AR 4cyl. I have code P0015 and P0017 with no rattle at startup but rattle when feathering throttle at other speeds. Also get occassional flash of low oil pressure (not sure if sender problem or really oil pressure prob). do you know if there may be oiling issue or just one of the phazers is failing. Sounds like you may be able to help me diagnose or what to check. thanks
Those orange blocks are seals just as you would have rings in pistons, to seal pressure from leaking, except these are vertical seals and the spring ensures that the seals maintain a tight seal against moving parts.
The "Orange Blocks" are oil seals. The mechanism works via engine oil pressure, in a push-push arrangement. The ECU determines the position by varying pulse widths to the variable timing control solenoid. A square wave (equal + and - time intervals) holds current timing. Narrowing or widening the pulse varies the timing. The pin is to lock the timing until oil pressure has been established. Exhaust timing is fixed.
they also use the exact same setting on exhaust camshafts for variable exhaust timing. Newer designs don't use a side oil solenoid but rather a head mounted PWM push solenoid in the center of VVT Gear. These timing systems are built to wear out (piston/pin) and pop codes because the ECU has the timing on a close watch. 👍🏻
I bet that is the rattle you hear in the gear on cold start up, that spring has lost tension and is not locking the gear like its suppose to and the gear rattles back and forth on that pin with the weak spring. Honda has the same design, on Honda I stretch that spring if it has cold start rattle and reinstall it then the the cold start rattle goes away, I bet its the same on this cam gear.
The pin is a hydraulic piston that stops the cam from changing timing when theres no oil pressure. Its so that the cars timing is locked at startup and any time that the cam isn't under computer control. BTW The computer uses the lugs on the camshaft to continuously time the cam using a solenoid on the block.
Is that what causes the characteristic knocking sound on VVT-i engines when you restart the engine while warm after letting it sit for 5 minutes? i.e. when the oil thickens and takes like 10 seconds for it to circulate before it activates again?
OK am building a 1AZ noticed that thing is not really holding in place is knocking through out how can I fix that and what kind of damage can occur if I ignore it to move the vehicle to another garage? would this mean am not getting enough pressure.. The oil pump is new. Just remembered I had bought a new cam shaft. Can get this old bit and put on the one on the engine?
The vct solinoid has one input oil feed and two output, the two output one for retarding timing and one for advancing. As rpms rise the phaser will advance. It keeps the engine in optimal timming. Hence spark firing early btdc
If you're working on this stuff then yeah having a set of bits is definitely a good thing. I find vice grips do the trick nicely haha. Thanks for the feedback!
If you start the car there's no oil pressure and that pin prevents the VVT from getting hammered to death. Oil pressure builds up and hold the pin in against the spring until you shut the car off.
The tap,ered pin is a check valve that is kept in its hole by the spring on top of it.as the RPM goes up , so the oil pressure, which will unseat the pin , hence the rotor will move to advance the timing based on the conditions. When the engine rpm decreases , so the oil pressure, and the pin goes back to its seat. Thanks
The pin is spring loaded to hold the gear in place once you reach a certain rpm or speed the oil pressure will push the pin up allowing the gear to rotate vtec vvl-i cvt ect are all designed to give a boost in power on the hi end for passing or fun the pin keeps thing from moving till needed to preserve fuel economy
That has 5 star tamper security screws because it is a critical part of the engine that can mess up the car really good if you put it back wrong without the proper way to do it. There is a reason for that part being protected. i have mine from an engine which head I am rectifying and this engine was run without oil to the point it failed with oil all burnt inside it. I wonder if inside the VVT-i gears there is still oil burnt that would impede its functioning right; it was washed at the machine shop off the oil externally but wondering if inside needs to be cleaned as well; but i am told by many mechanics to leave it alone and not to take it apart as it may mess up the car later on.
I have a Honda with an almost identical actuator in design and operation. I have been inside of mine 5-6 times to dabble with the spring and locking pin in attempts to stop the rattle. As long as that's as far as you go, and you make sure that nothing is forgotten and tighten the bolts to a torque value between 8 and 10 ft/lbs there are no issues.
VVT-I does not have lift like VTEC ,only VVTL-I does..The pin locks the gear in place ,until the VVT-I solenoid allows oil to flow into the gear and then the pin moves and allows the gear to be free to move and change timing and the intake and exhaust valves over lap each other at times to optimize fuel efficiency and lower emissions.. FyI: VTEC uses different cam lobes with larger and longer duration to create lift,VVTL-I uses a pin that is moved by oil to increase duration and create more lift..
very interesting!! so, does that mean that honda is better and more trouble free than toyota engines? cuz right now i am having issues with a 2.5 liter knockin sound at start up?? please help me!!!
Not really memo. Honda is using similar system now. They still have vtec but they also have a vvt for some more low rpm tourqe and better fuel efficiency
Let's say VVT is for intake only and exhaust has a conventional sprocket. VVT sprocket has a range of movement, like you show - up to 4 teeth, exhaust sprocket is fixed. Where does the chain slack to allow for this movement come from, are VVT engine chains inherently loose to allow for this movement? EDIT: I might have figured it out watching T0G5KLN4a_w. The sprocket doesn't move in relation to other sprockets, what moves is the camshaft itself in relation to VVT sprocket, thus no chain slack is needed, duh.
Its a adjustable cam gear, like some after markets are sold from HKS etc. This concept is old. Check the 5SFE and the 3SFE engines, but these engines, the gear is exposed and the gear is divided in two and it only moving one part of the gear, while the other one depends (exhaust) depends on the other one for advancing or retarding the timing. These, VVT-i, are more efficient with more timing advancing or retarding timing.
just for history due there is no tool for loose bolts as you already know :) you "bite" the head of the bolt with the vice and you turn the cam.the bolts r loose easily without drilling.the pin is securing the cam to a certain position under 4000 rpms or when there is no oilpressure (for morning start up or for 2much worn out spoket.there is no use for trying to fix the vvti part,some the plate is worn from the spring and you cannot out it in another hole,the bolts r off centered!great video man
the vvt gear also when pin pops out keep exhuast valve open longer at higher rpm to prevent head gasket from blowing why these motors are bullet proof only way to destroy a toyota is to throw a rod through the piston no oil no collant
The mechanism looks very simple and pretty much self explanatory. The pin and the opening for it look good. I wonder why the pin fails to lock? Perhaps the spring breaks or something gets stuck in the pin cavity thus restricting or preventing it's movement. My wifes 04 Camry (2.4L) has been making this noise for over 100,000 miles. It has 190k on the odometer now. So far it has not caused any issues.
thats the reason for the spring loaded pin it is to control how much adjustment you can get en there is a oil pressure from below that pushes that pin up as you know oil pressure raises with the rews
The pin only locks for cold start. When the engine starts and the O/P comes up it unlocks. It will stay unlocked until you shut the car off. Often the pins get sticky and no longer lock and you get the famous "rattle" until the O/P comes up. I've had 2 Toyotas that have had the rattle for over 150k and it has never been a problem. People just hate the racket at startup , but it really doesn't hurt a thing. My Camry has 220 k and is still going strong rattle and all. Here's a great video about this ruclips.net/video/gwJ5BBHb9W4/видео.html
Allow me to comment your video: - If both camshafts has a cam gear, than we call it a 'dual VVT-i'. It means it adjust the valve timing of the intake and exhaust valves. 'VVT-i' only adjust valve timing of the intake. - actually it's the innerside of the cam gear that moves. That innerside (star shape) is fixed to the camshaft. Just saying so nobody misses. It's just because it's clamped between the bench.
Vvt gear needs to unlocked before taking off cam,( try dissembling the vvt like he did ONLY IF REPLACING WITH NEW ONE then take off cam bolt)if you don't it will grip the guide pin on the back of the gear making it very difficult to take off, do your search very carefully it took me hours of research online on how to approach this. When you install back the vvt gear needs to be unlocked( look at the dots on the housing) and make sure it seats nicely in the right grove, torque to specs and the turn clockwise on the vvt gear housing then you hear a click and to make sure you locked the vvt look at the dots they have to line up together if is not its still unlock. ( Toyotas of this design are prone for 1 second start up rattle and that lock pin is the culprit)
G R i have been reading and watching about “having to be unlocked when assembling”. I am not following why. I have been messing with one this afternoon and can get it to unlock and move but as soon as you let go the spring moves it back to the locked position. So what is the purpose of having to unlock it prior to assembly if the spring is going to just move it back to the locked position as soon as you let air pressure off? Thanks for any reply.
hey thanks for your comment it really helps, i have a 2gr-fe v6 engine i am working on, i change the head gasket and set the timing properly but when i run the engine and scan i got the (crankshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B) code ( P0017 ), i had to pull the engine again, i turned the crankshaft clockwise 360 over and over again the timing setting was correct, then i turned the Exhaust camshaft with a wrench spanner and noticed it was loose and not locked in place while the others are perfectly locked. kindly bail me out on what to do, should i turning it till i hear the click sound without removing the timing chain? am not sure what to do help me out.
can these fail and cause hard starts when the car sat a while and the oil drains? starts after 3-4 attempts when it has been sitting and fires right up when the engine just ran
So, is it super bad that i was able to unlock mine simply by turning it? im in the midle of amajor teardown and inspection of my timing system because of a drivability issue, and i remember just one time that mine made the cold start grinding noise many months ago. Perhaps my lock pin is rounded and therefor not locking when its suppposed to. My analysis of it with my eyes and brain suggests that the lock pin is there to stop it rotating until there is oil pressure, so as to stop the cold start rattle and also to stop it form moving out of time while there is no oil pressure to hold it in time. I was undoing the little torx bolts to inspect it, (without the chain) and it just slipped, then i realised i could lock it again by turning it back, thne give it a hit with my palm and i could unlock it. Now im wondering if this is happening randomly causing my stuttering at idle, and maybe even the reason for my lack of power and code p0341, which i thought was a stretched chain.
The intake cam you have shown doesn't seem to have the secondary lobes for the valve lift. So I'm pretty certain that it's a VVT-i cam not a VVTL-i cam.
I found out that they do make a tool to remove the cover plate on the VVT....its called a 5 point torx or 5 point star bit....comes in different sizes like torx. It can also be referred as a 5 point tamper proof bit but those usually have a hole in the end.
suggestion for anyone trying to remove these odd shaped bolt heads. Just spot weld a washer on the head of the bolt. Then weld a nut on the washer. Now, very easy to move with a nut welded on top of the bolt.
You are missing a plastic end at the bottom of the spring. If you watch closer, you don't see spring marks on the back of the metal plate (i opened up and fixed a nissan vvt; i might create a video later with it - what was faulty and how to fix it)
Guess that plunger spring is what gets weak and causes the first start rattle noise. And if you stretch the spring to create more tension the rattle stops.🤔 Interesting.
some newer toyota dual cam v6 engine are interferance. ive seen a t belt water pump changed and the cam rotated to much at tdc with the belt off and when he was done it had a consistant ticking noise(slightly bent valve). 3mz v6
Not an expert but I am guessing: the removable "pin" you are referring to that locks the gears does exactly that - It locks that adjustable rotation in place when the car doesn't want to use it. The spring seems to help the motion of unlocking and locking. Looking for an experts answer.
@@glasser2819I'd start with 5w-20, then mix 5w-20 with 5w-30 to make 5w-25. That's as far as I'd go. You don't want to be running anything heavier than that with modern variable valve timing engines.
Both are right, old MIVEC on 4G69 engine for example is "like" a V-TEC but better, MIVEC on newer 4B11 engine is the same oil controlled VVT-i that Toyota uses but way more better.
the lubricating oil make the cam change it teeth, it will change when the RPM change too.. my brother tell me like that because he works at Toyota factory..
I think the ZR1 related to the engine number of those vehicles. I dunno though, this is all new to me, I'm just hoping to make a purchase on a 2005 corolla tomorrow, so was just looking into its engine, to get some idea of strength / what to expect / servicing etc. Thanks for the upload.
toyota dealer just repaired my 2009 rav4. TSB 0041-13. The spring loaded pin is not dropping in to lock it up at cold start. The rattle stops after oil pressure comes up to full. $625 repair at the dealer.
+AffordBindEquipment Change oil more frequently and use a top quality filter. Use synthetic engine oil, it has more detergent and prevents residue from building up inside the assembly.
+John Ferguson so, you're saying the rattle isn't anything mechanically failing? I've never gotten a straight forward answer. I change the oil every 5-7k with filter, and halfway between changes I change the filter again. I look at 200k on a well maintained Toyota engine as being nothing. I had 298k on a 94 2.4 liter that I ran conventional oil in and it idled for Hours at a saw mill, and it wasn't even using oil or making abnormal noises.
+John Ferguson these engines use a cartridge filter. they suck. I use fully synthetic oil in both of my vehicles. I still change my oil in my V6 RAV4, every 5k. quality oil and frequent oil changes are cheaper than an engine. :-)
first spring and pin is to lock the timing back into retard, the pin will only move out with the correct oil pressure. those yellow plastic are seals to prevent oil escape into other chamber. VVT sprocket are not pulling timing all the time, it's like the Honda V-tec got to do with engine speed and load. Eventually all is controlled by oil pressure. the E-VVT with an electric motor in it is a different story... Great Video!!
You might try synthetic oil if you aren't already using it, it will reach the top of the engine faster upon start-up. Over time, it might also clean out sludge that is slowing down the oil's movement. If higher quality oil doesn't help, then move on to hardware diagnosis via your mechanic.
This is 8 years old comments. Full synthenic oil is working well with VTTI with over 250,000 miles. That is why after 2012, all toyota/lexus vehicles come with required full synthenic. or VTTI will having problem.
I’m looking into locking out my phaser gear in my Nissan and using sn msd box to control timing at top end rather than this mechanical one that can’t hold on to a turbo.
In our 2009 Corolla, this thing makes a loud rattling noise just for a second at startup. Very annoying sound. Toyota dealership claims it's not a problem. I wonder.
Hi, thanks for your video. One question, I have a 2008 Toyota Corolla with 230,000 km with a manual gearbox. The fault is that when turning on it starts with 1300 rpm and as it heats up they go up to 2000, that is, it is the other way around since I understand it should drop to around 900 rpm. and already hot I go out and when I make the gear changes I see that the rpm oscillate between 2000 and 1000 rpm and when I continue the march the minimum is 2000 rpm. If I leave it running stopped the car stays at 2000 rpm. I clarify that with a scanner it does not give an error. Well we removed the carburetor, total cleaning including the MAF sensor of the filter, to clarify, you cannot remove the IAC valve to clean but the carburetion body was submerged in non-abrasive removing liquids and a lot of dirt came out. We measured TPS and IAC with a multimeter, we simulated with power and everything was fine. We checked the pipes that had never been touched and they were impeccable. We put everything together and it starts making the same failure. We took out the VVT valve, it was cleaned with carburetor fluid and wd40, I have original oil in the car, of 5 original toyota viscosity, I excited the solenoid with 12 volts to the vvt-i and it works well, I don't improve at all either. So I disconnected the EGR vacuum valve and there the rpm's dropped a little but after five seconds it accelerates and when connected it returns to 2000 rpm. If I disconnect the MAF sensor, the fault disappears but the engine idles low between 300 and 500 rpm's and the car loses power at 3000 rpm's and the brake is very hard. You can help me?
Nice video. That is the part that is messing up on my 2008 Highlander. For some reason now oil drains out of this area during a cold soak of at least 5 hours. When the car is started you get a rattle at start up. Sounds like crap. Only a $6,000 dollar fix from Toyota.(ha) Been doing this for the last 30,000 miles so it evidently isn't fatal initially.
Ouch, that's a steep quote. I believe these gears were subject to a recall by Toyota but I may be mistaken. It may be worth doing some research to see if your vehicle qualifies.
It was only covered by the 60,000 mile power train warranty. Toyota said they have to pull the engine to get to the VVT and that it is very labor intensive. I'm no mechanic so I don't know if that price is reasonable for the work needed. I just know I ain't paying it..
Dean Cole Through Mitchel which is a labor / hour guide shows it to be 23.6 hrs labor time for the timing assembly in a 3.5 liter engine with AWD, not sure what the hourly rate is there but at $100.00 an hour your looking at 2300.00 for the removal of engine, transmission replacement of the part. A wheel alignment will be required add perhaps 70.00 to 90.00 reasonably. At nearly 2460.00 in labor plus parts at gears running 200.00 a piece its certainly making its way up there but 6000.00 seems a bit off unless they are suggesting other things like head machining, rings / rebuild?
which would also allow you to correctly set the timing chain when reassembling an overhauled engine aswell. would be a P.I.T.A. to do that and then see the chain moving seperately from the cam during installation o.O
the pin locks the vvti incase the oil pressure isn't within spec, which would trigger a check light when the ecu realises the engine isn't doing what its supposed to do under varying circumstances....i'm guessing lol
you could make a cut with a thin cut-off disc and use a flat screwdriver. the housing looks like Powder metal? I think the yellow block is oil seals PS fine vid. (-;
It's a VVT-i and from what i remember the engine acts like a Rev-Limiter, as i cannot go over 5000 rpm the engine prevents, it from doing so. Thanks for the video.
I have a question my car (lexus is 350 ( 2gr-fse engine VVTI) Every morning When startup Engine sound (rattle-noise) A little bit of time Only when the engine is cool Some say (ADJUSTER ASSY, VALVE LASH) Others say VVTI ( CAMSHAFT GEAR ) Is the problem of VVTI ?
I must disagree. MIVEC is most similar to Honda's VTEC where there is a seperate high lift cam lobe which gets activated at a set rpm via hydraulic "pins" that link the cam lobe to the two regular operating rockers. Toyotas VVT-i system on the other hand is constantly altering the timing by use of physically rotating the cam (on newer engines, both cams) across the majority of the rpm band. Very cool technology, but not similar.
I went to Mechanics Some said VVTI Some said oil pump Some said ADJUSTER ASSY, VALVE LASH Some said CHAIN belt My question says Is it possible to hang the VVTI and comes This sound (Noise) ?
That's not what the pin is for, not rattling on start up is just a byproduct of the pin being there. The problem that causes rattling is the springs becoming weak, for starters.
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I have 2007 Corolla with a 1zz-fe 1.8 4 cylinder, I was changing the timing chain and the VVT moved back and forth. I removed it from the cam and it rattled inside. Took it apart and one of the leaves(?) of the rotor had broken completely OFF! That was the rattling sound the engine made when started. Changed the VVT gear and no more noise!
The pin has two functions. To locate the cam during start up and as a safety feature if there's an internal oil seal leak. When this occurs the pin will lock in and the ECU will recognize that the cams aren't adjusting at various engine rpm and load points. On each VVT unit there will be 4 sensor points that are spaced uniquely to allow the ecu to know what degrees the cams are set at.
hey, i have the 2015 camry with 2AR 4cyl. I have code P0015 and P0017 with no rattle at startup but rattle when feathering throttle at other speeds. Also get occassional flash of low oil pressure (not sure if sender problem or really oil pressure prob). do you know if there may be oiling issue or just one of the phazers is failing. Sounds like you may be able to help me diagnose or what to check. thanks
P0017 is a cam crank correlation code. It means your timing is off. P0015 is exhaust cam over retarded. Highly probably a failing vvt but it could be related to failure of related timing components.
My 2007 IS350 was making the same sound from a cold start. Finally after months I just took it in and it was vvti gears worn. My warranty had expired but the dealership still did everything for free since I had brought the problem up to them in the past and they had it recorded in their system. This time they were able to figure out what it was. They replaced all sorts gaskets, cylinder heads, camshafts, and more. Probably would have costed me tons of money but thankfully I got taken care of.
Which gear did they replace? Did you see the old parts?
The pin locks everything in place. When VVT system needs to change timing, oil is diverted to the pin, pushing it open against the spring, and allowing the gears to move. When oil pressure decreases, the gear locks back into place.
The pin is to prevent a rattle noise on startup, since there is no oil pressure.
@@somethingelsehere8089 I have a startup rattle on my 1zzfe coming from this area, do you think this could be related?
@@evanprinkey3050 It could.
@@somethingelsehere8089On the Honda actuators the pin is the cause of the rattle, caused by the spring becoming weak and shortened. I don't think the purpose of the pin is to prevent the rattle, it's job is to locate the timing back to 0 degrees. As oil pressure decreases the spring then acts upon the pin and the pin then locates itself into it's detent. Having no oil pressure there at startup is what allows the pin to stay locked and not rattle.
I remember taking apart a 2jz vvt-i cam sprocket and was a very different design. Just shows how Toyota has come up with a new way to do the same job more efficiently. Granted it is not as aggressive as a V-tec system which has a different cam shaft profile when commanded but this is how Toyota gives you the performance timing when it is commanded by the ecu when a certain rev is matched.
VVT-i is turned on at set points that use throttle angle and engine rpm as input signals. The engine ecu has a map and when the inputs are good it turns on an "oil control valve" that sends oil pressure to the vvt-i gear to turn it on
hey, i have the 2015 camry with 2AR 4cyl. I have code P0015 and P0017 with no rattle at startup but rattle when feathering throttle at other speeds. Also get occassional flash of low oil pressure (not sure if sender problem or really oil pressure prob). do you know if there may be oiling issue or just one of the phazers is failing. Sounds like you may be able to help me diagnose or what to check. thanks
Those orange blocks are seals just as you would have rings in pistons, to seal pressure from leaking, except these are vertical seals and the spring ensures that the seals maintain a tight seal against moving parts.
nothing is sealing oil pressure against the flat front cover 😂
The "Orange Blocks" are oil seals. The mechanism works via engine oil pressure, in a push-push arrangement. The ECU determines the position by varying pulse widths to the variable timing control solenoid. A square wave (equal + and - time intervals) holds current timing. Narrowing or widening the pulse varies the timing. The pin is to lock the timing until oil pressure has been established. Exhaust timing is fixed.
they also use the exact same setting on exhaust camshafts for variable exhaust timing.
Newer designs don't use a side oil solenoid but rather a head mounted PWM push solenoid in the center of VVT Gear.
These timing systems are built to wear out (piston/pin) and pop codes because the ECU has the timing on a close watch.
👍🏻
I bet that is the rattle you hear in the gear on cold start up, that spring has lost tension and is not locking the gear like its suppose to and the gear rattles back and forth on that pin with the weak spring. Honda has the same design, on Honda I stretch that spring if it has cold start rattle and reinstall it then the the cold start rattle goes away, I bet its the same on this cam gear.
The pin is a hydraulic piston that stops the cam from changing timing when theres no oil pressure. Its so that the cars timing is locked at startup and any time that the cam isn't under computer control.
BTW The computer uses the lugs on the camshaft to continuously time the cam using a solenoid on the block.
Is that what causes the characteristic knocking sound on VVT-i engines when you restart the engine while warm after letting it sit for 5 minutes? i.e. when the oil thickens and takes like 10 seconds for it to circulate before it activates again?
That sounds more like chain rattle
Very similar system to Volkswagen.
OK am building a 1AZ noticed that thing is not really holding in place is knocking through out how can I fix that and what kind of damage can occur if I ignore it to move the vehicle to another garage? would this mean am not getting enough pressure.. The oil pump is new. Just remembered I had bought a new cam shaft. Can get this old bit and put on the one on the engine?
@@mushinjikangungu
Good question, I want to knkow as well.
The vct solinoid has one input oil feed and two output, the two output one for retarding timing and one for advancing. As rpms rise the phaser will advance. It keeps the engine in optimal timming. Hence spark firing early btdc
If you're working on this stuff then yeah having a set of bits is definitely a good thing. I find vice grips do the trick nicely haha. Thanks for the feedback!
You need a tp torx plus bit set it looks like. I have some in a neiko torx bit set.
The gear advancing the timing is advancing pretty cool tech
If you start the car there's no oil pressure and that pin prevents the VVT from getting hammered to death. Oil pressure builds up and hold the pin in against the spring until you shut the car off.
that advances a lot more than i thought it would
The tap,ered pin is a check valve that is kept in its hole by the spring on top of it.as the RPM goes up , so the oil pressure, which will unseat the pin , hence the rotor will move to advance the timing based on the conditions. When the engine rpm decreases , so the oil pressure, and the pin goes back to its seat. Thanks
Everything you said is incorrect, no thanks
I think this is the most reasonable explanation.
So, everyone who has another thoughts, please explain it here.
The pin is spring loaded to hold the gear in place once you reach a certain rpm or speed the oil pressure will push the pin up allowing the gear to rotate vtec vvl-i cvt ect are all designed to give a boost in power on the hi end for passing or fun the pin keeps thing from moving till needed to preserve fuel economy
+lilseip-B14 then what causes the rattle on cold start?
T-SB-0041-13
+AffordBindEquipment- the phasers that control the timing inside the cam gear actuator..they are dry and rattle until the oil hits them.
Mine doesn't rattle on a cold start, but it does on a warm engine start and last for like 10 or so seconds.
@@MemphisMojo15s what’s the fix for this? Toyota replaced my cam gear and it’s still there.
@@MemphisMojo15s Except, oil doesn't hit them until a certain RPM/load. And that's not happening at start-ups.
The VVTL-i is even crazier. I love the 2zz-ge, One of the most personified engines I've ever experienced.
the spring loaded pin is to hold the cam at that timing for starting and only disengages after it receives oil pressure
And if it becomes weak and shortens, then the pin will produce the start up rattle.
it adjusts under pressure when it reaches around 5-6000 rpm the pin releases the cam that gives engine a boost up to 9000 RPM its called VTEC
Thanks for the comment Paul. VTEC is a Honda technology, Toyotas version seen here is VVTI.
That has 5 star tamper security screws because it is a critical part of the engine that can mess up the car really good if you put it back wrong without the proper way to do it. There is a reason for that part being protected. i have mine from an engine which head I am rectifying and this engine was run without oil to the point it failed with oil all burnt inside it. I wonder if inside the VVT-i gears there is still oil burnt that would impede its functioning right; it was washed at the machine shop off the oil externally but wondering if inside needs to be cleaned as well; but i am told by many mechanics to leave it alone and not to take it apart as it may mess up the car later on.
I have a Honda with an almost identical actuator in design and operation. I have been inside of mine 5-6 times to dabble with the spring and locking pin in attempts to stop the rattle. As long as that's as far as you go, and you make sure that nothing is forgotten and tighten the bolts to a torque value between 8 and 10 ft/lbs there are no issues.
VVT-I does not have lift like VTEC ,only VVTL-I does..The pin locks the gear in place ,until the VVT-I solenoid allows oil to flow into the gear and then the pin moves and allows the gear to be free to move and change timing and the intake and exhaust valves over lap each other at times to optimize fuel efficiency and lower emissions..
FyI: VTEC uses different cam lobes with larger and longer duration to create lift,VVTL-I uses a pin that is moved by oil to increase duration and create more lift..
Yep, you got it. Thanks for the comment!
very interesting!! so, does that mean that honda is better and more trouble free than toyota engines? cuz right now i am having issues with a 2.5 liter knockin sound at start up??
please help me!!!
Not really memo. Honda is using similar system now. They still have vtec but they also have a vvt for some more low rpm tourqe and better fuel efficiency
Heer Kommando not really Honda’s and Toyota’s everyday bmws suck
Let's say VVT is for intake only and exhaust has a conventional sprocket. VVT sprocket has a range of movement, like you show - up to 4 teeth, exhaust sprocket is fixed. Where does the chain slack to allow for this movement come from, are VVT engine chains inherently loose to allow for this movement? EDIT: I might have figured it out watching T0G5KLN4a_w. The sprocket doesn't move in relation to other sprockets, what moves is the camshaft itself in relation to VVT sprocket, thus no chain slack is needed, duh.
+Karolis Tamutis You got it. My explanation wasn't very concise.
This had me puzzled as well. Thank you for a good, concise explanation.
Good way to look at that thank you
Thanks Steven. I'm glad you enjoyed the video so much.
Its a adjustable cam gear, like some after markets are sold from HKS etc. This concept is old. Check the 5SFE and the 3SFE engines, but these engines, the gear is exposed and the gear is divided in two and it only moving one part of the gear, while the other one depends (exhaust) depends on the other one for advancing or retarding the timing. These, VVT-i, are more efficient with more timing advancing or retarding timing.
You seem to know, on the exhaust actuator the part with spring seems to come out 1/8 or more is this normal?
just for history due there is no tool for loose bolts as you already know :) you "bite" the head of the bolt with the vice and you turn the cam.the bolts r loose easily without drilling.the pin is securing the cam to a certain position under 4000 rpms or when there is no oilpressure (for morning start up or for 2much worn out spoket.there is no use for trying to fix the vvti part,some the plate is worn from the spring and you cannot out it in another hole,the bolts r off centered!great video man
the vvt gear also when pin pops out keep exhuast valve open longer at higher rpm to prevent head gasket from blowing why these motors are bullet proof only way to destroy a toyota is to throw a rod through the piston no oil no collant
The pin is to lock the cam in the place to start the engine when there's no oil pressure.
The mechanism looks very simple and pretty much self explanatory. The pin and the opening for it look good. I wonder why the pin fails to lock? Perhaps the spring breaks or something gets stuck in the pin cavity thus restricting or preventing it's movement.
My wifes 04 Camry (2.4L) has been making this noise for over 100,000 miles. It has 190k on the odometer now. So far it has not caused any issues.
thats the reason for the spring loaded pin it is to control how much adjustment you can get en there is a oil pressure from below that pushes that pin up as you know oil pressure raises with the rews
The pin only locks for cold start. When the engine starts and the O/P comes up it unlocks. It will stay unlocked until you shut the car off. Often the pins get sticky and no longer lock and you get the famous "rattle" until the O/P comes up. I've had 2 Toyotas that have had the rattle for over 150k and it has never been a problem. People just hate the racket at startup , but it really doesn't hurt a thing. My Camry has 220 k and is still going strong rattle and all. Here's a great video about this ruclips.net/video/gwJ5BBHb9W4/видео.html
Allow me to comment your video:
- If both camshafts has a cam gear, than we call it a 'dual VVT-i'. It means it adjust the valve timing of the intake and exhaust valves. 'VVT-i' only adjust valve timing of the intake.
- actually it's the innerside of the cam gear that moves. That innerside (star shape) is fixed to the camshaft. Just saying so nobody misses. It's just because it's clamped between the bench.
Impressive ,genius for this vvti maker👍👍😁
There's oil pressure on other side of the pin that pushes against the spring that depends on oil pressure due to the speed of the engine
Cool, I wonder what kind of metal they use for the seals. Thanks for the comment.
Those bolts have E socket bits handy to have if you work on Toyota a lot
Vvt gear needs to unlocked before taking off cam,( try dissembling the vvt like he did ONLY IF REPLACING WITH NEW ONE then take off cam bolt)if you don't it will grip the guide pin on the back of the gear making it very difficult to take off, do your search very carefully it took me hours of research online on how to approach this. When you install back the vvt gear needs to be unlocked( look at the dots on the housing) and make sure it seats nicely in the right grove, torque to specs and the turn clockwise on the vvt gear housing then you hear a click and to make sure you locked the vvt look at the dots they have to line up together if is not its still unlock. ( Toyotas of this design are prone for 1 second start up rattle and that lock pin is the culprit)
G R i have been reading and watching about “having to be unlocked when assembling”. I am not following why. I have been messing with one this afternoon and can get it to unlock and move but as soon as you let go the spring moves it back to the locked position.
So what is the purpose of having to unlock it prior to assembly if the spring is going to just move it back to the locked position as soon as you let air pressure off?
Thanks for any reply.
So my question is the pin not locking due to weaked spring? If so can stretching or replacing the lock pin spring resolve the issue!
hey thanks for your comment it really helps, i have a 2gr-fe v6 engine i am working on, i change the head gasket and set the timing properly but when i run the engine and scan i got the (crankshaft position correlation bank 1 sensor B) code ( P0017 ), i had to pull the engine again, i turned the crankshaft clockwise 360 over and over again the timing setting was correct, then i turned the Exhaust camshaft with a wrench spanner and noticed it was loose and not locked in place while the others are perfectly locked. kindly bail me out on what to do, should i turning it till i hear the click sound without removing the timing chain? am not sure what to do help me out.
Thanks for the video and many of the good comments made by others. Was wondering what was going on in there. :)
It might as well be black magic in there ;)
The pin keeps the cam and gear locked together when their is no oil pressure like when starting the engine.
can these fail and cause hard starts when the car sat a while and the oil drains? starts after 3-4 attempts when it has been sitting and fires right up when the engine just ran
So, is it super bad that i was able to unlock mine simply by turning it? im in the midle of amajor teardown and inspection of my timing system because of a drivability issue, and i remember just one time that mine made the cold start grinding noise many months ago. Perhaps my lock pin is rounded and therefor not locking when its suppposed to. My analysis of it with my eyes and brain suggests that the lock pin is there to stop it rotating until there is oil pressure, so as to stop the cold start rattle and also to stop it form moving out of time while there is no oil pressure to hold it in time. I was undoing the little torx bolts to inspect it, (without the chain) and it just slipped, then i realised i could lock it again by turning it back, thne give it a hit with my palm and i could unlock it. Now im wondering if this is happening randomly causing my stuttering at idle, and maybe even the reason for my lack of power and code p0341, which i thought was a stretched chain.
Very clear explanation
Yep that’s IPR I have the set and have never used it bought it by mistake thought it was torx
The intake cam you have shown doesn't seem to have the secondary lobes for the valve lift. So I'm pretty certain that it's a VVT-i cam not a VVTL-i cam.
I found out that they do make a tool to remove the cover plate on the VVT....its called a 5 point torx or 5 point star bit....comes in different sizes like torx. It can also be referred as a 5 point tamper proof bit but those usually have a hole in the end.
suggestion for anyone trying to remove these odd shaped bolt heads. Just spot weld a washer on the head of the bolt. Then weld a nut on the washer. Now, very easy to move with a nut welded on top of the bolt.
Alternatively, you can buy the special bits to remove them non-destructively.
@@PatonHaus olease share where to buy rhem in sure lots would appreciate the link...
You are missing a plastic end at the bottom of the spring. If you watch closer, you don't see spring marks on the back of the metal plate (i opened up and fixed a nissan vvt; i might create a video later with it - what was faulty and how to fix it)
感恩了解，謝謝分享！
I work at the factory that machines the housing, rotors and the intake and exhaust sprockets you have there
No way! That’s pretty cool!
Guess that plunger spring is what gets weak and causes the first start rattle noise. And if you stretch the spring to create more tension the rattle stops.🤔 Interesting.
What proof you have of this?
What proof you have of this
@@A_Mechnaical_Design www.researchgate.net/publication/249922054_Overview_of_factors_contributing_to_steel_spring_performance_and_failure
Yes, it is. No - don't stretch it, replace it.
some newer toyota dual cam v6 engine are interferance. ive seen a t belt water pump changed and the cam rotated to much at tdc with the belt off and when he was done it had a consistant ticking noise(slightly bent valve). 3mz v6
Not an expert but I am guessing: the removable "pin" you are referring to that locks the gears does exactly that - It locks that adjustable rotation in place when the car doesn't want to use it. The spring seems to help the motion of unlocking and locking. Looking for an experts answer.
Sounds like oil starvation. Try changing the grade of oil you use to slightly thicker cold viscosity.
yep, indeed thicker to build more pressure in an old loose engine, not thinner !
10w30 or 40
@@glasser2819I'd start with 5w-20, then mix 5w-20 with 5w-30 to make 5w-25. That's as far as I'd go. You don't want to be running anything heavier than that with modern variable valve timing engines.
5 point bits are TORX-PLUS and are readily avail
For sure, I didn’t have those at the time so I had to make do.
Both are right, old MIVEC on 4G69 engine for example is "like" a V-TEC but better, MIVEC on newer 4B11 engine is the same oil controlled VVT-i that Toyota uses but way more better.
Pin is actuated by oil pressure. It keeps the cam in the low rpm position when the engine isn't running
the lubricating oil make the cam change it teeth, it will change when the RPM change too.. my brother tell me like that because he works at Toyota factory..
Exactly, I mispoke. The cam gear itself is always in the same position, the cam itself is rotating.
I think the ZR1 related to the engine number of those vehicles. I dunno though, this is all new to me, I'm just hoping to make a purchase on a 2005 corolla tomorrow, so was just looking into its engine, to get some idea of strength / what to expect / servicing etc. Thanks for the upload.
The Corolla is a magnificent car. They are very well engineered and last a long time. Best of luck!
Have you tried using Full Synthetic Engine Oil?
My Corolla, used to making a rattling noise, till I changed oil, I use Penrite 5-40W FULL SYN.
Christopher Vaz isnt that diesel oil?
toyota dealer just repaired my 2009 rav4. TSB 0041-13. The spring loaded pin is not dropping in to lock it up at cold start. The rattle stops after oil pressure comes up to full. $625 repair at the dealer.
+AffordBindEquipment Change oil more frequently and use a top quality filter. Use synthetic engine oil, it has more detergent and prevents residue from building up inside the assembly.
+John Ferguson that won't make the lock pin go in, though, but your recommendation is spot on
2010V6RAV4 The build up of varnish and sludge is what takes out the VVT almost every time. Keep it clean and it will run 200k miles.
+John Ferguson so, you're saying the rattle isn't anything mechanically failing? I've never gotten a straight forward answer. I change the oil every 5-7k with filter, and halfway between changes I change the filter again. I look at 200k on a well maintained Toyota engine as being nothing. I had 298k on a 94 2.4 liter that I ran conventional oil in and it idled for Hours at a saw mill, and it wasn't even using oil or making abnormal noises.
+John Ferguson these engines use a cartridge filter. they suck. I use fully synthetic oil in both of my vehicles. I still change my oil in my V6 RAV4, every 5k. quality oil and frequent oil changes are cheaper than an engine. :-)
first spring and pin is to lock the timing back into retard, the pin will only move out with the correct oil pressure. those yellow plastic are seals to prevent oil escape into other chamber. VVT sprocket are not pulling timing all the time, it's like the Honda V-tec got to do with engine speed and load. Eventually all is controlled by oil pressure. the E-VVT with an electric motor in it is a different story... Great Video!!
You might try synthetic oil if you aren't already using it, it will reach the top of the engine faster upon start-up. Over time, it might also clean out sludge that is slowing down the oil's movement. If higher quality oil doesn't help, then move on to hardware diagnosis via your mechanic.
This is 8 years old comments. Full synthenic oil is working well with VTTI with over 250,000 miles. That is why after 2012, all toyota/lexus vehicles come with required full synthenic. or VTTI will having problem.
thanks....i have one and trying to determent if has a filter in the system....thanks again...bob
Really good explanation. Thanks for the video
orange plastic= chip seal,springed pin=pinstopper
wait... couldnt you have purchased the 5 star heads to disassemble normally?.. where you crunched on time?
Security torx. Common on many things like microwave covers.
FREAKIN AWSOME MAN ..WORKING ON ONE RIGHT NOW HELPS ME UNDERSTAND ..THANKS
Very informative, and in pretty good Canadian English, with "zed" for "Z" and everything.:) Thanks for posting!
So the sprocket should be rebuildable? I wonder why these fail? The spring wears out?
I’m looking into locking out my phaser gear in my Nissan and using sn msd box to control timing at top end rather than this mechanical one that can’t hold on to a turbo.
In our 2009 Corolla, this thing makes a loud rattling noise just for a second at startup. Very annoying sound. Toyota dealership claims it's not a problem. I wonder.
High oil pressure makes things happen. Best part of more moving part is they break. Good on paper but when it fails. Do you have plastic?
Thanks for your comment!
Vtec is completely different but I think I see your point.
it might be CTA 9292 10mm Toyota/Lexus Head Bolt Wrench
Hi, thanks for your video. One question, I have a 2008 Toyota Corolla with 230,000 km with a manual gearbox. The fault is that when turning on it starts with 1300 rpm and as it heats up they go up to 2000, that is, it is the other way around since I understand it should drop to around 900 rpm. and already hot I go out and when I make the gear changes I see that the rpm oscillate between 2000 and 1000 rpm and when I continue the march the minimum is 2000 rpm. If I leave it running stopped the car stays at 2000 rpm. I clarify that with a scanner it does not give an error. Well we removed the carburetor, total cleaning including the MAF sensor of the filter, to clarify, you cannot remove the IAC valve to clean but the carburetion body was submerged in non-abrasive removing liquids and a lot of dirt came out. We measured TPS and IAC with a multimeter, we simulated with power and everything was fine. We checked the pipes that had never been touched and they were impeccable. We put everything together and it starts making the same failure. We took out the VVT valve, it was cleaned with carburetor fluid and wd40, I have original oil in the car, of 5 original toyota viscosity, I excited the solenoid with 12 volts to the vvt-i and it works well, I don't improve at all either. So I disconnected the EGR vacuum valve and there the rpm's dropped a little but after five seconds it accelerates and when connected it returns to 2000 rpm. If I disconnect the MAF sensor, the fault disappears but the engine idles low between 300 and 500 rpm's and the car loses power at 3000 rpm's and the brake is very hard. You can help me?
It was a radio playing, same thing.
Nice video. That is the part that is messing up on my 2008 Highlander. For some reason now oil drains out of this area during a cold soak of at least 5 hours. When the car is started you get a rattle at start up. Sounds like crap. Only a $6,000 dollar fix from Toyota.(ha) Been doing this for the last 30,000 miles so it evidently isn't fatal initially.
Ouch, that's a steep quote. I believe these gears were subject to a recall by Toyota but I may be mistaken. It may be worth doing some research to see if your vehicle qualifies.
It was only covered by the 60,000 mile power train warranty. Toyota said they have to pull the engine to get to the VVT and that it is very labor intensive. I'm no mechanic so I don't know if that price is reasonable for the work needed. I just know I ain't paying it..
Dean Cole Through Mitchel which is a labor / hour guide shows it to be 23.6 hrs
labor time for the timing assembly in a 3.5 liter engine with AWD, not sure what the hourly rate is there but at $100.00 an hour your looking at 2300.00 for the removal of engine, transmission replacement of the part. A wheel alignment will be required add perhaps 70.00 to 90.00 reasonably. At nearly 2460.00 in labor plus parts at gears running 200.00 a piece its certainly making its way up there but 6000.00 seems a bit off unless they are suggesting other things like head machining, rings / rebuild?
wattch thanks for the information. That was pretty in depth. I really appreciate it.
+PatonHaus Lexus did a recall on their 2gr version.
which would also allow you to correctly set the timing chain when reassembling an overhauled engine aswell. would be a P.I.T.A. to do that and then see the chain moving seperately from the cam during installation o.O
thank you very much for your video. very clear the vvt-I
Pin locks the system when there is not enoug oil pressure. In example on engine startup.
Cheers man, haters gon' hate.
the pin locks the vvti incase the oil pressure isn't within spec, which would trigger a check light when the ecu realises the engine isn't doing what its supposed to do under varying circumstances....i'm guessing lol
you could make a cut with a thin cut-off disc and use a flat screwdriver. the housing looks like Powder metal? I think the yellow block is oil seals PS fine vid. (-;
can you also take apart the exhaust timing gear. I would like to see how it looks inside
,
cezar2200 ,
SAME exact thing inside!
It's a VVT-i and from what i remember the engine acts like a Rev-Limiter, as i cannot go over 5000 rpm the engine prevents, it from doing so. Thanks for the video.
nop, the limiter is done in the ECU
I have a question
my car (lexus is 350 ( 2gr-fse engine VVTI)
Every morning When startup Engine sound (rattle-noise)
A little bit of time Only when the engine is cool
Some say (ADJUSTER ASSY, VALVE LASH)
Others say VVTI ( CAMSHAFT GEAR )
Is the problem of VVTI ?
Problem is cold THIN OIL !
Simply use a THICKER OIL like a 10W30 or 40
I must disagree. MIVEC is most similar to Honda's VTEC where there is a seperate high lift cam lobe which gets activated at a set rpm via hydraulic "pins" that link the cam lobe to the two regular operating rockers. Toyotas VVT-i system on the other hand is constantly altering the timing by use of physically rotating the cam (on newer engines, both cams) across the majority of the rpm band. Very cool technology, but not similar.
what type of camera are you using the video is super clear!?
That radio station your playing sure plays alot of ads
Nikon 50mm is a non-zoom prime lens. My video was shot with a zoom lens.
Thank you for the tips
You bet!
thank you for information
Toyota has literally manufactured millions of these engines...hear about any damaged valves?
Thanks bro for a good video.
👍
Oh yes. Tis marvelous indeed.
I went to Mechanics Some said VVTI
Some said oil pump
Some said ADJUSTER ASSY, VALVE LASH
Some said CHAIN belt
My question says Is it possible to hang the VVTI and comes This sound (Noise) ?
Thats timing advance in modern design like in the distributor advancer
The locking pin is to lock the position so it doesn't rattle on start up... Unfortunately most Toyota's don't after poor oil condition
That's not what the pin is for, not rattling on start up is just a byproduct of the pin being there. The problem that causes rattling is the springs becoming weak, for starters.
dont take it personal, i do like it